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Speaker 1: The number one true crime podcast is back. The bodies

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Speaker 1: of eight family members were discovered in Pike County, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Season four of The Pikeson Massacre the trials begin, So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the crime scenes. Accused murderer George Wagner

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Speaker 1: faces a judge and jury. This is legitimately the biggest

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Speaker 1: murder trial in the state of Ohio's history. They are

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Speaker 1: going to be some surprise since this trial his mother

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Speaker 1: and youngest brother are said to testify against him. It

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Speaker 1: is extremely rare for family to testify against family. Will

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Speaker 1: he face the death penalty they killed the mother of

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Speaker 1: the girl they were trying to get custody of, or

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Speaker 1: will he walk free? I think the defense knows something

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Speaker 1: that we don't know. We're they're tracking the case in

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Speaker 1: real time. I don't think I've ever seen photos that

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Speaker 1: graphic before. Join the nearly thirty million listeners as the

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Speaker 1: mystery unfolds when a jur sees the human bodies and

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Speaker 1: ripped shreads once they are pound flesh. This is the

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Speaker 1: Piked Massacre Trials begin season four, episode one on the

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Speaker 1: eve of I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Kat's

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Speaker 1: Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. After following this

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Speaker 1: case for years, trials are officially beginning in Ohio's largest

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Speaker 1: criminal investigation in the state's history. It's been more than

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Speaker 1: six years since the events of April twenty first, twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when eight family members were shot dead in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night, some were sleeping and others. Based on

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Speaker 1: crime scene evidence, their final moments are unimaginable. It's important

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Speaker 1: to note that George Wagner, the fourth currently on trial,

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Speaker 1: and his father, Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, have

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Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty to all charges. Prosecutor say the Wagner

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Speaker 1: fan planned the killing for months. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: people can fully fathom what went on in those mobile homes.

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Speaker 1: But when the full force of that hits the most

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Speaker 1: important people in the room, which are going to be

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Speaker 1: those jurors, it's going to reverberate. Two and a half

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Speaker 1: years later, four members of a prominent local family who

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Speaker 1: knew the victims very well, were arrested in charge with

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Speaker 1: capital murder. This was planned and plotted four different homes

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Speaker 1: where these family members were slaughtered, absolutely slaughtered, and for

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Speaker 1: this family, God and when this happened. Think about this

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Speaker 1: shock and confusion. Who takes out a whole family and

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Speaker 1: why would you do that? Matriarch Angela Wagner, her husband Billy,

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Speaker 1: and their two sons in their early twenties, Jake and

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Speaker 1: George were the arrested parties. Since then, Angela Wagner and

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Speaker 1: her youngest son Jake have taken plea agreements in exchange

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Speaker 1: for testifying against George and Billy Wagner. We've spent years

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Speaker 1: chasing clues trying to unpack the mystery of what happened

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Speaker 1: that night. Since we've been following the Piked and Masacer

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Speaker 1: for so many years, Stephanie and I decided the only

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Speaker 1: way to make sure we got the whole story was

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Speaker 1: to get in that courtroom for the trial. Here's Stephanie

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Speaker 1: as this trial finally approaches, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions that we still don't have answers to and are

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Speaker 1: desperate to know more about. It was noted in one

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Speaker 1: of the motions that accused older brother George Wagner, who

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Speaker 1: is the one standing trial, only joined the murdering spree

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Speaker 1: very last minute that fateful night, and we don't understand why.

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Speaker 1: It says in the motion that he was only going

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Speaker 1: to protect his younger brother, Jake Wagner, from his father.

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Speaker 1: What does that even mean. I also want to know

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Speaker 1: if he accused mother, Angela wags was actually at four

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Speaker 1: murder locations. In her plea deal, she claims that she

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Speaker 1: was quote home babysitting, but previous reports say otherwise. She

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Speaker 1: also has a burglary charge, which would say perhaps she

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Speaker 1: was at the location before or after the murders. It's

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Speaker 1: yet unclear. And what a showdown in the courtroom. This

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Speaker 1: is actually going to be think about it for the

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Speaker 1: very first time in years. Angela Wagner, the accused mother,

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Speaker 1: and the youngest brother, Jake Wagner, are going to face off.

