Speaker 1: Hey, guys, what's up? Was good's copping? You're listening to
Speaker 1: exactly a mod I? Thank you so much for downloading
Speaker 1: and subscribing. I am so grateful to you guys. You
Speaker 1: guys have made this one of the littlest podcasts out
Speaker 1: here right now, and it's thanks to you. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to rate us five stars. Share this podcast um with
Speaker 1: your friend, your family, gonna the important part is to
Speaker 1: share it. This show is gonna be a little bit
Speaker 1: interesting because these type of topics. Meg, I don't know
Speaker 1: I can connect to these topics because cheeter, cheeter, punkin eater,
Speaker 1: anything that has to do with monogamy and stuff like,
Speaker 1: you know, relationships. I like all those topics because I
Speaker 1: feel like we're consistently, especially in this generation, trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what exactly is love, what exactly is being
Speaker 1: in a relationship, what exactly is staying together? How much
Speaker 1: ship are supposed to put up with? What are you
Speaker 1: supposed to let go? What? How does this work? Are
Speaker 1: you supposed to be like an open relationship because there's
Speaker 1: so many options thanks to technology. Should we be more
Speaker 1: loyal to each other? Are we still loyal to each
Speaker 1: other and we're open about being with other people. I
Speaker 1: don't know. This is confusing, this is hoo much for me.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. Anyways, today I am
Speaker 1: so grateful to bring an amazing guest. My guest today
Speaker 1: is a sex researcher. She's a speaker, a writer, and
Speaker 1: her name is Dr Jena Mammon and Jonna. Where is
Speaker 1: this name from? I love it from Macedonia from you know,
Speaker 1: I like it? Well, you know what, I'm curious to know.
Speaker 1: What made you become a sex researcher. I thought that
Speaker 1: sexuality was the most fascinating topic I could possibly study, Like,
Speaker 1: couldn't think of something that would keep my interests for
Speaker 1: the rest of my life when I was deciding what
Speaker 1: PhD topic to choose, Obviously, does that make you a
Speaker 1: little bit freaky? Is that what you're saying professionally? At
Speaker 1: least a little bit? Okay? Okay, it might be a
Speaker 1: bit more than a bit okay. Well, no, I was
Speaker 1: interested actually in if you want to call them freaky,
Speaker 1: the more sort of uncommon are unusual expressions of sexuality.
Speaker 1: That's what I went to study. I wanted to study
Speaker 1: non heterosexuality, so the people who are not completely straight
Speaker 1: or have at least some interest in other genders. I
Speaker 1: wanted to study casual sex, sex outside of the confines
Speaker 1: of a long term romantic relationship. I wanted to study
Speaker 1: non monogamy, like these pairings and relationships that are not
Speaker 1: exclusive sexually or romantically. I wanted to study kink, so
Speaker 1: all of these things that are kind of on the
Speaker 1: most and all that freaky stuff, Yeah, the stuff that
Speaker 1: it's hush hush, but that are so much part of
Speaker 1: who we are, that makes us the humans that we are.
Speaker 1: And what I was really curious about is how do
Speaker 1: people who have these I guess less acceptable, more stigmatized,
Speaker 1: sometimes less common, although not always, some of these things
Speaker 1: are not less common, Like our desire for non monogamy,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty common desire, but it's not an acceptable desire.
Speaker 1: And so my curiosity was always how do people who
Speaker 1: have these desires that are on the margins of what
Speaker 1: society says is okay? How do we navigate our lives?
Speaker 1: How do we get our sexual needs met while existing
Speaker 1: in a society that says you shouldn't have those needs? Well,
Speaker 1: because we're well, because society basically tells us that we're
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be loyal to each other, and that
Speaker 1: loyalty means that it's supposed to be just you and
Speaker 1: me and me and you till the end of time.
Speaker 1: So basically, like, if you're in a relationship, you're only
Speaker 1: supposed to stake it to me for the next you know,
Speaker 1: sixty eight years, And we all know that's a damn lack.
