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Speaker 1: It was a coup attempt. We were almost on the

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Speaker 1: brink of a Russian civil war, or at least that's

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Speaker 1: what we're being told. So what actually happened between the

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Speaker 1: Wagner Group and Russian forces. We'll talk to one woman

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Speaker 1: who says that she believes it's a false flag operation.

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Speaker 1: So why would Putin do that? What does it mean

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Speaker 1: and why does she say that. Rebecca Koffler will be

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Speaker 1: joining the show. She's a strategic military intelligence analyst who

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Speaker 1: served as a Russian doctrine and strategy specialist in the

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Speaker 1: Defense Intelligence Agency. She's also the author of the book

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Speaker 1: Putin's Playbook. She's been on the show before. She's going

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Speaker 1: to break this all down for us. You know what

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Speaker 1: really happened between Progosian, the leader of the Wagner Group,

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Speaker 1: and Russian forces. Stay tuned, Rebecca. It's great to have

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Speaker 1: you back on the show. I appreciate you making the time.

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Speaker 2: Of course, happy to be hailed with you on your audience.

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Speaker 1: You know, so, Rebecca, we all watched what is being called,

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Speaker 1: you know, a Russian civil or a coup attempt. What

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Speaker 1: do you think actually happened between the Wagner Group and

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Speaker 1: Russian forces?

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Speaker 2: The first thing that I want to say is that

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't trust Putin Prigorsian anymore than I would trust

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Speaker 2: the US intelligence community or the mainstream media. My intelligence

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Speaker 2: assessment tells me that what we just saw is that

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Speaker 2: a false flag operation orchestrated by Russian intelligence with Puttent's

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Speaker 2: approval and uh UH in coordination with Prigorsian, uh Bela,

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Speaker 2: Russian President Lukashenko, and if you in the note in

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Speaker 2: the Russian establishment, that is exactly what happened. It's it's syops.

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Speaker 2: It's what we call in the intelligence business. Is that

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Speaker 2: both flag UH psychological operation or in Russian intelligence polance,

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Speaker 2: it's musket off deception, and it's consistent with the Russian doctrine,

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Speaker 2: reflects the control that was specifically designed to keep your

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Speaker 2: adversor of balance and to confuse the adversary to the

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Speaker 2: point of paralysis where the adversary starts making decisions counter

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Speaker 2: to his interests. That's what we've seen and exactly what's

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Speaker 2: happening right now. The US media is confused, whether Biden

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Speaker 2: is confused, who just a few minutes ago announced that

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Speaker 2: Putin is losing the war in the rock. No one

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Speaker 2: can make any sense of information that we're being bombarded now,

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Speaker 2: we're not being told the truth.

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Speaker 1: Some are saying that this tarnishes Putin's image back home,

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Speaker 1: does it?

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Speaker 2: No, never, not that home in the West. Yes, it

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Speaker 2: does chinnish his image. The Western media is screaming Putin

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Speaker 2: is et cetera. But it's quite the opposite. In Russian

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Speaker 2: Russians don't think like Americans. They think like Russians. So

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Speaker 2: the Russians are actually praising Putin right now for and

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Speaker 2: I quote for chasing away the traders. Right So, Putin,

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Speaker 2: right after the so called kup made the address to

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Speaker 2: the Russian people in which he invoked the nineteen seventeen revolutions.

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Speaker 2: And there's very few there are very few things that

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Speaker 2: one can say to a Russian that was done more

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Speaker 2: scary than a revolution. So what Putin has told the

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Speaker 2: Russians that there could have been a cool, right, that

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Speaker 2: thee are cool, and that cool potentially would destabilize UH Russia,

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Speaker 2: and UH the Russian people need to rise up and

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Speaker 2: UH to tighten their belt to force them additional sacrifices.

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Speaker 2: Remember who means additional troops to throw into the mid

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Speaker 2: grinder in Ukraine, Because he's hemorrhaging forces. So she just

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Speaker 2: involved the illegal regime consistent to a martial law. It's

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Speaker 2: called tuturism operations. So and the Russians are all behind him. Uh,

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Speaker 2: they bought these the narratives that the West and I

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Speaker 2: quote putain Right now, the West entire military, economic, and

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Speaker 2: uh informational machine is deployed against Russia. They want to.

