1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Body does, but Joseph's gotten more. My grandfather, who I 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: referred to as papau and interestingly enough, my grandchildren refer 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: to me as Papa, and it's a badge I wear 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: with great pride. I loved both of my grandfathers, but 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: there was one in particular that I spent a lot 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: of time with as a child, and he was a big, big, 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: robust man. He raised horses and mules, farmed, and then 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: worked for the power company. In addition to that, he 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: was always busy doing something. He was a man that 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: was essentially afraid of nothing, at least in my young eyes. 11 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: But I remember in nineteen eighty three, I hadn't seen 12 00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: my grandfather and I don't know, probably two years, and 13 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: I went to visit him in his home in the 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: Louisiana and when I did, he was a shell of 15 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: his former self, metasac brain cancer had literally eaten him alive. 16 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: He still recognized me, though, and we spent hours talking. 17 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Cancer is something that you hate any you hate to 18 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: see anybody go through, and it's there's this ominous feeling 19 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: that you get when you get that diagnosis. I've had 20 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,919 Speaker 1: other members of my family that have died as well 21 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: from cancer. But just imagine, if you will, a case 22 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:58,279 Speaker 1: so sinister that a cancer diagnosis pales when it comes 23 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: to the truth of what acts actually happened to a 24 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: woman who was alleged to have had terminal cancer, but 25 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: yet she disappears off of the face of the planet. 26 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks David. You know, 27 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: I've always thought, I've always had it in the back 28 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: of my mind. You can call me a conspiracy theorist. 29 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: I don't care. I've always had in the back of 30 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: my mind that there is a cure for cancer out there, 31 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: and it's just it hasn't come about. I think probably 32 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,239 Speaker 1: for monetary reasons. That's what it comes down to. I 33 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole. 34 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to get you fired up today, but 35 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: I see it and I see you know, I've seen 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: the you know, as a death investigator particularly, I've seen 37 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: the end results. You know. I've had to go to 38 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: many homes or people have passed away that had cancer 39 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: and they may have died for other reasons, but they 40 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: had cancer and there's that withering and it's so sad 41 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: because it's slow march that goes on. And you know, Dave, 42 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: it's something when you can actually find a case that 43 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today where you know, cancer 44 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: plays in this diagnoses of cancer plays in to the narrative. 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: But it's, like I said in my opening, this is 46 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: something even more sinister, I think than cancer. 47 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: Using cancer as the explanation for where a person has gone, 48 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: might have gone, why they're missing, because that's what actually happened. 49 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: Seventy six year old Jackie Glenn is missing, and any 50 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: person of that age that just goes missing. And in 51 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: this case, she has children, adult children, she has three 52 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 2: grandchildren that call her Yaya, and they want to know 53 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: where she is. And her husband, who is stepfather to 54 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: her adult children, tells them, well, she's recently diagnosed with 55 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: cancer terminal and you know, maybe she just decided to 56 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: go away. I mean, it was a very flimsy excuse 57 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: and by the way, easily checkable for those of us 58 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: which who have a family member or maybe you yourself 59 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 2: have suffered from cancer, to use that as this placeholder. Oh, 60 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: it's just despicable. 61 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: It's hard, you know, I say, I use this term 62 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: a lot. It's really hard to plumb the depths of 63 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: how of how sickening this is. And you talk about verification. 64 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: In my experience working for a medical examiner's office and 65 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: we have to deal with cases involving cancer where for 66 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: any number of reasons, you might be requested by family 67 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: to do an autopsy and they're they're asking you to 68 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: examine the body in the post mortem state to see 69 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: if the diagnosis was accurate. Because I don't know if 70 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: folks are aware of this. Many times it's very hard 71 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 1: for a family to convince a hospital pathologist to do 72 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: an autopsy. They don't lean into the practice as much 73 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: as they did at one point in time. And so 74 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: I've been involved both as an autopsy assistant and as 75 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: an investigator in cases of cancer. And when you see 76 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: these ravaged bodies, you know that come before you and 77 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: you're doing this, and it's as a as an observer 78 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: first off, as you know, as an employee at a 79 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: medical examiner's office, you see the pathology that's before you, 80 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: and you see the progression that has taken place. As 81 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: a family member that has gone through this, it really 82 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: it's a real kick in the head if you will, 83 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: that someone would take this and use it to essentially 84 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: offer up a reason why this woman would disappear off 85 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: of the face of the planet. Now, this happened actually 86 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: up in Nashville. This has been an ongoing case for 87 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: some time. But you know, thankfully the family has some 88 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: resolution now. But Dave, here's something I'd like to ask about. 