1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Before we get started with this episode, we 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: have one last live show to announce for We will 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: be in New Orleans, Louisiana, at the National World War 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: Two Museum on Tuesday, November six. Okay, we know that 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: selection day, but we don't want coming to our show 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: to keep you from the polls. We are both going 7 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: to vote early before we leave for New Orleans, and 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: Louisiana offers early voting as well, so we encourage you 9 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: to do so. You can find out more about this 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: show and get a link to buy tickets at missed 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: in History dot com slash tour. Hey, Happy Saturday, everybody. 12 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Since it is October, we are revisiting a past Halloween episode. 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: This one is from It is by hosts Katie and Sarah, 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 1: and it is about Franz Mesmer and the creation of Mesmerism. 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: They get into everything from how Mesmerism influenced the field 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: of psychology to the truly horrifying and even deadly stunts 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: that people did during stage shows, both to try to 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: prove that Mesmerism was real and to prove that it 19 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: was not. So enjoy Welcome to Stuff you missed in 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: History class from How Stuff Works dot com Hello, and 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Katie Lambert and I'm Sarah 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: Dowdy and this makes me feel pretty victorian. But I 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: want to let everybody know that I have been to 24 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: a hypnosis show before, and I think, Katie, you have 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: to yeah, back in college, Back in college, e g. A. 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: The show I went to was in the gym, and 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: the hypnotist, you know, brought out folks from the audience. 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: We did some of them out and then supposedly hypnotized 29 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: the rest. And it was tame. You know. They didn't 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: do anything that they would be terribly ashamed of. There 31 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: is actually like chickens and like flapped all around this 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: series and clucking Britney spears dancing. I would have done 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: that without being hypnotized, and basic like slumping in your seat. 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: There was definitely no poe king with needles or shooting 35 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: of guns or knives under fingernails, which I'm really glad 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: of because I think that would have made me very 37 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: uncomfortable to see at a college performance. No, I want 38 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: my money's worth. Oh gosh, Well, okay, it's finally almost Halloween. 39 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: We've been talking about these spooky topics for the past month. 40 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: And we're going to bring our series to a cloth 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: with a little discussion of hypnosis. We probably saw that coming, 42 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: specifically its predecessor mesmerism, which if you've ever heard of it, 43 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: it's probably in relation to the word mesmerize, and it's 44 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: pretty weird and spooky on its own, but it's also 45 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: connected to so many famous names that it starts to 46 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: get pretty interesting, especially for US history lovers. The string 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: of people connected to it don't always have all that 48 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: much in common. An illustrious list, though it is very 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: yes and um, when you look at some of the 50 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: literature of the time time, it becomes really clear that 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: regardless of whether people thought it was a scam or not, 52 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: it had a big influence on the public consciousness during 53 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,799 Speaker 1: the Enlightenment and then again during the Victorian era, which 54 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: is what I always connected to as well. Definitely, all right, 55 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: so Katie, let's get hypnotized mesmerized. Alright, So we're gonna 56 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: start with friends Anton Mesmer, who, um, you know, hypnosis 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: had been around for a long time, obviously connected with 58 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: sorcery and magic and medicine, but it's scientific history started 59 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: with this Mesmer guy. He was born in what is 60 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: now Germany in seventeen thirty four and he attended the 61 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: University of Vienna, and in seventeen sixty six he wrote 62 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: his dissertation on animal gravitation. And that sounds not at 63 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: all like what it is, but his ideas were partly 64 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: inspired by this British physician named Richard Mead. But Mesmer's 65 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: idea was that we all had this invisible fluid inside 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: of us, and in fact everything in nature had this 67 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: invisible fluid, and the fluid was controlled by the gravitational 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: attraction of the planet, so like the moon and tide exactly, 69 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: so like you have internal tides inside your body. And 70 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy three he met patient fraud Line Alsterlin, 71 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: who had some physical problems, and Mesmer decided to put 72 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: his theories to the test. Let's see if her tidal 73 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: fluctuations are out of balance. So he trying to create 74 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: this artificial tide inside of her by having her swallow 75 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: and iron solution, which sounds terrible, but Sarah was reminding me, 76 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: there is iron in my serious sprinkle it in he'd 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: ever did that high school chemistry experiment. Then he put 78 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: magnets on her stomach and legs, and she said she 79 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: felt this occult force, this fluid in her body and 80 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: began to feel better, and eventually she completely recovered after 81 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: a few treatments. So obviously, you know, word gets around 82 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: about something like that happening, and over time Mesmer tweaked 83 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: his theory and renamed it animal magnetism, which again doesn't 84 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: sound like what it is um, and he considered that 85 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: the fluid followed the laws of magnetism, so it's weird. 