1 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Joshua Schiffer. I am so happy to talk to you. 2 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: We have much to celebrate. One you are back in 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: the saddle, so to speak, and two our dynamic just 4 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: a gem. He's just a joy of a producer and 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: editor and friend. Max has become an uncle. Nozzles here, 6 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: I mean salute. There's nothing better. I mean when you 7 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: become an aunt or an uncle. I think the only 8 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: thing second from what I have heard, is being a grandparent, 9 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: because you just get to love them, play with them, 10 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: give them back, bring them stuff they're not supposed to have, 11 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: tell them things ain't supposed to hear, dote on them, 12 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: tell them stories about their parents that they did and 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: always behaved. You know, it's just the best time. 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: I really so. My brother had kids about eleven twelve 15 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: years before I did, and I really was down having 16 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 2: kids when he had it. It was the best feeling 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: because you know, there were just two boys, and the 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: older boy started bringing home babies and they were so amazed, 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: like I'd never really been exposed to babies. It was 20 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: so amazing. And really, my uncle relationship with my nieces 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: and nephew just amazing. 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: Agreed, And let me tell you that little old baby 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: June is a living doll. Baby. She is so beautiful. 24 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: So congratulations mom and dad, but mostly Uncle Max. So listen, now, 25 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: we have had quite a two week period of time 26 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: where I've been traveling, You've been traveling. I've been at 27 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: the airport during the shutdown. 28 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was. My original joke was it's good to 29 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: be seen, because for a minute there it kind of 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: was touching. Goey. I ended up going out to the 31 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: woods because, you know, my midlife crisis is I'm gonna 32 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: turn half redneck. I'm gonna go and embrace my roots. 33 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 2: So I go out in the woods to deer watch, 34 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: which I suck at because I'm very bad at actually 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: the deer part and the hunting. I am awesome at 36 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 2: sitting in the woods with some binoculars and the Internet 37 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: and just chilling out because it's enforced silence, which is amazing. 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: It is amazing, It is amazing. I gotta just jump 39 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: right into one thing. Will you tell everybody what the 40 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: slayer statute is? 41 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 2: Oh? Okay. So it just so happens that the economy 42 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 2: rewards purveyors of salacious and interesting media, such as newspaper articles, movies, 43 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: television shows, mini series, the grand theatrical Hollywood blockbuster. And 44 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: what turns out is that nefarious agents in media will 45 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: go out and talk to the people who have been 46 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 2: convicted of committing some of the worst cases in American history. 47 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 2: And what we had were some big media hits, and 48 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: everybody kind of starts scratching our heads, going, hey, that 49 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: person's in prison for life or on death row. Let's 50 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: not ensure they get a lot of money for doing this, 51 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: because that's a sick, twisted and anti just kind of situation, 52 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: and we get to regulate that. So they regulated it 53 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: with what are called slayer statutes. And I believe virtually 54 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: every jurisdiction I know of has one version or another, 55 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: and it prohibits the committer of certain acts from profiting. 56 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: So it's like the son of Sam law yep. 57 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: And really, Cheryl goes out there on her long dreamed 58 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: of zombie baby eating, slave, trading drug and every horrible 59 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: fraud crime in the universe. She should not be able 60 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: to make seventeen million dollars selling a book. 61 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: That's right. And if somebody says, okay, well, you know, 62 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: this school shooter killed this many people, so the person 63 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: that out does him should not get a movie. 64 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: There is a very good societal justification for regulating certain behaviors, 65 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: such as promoting copycatism, letting people use evil to profit, 66 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: except under circumstances where someone's decided it's really not that 67 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: evil a llah smoking things like that, like it really 68 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: it's this is the kind of law where morals and 69 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: values really get caught up, which is tough if you 70 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 2: think about it, because really, you wake up and you're 71 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 2: just a regular person going through life, and you're not 72 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: exposed to some horrific crime and then immediate thing, why 73 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 2: would you ever think about that? Why would that ever 74 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: be a law where you were like, whoa, we better 75 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: prohibit people from committing crimes in it, but we needed it. Well, 76 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 2: it is in many ways. But one of the things 77 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 2: that I remind people of perpetually is the First Amendment. 