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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noal.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. And guys, you know

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Speaker 3: it's been a thesis of our show for quite some

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Speaker 3: time that history and the present and the future, these

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Speaker 3: are riddled with unexplained events, questions that are left unanswered.

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Speaker 3: And we're in a very exciting time in civilization right

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Speaker 3: There are dangers that are unprecedented, there are questions that

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Speaker 3: have never been addressed, and at the same time, there

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Speaker 3: are astonishing breakthroughs in almost every field of science imaginable.

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Speaker 3: And we got together off air, as we do, and

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Speaker 3: we said, we've got a lot of questions about the

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Speaker 3: world of science. Who's the guy who could answer these

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Speaker 3: for us, or who is the genius nice enough to

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Speaker 3: humor us with questions about simulation theory AI, regrowing limbs,

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Speaker 3: interstellar objects, everything from the past and the way we

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Speaker 3: reevaluate it to the questions and the big breakthroughs of

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Speaker 3: the modern day. So with that we do have good news.

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Speaker 3: We found a guy to talk to us. We proudly

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Speaker 3: introduce you to the author, the engineer, the cartoonist, the roboticist,

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Speaker 3: the podcaster, Fello Georgia tech alum by the way, all

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Speaker 3: around science expert or Hey cham or Hey, thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 4: Man, Hello, Hello, so happy to be here. Thanks for

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Speaker 4: having me on your show and calling me a genius.

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Speaker 4: That's probably overrated.

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Speaker 5: No, that's something.

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Speaker 6: A genius is a self deprecating genius.

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Speaker 2: Jorge is also an author you can check out Out

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Speaker 2: of your Mind right now and in book form. I'm

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Speaker 2: looking at a hardcover. It looks amazing, written with Dwayne Godwin.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Duyne Godwin. He's a neuroscientist m M and dean

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Speaker 4: of a graduate studies at wake Forest University. So he's

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Speaker 4: a pretty knowledgeable guy.

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Speaker 3: And we're big fans of your comic series PhD as well.

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Speaker 3: We're going to get into some of that. You may

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Speaker 3: recognize Orgey as the co creator and host of Daniel

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Speaker 3: and Jorge Explained the Universe, as well as your newest

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Speaker 3: podcast project, Science Stuff. Could you tell us a little

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Speaker 3: bit about your background and your own words and what

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Speaker 3: led you to Science Stuff.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I have a PhD in engineering in robotics actually

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Speaker 4: from Stanford University. But then I decided to become a cartoonist,

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Speaker 4: which is still something of a concern to my parents.

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Speaker 4: So my career took a little bit of a creative

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Speaker 4: turn there. I've done comics, I've done movies, I've done

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Speaker 4: TV show and my latest and books as well nonfiction books.

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Speaker 4: And my latest is this podcast with iHeart called Science

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Speaker 4: Stuff Amazing. Yeah, yeah, where we answer all kinds of

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Speaker 4: fascinating questions about science for anyone.

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Speaker 2: And look, we're some of the original stuff guys over

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Speaker 2: here with one of these weird little stuff shows. We

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Speaker 2: are so excited that the format you've chosen for Science

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Speaker 2: Stuff includes interviews, includes all sorts of different explorations that

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Speaker 2: I don't want to downplay just conversational style shows, but

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Speaker 2: you are really putting in the work to bring in

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Speaker 2: other voices and explore things to their fullest. I really

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Speaker 2: love it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks, you know, I basically have no rules on

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Speaker 4: the show. You know, whatever it takes to best explain

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Speaker 4: the whatever question we're trying to answer. You know, if

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Speaker 4: we find an expert and he's amazing and engaging or

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Speaker 4: she's amazing and engaging throughout, then that's what you'll hear.

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Speaker 4: But if it's better for me to like go to

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Speaker 4: a quantum computer lab and have you hear what a

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Speaker 4: quantum computer sounds like, that's that's what we'll get amazing.

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Speaker 3: And you also, I've got to say, you're also super

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Speaker 3: into self experimentation when appropriate. I'm thinking specifically about the

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Speaker 3: hypnosis episode.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I try to make it as you know, experiential,

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Speaker 4: experiential as possible.

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Speaker 5: That's a word. Yeah, I should know that.

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Speaker 4: And can I you know, take the listener long into

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Speaker 4: whatever topic we're doing. So I did one where I

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Speaker 4: got hypnotized. I went into the computer lab. They had

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Speaker 4: quantum computers. I'm doing one coming up where we're testing

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Speaker 4: whether frog meat really tastes like chicken.

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Speaker 7: WHOA, I'm sorry, I gotta quickly double back hypnotized. So

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Speaker 7: how did did it take? How did that go for you?

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Speaker 7: And what are your thoughts on that? From a scientific perspective.

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Speaker 4: Yes, super fascinating. You know, I think what we all

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Speaker 4: think of hypnotism when we hear the word hypnotism is

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Speaker 4: this kind of like mystical or hoaxy, kind of hokey,

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Speaker 4: you know, entrancing people. But nowadays what people call hypnotism

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Speaker 4: is more like therapy, you know, like guided meditation, kind

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Speaker 4: of guided therapy really kind of getting you into your

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Speaker 4: thoughts and getting you to use your imagination to really

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Speaker 4: kind of basically simulate your life or simulate different situations

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Speaker 4: so you can get better perspective on.

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Speaker 3: It, to live in a simulation. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's how they describe it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how they describe ith.

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Speaker 2: Can we go that route?

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Speaker 5: Guys?

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Speaker 2: Can we go ahead and jump off that cliff.

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Speaker 5: Or not?

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Speaker 4: It feels like we're tittering on the brink already.

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Speaker 8: Okay, So, so for years, the better part of a decade,

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Speaker 8: we have been fascinated with the concept of simulation theory

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Speaker 8: or hey, could you explain just in the brief baseline

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Speaker 8: what people mean when they say simulation theory.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Basically, it's the idea that we're not really really real,

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Speaker 4: like you're not real biological animals with brains. We're actually

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Speaker 4: just characters in a video game. So that's the basic idea.

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Speaker 4: We're all just kind of like, uh, non player characters NPCs,

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Speaker 4: and in some sort of computer program, maybe run by

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Speaker 4: some alien or advanced human civilization in the future, where

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Speaker 4: they have a giant computer the size of the planet maybe,

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Speaker 4: and in this computer they're simulating artificial beings, and the

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Speaker 4: idea is that maybe we're some of those artificial beings.

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Speaker 4: We're not real we're not real people, we're actually just

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Speaker 4: computer programs.

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Speaker 7: Well, and this sounds a little out there when you

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Speaker 7: put it that way, but there's some incredibly smart people

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Speaker 7: that go all in for this, right for sure?

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think Elon Musk is pretty famous. Not our

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Speaker 4: favorite guy as for some people these days, but he's

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Speaker 4: pretty famous as being sort of all in on this theory.

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Speaker 4: Anybody else really, Yeah, Like Neil de Grassy Tyson, he's

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Speaker 4: on records saying like, oh, this is pretty This is

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Speaker 4: a pretty compelling argument for the idea that we are

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Speaker 4: in a simulation, and I can't think of an argument

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Speaker 4: against it.

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Speaker 5: So it's like, you know, it's a pretty it's.

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Speaker 4: Kind of a very intelligent, compelling argument that people who

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Speaker 4: are for the simulation theory put forth, and you know,

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Speaker 4: smart people can't really argue against it.

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Speaker 7: It's also fund this as a thought experiment. That's how

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Speaker 7: I found it to be the most engaging personally.

