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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: In the last days, a stunning development in the case

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Speaker 2: of so called killer Dad Chris Watts, suspect number one

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Speaker 2: in the brutal murder of his two children, Bella and Celeste,

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Speaker 2: and his gorgeous wife Shenan. I'm Nancy Grace, this is

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So called killer Dad, Chris Watts, believed by many to

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Speaker 2: be responsible in the brutal murders of pregnant wife Sanan

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Speaker 2: and his two little girls, Bella and Celeste, now blames

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Speaker 2: his wife for his sex affair that quote led him

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Speaker 2: to murder her and their two young daughters.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you are to me right, kill her dad.

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Speaker 2: Chris Watts continues to blame everyone but himself for his

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Speaker 2: horrific murders of his wife and two little girls. In

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Speaker 2: newly revealed letters, he labels his pregnant wife Shenan as

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Speaker 2: a quote control freak, and claims he sought refuge with

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Speaker 2: his lover, his mistress, who he writes, was quote everything

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Speaker 2: my wife wasn't like with me. I cannot believe this

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Speaker 2: man he is actually blaming Sheanan, the mother of his

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Speaker 2: three children, two little girls and one unborn baby boy

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Speaker 2: for his triple homicide. Okay, what happened in their disappearance

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Speaker 2: and murders. I want you to hear the husband as

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Speaker 2: he begs for help.

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Speaker 1: I just want them back.

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Speaker 3: I just want them to come back.

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Speaker 4: And if if they're not safe right now, that's what's

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Speaker 4: that's what's tearing me apart, because if they are safe,

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Speaker 4: they're come back. But if they're not, this this this

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Speaker 4: has got to stop. Like somebody has to come forward.

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Speaker 1: Somebody come forward.

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Speaker 2: The husband begging for help at that point, trying to

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Speaker 2: find his wife. She's gorgeous, a million dollars smile, long

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Speaker 2: brunette hair.

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Speaker 1: Shannon Watts.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at a photo of her right now with

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Speaker 2: her two daughters, Celeste just three years old, Bella just four.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to Ellen Calaura joining us with crimeonline dot Com.

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Speaker 2: H Ellen, I want to start at the beginning as

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Speaker 2: this whole thing unravels. Tell me about Shannon's new job.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with that.

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Speaker 5: Shannon was having a lot of success selling weight loss

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Speaker 5: patches through multi level marketing company, and part of what

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Speaker 5: a multi level marketing job.

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Speaker 6: Is recruiting more salespeople.

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Speaker 5: So she was sposting on Facebook all the time showing

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Speaker 5: how well she was doing. She was getting a car alliance,

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Speaker 5: so she's got a Lexus. She's going on work funded

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Speaker 5: vacations all the time. She's working really hard, but she's

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Speaker 5: also having the time of her life.

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Speaker 6: And us with what we later learned that.

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Speaker 5: The family had been having financial trouble and they had

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Speaker 5: filed for bankruptcy in two thousand and five, and Chris

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Speaker 5: had reportedly told some neighbors pretty recently that they were

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Speaker 5: thinking about selling the whole.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh.

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Speaker 2: Now here's a mom who has been devoting her entire

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Speaker 2: life to raising the two little girls, Celeste and Bella,

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Speaker 2: and then they hit hard times. The dad is no deadbeat,

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Speaker 2: he's been working too, so they fall on hard times

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Speaker 2: and they have to get out from under staggering debt

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Speaker 2: by following bankruptcy.

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Speaker 1: She manages to land a job.

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Speaker 2: At about eighty thousand dollars year, but part of that

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Speaker 2: job is having to travel away from her children, which

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Speaker 2: she hated she would leave for work. And I believe

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Speaker 2: this country is they call it health supplements. This eighty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars job, she had a lot of trips to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: And Dominican Republic.

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Speaker 2: Her work often took her away from home, and that

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Speaker 2: leaves the husband, Christopher Watts, at home with the two

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Speaker 2: little girls. During this time, she gets pregnant and they

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Speaker 2: are looking forward to the birth of the first boy

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Speaker 2: in the family. Also with me renowned pathologist and medical examiner,

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Speaker 2: doctor Michelle Dupree, and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor

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Speaker 2: of Forensics, Jacksonville University and author of.

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Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet.

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Speaker 2: To you, Ellen Kilaurn, have you ever noticed realtors, Okay,

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Speaker 2: realtors always have beautiful cars.

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Speaker 1: I'm convinced they're all leased by the way.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful cars, beautiful clothes, beautiful jewelry. And I guess it's

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Speaker 2: part of the image they need to project. I mean, Ellen,

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Speaker 2: if you're going to go look at an apartment or

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Speaker 2: look at a house, you don't want to get in

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Speaker 2: a car doesn't crank up. It's all ratty and disgusting inside. Right,

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Speaker 2: So I'm not judging people on their cars, but it's

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Speaker 2: a facade that they need to present. This mom got

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Speaker 2: this job and had to present this facade exactly.

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Speaker 6: It's part of the job to make it. It's part

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Speaker 6: of the presentation to make the whole experience.

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Speaker 5: Seem like something that you want to participate in. Her

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Speaker 5: job isn't just selling the weight loss patches, it's also

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Speaker 5: selling other people taking the kind of job that she has.

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Speaker 5: She's recruiting as well, so she has to protect project

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Speaker 5: an image that makes us look very, very enticing.

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Speaker 2: So she starts this job, and even amidst the new

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Speaker 2: job where she's really having to work and travel out

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Speaker 2: of town away from her two kids, they still are

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Speaker 2: considering selling the house.

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Speaker 1: Ellen, Yeah, that a.

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Speaker 7: Neighbor told a reporter.

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Speaker 5: That just this week that Chris had kind of off

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Speaker 5: handedly mentioned that they were considering selling the house. So

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Speaker 5: it's really hard to say what their financial situation was like.

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Speaker 5: It seems like obviously there had been some trouble in

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Speaker 5: the past, but after they filed for bankercy is when

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Speaker 5: Shannan got this job, and also Chris had been working

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Speaker 5: at the petroleum company, so.

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Speaker 6: They're both working.

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Speaker 5: But it's hard to They've got two children, they've got another.

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Speaker 8: On the way.

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Speaker 5: That's a lot of financial pressure. It's hard to know

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Speaker 5: how easily they really were making end because, like you said,

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Speaker 5: a big part of Shannon's job was making the job

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Speaker 5: look really really attractive to other people.

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Speaker 1: All we know is that, well, what was his job?

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Speaker 1: What was his job? Christopher Wats's job?

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Speaker 5: As you worked for a petroleum company. He's been working

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Speaker 5: there since at least twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 2: I want to get back to her going missing, Ellen,

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Speaker 2: When did that happen?

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Speaker 1: Give me the timeline.

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Speaker 5: She had just got back to get another work trip

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Speaker 5: on early in the Monday morning hours.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I want to clear something up. I

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Speaker 2: want to clear something up with me, Doctor Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, also New York psychiatrist, doctor Judith Joseph.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if you have to travel

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Speaker 2: for work, doctor Michelle dupre But it sounds so glamorous.

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Speaker 1: It is not glamorous.

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Speaker 2: Like this woman went to New Orleans, Toronto, Punta kind

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Speaker 2: of Dominican Republic, Puerto Valerta, Vega, San Diego. When you

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Speaker 2: travel for work, doctor Michelle Duprie, it is not glamorous.

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Speaker 2: I typically get off of a plane, I go straight

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Speaker 2: to the work soite, dragging my beat up suitcase behind me,

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Speaker 2: and I get there.

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Speaker 1: I work.

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Speaker 2: I work late because I want to hurry and work

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Speaker 2: as late as I can so I can get back earlier,

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Speaker 2: end up spending the night in a hotel, grab something

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Speaker 2: on the way, and then I get up as quickly

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Speaker 2: as I can, sometimes three or four in the morning,

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Speaker 2: to get to the airport to get back home.

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Speaker 1: That's not glamorous, doctor Michelle Duprey, You're.

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Speaker 5: Exactly right, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: It is not very hiring, and you are worn out

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Speaker 7: by the time you can hunt.

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Speaker 1: So tell me this.

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Speaker 2: She gets back Ellen from one of these trips, and

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Speaker 2: what happens.

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Speaker 5: She gets back late, early in the hours of Monday morning,

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Speaker 5: he goes to work at five am. Apparently they stay

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Speaker 5: up together for three or four hours talking, and he

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Speaker 5: admitted that it was an emotional conversation. So that's going

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Speaker 5: to be a really big question in this case. What

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Speaker 5: was going on in that quote unquote emotional conversation.

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Speaker 9: Well, so she wasn't seen again after that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, when one partner travels a lot. To

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Speaker 2: Doctor Judith Joseph, renowned New York psychiatrists joining us, that's

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Speaker 2: very hard. As a matter of fact, doctor Judith, when

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Speaker 2: my husband traveled constantly, he would leave on Sunday nine

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Speaker 2: and get back if I was lucky on Friday night

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Speaker 2: our entire relationship when we had the twins, I said, listen,

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Speaker 2: son's got to give. I cannot work and be on

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Speaker 2: call for crime related stories twenty four seven, three sixty five.

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Speaker 1: And you be gone.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's well, you know what, he started his

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Speaker 2: own business so he could name his own hours. But

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Speaker 2: doctor Juth, not everybody is that fortunate to be able

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Speaker 2: to just go run out and start your own business.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard when one.

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Speaker 2: That's very stressful on a family with two tots and

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Speaker 2: another on the way, for one parent to be gone

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Speaker 2: all the time. I guess they did have an emotional conversation.

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Speaker 8: I agree with you, Nancy. You know, traveling is hard

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Speaker 8: on anyone to even people who don't have children. Stuff

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Speaker 8: us on depression, anxiety, sweep disorders related to extensive traveling.

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Speaker 8: And so then when you put that stress into the

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Speaker 8: mix with two young children, a husband who's hearing the

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Speaker 8: brunts of things, and you know, traditionally in our society,

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Speaker 8: some parts of this country are still very very traditional,

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Speaker 8: it's not common for the mother to leave the home,

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Speaker 8: and so there probably were a lot of feelings there,

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Speaker 8: and you know, sometimes people become in the community about

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Speaker 8: about this, and so I'm not sure what was happening

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Speaker 8: with this fami in particular.

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Speaker 7: However, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 8: Travel is stressful and when one parent has to stay

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Speaker 8: behind and one partner has to stay behind, sometimes the

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Speaker 8: imagination goes wild and their accusations of jealousy and infidelity,

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Speaker 8: and we don't know what was happening in this family.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Killer dad Chris Watts is actually blaming his dead wife,

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Speaker 2: his dead murdered wife, Shenan for him murdering her and

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Speaker 2: their two little girls. And they're unborn. Baby boy he

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Speaker 2: was born by coffin birth, which means when the mom dies,

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Speaker 2: the mom's body expelled the baby. Yes, he was born

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Speaker 2: after his mom was murdered. He was born dead Kilerdacris

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Speaker 2: Watts blames his wife, claiming she was a control freak,

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Speaker 2: that that forced him to cheat with so many women,

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Speaker 2: and that because of her Shanan, he was forced to

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Speaker 2: murder her and Belle and Celeste. Okay, what happened in

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Speaker 2: their disappearance and murders.

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Speaker 4: Her flight got delayed from Arizona because like other storms

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Speaker 4: around the nation, she's supposed to get home like eleven,

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Speaker 4: She got home at like one forty eight. She came

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Speaker 4: home from the airport two am, and I left around

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Speaker 4: five point fifteen.

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Speaker 1: She's still here.

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Speaker 4: And like about twelve ten, and that for noon, her

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Speaker 4: friend Nicole showed up at the door. Like I had

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Speaker 4: texted Shan a few times that day, called her say

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Speaker 4: you know, but she never got back to me. But

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Speaker 4: she wasn't getting back to any of her people as well.

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Speaker 4: And that's what really concerned a lot of people, is

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Speaker 4: like she's not getting back to her but like she

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Speaker 4: doesn't get back to me, that's fine, Like she gets

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Speaker 4: busied during the day, but she gets back to her people,

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Speaker 4: which was very concerning. And Nicole called me when she

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Speaker 4: was at the door, and that's when I came home

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Speaker 4: and then walked in the house and nothing is vanished.

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Speaker 4: Nothing was here. I mean, she wasn't She wasn't here,

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Speaker 4: the kids weren't here, nobody was here.

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Speaker 2: We are discussing the case of Shannon Watts. We want justice.

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Speaker 2: Shannon goes missing along with her two children, Bella and

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Speaker 2: Celeste little Toss, and to top it all.

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Speaker 1: Off, Shannon is pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I recall covering a case and I learned a startling statistics.

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Speaker 2: I believe it was from the New England Journal of

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Speaker 2: Medicine that the number one cause of death amongst pregnant

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Speaker 2: women in the US is homicide. The number one cause

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Speaker 2: of death. It's not heart failure, it's not stroke, it's

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Speaker 2: not anything you may imagine. It is homicide. Very disturbing,

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Speaker 2: joining me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, Joseph Scott Morgan daughted you,

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Speaker 2: Joseph and Ellen Calaurin.

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Speaker 1: So Ellen, she goes missing.

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Speaker 2: We just heard the husband, Christopher Watts, begging for help

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Speaker 2: to try to find her.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking this, Sooth.

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Speaker 2: It's not like she'd run away with another man and

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Speaker 2: bring the two little girls, Bella and Celeste with her. Also,

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Speaker 2: she came home that night, she got home from out

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Speaker 2: of town. She has this discussion, probably related to the

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Speaker 2: out of town trips she had to take, and then

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Speaker 2: the husband is for work at five am. She's alive

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Speaker 2: and well, then, so how does she turn up dead?

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Speaker 1: And where? Ellen?

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Speaker 5: As far as I know, there were not any accusations

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Speaker 5: of infidelity on her part, but apparently she did venture

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Speaker 5: to a friend at one point that she was wondering

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Speaker 5: if maybe her husband was being unfaithful.

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Speaker 2: Well according to and yes, yes, uh Mark Geragos, my

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Speaker 2: colleague defense attorney for Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Wenona Ryder,

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Speaker 2: He'll tell anybody a cheater a murderer does not make

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Speaker 2: and he's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, when.

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Speaker 2: You have a happy family and a happy marriage, the

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Speaker 2: husband's not waiting in the shadows to push the wife

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Speaker 2: over a cliff.

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Speaker 1: I know that much.

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Speaker 2: I also know this problems allegedly servicing just in the

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Speaker 2: past two months, because a coworker of Shannon's mom said

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Speaker 2: they may have been headed for divorce. Right when they're

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Speaker 2: turning the corner, Doctor Judith Joseph New York Psychiatrists joining us.

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Speaker 2: They yes, they went bankrupt in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 2: but they recently had enjoyed these lavish trips and alexis.

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Speaker 1: Automobile thanks to her new job.

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Speaker 2: It took out of town a lot, and then problems

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Speaker 2: began to surface at home and looks like they're turning

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Speaker 2: the corner on all their financial problems when she goes missing, Judith, well.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think that that's the statistics that you mentioned

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Speaker 8: about pregnant women and homiciding that you want cause of

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Speaker 8: death is so significant, and people don't realize this that partners,

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Speaker 8: people who are not pregnant husbands, they also experienced post

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Speaker 8: part and depression and stress. And it's not the same

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Speaker 8: cause it's not hormonal. There's a lot of transitions that

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Speaker 8: people have to face when they're having multiple children, and

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Speaker 8: you add the stress of finances, you add marital pressure

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Speaker 8: and maybe a third party as someone who's engaging in adultry,

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Speaker 8: and and then people exploded. And you know, I don't

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Speaker 8: know this family in particularly haven't treated any of them. However,

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Speaker 8: it sounds like they were trying to create this facade

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Speaker 8: disappearance that things were okay, and clearly things were not okay.

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Speaker 2: Well, another thing, Dotter j the Joseph as due to

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Speaker 2: the Joseph, everybody has those problems. Everybody that is married

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Speaker 2: with the family will have children to take care of, jobs,

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Speaker 2: financial pressures. And she certainly was never accused of having

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Speaker 2: a sex relationship with anybody else. So why does she

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Speaker 2: go missing and what does all of that have to

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Speaker 2: do with her body being discovered? Now, I can tell

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Speaker 2: you this much to Joseph Scott Morgan, I'm sorry, but

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Speaker 2: I just don't think men do as well as good

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Speaker 2: a job as women do raising children.

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Speaker 1: And here he is taking care of these two children.

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Speaker 2: Ellen, how does it go from him taking care of

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Speaker 2: the children and now she's dead and goes missing?

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Speaker 1: Ellen, Come on fast forward, Alan.

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Speaker 5: This is a husband who had financially struggled in the past.

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Speaker 5: He's at home alone with two daughters. His wife is

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Speaker 5: having a lot of success. They have another baby on

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Speaker 5: the way.

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Speaker 6: He could have been under a lot of stress, and he.

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Speaker 5: May have felt that his role had been diminished in

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Speaker 5: the family.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I'm asking you, I'm not concerned about his

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Speaker 2: male ego.