89 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: I think I think that at some point along the 90 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: way what they referred to as a silver alert was 91 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: issued relative to this poor woman. Is that correct. 92 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: That's what they do with seniors that go missing, and 93 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 2: different than an amber alert, And the silver alert is 94 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: something that we see when it applies to an older 95 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 2: person who has gone missing. And in this case, I 96 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 2: actually was looking at the terminology. You know, it's to 97 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: me it's a fairly new one. It could have been 98 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: around for a long time. I don't remember. I just 99 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: know that I've just certainly picked up on it. 100 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is new, or I think you're right, brother. 101 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So they issued the silver warning or warning 102 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: bullet bulletin rather sorry, the silver aller was issued, says Joe. 103 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 2: The silver aller says, please help us find Jackie Glenn 104 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: seventy six, last scene January first, at her Abbot Martin 105 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: rode home and you know, she drives this car and whatever. 106 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: Very simple, but she's missing. They don't give an explanation 107 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: as to what's going on in her world or anything 108 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 2: else at this point, though, I'm gonna be honest, Joe, 109 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 2: I wonder how quickly police were onto this, and I 110 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: think it was fairly early on because as they're investigating, 111 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: the first person they're going to talk to is going 112 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: to be the spouse in this particular case, seventy year 113 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: old Joseph Glynn, and he's going to tell them what happened, 114 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: which is all fresh. It's happened January first. Okay, January 115 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: first is when they issue the silver alert that she's missing. 116 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: And it didn't take long for all this to turn 117 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: around very quickly because the family, first of all, their 118 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: stepfather is telling them she has terminal cancer and went 119 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: somewhere to be herself maybe, and they didn't buy it. Look, 120 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: let me give you atle background on Jackie Glenn. This 121 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: is a very accomplished woman. Joe I was amazed by this. 122 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: She basically had two major careers. Very educated by the way. 123 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: She actually earned her bachelor's degree from Peabody College of 124 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: Education and then later earned a master's degree of marketing. 125 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 2: Her two careers first one was spent in education. Her 126 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: focus was on helping children that were on the spectrum, 127 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: children who had learning issues and things like that. That 128 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: was her passion. Joe, can you imagine what type of person. 129 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 2: I have a niece that does this, and I know 130 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: she's very special in being able to deal with these 131 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: children helping them. Look, that was Jackie Glynn. And then 132 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: she decided to follow her next step, which was as 133 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: a wedding planner, a party planner, a marketing person. That's 134 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 2: what she did. She's got this educated, full time career 135 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: and decides all right, time for something new. And she 136 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: is a very successful wedding event benu planner. She actually 137 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: opens up Riverwood Mansion, very successful. And she likes to travel, 138 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: so she would take the girls. You know, I say 139 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: the girls meaning could be sister's granddaughter, anybody, but female trip, 140 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: you know, like we would do a guy trip, you me, 141 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: And well, they did girl trips. And these girl trips 142 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: weren't too chatoogie river to go fishing. It was They're 143 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: going to Tuscany and France and Ireland and you know, 144 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: just these huge trips that she would find. I mean, 145 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: this was a very special woman for a lot of people, 146 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: and just reading a about her, I'm thinking, what a 147 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: heart she has for people. And to hear that she's 148 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 2: been diagnosed with a terminal illness, terminal cancer and has 149 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: just vanished the family was like, that's not the mother 150 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: the grandmother that I know. 151 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I tell you, Dave, that's a basic element 152 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: in an investigative procedure. And a woman that is this 153 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: outgoing and that has so many people kind of orbiting 154 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: her sphere. You know, when you think about the lives 155 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: that she's contacted, first off as an educator and then 156 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: my gosh, wedding planning, he real is how many people 157 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: you have to come in contact with with that profession. 