86 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: But at this point everything was starting to seem a 87 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: little more legit and scientific. There's some vague science following laws, 88 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: but it also got weirder and more ritualistic, and that's 89 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: partly because of the rituals Mesmer himself attached to it. 90 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: He figured that disease was the result of fluid blockages 91 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: or some sort of dis equilibrium of these internal tides 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 1: and the operator. So the I mean what we would 93 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: consider the hypnotists today, the mesmerist um could help restore 94 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: that balance by acting as a conduit to the greater 95 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: world of magnetic fluid. So you couldn't access that magnetic 96 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: fluid just alone, but somebody else could do it for 97 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: a powerful operation. And this was done with a magnetized 98 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: object or by the passing of hands over the patient 99 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: called magnetic passes, and eventually the patient would experience what 100 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: he called a crisis, which was a trance, sometimes ending 101 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: in convulsions and delirium. Wheel We found this all a 102 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: bit suggestive, very suggestive, especially when you consider that most 103 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: of the patients are women and he's a guy. So 104 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: he even came up with a special tool that he 105 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: invented for the purpose of treating multiple patients at once, 106 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: called I Think a bucket, And unsurprisingly he gets famous 107 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: for his crazy semi pseudo scientific antics. Mozart is a 108 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: follower and he even performs music and Mesmer's honor and then, 109 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: also unsurprisingly, there's a scandal and the Viennese physicians expose 110 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: Mesmers of fraud. He leaves Austria in disgrace and goes 111 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: to Paris in seventeen seventy eight, and he finds a 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: pretty willing audience in Paris, and that's partly because the 113 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: city was already so awash and all these discussions and 114 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: demonstrations of gravity and magnetism and electricity. So this idea 115 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: about this magnetic force and fluid in your body seemed 116 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: to fit more or less in with the rest of it, 117 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: and he would set the mood for these demonstrations playing 118 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: the instrument du jour, which was Franklin's glass harmonica, to 119 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: induce deeper trances, and Sarah says, you have to go 120 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: listen to it, which having it, I don't think you can. 121 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: I could never describe what it sounds like, but I mean, 122 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of like if you've ever seen anybody play 123 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: crystals with water, except they're all stocked on top of 124 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: each other, and it can be played seamlessly, so you're 125 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: not chiming away at it. It's a very eerie, mysterious 126 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: sound and just sort of a weird side note on 127 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: the glass harmonica. Um, Eventually people thought that it was 128 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: dangerous to your mental health, so it's sort of ironic 129 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: that it's being used in conjunction with treatment and mesmerism. 130 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: They thought that listening to the glass harmonica if you 131 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: were already in a delicate state, could possibly cause mental illness, 132 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: so maybe you shouldn't listen to it. Actually, maybe in 133 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: small dose. Are you okay so far? Are you feeling 134 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: like that? I'm feeling all right. I don't know. I 135 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: only listened to like a couple of YouTube videos worth 136 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: I'll check in with you tomorrow. But Marie Antoinette really 137 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: liked Mesmer and he was I think she was just 138 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: bored at that court. To be perfectly honest, he was 139 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: frequently invited to the French court to perform for the Queen, 140 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: but that ultimately proved to be his downfall because Louis 141 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: the sixteenth was not so into this whole thing. He's 142 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: a skeptic, so he put together a commission to investigate 143 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: Mesmer's science quote unquote. The members include Ben Franklin, Antoine Lavoisier, 144 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: the Paris mayor, Gen Bay, and even doctors. Doctor Joseph Giuta, 145 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: who um, you know it's behind something that sounds a 146 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: little might do his name, Yeah, Weirdly, a few of 147 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: the commission members meet their fate with the real deal. 148 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: Don't get into pseudoscience. Then Franklin is a bit sickly 149 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: at the time, so this commission works from his house. 150 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: And Mesmer, of course, you know, he's he wants to 151 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: defend his reputation, he has to defend it, but he 152 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: also wants to distance himself from the commission. You don't 153 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: want to go there. Mesmer himself and demonstrate your theories 154 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: and your ideas and have it all blow up in 155 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: your face, especially if you have a suspicion that you 156 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: might be a bit of a fraud. It won't work 157 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: quite right. Or maybe maybe you wouldn't even think that, 158 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: you would just think of the commission wouldn't get it right. 159 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: So Mesmer sends an assistant, Dr Charles Doeslin to represent him. 160 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: That way, you know, if this guy messes up, Mesmer 161 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: can blame it on him, So it doesn't demonstrated of 162 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: the mesmerism techniques for the panel. At one point he 163 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: magnetized a tree and then had this subject I d 164 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: the tree that had the most force. Unfortunately, the twelve 165 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: year old blindfolded boy starts going in the wrong direction, saying, 166 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: you know, I feel the force increasing tree A going 167 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: down the line of trees going further and further away 168 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: from the tree. I can just imagine the guy watching 169 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: this and you know, basin in hand well, and then 170 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: the kid fainted. Yeah, and that put an end to 171 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: the demonstration. So a few of these and the commission 172 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: concludes that there's no scientific evidence behind mesmerism. They publish 173 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: a report and that's really that for Mesmer himself in Paris, 174 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: he falls out of favor almost immediately he dies in obscurity, 175 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: but he does not fall out of memory. Now he's 176 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,439 Speaker 1: still in the back of everyone's heads. One of his 177 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: main fans is our mom Marie Jacques to Shastana, who 178 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: is a marquis and an aristocrat who starts doing these 179 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: experiments with Mesmerism with the help of a young man 180 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: on his estate even before Mesmer was out of commission, 181 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: and the marquis would hypnotize the guy and then leave 182 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: him with no memory. And he came to believe that 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: the magnetic effects depended on the operator's belief on the 184 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: rapport with the patient. So more like the two people 185 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: involved in it and the relationship between the two than 186 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: just I am mass mesmerization that Mesmer himself was doing. 187 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: And um, it's interesting. You know, the guy who he's 188 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: working with will talk quite openly when he's in this 189 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: mesmerized state. Tell um, you know, tell this aristocratic master 190 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: of his things that he wouldn't normally say, like I 191 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: had a fight with my sister. And then after he 192 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: gets some advice on how to deal with it, he 193 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: has no recollection, but he still acts on the advice 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: weird stuff like that, So it still sounds kind of 195 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: out there. But the Marquees work in seventeen eighty four 196 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: on his experiments are sometimes considered the start of modern psychotherapy. 197 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: And I mean I can see that to a certain extent. 198 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: They're talking to each other and trying hit drawing out 199 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 1: everything out there. Yeah, So mes barism really started to 200 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: get its second wind in the eighteen thirties and forties. 201 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: It spread to the United States and influenced William James, 202 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: the psychologist and the brother of Henry James, and it 203 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: was simultaneously supported and disproven in eighteen forty three by 204 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: the English doctor James Braid. He concluded that this whole 205 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: fluid idea was nonsense, but he also decided that these 206 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: physical effects were real and they are produced by quote 207 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: a peculiar condition of the nervous system induced by a 208 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: fixed and abstracted attention end quote. So this is a 209 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: real thing. You induce it through this, through this process, 210 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: and then it does have effects on your nervous It 211 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with magnetic fluids internal times. And 212 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: so trying to distance this idea, trying to distance the 213 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: effects of mesmerism from mesmerism itself, which has this shady reputation. 214 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: Braid coins a few new terms. One of them is 215 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: hypnotism and other is hypnosis, and he starts to investigate 216 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: the applications of hypnosis in paralysis and rheumatism, and you know, 217 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: just treating it more like a possible medical science. French 218 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,479 Speaker 1: doctors and scientists follow his lead, and by the eighties 219 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: scientists really start tackling hypnosis as you know, as a 220 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: real thing. And at this point we can separate hypnosis 221 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: from mesmerism. But don't think that mesmerism went away. It 222 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: just science took a different track. I'm thinking parallel traic y, 223 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: we're going to get back to the torism. But these 224 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: more modern scientists accepted that, yeah, definitely doesn't involve physical forces, 225 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: no fluid. Instead, it had something to do with your mind. 226 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: And Sigmund Freud actually got really interested in hypnosis, and 227 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: it's something that had a very big effect on psychology, 228 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: even though he abandoned it pretty quickly for free association. 