Speaker 1: That is the damn Does watching porn count as cheating
Speaker 1: for some people? That's something that everybody has to decide
Speaker 1: for themselves. There are so many of these behaviors that
Speaker 1: are kind of in the gray zone. And you ask
Speaker 1: on a survey, you ask a bunch of people, is
Speaker 1: watching porn cheating? And some people will say yes, and
Speaker 1: some people always will say no, and there is no
Speaker 1: one right answer, Like every single person in a relationship
Speaker 1: needs to decide whether their partner watching porn. Do you
Speaker 1: consider it to be cheating? For myself, no, absolutely not.
Speaker 1: I watch I love watching porn with my partners. I
Speaker 1: love watching porn in my own I know they're watching
Speaker 1: porn on their own. We share videos that we like.
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think watching porn is cheating.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually healthy to a certain extent. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna tell you why I feel the watching overdo it.
Speaker 1: You can definitely overdo you can overdo it. You can
Speaker 1: also by watching these porns, um create this like fat
Speaker 1: see this fake concept of what sex is supposed to be,
Speaker 1: and that's not necessarily true. Let's when we watch these porns,
Speaker 1: let's also understand that they're getting paid for this one two.
Speaker 1: There's a whole camera crew in front of them. And
Speaker 1: have you ever been to a porn set and friends
Speaker 1: who are porn? But they haven't, they haven't the advertisement
Speaker 1: to my girls, shout out to Angelina Castro. She's my
Speaker 1: friend and at one point in time, a long time ago,
Speaker 1: she does porn, and she invited me to a set
Speaker 1: and I went and after I saw it is definitely
Speaker 1: not what people think. I know that in the moment
Speaker 1: what you're horning, you're looking at and you're like, women
Speaker 1: put so much pressure on themselves trying to compete with
Speaker 1: these women that they see on these porns. Anyways, that's
Speaker 1: a whole different conversation. But what you said is true
Speaker 1: that watching porn can, especially if you don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of real life experience of what real sex looks
Speaker 1: like what real human bodies look like and can do.
Speaker 1: You can, especially if you watch a lot of porn,
Speaker 1: then you can definitely build a fantasy and instead of
Speaker 1: expectations that can be not really be and it can
Speaker 1: really humanize you from your partner. Every relationship has their
Speaker 1: standards or limits, and they decide what's accepted and what
Speaker 1: is not right. What I will say, though, is you
Speaker 1: can choose to be monogamous. Right. You can choose to
Speaker 1: be with a relationship with someone that is completely sexually
Speaker 1: exclusive and romantically exclusive so you don't have other partners.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean some of these desires that humans have
Speaker 1: for other partners will just magically go away. And so
Speaker 1: if you then also restrict things like porn or masturbation,
Speaker 1: or maybe even things like flirting with others kind of
Speaker 1: innocently flirting with others, or being able to see and
Speaker 1: appreciate another person as a good looking person, if you
Speaker 1: expect your partner to really suppress all of that, that
Speaker 1: might be too much for humans because we can maybe
Speaker 1: not act on some of those desires. We can certainly
Speaker 1: say I've committed to monogamy, Therefore I'm not gonna actually
Speaker 1: make out with someone else or have a relationship with
Speaker 1: someone else, but to not have those desires at all,
Speaker 1: we can't really have that. Okay, so you gave great
Speaker 1: points right now in order to be in a you know,
Speaker 1: I guess, a healthy relationship. Yeah, you can't. You can't
Speaker 1: like um, you can't watch porn. You can't masturbate. Ding
Speaker 1: ding ding ding ding. Question, is masturbating considered cheating? Again,
Speaker 1: for some people, it is. I've talked to people who
Speaker 1: have thought of it as cheating, who when they found
Speaker 1: out their partners were masturbating, really upset. Most people, I think, don't,
Speaker 1: And again I would recommend even even if you have
Speaker 1: a lot of jealousy and it's really hard to hear
Speaker 1: about those things. It's okay you don't share that necessarily
Speaker 1: with your partner, but accepting that they unless they are
Speaker 1: very low on sex drive and very low on their
Speaker 1: need for sexual novelty. You know, these traits exist in
Speaker 1: a continuum, just like anything like extroversion or intelligence or
Speaker 1: whatever have you. You don't exists on a continuum. Some
Speaker 1: people are really low. Some people are like very very introverted, right,
Speaker 1: Some people are very very extroverted. Most people are somewhere
Speaker 1: in the middle. I remember used to date this guy
Speaker 1: Trash and he was so nice and everything, but when
Speaker 1: it came to like doing it, I used to be bored.
Speaker 1: So then even if he was at the house, I
Speaker 1: would do myself. And then I kind of fell back
Speaker 1: because I was like, damn, I have a whole piece
Speaker 1: of dick right here in the house. Am I not
Speaker 1: supposed to just, you know, do it with him because
Speaker 1: I like him, we're together, that we're you know, And
Speaker 1: then I just felt more comfortable to be connected with
Speaker 1: with myself. That can also become a problem, and talking
Speaker 1: about that before we get into the monogamy and cheating
Speaker 1: and all these things, I just want to hit a
Speaker 1: couple of points that are maybe considered cheating for some
Speaker 1: and not for others before we go there. I want
Speaker 1: to emphasize something that you just said. You know, you
Speaker 1: were dating someone that you were not having good sex with,
Speaker 1: right right. But I loved him. He was great person
Speaker 1: great personality, He had all the great characteristics, better when
Speaker 1: it came to the freaky part. Okay, So my advice
Speaker 1: if you want a monogamous relationship, yes, if you want
Speaker 1: to long term monogamous relationships insexs is important to you
Speaker 1: if those two things describe you, right, you or anyone there,
Speaker 1: you have to be with someone that you really want
Speaker 1: to suck oh my god, because sometimes the ones you
Speaker 1: want to fucking got no job, and then the ones
Speaker 1: that you got a job, they're danggling is whack? Is?
Speaker 1: You know? It's hard to find exactly, It's hard to
Speaker 1: find someone who meets all of these different needs, which
Speaker 1: is why if you want to be partnered with someone
Speaker 1: who you like for other reasons, but the sex is
Speaker 1: sort of a okay or not great, then having a
Speaker 1: monogamous relationship is going to be really hard. That means
Speaker 1: you're never really gonna get that like real sexual satisfaction
Speaker 1: that you want. So either you pair up with someone
Speaker 1: that you have an okay sex with that everything else
Speaker 1: is great, and then you have some form of an
Speaker 1: open relationship. And there are many many different forms that
Speaker 1: these open relationships can can take that would work for you.
Speaker 1: You said open relationship, What the hell does that mean?
Speaker 1: Can mean a lot of different things. Still, a lot
Speaker 1: of different people break it down for the ones that
Speaker 1: don't know, okay, So open relationships can take a couple
Speaker 1: of different forms. There are a couple of the most
Speaker 1: common forms. Either you and your partner played together. Okay,
Speaker 1: we played together, so you may have a threesome every
Speaker 1: now and then or a foursome every now and then.
Speaker 1: Judgment free zone, judgment free zone. You know that in
Speaker 1: my mind, I've always wanted to do an orgy in
Speaker 1: my mind, but okay, in the real life, I cannot,
Speaker 1: but bodkay. First of all, I'm a lady, So what
Speaker 1: you said I wouldn't do it because my lady, do
Speaker 1: ladies not have orgies? Is not what I'm sure that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ladies that have orgies, that's right,
Speaker 1: I just haven't met one yet, love, and I need
Speaker 1: to meet one. Gammity. I mean, I had an orgy
Speaker 1: and they were like twenty of them. They all stabbed
Speaker 1: me with it in my ass, akil and Nadi, in
Speaker 1: my ears, everywhere, and I loved it. So that's a gaining.
Speaker 1: That's not an orgy. That's a gang bang. Oh as
Speaker 1: a gang bang. I can't forget that. You're the professional one.
Speaker 1: You're the one that knows all orgies. Usually when you
Speaker 1: have a mix of genders and and everybody does each
Speaker 1: other more even mix of gender. Not necessarily everyone does
Speaker 1: each other, but there's more of a mix in terms
Speaker 1: of the gender ratio, whereas a well, you just described
Speaker 1: like twenty guys and a woman, that would be a
Speaker 1: gang bang. No no, no, okay, not a gang bang.