158 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: And it's not like she's completely disconnected from her family 159 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: if she's doing these are very intimate moments that she 160 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: has where she's going abroad. I mean, all you gotta 161 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: do is pack into a hotel room with somebody, or 162 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: on a cruise with somebody for a couple of days 163 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: or a week, and you get to know them very well, 164 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: and plus you've already got familial attachments. How in the 165 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: world would anybody think that they could put forth this 166 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: idea that she is dying of a terminal diagnosis and 167 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: that no one would have heard peep from her about this. 168 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: That's what's so striking about this day. To me, at least, 169 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: it's very I think you'd use the term it's a 170 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: very thin kind of excuse, and it's easily explored. The 171 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: thing about cancer diagnoses is that if you have family, 172 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: many times families are in on decisions that are made. 173 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about like end of life things. 174 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: What I'm talking about is how are we going to 175 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: coordinate getting someone to and from treatment. That is a 176 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: big part of terminal illness with cancer. The reason is 177 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: is that treatments that they offer weak in the body 178 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: so much that you're as weak as a newborn kid, 179 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: and afterwards not to mention your markedly sick as well. 180 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: So it requires like several people many times to do this. 181 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: Most of the time it's going to be a family member, 182 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: somebody in your intimate circling. As you had mentioned this 183 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: husband of hers, the stepfather to her children. He would 184 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: be the first point of contact we would want to 185 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: explore with because he's already put this narrative out there 186 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: invested from an investigative standpoint. He told her children specifically 187 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: that she has been diagnosed and that she has and 188 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: this is kind of the curious thing. In consultation with 189 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: her physician that is treating her, she's going to go 190 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: make these end of life decisions, which again is very 191 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: very ominous, and of course the trail eventually goes cold. 192 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: The fact that her husband would offer up this information 193 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: to her children that their mother has made a decision 194 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: about end of life preparations per her physician is somewhat ominous, 195 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: and of course the trail goes cold. They have no 196 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: idea where their mother is. So Jackie Glenn Dave is 197 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: married to this man, Joe Glenn, and he has put 198 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: forth this idea that Jackie is involved with what he 199 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: names as a support group. And here's kind of the 200 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 1: chilling thing, so that she could die on her terms 201 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: and she just vanishes off the face of the planet. 202 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: And it's at that point in time that you know, 203 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: I think that the children, you know, they suspect a'rat here. 204 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: They have to because after the silver alert is issued 205 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: and she's they're looking for a car, her car, and 206 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: it's like a twenty ten rab four SUV with Tennessee plates. 207 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: Now I see these cars on the road, But have 208 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: you ever have you ever gotten startled awake in the 209 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: middle of the night by your phone going off with 210 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: one of these alerts. It makes me jump out of 211 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: my skin almost when these things go off. And the 212 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: first time you hear one of these things, and it's 213 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: generally for an Amber alert a missing child, it blasts 214 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: out this message that they're looking for a specific vehicle. Now, 215 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: I've had these go off in the day, and I 216 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: can catch myself when they give a vehicle script on these, 217 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: my head gets on the swivel. I start seeing these 218 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: cars everywhere, and I'm thinking, you know, is this is 219 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: this the you know, is this the person that's missing? 220 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: Or in most cases with Amber alerts, many times it's 221 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: some kind of domestic beef between a mom and a 222 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: dad and the mom or the dad have snatched the 223 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: kids and they're running off with them, and of course 224 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: you're going to be looking around you. You're kind of 225 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: hyper aware, if you will. But nothing developed from this. 226 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 2: Dave I started looking about how would the family would 227 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: how would Jackie's family react to stepfather giving them these 228 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: intimate details of her life when he's he's not their dad, 229 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: you know, for the grandkids that they know him as 230 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: papa or whatever. 231 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: You know. 232 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: But they've only been married twenty four years, Jackie Glenn 233 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: and Joe Glenn, So I say, only you know, twenty 234 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: four years. But she's seventy six, so that means she's 235 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: in her early fifties when they marry, an established entrepreneur, educator. 236 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: And so. 237 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: I don't know how the family felt about Joseph Glenn. 