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Speaker 1: They're going to see George in the courtroom. They're going

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Speaker 1: to lock eyes, and that's going to steal his fate.

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Speaker 1: We desperately want to be there for that. The courtroom

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Speaker 1: where the Wagner's fate will be decided is in the

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Speaker 1: Pike County Courthouse. It's a three story red brick federal

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Speaker 1: style building in the middle of Waverley, Ohio, about twenty

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Speaker 1: miles northeast of where the murders took place. It looks

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Speaker 1: exactly like you would imagine a medium sized Midwest County

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Speaker 1: courthouse to look. The anticipation is extremely high. I've been

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Speaker 1: involved in this in this area Southwest Ohio trial work

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Speaker 1: for years, and I've never seen anything like it. Like

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Speaker 1: every other step in this case, from the crime scene itself,

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Speaker 1: through the investigation and shot and guilty verdicts, the word

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Speaker 1: everyone uses is unprecedented. The fact that it's holding true

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Speaker 1: even leading up to the actual trial maybe shouldn't feel surprising,

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Speaker 1: but it has been a pretty bumpy, unexpected start. Initially,

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Speaker 1: opening statements were slated to begin on Tuesday, September sixth,

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Speaker 1: the day after Labor Day. We booked a trip to

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Speaker 1: Pike County, only to have to cancel it due to

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Speaker 1: the delays. Jeff spoke with reporter James Pilcher about how

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Speaker 1: local media was getting set up to cover the trial.

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Speaker 1: Tell me, so, you're in Pike County right now or

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Speaker 1: where are you? I'm actually in the first floor of

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Speaker 1: the courtroom to the courthouse. I'm sitting right below the

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Speaker 1: courtroom in the media room. I'm going to be spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of time here over the next four weeks,

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Speaker 1: five weeks, six weeks, and so what's the feeling like

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Speaker 1: in the courthouse and around the courthouse. Well, today it

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Speaker 1: was a lot of hustle and bustled with that. There

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Speaker 1: were a couple other TIEV stations. We're here dropping off

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Speaker 1: their equipment. We are installing all of our stuff, getting

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Speaker 1: everything set up. Do you think that Waverley Courthouse is

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Speaker 1: ready for a trial of this magnitude they're trying. They've

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Speaker 1: actually installed higher speed internet, they've installed free Wi Fi

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Speaker 1: for us here in the media room. I think there

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Speaker 1: are some you know, there's some businesses that are actually

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Speaker 1: looking forward to it because there's going to be so

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Speaker 1: many people in from out of town as part of this.

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Speaker 1: Over the past year, we've gotten glimpses of the prosecution

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Speaker 1: strategy based on arguments made by lead Attorney Angie Kneppa

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Speaker 1: during pre trial motions. It seems like they will attempt

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Speaker 1: to paint a picture of a tight knit family where

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Speaker 1: everyone was in on the plot. The defense's main argument

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Speaker 1: is that the family isn't on trial here George Wagon

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Speaker 1: there is, and that he didn't actually kill anyone that night.

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Speaker 1: How does defense get out from underneath the legal standard

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Speaker 1: of aggravated murder, which states in Ohio. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to pull the trigger to be convicted of murder if

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Speaker 1: you help plan it, and if you helped cover it up,

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Speaker 1: and if you helped execute it. So that's going to

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Speaker 1: be the very big challenge, and I'm very interested to

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Speaker 1: see what the defense says. The wild card is what

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Speaker 1: Jake and Angela may say while on the stand. They

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Speaker 1: have not seen each other since being arrested in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: How common is that for family to testify against family

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Speaker 1: in a case like this, It is extremely, extremely rare

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Speaker 1: for family to testify against family. Mike Allen is a

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Speaker 1: legal analyst who's worked on the defense and prosecution sides,

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Speaker 1: and is also a former judge. Maybe I've seen it

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Speaker 1: two or three times in all the years I've been

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Speaker 1: doing this, and never never, on a case of this magnetitude.