78 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: There's a litigation history, and freedom of speech is freedom 79 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: of speech. There's a whole lot of speech that can 80 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: be regulated, and regulating that speech has to follow extraordinarily specific, 81 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: bright line rules. Most of the time they're bright line, 82 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: but there are distinct areas where what you think is 83 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 2: free speech is anything but the big one being commercial speech, 84 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 2: and you are absolutely allowed to regulate commercial speech. And bluntly, 85 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: that's what the Slayer statutes really are an effect of, 86 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: is regulation of that commercial speech. 87 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: How did this play a factor with Coburger, Well. 88 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: You know, Coburger has money of various forms, and right 89 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: now with Coburger, it's how is he spending the money 90 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: that he receives, where is the money coming from, where 91 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: is it going to be? And no one knows exactly 92 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: what his plan is. And he has certain rights to 93 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: confidential discussions. You know, you lose a lot of rights 94 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: when you go to prison for ever and ever and 95 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: ever and ever as he deserves, but you still do 96 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: have the ability to have some kind of conversations. You've 97 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: got the freedom to, you know, do an act in 98 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: certain ways, including sell things and instruct people on the 99 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 2: outside to do lawful things such as discuss selling your story, 100 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: sit for interviews. Now are there's some regulations on it. 101 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: They're not going to just let a TV group waltz 102 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: on into a prison. If you've ever seen one of 103 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: those shows that there's an enormous amount of work that 104 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: goes into getting access to inmates, and some inmates have 105 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: very strict requirements about things you can and cannot talk about. 106 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: But someone like Coburger, if he was of the want, 107 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: could literally start a podcast. He could profit significantly through 108 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 2: some sort of something. Remember where America has three hundred 109 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: and seventy million people. If one percent of people are crazy, 110 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: that's millions of crazy people. 111 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: That's right. And you know, it's like that that murderabilia, No. 112 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: The glorification of glorification, the idea that there are collectors 113 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: of serial killer memorabilia, there's most of me goes that 114 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: is absolutely harmless. It is celebrating pop culture. Josh, do 115 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: not be concerned. And then there's the little partam It's like, no, 116 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: there's a percentage of those people that are on the 117 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: far extreme on their spectrum of whatever, and they're probably 118 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: not collecting this for the good natured historical for the 119 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: culture reasons. There's some wacky pups out there. 120 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: And you know, there's some really twisted people in prison 121 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: that are selling art and different things that these people 122 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: want to be close to them, they want a part 123 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: of them. 124 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: You want to get married, go commit a high profile murder. 125 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, facts, man, I'm. 126 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: A single guy forty nine. I think you know I'm 127 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 2: not Bachelor of the universe. But come on here, I'm 128 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 2: not in prison, and these guys get it hot like hard. 129 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: I have no doubt that Coburger should he want to 130 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 2: marry Mary's. There's someone out there that just has the 131 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 2: fascination and has some belief of love. And really, who 132 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: am I to judge? Every part of creation is deserving 133 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: of love. If I'm going to be a good god, 134 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: believe in person. You believe that love is possible, and 135 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure I will withhold my judgment of him. He will, 136 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: he will be judged. But yeah, going to prison shouldn't 137 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: mean you're never allowed to love. 138 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: That's true. Well, maybe that's another show we should pitch. 139 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: Slayer weddings, prison dating. 140 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 2: Well, you know there's like there's websites and stuff. 141 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Look, I ain't even gonna lie. If there was a 142 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: Slayer wedding where it showed how they met, I would 143 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: watch it. I would call you while I watched it. 144 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: We would discuss it before, during, and after, like a 145 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: football game. 146 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, culture has jumped the sh 147 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: around the time we developed the term jump the shark, 148 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: And really that might have been the market because there's 149 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: stuff happening now where you know, you just stand there 150 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: and you shake it and you're like, really, that's three 151 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy million people. Well, I guess it took 152 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: that many before someone would do that, because that's completely inexplicable. 