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Speaker 2: They want they see King Russia's strategic defeat. And it's

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Speaker 2: consistent what President Biden is himself has said, who can

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Speaker 2: not remain in power? Psychos genre defense Lloyd Dawston said

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Speaker 2: that US will provide sport to ukraims because we want

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Speaker 2: to weaken Russia militarily and economically to the point where

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Speaker 2: it's no longer threats. So the Russians, of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: believe what both President Biden and his leaders are saying

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Speaker 2: and what Putin is saying. So they behind Putin right now.

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Speaker 2: Putin came out victorious out of this. So so yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the situation in Russia.

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Speaker 1: Pagosian has criticized Russian military leaders, including calling top brass traitor.

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Speaker 1: Is is the tension they're real? If it is? Why

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Speaker 1: there is.

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Speaker 2: Some real tension they are. Gagosian believes that the Russian

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Speaker 2: war is not been prosecuted with the effectiveness that he

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Speaker 2: could have been. He's making a contrast between his battle

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Speaker 2: hardened fighters and what he calls the children. By that

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Speaker 2: he means the eighteen year olds that have been drafted

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Speaker 2: hastily by Secretary of Defense or rather a minister of Defense,

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Speaker 2: the Russian one shoy Go. And so he's trying to

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Speaker 2: stir up the pot in order to have shoy Go

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Speaker 2: and possibly girasmas Phaleri Grasimov, who's the chief of the

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Speaker 2: Russian General Staff. He's trying to get them removed. So

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Speaker 2: remember the WAGONA group fighters are recruited from prison. They

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Speaker 2: are convicts, but they receive training, very professional training, at

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Speaker 2: the same facility that the Russian military intelligence does, which

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Speaker 2: gru It's in Mona and not in Krosmadog. Just if

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Speaker 2: you Golom just from Bosco. So the Wagner Group is

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Speaker 2: an extension of the Russian state. It has been created

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Speaker 2: with the specific purpose of conducting paramil operations all across

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Speaker 2: the globe. And so what Progosion does once is he

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Speaker 2: wants more power, he wants Shorygun grabs him off out

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Speaker 2: he wants some replaced with a more professional folks, specifically Shoribu.

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Speaker 2: Shbur does not even come from their military. The only

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Speaker 2: reason why he became the Ministry of Defense is because

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Speaker 2: Putin appointed him and he gave him the military rank.

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Speaker 2: He's not liked within the Russian military. And so yes,

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Speaker 2: there is some real attention and by Putin needs some

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Speaker 2: sort of excuse to change the leadership or some in

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Speaker 2: the Russian defense and establishment without having a black eye.

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Speaker 2: He needs a pretext for that. And so that's exactly

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Speaker 2: what's going on right now. There is, uh, there are

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Speaker 2: some you know, purging going on, but Putin, you know,

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Speaker 2: now has the justification to remove those who are quote

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Speaker 2: unquote desloyal to him, to him, uh, with the loyal

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Speaker 2: people who are competent to finish this war to the

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Speaker 2: end because Putin, remember he has elections coming up on

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Speaker 2: March seventeen, so he wants this done quickly. The Russian

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Speaker 2: Graine War, and he deployed just the right narrative, targeting

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Speaker 2: both Russian audiences and US audiences, and he's quite successful

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Speaker 2: as that. Well.

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Speaker 1: I did find it interesting that there were people like

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Speaker 1: Adam Kensinger cheering what happened on Because if they want

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Speaker 1: regime change, is it really someone like Pregosion that you

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Speaker 1: want in that change?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Is do you want someone who is a warlord for hire,

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Speaker 1: who you know viciously and ruthlessly kills people for living

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Speaker 1: in control of nuclear weapons? I mean, you know, sure

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Speaker 1: Putin's bad, agree, but is progosion better in their eyes?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not Gaussian, It's not well, truly, they just like

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Speaker 2: peas in the pot. Right, those two go back twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Gaussian served Putin food and drink. And isn't that interesting

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Speaker 2: that somebody whom trust Putin is very paranoid about poisoning obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know, because huroutinely authorizes poisonings and other types of

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Speaker 2: stuff we a fascinate, including on US oil. So and

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Speaker 2: there's somehow fallout right now between the two. And interestingly,

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Speaker 2: Putin is not sending the mercador, which is an an

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Speaker 2: idiomatic expression for standing n Assaff and Mercadora was the

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Speaker 2: Spanish assassin who tried to murder Throat Togare, another you know,

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Speaker 2: defector in the center or whatever. So so yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: the Adam Kinsinger is is very dangerous because if there's

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Speaker 2: something that is more dangerous than having putin you know

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Speaker 2: the thing that on the nuclear buttons. Uh, it's precaution. Right,

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Speaker 2: Russia is in possession of the world's largest nuclear arsenal

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Speaker 2: with more than six down and warheads a lot of

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Speaker 2: them are pointing two years homeland. And do you really

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Speaker 2: want somebody like Pregorssion running around in Belarus of all places?