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Speaker 1: It's like two family members against two other family members,

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Speaker 1: and this is a family that is reportedly extremely close.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be something to see because it just

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen very often. We can assume that what Jake

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Speaker 1: and Angela say about George is not going to be favorable.

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Speaker 1: They're not going to say that he didn't do anything

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Speaker 1: wrong right quite the opposite exactly. I mean, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor is not going to put them up on the

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Speaker 1: stand for them to testify, how wonderful you know, George,

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Speaker 1: is ain't gonna happen. They're not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to play around up there and play foot seet with

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor. I mean, they have to testify, truthfully. Can

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Speaker 1: you talk to us about what the possible end results

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Speaker 1: are for George? Could he walk? Are there lesser charges

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Speaker 1: or is it guilty on all? What are the options? Here?

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Speaker 1: Are the options for George? I mean, obviously one of

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Speaker 1: the options is a fine him not guilty to the

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Speaker 1: aggravated murder. But even if that were to happen, he's

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Speaker 1: still stuck with four counts of aggravated burglary, three counts

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Speaker 1: of tampering with evidence, two counts of unlawful possession of

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Speaker 1: dangerous ordinance, single counts of conspiracy, forgery, unauthorized use of

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Speaker 1: a computer or telecommunications wire. So even if he's not

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Speaker 1: convicted of the homicides, there is a lot here that

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Speaker 1: can put him away for a lot of years. Could

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Speaker 1: all of those together equal a life sentence or is

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Speaker 1: that totally unknowable? Oh? No, it could easily equal a

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Speaker 1: life sentence. Meanwhile, jury selection, which began on August eighth,

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Speaker 1: is underway. The first hurdle is finding an impartial jury

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Speaker 1: in a small town for the largest case in the

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Speaker 1: history of Ohio. Here's retired prosecutor and Flanagan. You have

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Speaker 1: to usually wait until you start to see the jury

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Speaker 1: and see if you can come up with a number

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Speaker 1: of people who indicate they can be fair and impartial.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't really matter if they've had some information

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Speaker 1: come through it. Will they listen to the evidence and

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Speaker 1: the rulings and the matters that have been brought to

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Speaker 1: them in the courtroom, set aside anything else they might

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Speaker 1: have heard, and then make the decision fairly and honestly

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Speaker 1: for both sides. I always talk to a jury and say,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, you want

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Speaker 1: to go home, and you want to be safe in

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Speaker 1: your own heart and mind that you have only done

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Speaker 1: what you've been asked to do because you want to

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Speaker 1: go home and be able to sleep tonight. To find

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Speaker 1: a jury, Pike County sent about a thousand questionaires to

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Speaker 1: locals asking for volunteers. Two hundred people responded, and the

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Speaker 1: court is in the process of whittling them down. Seventy

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Speaker 1: prospective death qualified jurors reported to the Pie County Courthouse.

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Speaker 1: This is where final jury selection is beginning. Qualified means

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Speaker 1: it's already been determined that these jurors are willing to

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Speaker 1: implement the death penalty if it's warranted. Local crime reporter

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Speaker 1: an Jeanette Levy has been our Eyes and Ears on

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Speaker 1: the ground in Ohio for several seasons of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I spoke with Anginette about what it's been like. During

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Speaker 1: the week preceding the trial, seventy death qualified jurors showed

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Speaker 1: up at the Pike County Courthouse. Fifty one of them

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Speaker 1: were women and nineteen of them were men, and so

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Speaker 1: George Wagner, the Force attorneys, they filed a motion saying,

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Speaker 1: this whole panel, the whole veneer, should be stricken because

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Speaker 1: it's too many women, and there were working class jurors

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Speaker 1: who were excluded for financial hardship and they shouldn't have been,

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Speaker 1: so that's discriminatory, and so they thought, you know, we

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Speaker 1: should start over with the whole thing. Well, the judge said, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so and denied the motion. So jury

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Speaker 1: selection continued and were all wondering whether or not they'd