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Speaker 2: Well, you get into that in your episode Are we

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Speaker 2: living in a simulation featuring Nick Bostrom? With Nick Bostrom

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Speaker 2: because he's the guy who put forth the philosophical argument

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Speaker 2: essentially that this could be true? Right? And if it

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Speaker 2: were true, why? And I gotta tell you, going through

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Speaker 2: and listening to that, I wanted to ask you. I

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Speaker 2: want to ask you both, like I want to sit

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Speaker 2: down with you and Nick in that moment just say, well, guys,

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Speaker 2: what I feel like we're thinking in human terms for

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Speaker 2: a lot of these arguments, for like what we can

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Speaker 2: imagine as being possible scientifically technologically we're talking about computing

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Speaker 2: power and how you know, putting a bunch of computing

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Speaker 2: power towards one thing or another thing. I do wonder

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Speaker 2: if people like Nick Boscherman and you, like hyper intelligent

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Speaker 2: human beings, ever imagine that the universe entire that we

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Speaker 2: experience and believe to be the universe could be the

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Speaker 2: thing that's being simulated rather than just a planet size

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Speaker 2: simulation or something like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, like the is the universe itself a simulation?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's very suspicious, right, because there's laws that

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Speaker 4: basically help you predict what's going to happen in the universe,

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Speaker 4: Like if you throw a baseball up in the air,

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Speaker 4: you know exactly where to catch it. And so it's

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Speaker 4: kind of weird that it almost feels like a program, right,

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Speaker 4: Like it almost feels like a video game. And so yeah,

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Speaker 4: there's some people think that maybe the universe itself, the

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Speaker 4: whole universe, is some sort of simulation. But then you

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Speaker 4: get to the question of what is it running on,

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Speaker 4: like right on a computer, right, yeah, well yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or is is what we imagine to be reality just

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Speaker 2: based on the constraints of this simulation. So what we

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Speaker 2: think is possible or even could be is in a

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Speaker 2: box that is you know, this place. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, maybe that's too weird.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yes, good question, because it's all so further to

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Speaker 3: add to that box analogy. Part of the box is

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Speaker 3: the limited the limited ways in which the human minds

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Speaker 3: can experience data. Right. We know that we were talking

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Speaker 3: earlier on ridiculous history about the concept of the observable

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Speaker 3: universe and or hey you were you took great care

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Speaker 3: to point out that the observable universe is not the

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Speaker 3: whole universe, not the universe entire, and therefore the things

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Speaker 3: that we can observe through a relatively limited set of

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Speaker 3: sensory inputs are not necessarily, you know, the whole pizza

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Speaker 3: pie is. I want to go back to something you

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Speaker 3: mentioned in your in your setup for this concept of

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Speaker 3: simulation theory, you noted, Yes, it's a coherent it's a

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Speaker 3: brilliant it's a well thought out argument. It's also sometimes

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Speaker 3: criticized as something that is impossible to disprove. Could you

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Speaker 3: tell us a little bit about what people mean when

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Speaker 3: they say that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so well, maybe we should talk about the

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Speaker 4: argument first, in case people don't know the argument. The

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Speaker 4: argument is that that and this was put by this

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Speaker 4: person called Nick Boston. He's a philosopher, Oxford professor at

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Speaker 4: the time, and he really took this idea that's been around,

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Speaker 4: you know, basically since computers have been around. People thought, well,

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Speaker 4: if we can program little agents or little programs, maybe

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Speaker 4: you can program people. And then those people think they're

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Speaker 4: in the real world, but they are actually programs. But

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Speaker 4: Nick Boston put out this sort of logical argument that

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Speaker 4: said that there's really three possibilities that could be true,

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Speaker 4: or one of them only one of them can be true.

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Speaker 4: So one of them is that most civilizations really don't

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Speaker 4: make it very far, you know, they don't make it

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Speaker 4: to the stage in their technological development where they can

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Speaker 4: build the planet sized computer and build these massive simulations.

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Speaker 4: Possibility too, is that some civilizations can make it to

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Speaker 4: that stage, but they don't have any interest in creating

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Speaker 4: these simulations, like it's maybe they find it unethical, or

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Speaker 4: maybe they think it's just a waste of resources and

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Speaker 4: auction three is that, you know, there are some civilizations

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Speaker 4: that make it to this super advanced age, and some

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Speaker 4: of them love to make simulations, in which case there's

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Speaker 4: probably billions of simulations in the history of the universe.

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Speaker 4: And so the number of simulated beings outnumbers would outnumber

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Speaker 4: the number of regular, real physical beings. And so if

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Speaker 4: you have to make a bet whether you're real or simulated,

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Speaker 4: the rational bet, you know, if you're placing a bet

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Speaker 4: on this, it would be that you are a similant

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Speaker 4: being because you know, the odds are that you are

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Speaker 4: if you believe these arguments.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing, so good. Uh hoor hair. Are you a father?

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Speaker 5: I am? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So did you have a Minecraft phase or like

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Speaker 2: with your kids at all?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's still lingering. It's it's surprisingly a longing's got.

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Speaker 6: A staying power.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, even like I mean kids you know, grow up

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Speaker 7: with it and continue to enjoy it until like adolescence.

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Speaker 7: I mean, it's just such an incredible, uh and creative platform.

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Speaker 2: So my kids are gone starts playing Minecraft right now

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Speaker 2: as we're recording this, and they are in a procedurally

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Speaker 2: generated world where if they go out far enough and

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Speaker 2: their character via you know, as a user, can see

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Speaker 2: the next stage, right, the next chunk of data that

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Speaker 2: needs to get loaded, it gets loaded up and they

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Speaker 2: can interact with it. But it's not real until they

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Speaker 2: get to it. Right that that concept of procedural generation

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Speaker 2: feels uncomfortably real to me. I uh, in this world

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Speaker 2: it's but again, it doesn't mean it is. It just

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Speaker 2: feels uncomfortably like that thing when we're looking deeper and

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Speaker 2: deeper into quantum mechanics and deeper and deeper into some

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Speaker 2: of the stuff that makes up this world. It does

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Speaker 2: feel as though when we're actually looking at things and

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Speaker 2: studying things, we're getting a ton of data. But then

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Speaker 2: you back up just a little bit and not so much.

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Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, it's an interesting thing because you know, in

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Speaker 4: this back and forth argument between people saying like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're in a simulation, most likely, we're not likely in

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Speaker 4: a simulation, that point gets really kind of thrown around

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Speaker 4: a lot back and forth, and so some people say like, oh,

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Speaker 4: it would be it would be impossible to simulate the

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Speaker 4: whole universe, every atom of every particle of everything object

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Speaker 4: around us. And then the people who are for the

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Speaker 4: simulation say, oh, well, then you can use procedural algorithms

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Speaker 4: where you only simulate the things you're looking at, and

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Speaker 4: like if a scientist goes into gets on a microscope

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Speaker 4: and looks really closely at something small, then then you

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Speaker 4: simulate that little bit of with more detail. Quantum scientists

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Speaker 4: are now saying, well, that's fine, but even and even

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Speaker 4: if you did that, simulating quantum physics is so outrageously

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Speaker 4: expensive for computers, then you would have to have quantum computers.

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Speaker 4: But even if you had quint of computers, then you

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Speaker 4: have to simulate those, and then you even those are

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Speaker 4: super inefficient, and so it gets thrown back and forth,

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Speaker 4: even with this argument of like using procedural algorithms.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me a little bit of your your recent

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Speaker 3: conversation on science stuff with the world experts on the

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Speaker 3: idea of terraforming Mars, and one of the one of

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Speaker 3: the big things that comes up for people who are

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Speaker 3: quite bullish on the concept as well as for people

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Speaker 3: who are very much against it, is the sheer amount

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Speaker 3: of energy, right, and the ambitious technological breakthroughs that would

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Speaker 3: have to occur. And I just want to say that

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite moments in that episode was when

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Speaker 3: you add these experts if they actually wanted to go

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Speaker 3: to Mars, and one of your experts straight up set no.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 4: It's fascinating because Mars right now is very inhospitable. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's like a desert. You went there and your your

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Speaker 4: space suit had a leak in it, you would die.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's no air, no oxygen. Your blood will

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Speaker 4: will boil, your saliva will boil. You want to survive there?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 4: And so I think one of the experts that they

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Speaker 4: wouldn't want to go there right now, first of all,

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Speaker 4: because it's uh, you know, she has a family and

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Speaker 4: it would be kind of tough call there to make.

