Speaker 1: Warning. Today's episode candad spoilerst for episodes three and four
Speaker 1: of Mall shadow Lord on Disney Plus. Hello, my name
Speaker 1: is Jasonconcept.
Speaker 2: That was kind of more yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's more like.
Speaker 2: Like it's like a oh yes, it's me Rosie. N Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was going and low.
Speaker 1: He's got like this weird like Quaver.
Speaker 3: He's definitely sounding old. He's got the Grandpa place.
Speaker 1: It's like a Vincent price, like a lower Vincent price. Anyway,
Speaker 1: my name is Jasonconcept and I'm Rosie Night again and
Speaker 1: welcome back to x Ravage of the podcast where we
Speaker 1: dive deep with your faverit Joe's movies. We're coming to
Speaker 1: reminding our podcast Where Will You three episodes.
Speaker 3: Plast News on Saturday is In today's episode, we are
Speaker 3: recapping episodes one O three and one four of Darth
Speaker 3: Maul shadow Lord, and we'll be bringing in super producer
Speaker 3: Joel to talk a little bit about who's in the crew,
Speaker 3: who are the characters, and where we're at four episodes
Speaker 3: into Dave Filoni's newest Star Wars animated series.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this. The first episode that we're discussing today,
Speaker 1: Mall shadow Lord one O three whispers in the unknown.
Speaker 3: Yes, so we are joining directly where we left off
Speaker 3: under the two moons of janex we see that Devon
Speaker 3: has escaped her rocky prison and rook Cast is searching
Speaker 3: for her, but she finds More in the tunnels.
Speaker 2: Instead, More finds her and says, so you're beginning to
Speaker 2: see things through a new perspective.
Speaker 3: And as the pair share some Cassio tea, a nice
Speaker 3: nod to the rad young reader's book The Clone Wars Death,
Speaker 3: More Shadow Conspiracy. And you've seen that tea come up
Speaker 3: many times since then if you read the extra texts.
Speaker 3: Mare tries to convince Devin that he has been misrepresented
Speaker 3: and that really he's.
Speaker 2: Just as confused as she is about her fate.
Speaker 3: Despite him reminding her and us of his tragic backstory,
Speaker 3: the betrayal of his master, the murder of his mother
Speaker 3: and brother.
Speaker 2: Devin is unmoved bro.
Speaker 3: She is like, absolutely not working on me, and she
Speaker 3: uses the force to take his double sided lightsaber into
Speaker 3: her own hands. But that feistiness is something more can
Speaker 3: work with. Back in the Exposition headquarters, I mean the
Speaker 3: police headquarters, two boots he's licking both of them, and
Speaker 3: Lawson are explaining Maul's connections to the galactic crime syndicates
Speaker 3: for those who haven't watched the Star Wars animated property before.
Speaker 3: While Lawson continues to be inexplicably bad at policing, Devon
Speaker 3: is wielding Maul's saber as he tries to tempt her
Speaker 3: towards the dark side. Rook Casts, jealousy over Maul's new
Speaker 3: would be apprentice, leads her to head out after the
Speaker 3: next Pike shipment alone. Two boots in his cop robots
Speaker 3: beat them there, but Casting her crew managed to escape,
Speaker 3: but they don't take the credits this time around, which
Speaker 3: hails many questions.
Speaker 2: Just in case you.
Speaker 3: Were worried that Lawson might miss his son's space sports game,
Speaker 3: a very important thing.
Speaker 2: I know he's worry about it.
Speaker 3: You were like, oh my godw could he not miss
Speaker 3: sports lacrosse?
Speaker 2: Like how could this happen in space?
Speaker 3: But no, he makes it his son Riley, which, by
Speaker 3: the way, guys, it's spelt Star Wars, so just so
Speaker 3: you think that.
Speaker 2: He's not too normal, it's r y L E E,
Speaker 2: which I think is so funny.
Speaker 3: But anyway, you know, Dad shows up and he's like,
Speaker 3: I'm here, don't worry, but then Devon's master Daky shows
Speaker 3: up and the pair talk about Devin's capture and Lawson
Speaker 3: inquires more after more, and ultimately he has to leave
Speaker 3: his son's sports game Ollie to deal with the failed heist.
Speaker 2: Why is this a plot point?
Speaker 3: Nobody knows, but Riley's very upset when he scores get
Speaker 3: it. It feels very heat to me.
Speaker 2: So you you know, you know the deal when you
Speaker 2: marry me, baby, you gotta share me with all the
Speaker 2: bad people in the world.
Speaker 1: It really is like al Pacino, I've gotta leave dinner
Speaker 1: thing and.
Speaker 2: Also heat, let's be real.
Speaker 3: He also as well he missed the heist right, which
Speaker 3: leans into the heat of it all because they didn't
Speaker 3: really see each other.
Speaker 2: So Maul speaks to.
Speaker 3: Devin deep under the the tunnels and he waxes lyrical
Speaker 3: on the danger of the inquisitors.
Speaker 2: The life that Devon will have to lead is.
Speaker 3: A sol like solo Jedi on the Rum post Order
Speaker 3: sixty six, though honestly we know there are a lot
Speaker 3: of them out there. She is unconvinced and makes another
Speaker 3: break for it. Lawson and two boots head to the
Speaker 3: scene of the crime. We also learned that the reason
Speaker 3: Lawson hates the Empire is because his wife was part
Speaker 3: of the Empire.
Speaker 2: So it's not that he's like moral he objected to them.
Speaker 3: He's just a divorced hater and he hates He's just like,
Speaker 3: oh not my wife, the fucking bitch like I Coromba. Also,
Speaker 3: you married someone who turned into a Nazi, so that's
Speaker 3: on usir, very confusing options there under the watchful eye
Speaker 3: of rook Cast and her crew. We then see that
Speaker 3: the little alien Varrio speaks to the leader of the
Speaker 3: Pikes on a hologram.
Speaker 1: Why is every criminal from New York?
Speaker 3: I feel like they're trying their best to be like
Speaker 3: less racist, but it's still coming across to me with
Speaker 3: the same problems as previous representations of scheming Star Wars characters.
Speaker 2: But yes he is.
Speaker 3: He's like, hey, hey, it's me. I'm gonna betray Duff Mare.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm gonna eat a hot dog or and
Speaker 3: Vario speaks to the leader of the Pikes and he's like, gonna, Clay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna sell out more.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna make it up to you.
Speaker 3: And obviously we pull back and we see that they're
Speaker 3: all watching and this is sort of a skit set up,
Speaker 3: and then very interestingly, one of the conversations that we've
Speaker 3: all had many times as fans they never imagine coming
Speaker 3: to light in this way.
Speaker 2: I think we.
Speaker 3: Get some interesting stuff in this episode about the notion
Speaker 3: of robots and their coding and and kind of agency,
Speaker 3: but it is through the lens of two Boots wanting
Speaker 3: to snitch to the Empire Tears is desperate to snitch
Speaker 3: is a I know, well, the two Boots is like
Speaker 3: a cowboy out here.
Speaker 1: With this and this is actually now, I guess we've
Speaker 1: seen stuff like this before in this in you know,
Speaker 1: C three po was always complaining about this and that
Speaker 1: and wanted to go his own way, and R two
Speaker 1: was also had was very very headstrong. But I don't
Speaker 1: think you've ever seen a droid go directly against what
Speaker 1: it's human collaborator intended and even said like do that.
Speaker 2: He's told him no man before.
Speaker 3: No. I mean, I would say, like obviously, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of conversation in the in the scene in the
Speaker 3: fandom of the fifty year old Fantom of Star Wars
Speaker 3: about how D two loved to keep a secret because he.
Speaker 2: Knew everything that happened. But other than that, you know,
Speaker 2: he was trying to do his best.
Speaker 3: Maybe his brain was wipe depending on the law, but
Speaker 3: like two boots basically just being like, bro, I need
Speaker 3: to report this to the Empire, like come on, and
Speaker 3: he's like, I just got a snitch to the Empire
Speaker 3: about Darth Maul.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is when.
Speaker 1: He keeps saying too like, I think he'll I think
Speaker 1: he'll appreciate it, like after I do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he'll come.
Speaker 1: He'll come around to it after I snitch on him.
Speaker 2: Crazy, crazy choice.
Speaker 3: Devin continues her like unofficial male training as they battle
Speaker 3: it out with this double edged now you know, split
Speaker 3: into two. It's a great action sequence. He is really
Speaker 3: sassin her up. He's like, you're one of the lost Jedis.
Speaker 3: To survive, you need to explore it, like you need
Speaker 3: to not be like the rest of the Jedis who
Speaker 3: died after all, to sixty six and honestly, it's already
Speaker 3: given abusive master student. I don't think he's gonna like
Speaker 3: break that pattern here.
Speaker 1: I think my note to mal First of all, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the the the mentor mentee, whether it's a
Speaker 1: Jedi or the Sith and the way it relates to
Speaker 1: like grooming is a little alarming. That said, Mall, I
Speaker 1: think you're going I think it's too fast.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're talking himbout.
Speaker 1: The ideals you're telling like okay, that's you know, like
Speaker 1: that's fine. But now you've immediately you're immediately dueling like
Speaker 1: this is six hours in to meeting this person.
Speaker 3: Literally like coming in, I slow the role. You got
Speaker 3: to seduce a bit more, my guy, Like we have
Speaker 3: learned that. As Devin leaves that night at the end
Speaker 3: of the episode, it's clear that Maul expects her to
Speaker 3: return and continue their weird ass training.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: I would not if I was her, Like, I understand
Speaker 3: that being a Jedi is annoying, but this guy is
Speaker 3: not really giving me much more than you know, Daki
Speaker 3: is giving me, unless you just have a thing for
Speaker 3: like sexy Daddy Moore, which I also I know there's
Speaker 3: a lot of you out there do and I respect that,
Speaker 3: so you know, sure, but.
Speaker 2: Otherwise I would not be returning for the training. But
Speaker 2: let's come back after.
Speaker 3: An ad break and you can listen to the rest
Speaker 3: of our recap of more Shadow Lord.
Speaker 1: And we're back Marl's Shadow Lord, Pride and Vengeance.
Speaker 3: Oh who Yes, this is chapter four, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: easily the best episode of the show.
Speaker 1: I think it goes.
Speaker 3: It elevates itself here and we start getting some really
Speaker 3: meaty mall stuff.
Speaker 2: But it begins with Varrio on New York AA. It's me.
Speaker 3: They couldn't afford Billy Crystal, but they wish they could have.
Speaker 3: Barrio continues his vision to be the most hated alien
Speaker 3: in all of the Middle Rim, taking credits to the
Speaker 3: Pike as Maule's scheme for revenge, while More comes out blazing.
Speaker 3: It seems like he's taken out by Varrio and his
Speaker 3: little stun gun and you're like, whoa, he betrayed him.
Speaker 3: I can't believe this with his tiny stun gun. Soon
Speaker 3: the Pikes have taken More captive, clearly thinking they have
Speaker 3: the upper hand. Unfortunately it's a trap within a trap.
Speaker 3: They got inceptioned as it was another Zabrac under the hood,
Speaker 3: one of the twin brothers that we'll talk about.
Speaker 1: One of the anonymous Zabracs who we have yet to
Speaker 1: learn about us.
Speaker 3: Yes, and Joelle is very excited about those twins, so
Speaker 3: she's gonna tell us about them later.
Speaker 2: It was Zabrak under the hood, and Moore was awaiting.
Speaker 3: Elsewhere in the shadows to kill his old ally, who
Speaker 3: we learn abandoned him after mandalor so now once more
Speaker 3: just kills this man, which he just does. He like,
Speaker 3: you're dead, sorry, and everyone else in the pike syndicates like, okay, cool,
Speaker 3: we're in your shadow collective now more so the Shadow
Speaker 3: Collective is beginning to shape up nicely for our red
Speaker 3: headed monster man.
Speaker 2: Devon and Daki reunite.
Speaker 3: I mean, god damn, there's like it's so funny, how
Speaker 3: bad the empire and just people, the cops in general
Speaker 3: that now exist are at just catching Jedi just like
Speaker 3: walking around. Devon and Daki reunite, and Devon is like,
Speaker 3: I want to stop more.
Speaker 2: And bring him to justice.
Speaker 3: Daki's like, I think, I just want to get revenge.
Speaker 3: So I guess such he's such a skull.
Speaker 2: He's not winning. He's not gonna get her to win.
Speaker 1: Liked looking like the most Jedi.
Speaker 2: He looks like a dinosaur Jedi.
Speaker 3: Like it's so inconspicuous, like my guy, I mean so conspicuous.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he he's like you are on.
Speaker 3: A quest for revenge. So that makes me think that
Speaker 3: the reason Devin knows more is because she knows somebody
Speaker 3: he killed, and we're gonna kind of get that somewhere
Speaker 3: further dealing line, because I feel like that's where it
Speaker 3: has to be going. Unfortunately, the only thing that too
Speaker 3: powerful Jedi can conceive of doing in this situation is
Speaker 3: go to the cops, which, again, guys, I just this
Speaker 3: is a lack of imagination for me on a storytelling level.
Speaker 3: That just doesn't make sense. Think about the things that
Speaker 3: Jedis have done before. You are just trying to investigate that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like to Space, they're starting entire fake like missions where
Speaker 3: they're pretending to be Jedi, you know, people talk talking
Speaker 3: to delegates, but they're not really meant to be there,
Speaker 3: Like we saw that during the Clone Wars, like we've
Speaker 3: seen it so many.
Speaker 1: Missions, they would send two Jedis into an entire ship
Speaker 1: of enemies to both negotiated deal and fight their way out.
Speaker 1: And now you're like, well, we gotta call the cops, right.
Speaker 3: That's the problem when you add something that is so
Speaker 3: out of the world and the universe, you have to
Speaker 3: start changing the parameters and I think you can really
Speaker 3: feel that here.
Speaker 2: But yes, so the Jedi are like, we better go
Speaker 2: to the cops.
Speaker 3: So laws And heads over to the location that Daki
Speaker 3: and Devin sent him.
Speaker 2: And he turns off two Boots on the way.