Speaker 1: Not a gang bang. I would rather an orgy. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. Out of all the craziness
Speaker 1: and other things that you have obviously learned, experience, research
Speaker 1: and everything, what has been the biggest or weirdest discovery, Like,
Speaker 1: what has been something really weird that you actually found
Speaker 1: out in your study? Oh? Lord, there are a lot
Speaker 1: of different things, and once you study human sexuality for
Speaker 1: as long as I have, nothing really is weird because
Speaker 1: there's so many different interests that we have. But I
Speaker 1: want you, I want to go back because we didn't
Speaker 1: finish the previous question. You asked me to back down
Speaker 1: open relationships, and yes, you then went to the most
Speaker 1: extreme version of it people. So I want to bring
Speaker 1: it to the most common version that people might experience
Speaker 1: or might experiment with, which is just one extra person.
Speaker 1: So usually like the big threesome. Threesome. Yeah, we know
Speaker 1: from research that the that the most common sexual fantasy
Speaker 1: that Americans have is that is a threesome, but it's
Speaker 1: more I'm guessing it's more popular because it's also seen,
Speaker 1: um and I'm not going to be like a whole
Speaker 1: super late extra feminist, but I know there's also seen
Speaker 1: more acceptable to have two women and a man than
Speaker 1: two men and a women. I'm guessing that's the most
Speaker 1: common one, right, that's true, that's the most common one
Speaker 1: for men. So about something like men often will say
Speaker 1: throesome with two men two women is appealing, and for
Speaker 1: women it's more mixed and more it's more of those
Speaker 1: women who say they are interested in the threesome, it
Speaker 1: can be fifty fifty often in terms of which type,
Speaker 1: whether they would prefer to men and a woman or
Speaker 1: two women and a man. But but so that's one
Speaker 1: version is when you and your partner can play together
Speaker 1: with other people. The other version of a relationship is
Speaker 1: when you let each other play separately, so you go
Speaker 1: on dates or play play dates or whatever separately, and
Speaker 1: then you share come together and you share something with
Speaker 1: your partner about those dates. There's a third version of that,
Speaker 1: which is you go and see people separately and you
Speaker 1: don't really talk to each other about it. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: would probably be me. Don't tell me what you did
Speaker 1: to that other bitch, because you know what, as a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, that's it. We're breaking up. It's over.
Speaker 1: I can't do it. I don't know there's I have
Speaker 1: two mixed emotions. Ladies, hit me up on the exactly
Speaker 1: amount of let me know how you feel if you
Speaker 1: agree with me or not, but I have to I
Speaker 1: have mixed emotions. One, I would love for you to
Speaker 1: tell me how it went, what you did, whatever, so
Speaker 1: that I feel like I'm connected and I was part
Speaker 1: of that experience and I don't feel like I'm left out. Two,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know because then I feel like
Speaker 1: what about it? Be like them more with her? What about?