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Speaker 4: But the other side just said that, you know, marsh

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Speaker 4: is another planet and we kind of have no rights

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Speaker 4: to it, you know, we should leave it at pristine

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Speaker 4: and untouched, the like we have national parks here in

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Speaker 4: the on Earth.

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Speaker 6: Well, that's not going so well.

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Speaker 4: The I know, it might be in the minority.

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Speaker 7: The prevailing attitude, you know, it would seem in this

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Speaker 7: country is one of colonization, you know, one of like

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Speaker 7: everything belongs to us, everything is fair game. And that

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Speaker 7: certainly seems to be the perspective of someone like Elon Musk,

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Speaker 7: who seems really hot on colonizing Mars and keeps i

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Speaker 7: would say, over promising and under delivering in terms of

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Speaker 7: timeline around that. Any thoughts on that and like why

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Speaker 7: that's such a hot no pun intended kind of topic

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Speaker 7: for that kind of billionaire techie class.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Well, I think the main problem is that

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Speaker 4: there hasn't been a lot of research onto this topic.

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Speaker 4: You know, there were some papers back in the nineties,

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Speaker 4: maybe in the seventies and eighties, and some a few

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Speaker 4: people have wrint papers since then, but a lot of

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Speaker 4: it is kind of speculative, were kind of opinion based

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Speaker 4: or very like back of the envelope kind of calculations.

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Speaker 4: So it's kind of a field that right now is

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Speaker 4: very open to different opinions, you know, Like some people say, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we can, well, there's not enough CO two in the

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Speaker 4: polar ice caps of Mars to really kind of fill

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Speaker 4: up the atmosphere there. And then some people say, well,

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Speaker 4: that's all right, we can just round up some comets

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Speaker 4: and the meteor and the asteroid built and have them

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Speaker 4: crash on Mars. And some people say, what are you

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Speaker 4: talking about. That's insane, but it's possible. And so that

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Speaker 4: that's kind of how it goes back and forth.

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Speaker 7: Is that maybe also one of those kind of move

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Speaker 7: fast break things kind of approaches that a lot of

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Speaker 7: Silicon Valley type folks where it sort of like trot

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Speaker 7: this idea out there because it sounds on its surface

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Speaker 7: so futuristic, like the O week we should be on Mars,

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Speaker 7: like we deserve that as a human race, as a

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Speaker 7: human civilization, But then sort of sort out the details later.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it definitely sounds like it. And it's also

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Speaker 4: sort of something that it seems also possible in this

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Speaker 4: problem to kind of trigger something. It could run away

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Speaker 4: from you in either a good direction or a bad direction.

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Speaker 4: So for example, if you melt, let's see a little

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Speaker 4: bit of the polar ice caps that bring some into

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Speaker 4: the atmosphere, and then that creates a greenhouse effect, which

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Speaker 4: heats up the atmosphere and the more which melts more

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Speaker 4: water or CO two, which blocks more sunlight. And so

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Speaker 4: you know, you could maybe do something small and it

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Speaker 4: will kind of cascade into this huge change in the

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Speaker 4: in the atmosphere, possibly possibly.

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Speaker 3: Right a wave we can't turn back.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And so it's sort of at some point

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Speaker 4: it feels like, oh, we could, yeah, we could totally

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Speaker 4: trigger you know, global warming on Mars. What's the worst

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Speaker 4: that could happen? And then some people say, there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of that worst that can happen.

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Speaker 5: There.

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Speaker 3: We'll pause for a word from our sponsors and return

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Speaker 3: with more from who Hate, And.

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Speaker 2: We've returned a while back. We I can't remember the

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Speaker 2: name of the episode, guys, or exactly what it was on,

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Speaker 2: but we talked about potential fixes or like, let's say,

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Speaker 2: terraforming light here on Earth to address some of the

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Speaker 2: climate issues that we are now in the midst of you.

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Speaker 2: For a long time, it was this thing that was coming,

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Speaker 2: that might come, that could be out there, And it

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Speaker 2: does feel, at least in this moment that with things

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Speaker 2: like the flooding in Central Texas that just occurred as

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Speaker 2: we're recording this on July seventh, some of the warnings

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Speaker 2: about iceberg. There's a doomsday iceberg or ice shelf that

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Speaker 2: is essentially showing signs that we are very soon going

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Speaker 2: to have a lot more water flooding the oceans, and

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Speaker 2: it's making the oceans more salty, not less salty for

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Speaker 2: some reason, which is just it feels like we have

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Speaker 2: a lot of problems hanging out here on Earth that

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Speaker 2: deal specifically with climate and things that could be addressed

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Speaker 2: with some form of advanced terraforming or light terraforming, just

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Speaker 2: little things we could do. But when we looked at it,

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Speaker 2: Ben Nol, do you remember the concept was to in

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Speaker 2: some way blot out part of the solar energy coming through.

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Speaker 7: Are you talking about the physicists that proposed setting off

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Speaker 7: a nuke that would potentially fill the atmosphere with soot,

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Speaker 7: and uh, you know, he claims would in some way

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Speaker 7: the climate change.

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Speaker 2: That's what got what I wanted to bring that up.

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Speaker 7: Maybe we'll get to that, but I just think it

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Speaker 7: it triggers me in that way. But Matt, maybe clarify

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Speaker 7: what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry if you're talking about the the proposition of

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Speaker 3: blocking the sun.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, but but again just as a way to

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Speaker 2: curb some of the heating, the overall you know, trend

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing in heating temperatures. It just seems like

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Speaker 2: they're maybe to somebody standing on the outside like I

387
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Speaker 2: am in this moment, how can we funnel more resources,

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Speaker 2: minds and just energy into that kind of thing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it seems kind of almost silly to be

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Speaker 4: thinking about, you know, terraforming Mars when we can't even

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Speaker 4: like terror anything here right.

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Speaker 2: But here, you know, I mean, I don't know, it

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Speaker 2: makes me think about Mar the thoughts that potentially there

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Speaker 2: was life on Mars at some point in it's in

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Speaker 2: its past, you know, or at least there were there

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Speaker 2: was at least waters there and put the potential for

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Speaker 2: life maybe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, yeah, I know, it's it's wild,

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Speaker 4: it's and it's interesting because here in the Solar System,

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Speaker 4: we basically have like three data points, right, we have Venus, Earth,

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Speaker 4: and Mars, three rocky planets about the same orbit, the

402
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Speaker 4: same amount of sun, but all three turn out super

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Speaker 4: duper different. It's almost like if you have the triplets

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Speaker 4: and a triple experiment and you see what happens to

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Speaker 4: each one, and you know, one of them is a

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Speaker 4: super dry desert with no atmosphere, even though they all

407
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Speaker 4: started about the same. Mars is a desert with no atmosphere.

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Speaker 4: Venus is the complete opposite. It has like too much atmosphere,

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Speaker 4: huge clouds of CO two that make it nine hundred

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Speaker 4: degrees fahrenheit, and the surface of Venus, and then in

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Speaker 4: the middle we have Us. And so I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: we have a pretty good idea of what could happen

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Speaker 4: if things go wrong either way.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's why they call it the Goldilock zone. Right.

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Speaker 3: And there's there's something that I was talking about some

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Speaker 3: of your work and your conversations was with some old

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Speaker 3: friends of mine from Georgia Tech. Weirdly enough, and one

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Speaker 3: of us stumbled on this point that I'd love your

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Speaker 3: reaction to, Uh, it's the idea that, yes, terraforming already exists.

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Speaker 3: Humans are currently terraforming Earth, just not in the best ways.

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Speaker 3: How would you how would you react to that? Does

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Speaker 3: that sound accurate or on base?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: For sure, I mean we are. We are definitely changing Earth.