Speaker 3: Very crazy thing to do, and it is like, because
Speaker 3: two Boots is very desperate to call the Empire, which
Speaker 3: we get, don't do that, but I feel like turning
Speaker 3: him off is not going to lead to the outcome
Speaker 3: that you want because you're taking away the agency he
Speaker 3: does have. And also it makes us in Joel's the
Speaker 3: pitch that she did when we watched the first episode,
Speaker 3: this kind of notion of like Lawson maybe being a
Speaker 3: dirty cop and he's hiding something, which I like and
Speaker 3: that this choice leans into it.
Speaker 2: But I don't think that's what they're doing.
Speaker 1: I was honestly really hoping it would be that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I watch it after the divorce revealed, it seems increasingly
Speaker 1: unlike the fact that it's not that, and that Lawson's
Speaker 1: only reason, apparently for not wanting the Empire involved, is
Speaker 1: that I guess like his ex wife might chill up.
Speaker 3: I like, bro, they're nat He's like, come on, okay.
Speaker 3: So luckily you know, Lawson and his crew of cop
Speaker 3: bots and cop cops because some real people die here too,
Speaker 3: and no. Two boots arrive at Darth Maul's very dark lair,
Speaker 3: and they instead find Barrio and a hologram of Maul,
Speaker 3: who tries to charm him with compliments and photorealism, revealing
Speaker 3: that the whole crew is actually waiting for the Renegade cop.
Speaker 3: Of course, the O G Space Cops, the Jedi, Devon,
Speaker 3: and Deckie are waiting in the Shadows.
Speaker 2: Lawson doesn't take Moore's.
Speaker 3: Off of protection in exchange for not calling the Empire,
Speaker 3: in which honestly sounds like a very good deal. Like
Speaker 3: I don't really get good deal? Why you wouldn't take it? Because, remember, guys,
Speaker 3: Lawson doesn't know who Mare is, has no idea about
Speaker 3: the Shadow Collective, doesn't really understand any of his history,
Speaker 3: so doesn't have a reason not to trust him or
Speaker 3: think he's evil. His biggest thing is he doesn't want
Speaker 3: the Jedi. I mean, he doesn't want the Empire to come.
Speaker 3: So this seems like a good deal for me.
Speaker 2: But fine. Moore finally meets Master Decie.
Speaker 3: Who thinks that more will take an offer to surrender pelacefully.
Speaker 2: Again the most old headed Jedi like.
Speaker 3: Come, Decie, go toward a sixty six to pastures, give
Speaker 3: up the lightsaber, give us this is time, retire, go
Speaker 3: to bed. Of course, More tries to play the Jedi's
Speaker 3: arrogance as the trio talk ideologies, and ultimately it leads
Speaker 3: to a pretty epic light saber battle between Moore and
Speaker 3: Devon and Deckie. As the saber battle continues, More becomes
Speaker 3: more frustrated, ultimately leading to Devon being able to save
Speaker 3: her master and More allowing them to live after both
Speaker 3: the Jedi and the Space Cops fail to pre apprehend him.
Speaker 3: Lawson finally somehow realizes Devon and Deckie are Jedi, which again,
Speaker 3: this man's job is a detective bro The first time
Speaker 3: he met Dekie, Deckie was holding up a bridge with.
Speaker 2: The holding a bridge turned around to him and was like,
Speaker 2: are you okay? But I guess he's.
Speaker 1: Wearing the classic hood of a wearing a Jedi robe.
Speaker 2: And he's been following you the whole the bridge.
Speaker 1: This man, I swear to God, somebody dated what is
Speaker 1: the clearance rate of crimes?
Speaker 3: On?
Speaker 1: This jenis like? Are we are we solving any crimes.
Speaker 3: No, this man does nothing apart them make sure the
Speaker 3: Empire does a come so he doesn't have to pay
Speaker 3: his child support like the slow like Lawson is just like, hey,
Speaker 3: you know what, you can leave. It's okay, I'm a cost,
Speaker 3: but you can just leave and don't worry about more.
Speaker 3: We didn't catch him, but you know, I guess the
Speaker 3: Empire is coming anyway because my boot lickor cop Bot
Speaker 3: two bots has been reactivated and has become what he
Speaker 3: always wanted to be a snitch for the Empire, who
Speaker 3: arrive in a Superstar Destroyer ominously as always, as the
Speaker 3: episode comes to an end, and we will be back
Speaker 3: after a break to bring in super producer Joel to
Speaker 3: talk about this episode, to talk about droids and agency versus.
Speaker 2: Programming, and to find out more about Darth Maure's mysterious product.
Speaker 2: I'm We're back.
Speaker 3: Welcome he Super Solos producer Joel.
Speaker 2: How's it going, Joe? How'd you fail off to these
Speaker 2: two episodes? Vindicated?
Speaker 1: We are back.
Speaker 4: We listen, Okay, I feel.
Speaker 2: Managing so far, so good?
Speaker 4: But before it is so good. I text you immediately
Speaker 4: after and I was like, this is what I've been
Speaker 4: waiting for I was wrong, I can admit it. I
Speaker 4: was really down on the first two episodes, maybe too harshly.
Speaker 4: I was having a bad week last week. But I
Speaker 4: feel much stronger about the direction of where we're going.
Speaker 4: Daddy Mal strapped back in. He's he's gonna make this
Speaker 4: lady a weapon, whether she wants to or not. He
Speaker 4: is absolutely out here kicking ass. I thought the a
Speaker 4: lot of the tensions were working a lot better for me.
Speaker 1: I think we get a little bit more of Rooke,
Speaker 1: which is great.
Speaker 4: Rooke, you know, it's kind of the only character we
Speaker 4: know from Maul series. She like has been here sort
Speaker 4: of in the background, making a lot of interesting choices
Speaker 4: over the time we've seen her with Mal, and so
Speaker 4: I'm hoping we get more of her down the line.
Speaker 4: I just think the show is in general moving in
Speaker 4: a really strong direction, and that gives me a lot
Speaker 4: of hope for the rest of the series.
Speaker 3: Okay, you spoke a little bit about rook cast, so
Speaker 3: can you let's talk about the Mall team, because we
Speaker 3: did have a kind of critique of that. They as
Speaker 3: much as this show has quite a lot of second
Speaker 3: screen style exposition for people who haven't watched the show
Speaker 3: and previous animated series. I do not feel like they
Speaker 3: necessarily did a good job of having that moment where
Speaker 3: Rook says.
Speaker 2: Chorus and Scorn go over there or something.
Speaker 3: You know. So, so could you talk a little bit
Speaker 3: about the team Joe up.
Speaker 4: So there's okay, So truly, there's not that many people
Speaker 4: we need to go over. I'll start with Rook cast
Speaker 4: This is his like lieutenant. She's the one that's been
Speaker 4: down to ride for a while. She first appears in
Speaker 4: Jeremy Barlow's Son of Dathamir, which is a four part
Speaker 4: comic book series. She's the former leader of the super Command.
Speaker 4: She joined mal after he beat pre Visla in combat,
Speaker 4: which is significant because a lot of Mandalorians were like,
Speaker 4: this guy is not Mandalorian. He can't lead us, and
Speaker 4: she was like, we're Mandalorians. We follow strength. So she's
Speaker 4: really like dedicated to those core tenants if you care.
Speaker 4: She wilds the leastar thirty five blaster pistols, two of them.
Speaker 1: She's a dual welthcap.
Speaker 4: She has been with Maul through a lot. So she
Speaker 4: freed Mall from sith imprisonment in the Spire when he
Speaker 4: almost got got she stayed fighting with him when he
Speaker 4: was against Grievous Sidius and Douku Holy Cow. Then later
Speaker 4: during the season of Mandalora, she helped capture Ahsoka, a
Speaker 4: Soka being Ahsoka escapes, but she was there and she
Speaker 4: did help capture her. And then later on she's captured
Speaker 4: by Bogatan, which is a really great kind of moment
Speaker 4: in the Clone War series, and then she fall during
Speaker 4: the fall of Dosimiir, she is there, which is I
Speaker 4: think one of Maul's most important moments. This is when
Speaker 4: he goes back to Dothanimir, Dooku is there. They're like, hey,
Speaker 4: we're gonna finally end this planet. We meet ghost mother Tolesan,
Speaker 4: who saves her son in a last ditch effort like
Speaker 4: force pushes him back onto his ship, which we're gonna
Speaker 4: get to that ship in a second. It's it's the
Speaker 4: end of every last connection mal has to his blood family,
Speaker 4: something I think he craves quite a bit. As we
Speaker 4: see throughout these last four episodes. What he wants is
Speaker 4: like allies, people who are faithful to him. He's looking
Speaker 4: to sort of fill the rule of two that he's
Speaker 4: been brainwashed and conditioned to think of.
Speaker 1: As like how you get through life.
Speaker 4: And I find it really really interesting that he has
Speaker 4: this very very deep connection to Rook. And I'm wondering
Speaker 4: if she's at all I don't think she's for sensitive,
Speaker 4: that would be wild, but like, does she feel like
Speaker 4: she can fill that rule too?
Speaker 3: Is she his?
Speaker 2: I feel like she feels like it.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's the most interesting flicked in this
Speaker 3: show so far is the notion of Rook's jealousy of
Speaker 3: Maul turning to Devn when she's like, well, what can
Speaker 3: she do?
Speaker 2: The I can't do? And the truth is, so far
Speaker 2: we haven't seen edything, you know, like to the thing.
Speaker 2: I know that's what Darth Maul wants.
Speaker 3: But like Rook is loyal, has weapons, like I understand
Speaker 3: from her perspective.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah no, because Rook has already proven her loyalty
Speaker 4: like four times over, like there's no doubting it.
Speaker 1: She's going to get all of her people.
Speaker 4: She was like, no, I don't care. I'm writing with
Speaker 4: this guy, so it is kind of well for him
Speaker 4: to be like, I can make this one. She's like,
Speaker 4: you don't have to make someone. I'm already here. Uh
Speaker 4: exact Rook is really interesting. I like Rook, and Rook
Speaker 4: is still kind of like leading the Mandalorians that have
Speaker 4: followed over with her, So she's in this really interesting
Speaker 4: position of sort of being stuck between two places like
Speaker 4: Mal's emotional like wherever his emotions are taking him, that's
Speaker 4: just where he's going, and the Andalorian code and guidebook
Speaker 4: and the way they've been led their whole lives. The
Speaker 4: other two characters I'm really really really interested in my
Speaker 4: god a Christ and Scorn. These are the dot the
Speaker 4: Murray brothers. They're making their first appearance in the Star
Speaker 4: Wars cannon right here. If we don't get more information
Speaker 4: on them in this show, I will die. I'll waste
Speaker 4: a way.
Speaker 2: Giving we need a book.
Speaker 1: I want to say one thing about this Yes, because
Speaker 1: I I love this episode. I thought it was great.
Speaker 1: The action is fantastic, the like all of that stuff, Like,
Speaker 1: there's some really interesting plot points. I think Two Boots
Speaker 1: is ongoing independence is really interesting with like implications for
Speaker 1: the you know, like the way we think about droids
Speaker 1: in general. But I do think that Dave Filoni has
Speaker 1: a tick that I'm not sure works in these shorter series,
Speaker 1: and that is he if we meet if we talk
Speaker 1: about Chris. If we get any character development from Charis
Speaker 1: and Scorn, I guarantee you to all be in one episode.
Speaker 1: Like he puts all the character beats for a character
Speaker 1: in a single episode and doesn't pace them out throughout
Speaker 1: a series, so that like you know, for instance, the
Speaker 1: rook cast Devin jealousy plot, that's really interesting, Like let's
Speaker 1: build on it. He'll give us a moment and then
Speaker 1: it's gone charism score and here's like here, you know,
Speaker 1: here in these episodes is a great opportunity to know
Speaker 1: who these guys are. First of all, we can't tell
Speaker 1: him apart, but like one of them plays a key
Speaker 1: role in this like bait and switch that Maul is doing,
Speaker 1: and we don't know like what kind of risk he's taking.
Speaker 1: We don't you know, we.
Speaker 5: Don't know what is that. And so you'd love if
Speaker 5: if and I love the action, but you'd love if
Speaker 5: there was these.
Speaker 1: Small character moments. Yeah, a line here and there where
Speaker 1: you get to hear guys speak and it feels like
Speaker 1: and this has been the case with the Clone Wars,
Speaker 1: but that made more sense because you're getting like twenty
Speaker 1: three episodes and it was you're bouncing around each episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and each episode like to the extent that there were arcs,
Speaker 1: there was of course, like an overarching, very long range,
Speaker 1: very loose arc, and then there'd be like these tighter
Speaker 1: two and three episode things from time to time, but
Speaker 1: mostly it was like these kind of standalone episodes that
Speaker 1: move generally in a direction. And I feel like that
Speaker 1: doesn't serve an eight episode series. It's a mix because
Speaker 1: it just feels like it feels like we're never gonna
Speaker 1: get to these characters.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a mini series that was meant to center
Speaker 4: them all. I do still feel as much as I
Speaker 4: like these episodes, them all still doesn't feel like the center.
Speaker 1: He feels like he's.
Speaker 4: Sharing this story with other people. And I think in
Speaker 4: an eight part series for a character so deeply beloved,
Speaker 4: with a performer who's so deeply invested in getting this
Speaker 4: character right and pushing his story forward, it seems strange
Speaker 4: to me that you would not open with them all
Speaker 4: and b give us more of a and we get
Speaker 4: a little bit more here, but like more of a
Speaker 4: mental map of like where.
Speaker 1: Is he at?
Speaker 2: How is it day to day?
Speaker 4: This betrayal affecting him beyond him as being like I've
Speaker 4: been betrayed. We get it, bro, But like, what's what
Speaker 4: is deteriorating inside of you?
Speaker 2: What's happening?
Speaker 1: I a gret That's exactly. That's a great way to
Speaker 1: put it, because there is you mentioned his desire to
Speaker 1: assemble his family around him. We're guessing that because he's
Speaker 1: giving us very little giving, he's giving me very little
Speaker 1: of that. And I agree that I think that that
Speaker 1: is his motivation. But you just want it to be
Speaker 1: there more. I know, what do these people mean to you?
Speaker 1: What does guest meet you? What is achresm scored me
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 4: What does it mean to have these people are loyalty
Speaker 4: or do you comp.
Speaker 2: And how is that them?
Speaker 4: There's so much Okay, So I want to ask you guys.
Speaker 4: As a Star Wars fan, we have been all we
Speaker 4: have Star Wars fans essentially for life. Uh, We've been
Speaker 4: all over the place with fan theory, with most people
Speaker 4: loving Star Wars, to most people thinking Star Wars is
Speaker 4: just silly. To now we're sort of in this middle
Speaker 4: ground people like I like Star Wars. I'll check it
Speaker 4: out when it's around. Maybe you know, we're all over
Speaker 4: the place, But I do think we've had to infer
Speaker 4: a lot in the history, and like, is this just
Speaker 4: part of the fandom? Is this something that we should
Speaker 4: just accept as like part of the fandom is you
Speaker 4: have to infer and build and maybe one of its
Speaker 4: essential elements or support is like that. We do have
Speaker 4: so many we could tell further stories and video games.
Speaker 4: We could do it, in comics, we could do it
Speaker 4: in the novels. There's so many places to die if
Speaker 4: we decide to.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: That's part of what has made the fandom so you
Speaker 3: know long, and has thrived for so long, and also
Speaker 3: what kept it alive during.
Speaker 2: The down period, right, I think that's the big thing.
Speaker 3: I think the problem is Disney should not be relying
Speaker 3: on that to keep us going. When we're at a
Speaker 3: point where you can spend as much money as you
Speaker 3: want on it, and you're making flagship shows and you're
Speaker 3: planning movies. That side of the fandom should not be
Speaker 3: having to be tapped into. It's kind of the not
Speaker 3: having the scroll at the beginning of this episode, at
Speaker 3: the beginning of this series, right, you're like, well, the
Speaker 3: fans can infer. It's like no, but but you've got to.
Speaker 2: Tell us where we're at. And then we can expand out.
Speaker 3: I think I love the notion of that, but I
Speaker 3: think also it's almost like a new version of the
Speaker 3: homework issue where you're giving people pre homework, like you
Speaker 3: got to watch the show, and then you've got to
Speaker 3: do homework to make the show good because you need
Speaker 3: to know.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a good way.
Speaker 1: I mean, whoach it? To your point, Rosie, it feels
Speaker 1: under this reading, which I don't know that I one
Speaker 1: hundred percent agree with as like a conscious strategy. But
Speaker 1: under this reading, isn't what we're saying, like kind of
Speaker 1: like the worst version of storytelling, like when LL says
Speaker 1: I have been betrayed but doesn't it but doesn't expound
Speaker 1: or does or doesn't like show don't tell, isn't what
Speaker 1: they're doing hoping that you'll go back and be like, well,
Speaker 1: where was mom betrayed and watched another show? Like, rather
Speaker 1: than make him a flesh and blood pained character experiencing
Speaker 1: pain in that moment in that scene, so that you
Speaker 1: so that you get some context for what happened beyond
Speaker 1: just like that it happens. Yeah, I agree, and I
Speaker 1: don't agree that it's I don't agree that it's a
Speaker 1: conscious strategy that they're doing it that way. Oh, here's
Speaker 1: where we build character and story, and there's where we
Speaker 1: just show action. Here's I just think it's maybe I
Speaker 1: just think it's a little bit of a lazy tick.
Speaker 1: That's all like these could That's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: No, I agree, I'm I'm actually honestly a little bit shocked.
Speaker 3: Not because the show isn't good, Like I do think
Speaker 3: that quality wise it's good. It's like I think that
Speaker 3: it's beautiful to look at. But I am a little
Speaker 3: bit shocked by the choices they're making because I think
Speaker 3: that with an eight you know, eight to ten episodes
Speaker 3: series like this is going to be ten episodes, right,
Speaker 3: we we have the potential even if you only want
Speaker 3: to have more for a couple of minutes in every
Speaker 3: episode because you're worried about overdoing him, right, I think
Speaker 3: you still have the potential for those moments to be
Speaker 3: huge reveals or huge emotional moments. I think just having
Speaker 3: him be like I have been betrayed, it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: we know that. Now the next time we get two
Speaker 3: minutes with more, we got to know how does that feel?
Speaker 3: We got to know why do you care, Like what
Speaker 3: we know, you were betrayed by the empire. That is
Speaker 3: the Sith story. That is kind of what we have
Speaker 3: come to expect, But like.
Speaker 2: How does it make you feel relationship city?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say in a series of betrayals, like
Speaker 4: if we look at Mall's history as he starts out
Speaker 4: to try to be a leader or free his people
Speaker 4: or whatever, like it is a constant, it's never and
Speaker 4: even his mother giving him uh to uh the Emperor
Speaker 4: is like the first betrayal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and so yeah, I think not to.
Speaker 4: Play armchair producer too much, but if we had just
Speaker 4: started this series with the moment of this last betrayal
Speaker 4: and a again, like I mentioned last week, a turn
Speaker 4: to see this is a new version of Mall, which
Speaker 4: is how we always start every Mall story, I think
Speaker 4: we could have forgiven a lot more if we had
Speaker 4: just seen what that moment was and what it meant
Speaker 4: to him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm also going to say, like this is
Speaker 3: the number one thing that we always tell people like
Speaker 3: not to do in screenwriting or in common creation.
Speaker 2: But sometimes you do.
Speaker 3: You can just do an annoying like in media res
Speaker 3: And honestly, I think if they'd have thought it the episode.
Speaker 2: I think if they'd started the season with like.
Speaker 3: A lot of what's in episode four, they would have
Speaker 3: come out swinging a lot higher and a lot harder,
Speaker 3: because like getting to know more, getting to see the
Speaker 3: way that he seduces somebody in a different way, getting
Speaker 3: to see how he draws the lines between the Jedi
Speaker 3: and the Sith, something that fans have been doing for
Speaker 3: a long time. Being in that conversation that feels to
Speaker 3: me like the show this is supposed to be.
Speaker 2: But also we are.
Speaker 3: Almost half the season in YEP, and I just worry
Speaker 3: that the ironically they keep being like, it's not a
Speaker 3: homework show. You're gonna just know everything you need to
Speaker 3: know from watching the show, And ironically, I think that
Speaker 3: by going too hard in that direction, they've actually made
Speaker 3: the show quite hard to pass if you're not already
Speaker 3: a fan, and if you are a fan, you're left
Speaker 3: kind of asking a lot of things, like it's very
Speaker 3: clear that one of the main reasons, aside from probably
Speaker 3: pitching this is Heat Star Wars Heat, which I do
Speaker 3: truly believe now Jason, which I think is a.
Speaker 2: Great comp like we wouldn't want to pitch that, but like, I.
Speaker 3: Also believe that one of the main reasons that they
Speaker 3: introduced the police plotline is because they were like, well,
Speaker 3: people who don't really watch Star Wars, they know who
Speaker 3: the police are, they know there's a detective, they know
Speaker 3: they're following. So it's kind of like how you pitch
Speaker 3: a show like True Blood or Riverdale and you've started
Speaker 3: with a murder mystery, and.
Speaker 1: It's every time they're in.
Speaker 3: The police station, they're just explaining stuff that's happened.
Speaker 2: In previous scenes Star Wars shows.
Speaker 3: So then that's also just starts to feel like, well,
Speaker 3: they're not here for any other reason the next position,
Speaker 3: so they're just I think ironically they they tried to
Speaker 3: play it a bit too safe, is how.
Speaker 2: I'm feeling right now. But maybe that's going to expand
Speaker 2: out as the episode goes on.
Speaker 1: A couple of things about the police I do. I
Speaker 1: do think that part of the conversation around Larson and
Speaker 1: two Boots and having that whole side of the story
Speaker 1: in this was like on some executive level, like, hey,
Speaker 1: can we do something pro cop in like that? It
Speaker 1: does feel like that doesn't And then I just want
Speaker 1: to say that I love love you know, the motivation
Speaker 1: for characters is so important. I love the fact that
Speaker 1: Lawson's entire motivation as a character is one he wants
Speaker 1: to be a good cop, which he's terrible. He's so
Speaker 1: he knows nothing about like the most active he knows
Speaker 1: nothing about the most famous crime syndicates in the galaxy.
Speaker 3: And it's name of the weapon that the Jedi were
Speaker 3: using till a year ago.
Speaker 2: It would like come on.
Speaker 1: And then he's like a clear Jedi, you know, fighting
Speaker 1: with a lightsabers, Like is that a d And then
Speaker 1: so I love that, and then I love also the
Speaker 1: fact that his prime motivation, like is emotional motivation, like
Speaker 1: as a character right now anyway, is that he just
Speaker 1: doesn't want to see his ex wife is all the
Speaker 1: He's just he's like, you do not want to be
Speaker 1: reminded of her, And that's like everything that's going on.
Speaker 1: Why is he breaking protocol? He doesn't want to see
Speaker 1: his his wife. Honestly, in that framing doesn't hilarious. It
Speaker 1: doesn't it make two boots. I think it makes two
Speaker 1: boots more reasonable.
Speaker 2: Craziest thing is like they and again this is part.
Speaker 3: Of the the conversation around that is like you're so right,
Speaker 3: two Boots, he's just trying to follow his program big
Speaker 3: and he's like, bitch, I know, the only reason you
Speaker 3: don't want to call the empire is because.
Speaker 2: Of your wife. You don't want to see your wife.
Speaker 3: There is a mass murderer criminal syndicate here, and you
Speaker 3: just don't want to see your wife.
Speaker 2: She could any time.
Speaker 1: So from that perspective, like, I'm kind of on like,
Speaker 1: obviously I don't want to, you know, the impersion be
Speaker 1: called and that's terrible, but I get it because like
Speaker 1: if I'm you know, if I'm two Boots something and listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting written up. I'm not getting decommissioned for
Speaker 1: not following protocol because want.
Speaker 3: To see his ex wife, dude, seriously, and also as well,
Speaker 3: I was like this man, this man just.
Speaker 2: Conned me off, like he just.
Speaker 1: Want to see his ex wife.
Speaker 2: Everything he's doing right now is because he doesn't want to.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about both the disrespect and the boot licking,
Speaker 4: because I was having some struggles here like two Boots,
Speaker 4: your inability to realize the danger outside of your initial
Speaker 4: programming a feels very strange for the droids we've met.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I know, typically the droids we.
Speaker 4: Meet are.
Speaker 2: Slightly reprogrammed.
Speaker 4: They're liberated in a way, and it makes sense to
Speaker 4: me in a way to explore this side of droid.
Speaker 4: It's like what is the learning? Like, what is the
Speaker 4: way up? If somebody hasn't tinkered you to make you
Speaker 4: have a wider range of you know, vocabulary or thoughts,
Speaker 4: you know, where do you lie in that? And I
Speaker 4: found that really interesting. But then I was also incensed
Speaker 4: when he got shut down.
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you doing? You can't do that.
Speaker 3: I think that is like a big thing here again
Speaker 3: about maybe that balance between like not being too Star
Speaker 3: Wars even trying to get a new audience, but also
Speaker 3: there's certain things that good characters just don't do, and
Speaker 3: turning off a robot to evade like uh them basically
Speaker 3: like keeping an eye on you. That's not a good
Speaker 3: person behavior, Like he deactivates that shit because he doesn't
Speaker 3: want to deal.
Speaker 2: With his ex wife. That's the only reason he turns off.
Speaker 3: Somebody said to you programming because he doesn't want to
Speaker 3: see his wife.
Speaker 2: Sah sorts it out like come on, man, And I
Speaker 2: think as well, I do really.
Speaker 3: Like you read Jason, because I do think that something's
Speaker 3: interesting here is like two Boots is really only doing
Speaker 3: what his programming says anyway, So like he's having to
Speaker 3: battle between the human who is telling him is what
Speaker 3: he has to do, which is going against his coding,
Speaker 3: but not for any good reason. Like he's not going
Speaker 3: against it because he's selling. He should be telling him like, hey,
Speaker 3: there's Jedi here, they're trying to kill the Jedi.
Speaker 2: There's good people. We could be saving everything.
Speaker 3: Instead he's just like, oh my fucking bitch wife. I W.
Speaker 1: I also think that, you know, we have to remember
Speaker 1: that we have so much more information than these characters.
Speaker 1: Two Boots doesn't like they don't know the Empire is bad.
Speaker 1: Maybe they have an inkling that it's not like the
Speaker 1: greatest government in the world definitely sticking their nose in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like the Imperial footprint has been very very light
Speaker 1: on genics. This is clearly like a new thing where
Speaker 1: if theF call in, Like I don't know if that
Speaker 1: was the case with the Republic, where if you had
Speaker 1: major criminals on the planet.
Speaker 2: You had the Republic was very different.
Speaker 3: I think like a few rangers would have showed up
Speaker 3: and picked up the guy.
Speaker 2: He has this fear. I'm gessing we're.
Speaker 3: Gonna lear him why of the empire, essentially like colonizing
Speaker 3: the town and taking it over, which is a good
Speaker 3: normal like rational fear, but also like you really just
Speaker 3: don't want to see your wife.
Speaker 1: And the kind I'm kind of standing up for two
Speaker 1: Boots in a sense. I think he's wrong, but his
Speaker 1: reasoning makes sense. It's like you, you don't you don't
Speaker 1: want to call the empire for it's not like ethical
Speaker 1: moral reasons. It's legitimately just purely personal and it's an
Speaker 1: issue you have with the mother of your child, your ex.
Speaker 3: Wife, by the way, you're abandoning your child. That like
Speaker 3: every fucking.
Speaker 1: All the time, he's.
Speaker 3: He's a latch kid in space playing space lacrosse, So
Speaker 3: I know he's fancy. You're telling me he doesn't have
Speaker 3: it after school club. He could go through space after
Speaker 3: school club.
Speaker 1: I get it. I'm all. I'm all I'm saying is
Speaker 1: like I'm supportive of two Boots. I think to Boots
Speaker 1: is in a very, very tough spot.
Speaker 3: I don't think to Boots has the moral understanding to
Speaker 3: make a good choice there because he has not been
Speaker 3: taught by his alleged partner who would just turn him off.
Speaker 3: That's like the equivalent of like fucking you know, pistol,
Speaker 3: whipping your partner in the head and just leaving him
Speaker 3: because your partner is gonna help you, not help you.
Speaker 2: Also see in your ex wife.
Speaker 1: You know, watching lawson, you know, walk away from his
Speaker 1: kids sports game to go legitimately be the worst pop
Speaker 1: like on Jane X and one of the worst in
Speaker 1: the galaxy. It's like, no wonder you got divorced. They're
Speaker 1: just like, focus on being a good dad. You're not
Speaker 1: solving crimes. You've got this weird girlfriend, a girlfriend who
Speaker 1: who is the one who tells you all the cop
Speaker 1: information that you should already know.
Speaker 2: Yet most of why are you fucking your informant?
Speaker 3: Bro? That's like very uncool. We can see the attention.
Speaker 3: We know you last this is this is my exactly, guys.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I'm sorry to the discord because
Speaker 3: I know you guys know that this must be annoying
Speaker 3: me so much. But like, this is not even about
Speaker 3: my own personal feeling about real cops in real life.
Speaker 3: This is about the issue of adding something that completely
Speaker 3: unravels the understanding that we have of legality.
Speaker 2: And law and the world.
Speaker 3: And once you put something from our real world in there,
Speaker 3: so texturally, with no analogue, you do start asking these questions.
Speaker 3: Whereas before when Cassie and Andor who is not a cop,
Speaker 3: who is at the beginning of his journey in the
Speaker 3: TV series and Or and he's flirting with a woman
Speaker 3: in a bar, you think, oh, well, that's just somebody
Speaker 3: he knows from the underground scene. He's flirting with her.
Speaker 3: Maybe she knows where his sister is. Like those connections,
Speaker 3: you don't have to add this layer onto them. But
Speaker 3: by making them a cop, we have to add these
Speaker 3: realistic layers because they're taking something from our world.
Speaker 2: So I think like.
Speaker 3: By simply them adding him, it makes us have more
Speaker 3: conversations about him, which is very annoying to me because
Speaker 3: this should be about Darth Maul. But the same thing,
Speaker 3: as I said, guys Generation five, my Little Pony, same
Speaker 3: thing happened, Like you add a cop to a fantasy
Speaker 3: world without caught, well let me and you have to
Speaker 3: reframe the entire show to fit into this new legal framework.
Speaker 3: It's very strange.
Speaker 1: Well, this is just the legal framework on janis to
Speaker 1: you know, give them some support with the plot line.
Speaker 1: I will say one here here is now this is
Speaker 1: just my pure headcanon reading. Lawson is very very depressed
Speaker 1: after his divorce from his wife. Definitely who has you know,
Speaker 1: I guess they had political disagreements as many as many
Speaker 1: couples may do. You know, like he didn't agree with
Speaker 1: the imperial side of things.
Speaker 3: She's obviously Oscar partner first if you'll pro empire, that's
Speaker 3: a first eight question, but sure.
Speaker 1: That And so I think he's very very depressed. I
Speaker 1: think he's trying to do cops side by cop ik
Speaker 1: he's trying to. I think he's trying to. I think
Speaker 1: he's trying to get killed in the line of Dude,
Speaker 1: he is so bad.
Speaker 3: That I would believe that he's like those He's like
Speaker 3: that lays it so it looks like it would kill
Speaker 3: you quickly chop the head. That he doesn't have to
Speaker 3: worry about paying the credits and the space Lacrosse and
Speaker 3: the private school that Riley clearly goes to.
Speaker 1: I think that's where the recklessness comes from. I think
Speaker 1: that's where like the out of control personal life comes from.
Speaker 1: I think he's just like I think he wants out
Speaker 1: and the only way he could think of, and he's
Speaker 1: turning off his partner, like I think the only thing
Speaker 1: that he could think of is maybe if I get
Speaker 1: like killed by these gangsters, Okay, do you they all end,
Speaker 1: my pain will end. I think that I could believe
Speaker 1: think about her anymore.
Speaker 3: I know He's like, I would think about my empire
Speaker 3: wife anymore, my whole empire wife. And also like, do
Speaker 3: you think if he dies that his that Riley would
Speaker 3: get money and the line of because he died in
Speaker 3: the line of so you know, maybe he's planning as
Speaker 3: well for Riley's future. He's like, he'll have some credits
Speaker 3: to put away as long as my bitch ex wife
Speaker 3: doesn't get them.
Speaker 1: A lot.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you.
Speaker 3: This is what I'm telling you from a storytelling point
Speaker 3: of view. Every other time that we have come across
Speaker 3: like a cop analog the jedis of space cops. Everyone
Speaker 3: always says that, you know, oh, the Republic Rangers, like
Speaker 3: we love them, but ACAB like, you know, we have
Speaker 3: these jokes, but you never actually have to have the
Speaker 3: conversations because they are not cops. They literally call this
Speaker 3: place the police headquarters, like they did this to themselves.
Speaker 3: Like if you make that but yeah, it went bleak,
Speaker 3: it went dark. Maybe Loss is gonna die the biggest.
Speaker 1: Cross I mean, this is he's the Is he the
Speaker 1: first canonical wife guy in Star Wars history?
Speaker 2: Akrov?
Speaker 1: No, but yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4: Even Knobe did not marry Seteen. I'm gonna account him
Speaker 4: as a wife.
Speaker 3: Guy that was Actually you know what, he is actually
Speaker 3: the closest canonically to like a modern wife guy where
Speaker 3: it's about loving your wife being But there have been some.
Speaker 3: Star Wars is a series of stories about men who
Speaker 3: can't emotionally regulate around women.
Speaker 1: For sure, Lonson is only the latest. Let what cohind.
Speaker 4: Okay okay one. I don't know if you guys know,
Speaker 4: but Mal has a gauntlet fighter. It's called the Knight Brother.
Speaker 4: Will we get these Ickerson scorn actually out here being
Speaker 4: Night Brothers and God?
Speaker 1: I hope so.
Speaker 4: I love them so much just in designs, Jason, do
Speaker 4: you not listen? My hopes remain high. I love these brothers.
Speaker 4: I don't know anything about them. I just know that
Speaker 4: Mal was like, I have to have these two. That
Speaker 4: makes me so excited. I hope he gives them some
Speaker 4: I don't know, brotherly advise, even if we just b brothers.
Speaker 1: That would be to me, it would be great and
Speaker 1: I want it, but I'm not confident. It feels like
Speaker 1: a production note that they got was it's confusing. They
Speaker 1: look like Mall, but they're not Mall because the way
Speaker 1: they shoot them so in the background, like whenever you
Speaker 1: see them, even when it's the scene of them, they
Speaker 1: it's like a it's a it's a full shot, like
Speaker 1: it's a far away shot. They put them way back
Speaker 1: and it's clear that what they are I think what
Speaker 1: they're trying to do is not confuse people on oh
Speaker 1: is that Mall? It's not Mall, like the scene where
Speaker 1: the confin is the story yeah, notwithstanding, and so it
Speaker 1: just feels like adjacent to that note is, well, if
Speaker 1: we give them any lines, people are going to be
Speaker 1: they're gonna be like Mall's voice is different now, and
Speaker 1: so I just feel like they're not gonna do it.