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Speaker 1: be able to really seat this jury, and they were

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Speaker 1: able to do it. So the jury consists of nine

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Speaker 1: women and three men, and then the panel of six alternates,

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Speaker 1: and that's five women and one man. So you have

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Speaker 1: majority women who will be hearing this case. Wow, with

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Speaker 1: having so many women, that's unusual, right, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's unusual. I think we've seen trials

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Speaker 1: like this in the past where it's weighted one way

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Speaker 1: or the other. I covered the Johnny Depp trial in

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Speaker 1: a Virginia, different trial. Obviously a civil case, a defamation case,

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Speaker 1: but the majority of the jurors were men on the panel.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes that's just how it shakes out. We're going to

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Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Would

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Speaker 1: the jury chosen In less than a week before the

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Speaker 1: trial is said to begin, Presiding Judge Steering drops a

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Speaker 1: bombshell on the media. Late today, Judge Randy Dearing issued

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Speaker 1: his final rules on what can and can't be shown

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Speaker 1: on camera or online. Judge Deering is going to allow

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Speaker 1: each witness to opt out of being photographed or recorded

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Speaker 1: that includes any audio of their testimony. So if they

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Speaker 1: choose witnesses can only be seen or heard by people

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Speaker 1: inside the courtroom. The judge will also extend that right

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Speaker 1: to the Wagner's younger brother Jake, and his mother Angela

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Speaker 1: when they testify for the prosecution. When the witness comes

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Speaker 1: to the stand, he's going to say, yeah, the rights

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Speaker 1: not to be shown on television, and then we have

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Speaker 1: to turn the camera off. He's going to do that

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Speaker 1: furbusing the witness. Why you know, it's going to be

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Speaker 1: very difficult if they all say no and we still

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Speaker 1: have any gotten any clarification, and whether or not we

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Speaker 1: can at least play the audio of their voice. We're

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Speaker 1: still kind of up in the air and when this

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Speaker 1: whole thing's going to start, how we can cover it

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Speaker 1: all of that. Here's reporter and Jeannette Levy speaking with

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Speaker 1: producer Chris Graves. In the state of Ohio, witnesses can

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Speaker 1: opt out of being videotaped recorded in any way. So

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Speaker 1: we had to file something. So we're probably going to

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Speaker 1: have it hearing next week. If they deny this motion

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Speaker 1: that you guys are filing, then everyone gets the option

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Speaker 1: to turn down being recorded. Correct, they have the option anyway.

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Speaker 1: What we're more concerned about is Jake and Angela being

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Speaker 1: on camera. We don't want them to be able to

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Speaker 1: opt out, and any other witnesses who want don't want

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Speaker 1: to be photographed. We want the right to record at

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Speaker 1: least their audio. You know, there may be lay witnesses

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Speaker 1: who are fearful of testifying, and that's understandable, but we

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Speaker 1: want to at least be able to hear what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: We all pitched in, like all four Cincinnati TV stations,

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Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Inquire Law on Crime and Court TV, we

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Speaker 1: all are represented by the same lawyer, is It Jacky

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Speaker 1: Jack Rener. Media lawyer Jack Grinder represented Local twelve and

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Speaker 1: several other outlets in the effort to get better access

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Speaker 1: to the trial. On his website, Griner calls himself a

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Speaker 1: reporter's lawyer and is a well known champion for First

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Speaker 1: Amendment rights. We've spoken about him before. He's the same

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Speaker 1: attorney who sued for access to the autopsies in this case.

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Speaker 1: We had hoped that we'd get a ruling that would

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Speaker 1: really go towards maximizing the public's ability to participate in

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Speaker 1: this trial, at least in the sense of observing it.

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Speaker 1: People can come to the courtroom, but for many people

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Speaker 1: that's not possible. With George Wagner the fourth facing twenty

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Speaker 1: two counts, there's going to be a lot of evidence

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Speaker 1: to go through point by point. Also, since there has

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Speaker 1: been so much that's been protected and redacted in the autopsies,

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Speaker 1: this will also be our first opportunity to see the

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Speaker 1: crime scene photos to find out exactly what occurred that night.

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Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie. Those are going to tell a very specific story.

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Speaker 1: I just want to see the accused, Billy Wagner in

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Speaker 1: person and see how his DEMI is. I mean, think

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Speaker 1: about it. It's been alleged that Billy Wagner, George Wagner,

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Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner all attended the funerals of people who

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Speaker 1: they murdered. I mean, can you imagine the level of

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Speaker 1: composure that must take and what kind of psychopaths actually

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Speaker 1: attend the funeral and pretend to be mourning the people

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Speaker 1: they actually murdered. This will also be the time when

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Speaker 1: we find out if, indeed these eight murders the sole

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Speaker 1: motive behind them was for custody of the daughter, who

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Speaker 1: was shared between confirmed murderer Jake Wagner and the victim

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Speaker 1: Hannah may Rowden or were many other things at play,

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Speaker 1: and more importantly, God willing the Rodents, the Gillies, and

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Speaker 1: the Manly family that they'll finally get some justice. As

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Speaker 1: the trial gets closer, there is another surprising development. The

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Speaker 1: jury boarded a school bus and then they were taken

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Speaker 1: to some of the remote locations where the crime scenes

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Speaker 1: actually happened. In both Pikedon and Reardon, Ohio. Jurors visited

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Speaker 1: all four crime scenes, looking closely at run down buildings

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Speaker 1: now partially covered in overgrowth and the vacant ground where

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Speaker 1: the road and mobile homes once sat. But a reminder

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Speaker 1: that the jury view was not to be considered as

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Speaker 1: evidence for the jurors. Rather, it's to give them a

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Speaker 1: better understanding of the arguments here and really kind of

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Speaker 1: give them a lay of the land, if you will. Antonette,

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Speaker 1: Levy and the rest of the media are allowed to

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Speaker 1: follow the school bus full of jurors and via the

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00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 1: proceedings from a distance. Chris Graves and I spoke with

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Speaker 1: her about this. We followed along as the school bus

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Speaker 1: and the motorcade went around and we went to all

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Speaker 1: these sites from nine thirty in the morning till about

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Speaker 1: seven at night. We also went to places points of

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Speaker 1: interest and drove around a lot of roads where you know,

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Speaker 1: they determined it was like the routes they said that

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Speaker 1: the Wagner strove that night. Did they show them in

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Speaker 1: the order that they thought they had been killed? We believe.

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Speaker 1: So it started out at Chris's house, Chris Senior. Then

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Speaker 1: they walked a path down to Frankie Rhoden's house that

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Speaker 1: he shared with Hannah Gilly, and then they went down

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Speaker 1: to Dana Rhoden's home but didn't stop. So it was

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Speaker 1: very interesting. It makes you think, did they start at

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Speaker 1: Chris Seniors, then they went down to Frankie's, they turn around,

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Speaker 1: they see that, you know, whatever's going on at Dana's house.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't stop. Maybe they went down to Kenneth's

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Speaker 1: and came back. We don't know that for certain, but

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Speaker 1: it's certainly a possibility because there was a discussion that

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Speaker 1: Dana had worked at double shift that night and worked

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Speaker 1: later than anticipated. Oh my god, is the implication potentially

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Speaker 1: with what you just said, that they knew she was

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Speaker 1: working a double shift and therefore didn't want to go

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Speaker 1: knowing she wouldn't be there. That was the conclusion We

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Speaker 1: were drawing. That doesn't mean we were right, but it

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Speaker 1: seemed strange that they would drive down to Danas and

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Speaker 1: not get out when you're on the same road. Why

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Speaker 1: do that? I don't recall a case where the jurors

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Speaker 1: and this includes the people the twelve and paneled and

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Speaker 1: then the alternates are loaded up in a school bus

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Speaker 1: and driven out to these locations where these events took place.