238 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: I do know that they did not bite hook lion 239 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: sinker on his story that she has terminal cancer, is 240 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: in a support group and has just abandoned everybody she 241 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: loves and cares about, going against everything they know about 242 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: her as their mother and grandmother, and just takes off. 243 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: So police immediately are talking to Joseph Glenn, and it 244 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: takes no time at all to talk to a doctor. Hey, Joe, 245 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: terminal cancer, who's your doctor? This is not a heavy 246 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: lift figuring out you know what happened? And it's the police. 247 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: They're calling the doctor. No, you can't share a lot 248 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: of information, doctor, But she's missing, and husband's suggesting that 249 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: maybe she has taken off because she doesn't want to die. 250 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: In front of her family or something. What do you 251 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: suspect is going on here? Well, I suspect that if 252 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: he doesn't have cancer? Really yeah, yeah, they couldn't the doctor. 253 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: The doctor said, I'm not treating her for this. And 254 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: that's that's what makes this so ridiculous when you begin 255 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,479 Speaker 2: to think about it, because this is this is a 256 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: specific diagnosis. This is not this is not some kind 257 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: of thing that's kind of floating out in the ether. 258 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: Uh. This is very specific because before doctors will actually 259 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: make a diagnosis like this, there's all kinds of testing 260 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: that you go through. You can have certainly extensive blood 261 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: work that's performed. If there is a tumor that they 262 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: suspect as a tumor, they're going to go in and 263 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: do a section of that, perhaps maybe a fine needle 264 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: aspiration or one of these things, and first off, they're 265 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: going to see if this is the primary tumor. They're 266 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: going to see if it's you know, perhaps has metastasized 267 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: somewhere else. And not to mention all of the imaging, Dave, 268 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: So we're we're not talking about a process where you 269 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 1: walk into a doctor's office and you've got a raging 270 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: head cold and they see you, they might do a 271 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: head X ray for whatever reason. I don't know why, 272 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: but they're going to say, this is probably an advanced state. 273 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: You've got an advanced case of sin. You sidis here, 274 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,719 Speaker 1: We're going to put you on some antibiotics. Here's some decongestion. 275 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: It's not that passive. This is something that involves multiple people. 276 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: But I can tell you who I think smelled a 277 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: rat with this and this is this is actually Jackie's son, 278 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: because you know he I think, if I'm not mistaken, 279 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: he had an app that he had access to that 280 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: could track her phone everywhere window he. 281 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: Has life three sixty and they're able to because immediately, 282 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 2: well we got to find her, and he steps up 283 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: and says, well, I've got this app, let's try that. 284 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: And it led them to odd driving patterns of Joe Glenn, 285 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: not Jackie Joe, and it didn't take the investigators long 286 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: to bring Joe in and sweat him. Got to find 287 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: out what happened, Joe tell us. And that's where based 288 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: on the information and Joe, You've been much more involved 289 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: in this than I have. At the investigative level, what 290 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: are we looking for because we are in the first 291 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 2: couple of days. She missing on January first, and they're 292 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 2: talking to Joe that week, Joe Glenn, the husband. What 293 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 2: condition are we expecting to find her body in at 294 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: this stage of the game, assuming she's dead, are police 295 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: going to do that? Or in talking with this husband, 296 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: are they going to assume he killed her already and 297 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: she's gone. I mean, he's not hiding her. Why would 298 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: he hide his own wife? Where are they going to 299 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 2: Are they going to jump to any conclusions here? 300 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know that they necessarily jump to conclusions, 301 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: but they're going to target, you know, again, an intimate 302 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: They're going to target that person that has acts in 303 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: control or potential access and control over the life of 304 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: somebody that they share a home with, that they're in 305 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: an intimate relationship with. And one of the first things 306 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: that you want to do is to if she's not 307 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: at the house, if they have thoroughly searched that property 308 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: gone from stem discern there, you have to ask yourself, well, 309 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: does Joe Glenn have any other property? Are there any 310 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: other locations that he might frequent where she could be 311 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: Because you're seeing this movement and electronic forensics is fascinating 312 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: if you think about this phone kind of pinging about 313 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: and it's traveling in tandem perhaps with his you get 314 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: this idea that he's going to know where she was 315 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: lasting alive, and you've got these things traveling in tandem, 316 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: and that's very hard if you're a suspect. That's very 317 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: difficult to explain away. Reflecting back to the young airman 318 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: from the Air Force that had gone to the Mennonite 319 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: Mennonite compound, I think I think it was New Mexico 320 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,439 Speaker 1: where this occurred, and he kidnapped the young Mennonite woman 321 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: and you could see their phones traveling in tandem down 322 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: the road, and of course he winds up killing her 323 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: and burying her back in Arizona, and that's very hard 324 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: to escape. I think as far as circumstantial evidence goes 325 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: that you know, because you're still in the mode as 326 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: an investigator, you're still in the mode that this is 327 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: a missing person, okay, up to a point. Now you 328 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: can when you begin to hear what he is saying 329 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: to try to explain it away, it becomes progressively more 330 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,719 Speaker 1: ominous and dark because you know that she just doesn't 331 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: vanish merely off the face of the planet. You're wondering, well, 332 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: if you have, if you've been traveling with her, or 333 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: at least her phone, how is it that you came 334 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: to be in possession of her phone? Why is it 335 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: that she would drop completely out of contact in order 336 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: to go get this care that she was seeking per 337 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: her physician, with her support group. Because once you get 338 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: caught up in that lie, the intensity of the light 339 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: that you're going to be under relative to the cops 340 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: is going to brighten all the more, and they're going 341 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: to look into every comment that you've made, every movement 342 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: that you've made, any other peripheral statements that you may 343 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: have mentioned to family members, co workers, anything like that. 344 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: So that's going to put them in a position where 345 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: they're going to zero in on you. And I think 346 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: that the big question. And I know, and you know, 347 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: I hate why, But let's just say what what would 348 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: have been his motivation for lying about this? What would 349 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: be his motivation to essentially make her vanish off the 350 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: face of the planet. And that's what the police are faced. 351 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: With, Dave. Interesting that the family totally shocked to their core. 352 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: Interesting in that they were involved with helping the police 353 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: determine who the victim is in Jackie Glenn, what type 354 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: of individual she is? What would they expect? And they're 355 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 2: talking about this, you know, in such a way that 356 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: the police really know that she didn't leave, and they 357 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 2: are able to as you say, they zero went on 358 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: Joe Glenn. And once they get Joe Glenn in a 359 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: room and they're hitting him with Okay, buddy, you said 360 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 2: she's got terminal cancer. She doesn't. We've tracked her phone 361 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 2: with you and you're making all these tracks. Now granted 362 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 2: it see your own property that you own, but still, 363 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: why are you doing all this when your wife supposedly 364 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: is missing? And he has no explanation. So Joe, it 365 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 2: doesn't take long for Joe Glenn to cough up to 366 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 2: the investigators what they're looking for. And as far as 367 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 2: interviews with police go, the ones that I tend to 368 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: see are are the crazy ones where somebody's trying to 369 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 2: lie their way out of a jam. Rarely do we 370 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 2: see an interview or hear of an interview that goes 371 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 2: like this one. Did Joe? 372 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And in very short order, the police were 373 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: able to determine what had happened to Jackie Glenn's body. 374 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: But Dave, when I tell you what he had done 375 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: to her and with her. It's going to send a 376 00:24:50,560 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: chill Danner spine. My wife and I travel quite a bit, Dave, 377 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, generally short trips. I mean, we do take 378 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: trips overseas every now and then. It's generally work related, 379 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: but I like to have my grandkids with me and 380 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: so we don't stray too far away from the American South. 381 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: Go to the beach in the South, go the mountains 382 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: in the South, that sort of thing. But one thing 383 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: I never could quite get right, even as a young father, 384 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: was one of those luggage carrier things that you have 385 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 1: to strap to the roof of a car. I don't 386 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: know what it is. I guess I was intimidated by 387 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: them always and I always bottom used so that we're 388 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: probably always busted every single one that I had, and 389 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: I had a tough time kind of getting things arranged. 390 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: But Dave, I got to tell you, you know, when 391 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: the police began to interview this man and he made 392 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: this big reveal regarding Jackie, it led the police to 393 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: a location where he had actually disposed of her body, 394 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,719 Speaker 1: and he used a very unique method, I think, and 395 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: one of the things that kind of trips criminals up 396 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: many times in regards to the burial of a body. 397 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: It didn't they recover her remains on property that Joe 398 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: Glenn owned. 399 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: To back up, Joe Glenn admitted to killing her. Just 400 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 2: so we know, Joe Glenn confessed to police. They hit 401 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 2: him with all this evidence they've you know, as we 402 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,479 Speaker 2: were mentioning a minute ago about his travels with Jackie 403 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: that the cancer nothing makes sense. Joe tells what happened, 404 00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: and at first he tells them what he did to her. 405 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: And you and I deal with Nancy Grace on her show, 406 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: and you do so many other shows. We oftentimes talk 407 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 2: about when a person begins to plan a murder, and 408 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: you know, there's always that moment of when they decided 409 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 2: to go for it, and it could be in the 410 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 2: blink of an eye. Right, We've heard that, and you know, yeah, 411 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, but anyway, he can't Joe, as he explains 412 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: how he killed his wife of twenty four years, he 413 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: can't claim it was just spur of the moment. Got 414 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 2: into an argument and I grab what was nearest and 415 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 2: started bashing because weeks before he killed his wife on 416 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: January first, and the day the missed the silver missing 417 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 2: alert went out three weeks before then. He had a 418 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,239 Speaker 2: guy digging a trench out on property. They owned a 419 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: big trench, and he also bought a plastic tarp and 420 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: he bought a couple of other things that came into 421 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 2: play when he kills his wife on January first. So 422 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 2: the idea that he had this planned out ahead of 423 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 2: time kind of lays out before you. It's not like, Joe, 424 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: I can't believe what happened. We got into really horrible 425 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: argument and I just I was so mad and I 426 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: hit her with a hammer. I can't even say that 427 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 2: he planned it by the ditch, by the arm, Dude, 428 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: he beat her to death with a hammer. 429 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, no. And this is, you know, we talk 430 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: about many times in cases, this factor of premeditative events, 431 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: where there's a lot of planning involved in this. And 432 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Many people will be very meticulous about 433 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: what they're going to do with an individual. I think 434 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: that until they're actually faced with with what the future 435 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: holds for them, it's like they don't give that consideration. 436 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: But they'll go through these stages. Do you realize what 437 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: it would take to have somebody come out and trench 438 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: out an area on a piece of property. And this 439 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: is this piece of property that they owned is essentially 440 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: in it's a there are multiple lots around this area 441 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: where you're going to have home builds that are going 442 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: to go in. And that's a big piece of property 443 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: and it's outside of Nashville. He specifically asked someone to 444 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: trench this area out. Now here's problem one. Now you're 445 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: involving a separate subject. Okay, you're involving this individual to 446 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: help you, and they might not be aware of it. 447 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: Help you facilitate a crime. Okay, and you can do 448 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,959 Speaker 1: this without knowing it. You know, man owns the property 449 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: wants me to come out and trench something out. Okay, Yeah, 450 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: that's what I do. I've got the equipment. I'll tell 451 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: you what my hourly rate is. And you paid me 452 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: and done and done. 453 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: The fact alert on your phone and you're like, hey, 454 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 2: I know this guy. 455 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: I know exactly the car. Yeah, that's got to be 456 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: just absolutely terrifying. So in this he had gone to 457 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: great links to plan first off, where he was going 458 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: to place a body once he wound up killing his wife. 459 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: And then I've been thinking about to Steve and I'm 460 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: wondering does he stop midstream throughout all of this, after 461 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: he's gone through all these elaborate steps to facilitate this, 462 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: and he's thinking, oh my gosh, now what am I 463 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: going to tell everybody? How do I explain that that 464 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: she's vanished at this point time? Oh, I've got it cancer, 465 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, And so that pops into his mind and 466 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: this is the most expedient thing that he can do 467 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: relative to this. But Dave, you know, once they started 468 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: putting pressure on him, you know, I think that she 469 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: died on January the first, twenty twenty four, and they 470 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: wind up within four days of recovering her remains. So 471 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: he spilled all of the beans, all of the work 472 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: that he had put into this. But you know that 473 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: you talk about that it was you know, you think 474 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: people think, well, what could have driven him to rage 475 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: like this? Well, this was not a reactionary event, Dave. 476 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: This was not a reactionary event because you think about 477 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: hammer and you think, well, we got into a fight. 478 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: As you had mentioned, you pick up the closest object, 479 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: which we refer to as a weapon of convenience, and 480 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: then you begin to attack somebody viciously. Because hammer attacks 481 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: are beyond the pale. No, he had been thinking about 482 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: this weeks in advance. He had time. This is the 483 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: tough part. He had time. If you're going to kill somebody, 484 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: you know, why is it I'm using the word why. 485 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: What would mean your motivation for doing it in such 486 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: a brutal manner? Do you not have a web you're 487 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: planning it out? If you're planning yeah, so you know. 488 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: To me, this indicates a lot of anger. This is 489 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: a blunt force trauma that he is exacting upon this 490 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: woman when he beats her to death with this. Now, 491 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: once you do this, what are you going to do 492 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: with their body? And that's that's the odd thing about this. 493 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: And I see this lots of times in what we 494 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: refer to as a clandestine burial. By the way, I'm 495 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: actually teaching a class this semester at Jacksonville State called 496 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: clandestine burials, and this fits right in with the narrative 497 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: that we see. You just never know what perpetrators are 498 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: going to do with human remains. And I've seen this 499 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: in my career as well. You know, Dave he this 500 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: idea of cocooning a body. It's one of the big 501 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: gifts for someone in forensics that a perpetrator can do, 502 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: because he took the aforementioned tarp that you'd mentioned and 503 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: wrapped her body in it, and then in this trenched 504 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 1: out area, he took a luggage carrier for a car 505 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: and entombed her body in that and then pushed everything 506 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: in on top of it to cover the body. Now 507 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: I can tell you this when you show up at 508 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: a clandestine burial site. One of the things you're looking for, 509 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 1: as far as we have two things that we talk about. 510 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: We talk about the topography and we talk about the taphonomy. 511 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: And so the topography is essentially the lay of the land. 512 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, is it a flat space, does it rise? 513 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: Does it fall? Then you have taphonomy, and that goes 514 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: into this idea of the changes in the soil, the 515 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: configuration of soil. Are you impacted by erosion, water? You know, 516 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: So you have to have a mix of all of this, 517 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: and then you analyze the scene. This is such a 518 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: fresh dig that there's no way that you would have 519 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: like and plus it's wintertime in Tennessee, by the way, 520 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about in January, so you're not going to 521 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: have like little sprigs of grass growing up you're going 522 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: to be looking at bear Earth what they refer to 523 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: as recently turned to earth, and it really, you know, 524 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: it's one of these moments in time where you would 525 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: if you could take this guy aside and look at 526 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: him and say, does your mind work? You know, what's 527 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: the deal with this? Why would you go to these 528 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: links that you went to? And then you're going to 529 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: roll over because you know Dave, he actually wound up 530 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: rolling over on this case. He rolled over to the 531 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: point where they were able to not only find her body, 532 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: but this guy takes the weapon, which is a hammer, 533 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: and places it into a dumpster, so the police are 534 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: actually able to recover this weapon. And that we've heard 535 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: the term smoking gun. This is a blood soaked hammer, 536 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,439 Speaker 1: if you will. It's going to have some element, some 537 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: trace element on it, whether it's blood or hair. You're 538 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: talking about multiple blunt force impacts to the skull, and 539 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: it's the card's principle. Every time you take that hammer 540 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: and you impact it onto the skull, you're talking about 541 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: drawing away blood that's on the surface. After you've broken 542 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: the skin with this massive laceration, You've got hair that 543 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: is probably attached to the head of this hammer, because 544 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: blood is so tacky and you're traumatizing the scalp to 545 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: the point where you're literally pulling hair out. That I've 546 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: even seen cases with blunt force trauma where you will 547 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: have bits of tissue and I'm not talking about like brain, 548 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about skin that will attach itself to 549 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: the surface of the weapon, and it can be any 550 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: number of types of weapons. So he actually gifted the 551 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: police with these evidence rich elements that he had, and 552 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: he went so far as to preserve the body because 553 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: not only is she in this plastic encasement that you 554 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: would normally put luggage in and tied to the top 555 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: of your car when you're heading down to Florida with 556 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: your family, he's got her wrapped in a tarp. So 557 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: any kind of trace, forensic evidence, like a person to 558 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: person contact, that's not going to dissipate. And she's been 559 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: in the ground for such a very very short period 560 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: of time that they're not going to have to fight 561 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: a lot of decompositional changes with Jackie's body. 562 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 2: Dave, and I did want to ask you about that, Joe, 563 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 2: want to play one thing out very quickly. On top 564 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: of everything you just outlined investigators found a note, a 565 00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: handwritten note that Joe had written down about his to 566 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 2: do list. He actually had written down items that he 567 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 2: needed to pick up, including a hammer and a tarp. 568 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: He wrote this down before again going back to premeditation. 569 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 2: It wasn't just all of a sudden boom, it was 570 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 2: I need these items. He also planned on items of 571 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 2: hers that he was going to sell very quickly too. 572 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 2: For whatever reason, I don't know, but I wanted to 573 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 2: ask you, Joe, because we know according to Joe Glenn, 574 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: he killed her on January first, he buried her the 575 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 2: next day. With how much deterioration would occur in her 576 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 2: body in that period of time of less than twenty 577 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: four hours at her age? And by the way, does 578 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: age have anything to do with how quickly a body 579 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: breaks down? 580 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,919 Speaker 1: No, it really does. That's an excellent question. I don't 581 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 1: think of ever had anybody asking me that question, but yeah, 582 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: it is. It is fascinating when you think about it. 583 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: You would think that that perhaps your chronological age might 584 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: have some kind of impact on the progression of decomposition 585 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: a body. It really doesn't. Uh. Now, if you're if 586 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: you're more robust, muscular with muscularly that might have some 587 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: impact relative to the presentation of something like Roger Mortis. Okay, 588 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: but when we're you know, and we just did an 589 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: episode recently they where we talked about decompositional proceeds in 590 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: a micro sense, and but we're talking about now, we're 591 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: talking about macro where where it's a broader or broader 592 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: scope where you're looking for deterioration in a body. You're 593 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: not going to see a lot of that at all 594 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 1: with her body at this point in time. And here's 595 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: another piece to this, which I think is significant, because 596 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: not only she been concooned and encased, she's been she's 597 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 1: in a subterranean state where she's buried. And you've got 598 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: a coolness that's set in. Remember, I mean, obviously Tennessee doesn't. 599 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: It's not like permafrost or something that you would see 600 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: in northern Minnesota or in Alaska or Canada. But you're 601 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: talking about the soil temperature. The ground temperature is very 602 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: cool as well. So that's going to aid in the 603 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: preservation of the remains. You're not going to see a 604 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: lot of decay in the body. What I'm fascinated by, 605 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: I think is what are they going to find at 606 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: the scene as far as elements that can be tied 607 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: back directly to this husband. Are there any kind of 608 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,320 Speaker 1: instruments that he may have used at the scene that 609 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: that facility helped him facilitate finishing up this area that 610 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: he's dug out. Here's one more thing that I don't 611 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: know if think about this or not. You're talking about 612 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: plastic here. You're talking about a plastic covering and this 613 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: travel case. 614 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: Guess what. 615 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: I'd like to know how long he's owned this thing, 616 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 1: because if this is a recent purchase, you might find 617 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: other people's fingerprints on this. They're not going to be deteriorated, 618 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 1: particularly on the interier. If he's grabbing the interior to 619 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: lid and like lowering it down, this is probably going 620 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,399 Speaker 1: to be It might be slightly textured, but it might 621 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: be a non poor surface. You would be able to 622 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: recover fingerprints from the underside of this carrier. And in 623 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: addition to this, this is a plastic tarp. You could 624 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 1: actually take that tarp and fume it with like super 625 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: glue perhaps, and you would be able to determine if 626 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: in fact this was something that he had had his 627 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: hand on. 628 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 2: And oddly enough, a lot of the forensic stuff won't 629 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 2: even come into play because Joe Glenn actually surprised us. 630 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Joe Glenn actually admitted to killing his wife, 631 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: beating her to death with a hammer, and then taking 632 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: her body and wrapping it, placing it into this car carrier, 633 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: and then placing the entirety of all of those elements 634 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: into a pre dug hole. I think that we can 635 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: conclude that Glenn knew what he was looking at. He's 636 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: looking at the police having this huge collection of evidence 637 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: that is going to point directly at him. But I 638 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: can tell you this. On Wednesday, August the twenty eighth, 639 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: Joseph Glenn pled guilty to the charge of first degree 640 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: murder and he has now been sentenced to life. I'm 641 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags