WEBVTT - Are We Wired for Monogamy? 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.560 Hey, guys, what's up? Was good's copping? You're listening to 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.680 exactly a mod I? Thank you so much for downloading 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.280 and subscribing. I am so grateful to you guys. You 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.880 guys have made this one of the littlest podcasts out 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.520 here right now, and it's thanks to you. Don't forget 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.480 to rate us five stars. Share this podcast um with 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.200 your friend, your family, gonna the important part is to 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.440 share it. This show is gonna be a little bit 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:35.320 interesting because these type of topics. Meg, I don't know 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.240 I can connect to these topics because cheeter, cheeter, punkin eater, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.400 anything that has to do with monogamy and stuff like, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.760 you know, relationships. I like all those topics because I 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.440 feel like we're consistently, especially in this generation, trying to 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.760 figure out what exactly is love, what exactly is being 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:59.440 in a relationship, what exactly is staying together? How much 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.320 ship are supposed to put up with? What are you 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.840 supposed to let go? What? How does this work? Are 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.360 you supposed to be like an open relationship because there's 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:10.759 so many options thanks to technology. Should we be more 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.640 loyal to each other? Are we still loyal to each 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.360 other and we're open about being with other people. I 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.040 don't know. This is confusing, this is hoo much for me. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.600 I don't know what to do. Anyways, today I am 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.279 so grateful to bring an amazing guest. My guest today 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.679 is a sex researcher. She's a speaker, a writer, and 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:36.800 her name is Dr Jena Mammon and Jonna. Where is 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:46.200 this name from? I love it from Macedonia from you know, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:49.520 I like it? Well, you know what, I'm curious to know. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:55.160 What made you become a sex researcher. I thought that 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.840 sexuality was the most fascinating topic I could possibly study, Like, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.840 couldn't think of something that would keep my interests for 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.760 the rest of my life when I was deciding what 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.680 PhD topic to choose, Obviously, does that make you a 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:11.320 little bit freaky? Is that what you're saying professionally? At 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:16.000 least a little bit? Okay? Okay, it might be a 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:21.240 bit more than a bit okay. Well, no, I was 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.280 interested actually in if you want to call them freaky, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:29.000 the more sort of uncommon are unusual expressions of sexuality. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:30.840 That's what I went to study. I wanted to study 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.280 non heterosexuality, so the people who are not completely straight 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.400 or have at least some interest in other genders. I 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.040 wanted to study casual sex, sex outside of the confines 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.040 of a long term romantic relationship. I wanted to study 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:50.400 non monogamy, like these pairings and relationships that are not 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.120 exclusive sexually or romantically. I wanted to study kink, so 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.600 all of these things that are kind of on the 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.480 most and all that freaky stuff, Yeah, the stuff that 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.360 it's hush hush, but that are so much part of 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.959 who we are, that makes us the humans that we are. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.680 And what I was really curious about is how do 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:14.679 people who have these I guess less acceptable, more stigmatized, 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.560 sometimes less common, although not always, some of these things 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.040 are not less common, Like our desire for non monogamy, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.040 that's a pretty common desire, but it's not an acceptable desire. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.880 And so my curiosity was always how do people who 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.320 have these desires that are on the margins of what 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.400 society says is okay? How do we navigate our lives? 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:37.760 How do we get our sexual needs met while existing 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.880 in a society that says you shouldn't have those needs? Well, 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.240 because we're well, because society basically tells us that we're 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:46.920 we're supposed to be loyal to each other, and that 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.160 loyalty means that it's supposed to be just you and 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.160 me and me and you till the end of time. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.880 So basically, like, if you're in a relationship, you're only 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.600 supposed to stake it to me for the next you know, 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.360 sixty eight years, And we all know that's a damn lack. 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:04.960 That is the damn Does watching porn count as cheating 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.960 for some people? That's something that everybody has to decide 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.200 for themselves. There are so many of these behaviors that 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.680 are kind of in the gray zone. And you ask 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.039 on a survey, you ask a bunch of people, is 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.560 watching porn cheating? And some people will say yes, and 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.560 some people always will say no, and there is no 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.919 one right answer, Like every single person in a relationship 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:28.600 needs to decide whether their partner watching porn. Do you 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.680 consider it to be cheating? For myself, no, absolutely not. 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:37.039 I watch I love watching porn with my partners. I 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.480 love watching porn in my own I know they're watching 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.720 porn on their own. We share videos that we like. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.320 I don't think I don't think watching porn is cheating. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.360 I think it's actually healthy to a certain extent. I'm 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.040 gonna tell you why I feel the watching overdo it. 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.920 You can definitely overdo you can overdo it. You can 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.919 also by watching these porns, um create this like fat 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.520 see this fake concept of what sex is supposed to be, 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.280 and that's not necessarily true. Let's when we watch these porns, 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.559 let's also understand that they're getting paid for this one two. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.960 There's a whole camera crew in front of them. And 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.480 have you ever been to a porn set and friends 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.720 who are porn? But they haven't, they haven't the advertisement 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.960 to my girls, shout out to Angelina Castro. She's my 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.400 friend and at one point in time, a long time ago, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:29.640 she does porn, and she invited me to a set 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.560 and I went and after I saw it is definitely 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.760 not what people think. I know that in the moment 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.320 what you're horning, you're looking at and you're like, women 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.000 put so much pressure on themselves trying to compete with 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.760 these women that they see on these porns. Anyways, that's 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.920 a whole different conversation. But what you said is true 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:51.880 that watching porn can, especially if you don't have a 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.080 lot of real life experience of what real sex looks 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.080 like what real human bodies look like and can do. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:01.960 You can, especially if you watch a lot of porn, 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.480 then you can definitely build a fantasy and instead of 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.920 expectations that can be not really be and it can 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.000 really humanize you from your partner. Every relationship has their 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:15.279 standards or limits, and they decide what's accepted and what 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.640 is not right. What I will say, though, is you 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.159 can choose to be monogamous. Right. You can choose to 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.239 be with a relationship with someone that is completely sexually 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.680 exclusive and romantically exclusive so you don't have other partners. 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.000 That doesn't mean some of these desires that humans have 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.719 for other partners will just magically go away. And so 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.520 if you then also restrict things like porn or masturbation, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.880 or maybe even things like flirting with others kind of 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.599 innocently flirting with others, or being able to see and 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.680 appreciate another person as a good looking person, if you 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.479 expect your partner to really suppress all of that, that 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.240 might be too much for humans because we can maybe 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.799 not act on some of those desires. We can certainly 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.839 say I've committed to monogamy, Therefore I'm not gonna actually 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.200 make out with someone else or have a relationship with 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.000 someone else, but to not have those desires at all, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:18.840 we can't really have that. Okay, so you gave great 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.040 points right now in order to be in a you know, 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:25.400 I guess, a healthy relationship. Yeah, you can't. You can't 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.760 like um, you can't watch porn. You can't masturbate. Ding 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:37.000 ding ding ding ding. Question, is masturbating considered cheating? Again, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.440 for some people, it is. I've talked to people who 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:42.320 have thought of it as cheating, who when they found 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:48.520 out their partners were masturbating, really upset. Most people, I think, don't, 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.680 And again I would recommend even even if you have 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.000 a lot of jealousy and it's really hard to hear 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.440 about those things. It's okay you don't share that necessarily 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.280 with your partner, but accepting that they unless they are 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.640 very low on sex drive and very low on their 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.280 need for sexual novelty. You know, these traits exist in 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:13.560 a continuum, just like anything like extroversion or intelligence or 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.960 whatever have you. You don't exists on a continuum. Some 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.720 people are really low. Some people are like very very introverted, right, 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.480 Some people are very very extroverted. Most people are somewhere 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.800 in the middle. I remember used to date this guy 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.960 Trash and he was so nice and everything, but when 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.280 it came to like doing it, I used to be bored. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.880 So then even if he was at the house, I 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.120 would do myself. And then I kind of fell back 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:37.960 because I was like, damn, I have a whole piece 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:39.960 of dick right here in the house. Am I not 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.200 supposed to just, you know, do it with him because 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.960 I like him, we're together, that we're you know, And 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.720 then I just felt more comfortable to be connected with 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.120 with myself. That can also become a problem, and talking 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.559 about that before we get into the monogamy and cheating 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.000 and all these things, I just want to hit a 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.840 couple of points that are maybe considered cheating for some 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.120 and not for others before we go there. I want 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.400 to emphasize something that you just said. You know, you 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.800 were dating someone that you were not having good sex with, 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.319 right right. But I loved him. He was great person 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.920 great personality, He had all the great characteristics, better when 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:22.040 it came to the freaky part. Okay, So my advice 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:26.320 if you want a monogamous relationship, yes, if you want 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.240 to long term monogamous relationships insexs is important to you 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:34.240 if those two things describe you, right, you or anyone there, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:37.400 you have to be with someone that you really want 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.280 to suck oh my god, because sometimes the ones you 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.040 want to fucking got no job, and then the ones 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.000 that you got a job, they're danggling is whack? Is? 