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Speaker 1: Here's forensic death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. You think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, as the crew is moving down the road

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Speaker 1: and they've essentially wipe out one portion of the family,

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Speaker 1: are they talking about, you know, what they're going to

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Speaker 1: do next on Union Hill Road? And that kind of

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Speaker 1: puts it in perspective at that moment in top does

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Speaker 1: the jury have a sense of that was the prosecutor

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Speaker 1: or the detectives board that school bus. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: acting like a tour guide, if you will, and telling

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Speaker 1: them it was at this point that they picked up

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Speaker 1: the car. We believed that they traveled in this direction

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Speaker 1: and you're getting an idea of this pace and then

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Speaker 1: you contemplate for a moment what these folks in the

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Speaker 1: vehicle were talking about doing and what they did, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's certainly a note that the prosecutors

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Speaker 1: want to drop into the ears of the jury members.

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Speaker 1: You know, all of these sorts of little details like that,

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Speaker 1: which again I think you know after this trial, these

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Speaker 1: trials are said and done. This is something that will

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00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: be studied for years to come. This Pike County Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Impound lot is a key stop on the jury view. Remember,

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00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,719
Speaker 1: the rodents were found dead inside their mobile homes and camper,

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Speaker 1: and this lot is where those vehicles were hauled and

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00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: are still being held today. They took them to the

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Speaker 1: impound lot at the Sheriff's office, where the trailers are

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Speaker 1: now stored and where the pickup truck that we believed

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00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: said they purchased to commit the murders is stored. They

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00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: were taken to ten locations over two days. To our knowledge,

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Speaker 1: they were not taken into the actual trailers. We were

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Speaker 1: not permitted to go into the actual structure where those

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00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,959
Speaker 1: trailers are housed. So we should have been allowed in there.

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Speaker 1: It's public property, and according to the precedent, even if

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Speaker 1: it was private property, we should be allowed to go

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Speaker 1: on it. But they kept us out. Stephanie and I

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Speaker 1: have been to piked in numerous times over the past

355
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Speaker 1: few years, but this time the stakes failed higher. The

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Speaker 1: last time you and I were here, it was snowing

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Speaker 1: and raining and dark and dreary and so cold, And

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Speaker 1: now it's sunny and bright, and it definitely has different,

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00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: a different feeling. We head to the courthouse to meet

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Speaker 1: up with reporter James Pilcher to find out the latest

361
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Speaker 1: about media access. The most surprising thing about this whole

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Speaker 1: enterprise is how quickly the judge turned from being media

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00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: friendly to all of a sudden being the most restrictive

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00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: trial how any of us have ever had to deal

365
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Speaker 1: with ever. Why do you think we don't know? Why

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00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: We've asked, why we've asked for a meeting with the judge,

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Speaker 1: we've gotten no answer. Technically, if you're a city official,

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Speaker 1: you work for the city. So if the city is

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00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: you know, air quote, standing sitting jury and watching and

370
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: wanting to see how taxpayer dollars are getting spent for me,

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00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: it's more of a transparency public record. This is the

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Speaker 1: most complex, most important murder trial in the history of

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Speaker 1: the state, and yet nobody can watch it. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: unless we want to push it to another Appeals Court

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Speaker 1: or the Supreme Court. There's nothing we can do. Like

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Speaker 1: I kind of get it for retribution purposes if you're

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Speaker 1: somebody who's speaking out against the accused wagoners and you're

378
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: fearing that someone's going to come put a hit on you.

379
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: On Friday, they started erecting a fence around the parking

380
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Speaker 1: lot of the courthouse and the entire courthouse, a chain

381
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: link fence. We had ever seen that before. This is

382
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 1: an old, old courthouse, and George Wagner has to be

383
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 1: brought into the courthouse from the outside. There isn't an

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00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: underground tunnel or any other type of entrance, so they've

385
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: erected defense. Is that concern for his safety? I would

386
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: assume it's a safety issue. They don't want people just

387
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: kind of walking through there that shouldn't be in there.