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what's going on. I don't
Speaker 1: want to feel insecure about it. So maybe we you know,
Speaker 1: we had a free hall pass. We both went and
Speaker 1: did a freaking stuff. We come back and like it
Speaker 1: never happened. We're good. Um. I think that also in
Speaker 1: a person like myself. Kay. I know him a bad
Speaker 1: bitche first of all, but I believe still that woman
Speaker 1: said of me, it can bring some sort of insecurity
Speaker 1: where it can make me feel like, um, a lot
Speaker 1: of times, look at it goes, it goes past a
Speaker 1: sexual part and then you're back at having sex with
Speaker 1: this person. What are the chances lalinaesa that now it
Speaker 1: went from just sex, so now I really actually like
Speaker 1: this person. Yeah, that's a very valid concern, very very
Speaker 1: valid concern. And couples who decide to do this to
Speaker 1: open up in some way, shape or form, they especially
Speaker 1: if they're being intentional about their relationships, they devise and
Speaker 1: talk about, Okay, how are we going to make sure
Speaker 1: that whatever sexual things that happened don't turn into something more,
Speaker 1: because when they turn into something more, then we're talking
Speaker 1: about polyamory. You can decide those things again, you can
Speaker 1: agree on those things with your partner that you're not
Speaker 1: going to do that, that you're not going to develop
Speaker 1: these whatever these flings or kind of casual interactions, that
Speaker 1: you're not going to develop them into something more. And
Speaker 1: it's not always possible, but we humans. You have some
Speaker 1: control over whether we feed a relationship or start a relationship. Right,
Speaker 1: so who has more control? Men or women? I would
Speaker 1: probably say men do because and I'll tell you why,
Speaker 1: because they've been encouraged to do that a lot more
Speaker 1: over the last like ten thousand years of human history
Speaker 1: than women have. Women have been forbidden entirely from having
Speaker 1: any kind of sexual interactions outside of their husbands, whereas
Speaker 1: men have often been allowed to have either sex workers
Speaker 1: on the side or mistresses on the side, concubines, you know,
Speaker 1: in almost society for the last ten thousand years since
Speaker 1: agriculture happened. So the human species has has had a
Speaker 1: very different history before agriculture. When we were nomads, when
Speaker 1: we were gatherers, were kind of kind of you know,
Speaker 1: roaming around, being mobile and not living in any one
Speaker 1: given place, and that was a very long period. There
Speaker 1: was millions of years, several millions of years that we
Speaker 1: lived kind of like that. And then about ten thousand,
Speaker 1: twelve thousand years ago, agriculture happened. We started to live
Speaker 1: sedentary lives. The roles of men and women changed and
Speaker 1: became much more powerful than women because during hunter gatherer times,
Speaker 1: men and women were a lot more equal in terms
Speaker 1: of bringing home the bacon, if you will. Everybody brought
Speaker 1: home the bacon. And I think that we're even now,
Speaker 1: we're getting closer back to that, but we're not fully equal,
Speaker 1: but we're on the right track. And because we're on
Speaker 1: the right track is exactly why we're having this conversation
Speaker 1: right now, because you need women to have freedom to
Speaker 1: pursue other partners as well as men in order for
Speaker 1: us to be having these kinds of conversations. Otherwise, you know,
Speaker 1: women were leave to be a sexual. I mean, there
Speaker 1: was a time just about hundred hundred fifty years ago
Speaker 1: in Victorian England, which then got transported into the US
Speaker 1: norms as well, where literally scientists believe that women are
Speaker 1: just not very sexual, that they were a sexual beings,
Speaker 1: they just did sex for their husband's pleasure because we
Speaker 1: were so suppressed. To be honest, there is a certain
Speaker 1: extent of that, and I don't, Oh my god, you
Speaker 1: know that here in exactly amount. I'm an open book
Speaker 1: and I tell you everything, whether it sounds good or bad.
Speaker 1: But I thought for two seconds that I too was
Speaker 1: a sexual. And I'm gonna say it in this in
Speaker 1: this perspective only because um, I also think it's a
Speaker 1: cultural thing. I don't know if you've ever heard this, Latina,
Speaker 1: when you're with a man, you have to please him. Young, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're upset on your you know, if you're happy, you're
Speaker 1: upset or whatever, you still gotta lay there and spread
Speaker 1: it because if you don't do it, So, no matter what,
Speaker 1: the phone must be on the table and the food
Speaker 1: must also be in the bed. Sometimes, just because you
Speaker 1: have to please your your your spouse, your partner, it
Speaker 1: doesn't always mean that your horny, that you want it,
Speaker 1: do you whatever. A lot of times, just because you're
Speaker 1: dangling is hard and you're ready to go, doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that I'm ready the same way women need to be.
Speaker 1: They have to be come okay, may like you know,
Speaker 1: so those me okays, me slap my ask do something.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times they also feel that the
Speaker 1: fact that we don't have good sexual communication affects women
Speaker 1: a lot sexually. And it also makes you feel like
Speaker 1: you don't have a sexual drive, which you might have.
Speaker 1: It's just that your your partner may not be doing
Speaker 1: it properly. Do you agree? Yeah? I do agree. And
Speaker 1: an average, you know, when you look at that spectrum
Speaker 1: that I talked about in the sex drive and this
Speaker 1: bell curve in which it's distributed, it's both like not
Speaker 1: for men and women, just for men a little higher
Speaker 1: than for women on average, but in addition to that,
Speaker 1: you're right that women often need a bit more stimulation
Speaker 1: and they also what we're learning now, more and more
Speaker 1: women's sex drive needs a bit more novelty needs to
Speaker 1: be Men's sex drive seems to be kind of more
Speaker 1: steady and less less susceptible to external factors, like it's
Speaker 1: gonna be there no matter what. Whereas women it's they
Speaker 1: give me something to get, give me something good to
Speaker 1: get aroused by. Money I can work or something. Okay,
Speaker 1: give me something limp la casa, wash the cargo. Thanks
Speaker 1: to change, physical things change, physical attractions change, people, mature,
Speaker 1: people change the the vision that they had of the
Speaker 1: things that used to be attractive to them may no
Speaker 1: longer be attractive. People grow, and that's I think that's
Speaker 1: another thing, UM, that we also have to be understanding.
Speaker 1: When it comes to being in a relationship with someone,
Speaker 1: you have to be able to grow with that person, UM,
Speaker 1: and understand that things will change. You can't continue to
Speaker 1: look at this person like the way that you met
Speaker 1: them a thousand years ago, and you know what before.
Speaker 1: Because I know that our time is limited and I
Speaker 1: can talk about this all day, I want to talk
Speaker 1: about something really important, UM, especially now in two let's
Speaker 1: talk about cheating. Let's talk about cheaters. Based off your research,
Speaker 1: why do you think people cheat? People cheat for a
Speaker 1: lot of different reasons, but ultimately it boils down to two.
Speaker 1: Either they're not really happy in the relationships, sort of
Speaker 1: not getting what they need, and that could be something
Speaker 1: sexual that they're not getting, or it could be something
Speaker 1: more emotional that they're not getting and they're seeking it elsewhere.
Speaker 1: Or they just need something novel and different, exciting, like
Speaker 1: the adventure exactly on the side. So they're happy with
Speaker 1: the relationship and they don't want to end it in
Speaker 1: any way, but they just need this little bit of
Speaker 1: extra excitement and excitement. I understand. For the most part,
Speaker 1: a lot of men feel that they need a little
Speaker 1: bit of excitement. They don't want to leave. They don't
Speaker 1: want to leave, you know, you know their main chick.
Speaker 1: They just want some excitement, you know, um, something different.
Speaker 1: It's like if you have rice and beans every day,
Speaker 1: one day you want to eat something else. My thing
Speaker 1: is exactment, And I was about to say that my
Speaker 1: thing comes into like, Okay, you need some adventure. Can
Speaker 1: I have some adventure too? Because that's what happens. Men
Speaker 1: come out year and they cheat and they do all
Speaker 1: of this one little chick. Oh, the world's gonna fought apart.
Speaker 1: That's a problem. So that you're like, you're a whore.
Speaker 1: You cheated on me up, But in the meantime you've
Speaker 1: already stuck your dangling to like half the neighborhood. You
Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head. Girl, That's exactly the
Speaker 1: issue that because we've had this whole history. But you
Speaker 1: also have to understand put it in this historical perspective. Right,
Speaker 1: we literally have twelve thousand years of cultural consciousness and
Speaker 1: evolution and history and baggage where men did get to
Speaker 1: have their cake and nita to they get because look,
Speaker 1: we all as humans, not all, there's some differences, not
Speaker 1: every single one, but most of us have a strong
Speaker 1: desire and need to pair bond to form these deep,
Speaker 1: long lasting, committed, loving, caring, trusting, dependable relationships with other people.
Speaker 1: We That has helped us survive evolutionarily. That was very
Speaker 1: useful to have another person who was strongly bonded with you,
Speaker 1: and especially if you were having babies, to help you
Speaker 1: raise those kids. And oh no, girl, because I'm doing
Speaker 1: minds by myself. Well, yeah, I did the bonding, and
Speaker 1: too said, I got to raise it on my own.
Speaker 1: But I hear you. Yeah, unfortunately for a lot of
Speaker 1: people that way, but that has generally speaking held humans right.
Speaker 1: So we have the strong need to bond. At the
Speaker 1: same time, we also have and distributed in this bell curve,
Speaker 1: this need for variety and adventure and excitement and risk,
Speaker 1: and so we have these dual needs inside. Now. Men
Speaker 1: for the last all thousand years have been able to
Speaker 1: get both of their itches scratched. They got to marry
Speaker 1: and have the stability and the family and all that,
Speaker 1: and they got to have their concubines and mistresses and
Speaker 1: all that. Women didn't. Really, I mean, women still get
Speaker 1: stoned to death in part to the world if they've cheap,
Speaker 1: literally stoned to death, buried to their necks and then
Speaker 1: stoned to death, and so so unfortunate. So that we
Speaker 1: still carry that baggage, men and women still carry that baggage.
Speaker 1: And so I think the challenge of the twenty first century,
Speaker 1: and especially I think now that we're coming into this,
Speaker 1: I think this year is special. After the pandemic, I
Speaker 1: think the pandemic really made a lot of things clear
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, and I think this will
Speaker 1: the challenge will be for men to start applying a
Speaker 1: single standard. That's right. I agree with you a thousand percent.
Speaker 1: If men are okay with sticking, they're dangling a lot
Speaker 1: of times. They don't even use condoms. Guys, use condoms.
Speaker 1: Protect yourself. That's crazy. Out here in the streets. I
Speaker 1: know a lot of beautiful women get stampo put red,
Speaker 1: not cover it, wrap it up. If you can't find
Speaker 1: a condom, you better use at least a garbage bag.
Speaker 1: Don't come out here sticking it. Get a garbage garbage backs,
Speaker 1: stretch it out and wrap it up like they used
Speaker 1: to do back in the days to maintain. It's tough
Speaker 1: out here in these streets. Better. The point is, don't
Speaker 1: be sticking it anywhere and the girl in your house
Speaker 1: you come, stick it to her, elimit. Don't do that.
Speaker 1: And the same thing goes to women. Women, Protect yourself.
Speaker 1: I feel like, look, you guys go out here and
Speaker 1: you have sex with women. Men. Women should have the
Speaker 1: ability to do the same thing if they so choose to.
Speaker 1: I personally am not necessarily good at that. If you
Speaker 1: are that girl that you're cool with having different sexual partners.
Speaker 1: Main do you be free live your best life. Two? Now,
Speaker 1: the question is can you forgive a cheater? Can you
Speaker 1: forgive someone that has cheated on you? So, my definition
Speaker 1: of cheating would be doing something that your partner specifically
Speaker 1: has asked you not to do or there is an
Speaker 1: understanding that that would be considered cheating, and that can,
Speaker 1: as we talked about, that can varies for someone, that
Speaker 1: could be masturbation for someone in an open You can
Speaker 1: still cheat in an open relationship because open relationships have
Speaker 1: rules and agreements, and if you break one of those
Speaker 1: rules and agreements, that would be considered cheating. Like if
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know, don't have sex with my
Speaker 1: best friend, and my boyfriend had sex with my best friend,
Speaker 1: then that would be considered cheating, even though it's okay
Speaker 1: for him to have sex with many other women. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, that's how I would I would define it.
Speaker 1: But can you forgive again you You're gonna have to decide.
Speaker 1: It depends. There are people who forgive cheating. There are
Speaker 1: people who absolutely do not forgive cheating. I work with
Speaker 1: a lot of clients, I have a lot of couples
Speaker 1: who have recovered from an episode of cheating or even
Speaker 1: a long love affair, have understood kind of where it
Speaker 1: came from, what caused it. How can we change something
Speaker 1: in our own relationship, in our own marriage so that
Speaker 1: that that kind of stuff does not happen again. For
Speaker 1: some people, they've resolved that by opening up. For some people,
Speaker 1: they've resolved it by changing something about how they do
Speaker 1: their own sex life. Yeah, there's many ways you can
Speaker 1: try to go around it. Basically. Yeah, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: we have different expectations of what is sort of forgivable
Speaker 1: or not forgivable. I'd be curious to hear your audience
Speaker 1: and what them would forgive. I want to know, because
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. If you're my man, and
Speaker 1: I put in all this work to have you to
Speaker 1: get and I build you up like build a bear, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I build you up, you think I'm gonna leave
Speaker 1: you so that other bitch can have you? Hell nah?
Speaker 1: So what that being said, I also believe that I'm
Speaker 1: being back in the days are great great grandparents and
Speaker 1: our ancestors used to have these like long ass relationships
Speaker 1: for many many years. Every person that you talked to
Speaker 1: that has had a long marriage will always tell you
Speaker 1: you have to be patient. You gotta pretend like you
Speaker 1: don't see certain things, you don't hear certain things, and
Speaker 1: you have to move on through certain things. Right if
Speaker 1: you leave someone every time that they cheat on your
Speaker 1: every time, I'm not saying that you're not supposed to
Speaker 1: have standards. I'm just saying, is it possible for us
Speaker 1: to work things out? How bad was it? Like if
Speaker 1: you've been with me and you have like a whole
Speaker 1: five year relationship with someone else, and you have a
Speaker 1: whole family on the set and everything, okay is a
Speaker 1: wrap but different that's a different thing. But how bad
Speaker 1: was it? Can we recoup from it? Is there something
Speaker 1: that I can do to fix it? Can you do
Speaker 1: something to fix it? Like? I think that these days
Speaker 1: were so quick to end relationships and end things, we
Speaker 1: no longer work things out. But this conversation has been
Speaker 1: so good. Okay, I really feel like we need to
Speaker 1: part two to this, don't you feel? Yes? Absolutely, there's
Speaker 1: so many things to talk about. We definitely need a
Speaker 1: part two. That's a great point that you made, that
Speaker 1: we end relationships way too quickly and it's too bad.
Speaker 1: Like some relationships are good relationships worth keeping. As you said,
Speaker 1: if you guess a lot, and this is generally speaking,
Speaker 1: a good relationship in your partner was I don't know,
Speaker 1: on a business trip and they hooked up with someone
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean anything, and it's not going to
Speaker 1: affect how they feel about you or how they feel
Speaker 1: about the relationship. Like, is that really a good reason
Speaker 1: to end a good seven fifteen year marriage. I don't know,
Speaker 1: and I don't think so. I don't think so exactly.
Speaker 1: Just hack his phone, had his phone, put a GPS
Speaker 1: in his car. You know what that's say. I'm getting
Speaker 1: divorced already. I was still stick at him and I
Speaker 1: don't even know who he is because I ain't got
Speaker 1: no man. But ever tell you this, we need a
Speaker 1: do part two. This is so good. Where can people
Speaker 1: get in contact with you they want to ask you
Speaker 1: any questions or any researches or anything like that. Please
Speaker 1: connect with me on Instagram at doctor Johanna. That's d
Speaker 1: r z h a n A. Same on Twitter as well,
Speaker 1: and that's my website to doctor Johanna dot com d
Speaker 1: r z h a n a dot com. And for
Speaker 1: people who might be curious about exploring opening up. I
Speaker 1: have an online course called opens Martyr that they can
Speaker 1: take that kind of guides them through how to do
Speaker 1: this the smart way and not the dumb way. Guys,
Speaker 1: this episode has been so good. If you have any questions,
Speaker 1: if you want to know anything for the part two
Speaker 1: of this conversation, go to Exactly a Mata on YouTube
Speaker 1: and on Instagram and ask whatever questions. I Am literally
Speaker 1: gonna go there and read everything that you have and
Speaker 1: um and I'll be asking and I'll you'll hear it
Speaker 1: here on the podcast for sure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thanks to every single person that has been joining us
Speaker 1: week by week. Thank you so much for joining me today,
Speaker 1: and remember to follow exactly a Mata and Michael podcast
Speaker 1: on Instagram. You can also watch us on YouTube. Like
Speaker 1: I always say, just go to the search bar and
Speaker 1: write exactly a Mata and remember that this has been
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio Michael podcast Network. For
Speaker 1: more information and for more podcasts from my Heart, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite show. Exactly Anyways. We will see
Speaker 1: you guys next Thursday and game h