153 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: But you know, talking about crazy headlines now, I want 154 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: you to weigh in on this. As a high profile 155 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: defense attorney. The headline all I saw was ex porn 156 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: star the head husband so she could be with his son. 157 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's yeah, and it's insane. She's a six foot 158 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: four former adult actress, so man, it's out there under 159 00:10:54,559 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 2: a couple of different names. Apparently has has exited that 160 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 2: that industry and done other things involving getting married to 161 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: this gentleman and having two kids, young kids preteen I 162 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 2: believe daughters, and then as some sort of marriage of convenience, 163 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: potentially she ends up divorcing the husband and marrying or 164 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: getting with his son from a prior relationship who is 165 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: of adult age. So the son was his own step brother, stepfather. 166 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: She's his stepmother wife. 167 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: Yes, there you go, that's much more accurate. She is 168 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 2: his stepmother wife, which just gives me the hebgb's saying it, 169 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: because that that that's that's that's creepy. 170 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: Because he may be of age now, but he wasn't 171 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: always when she knew when. 172 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know you who knows? And I yeah, 173 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 2: you're just getting into some parts of America where I'm like, man, 174 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: never been there. 175 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: But you're talking about a behead and I I know. 176 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: And I'm just like, man, that's totally But we come 177 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: from the Greeks and the Romans and they did some stuff. 178 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: Okay, one way to put that edical stories. 179 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: I remember reading those and be like, any what, huh huh. 180 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: Really all the good stories have been written allegedly, you know, 181 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: there was that room with the monkeys and the typewriters. 182 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, she ends up beheaded and it's like, I'm beheaded. 183 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: There's a Japanese grandmother on the other side. Uh that 184 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: Their katanas involved decapitating someone. Show you've you've you've worked. 185 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 2: But it's not like, oh, look, let's just go decapitates. No, 186 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: it's an effort. 187 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: It is effort. Yeah, and it's gruesome and it's bloody 188 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: and it's horrific. And that's what I'm saying. You know, 189 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: she took a plea deal and then changed her mind. 190 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: Well and that's where it gets so wild. She allegedly 191 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 2: decapitates him, takes the head, drives it home across town, 192 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: and then deposits it in the trash. So, considering all 193 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: of the vast evidence against her, she pled guilty, which 194 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: you know, that's a pretty reasonable thing to do. She 195 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: was offered I think, fifteen years, which is a lot, 196 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: But you decapitated someone. She then withdrew that in his 197 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: on trial right now, and it just it makes you 198 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: shake your head sometime. 199 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: I want to also end on something that I think 200 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: is potentially pretty positive, at least that's the way I 201 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: see it. 202 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: So we're not going to do the Diddy drinking toilet wine. 203 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: Story, Okay, I think we have to. 204 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: Now, we're going to do the story one hundred percent share. 205 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna let you speak from that, Cheryl. Is 206 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: there a history of people incarcerated being real creative with 207 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: the making of libations? 208 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: There is, and they almost always involve a toilet, a 209 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: prison toilet. 210 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 2: How would our innocent viewers create some pruno should they 211 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: want to? 212 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: Well, I mean there's several ways. You know, you're going 213 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: to store your bread and you're going to take an 214 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: orange if you can get your hand on it. You're 215 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: even going to take some packs of ketch Up. When 216 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: you open Ketchup, you know that little clear liquid that 217 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: comes out, that's pure alcohol honey. So you can get 218 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: real creative and you can ferment just about anything. And 219 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: one way to keep it nice and cold and that 220 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: a perfect temperature is in the toilet. 