229 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: It was just too hard to actually get people into it. 230 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: Translates that rapport Freud and um. By World War one 231 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: world War two, we have hypnosis being used on returning soldiers, 232 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and it's not just a sideshow act anymore. It's part 233 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: of psychology. But interestingly, we still don't understand what hypnosis 234 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: really is. There's no generally accepted explanation for how it works. Yeah, 235 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: but I'm going to go back to mesmerism, which did 236 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: become a bit of a sideshow act and yet still 237 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: was considered somewhat yes, quasi medical. So between the eighteen 238 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: forties and eighteen eighties, mesmerism got completely drawn into this, 239 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: both spiritualism and stage demonstration. So it's a pop called 240 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: sure hit. But if you were a self respecting physician 241 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: there is you wouldn't even touch that with tempo pole. 242 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: It would ruin your career. But if you were an 243 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: itinerant mesmerist, you might have a pretty good career. That's 244 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: my backup career. Actually, I think you could. I think 245 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: you could pull it off, Katie Um. So these folks 246 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: would travel around Britain, travel around different countries and perform 247 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: these shows, and the shows would bring in a paying audience, 248 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: but the main point of them was to try to 249 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: attract private clients for personal treatment, because they would give 250 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: you the big box for mesmerizing them. And you think 251 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: that these shows might sound fine, kind of like the U. G. 252 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: A shows we described at the beginning, But the knives 253 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: under fingernails. I was not making that up. That's unfortunately 254 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: a real thing. Well and and worse, let's see, we've 255 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: got a pouring acid on the skin, administering electric shocks, 256 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: putting ammonia in people's mouths, firing pistols near their ears. 257 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: And the weird thing about this is it's not just 258 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: the mesmerists who are doing this to try to prove 259 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: that it's real. It's skeptics. So people would come to 260 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: this saying mesmerism is fake. I can disprove it by 261 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: you know, firing a pistol by this stand up. Yeah, 262 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: so you would end up with just escalating brutalities on 263 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: these poor supposedly mesmerized people. And um, you know it 264 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: worked to both ends. If the patient jumped when the 265 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: gun was fired by her ear, it's a fake. You know, 266 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: we've exposed it. If nothing happened, then people thought either 267 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: it was all real or it was such good fakery 268 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: that it was really really sick and disturbing. In case 269 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: you're wondering about why we titled our podcast what We Did. 270 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: That's from a New York Times article from and the 271 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: head The headline is he was killed by mesmerism exclamation 272 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: formation point and I mean when I when I read it, 273 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: it's it's about this young man, Spurgeon young who died 274 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: after a few days illness and quote. It is now 275 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: claimed that death resulted from injuries received while under mesmeric 276 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: influence at the hands of amateurs in this science corner, 277 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: Bowers has summoned to jury and will make a thorough investigation. Um. 278 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: It's easy to see how somebody could be killed under 279 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: an amateur mesmerist demonstration if you read some of these 280 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: things they did to people well, and some people started 281 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: connecting this, this idea of this you know, unconscious state 282 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: with surgery, thinking well, exactly, maybe this is a good 283 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: way to get people through something like amputation. Mesmeric and 284 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: anesthesia was used to amputate the leg at the thigh 285 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: of a forty two year old man named James Womble, 286 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: who said he didn't feel anything. Um, but it was 287 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: obviously crowded out before it could it going. That's why 288 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: you haven't heard many stories about mesmeric anesthesia, because you know, 289 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: things like ether came into you instead, which another sort 290 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: of strange side note there, ether and nitrous oxide were 291 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: they originally had applications on the stage before they were 292 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: thought of for medical purposes. Really yeah, kind of a strange. 293 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine going to like the cool ether 294 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: show in town, but who knows. So with these itinerant performances, 295 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: these debates, people getting amputations in our mesmeric trance mesmerism 296 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: becomes a very contentious thing and the perfect plot point 297 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: for a Romantic or Victorian writer to pursue these altered 298 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: states of consciousness into the altered states of especially those 299 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: achieved through opium um but also quite effectively done through hypnosis, sleepwalking, 300 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: and trance. Because not every story can have the opium 301 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: euter and know, some of them just have to plane 302 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: try so. According to this book Bram Stoker and The 303 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: Man Who Is Dracula, there's a whole genre of mesmeric 304 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: novels that combine Gothic elements, you know, things that were 305 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: we're familiar with in much earlier fiction, with these more 306 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: modern scientific ideas. And we have Daniel Dormer, The Mesmerist Secret, 307 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: Edward Harron Allen's The Princess Daphne, and obviously Bram Stoker's Dracula, 308 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: which is published a little late in the game. For 309 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: some of this mesmerist stuff, Um, it was definitely not 310 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: in anymore the science wasn't but it's used to great 311 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: effect by Stoker. Yes, this is one of my favorite 312 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: books of all time and has a prominent place on 313 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: my bookshelf. But the character of Lucy is often sleepwalking. 314 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: The vampire uses mesmerism to satisfy his blood lust, and 315 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: Van Helsing uses it to fight back. It's it's a 316 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: central point in how everything happens, and and observing what 317 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: someone is like in a trance and what they can 318 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: do when they're in this altered state of consciousness, things 319 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: against their will. Even so, another famous horror writer too, 320 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: used it to pretty great effect. That's Edgar Allan Poe. 321 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: He became interested in mesmerism after he attended this lecture 322 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: by Andrew Jackson Davis, and his most famous story on 323 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: mesmerism is the Facts in the Case of Monsieur Valdemar, 324 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: and the story was so good that people thought it 325 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: might be true, even though it sounds incredibly outrageous. Just 326 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: give you like a brief plot outline here, there's this 327 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: mesmerist and he's interested in the effect of hypnosis on 328 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: a dying person. So he reaches out to this dying 329 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: friend and gets his approval to try to hypnotize him 330 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: on his deathbed. He puts the guy into a state 331 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: of hypnosis, and then the guy starts to talk and says, 332 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: I'm dead even though he's in this trance state. And 333 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: the guy just remains like that, in this inert state 334 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: for months and months without a pulse, just in this 335 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: death trance, half living, half dead, And finally the narrator 336 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: jostles him out of the trance by repeatedly saying dead, dead, dead, 337 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: And when he comes to he immediately rots because he's 338 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: been sitting there for months dead and turns into this 339 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: puddle of goo. So I have to read this immediately. 340 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: I think it sounds like a really great use of mesmerism. 341 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't always used though, in that that horrifying kind 342 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: of way. People weren't always rotting and falling into puddles. Unfortunately, 343 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: just with a psychological kind of twist. You had a 344 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: couple examples, I think wild in the picture of Dorian Gray. Yeah, 345 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: and even Walt Whitman in poetry The Sleepers and Song 346 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: of Myself and Dickens, who is of course arguably the 347 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: most famous so novel. He is weird. He was very 348 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: much influenced by mesmerism. In fact, he takes it a 349 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: step beyond somebody like po or Wild. He's actually a 350 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: mesmerist himself. He performed mesmerism on his wife in Pittsburgh 351 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: and then yeah, of course on this other lady in 352 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: eighteen forty four. Classic Dickens for you, and his final 353 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: unfinished novel, The Mystery of Edwin Drewd, is about an 354 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: evil mesmerist who sexually manipulates women through hypnosis, which I 355 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: have never heard of that book before, really, Candice a 356 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: former co host um for y'all, who remember from way 357 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: back in the day, she's reading Drewd by Dan Simmons, 358 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: and I was trying to decide it's kind of a 359 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: takeoff on that if I had to read The Unfinished 360 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,719 Speaker 1: Mystery of Edmund Drewd before, so you can let me know, um. 361 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: But that does raise an interesting point about mesmeris and 362 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: when we brought up earlier that it's pretty sexual. The 363 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: patients are nearly almost all these women, uh, something that 364 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: may have helped that literary success damsels and probably heard 365 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: its medical reputation too. And there's also that that crime 366 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: angle of being hypnotized and doing things against your will, 367 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: which that appears in literature for way longer. It's even 368 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: in You'll you'll hear actual defenses using that. Aside from literature, 369 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: I always hypnotized. Um, I don't know what to say 370 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: about even how there's some sleep walking murder stories. I 371 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: wrote an article for the website how stuff works dot 372 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: com how sleepwalking works, and I was reading many defenses 373 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: that people have given. I had no idea I killed 374 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: my wife. I was sleep walking. Thank you so much 375 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: for joining us for this Saturday classic. Since this is 376 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: out of the archive, if you heard an email address 377 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: or a Facebook you are l or something similar during 378 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: the course of the show, that may be obsolete now. 379 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: So here is our current contact information. We are at 380 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: a story podcasts at how stuff works dot com, and 381 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: then we're at missed in the history all over social media. 382 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: That is our name on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Pinterest, and Instagram. 383 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening. For more on this and thousands 384 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot com.