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Speaker 2: Right that just became the recipient of a wonderful gift

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Speaker 2: from putting tactical nukes. And right now both Pregausion, who's

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Speaker 2: the command of the.

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Speaker 3: World's most vicious mercenary group, the Wagner Group, that's right

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Speaker 3: now heading to Belarus to join Pregassion there.

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Speaker 2: Pudding just gave them. You know, they're okay to to

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Speaker 2: go to Belarus. And so Pregaussion putting nukes and the

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Speaker 2: Wagner Group are now in Belarus in the line of

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Speaker 2: direct threat to NATO's eastern planks. Okay, And you know

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Speaker 2: who understands perfectly the and what just happened, even though

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Speaker 2: President Biden is completely oblivious to this, Lisan and President Lisan.

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Speaker 2: President is calling to beefop NATO's eastern flanks because what

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Speaker 2: we have right now there is a combat ready strategic

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Speaker 2: reserve WAGNA fighters, potentially opening the second front, threatening both

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Speaker 2: Ukraine and native planks.

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Speaker 1: Who is winning the war right now? Between Ukraine and

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Speaker 1: Russia China?

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Speaker 2: China is winning the war. Neither Russia nor Ukraine technically

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Speaker 2: winning right. Russia is not winning because it's Hemorrhagen uh

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Speaker 2: manpower and the Russian demographics is such that losing young

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Speaker 2: child producing males is not a good thing for Russia.

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Speaker 2: In terms of strategic victory, Russia is achieving a subjective

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that they're winning, but poase determine his

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Speaker 2: objective or preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, as that's his

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Speaker 2: red line, right because NATO is an adversarial alliance. With

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Speaker 2: the collapse of the Unions, the strategic security perimeter that

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Speaker 2: Russia views Ukraine as part of has reduced from one

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Speaker 2: thousand miles to one hundred miles, right, And who he

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Speaker 2: cannot afford that? Who he cannot afford this adversary alliance

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Speaker 2: and borders in his backyard, No more than we would

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Speaker 2: allow China or Russia or Roan or someone else to

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Speaker 2: get as close as Canada or Mexico. Right, So that

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Speaker 2: respect you could say that Putin is winning, but who

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Speaker 2: is not securing a clear motive victory. Ukraine is clearly losing.

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Speaker 2: Ukraine has a fast lost already, Ukraine has ceased to

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Speaker 2: exist as an independent state. How so, the United States

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Speaker 2: is providing an equivalent of Ukraine's entire growth domestic products

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Speaker 2: for twenty twenty one, which was one hundred ninety six

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Speaker 2: billion dollars. And the US either has provided already or

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Speaker 2: committed to provide in military hardware or plane cash right too,

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Speaker 2: Kiyov to prop up that regime and to continue this war.

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Speaker 2: The Ukraine is not independent. Its industrial base is destroyed,

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Speaker 2: the Russian missile stride destroyed it. It's a lot. Cultural

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Speaker 2: base is destroyed. Agriculture is what Ukraine was basically, you know,

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Speaker 2: living on right, and it produces cultural products on which

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Speaker 2: much of Europe and the rest of the world depend

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Speaker 2: And so none of that is now contributing to the

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Speaker 2: best growth domestic product UH in Ukraine. And so we

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Speaker 2: have to help them, and in fact, how convenient black

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Speaker 2: Rock and UH and some other you know. JPM Rosa

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Speaker 2: raised the hands and said, of course we're gonna, We're gonna,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna help out. So but but yes,

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Speaker 2: until Ukraine becomes an independent state and there's no ongoing

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Speaker 2: UH conflict, right, and there's territorial integrity that is restored.

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Speaker 2: Ukraine's are not the compart of NATA. So next sense

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Speaker 2: putness one, Ukraine has lost. But China is the biggest

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Speaker 2: point because China is seeing top of its geopolitical adds series,

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Speaker 2: go at it just drawing their own combat arsenals, right,

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Speaker 2: US and Russia are in a proxy war, and so

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Speaker 2: China benefits from it because China is getting ready to

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Speaker 2: in base Taiwan in the next year or two, and

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Speaker 2: ward gaming has shown I'm sure you know this, but

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Speaker 2: if the US were to go to war with China,

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Speaker 2: we would lose. We would deplete all of our long

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Speaker 2: rangements in a matter of days, less than a week.

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Speaker 2: So we are right now in the hole in terms

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Speaker 2: of one hundred and fifty five EMMA. We don't have

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Speaker 2: the basic munitions to prosecute that war because we have

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Speaker 2: depleted our supplies and we are incapable of replenishing them,

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Speaker 2: because our production capacity is just limited. Because unlike Russia

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Speaker 2: and China who did transition on the wartime putting you know,

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Speaker 2: in terms of the economy. Uh, we haven't because theoretically

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Speaker 2: we're in a war. Practically we are in approx the

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Speaker 2: war because we keep pumping in the top secret motor

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Speaker 2: hardware into Ukraine. Uh And and we don't have any

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Speaker 2: for us. Like imagine there's no scenaria on that right now.

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Speaker 2: I can imagine that US is under attack that we

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Speaker 2: actually have to you know, have our ammunitions, but we

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Speaker 2: have all of those commitments, including Tornado, including too Taiwan

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Speaker 2: to defend them. And we would definitely lose those wars

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Speaker 2: if we were to step in and help our allies.

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Speaker 1: Before we go, Rebecca, when does this end the overland?

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Speaker 2: When the US will step in and some cooler heads

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Speaker 2: will prevail and we say enough because without US we

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Speaker 2: can't Ukraine cannot continue militia operations. Right. So Putin, however,

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Speaker 2: has no incentive to end this war because the outcome

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Speaker 2: of this war is that's essential for him. He will

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Speaker 2: continue fighting until the West understands that he needs that

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Speaker 2: strategic secure diplometer. Right he can't have Ukraine and Nadle.

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Speaker 2: The Lanski has no incentive because he has stated his

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Speaker 2: entire reputation. I mean, look, he's a star. Right now

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Speaker 2: he's playing what I'm President on TV. She's mesmerizing there world.

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Speaker 2: He will lose all of this, right, you know, his

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Speaker 2: vices on May cover of fashion magazines. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: guy's aiming for a network contract and in a movie

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Speaker 2: where he's play himself. Right, at what time President neither

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Speaker 2: prisons lent Ga incentivized, right, Uh, Biden is the one

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Speaker 2: who has to step in, uh in order to stop

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Speaker 2: the slaughter of Ukraine. And unfortunately, Biden, it looks like

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Speaker 2: right now he's ready to want to keep this fight

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Speaker 2: until the last Ukrainian and unfortunately the Russians just simply

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Speaker 2: have uh so much more population wise to throw into

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Speaker 2: the mid grinder. Russian the Russians have one hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty three million people and the Ukraine forty three. So right,

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Speaker 2: so the main power is just such that Russia holds

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Speaker 2: advantage both militarily and then power wise, and so someone

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Speaker 2: you know has to step in. Kula heads need to

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Speaker 2: prevail or else you never know where the scoffer goes, right,

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Speaker 2: he needs you know, keeps threatening the nukes. He's repositions

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Speaker 2: the nukes to thredden Na, those Eastern Plank and Biden

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Speaker 2: himself actually acknowledged that the threat of nuclear armageddon is real.

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Speaker 2: So it's incomprehensible to me that he would continue fueling

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Speaker 2: this war if she thinks that the nuclear thread as real.

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Speaker 2: Makes no sense. But again, Biden is compromised in terms

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Speaker 2: of his cognitive ability. I mean again, today he said,

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Speaker 2: who is losing the war in a rock? And this

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Speaker 2: is not the first, the first sort of cognitive sign

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Speaker 2: of cognitive decline. So someone else that's not Biden. I

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Speaker 2: don't know who we're actually in charge today in the

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Speaker 2: White House. It's clearly not Biden. But somebody needs to

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Speaker 2: realize where this is going, that the threat of nuclear

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Speaker 2: escalation is indeed real, and this war needs to end today.

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Speaker 1: I hope that happens. Rebecca Koffler, thanks for joining the

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Speaker 1: show and breaking down a complicated issue. We really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me Lisa.

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Speaker 1: That was Rebecca Koeffler. Appreciate her insight and breaking this

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Speaker 1: all down for us. I want to thank you guys

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Speaker 1: at home for listening every Monday and Thursday, but you

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Speaker 1: can listen throughout the week. I want to thank John

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Speaker 1: Cassio and my producer for putting the show together until

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Speaker 1: next time.