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Speaker 1: Ellen. She's dead and now let me just Q and

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Speaker 1: A with myself here. Isn't it true? Cops believed she

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Speaker 1: was killed.

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Speaker 2: In her home and then her body moved to and

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Speaker 2: A Darko oil and gas drilling properties.

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Speaker 1: Who worked there? May I ask you that, Ellen?

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Speaker 2: Who do we know worked at an A Darko oil

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Speaker 2: and gas drilling Name one person?

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Speaker 5: Chris Watt?

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Speaker 2: Thank you, That's what I'm talking about. Doctor Michelle Dupree

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Speaker 2: helped me out here. Pathologist, medical examiner. You know what

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Speaker 2: you and I talk about. When somebody kills, they very

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Speaker 2: often will do it or dispose of the body in

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Speaker 2: a place they are familiar. And I always point to

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson. He's a fisherman. He goes fishing in San

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Speaker 2: Francisco Bay all the time. He fishes, He golfs and

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Speaker 2: he cheats. He fishes, he golfs and he cheats. It's

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Speaker 2: like rents and repeat on the back of your shampoo.

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Speaker 2: He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats. Where is lazy

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Speaker 2: his dead wife, an unborn child, Connor in San Francisco

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Speaker 2: Bay because he's company there, he goes and dumps the

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Speaker 2: bodies there, Doctor Michelle, you see it over and over.

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Speaker 10: Exactly, you really do.

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Speaker 1: We love it when they're dumb. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And here we've got in a darko oil and gas

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Speaker 2: drilling one of those properties where the husband, Christopher Watts

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Speaker 2: works and when to come and Joe, Scott Morgan, I

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Speaker 2: need expertise from you regarding how they might know the

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Speaker 2: mom and the two little girls were murdered in their

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Speaker 2: own home.

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Speaker 4: I called her three texted her about the times, just

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Speaker 4: to say, you know what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't.

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Speaker 4: I could for that for the after I called her

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Speaker 4: and texted her once. It's like maybe she was just

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Speaker 4: busy like she had just gotten back, you know, like

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Speaker 4: everybody's probably calling her from her trip. She just got

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Speaker 4: backrom Arizona, and I figured just she was just busy.

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Speaker 4: But when her friend showed up, that's what it was like,

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Speaker 4: it registered like, all right, this isn't right right now.

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Speaker 4: I don't even want to just like throw anything out there,

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Speaker 4: like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and

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Speaker 4: with the kids. But I mean, could she event could

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Speaker 4: she just taken off?

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Speaker 10: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: But if somebody has her and they're not safe, like

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Speaker 4: I want them back now like that that's what's in

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Speaker 4: my head, Like if they're safe right now, they're going

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Speaker 4: to come back. But if they're not safe right now,

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Speaker 4: that's what that's the not knowing part, Like if they're

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Speaker 4: not safe. Last night I was had everybody in the

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Speaker 4: house on I was hoping that I would just get

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Speaker 4: just ran over by the kids running in the door

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Speaker 4: and just like barrel Russian. But it didn't happen, and

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Speaker 4: it was just a traumatic night trying to be here.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Kill her dad, Chris Watts now blaming his quote control

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Speaker 2: freak quote wife, his words.

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Speaker 1: Not mine. I guess she did have to control things,

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Speaker 1: since she was.

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Speaker 2: The working mom, bringing home a salary, taking care of

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Speaker 2: two children, trying to decorate their home and make wonderful

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Speaker 2: dinners and dress the girls, all while she's pregnant. I

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Speaker 2: guess she did have to be a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a control freak, if you want to call it that,

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Speaker 2: I prefer to think of it as a loving mom

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Speaker 2: trying to give the best possible home and lives to

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Speaker 2: her children. And what did that get her with Chris

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Speaker 2: Watts being murdered along with her children? This guy, if

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Speaker 2: I could just get my hands around his neck, Chris

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Speaker 2: Watts kill her dad, blaming everyone but himself for the

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Speaker 2: murders of his wife and two children and one unborn

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Speaker 2: baby boy.

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Speaker 1: We're learning all.

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Speaker 2: This from writings from letters that he writes behind bars,

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Speaker 2: claiming his lover was everything his wife never was.

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Speaker 1: And just remember his two little girls, Bella four and Celeste.

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Speaker 2: Three, were in his truck as he carried their mom's

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Speaker 2: body to hide it at the oil fields where he worked.

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Speaker 2: He suffocated the two little girls one by one as

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Speaker 2: they begged for mercy and stashed their bodies in oil drums.

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Speaker 2: In addition to multiple handwritten letters, mostly about himself. He

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Speaker 2: shared his thoughts with an inmate, Dylan Tauman, a president

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Speaker 2: in Wisconsin who befriended watts Tallman was in a cell

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Speaker 2: next to Wattson. The two became friends jail buddies. Tauman

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Speaker 2: actually released a series of books titled The Cell next Door.

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Speaker 2: He says What's confided that his marriage to Sheanane was unhappy. Really,

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Speaker 2: then where did.

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Speaker 1: The three children come from?

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Speaker 2: What's whine that Shanan was quote really busy with her

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Speaker 2: job and that he was often the quote primary caregiver

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Speaker 2: to his daughters. Uh So, wats claims when he lost

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Speaker 2: Wade and started working out, women started paying attention to him,

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Speaker 2: and he quote met Nicole. She was quote everything my

401
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Speaker 2: wife wasn't like with me. She was just nice and

402
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Speaker 2: not a control freak. What's also trashed Nicole Kessinger, claiming

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Speaker 2: she Nicole quote became the.

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Speaker 1: Death of me.

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Speaker 2: He also called her a quote Harlot and a quote

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Speaker 2: Jezebel who led him to destruction. Oh okay, so now

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Speaker 2: he's blaming his mistress. Okay, it's her fault that Shenan,

408
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Speaker 2: Bella and Celeste and the baby boy Nico are all dead,

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Speaker 2: he wrote a prayer of confession. Chris Watts quote, the

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Speaker 2: words of a harlot have brought me low. Her flattering

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Speaker 2: speech was like drops of honey that pierced my heart

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Speaker 2: and soul. Little did I know that all her guests

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Speaker 2: were in the chamber of death.

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Speaker 1: Can you believe this guy? What happened?

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Speaker 3: I don't want anybody to get some of those.

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Speaker 1: Texts, like they have nothing to do with this days

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Speaker 1: and they're.

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Speaker 11: Just like between you and Chris, Yes, they're just they're

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Speaker 11: just so just tell me what you're They're.

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Speaker 3: Just kind of ronchies. Okay, Well need anybody, everybody's an adult.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna where. I don't need that. I don't want

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Speaker 3: the papers to get that.

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Speaker 11: That's all I want, but only want that we would

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Speaker 11: be looking for again is the same kind of questions

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Speaker 11: we're getting to here, is things about his children, things

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Speaker 11: about his the questioning of did he ever you know,

427
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Speaker 11: has he ever said something to you.

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Speaker 12: That might indicate maybe not then, but now that there

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Speaker 12: was something like this in his mind, or you know

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Speaker 12: what we're looking for. I don't need to come out

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Speaker 12: and tell you.

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Speaker 2: That you are hearing the alleged mistress of killer dad

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Speaker 2: Chris Watts, and even in light of the fact that

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Speaker 2: his wife, his pregnant wife, and two little girls were

435
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Speaker 2: found dead. The mom Shenan Watts, buried in a shallow grave,

436
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Speaker 2: the two little girls found in that's of oil. She's

437
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Speaker 2: still whining about how she doesn't want to hand over

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Speaker 2: her cell phone to investigators because there are quote rawn

439
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 2: she texts, unless you want it on page six of

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Speaker 2: the New York Post, do not.

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Speaker 1: Put it in writing, and really don't even say it.

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Speaker 2: If it's something you're ashamed of or something you don't

443
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: repeat it, just don't say it.

444
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: For Pete's sake.

445
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: And she is in a homicide investigation because she doesn't

446
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: want the world to see her RAUNCHI text, like I care.

447
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: About her raunchy text.

448
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 2: Well, in the end, she did not impede the investigation.

449
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: She handed over the phone at Let's take a listen

450
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: to Nicole Kessinger, the girlfriend the mistress that finally comes

451
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: forward two days after Shania's disappearance, after she read newspaper articles.

452
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 12: Listen on Tuesday, which would have been the fourteenth of August,

453
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 12: you had read some newspaper articles on the thirteenth and

454
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 12: the fourteenth regarded this case you had. Almoso had a

455
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 12: conversation with Chris at some point during the day on

456
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 12: Monday and on Tuesday.

457
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 3: Because of what you found.

458
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 12: Specifically, what you said was and I don't know then

459
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 12: me put words in your mouth, but you found out

460
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 12: that his life whispering, and I yes, and you did

461
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 12: not know that prior, and you found that out via

462
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,479
Speaker 12: the newspaper articles, and that caused you concern.

463
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 13: Well, I just realized that he was lying to me,

464
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 13: and I was like, well, if you can lie to

465
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 13: me about this, what else are you.

466
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 6: Lying to me about?

467
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: And it made me realize that maybe.

468
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 14: His wife was in danger at that point, and it

469
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 14: was day two too and she still wasn't home.

470
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 3: What did that cause you to do with your phone?

471
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 9: Though?

472
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 13: Oh? When I deleted those, I was just kind of

473
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 13: grossed out by him, To be honest with you, I

474
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 13: was just like, I don't know what's going on right now,

475
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 13: but you just lied to me, and I don't want

476
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 13: to see this come over my phone anymore, so I

477
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 13: removed it.

478
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: So you just you already said, but you removed text messages.

479
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 14: I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me.

480
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,479
Speaker 3: I mean that's what it was.

481
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 14: It was the hurt that made me delete it, and

482
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 14: then it was the lie that made me start questioning

483
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 14: everything else he'd been telling me for the last few days.

484
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 3: And that's when you decided to come forward.

485
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 2: Yes, you are hearing the voice on Nicole Kessinger kill

486
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: her dad. Chris Wats is the mistress during this time.

487
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: Joining me now in addition to Susan Constantine, Vincent Hill,

488
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 2: Ashley Wilcott, also with me is Ellenkilaur and Crime online

489
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: dot Com investigative reporter. You say there are inconsistencies, and

490
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: isn't it Trisha has some very unusual computer searches as well.

491
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 10: Well, that's exactly right, Nancy, and the computer searches are

492
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 10: what I see as some inconsistencies. As you hear in

493
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 10: her discussions with the investigators, she talks about her relationship

494
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 10: with Chris as one where he was more serious about

495
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 10: her than she was about him. She says repeatedly she

496
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 10: encouraged him to try and save his marriage. She says,

497
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 10: he has such a beautiful family, why not hold on

498
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 10: to this, this beautiful home. She says repeatedly that she

499
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 10: encouraged him to stay married and work on his marriage.

500
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 10: But once there was a data review of her.

501
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 7: Phone, it looks like me.

502
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 5: Maybe there there is some inconsistency. She had spent two

503
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 5: hours online doing a Google search for wedding dresses.

504
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 2: She wait, is this the same woman that searched for

505
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: anal sex preparation?

506
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 15: That is correct?

507
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah?

508
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: You know it's funny how you gloss over the hard

509
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: parts and you make me say them. Okay, in addition

510
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: to the frothy wedding dress, I'm the one that has

511
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: to blurt out the anal sex searches.

512
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: Thanks Ellen. What else do we find on her searches?

513
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: She definitely.

514
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 6: She did a search related to terms marrying your mistress?

515
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Well, wha, wha, wha what? What? What did you say?

516
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 5: She did it?

517
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 6: She did a Google search term search of terms related

518
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 6: to the phrase marrying your mistress?

519
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 11: Is it?

520
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: She did a search on how much she could make

521
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: if she wrote a book like Amber Fry.

522
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 5: She yeah, I don't think it was specifically how much

523
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 5: can I make if I write a book, but she

524
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 5: absolutely was interested in She did Google searches on Amber

525
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 5: Fry and her book Dealing.

526
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: Oh okay, let me remind everybody who is Amber Fry?

527
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: Amber Fry was the mistress of Scott Peterson. Amber Fry

528
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: did not know Scott Peterson was married to a pregnant woman.

529
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: Amberfry then cooperated.

530
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: Completely with police.

531
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: And actually caught Scott Peterson in damning cell phone conversations,

532
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: wire tapping him and as a matter of fact, there

533
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: was a fear that Peterson would come kill her, but

534
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: she stuck it out and she was a star witness

535
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: at the trial. It turned everything around in the Scott

536
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: Peterson prosecution and the murder of his pregnant wife Lacy

537
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: and their unborn child, Connor. So you know, here you

538
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: hear Nicole Kessinger going, Wow, I don't want you to

539
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: find out to release my rawchy text. Amber Fry put

540
00:29:55,320 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 2: it out there and completely cooperated with police. She volunteered

541
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: to cooperate with police and was a star witness. She

542
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: then later wrote a book, and I hope she made

543
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: a lot of money.

544
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: Off that book.

545
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: God bless her to Susan Constantine, deception body language expert.

546
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: You know, I've got to give it.

547
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: To Nicole Kessinger. Without her cooperation, this case may not

548
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: have cracked the way that it did. But according to

549
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: Ellen Klora and there's a lot of inconsistencies.

550
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, there are a lot of inconsistencies. And the thing

551
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 7: is is that it needs they need to go back

552
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 7: and be able to verify the information that she's given them.

553
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 7: But for overall, you know, when I'm listening to her Nancy,

554
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 7: there's a lot of truth in what she's saying. So

555
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 7: the issue was hard to come over. It's her lack

556
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 7: of emotion. You know, her emotion aspect is just completely off.

557
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 7: She's very cavalier. Her tone of her voice can is

558
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 7: really off putting, and so she really sets herself up

559
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 7: for really scrutinize her because her personality is shining through

560
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 7: about how she you know, how how she sees the

561
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 7: entire situation and she how detached that she is. The

562
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 7: part that bothers me the most is that she is

563
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 7: trying to pretend like, hey, I'm coming in, I'm the savior,

564
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 7: work things out with your wife, But yet she's kind

565
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 7: of like pushing them away, but then kind of motioning

566
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 7: to come closer. So she's she's very manipulative.

567
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 14: At one point, he told me that they sat down

568
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 14: and they talked about it, and he told her that

569
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 14: he wanted to either fix things or like to try

570
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 14: to fix things, and if she didn't want to fix them,

571
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 14: then they needed to like move forward with the separation

572
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 14: and like actually file for a divorce. At this point

573
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 14: was the impression that I got from this and just

574
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 14: what he told me.

575
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 8: And so.

576
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 14: He said that she was like pretty receptive to just

577
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 14: not trying. He was like, she seemed like she just

578
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 14: wants me go. He's like, when she has her mind

579
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 14: made up, she has her mind made up and that's

580
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 14: what she wants. And he's like, she doesn't want to

581
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 14: try anymore. And he's like, and neither do I really,

582
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 14: And he was like, it's done, and he's like and

583
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 14: then the next day, I don't even know what daisies were.

584
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 14: Sometime when he was out there, he told me we're

585
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 14: putting the house up for sale as soon as we

586
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 14: get back. And I was like, well that was quick.

587
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 14: And he was like, it's her. She's ready to go,

588
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 14: and I was like, okay.

589
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 15: It's the dramatic moment hops confront Chris Watts's mistress after

590
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 15: he murdered his pregnant wife and two daughters to start

591
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 15: a new life with her.

592
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: Why would you.

593
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: Why go your family to be The just.

594
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 15: Released video shows thirty year old Nicole Cassinger being interrogated.

595
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: Did you ever see anything get him about her?

596
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 11: Or never anything about his kids being a problem or

597
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 11: anything about.

598
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: His wife being a problem.

599
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: Never?

600
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: This shocked me just as much as I.

601
00:32:58,920 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: Can get shocked.

602
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 15: Right, she breaks down, sobbing over the gruesome fate of

603
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 15: the children, four year old Bella and three year old Celeste.

604
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 14: Ah, he's so disgusting.

605
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: I'm so ashamed of him.

606
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 5: Why wha, why?

607
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: Why?

608
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: How?

609
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 5: I don't even understand how you could like bring yourself

610
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 5: to do that.

611
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: Somebody who's like that.

612
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: Bit you are hearing girlfriend Nicole Kessinger, and you were

613
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: hearing our friend at Inside Edition, Jim Murray Susan Constantine,

614
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: Deception of body language expert. What do you make of

615
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: that where Nicole Kessinger the mistress breaks down in tears.

616
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 7: Well, it came on very sudden, So that's the one

617
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 7: thing that I look for, and also how quickly she

618
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 7: recovers after it. So that's what I'm looking at, is

619
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 7: that it's not unusual for someone just to break down,

620
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 7: but when you listen to her voice, there is there.

621
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 7: I'm listening for these kind of breaks or pauses and

622
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 7: their voice. But I'm not really hearing that. I'm not

623
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 7: saying that she does not feel that way. I think

624
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 7: that she does. But what bothers me the most is

625
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 7: how quickly the onset of that emotion was and then

626
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 7: how quick it ended. That bothers me because there should

627
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 7: be remnants of it throughout once she has finished making

628
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 7: that statement, you should still hear her voice soil cracking

629
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 7: up afterwards. So even though she's emotionally upset, she quickly

630
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 7: gets over it awfully fast. That's suspicious to me.

631
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: To Ellenclaurincrime online dot Com investigative reporter, you mentioned inconsistencies.

632
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 2: What other inconsistencies have you discovered, because I think not

633
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: only was she genuinely upset about the best of the

634
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: deaths of Belle and Celeste, but also was distancing herself

635
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: because if she had known anything about this murder plot,

636
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: she would have been erupted at doing jail time right now.

637
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 5: Yes, one thing that I want to make clear is

638
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 5: that even though there are some inconsistencies in her story,

639
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 5: it's also very very clear that Chris Watts lied to her.

640
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 5: She did not know Shannan Watts was pregnant, and he

641
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 5: told her that Shannon was gritty ready to leave the marriage,

642
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 5: when that is one not true.

643
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 6: We see that.

644
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 5: However, there's one other incidant of the interrogation when Nicole

645
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 5: tells police that.

646
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 6: She never told any of her friends or anyone about her.

647
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 5: Relationship with Chris because it was very early on and

648
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 5: she was still, you know, working through a separation.

649
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 10: But that ended up not being the case.

650
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 5: She did have a text message exchange with a girlfriend

651
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 5: about her relationship with Chris, but and she called investigators

652
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 5: the next day and.

653
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 2: Told them that Alexis Terreschuk not just the girlfriend we've

654
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 2: been listening to Nicole Kessinger, but also some other woman

655
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: who played these kinky sex games with killer dad Chris Watts.

656
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 9: There was a second mistress, a woman named a man

657
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 9: and her name was secret. All during you know, his

658
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 9: wife took their children to both of their parents live

659
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 9: in North Carolina. So she went for six weeks in

660
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 9: the summer with her girls when they were out of school,

661
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 9: to stay with his parents and her parents for a vacation.

662
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 9: And that is when he went wild.

663
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 6: He was like a bachelor.

664
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 9: Even his friends had joked with him, and this was

665
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 9: this was all the police report. Police report that the.

666
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: County has released.

667
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 9: The friends sent him a text and said, how is

668
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 9: your life as a bachelor, And he lied to his

669
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 9: friends and said, oh, you know, I'm just working out.

670
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything else.

671
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 9: He wasn't working out.

672
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: Working out there, working out.

673
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: I can make a lot of crew judgs right now,

674
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: but I'm not jumping into.

675
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 14: A new relationship is a little quick. It's like I

676
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,959
Speaker 14: was in a relationship earlier this year, and I think

677
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 14: this is also a little quick. And I'm like, so

678
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 14: why don't we take our time? And I'm like, if

679
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 14: you guys end up doing a week on a week

680
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 14: off with your kids and like the week you have

681
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 14: your kids being with your children, and the week they don't,

682
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 14: I'm like, I don't even want to.

683
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: See you every day.

684
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 14: I'm like, I think we should spend like a few

685
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 14: days of that together. I'm like, because I like my

686
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 14: space and I think you need your space. I think

687
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 14: you need your space to like develop your identity again,

688
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 14: and like get it back because I think he's just

689
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 14: been like so wrapped up in this whole thing that

690
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 14: he's got in his own life and his life that

691
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 14: he I mean, he doesn't remember.

692
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: Probably what it's like to like be single or have time.

693
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 14: Where it's like just him.

694
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that.

695
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 14: It's a beautiful thing, and I really try to like

696
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 14: take it smart with all that. And it was the

697
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 14: same thing with his kids. It was just like, you know,

698
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 14: like and I and we talk about things every once

699
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 14: in a while where you know, I'd be like, hey,

700
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 14: if I ever meet you know, because like I have

701
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 14: a lot of house plants, it's a good example.

702
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,720
Speaker 1: So I have a lot of house plants.

703
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 14: And I told I told him I was like, one day,

704
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 14: if I ever meet your kids, I was like, I'm

705
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 14: going to show these girls how to like.

706
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: Paint, pottery and plants plants.

707
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 14: It was like, I think they would love to see

708
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 14: something grow that they build.

709
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 3: I think it would be really.

710
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 14: Really cute and like little stuff like that. But it

711
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 14: wasn't very frequent. It wasn't hey, we should get married,

712
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 14: and hey we should have babies and hay, I want

713
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 14: to live with you.

714
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: Hey, ne me to meet your.

715
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 14: Children now, and let's cut the mom out.

716
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 3: It was never like that.

717
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 12: There was never any conversation about but you know, we

718
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 12: can't do this with her around.

719
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 3: We can't do this with the kids around. He never

720
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: said that. You never said that.

721
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe they didn't talk about the marriage and the

722
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: moving in because there was a problem his wife, Shananne,

723
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: the pregnant wife. You know, I'm listening to the girlfriend,

724
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: Nicole Cassinger. Were these statements, like trust Chuck, before or

725
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: after the bodies were found?

726
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: Before? Okay, so she didn't yet know that the wife

727
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 1: and the children were dead.

728
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a little that alleviates some of this, because

729
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: I was wondering, how could she talk about all that

730
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: when the bodies had just been recovered.

731
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 16: You know.

732
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: Another aspect to this is police were listening.

733
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: To her, but they were probably also looking at her

734
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: her as a potential person of interest, potential She did

735
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: not have anything to do with these murders.

736
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Let's just be clear about that.

737
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: So the wife and the children at this point are missing,

738
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: and she's just talking as fast as she can. She

739
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: conveniently left out the search for wedding dresses to people.

740
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: Quote hate Amber Fry, who was Scott Peterson's mistress when

741
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: Lacey's pregnant wife was murdered, how to prepare for anal sex. Oh,

742
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: let's see, there's just so many to choose from. I

743
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: don't really know what to pick first. Alexis ter Restchuk.

744
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 2: I doubt pretty seriously she knew his plan to murder

745
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 2: his wife and children, or that he had another mistress.

746
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: Bring us up to date to Alexis to Restchuck.

747
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 9: So I don't think she did know that he had

748
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 9: another mistress. There was a woman named Amanda and she

749
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 9: we secretly interviewed her before her name became public, and

750
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 9: she told us that she met Chris on a dating app.

751
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 9: They had a really dirty one night stand. She said

752
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,800
Speaker 9: that he was into He wanted to do a rape fantasy,

753
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 9: that he choked her out while they had sex, and

754
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 9: she loves.

755
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: In the ripe fantasy. Was he the victim or was

756
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: she the victim?

757
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 9: He was the victim, so he was the one that

758
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 9: was raping her in their sex fantasy that was consensual.

759
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: She said, all that rage, all that hate towards women,

760
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: I just okay.

761
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: Go ahead.

762
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 9: And she said that she really she had a really

763
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 9: good time with it. She thought he was really attractive

764
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 9: and it was a really sexy one night dancer. Yeah,

765
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 9: so he started cheating on his wife, his pregnant wife,

766
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 9: basically the same minute she got pregnant, and then he

767
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 9: moved on to not just cheating her, but having a

768
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 9: full born relationship and a woman who thought they were

769
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 9: going to get married. This is somebody who he facetimed

770
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 9: with this mistress. He so he killed his wife and children.

771
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: Why are you acting so indignant that the mistress thought

772
00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 2: they were going to get married.

773
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: Mistress knew he was already married.

774
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 9: I guess she had thought he was a marry in type,

775
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 9: but he would just bounce back from one and marry

776
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 9: her again. And so the night that the women went missing.

777
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 9: In the first night, I'm sorry the daughters and his wife,

778
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 9: he sat on his bed, his unmade bed in his bedroom,

779
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 9: on his phone, his iPhone, and face timed with her

780
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 9: so she could see. He said he was in the

781
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 9: bed where.

782
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 6: His wife had most likely died, and that he was

783
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 6: just chatting with her.

784
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 9: She said he was staring at her very intently, and

785
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 9: he wasn't crying about his children missing or his wife missing.

786
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 9: He was just carrying on like a flirty conversation with her,

787
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 9: knowing that his wife was He had killed his wife

788
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 9: and his daughters in that merry house within the last

789
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 9: twenty four hours.

790
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: Wow, you know, it's it's interesting that people worry about

791
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 2: the you, Alexis, let me be clear, worry about how

792
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: the mistress was hurt. You know, to hey with the mistress,

793
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: she knew full well he was married with children, although

794
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: although I don't think she knew the wife was pregnant.

795
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: Vincent Hill, private investigator, author of Playbook to Murder. So

796
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: often the defense will be and I remember Mark Gerrigoes,

797
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 2: who never agree with him, but he is a good

798
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: defense lawyer would always say, an adulterer does not a

799
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: murderer make, and that's true. Just because you're having an affair,

800
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: it does not mean you're going to commit murder. But

801
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: in domestic homicides, very often you will find when the

802
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: wife is murdered by the husband, there has been an affair.

803
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: So the converse to me is true. Very often in

804
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: domestic homicides you will find the killer is an adulterer.

805
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: True adulterer doesn't mean a killer necessarily, but the reverse

806
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 2: may very well be true.

807
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill. They had to know they were going to

808
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: dig up at least one mistress. Vincent.

809
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 16: What's really disturbing Nan too, I think with this other

810
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 16: mistress that he met on tender or whatever dating website.

811
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 16: It was the fact that he wanted to play out

812
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 16: this rape fan see and strangle her. I think he

813
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 16: was kind of setting the tone of what he was

814
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 16: going to do with his wife. And I wouldn't be

815
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 16: surprised if more women came forward at a later time,

816
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 16: whether it's from ten years ago, and say, yeah, he'd

817
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 16: liked to choke or strangle or something like that. So

818
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 16: I think all the signs were there this whole time,

819
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 16: and luckily for this other mistress, I think she got

820
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 16: out kind of lucky.

821
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, well, you know what, You're right,

822
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: You're right.

823
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: And again, although we're giving her a hard time, she

824
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 2: is in no way implicated in his murderous plan. As

825
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, listen to girlfriend Nicole Kessinger, you, no.

826
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 14: It wasn't fair to his family for him to have

827
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 14: an affair. It wasn't fair to me to have him

828
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 14: lie to me and make me think that having is

829
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 14: the plan.

830
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 1: And still to this day, I don't even know what's lion,

831
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: what's not. I don't even know if they were like.

832
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: Filing for divorce.

833
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 14: I don't know if they were putting the house up.

834
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't even know.

835
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 13: I don't even know anymore what is real and what's not.

836
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 14: But what I do know is it's just like, you know,

837
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 14: that wasn't fair to me either, because if I'd known

838
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 14: not even all the truth, but like obviously some of it,

839
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 14: I wouldn't have even engaged in any of this in

840
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 14: the first place. And it just I mean, and that's

841
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 14: the part for me, just like on my personal level,

842
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 14: outside of everything that is happening that is gonna affect

843
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 14: me long term. It's like, you know, I'm gonna wake

844
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 14: up every day and know that like his mom and

845
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 14: her unborn child and these two little girls are not

846
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 14: around anymore, and it breaks my heart.

847
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 1: It is, oh my god.

848
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 14: Any and then I have to think about like the

849
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 14: consequences of his actions and how they affect everybody else, like.

850
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 3: All of these her famili's impacted.

851
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 14: My name is about to be like slandered for probably.

852
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: A while, so called kill our dad.

853
00:44:53,600 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: Chris Watts now blames his wife for his sex affair

854
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 2: that quote led him to murder her and their two

855
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: young daughters. Life behind bars is too good for Chris Watts.

856
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 2: Goodbye friend,