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Speaker 1: That's my interpretation of why they did that. Hopefully we

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00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: can get cameras in there, that's really the goal. Yeah, yeah,

390
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: right now, I don't know, man, it kind of looks

391
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: a little bit shaky. What do you think the feeling

392
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: is for the prosecution, for the defense for everyone in

393
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: Pike County right now? You know, any time before trial

394
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: you get butterflies, no matter how many of them that

395
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: you've done before, you get butterflies. Let's stop here for

396
00:23:54,040 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: another break. On the morning of the first day of trial,

397
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: the media is alerted to another development. Opening statements were

398
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: expected and slated for today, but there has been a delay.

399
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: We were supposed to be in opening statements right now.

400
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: We got word that somebody involved with the trial has

401
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: become ill and needs some time to recover. It's a

402
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: temporary setback in a process that has taken over six

403
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: years to begin. As of right now, we're planning for

404
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: opening statements on September twelfth. That's next Monday. September eleventh

405
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: is a date etched on the consciousness of every American today,

406
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: at least this year in Southeast Ohio. It's the day

407
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: before the biggest trial in the history of the state.

408
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: We're on the leave of this and these lawyers have

409
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: been eating, sleeping livingness for months now, and I think

410
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: we're starting to see, you know, exactly what each side

411
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: is going to be presenting. James Pilcher. For me, it's

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00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: a culmination of paying attention to this for the last

413
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Speaker 1: two and a half years. I'm glad it's actually happening.

414
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: There were some doubt in my mind as to whether

415
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: or not it actually ever would happen. I'm really really

416
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: interested to hear the opening statements from the prosecution, because

417
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: I think they're going to lay out their case and

418
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: start talking specifically about the evidence that they have. I

419
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: think the things that we're going to look for are,

420
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 1: how does the defense present George as a quote unquote

421
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: innocent bystander on all this? And one of the things

422
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 1: we've heard is potentially George only went along to keep

423
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: Billy from killing JH. If the evidence shows he was there,

424
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: If the evidence and the wiretaps and their recordings of

425
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: him talking about this, which apparently they do, how does

426
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: he get out from underneath the aggravated murder charts, even

427
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: if he is necessarily one of the trigger men. But

428
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: if this is a slam dunk for the prosecution, why

429
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Speaker 1: is the defense going to trial there that I don't

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Speaker 1: think we've seen yet. I haven't seen it, at least

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Speaker 1: I think the defense probably knows something that we all

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Speaker 1: don't know. Do you think there's some sort of break

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Speaker 1: in the case that will come out in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: that no one is expecting? Yes, I do. These are

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Speaker 1: experienced defense counsel. They know exactly what they're doing. So

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Speaker 1: I just think, before this thing is over, we're going

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00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: to know quite a few things about the case that

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Speaker 1: we didn't know before. I think one of the big things.

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00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: And if you come to all these hearings, you see

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Speaker 1: the Rodent and Gilly family survivors who were here every

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00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: single time. I think this is finally going to give

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00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: them some closure, finally some actual justice. More on that.

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00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: Next time, the defense table sits right in front of

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Speaker 1: the witness box, so he's going to be looking right

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00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: at his brother, and his brother's gonna be looking right

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00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,719
Speaker 1: at I don't think I've ever seen photos that graphic before.

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00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: When a Jerseys a human bodies and ripped the shreds,

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00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: there's that thing within them that was they want their

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Speaker 1: pound flash. For more information and case photos, follow us

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00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: on Instagram at kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Maskers produced

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00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Scott de Graus,

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00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: Andrew Arnow and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed

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00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by

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00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Pikedon Masker is a production of Kat

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00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit

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00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

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00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Please welcome mar Fite County Domwoo Festival.

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Speaker 1: Queen Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all

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00:27:52,119 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: together as a community. Okay, my dead who could have

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00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: killed eight family members in one nth I lost my

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00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 1: best friends and I will never be the same because

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00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses.

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00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood.

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00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was

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Speaker 1: the master mind, I'm telling you is a framer. I'm

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Speaker 1: not fitting in prison. One bring our lard. The smaller

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00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch

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00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders, a family Massacre,

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00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,959
Speaker 1: premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on

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00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November

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00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts

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Speaker 1: are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.