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Speaker 4: I mean Earth has changed a lot since the beginning.

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Speaker 4: You know, we started with no atmosphere, and then it

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Speaker 4: had an atmosphere, and then it it didn't have any water,

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Speaker 4: then it had water. You know, initially it was ASCO

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Speaker 4: two than you know, uh, bacteria converted all to some

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Speaker 4: of it to oxygen and that's what we have now.

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Speaker 4: So it's everything. It's always changing. But the idea that

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Speaker 4: humans can affect that is definitely true. You know, we've definitely,

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Speaker 4: through our activity, are causing the atmosphere in the planet,

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Speaker 4: temperatures to change. And so that's actually one of the

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Speaker 4: kind of ideas that they have for Mars. It's like, hey,

436
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Speaker 4: maybe we can go to Mars and just polluted right.

437
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I brought up that, frankly pretty ridiculous

438
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 7: proposal by a computer scientist, not a physicist. I was

439
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,880
Speaker 7: mistaken a guy named Andy Haverley, who's a Microsoft software

440
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 7: engineer from Washington State, and he wrote a paper in

441
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 7: an admittedly non peer reviewed scholarly journal or I think

442
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 7: it's a web based collection of non peer reviewed scholarly

443
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 7: articles that proposed sequestering thirty years worth of CO two

444
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 7: emissions in underwater rock by andating a nuclear bomb underground

445
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 7: within the Earth's crust. And he said he got the

446
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 7: idea from the movie Oppenheimer, which seems like a really

447
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 7: sound science there. Obviously, there's a lot of people saying

448
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 7: this is absurd, and I'm sure that you'll probably fall

449
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 7: on that side as well, but it does speak to

450
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 7: something that is similar to terraforming, or maybe it is

451
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 7: a discipline that is what sort of is the father

452
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 7: of terraforming. This idea of geo engineering, and it's something

453
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 7: that I guess been around since the forties. But the

454
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 7: problem is, and the critiques that are often leveled at

455
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 7: geoengineering are those knock on consequences, those domino effect, butterfly

456
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 7: effect things down the chain that can really happen without

457
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 7: proper care being taken to prevent things like that. Do

458
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 7: you have any thoughts about the concept of geoengineering or

459
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 7: you know, if burying a nuke in the Earth and

460
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 7: blowing it up is a smart way to be good

461
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 7: stewards of the planet that we've already kind of jacked

462
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 7: up beyond repair.

463
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, for sure, I think most people kind of

464
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 4: it's all sort of loved into the same thing. Terraform geoengineering.

465
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 4: You know, crazy things like exploding a nuclear bomb mat

466
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 4: like you said, like to cause basically a nuclear winter

467
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: to cool down the planet. Or some people talk about

468
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 4: like releasing special aerosols or special like little tiny needles

469
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 4: kind of that will sort of reflect the certain wavelengths

470
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: of light and things like that. I think, you know,

471
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 4: I was clearly pointed out in the movie Jurassic Park. Sure,

472
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 4: chaos is hard to predict, you know, when you have

473
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 4: a complex system like this, it's like it's they're basically

474
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 4: ruled by chaos rules, which means, you know, things can

475
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 4: take a turn for the worst really really quickly and

476
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 4: without us being able to predict it unless you know,

477
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 4: like everything, every single variable possible, which we cannot have.

478
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 7: And this remulation an answer to that, running these elaborate

479
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 7: algorithms and these elaborate simulations that could potentially show more

480
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 7: of those knock on consequences, trying to maybe put a

481
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 7: little positive spin on some of this kind of runn

482
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 7: amock AI or you know, machine learning type stuff. And

483
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 7: I don't mean to pivot too quickly, but do you

484
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 7: have any thoughts around how these kind of models, you know,

485
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 7: could potentially be helpful with combating things like climate change?

486
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 6: Or is the genie already too far off and out

487
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 6: of the bottle?

488
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

489
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 4: No, I think modernly is the best tool we have

490
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 4: basically because we only have one Earth, we can't like

491
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 4: experiment with it. You can try something and see how

492
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 4: it works if it kills us all and so basically

493
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 4: simulations computers, huge computers, it's the only way you can

494
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 4: really test these things and figure out solutions.

495
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 3: I want to pivot us just a little bit here,

496
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: and I think we all agree. I think we're all

497
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 3: on the same page and agree with that answer. But

498
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: in the course of your expiration, you've run into a

499
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: lot of what we used to call ad science, right so,

500
00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: or let's be diplomatic out of the box propositions. Right

501
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 3: there we go dream big. Humanity has always been a

502
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 3: hold by beer species. So with that in mind, could

503
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 3: you tell us some of the most wildly ambitious like

504
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: scientific propositions you've run across, you know, the nuke stuff,

505
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 3: the blocking the sun. What's the most sci fi kind

506
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: of proposition you've run into that has been seriously considered,

507
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: whether in the past or the present, to address some

508
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 3: of these big scientific issues.

509
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, let's see. Just in the episode on terraforming Mars,

510
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 4: one of the ideas that's being floated out there kind

511
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 4: of seriously to heat up Mars because it's too cold

512
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 4: there is to basically create giant space mirrors, like flood

513
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 4: one hundred or thousands of mirrors around Mars and basically

514
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 4: have them point the sunlight that Mars gets to, like

515
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 4: the north or south pole, like a giant space magnifying glass.

516
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, what could go wrong?

517
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 4: And then yeah right right, doesn't sound too too expensive.

518
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: And then then you could start melting the poles and

519
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: then that might trigger global warming, and then that might

520
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: heat up the rest of the atmosphere. That's one crazy idea.

521
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 6: That's nuts.

522
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah.

523
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 4: Have you have you all heard of the Dyson sphere?

524
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: Ye?

525
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: Yes, dice swarm baby.

526
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 4: That's another wild, wild idea, just like cover a star

527
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: maybe and suck up all the energy.

528
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: You'd have all the energy you need to simulate other places.

529
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 4: Probably so yeah, yeah, And people you said as maybe

530
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 4: a way that we could detect advanced alien civilizations out there.

531
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 4: And you see where there used to be a star.

532
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 4: If you see that it's blocked off and it only

533
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: gives you know, infrared radiation, then then maybe they invented

534
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: a Dyson sphere there, and that means there's aliens there.

535
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: How satisfied would it be to first find an extraterrestrial

536
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: civilization and then secondly to see that one of our

537
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: crazy ideas made it off the drawing board. It's pretty inspiring.

538
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it means more ontocenting, right maybe hopefully

539
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 4: hopefully they're nice aliens and good role models for us.

540
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: The concept of a Dyson sphere Joree specifically reading about

541
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: that for today, thinking about some of the simulation theory stuff,

542
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: and it appears that at least the way was originally

543
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: imagined with the Kardashev scale. This concept of fully covering

544
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: a star in some kind of I don't know, a

545
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: literally a sphere of technology to then absorb one percent

546
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: of that star's energy wouldn't be at least to the understanding. Now,

547
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: that wouldn't be physically possible because of the gravitational forces

548
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 2: at hand. But this, this swarm concept, to me feels

549
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 2: well again, I'm using the word feel because I am

550
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: not smart enough to fully understand it. But I would say,

551
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: if you had some kind of grid system, satellite system,

552
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: imagine Starlink but around a star. But then imagine the

553
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: number of Starlink satellites multiplied by a thousand, then you

554
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: know that kind of conceptually, at least in my mind,

555
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: I can picture it. I do wonder if, as we've

556
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: got these new pieces of technology, some of the new satellites,

557
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 2: some of the new imaging tech that's even land based,

558
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: like Earth based, where we can see out much deeper

559
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: and much further into the universe, if we will ever

560
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: discover something that we just don't understand. Our sensors don't

561
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 2: understand the light kind of have you, as you're saying

562
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: you can only detect infrared light or something coming off

563
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: of a star. We just can't understand what that light is.

564
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: But it's just, you know, millions of satellites rolling around

565
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: a star. I don't know what I'm saying other than

566
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: that makes me very very excited.

567
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

568
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, well yeah, because you know, it seems very unlikely

569
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 4: because the universe is so big and it's so sparse.

570
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,959
Speaker 4: Even though it's there's so many stars and plants out there,

571
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 4: it's it's still pretty sparse, and so I think the

572
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 4: chances that we'll ever meet an alien species or you know,

573
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: run into them are pretty slim. So it is super

574
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 4: interesting to think about, like, well, how else could we

575
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: detect them? How else could we know they're there? And

576
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 4: to think about, you know, like if they had similar

577
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 4: technology to us, what would be the signatures of those technologies?

578
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 4: You know, could we see radio waves coming out of it?

579
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 4: Can we hear music coming out of their Are there

580
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: radios and things like that?

581
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 5: Yeah?

582
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 4: Or could we detect them using starlink satellites to cover

583
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 4: up their sun?

584
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's such a pickle. We've talked about it

585
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: a little bit in the past on our sister show,

586
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: just the on episodes of this show, just the problem

587
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: of time and space and while we're here conceptually in

588
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: outer space, while we're running our own simulation and model

589
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 3: thereof there's a question that I think has been on

590
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: a lot of our minds ever since the story of

591
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: a mua mua. Why are interstellar objects so rare? Like,

592
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: why is it so rare for us to encounter them?

593
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 3: I think there have only been check me on this

594
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: guy's three documented so far.

595
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: Three confirmed that we've observed, right.

596
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, and the third one was very recently, basically

597
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 4: last week.

598
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 3: So why is it if the universe is so big?

599
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: One of the first questions lay folks would have is

600
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: why is it so rare for stuff from the outside

601
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: of the Solar System to make it to this neighborhood

602
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 3: right right?

603
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 4: Well, the first thing is that that's a good thing,

604
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 4: ben because you know, like you don't want stuff crashing

605
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: into your planet. You don't want to be living in

606
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 4: like a debris zone. Basically, we just did an episode

607
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 4: about what it's like to be a planet in the

608
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 4: center of the galaxy. Oh wow, And the analogy there

609
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 4: is pretty fascinating. So if you take if you make

610
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 4: a bubble around us, like around our Sun, a bubble

611
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 4: that's four light years big, like if you look ford

612
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 4: light years in all directions, all that's in that bubble

613
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: is basically Us. Most of the mass in that huge

614
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: bubble is just the Sun and Jupiter and the rest

615
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 4: is just like little tiny rocks like our planet. If

616
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 4: you take that same bubble and you put it in

617
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 4: the center of the galaxy, you would find about ten

618
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 4: million stars in that same bubble in addition to the

619
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 4: super massive black hole that's in the middle of our galaxy.

620
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 4: So if you live there, you're basically toast. Like like

621
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: you know, so many things can have things in crash

622
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 4: into you. Another star could be flying by and like

623
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 4: kick you out of your orbit, or it could steal

624
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 4: and you suddenly be orbiting another sun. And with so

625
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 4: many stars, there's like super nova's going on all the time.

626
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 4: Quasars from the super massive black hole would be like

627
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 4: basically roasting your planet. So it's sort of a good

628
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 4: thing that we're living in the suburbs of the galaxy.

629
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's probably a reason life, you know, proliferated out here,

630
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 2: way out here in the quiet, right.

631
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

632
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: Okay, But let's say it's thought that this one three

633
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: I Atlas, this this most recent interstellar object, it's thought

634
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 2: that it's potentially a comet. We need more information on it.

635
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: Kind of the way, what was There's a second one, guys,

636
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: and I cannot remember it. It's not amua mua. It's

637
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: not this one. It was the it was the third one,

638
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: which is I guess officially the second one, but it was.

639
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: I think that one was proven to be a comment.

640
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: That seems like an interstellar or an object that exists

641
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: in space that is just moving. It seems like the

642
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 2: kind of thing that could, with its own propulsion, just

643
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: continue moving, even outside of one solar system into another.

644
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible that an intelligent civilization would

645
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 2: send something like that ever, in an attempt to get

646
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: out of their own solar system, not even really to

647
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: make contact or you know, nothing, not applying any kind

648
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 2: of thoughts on it as to what its purpose is,

649
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: but just sending something outside to see what's there.

650
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think you know, the way the physics

651
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 4: works is that most likely these things do come from

652
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 4: another solar system, because you know, to get rocks or

653
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 4: comments or anything that kind of complicated elements to form

654
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 4: like in the middle of nowhere, like just out of

655
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 4: a gas cloud is very unlikely. So most of these

656
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: things probably come from another solar system. And then probably

657
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 4: about happened with something knocked in and it kind of

658
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 4: got knocked up at door of it and then got

659
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 4: thrown out into space and we just happened to sort

660
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 4: of catch it. Yeah, but whether they're sent by.

661
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not saying this one is. Yeah, I guess

662
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: it just I mean, I'm wondering if it could be Yeah, yeah,

663
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if that's a viable thing that we could

664
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: even imagine or think to look for. Almost like again,

665
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: I can only imagine some of the satellites, the early

666
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 2: satellites that we sent out. Was the one that had

667
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: the Golden Record on it, Voyager. Yeah, just something like that,

668
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: but more complicated and perhaps a little more rocky.

669
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 3: I mean, use the use the materials you have right,

670
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: use the stuff that has proven to already be spaceworthy.

671
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 3: So it's a it's a brilliant thing to think about. Also,

672
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 3: to that point we brought up earlier, I believe the

673
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 3: the second interstellar object confirmed in recent observation is Comic

674
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: two I or Comic when it's called Borisov. Yes, but yeah,

675
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: confirmed to be a comet. This stuff is. This stuff

676
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 3: is so cool because it shows us first that it's good,

677
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: as you said, Jorge, to live in the verbs of

678
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: the galaxy where it's not always a constant peel of Quasos.

679
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: But then it also yeah, yeah, I mean I live

680
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: in the city, so that analogy really hits up. But

681
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 3: there's I think there's another aspect of this to explore,

682
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 3: kind of speaking to Matt's question about humanity sending stuff

683
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 3: out right, just sending out voyage or whatnot into the darkness.

684
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 3: What do you see right now as the future of

685
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: human space exploration in the broadest of senses.

686
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, the media future is just

687
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 4: to like check out our neighborhood, you know, like what's

688
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: going on in Europe by one of the moons of Jupiter.

689
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 4: Is there water down there? Could there be life in

690
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 4: that water? Or what's going on in Mars underneath the

691
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 4: surface of Mars? You know, was there life there at

692
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 4: some point? Could there still be Like technically there could

693
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 4: still be you know, little aliens living down there in

694
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 4: the underground pools of Mars. So I think that's I

695
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 4: think that basically our priority right now is just to

696
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: learn from our solar system so that we can then

697
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: know more about planets, how they form, what's going on

698
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 4: with different planets, not just Earth, And then I think

699
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 4: from there you can then start looking at exoplanets. So

700
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: we've detected, you know, thousands of other planets around other

701
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 4: Solar systems, but we know very little about them, Like

702
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 4: we don't know how they form, what's normal out there.

703
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 4: You know, there's so much we don't know yet.

704
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: Don't We kind of know that planet nine is out there,

705
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: or there is some kind of object out there, trans

706
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 2: Newtonian object.

707
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 5: You mean, like on the other side of the Sun.

708
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: Or yeah, there was oh gosh, there was more rumblings

709
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: coming out of BBC Sky at Night magazine something. I

710
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: was reading a couple other things on this show. Way

711
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: back in the day, we used to call it Niberu

712
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: because that was the like fabled, you know, secret planet

713
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: that was going to destroy our Earth one day. It

714
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: was a really fun hypothetical thing that was talked about

715
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 2: on message boards and talked about for a long time.

716
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: But it does appear that there is something out there

717
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: beyond Pluto essentially, or out close to the area where

718
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: Pluto is located.

719
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that's something I think that's hotly

720
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 4: debated right now. It's like, is there is there are

721
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 4: there more planets even in our Solar system that we

722
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 4: just haven't seen and you know some people, I know,

723
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 4: some folks at Caltech kind of like study everybody's orbits,

724
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: all the planets, and they from just the gravitational signature.

725
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, wait, these orbits tell us that there's

726
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: something there, but we don't know if for.

727
00:40:58,719 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 6: Something else acting on it.

728
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 7: What you mean like they can detect the force the

729
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 7: sum of the forces includes something that isn't immediately visible.

730
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 5: Yeah.

731
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like they see the for example, the orbit of

732
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: Neptune and they see it's not as perfectly accounted for

733
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: with all the planets we know about. Maybe there's something

734
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 4: else tugging it out there, and that's why they think

735
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 4: maybe there's another planet out there. But I think it's

736
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 4: still hotly debated, which means it's still a possibility.

737
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: Up for grabs. Love it, love the love that great expanse.

738
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 3: We're sort of any we're in that method of as

739
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: a writer, you know this, We're in that stage where

740
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 3: we've got a couple of paragraphs and the rest of

741
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,919
Speaker 3: the book is kind of blank pages, right, so we're

742
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 3: trying to figure out this saga together.

743
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 7: Hey, let's take a quick break right here, hear a

744
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 7: word from our sponsor, and then come back with more

745
00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 7: or hey, and we're back.

746
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 3: This is heading in the direction of science fiction. But

747
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: we had a very brief conversation in the past about

748
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: so called artificial intelligence or AI. So what do you

749
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 3: think about the idea that the future of space exploration

750
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 3: by humans doesn't involve actual humans? What if we create

751
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 3: some kind of inorganic sentience or very highly sophisticated algorithm

752
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 3: to be the next wave of astronauts. Is that a

753
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 3: possibility or how crazy? Like on a scale of one

754
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 3: to backcrap crazy?

755
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 6: What is this?

756
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 4: No, it's not crazy at all. I mean, I'm sure

757
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 4: whatever we're sending to space right now you probably use

758
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: this AI to some degree, you know, And even the

759
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 4: instruments we use and ASSAD I imagine use some AI.

760
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: It's being used more and more and even in science

761
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: and engineering. So it's not totally crazy at all. And

762
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 4: in fact, some scenarios that people paint are like, well,

763
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 4: maybe you can send one robot with like instructions to

764
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 4: land on an asteroid and make two robots and copy

765
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 4: the program, and then those two robots have the instructions

766
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: to go out there, look for an asteroid, mine it,

767
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 4: you know, get energy from it, and make two copies

768
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 4: of it, and then that's how you could maybe like

769
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 4: you know, see the whole galaxy for example, So it's

770
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 4: not not totally crazy.

771
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 3: No, should we be sending people into space.

772
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 4: I think if people want to go to space, they

773
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: should go. You know what, why not? I mean, you know,

774
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 4: if they know the risk and there's a lot of

775
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 4: people that want to have that experience and they like

776
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 4: I think that they open up volunteers to go to

777
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 4: Mars and thousands of people signed up, so you know,

778
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 4: I think it's part of human nature to be explorers

779
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 4: and to you know, want to find out what it's

780
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 4: like to be there.

781
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 6: Well, hot take, maybe I'm interested in yours.

782
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 7: The whole space tourism thing and this sort of like

783
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 7: upstairs downstairs of it all where it's like, you know,

784
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 7: a lot of folks that are going to space, like

785
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 7: the Katie Perrys of the world, are coming back and

786
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 7: acting like they've accomplished some great feat and feel as

787
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 7: though they should be looked at in the same way

788
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 7: as astronauts and scientists and folks that have trained their

789
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 7: whole lives to do that. And what they've done is

790
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 7: more or less taken a little joy ride out in

791
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 7: the space and back, and it really does seem to

792
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 7: kind of further drive this wedge between like folks with

793
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 7: lots of money and regular folks, and further maybe even

794
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 7: solidifies this idea of space not being.

795
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 6: For everybody, and that if anyone.

796
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 7: Were to colonize Mars, I don't know that folks like

797
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 7: you or I might get the invites. I'm just wondering about,

798
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 7: you know, your thoughts on the whole social aspect of

799
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 7: space travel, space colonization, and space tourism.

800
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

801
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 4: You know, I think these days, anything that gets people

802
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: excited about space or science or exploration, I think that's

803
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 4: all great.

804
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 5: That's good.

805
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: You know, whether or not, you know, getting to the

806
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 4: edge of the atmosphere counts to space, and whether or

807
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 4: not it should be something that only rich people can do,

808
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 4: that is the thornier kind of mindfield there, you know,

809
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 4: But ultimately, I think anything that gets people excited about

810
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 4: space is good.

811
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 7: I guess I would say that this whole thing that

812
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 7: Blue Origin did maybe had the opposite effect of that,

813
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 7: And I guess that's sort of maybe what I'm getting

814
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 7: at is this whole idea of like what maybe once

815
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 7: would have gotten people excited about space seems to have

816
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 7: blown up in the faces of the folks that sort

817
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 7: of staged this pr event and maybe had the opposite

818
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 7: effect and maybe made it seem a little bit more

819
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 7: like this sort of bougie tone death thing, and maybe

820
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 7: is making people look scants a little bit at folks

821
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 7: these private space travel companies. Just I don't know, Maybe

822
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 7: that's my two cents, but that is the way it

823
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 7: seems like people are reacting to that particular event.

824
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, for sure, I can totally see that too.

825
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 4: I guess one point of view against that sort of

826
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 4: downplane of those flights is that I think somebody told

827
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 4: me that they've only done like ten or eleven or

828
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: twelve of these things with people in it, and so

829
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 4: there is still kind of a significant risk for Katie.

830
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 4: There was a significant risk for Katie Perry and all

831
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 4: those folks to go up there. You know, Like I

832
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 4: don't know if I would go if I was only

833
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 4: the twelfth person to go on this airplane or the spaceship,

834
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like I always always like

835
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 4: a thousand people have gone.

836
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 7: Or you know, not that dissimilar from the folks that

837
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 7: got you know, imploded in that experimental deep sea you

838
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 7: know situation.

839
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, that could have been them well you know, but.

840
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 7: Then that deep sea thing, a lot of people were

841
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 7: like almost like they were rich people but maybe deserved

842
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 7: it or something. I'm not saying I think that at all,

843
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 7: but that was sort of the internet perspective. One of

844
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 7: the hot takes was like it was poorly planned, it

845
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 7: was really expensive.

846
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 6: It was sort of this like prestige thing.

847
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 7: But I'm with you or hey, I think you're right

848
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 7: about the how few attempts have been made, and so

849
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 7: anyone that's that's participating in it is taking their lives

850
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 7: into their own hands. And the question there then becomes

851
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 7: is that worth you know, reverence in some way or

852
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 7: is it just.

853
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 6: Kind of a little bit blind, you know, like risk taking.

854
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 3: You got to wonder about that, right, just the conversation

855
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,399
Speaker 3: you say, oh, well, how many times have we tried this?

856
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 3: And as you're getting into the ship, someone says eleven

857
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 3: of these went great, and then you say how many

858
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: and they're like, okay, well close the door.

859
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 6: Jolly good.

860
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: I am jumping and turning an to hear guys, hey, chim,

861
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: given your experience with and expertise in robotics, what do

862
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: you see as humanity's relationship with robotics, with synthetic you know,

863
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: pieces of a human with things like neulink. Where do

864
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: you see us going in the future.

865
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 4: I see us getting more and more and meshed with robots.

866
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 4: You know, it seemed like a fantasy when I was

867
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 4: a roboticist, just because the technology wasn't there. But I

868
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 4: was just reflecting recently on just even things that you

869
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 4: don't think about, like motors, Like the technology and motors

870
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 4: from the time that I was a roboticist to now

871
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 4: is has jumped, you know, several generations, several huge leaps.

872
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 4: You know, you can make motors so much stronger and

873
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 4: more efficient to the point where like a human sized

874
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 4: robot was sort of unthinkable in my time. But now

875
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 4: you know, there's like one hundred companies.

876
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 7: Question really quickly or robotics isn't Oh, it doesn't necessarily

877
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 7: have to include some kind of intelligence, and it can

878
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 7: just be like automated mechanized machinery that accomplishes tasks, right,

879
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 7: Like you know, like motors, that would be a form

880
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 7: of robotics if it were programmed in a way that

881
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 7: it would get an automated task.

882
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 5: Is that right.

883
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 7: I just want to make sure I'm wrapping my head

884
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 7: around the concept of robotics, and I'd love to hear

885
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 7: more about how maybe that concept has evolved since you

886
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 7: got started in it.

887
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

888
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 4: No, you're asking a very deep philosophical existential question that

889
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 4: all robotics is it kind of struggle with, like what

890
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 4: is a robot? Like can you call your car a robot?

891
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 4: You know, if it was a manual gear or even

892
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 4: if it's automatic, would you call it a robot? Or

893
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 4: does it need to have sentience or some sort of

894
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 4: program on it.

895
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 6: In the UK they call microwaves robot cooking.

896
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

897
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now microwas are super smart too. Now they

898
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 4: probably had to have AI agents like recognizing your food

899
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 4: and figuring it helping you figure it out.

900
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 7: Do you follow one side or the other on that

901
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 7: argument about what makes what makes a robot? Would love

902
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 7: to hear your thoughts on it, and that is interesting,

903
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 7: the philosophical kind of quandary of it all.

904
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

905
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 4: I mean I would say if it's totally remote controlled,

906
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 4: it's probably I wouldn't call it a robot, it would

907
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 4: just call it like a machine maybe, Okay, Yeah, but

908
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: if it's doing things on its own somehow, either mechanically

909
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 4: or through a computer program.

910
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 5: And then I'm pretty lenient what you call a robot?

911
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see it. Also, I think it's also a

912
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 3: good time to point out the fascinating etymology of the

913
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 3: word robot in the beginning, which itself was a I

914
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: think it was a check play from the nineteen twenties

915
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: that was automaton.

916
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 6: It was the term that was used robot was yeah, yep, sorry.

917
00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: Ben robot robot nick, right, is this term that already

918
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 3: entered into our language with some social baggage, right, with

919
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 3: some statements and some deep philosophical quandaries. So as this technology,

920
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 3: I love that you point out there are hundreds of

921
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 3: companies who are working on things that we could think

922
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 3: of as house assistant robots in some limited function. Would

923
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 3: you and your family ever consider acquiring one? Or like,

924
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 3: would you buy the twelfth one or would you wait

925
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: for a few thousands?

926
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 4: If I can get one to wash the dishes for me,

927
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 4: I would tomorrow.

928
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 3: The worst.

929
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you know, if it could do yeah, things

930
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 4: like that. I would love to have a robot. Dude,

931
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 4: I guess I have a dishwasher, but they still have

932
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 4: to unloaded or hound my kids.

933
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 6: To they basically got a free wash them.

934
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 5: I mean honest, yeah, right, yeah.

935
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 3: And we see it too with it seems like the

936
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 3: at least the current the current speculation I've been reading

937
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,720
Speaker 3: about both in private industry and academia, seems to argue

938
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 3: that a normalization or proliferation of robots in some way

939
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 3: is inevitable as the economy scale kicks in, prices decrease,

940
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 3: they become more affordable, and they also seem to I

941
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 3: love your dishwasher example. The argument also seems to be that,

942
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 3: similar to the Rumba, the new home robot assistants will

943
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: be specifically geared for certain tasks, starting like in a kitchen,

944
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 3: or starting with medical assistance. You know, picture the TV

945
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: commercial I've fallen and I can't get up. Would you

946
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 3: agree with that? And kind of dovetail on Matt's earlier question,

947
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 3: how far do you think the prevalence of robotic assistants

948
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 3: will go?

949
00:52:59,440 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 5: Oh?

950
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,240
Speaker 4: Boy, I think it probably depends on obviously your income level,

951
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 4: you know, and also where you live in the world.

952
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 4: You know, if it's much more economical for you to

953
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 4: hire someone down the street to wash dishes, then then

954
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 4: that seems like a better situation because then two people

955
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 4: benefit from that, right, and it's supposed to one person

956
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 4: and a robot.

957
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 7: I do wonder though, like where, you know, a lot

958
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 7: of the problems that we run up against when we're

959
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 7: talking about mechanization and roboticization and involving you know, artificial

960
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 7: intelligence or machine learning in tasks, is where is that

961
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 7: cut off? At what point are we going to pump

962
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 7: the brakes and say no, no, no, we want to

963
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 7: replace these tasks that we have deemed to be menial

964
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 7: and not worthy of human involvement without throwing out tons

965
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 7: of jobs and and things that people rely on for

966
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 7: their economic well well being to protect and to to

967
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 7: you know, feed and and raise their families. Because it

968
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 7: seems to me like there's really no way back, because

969
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 7: the technogy is out there, and the nature of economics

970
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 7: and the nature of capitalism is such that if it

971
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 7: can be done, someone's going to do it, and someone's

972
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 7: going to sell it. I just I don't know, do

973
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 7: you have any philosophical thoughts around that?

974
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's sort of the history of humanity

975
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 4: is always taking inside of automation and efficiency and and

976
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 4: you know, letting people figure out other jobs that they

977
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 4: can do, you know, if it's cheaper to use robots.

978
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 4: But you know, most of our cars are made using

979
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 4: robots too, and people are getting operated on sort of

980
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 4: by robots now. Yeah, and so it's all it's all coming,

981
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 4: and it's all I think, it's not probably not going

982
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 4: as fast as people maybe imagine twenty years ago.

983
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 6: There's always a backlash.

984
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 7: I mean even historically you've got like the luttites and stuff,

985
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 7: people smashing printing presses and you know, backlash against industrialization.

986
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 7: So it's really no different than that. And I'm not

987
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 7: coming down on one side or the other. I think

988
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 7: to your point, it is absolutely just a product of

989
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 7: human vanity and just the nature of progress and all

990
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 7: of that. But if you look back, even like people

991
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 7: were very upset about the idea of the synthesizer, people

992
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 7: you know, in orchestras, thought it was going to replace them.

993
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 7: But what ultimately happened was people figured out how to

994
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,439
Speaker 7: use synthesizers to make sounds that an orchestra couldn't make.

995
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 7: And I think that's the neat part about all of

996
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 7: this stuff, is figuring out those other things.

997
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 6: But it doesn't entirely get rid of the fear that

998
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 6: a lot of.

999
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 7: Folks have about, you know, being supplanted, you know, by

1000
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 7: these types of technologies.

1001
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 6: So I don't know the answer. I just it's a

1002
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 6: tricky one.

1003
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 7: And I think you've you've pointed to that and everything

1004
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 7: that you said, and I appreciate them.

1005
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And all those ethical concerns are one of

1006
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 4: the reasons that know a cartoonists and a podcaster.

1007
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 3: Well, with that, there's so much we want to get

1008
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 3: to that we may not be able to get to

1009
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 3: in our time today. But I can hear some folks

1010
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 3: in the crowd right now immediately asking a question that

1011
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 3: I don't I don't think we've gotten to previous conversations.

1012
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: With the rollout normalization of robots, where does society land

1013
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 3: in its relationship to a surveillance state? You know, like

1014
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 3: that's the reason a lot of people have the it's

1015
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: the old joke about engineers, dude, you know it from

1016
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 3: Georgia Tech too. A lot of engineers, if you go

1017
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 3: to their house, they're going to avoid smart devices, right.

1018
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 5: Right, right?

1019
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Well, but you also don't want to be

1020
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 4: the person wearing the tinfoil, you know, Yes.

1021
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the issue, right, there's like a fine line

1022
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 7: between being the lutte, being the person that's getting left behind,

1023
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 7: being the person shouting at clouds or whatever, or smashing

1024
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 7: printing presses, and being someone that's completely blind to the

1025
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 7: potential negative aspects of.

1026
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 6: A lot of this stuff.

1027
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 3: So my question then directly is should people be concerned

1028
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 3: of increased surveillance with smart devices robot nicks in their

1029
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 3: hole or is that kind of much ado about nothing?

1030
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 4: You know, I think if you're someone with ill intent,

1031
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 4: you know, if you're a criminal, if you're someone who

1032
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 4: wants to do bad things, then you probably should be worried.

1033
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 4: My personal point of view is, you know, if you're

1034
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 4: not doing anything that bad and you still have some

1035
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 4: space where you have complete privacy in your home or

1036
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 4: things like that, or you're able to switch these things off,

1037
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 4: and generally I think it can be helpful. You know,

1038
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 4: there have been several cases here in Stufn, California, if

1039
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 4: people like going missing, but then they were sort of

1040
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 4: found or tracked through people's ring cameras or traffic cameras,

1041
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 4: and so those kinds of things can also be sort

1042
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 4: of useful.

1043
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 7: I think that's where I fall on it. I've always said, like,

1044
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 7: I don't really have anything to hide. I'm not that concerned.

1045
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 7: I think the benefits outweigh the negatives for me personally.

1046
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 7: But I know that that's not the way other people

1047
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 7: might feel about it. But I am with you on

1048
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 7: that one, and I think that that's a really good point,

1049
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 7: that the triangulation, the pinging, finding folks that maybe never

1050
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 7: would have been found otherwise. There's always a double edged

1051
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 7: sword to that kind of surveillance state aspect of things.

1052
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,439
Speaker 2: How is the Department of Homeland Security gonna know you're

1053
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,200
Speaker 2: not a threat if they can't know what alphabet ads

1054
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 2: should be served to you? So they got to listen

1055
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 2: in and you know what card purchases shout talent, go boundary.

1056
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: It's all helpful.

1057
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, well honestly, yeah, obviously anything can be abused, I think, right, yeah,

1058
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: I definitely don't want it to be abused.

1059
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 2: Please please don't continue abusing it.

1060
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 3: Please shout out to our hapless n Essay in turn, Steve,

1061
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 3: thanks for putting in the work man the.

1062
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 2: Best or Hey, we're we all love science fiction and

1063
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: we assume you also appreciate it. We we love out

1064
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: there things that are hilarious like Rick and Morty huge

1065
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 2: fans of that kind of thing, but also something you know,

1066
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: like Prometheus and the Alien franchise. Is there anything that

1067
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 2: we maybe have missed in the science fiction universe that

1068
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: you could put us onto or anything we should be watching,

1069
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: like a series?

1070
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 6: Anything oh interesting?

1071
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I can point out to the usual

1072
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 4: things like Black Mirror or the Expands, but maybe something

1073
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 4: your listeners have been heard about is this book called

1074
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 4: Simbulacrum three and this was published in the sixties and

1075
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 4: it's basically what most people think of as the first

1076
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 4: novel with this idea that we might all be living

1077
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 4: in a simulation neat So this was way way back

1078
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 4: in the day when you know, computers were the size

1079
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 4: of a building they could processes like ones and zeros

1080
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 4: in a card. But even then there was this writer

1081
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 4: who was thinking about, like, wait a minute, what if

1082
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 4: we're all just programs? And it's a really true to

1083
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 4: be booked because it's like about this ad executive who's

1084
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 4: programming this simulated city as a as a kind of

1085
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 4: a test bed for like testing out you know, marketing ideas,

1086
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 4: slogans and things like that. I mean, little by little

1087
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 4: he realizes that maybe he's not real himself.

1088
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 6: This is very Philip K. Dick ask I like it right.

1089
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 4: Right is sixty, very forward looking, very twisty.

1090
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 7: And speaking of four looking, y'all might have heard this

1091
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 7: as well. But I believe finally William Gibson's Neuromancer is

1092
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 7: getting a proper adaptation into a series. And I know

1093
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 7: that's a big one in terms of futurists and the

1094
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 7: idea of cyber space.

1095
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 6: I think was coined in that. And I know Ben

1096
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 6: you're a big fan.

1097
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 7: But I did just see news the other day that

1098
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 7: that's that got greenlit, So that'll be interesting because I

1099
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 7: have not read the book, but I need to.

1100
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 6: But thank you for Similarchrum three.

1101
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, wonderful three.

1102
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: I'm putting it on the list. That's awesome. That was

1103
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 3: a great question, Matt, and we have we have another

1104
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 3: question for you or hey, as we're as we're wrapping

1105
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 3: up today, we cannot thank you enough for being so

1106
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 3: generous with your time. Where can people learn more about you,

1107
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: learn more about science stuff, and learn more about your

1108
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 3: many other projects.

1109
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm on social media and all the platforms.

1110
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 4: Just search for PhD like the Greek comics, and then

1111
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 4: you'll see me posting things about my uh the TV

1112
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 4: show I have on PBS Kids, to the book series

1113
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 4: I have for kids called Oliver's Great Big Universe, to

1114
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 4: this awesome podcast I have with my heart now call

1115
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 4: Science Stuff One word, and every week we answer fascinating

1116
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 4: questions like is it a good idea to get crygentically

1117
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:44,439
Speaker 4: frozen hard?

1118
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: Yes?

1119
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 4: About the water, the way water expand oh no, that

1120
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 4: there's a twister, Ben, it's not about It's not about

1121
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 4: the water expanding. A lot of people think it's like

1122
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 4: that's what kills you, but it's not.

1123
01:01:58,640 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 3: We have no.

1124
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 6: No, let's for the episode.

1125
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 5: Listen to the episode.

1126
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 3: There we go, Well that that is fantastic? Is or hey,

1127
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 3: cham please check out the podcast Science Stuff. Please get

1128
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 3: the to the website. We are not blowing smoke. We

1129
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 3: are tremendous fans. And now we have to call it

1130
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 3: a day because I think we have to figure out

1131
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 3: what's going on cryogenic freezing. You know that that's going

1132
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 3: to stick with me. I totally thought it was the water.

1133
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 7: But if you want to find out, do tune into

1134
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 7: that episode of Science Stuff.

1135
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks, guys. I'm a big fan of y'all as well.

1136
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 6: Same appreciate it, brother, Thanks Lore.

1137
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 3: And that was or hey cham as We've said, not

1138
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 3: to sound like a broken record, but we really dig

1139
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: this guy. And if you want to pick his brains.

1140
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 3: For more historical aspects of brain science, of quantum mechanics,

1141
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 3: the history of the Big Bang, check out our two

1142
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,919
Speaker 3: part interview series with Orge on Ridiculous.

1143
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 6: History Indeed and meantime.

1144
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 7: If you want to check us out all over the Internet,

1145
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 7: you can do so at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

1146
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 7: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where

1147
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 7: it gets crazy, on xfka, Twitter, and on YouTube where

1148
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 7: we have videos for your perusing enjoyment. On Instagram and TikTok. However,

1149
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 7: we're Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1150
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 2: We also have a phone number. It is one eight

1151
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:27,720
Speaker 2: three three st d WYTK. When you call in, give

1152
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know within the

1153
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 2: message if we can use your name and message on

1154
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 2: the air. If you've got words to send us, maybe links,

1155
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: maybe images, whatever, why not send us an email.

1156
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1157
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

1158
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 3: rights back. Love a good book recommendation. If you've got

1159
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 3: something really out there, send it our way. We'll meet

1160
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 3: you a little past the light. Out here in the

1161
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 3: dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1162
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1163
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1164
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.