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.760 You know? It's hard to find exactly, It's hard to 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.920 find someone who meets all of these different needs, which 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.040 is why if you want to be partnered with someone 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.560 who you like for other reasons, but the sex is 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.600 sort of a okay or not great, then having a 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.280 monogamous relationship is going to be really hard. That means 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.079 you're never really gonna get that like real sexual satisfaction 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.360 that you want. So either you pair up with someone 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.480 that you have an okay sex with that everything else 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.640 is great, and then you have some form of an 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.800 open relationship. And there are many many different forms that 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.439 these open relationships can can take that would work for you. 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.960 You said open relationship, What the hell does that mean? 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:31.080 Can mean a lot of different things. Still, a lot 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.199 of different people break it down for the ones that 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.200 don't know, okay, So open relationships can take a couple 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.439 of different forms. There are a couple of the most 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.559 common forms. Either you and your partner played together. Okay, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.080 we played together, so you may have a threesome every 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.080 now and then or a foursome every now and then. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.160 Judgment free zone, judgment free zone. You know that in 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.120 my mind, I've always wanted to do an orgy in 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.320 my mind, but okay, in the real life, I cannot, 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:02.120 but bodkay. First of all, I'm a lady, So what 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.400 you said I wouldn't do it because my lady, do 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.280 ladies not have orgies? Is not what I'm sure that 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.640 there's a lot of ladies that have orgies, that's right, 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.679 I just haven't met one yet, love, and I need 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.280 to meet one. Gammity. I mean, I had an orgy 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.760 and they were like twenty of them. They all stabbed 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.599 me with it in my ass, akil and Nadi, in 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.280 my ears, everywhere, and I loved it. So that's a gaining. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.000 That's not an orgy. That's a gang bang. Oh as 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.719 a gang bang. I can't forget that. You're the professional one. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.880 You're the one that knows all orgies. Usually when you 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.000 have a mix of genders and and everybody does each 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.200 other more even mix of gender. Not necessarily everyone does 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.560 each other, but there's more of a mix in terms 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.760 of the gender ratio, whereas a well, you just described 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.720 like twenty guys and a woman, that would be a 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.240 gang bang. No no, no, okay, not a gang bang. 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.120 Not a gang bang. I would rather an orgy. It doesn't. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.480 Let me ask you this. Out of all the craziness 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.480 and other things that you have obviously learned, experience, research 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.840 and everything, what has been the biggest or weirdest discovery, Like, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.199 what has been something really weird that you actually found 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.400 out in your study? Oh? Lord, there are a lot 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.959 of different things, and once you study human sexuality for 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.959 as long as I have, nothing really is weird because 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.920 there's so many different interests that we have. But I 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.800 want you, I want to go back because we didn't 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.079 finish the previous question. You asked me to back down 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.000 open relationships, and yes, you then went to the most 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:33.320 extreme version of it people. So I want to bring 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:38.240 it to the most common version that people might experience 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.080 or might experiment with, which is just one extra person. 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.520 So usually like the big threesome. Threesome. Yeah, we know 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.640 from research that the that the most common sexual fantasy 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:58.040 that Americans have is that is a threesome, but it's 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.040 more I'm guessing it's more popular because it's also seen, 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:03.120 um and I'm not going to be like a whole 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:05.920 super late extra feminist, but I know there's also seen 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.360 more acceptable to have two women and a man than 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.360 two men and a women. I'm guessing that's the most 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.400 common one, right, that's true, that's the most common one 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:21.880 for men. So about something like men often will say 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.720 throesome with two men two women is appealing, and for 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.120 women it's more mixed and more it's more of those 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.760 women who say they are interested in the threesome, it 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.120 can be fifty fifty often in terms of which type, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.040 whether they would prefer to men and a woman or 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.920 two women and a man. But but so that's one 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.960 version is when you and your partner can play together 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.480 with other people. The other version of a relationship is 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.760 when you let each other play separately, so you go 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.320 on dates or play play dates or whatever separately, and 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:59.720 then you share come together and you share something with 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.400 your partner about those dates. There's a third version of that, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.560 which is you go and see people separately and you 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.840 don't really talk to each other about it. Yeah, that 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.040 would probably be me. Don't tell me what you did 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.000 to that other bitch, because you know what, as a 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.800 matter of fact, that's it. We're breaking up. It's over. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:20.960 I can't do it. I don't know there's I have 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:24.080 two mixed emotions. Ladies, hit me up on the exactly 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:25.320 amount of let me know how you feel if you 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.240 agree with me or not, but I have to I 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.760 have mixed emotions. One, I would love for you to 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.080 tell me how it went, what you did, whatever, so 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.000 that I feel like I'm connected and I was part 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.280 of that experience and I don't feel like I'm left out. Two, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.800 I don't want to know because then I feel like 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.120 what about it? Be like them more with her? What about? 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.640 You know, I don't know what's going on. I don't 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.200 want to feel insecure about it. So maybe we you know, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.480 we had a free hall pass. We both went and 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.520 did a freaking stuff. We come back and like it 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:55.040 never happened. We're good. Um. I think that also in 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.680 a person like myself. Kay. I know him a bad 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.960 bitche first of all, but I believe still that woman 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.000 said of me, it can bring some sort of insecurity 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.040 where it can make me feel like, um, a lot 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.200 of times, look at it goes, it goes past a 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.080 sexual part and then you're back at having sex with 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.320 this person. What are the chances lalinaesa that now it 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.720 went from just sex, so now I really actually like 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:25.000 this person. Yeah, that's a very valid concern, very very 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.800 valid concern. And couples who decide to do this to 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.440 open up in some way, shape or form, they especially 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:37.800 if they're being intentional about their relationships, they devise and 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.160 talk about, Okay, how are we going to make sure 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.920 that whatever sexual things that happened don't turn into something more, 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.040 because when they turn into something more, then we're talking 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.520 about polyamory. You can decide those things again, you can 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.200 agree on those things with your partner that you're not 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.160 going to do that, that you're not going to develop 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.640 these whatever these flings or kind of casual interactions, that 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.920 you're not going to develop them into something more. And 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.240 it's not always possible, but we humans. You have some 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:12.680 control over whether we feed a relationship or start a relationship. Right, 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:17.920 so who has more control? Men or women? I would 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.440 probably say men do because and I'll tell you why, 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.880 because they've been encouraged to do that a lot more 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.600 over the last like ten thousand years of human history 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.280 than women have. Women have been forbidden entirely from having 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:39.160 any kind of sexual interactions outside of their husbands, whereas 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:44.000 men have often been allowed to have either sex workers 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:48.400 on the side or mistresses on the side, concubines, you know, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.720 in almost society for the last ten thousand years since 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.200 agriculture happened. So the human species has has had a 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.640 very different history before agriculture. When we were nomads, when 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.920 we were gatherers, were kind of kind of you know, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.640 roaming around, being mobile and not living in any one 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.520 given place, and that was a very long period. There 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.280 was millions of years, several millions of years that we 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.800 lived kind of like that. And then about ten thousand, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.560 twelve thousand years ago, agriculture happened. We started to live 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:22.520 sedentary lives. The roles of men and women changed and 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.359 became much more powerful than women because during hunter gatherer times, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:29.560 men and women were a lot more equal in terms 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.600 of bringing home the bacon, if you will. Everybody brought 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.280 home the bacon. And I think that we're even now, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.719 we're getting closer back to that, but we're not fully equal, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.399 but we're on the right track. And because we're on 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:47.320 the right track is exactly why we're having this conversation 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.480 right now, because you need women to have freedom to 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.960 pursue other partners as well as men in order for 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.040 us to be having these kinds of conversations. Otherwise, you know, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.200 women were leave to be a sexual. I mean, there 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.160 was a time just about hundred hundred fifty years ago 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:10.080 in Victorian England, which then got transported into the US 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.760 norms as well, where literally scientists believe that women are 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.879 just not very sexual, that they were a sexual beings, 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.560 they just did sex for their husband's pleasure because we 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.959 were so suppressed. To be honest, there is a certain 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.720 extent of that, and I don't, Oh my god, you 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.600 know that here in exactly amount. I'm an open book 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.600 and I tell you everything, whether it sounds good or bad. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.760 But I thought for two seconds that I too was 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.040 a sexual. And I'm gonna say it in this in 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.879 this perspective only because um, I also think it's a 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:49.120 cultural thing. I don't know if you've ever heard this, Latina, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.000 when you're with a man, you have to please him. Young, Okay, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.480 you're upset on your you know, if you're happy, you're 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.840 upset or whatever, you still gotta lay there and spread 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:05.720 it because if you don't do it, So, no matter what, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.440 the phone must be on the table and the food 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.720 must also be in the bed. Sometimes, just because you 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.159 have to please your your your spouse, your partner, it 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.919 doesn't always mean that your horny, that you want it, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.560 do you whatever. A lot of times, just because you're 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.920 dangling is hard and you're ready to go, doesn't mean 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.280 that I'm ready the same way women need to be. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.400 They have to be come okay, may like you know, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.240 so those me okays, me slap my ask do something. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:34.080 But a lot of times they also feel that the 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.240 fact that we don't have good sexual communication affects women 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.959 a lot sexually. And it also makes you feel like 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.480 you don't have a sexual drive, which you might have. 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.359 It's just that your your partner may not be doing 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.720 it properly. Do you agree? Yeah? I do agree. And 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.800 an average, you know, when you look at that spectrum 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:54.800 that I talked about in the sex drive and this 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.240 bell curve in which it's distributed, it's both like not 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.960 for men and women, just for men a little higher 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.280 than for women on average, but in addition to that, 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.080 you're right that women often need a bit more stimulation 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:14.119 and they also what we're learning now, more and more 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:19.720 women's sex drive needs a bit more novelty needs to 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.920 be Men's sex drive seems to be kind of more 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:28.520 steady and less less susceptible to external factors, like it's 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.800 gonna be there no matter what. Whereas women it's they 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.080 give me something to get, give me something good to 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:47.879 get aroused by. Money I can work or something. Okay, 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:59.800 give me something limp la casa, wash the cargo. Thanks 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:04.000 to change, physical things change, physical attractions change, people, mature, 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.639 people change the the vision that they had of the 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.520 things that used to be attractive to them may no 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.800 longer be attractive. People grow, and that's I think that's 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:16.800 another thing, UM, that we also have to be understanding. 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.320 When it comes to being in a relationship with someone, 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.040 you have to be able to grow with that person, UM, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.119 and understand that things will change. You can't continue to 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:26.600 look at this person like the way that you met 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:30.119 them a thousand years ago, and you know what before. 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:31.879 Because I know that our time is limited and I 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.040 can talk about this all day, I want to talk 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.800 about something really important, UM, especially now in two let's 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:43.919 talk about cheating. Let's talk about cheaters. Based off your research, 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:48.439 why do you think people cheat? People cheat for a 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:53.760 lot of different reasons, but ultimately it boils down to two. 0:21:55.280 --> 0:22:00.280 Either they're not really happy in the relationships, sort of 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:03.000 not getting what they need, and that could be something 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.399 sexual that they're not getting, or it could be something 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:10.080 more emotional that they're not getting and they're seeking it elsewhere. 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:17.720 Or they just need something novel and different, exciting, like 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.119 the adventure exactly on the side. So they're happy with 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:24.000 the relationship and they don't want to end it in 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.000 any way, but they just need this little bit of 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.840 extra excitement and excitement. I understand. For the most part, 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:33.720 a lot of men feel that they need a little 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.000 bit of excitement. They don't want to leave. They don't 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.040 want to leave, you know, you know their main chick. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.480 They just want some excitement, you know, um, something different. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.280 It's like if you have rice and beans every day, 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:47.160 one day you want to eat something else. My thing 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:52.119 is exactment, And I was about to say that my 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.680 thing comes into like, Okay, you need some adventure. Can 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.400 I have some adventure too? Because that's what happens. Men 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.720 come out year and they cheat and they do all 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:07.840 of this one little chick. Oh, the world's gonna fought apart. 0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.000 That's a problem. So that you're like, you're a whore. 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:14.840