WEBVTT - On the Eve Of... 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:05.040 The number one true crime podcast is back. The bodies 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.240 of eight family members were discovered in Pike County, Ohio. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.480 Season four of The Pikes And Massacre the trials begin, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.120 So let's talk about the crime scenes. Accused murderer George 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.600 Wagner faces a judge and jury. This is legitimately the 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.479 biggest murder trial in the state of Ohio's history. They're 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.200 going to be some surprised at this trial. His mother 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.800 and youngest brother are said to testify against him. It 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.840 is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.000 he face the death penalty they killed the mother of 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.680 the girl they were trying to get custody up. Or 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.720 will he walk free? I think the defense knows something 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.839 that we don't know. We're there tracking the case in 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.720 real time. I don't think I've ever seen photo zach 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.080 graphic before. Join the nearly thirty million listeners as the 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.320 mystery unfolds. When a jury sees a human bodies and 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:08.679 ripped shreds, they want their pound flesh. This is the 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:14.240 Pipdon Massacre. Trials begin season four, episode one on the 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.360 eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KAT 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.360 Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. After following this 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.080 case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's largest 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.200 criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more than 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:33.520 six years since the events of April twenty first, twenty sixteen, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.160 when eight family members were shot dead in the middle 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.520 of the night, some were sleeping and others. Based on 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:48.120 crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable. It's important 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.000 to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial, 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.960 and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.720 pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutors say the Wagner 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.000 family planned the killing for months. I don't know that 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.240 people can fully fathom what went on in those mobile homes, 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.720 But when the full force of that hits the most 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:12.920 important people in the room, which are going to be 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.799 those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and a half 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.919 years later, four members of a prominent local family who 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.880 knew the victims very well, were arrested and charged with 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:31.080 capital murder. This was planned and plotted four different homes 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:35.920 where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered, and for 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:41.120 this family, God and when this happened. Think about this 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:45.800 shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole family and 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:53.560 why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner, her husband Billy, 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.320 and their two sons in their early twenties, Jake and 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.840 George were the arrested parties. Since then, Anchela Wagner and 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.919 her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements in exchange 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.160 for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've spent years 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.080 chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of what happened 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.000 that night. Since we've been following the Pikes and Masker 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.880 for so many years, Stephanie and I decided the only 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.160 way to make sure we got the whole story was 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.239 to get in that quart room for the trial. Here's 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:29.720 Stephanie as this trial finally approaches, there are a lot 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.200 of questions that we still don't have answers to and 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.160 are desperate to know more about. It was noted in 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.080 one of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.320 who is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.240 spree very last minute that fateful night, and we don't 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.560 understand why. It says in the motion that he was 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.600 only going to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.200 his father. What does that even mean. I also want 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.920 to know if he accused mother, Angela Wager, was actually 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.520 at four murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:09.320 that she was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.160 She also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.480 she was at the location before or after the murders. 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.440 It's yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:21.839 This is actually going to be think about it for 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.840 the very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:30.320 and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.480 They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're gonna 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.359 lock eyes, and that's going to seal his fate. We 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.039 desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom where 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.200 the Wagner's fate will be decided is in the Pike 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:46.080 County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal style 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.479 building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty miles 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.080 northeast of where the murders took place. It looks exactly 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.800 like you would imagine a medium sized Midwest county courthouse 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:03.240 to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been involved 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:07.640 in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work for years, 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.039 and I've never seen anything like it. Like every other 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.040 step in this case, from the crime scene itself, through 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.440 the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word everyone 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:23.479 uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true even 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.440 leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising, 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.040 but it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially, 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.160 opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.279 the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:41.520 Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.520 the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.839 local media was getting set up to cover the trial. 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.640 Tell me, so you're in Pike County right now or 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.640 where are you? I'm actually in the first floor of 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:58.200 the courtroom the courthouse, sitting right below the courtroom in 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.240 the media room. I'm going to be spending a lot 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.880 of time here over the next four weeks, five weeks, 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.039 six weeks, and so what's the feeling like in the 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.560 courthouse and around the courthouse. Well, today it was a 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.760 lot of hustle and bustled with that. There were a 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.520 couple other TV stations. We're here dropping off their equipment. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.080 We're installing all of our stuff, getting everything set up. 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.159 Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is ready for a 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:25.080 trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've actually installed higher 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.760 speed internet, They've installed free Wi Fi for us here 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:30.760 in the media room. I think there are some you know, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.920 there's some businesses that are actually looking forward to it 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.719 because there's gonna be so many people in from out 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:40.320 of town as part of this. Over the past year, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.480 we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution strategy based on arguments 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.000 made by lead attorney Angie Kneppa during pre trial motions. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.080 It seems like they will attempt to paint a picture 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.440 of a tight knit family where everyone was in on 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.520 the plot. The defense's main argument is that the family 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.400 isn't on trial here, George Wagner is, and that he 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:08.920 didn't actually kill anyone that night. How does defense get 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:13.920 out from underneath the legal standard of aggravated murder, which 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:16.920 states in Ohio you don't have to pull the trigger 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.400 to be convicted of murder if you help plan it, 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.040 and if you help cover it up, and if you 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.760 helped execute it. So that's going to be the very 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.320 big challenge, and I'm very interested to see what the 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.720 defense says. The wild card is what Jake and Angela 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.080 may say while on the stand. They have not seen 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.320 each other since being arrested in twenty eighteen. How common 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.200 is that for family to testify against family in a 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:45.000 case like this. It is extremely, extremely rare for family 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:49.760 to testify against family. Mike Allen is a legal analyst 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.680 who's worked on the defense and prosecution sides, and is 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.760 also a former judge. Maybe I've seen it two or 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:58.680 three times in all the years I've been doing it, 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.679 and never, never, on a case of this, magnan dude. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:07.240 It's like two family members against two other family members, 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:12.440 and this is a family that is reportedly extremely close. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.520 That's going to be something to see because it just 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:20.280 doesn't happen very often. We can assume that what Jake 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.080 and Angela say about George is not going to be favorable. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.240 They're not going to say that he didn't do anything 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.600 wrong right, quite the opposite exactly. I mean, yeah, the 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.560 prosecutor is not going to put them up on the 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.440 stand for them to testify. How wonderful you know, George 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.920 is ain't gonna happen. They're not gonna be able to 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.280 play around up there and play footsie with the prosecutor. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.880 I mean, they have to testify, truthfully. Can you talk 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.760 to us about what the possible end results are for George? 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:52.120 Could he walk? Are there lesser charges or is it 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.680 guilty on all? What are the options? Here are the 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.440 options for George? I mean, obviously one of the options 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.160 is a far him not guilty to the aggravated murder. 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:06.120 But even if that were to happen, he's still stuck 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.120 with four counts of aggravated burglary, three counts of tampering 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:14.320 with evidence, two counts of unlawful possession of dangerous ordinance, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.720 single counts of conspiracy, forgery, unauthorized use of a computer 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:24.760 or telecommunications wire. So even if he's not convicted of 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.280 the homicides, there is a lot here that can put 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.960 him away for a lot of years. Could all of 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:36.079 those together equal a life sentence or is that totally unknowable? Oh? No, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:42.080 it could he easily equal life sentence. Meanwhile, jury selection, 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.120 which began on August eighth, is underway. The first hurdle 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.920 is finding an impartial jury in a small town for 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:53.360 the largest case in the history of Ohio. Here's retired 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:58.480 prosecutor and Flanagan. You have to usually wait until you 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.000 start to see the jury and see if you can't 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.760 come up with a number of people who indicate they 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.559 can be fair and impartial. But it doesn't really matter 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.280 if they've had some information come through its will they 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.720 listen to the evidence and the rulings and the matters 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.160 that have been brought to them in the courtroom, set 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.360 aside anything else they might have heard, and then make 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.960 the decision fairly and honestly for both sides. I always 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.040 talk to a jury and say, you know, at the 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:27.920 end of the day, you want to go home, and 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.960 you want to be safe in your own heart and 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.959 mind that you have only done what you've been asked 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:35.720 to do because you want to go home and be 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:42.400 able to sleep tonight. To find a jury, Pike County 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.040 sent about a thousand questionnaires to locals asking for volunteers. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.320 Two hundred people responded, and the court is in the 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:54.600 process of whittling them down. Seventy perspective death qualified jurors 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.439 reported to the Pike County Courthouse. This is where final 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.480 jury selection is beginning. Death qualified means it's already been 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.400 determined that these jurors are willing to implement the death 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:10.120 penalty if it's warranted. Local crime reporter Anjeanette Levy has 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.280 been our Eyes and Ears on the ground in Ohio 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.239 for several seasons of the podcast. I spoke with Anjeanette 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.680 about what it's been like. During the week preceding the trial, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.160 seventy death qualified jurors showed up at the Pike County Courthouse. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.199 Fifty one of them were women and nineteen of them 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:35.120 were men, And so George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.480 filed a motion saying, this whole panel, the whole veneer 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.760 should be stricken because it's too many women, and there 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.920 were working class jurors who were excluded for financial hardship 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.319 and they shouldn't have been. So that's discriminatory, and so 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.440 they thought, you know, we should start over with the 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.719 whole thing. Well, the judge said, no, I don't think so, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.800 and denied the motion. So jury selection continued and we 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:01.960 were all wondering whether or not they'd be able to 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.960 really seat this jury, and they were able to do it. 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.760 So the jury consists of nine women and three men, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.080 and then the panel of six alternates, and that's five 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:16.679 women and one man. So you have majority women who 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:21.240 will be hearing this case. Wow, with having so many women, 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.640 that's unusual, right, you know, I don't know if it's unusual. 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.080 I think we've seen trials like this in the past 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.920 where it's waited one way or the other. I covered 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.280 the Johnny Depp trial in Virginia. Different trial, obviously a 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.319 civil case, a defamation case, but the majority of the 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.960 jurors were men on the panel. Sometimes that's just how 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.880 it shakes out. We're going to take a break. We'll 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:56.400 be back in a moment with the jury chosen. In 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.640 less than a week before the trial is said to begin, 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.480 Presiding Judge Daring drops a bombshell on the media. Late today, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.040 Judge Randy Deering issued his final rules on what can 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.800 and can't be shown on camera or online. Judge Dearring 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.360 is going to allow each witness to opt out of 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.680 being photographed or recorded that includes any audio of their testimony. 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.840 So if they choose witnesses can only be seen or 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.520 heard by people inside the courtroom. The judge will also 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.840 extend that right to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.400 his mother Angela when they testify for the prosecution. When 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.800 the witness comes to the stand, he's going to say, yeah, 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.000 the right not to be shown on television, and then 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.640 we have to turn the camera off, and he's going 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.920 to do that. Furbu single witness. Why you know, it's 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.600 going to be very difficult if they all say no, 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.920 and we still haven't gotten any clarification and whether or 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.360 not we can at least play the audio of their voice. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:51.040 We're still kind of up in the air and when 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:52.959 this whole thing is going to start, how we can 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.040 cover it all of that. Here's reporter and Jeanette Levy 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.520 speaking with producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.200 witnesses can opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.160 So we had to file something, so we're probably going 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.640 to have it hearing next week. If they deny this 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.280 motion that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.560 option to turn down being recorded. Correct, they have the 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.160 option anyway? What We're more concerned about is Jake and 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.680 Angela being on camera. We don't want them to be 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.520 able to opt out, and any other witnesses who want 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.040 don't want to be photographed. We want the right to 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.320 record at least their audio. You know, there may be 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.920 lay witnesses who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:38.800 but we want to at least be able to hear 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.800 what they're saying. We all pitched in, like all four 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.920 Cincinnati TV stations to Cincinnati Inquire, lawng Crime, and Court TV. 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.360 We all are represented by the same lawyer, Is it yeah? 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.120 Jack Rener. Media lawyer Jack Griner represented Local twelve and 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.080 several other outlets in the effort to get better access 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.240 to the trial. On his website, Grinder calls himself a 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.200 reporter's lawyer and is a well known champion for First 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.920 Amendment rights. We've spoken about him before. He's the same 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.360 attorney who sued for access to the autopsies in this case. 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.720 We had hoped that we get a ruling that would 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:22.720 really go towards maximizing the public stability to participate in 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.240 this trial, at least in the sense of observing it. 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.160 People can come to the courtroom, but for many people 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:33.440 that's not possible. With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.760 two counts, there's going to be a lot of evidence 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.680 to go through point by point. Also, since there has 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.360 been so much that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.080 this will also be our first opportunity to see the 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.840 crime scene photos to find out exactly what occurred that night. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.760 Here's Stephanie. Those are going to tell a very specific story. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.960 I just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner in 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.480 person and see how his demeanor is. I mean, think 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.280 about it. It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner, 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.440 and Jake Wagner all attended the funerals of people who 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.200 they murdered. I mean, can you imagine the level of 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.640 composure that must take and what kind of psychopaths actually 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.600 attend the funeral and pretend to be mourning the people 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.400 they actually murdered. This will also be the time when 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.240 we find out if, indeed these eight murders the sole 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.280 motive behind them was for custody of the daughter, who 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.800 was shared between confirmed murderer Jake Wagner and the victim 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.640 Hannah May Rodin or were many other things at play, 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:45.000 and more importantly, God willing the Rodens, the Gillies, and 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:52.320 the Manly family that they'll finally get some justice as 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:59.200 the child gets closer. There is another surprising development. The 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.320 jury boarded a school bus and then they were taken 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.359 to some of the remote locations where the crime scenes 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:14.040 actually happened. In both Piketon and Reardon, Ohio. Jurors visited 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.480 all four crime scenes, looking closely at run down buildings 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.760 now partially covered in overgrowth and the vacant ground where 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.679 the road and mobile homes once sat. But a reminder 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.600 that the jury view was not to be considered as 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.159 evidence for the jurors. Rather, it's to give them a 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.879 better understanding of the arguments here and really kind of 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.040 give them a lay of the land, if you will. 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.600 And Neette Levy and the rest of the media are 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.000 allowed to follow the school bus full of jurors and 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.760 via the proceedings from a distance. Chris Graves and I 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.280 spoke with her about this. We followed along as the 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.720 school bus in the motorcade went around and we went 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.760 to all these sites from nine thirty in the morning, 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.800 till about seven at night. We also went to places 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.640 points of interest and drove around a lot of roads 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.840 where you know, they determined it was like the routes 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.720 they said that the Wagner strove that night. Did they 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.640 show them in the order that they thought they had 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.760 been killed? We believe. So it started out at Chris's house, 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.040 Chris Senior. Then they walked a path down to Frankie 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.840 Roden's house that he shared with Hannah Gilly, and then 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.360 they went down to Dana Roden's home but didn't stop. 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.520 So it was very interesting. It makes you think, did 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.440 they start at Chris Senior's, then they went down to Frankie's, 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.440 they turn around, they see that, you know, whatever's going 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.119 on at Dana's house. Maybe they didn't stop. Maybe they 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.320 went down to candets and came back. We don't know 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.120 that for certain, but it's certainly a possibility because there 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.359 was a discussion that Dana had worked at double shift 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:52.879 that night and worked later than anticipated. Oh my god, 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.080 is the implication potentially with what you just said, that 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.840 they knew she was working a double shift and therefore 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:02.200 didn't want to go nor as she wouldn't be there. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.200 That was the conclusion we were drawing. That doesn't mean 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.200 we were right, but it seemed strange that they would 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.520 drive down to Dana's and not get out when you're 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:16.240 on the same road. Why why do that? I don't 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:22.280 recall a case where the jurors and this includes the 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.480 people the twelve and paneled and then the alternates are 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:30.919 loaded up in a school bus and driven out to 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.480 these locations where these events took place. Here's forensic death 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.040 investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. You think about, you know, as 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.880 the crew is moving down the road and they've essentially 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.879 wiped out one portion of the family, are they talking about, 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.880 you know, what they're going to do next on Unihale Road? 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.600 And that kind of puts it in perspective at that moment, Tom, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:57.040 does the jury have a sense of that was the 0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:01.680 prosecutor or the detectives board that school bus is kind 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.919 of acting like a tour guide, if you will, and 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.360 telling them it was at this point that they picked 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:08.680 up the car. It was they we believe that they 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.040 traveled in this direction and you're getting an idea of 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.199 this pace and you you contemplate for a moment what 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.040 these folks in the vehicle or we're talking about doing 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.840 and what they did, And I think that that's that's 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.880 certainly a note that the prosecutors want to drop into 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.720 the ears of the jury members all of these sorts 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.719 of little details like that, which can I think you know, 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.399 after this trial, these trials are said done. This is 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:40.000 something that will be studied for years to come. This 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.119 Pike County Sheriff Impound lot is a key stop on 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.160 the jury view. Remember, the rodents were found dead inside 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.320 their mobile homes and camper and this lot is where 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.240 those vehicles were hauled and are still being helped today. 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.800 They took them to the impound lot at the Sheriff's office, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.000 where the trailers are now stored and where the pickup 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.639 truck that we believed said they purchased to commit the 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.480 murders is stored. They were taken to ten locations over 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:08.800 two days. To our knowledge, they were not taken into 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:13.080 the actual trailers. We were not permitted to go into 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.800 the actual structure where those trailers are housed. So we 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.920 should have been allowed in there. It's public property, and 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.359 according to the precedent, even if it was private property, 0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:24.919 we should be allowed to go on it. But they 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.040 kept us out. Stephanie and I have been too piked 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.119 in numerous times over the past few years, but this 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.560 time the stakes felled higher. The last time you and 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.240 I were here, it was snowing and raining and dark 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.840 and dreary and so cold, And now it's sunny and bright, 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:46.439 and it definitely has a different feeling. We had to 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.320 the courthouse to meet up with reporter James Pilcher to 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.840 find out the latest about media access. The most surprising 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.840 thing about this whole enterprise is how quickly the judge 0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.439 turned from being media friendly to all of a sudden, 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.880 the most restrictive trial however, any of us have ever 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:05.720 had to deal with. Ever. Why do you think we 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:08.280 don't know why? We've asked, why, we've asked for a 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:16.120 meeting with the judge, we've gotten no answer. Technically, if 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.359 you're a city official, you work for the city. So 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.000 if the city is you know, air quote, standing sitting 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:26.720 jury and watching and wanting to see how taxpayer dollars 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.399 are getting spent for me, it's more of a transparency 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:33.800 public record. This is the most complex, most important murder 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:36.359 trial in the history of the state, and yet nobody 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:38.119 can watch it. I don't know unless we want to 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.280 push it to another appeals court or the Supreme Court. 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.359 There's nothing we can do. Like I kind of get 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.520 it for retribution purposes if you're somebody who's speaking out 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.080 against the accused wagoners and you're fearing that someone's going 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.680 to come put a hit on you. On Friday, they 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:56.280 started erecting a fence around the parking lot of the 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.480 courthouse and the entire courthouse, a chain link fence. We 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:03.720 had ever seen that before. This is an old, old courthouse, 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.240 and George Wagner has to be brought into the courthouse 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.200 from the outside. There isn't an underground tunnel or any 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:18.399 other type of entrance, so they've erected defense. Is that 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.479 concern for his safety? I would assume it's a safety issue. 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:24.920 They don't want people just kind of walking through there 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.120 that shouldn't be in there. That's my interpretation of why 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.320 they did that. Hopefully we can get cameras in there, 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.199 that's really the goal. Yeah, right now, I don't know. 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:36.960 Man kind of looks a little bit shaky. What do 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.840 you think the feeling is for the prosecution, for the 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:42.919 defense for everyone in Pike County right now? You know, 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.200 any time before trial, you get butterflies, no matter how 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:49.400 many of them that you've done before, you get butterflies. 0:23:52.800 --> 0:24:03.399 Let's stop here for another break. On the morning of 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:05.679 the first day of trial, the media is alerted to 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:10.560 another development. Opening statements were expected and slated for today, 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.480 but there has been a delay. We were supposed to 0:24:13.520 --> 0:24:16.080 be an opening statements right now that we got word 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:20.320 that somebody involved with the trial has become ill and 0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:25.320