221 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: And really it's the biggest cleanest water tight vessel available 222 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: in most cells. It certainly is, especially when you about 223 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: plastic bag. 224 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: Listen, Thanksgivings coming up. If y'all want to make a 225 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: bag of hooge, I mean, this is the time to 226 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: do it and serve it to your family, let them 227 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: do a taste test. 228 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: My brother for years did psychological work in prisons, and 229 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: I've been to a zillion different facilities, so we would 230 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: talk about the different varieties. And inmates are the most 231 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: creative people in the world. I swear, if we put 232 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: them to work, you're in cancer, it'd be done. They 233 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 2: are the most creative people, endless time, endless creativity. They 234 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: will actually make stuff that I've been told taste not 235 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: that bad by literally taking the fruit, taking your your 236 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: ketchup packets or your sugar packet, wherever you can. 237 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: Get your sugar and they can get their hands on 238 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: skittle y'all. 239 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh you make skittle wine, you make No 240 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: one don't want chocolate. That's not that kind of sugar, 241 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: but any kind of way, think about a fruit sugar 242 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 2: or a refined sugar. You basically just need to feed 243 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: that to some yeast and have a host for it 244 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: that doesn't turn poisonous. And you can lightly ferment just 245 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: about anything, and you can make some real powerful which 246 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: if you put some additional science and time and space 247 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: on it. Where we're not talking about your county jails 248 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: with people moving in and out. We're talking about long 249 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: term storage for inmates where some of these sales ain't 250 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 2: getting checked weekly or monthly because this is you know, 251 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: medium security wherever. And there's you know, one one to 252 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: two guards for two ondred guys. 253 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: And Josh, let's tell them the good news. The wine 254 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: in there is about fourteen percent. Yeah, yeah, So you 255 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: enjoy your little seven to nine percent wine. 256 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: It'll get you there. And really you're that board and 257 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: you want to who's scout that mint that they will 258 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 2: it'll do you. And so Diddy got caught with some 259 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: toilet wine, which I'm telling you I call it right now. 260 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 2: If he serves the time, if he gets clemency, did 261 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: he walks out reborn, remarketed and makes extra money talking 262 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: about the slayer statute makes more money walking out of prison. 263 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: Well, there's a president for it. Martha Stewart made more money. 264 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 2: You know. I have the hots for Martha, totally willing 265 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: to admit that she is universe. She is beautiful and 266 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: brilliant and I find her incredible. But yeah, she took that. 267 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: She ain't an idiot. 268 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 2: She was a stockbroker before she was Martha Stewart Like. 269 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: She's right, that's right, ha ha. 270 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: I'm a homemaker now that Lee is a vicious ninja 271 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: of brilliance. 272 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: And I don't remember the money you made, but it's 273 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: like she went in she was worth ten million, she 274 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: came out she's worth thirty four million. 275 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: Talk about something we should have talked about. Crime wise, Hey, Cheryl, 276 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: here's one hundred million dollars. Why don't you go risk 277 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 2: it for say, five grand and fix a game? 278 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: Right? 279 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: Oh my word, those gambling stories over the last two 280 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 2: weeks are out of control. I am telling you I 281 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: and anytime you've got humanity and money. You're gonna have crookery, 282 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: you just don't. And that's there's people in the world 283 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: that you can have lots of great people and someone's 284 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: going to run. That is apparently what's happened in baseball. 285 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: That is apparently what's been happening in basketball. A bunch 286 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 2: of them high stakes poker games that we're getting completely rigged, 287 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: and a lot of people I know have given up 288 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: the game of poker because it's just so cheatery these days. 289 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: Sports betting I think needs some serious discussion because these 290 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: prop bets, these super small side bets that are very fast, 291 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: that don't have huge market share, so easy to manipulate. 292 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: And that's where we're getting is how's this economy gonna 293 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 2: work out? Because they can track the bets. They're businesses 294 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: that literally track suspicious activity on betting lines. That gets 295 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: over to a whole thing at UFC where if you 296 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 2: really want to get deep, go look up UFC and 297 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: fixing and what's going on with that, because that then 298 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: gets into presidential politics. 299 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: It's the truth. But listen, I think that we should 300 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: end on a positive note and I want to brag 301 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: on somebody and if you had told me twenty years 302 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: ago I would be bragging on this person for this reason. 303 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: I might have thought you were out of your mind. 304 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: But I want to brag on Kim Kardashian. And here's why. 305 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: She's beautiful and she's rich, and she's famous, and she 306 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: could spend every day of her life driving around in 307 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: some fabulous convertible, sitting next to some fabulous swimming pool, 308 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: dressing and going to some fabulous party. But she went 309 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: to law school and then she studied for the bar, 310 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: and she sat for the bar. Now she didn't pass it. 311 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: She took it again, she didn't pass it, and she's 312 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: getting dragged. But let me tell y'all something. I ain't 313 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: spent narry a day in law school, but I have 314 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: heard what one l is all about. I've heard what 315 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: that bar exam can do to you. There are people 316 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: that have PTSD over it today. 317 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: There's a reason that a third of people drop out 318 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 2: because it's a really unenjoyable time. It's not and no 319 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 2: one's like, oh man, no, it's no, it's terrible, Like 320 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: they's terrible, Like no, no, no, it's horrible. We drive 321 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 2: a third out over the here're. 322 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: Really smart people that feel that way, And that's why 323 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: I thinks a. 324 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: Lot of people don't understand even be the smart guy 325 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 2: person in this school or that's law school was the 326 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: time where you're for me, everybody was just as smart 327 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: and accomplished and could get through, and you're like, Okay, 328 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 2: this is serious, this is different. 329 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: This is a very self But she wants to help people. 330 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: She wants to help people that quite possibly could be 331 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: wrongly convicted. I say, keep going, take it again, honey, 332 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: do anything you can do to help people. If that's 333 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: what she is putting herself through, I admire it. 334 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: I love the fact that she has failed and comes 335 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: back on something that she has personal meaning to. She 336 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: has used her celebrity in a few different occasions on 337 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 2: some public justice issues that I think are really important. 338 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: And she comes from the Jitimately, the Kardashian name was 339 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: originally a famous lawyer. You know, her father was on 340 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: the OJAT. People don't remember that, that's. 341 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: Right, Robert Kardashian. 342 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: Honey. So it's not like she's just some person. Oh, 343 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna know, she's put a lot of thought 344 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 2: and effort. The bar in California is about the hardest 345 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: bar in the nation. It is three days long. It 346 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: doesn't have reciprocity, but it sucks. It's its own thing. 347 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 2: You'll see a similar bar in say Florida. They're very protective. 348 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: South Carolina is very protective, but California has a hard bar. 349 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: And I give her a lot of props in kudos 350 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: for the bravery of standing up and failing publicly in 351 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: an intellectual endeavor and then going back and trying again, 352 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 2: because that's the perseverance that really is character. 353 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: I think it says a lot about her because I'm 354 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: gonna tell you, we got a powerball in Georgia. 355 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: What is it? 356 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: Three hundred million? If that thing hits the McCollum, I 357 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: will not be going to law school, hear me. 358 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: Now, The joke with my partner and I is one 359 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: day is going to just show up and the name's 360 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: going to be scratched off the wall. And that's what 361 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: it's got. And it's what happened to Deka. And the 362 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 2: question is is it Doug or is it me that 363 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 2: gets to the doorscraper first because the other one gets 364 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: And then on a high note and celebrating people, I 365 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: saw that beautiful ring that you were wearing. 366 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, about. 367 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: That honor that I didn't know about in. 368 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: Advance, y'all. So in twenty twenty three, I was inducted 369 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: into the National Law Enforcement Officer Hall of Fame, and 370 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: our rings just came in. So while I was in Ohio, 371 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: they officially, you know, gave me my ring. 372 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 3: So to youle Style, it's so cool, and you're such 373 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 3: a good representative for the positivity that law enforcement needs 374 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 3: and deserves because we spend so much time yelling about 375 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 3: the worst, but law enforcement. 376 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: Who do you call just just who do you call? 377 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: The most grizzled anti state? Defense attorneys love cops? Why 378 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: to know what? We know? How valuable law enforcement is. 379 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 2: And you won't find bigger defenders of law enforcement when 380 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 2: it comes to lawyers in general than criminal criminal lawyers 381 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 2: because we've all seen the good they do. And we 382 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 2: may complain, right, yeah really, And it's it's team America. 383 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: It's team We've got to have the best society we can. 384 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: It will never be perfect, but the idea is you 385 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: keep fighting, and sometimes you're going to fight this way, 386 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: then you're going to grow up, no new chapter. You're 387 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 2: gonna fight for a better America that way. Then you're 388 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: going to grow up new chapter. Then you're gonna fight 389 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: for better America that way, and what your America is 390 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: it changes over time. Better America at nineteen different from thirty, 391 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: way different than fifty one hundred percent. 392 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: But I appreciate you mentioned it, and I tell you 393 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: it was a great honor in twenty twenty three, but 394 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: that rings pretty slick. 395 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 2: So it's awesome, and you are so well deserved. 396 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you, sugar, But again, I ain't done 397 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: none of it by myself. I've had all the love 398 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: and support and kindness and good luck frankly that anybody 399 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: could have. And I don't in any way not try 400 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: to put a spotlight on it. And I tell rookies 401 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: all the time, you need to work hard, you need 402 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: to prepare, you need to train, but don't you look 403 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: that gift horse in the mouth. That luck can catapult 404 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: your career. And you know, I was just in an 405 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: elevator during a major trial. It was a homicide trial, 406 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: and I walked in. The doors open, and I walked 407 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: into the elevator and there were two old guards that 408 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,239 Speaker 1: I recognized immediately, both defense attorneys. I hadn't seen him 409 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: in years and years. There was a rookie on there. 410 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: He could not have been more than twenty four or 411 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: twenty five. He stayed just face down in his phone, 412 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, there's one hundred years experience 413 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: on this elevator. Talk to somebody, Introduce yourself to somebody, 414 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: tell them where you're going. Are you testifying? Do you 415 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: need some support, do you need a pat on the back? 416 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,239 Speaker 1: Do you need advice? And you know, we went up 417 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: floors and had the doors open, and he just walked off, 418 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, buddy, you just missed such 419 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity. And you know, that's just what I try 420 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: to tell people. Talk to lunch, go hang out at 421 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: the bar, do something. 422 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 2: The lack of personal interaction is one of those developments 423 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 2: that I've talked to you about that that's scarce. I 424 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 2: know it. 425 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: He never even looked up. 426 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 2: And listen, I remember the eighties like it wasn't that 427 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: long ago. And then you think about, man, the eighties 428 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 2: were forty years. What's forty years from twenty sixty five? 429 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 2: It then time moves. Time moves fast. People. 430 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: Cheryl, I love you, I love it, I love you, 431 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: and I'm thrilled to talk to you. And I cannot wait. 432 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: We're gonna get together soon because y'all, yeah, we got 433 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: some plans to make, y'all, y'all will be in on 434 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: it when it's time. 435 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: Big twenty twenty six. 436 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna let you send us out. 437 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 2: I'm gonna send today by just asking everybody to go 438 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 2: out there and love some body actively, like, be proactive 439 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: with love, even if that person is you, because everybody 440 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 2: deserves love and affection and care. Because you're an important 441 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: part of this universe, whether you're big or small, whether 442 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 2: you think you are important or not, I promise you 443 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: you matter more to people than you would ever imagine. 444 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: And bless every day and enjoy that journey. If you're 445 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: stuck somewhere, make the best about being stuck somewhere. 446 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: That was perfect. 447 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 2: Boom boom,