Speaker 1: It just feels like they're not gonna.
Speaker 4: You're saying, make sense, but I don't like.
Speaker 2: I love this. I love the brothers.
Speaker 3: That the crazy thing to me, and I think this
Speaker 3: is a Dave Feloney issue, sadly, is like I do
Speaker 3: feel like we're going to get a really great.
Speaker 2: Comic spin off about the brothers or a book spin.
Speaker 3: Saying but like, but like my su like, we need
Speaker 3: to be making characters that we can also enjoy in
Speaker 3: the text of the thing, like do you do not
Speaker 3: need to constantly be making new Bob effects, like new
Speaker 3: cool characters that we're going to be talking about years after.
Speaker 3: We need characters who are good in the show. I
Speaker 3: love the brotherly aspect. I hope they're gonna do it
Speaker 3: to reflect more and oppress. I don't mean that I
Speaker 3: hope one of them dies, but like, I hope that
Speaker 3: there is a brotherly reflection there. This feels like a
Speaker 3: show that we should be getting bottle episodes about each
Speaker 3: of these characters and how they came to.
Speaker 2: Be part of Maule's story. Unfortunately, I don't know that
Speaker 2: we're gonna get that. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm just still confused by what the show is. I'm
Speaker 3: happy to have it, but it is not hitting even
Speaker 3: in the way that like the bad batchhit for me,
Speaker 3: which I felt like was like a game changing masterpiece
Speaker 3: when it came out.
Speaker 2: This still feels like.
Speaker 3: It's in the works to me, and hopefully if there's
Speaker 3: more seasons. If we get more, it is gonna be additive.
Speaker 3: But at the moment, I'm kind of confused.
Speaker 4: We get this quote, because we get this quote that
Speaker 4: I think clarified a lot for me about the series.
Speaker 4: It's from Mall. He says, you survive, but you do
Speaker 4: not live. You should lead and be respected by all.
Speaker 4: I'm not crawling on your hands and knees begging to live.
Speaker 4: It is your unwillingness to use your powers that makes
Speaker 4: you weak. That is your delusion. He's talking to Daku Debi. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: like Devin and Dacu are there.
Speaker 2: But I think.
Speaker 4: He's like this this moment of like this unwillingness to
Speaker 4: use your powers, and it really gravitates and centers Mall
Speaker 4: and like an all or nothing sots it again, you
Speaker 4: have to read in to the desperation of it, because
Speaker 4: you don't he doesn't feel desperate, but like that the
Speaker 4: intonation of that line, like it gives me a lot
Speaker 4: to work with and it gives me a lot of hope.
Speaker 3: But it does kind of sound like he's talking about himself. Yeah,
Speaker 3: which is interesting.
Speaker 4: It is interesting, and I think too, Uh if I
Speaker 4: could end on one final like really high note, for me,
Speaker 4: we pretty much get a third duel of the fates.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, let's talk about that. Let's because that is
Speaker 2: really cool.
Speaker 4: Master and Apprentice versus Mall. And within that fight, he says,
Speaker 4: your master is indeed lucky to have you by his side.
Speaker 4: Like the yearning for Mall to just be seen by
Speaker 4: another force user.
Speaker 1: I really did.
Speaker 2: He just wants some he wants a apprentice. So two
Speaker 2: of these.
Speaker 4: People going through life side by side, defending and supporting
Speaker 4: each other. No one defender supports me. Although again, while
Speaker 4: I think you're not seeing people right next to you,
Speaker 4: which can happen when you're longing, I just really I
Speaker 4: thought the fight seeing coordination was really strong. I think again,
Speaker 4: the artwork for this.
Speaker 1: So good. It's truly beautiful.
Speaker 4: And I think too, if we think about, like what
Speaker 4: does it mean for Mall to step up and face
Speaker 4: a master and apprentic Like we've seen him face Ahsoka
Speaker 4: and Anakin, we've seen him face Qui Gon and Obi Wan,
Speaker 4: I think it says a lot about his like both
Speaker 4: his desire for and his need to destroy any Like
Speaker 4: he's like, you should not get to have this, essentially
Speaker 4: like you to teach her you're not learning everything because
Speaker 4: Jedi inherently are like I learned the Jedi way, and
Speaker 4: that's it. We move forward, and I think there's an
Speaker 4: unworthiness he sees in docu, and I hope we kind
Speaker 4: of get more into that as the series goes on.
Speaker 4: It was my favorite thing was interacting with Ezra and Canaan.
Speaker 3: M first final question, guys, does Devin become Maul's apprentice
Speaker 3: before the end of this season?
Speaker 4: Well, we know that George has thought about having like
Speaker 4: a Twilight a twilet apprentice with Mal, like that's that's
Speaker 4: something that's been talked about for a long time. We've
Speaker 4: seen different drawing iterations of her. I think several characters
Speaker 4: were inspired by this potential character. I would like to
Speaker 4: see Mall walk away with an apprentice that then you
Speaker 4: have lots of storyline and time to like kill off
Speaker 4: or leave him before we pop back into Mall storyline again.
Speaker 4: But I think because of where Mal ends up, and
Speaker 4: given the goody two shoes cop bootleger nature of the
Speaker 4: show so far, it's unlikely.
Speaker 1: I also think that the the the overall debate darker
Speaker 1: light It was interesting. I thought over the first couple
Speaker 1: of episodes because it really seemed like we were framing
Speaker 1: the Jedi side of things as almost like irredeemably weak.
Speaker 2: And out of touch.
Speaker 1: Yes, but but it's we've it seems like that's flipped
Speaker 1: completely the other way now, and that Devin is like,
Speaker 1: I've gotten a taste of mall. He dueled me, wanted
Speaker 1: me to be his apprentice, and I don't like it,
Speaker 1: and I'm going all the way back to the light,
Speaker 1: even though it means like I'm gonna starve, and my
Speaker 1: master occasionally turns me into the police.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: You can't even eat one apple or you're going to
Speaker 3: the cops, babe.
Speaker 2: No, my I think that there is a.
Speaker 3: Version where in you know, the finale, the last two episodes,
Speaker 3: something so terrible happens to Daky in the space of
Speaker 3: the police or trying to do the right thing that
Speaker 3: she may consider going with Mare, And I think that
Speaker 3: could be very interesting.
Speaker 2: But I need to know more about Devon.
Speaker 3: I feel like you can't just introduce a character like
Speaker 3: this after introducing so many iconic follow up kind of
Speaker 3: Jedi post Order sixty six Jedi Canaan Ezra Ahsoka, like
Speaker 3: you you are this is a league of legends, like
Speaker 3: literally like a legacy of iconic new characters here. I
Speaker 3: just don't know that Devon's got the juice. I need
Speaker 3: to see her get that juice. But I'm excited to
Speaker 3: see where it goes, and I'm hoping we do end
Speaker 3: with them at least on the same side for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: But we still got six episodes to go, so so
Speaker 2: let's see.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Extra Vision, We're diving into
Speaker 1: Daredevil two oh five. That's it for this episode. Thanks
Speaker 1: for the same X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason
Speaker 1: Cepcion and Rosie Knight and as a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Carmen Laurent, Dean Johnson, and Bay Wack.
Speaker 1: I've Seen song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator.