1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: From the studio who brought you the number one podcast,

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,760
Speaker 1: the piked in Massacre. This is Death Island.

3
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,000
Speaker 2: Just a few miles off the Thailand coast. The island

4
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,320
Speaker 2: of Kotoo looks like a postcard.

5
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost like if you were going to

6
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 3: imagine a paradise island, they'll draw a picture of one.

7
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:19,919
Speaker 3: That's what kota looks like.

8
00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,480
Speaker 1: Young tourists from all over the world visit the pristine

9
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: beaches and crystal clear water.

10
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,640
Speaker 4: Right underneath the surface lies something sinister.

11
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 3: A dark cloud has come over the island and cast

12
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 3: its shadow death, history and danger.

13
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 1: In the last twenty years, dozens of tourists have died

14
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 1: mysteriously on the island.

15
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 2: One thing is certain in this beautiful place, no coast

16
00:00:51,040 --> 00:01:02,640
Speaker 2: is clear. This is Death Island, Episode twelve. This is

17
00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,200
Speaker 2: a roundtable conversation between our team, Courtney Armstrong, Andrew Arnau,

18
00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 2: Sephanie Lydacer, Jeff Shane, and myself. Here's a little bit

19
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,840
Speaker 2: about how Death Island came up as something we all

20
00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,039
Speaker 2: thought should be investigated. It actually all started when Courtney

21
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,399
Speaker 2: started digging into some articles on koto and brought the

22
00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 2: idea to Stephanie and the team at Katie Studios.

23
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:25,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was years ago.

24
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,119
Speaker 1: It was I believe twenty eighteen when I first even

25
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: heard the term Death Island. And then I just started

26
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 1: reading articles and I literally could not believe everything that

27
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 1: was happening and that I'd had zero knowledge of it.

28
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,399
Speaker 6: And the crime scenes were so unique and grizzly, things

29
00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 6: that I had never heard before.

30
00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 7: And then they're so scary.

31
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 6: And the idea of going as a tourist on holiday,

32
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,120
Speaker 6: being carefree, letting your guard down, isn't that the goal?

33
00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 6: That's a fantasy for everybody, right, We want to go

34
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 6: to PA and just let our worries be put aside.

35
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 6: And then the circumstances of these types of murders to

36
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 6: be so big, and especially here in the United States,

37
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 6: not so wildly covered. There wasn't so so much information,

38
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 6: you know there. Really there was like a wall at

39
00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,400
Speaker 6: every bend, and frankly, I think until now, I think

40
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,880
Speaker 6: you guys have broken that wall down.

41
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 8: Well, we're really hoping and looking forward to hearing from

42
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 8: more people about their experiences that we haven't been able

43
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 8: to get in touch with or haven't found yet, because

44
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 8: we know that there's more out there.

45
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, you know, if you're British, you

46
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 2: probably know about this island. You've known about it a

47
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 2: long time because several of the most high profile deaths

48
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,560
Speaker 2: are among you know, Brits or Australians or Kiwi's something

49
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 2: you know connected to the sort of Commonwealth countries. But

50
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,679
Speaker 2: you know, as Stephanie mentioned, there are deaths of nationals

51
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,919
Speaker 2: from all over the world, from Japan, from Russia, Moldovia, Belgium, Argentina.

52
00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,359
Speaker 2: There are Americans who have had these run ins. There's

53
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 2: an Americans died there as well, and it's not really

54
00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 2: been covered in the US. I think the New York

55
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 2: Times wrote an article. I think Time Magazine had an

56
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 2: online article, but like if you scour the American news,

57
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't really get any coverage in this country. And

58
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 2: so you know, if I think for American listeners, it's

59
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,720
Speaker 2: definitely going to be a lot of brand new stuff,

60
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 2: and I think for a lot of other countries who

61
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,320
Speaker 2: if you looked at how say somebody like Elise's death

62
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,959
Speaker 2: was covered in Belgium, it was part her story and

63
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,959
Speaker 2: then it was part backfill with British deaths, right because

64
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,440
Speaker 2: there there was only so much you could do on

65
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 2: her story from halfway around the world. And I think,

66
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, with a lot of these stories, we tried

67
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 2: not to use the other deaths on the island as

68
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,080
Speaker 2: part of other people's stories. And I think if you

69
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 2: look at a lot of what's been written, every print

70
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 2: story there is always backfilled whatever the story was the

71
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 2: main point with everyone else's deaths, and that's what we're

72
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,119
Speaker 2: trying not to do. We're trying to sort of look

73
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 2: at each death individually and keep it contained to their deaths.

74
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you guys really did do such an excellent job,

75
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, with the outreach as mentioned, and you know,

76
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: getting people close to the victims, family members, best friends

77
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 1: who want to get the information out, and you know

78
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people's loved ones did become a footnote,

79
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,640
Speaker 1: a one of many, versus having the attention that a

80
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 1: human being who lost their life should have.

81
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,640
Speaker 6: Just to add to that, Yes, being a tourist and

82
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,479
Speaker 6: the dream of that is so relatable, but imagine being

83
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 6: a parent or a family member and a loved one

84
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 6: goes on a trip and then the circumstances of their

85
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,600
Speaker 6: death is so gruesome, and then to get no information

86
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 6: and have to just pick up your lives and move

87
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 6: on and frankly, you know, and this again is a

88
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 6: testament to Connor and Andrew. I think many family members

89
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,280
Speaker 6: or friends of family were, you know, nervous to speak out.

90
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,799
Speaker 6: There's all kinds of reasons to be nervous, and because

91
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,839
Speaker 6: of your empathy and just your diligence, you know, really

92
00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 6: have been able to kind of rally everyone. And the

93
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 6: hope is for more of it.

94
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 2: To your point, yeah, definitely, I mean, I there are

95
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 2: some of these families have been treated really horribly. I mean,

96
00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,920
Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is that some of them

97
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 2: have been really treated horribly by Thai investigators, by Thai authorities.

98
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 2: You know, You've had the former mayor of Kotel basically

99
00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 2: blaming many of the tourists for their own deaths based

100
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,480
Speaker 2: on the way they drink and party and the clothes

101
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 2: they wear. So you have people like that, you know,

102
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,400
Speaker 2: who are just bad mouthing the victims. You have Thai

103
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 2: authorities not providing basic documentation to family members and the

104
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,280
Speaker 2: way that their bodies are stored or the way autopsies

105
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,599
Speaker 2: are you know, done in Thailand, and that causes a.

106
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,160
Speaker 4: Lot of problems.

107
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: But then you also have a lot of media members

108
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: around the world that have just dismissed these parents as

109
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 2: crazy as you know, unwilling to accept that their childhood

110
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,719
Speaker 2: something stupid. And again, like, I can accept that, but

111
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 2: some some kids do stupid stuff. People die in Mexico,

112
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 2: people die in Arizona, people die all over the world. Right,

113
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,120
Speaker 2: But like when people fall off a cliff on New

114
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 2: Year's Eve after they've been put to bed, you know,

115
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 2: that raises some questions. There's something unsettling about almost every

116
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: one of these deaths. It just doesn't line up with

117
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 2: a natural cause death. It doesn't mean that it was

118
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,599
Speaker 2: a natural cause, but there's something unsettling, and that's what

119
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 2: we see time and time again, and all too often,

120
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,799
Speaker 2: I think family members are portrayed as crazy for raising

121
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,360
Speaker 2: these questions about the way their loved ones died, and

122
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 2: that I think is the sort of really tragic thing

123
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: about this overall story of Kotel is just how awful

124
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 2: the victims, families and friends are treated often.

125
00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,280
Speaker 8: Right, It's a lot of institutional gaslighting.

126
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was.

127
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,800
Speaker 6: Just going to say, talk about crazy making. Could you

128
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 6: imagine not getting answers, the language barrier on top of that,

129
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 6: and just the inability to have any sort of flow

130
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,919
Speaker 6: of info, I honestly can't imagine in our hearts, you know,

131
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,279
Speaker 6: As you said, Andrew, it really does go out to

132
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 6: all of the family and friends of the victims. And

133
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 6: also this is a bit of a cautionary tale. It's

134
00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 6: made us all rethink how we even see the world.

135
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:01,600
Speaker 7: I get it.

136
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 6: Just the idea of going on a holiday and you know,

137
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 6: New Year's Eve and having a cocktail, it sounds perfect, and.

138
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 7: We expect, or we hope that we're safe in this world.

139
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 6: And the truth is, hopefully this is another way of

140
00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 6: everyone looking out for each other, because you guys also

141
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 6: are connecting the dots.

142
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 8: Speaking to that. You know, there's so many things, like

143
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 8: you said, that we take for granted, and one of

144
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 8: them being medical examiners autopsies and the standard that we're

145
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 8: used to and what we expect them to do. And

146
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 8: so this isn't something I would have ever thought about.

147
00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 8: If I'm thinking about traveling, am I going someplace where

148
00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 8: they're going to know what they're doing or do a

149
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 8: detailed job? You know, I never would have thought about

150
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 8: that before looking into this.

151
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 6: And these are really sizeable crime scenes, right, so imagine

152
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 6: just the know how that's required and the protocols that

153
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 6: are required in any scenario with crime scenes, some of

154
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 6: them of which you know are really massive, let alone

155
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,440
Speaker 6: on an island. Would they don't necessarily have all the

156
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 6: equipment and all of the modern technology, even with best intentions.

157
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 6: Who would think that having a medical examiner with all

158
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 6: of the modern stuff to be able to really process

159
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 6: a case and a crime scene sufficiently is something that

160
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,119
Speaker 6: you would check off your tourist guide list.

161
00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 8: You know, in the case of a lease, they reopened

162
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 8: the investigation into the crime scene three or four months later,

163
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 8: it's a jungle.

164
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,040
Speaker 4: It's outside.

165
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 8: What evidence is going to still be there three or

166
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 8: four months later, where rains all the time, and you're

167
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 8: in a jungle, Like that's.

168
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,959
Speaker 7: Insane, exactly so well said.

169
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,200
Speaker 6: It's imagine getting a proper crime scene three months later

170
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 6: in a cement parking lot, let alone in the throes

171
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 6: of a jungle.

172
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 7: You're so right.

173
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 6: And on top of that, with a time zone or

174
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 6: a country between you, these are not.

175
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 7: Easy necessarily places to get to.

176
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 6: So even for family members from a distance, just asking

177
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,680
Speaker 6: for very basic information not so easy to get. When

178
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,959
Speaker 6: this all started, it sounded fishy there seemed like there

179
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 6: was something there, and maybe the spirit of the podcast

180
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 6: initially was to disprove that can you please go out

181
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 6: and prove that this is not Death Island? And that

182
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 6: really ended up not being very much the case at all.

183
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 6: In fact, it's only gotten scarier.

184
00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I know when I was starting, I

185
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,800
Speaker 8: had a lot of hesitancy to even put my voice

186
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 8: on it, wondering what's going to happen. You know, it's

187
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,360
Speaker 8: a little scary, or not a little, it's very scary totally,

188
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 8: but you know, I think that the possibility to do

189
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 8: some good and bring some light to the situation kind

190
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,839
Speaker 8: of outweighed anything that, you know, might make me a

191
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 8: little skeptical.

192
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 9: When we started development on this, a lot of these

193
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 9: cases had very little to no attention in the media,

194
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,960
Speaker 9: and as we've kind of now revisited them for the

195
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 9: making of this podcast, they still have so little you know,

196
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,079
Speaker 9: in all these years, there's been so few updates on

197
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,839
Speaker 9: so many of these open investigations or what should be

198
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,959
Speaker 9: open investigations, And so I wonder, to your point, if

199
00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 9: that's the reason why if people are maybe a little

200
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 9: hesitant to go.

201
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 2: There, Well, I want to read the one that I

202
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 2: just got a couple hours ago, says, hmmm, another person

203
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,200
Speaker 2: jumping on the conspiratorial bandwagon of a name made up

204
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 2: by a very small group of social media why question mark,

205
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 2: let me know if you want the truth. There's also

206
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 2: a Twitter handle called kotal hoax and then they were

207
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,280
Speaker 2: attacking I guess another somebody did something that they didn't

208
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,959
Speaker 2: like it, so maybe you need to do more research

209
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 2: next time you do a video on Koto. And then

210
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 2: they ceesed me on their Like.

211
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 9: What is the argument though, that people are not being

212
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,600
Speaker 9: murdered or disappearing there or that they.

213
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,680
Speaker 2: Are no, that it's not they're not connected, that they

214
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 2: you know that there isn't The deaths there are as

215
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,200
Speaker 2: natural as the deaths in anywhere else in the world.

216
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,559
Speaker 2: That there don't happen at any more frequency in other

217
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 2: places in Thailand or anywhere else that you know, essentially

218
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 2: there is no connection, and to a certain extent, they're right, Like,

219
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: I don't think any of us are going to pretend

220
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 2: that there was like one serial killer who's devising a

221
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 2: way to kill all these.

222
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:01,920
Speaker 4: People and cover it up.

223
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if anyone has actually ever

224
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,440
Speaker 2: made that argument, but I certainly don't think we've made

225
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 2: that argument. I know we haven't, but I do think

226
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 2: that there is a very strong line of really negligent

227
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,000
Speaker 2: police investigation going through all of these deaths, and that's

228
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 2: like the starting point. I think any rational person can

229
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,800
Speaker 2: agree with that. Now, what caused the deaths that and

230
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 2: what was the investigation into those deaths? You know, that's

231
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 2: something different. But the fact that there was very little

232
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 2: investigation and continues to be like, that's I think painfully obvious.

233
00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 1: So Andrew had used the term institutional gas lighting, and

234
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 1: I think that's it's so up in so many of

235
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,720
Speaker 1: these cases. And then even Connor, as you were saying

236
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 1: about the investigations, not just yes, the police work, but

237
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,440
Speaker 1: then also the forensics which came up. And I was

238
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 1: just re listening to an episode where autopsies were completely

239
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,599
Speaker 1: different don on Kotau and then done on Bangkok.

240
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,920
Speaker 2: That was Chrissy, No, but Ian's was as well. Right,

241
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 2: didn't Ian's family get a different one from the UK?

242
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 6: Oh?

243
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 8: Yes, yes they did.

244
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,600
Speaker 5: That's right, Yes, Yes, that's right.

245
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,680
Speaker 1: So Ian Jacobs, if you guys recall this was back

246
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: several episodes he went there on a Scoob diving adventure

247
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,320
Speaker 1: very early on. He was maybe the earliest case we

248
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,319
Speaker 1: speak about. It occurred in two thousand his death and

249
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 1: he was found at the bottom of a well. His

250
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: friend went actually went to Thailand from the UK to

251
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: find out, and he found that this well, no one

252
00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 1: possibly couldn't have gotten themselves in it. You had to

253
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:41,680
Speaker 1: be doubled up and on Kotao. What the autopsy said

254
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: was that he fell into it, he was drunk, and

255
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: he drowned. And then what another autopsy said was that

256
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:55,920
Speaker 1: there was no drowning. Grossly varied reports depending upon who's

257
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 1: looking into these deaths, which in and of itself is questionable.

258
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 6: Even just hearing you talking about it, Courtney, it's a

259
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 6: reminder too of this.

260
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,439
Speaker 7: It's like the scariest of stories.

261
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 6: You hear stories that seem impossible to imagine, no way

262
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 6: that doesn't happen, that wouldn't happen once, let alone twice,

263
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 6: let alone dozens of times, And even just hearing Courtney

264
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 6: talking about it is a.

265
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 7: Reminder of how many times, whether it was.

266
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,319
Speaker 6: Courtney and Jeff and an elevator telling these stories again

267
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 6: and again and again so many times that it eventually

268
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,079
Speaker 6: evolved into what it is now this podcast.

269
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 2: I'm curious when you guys first looked at the article

270
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 2: that Courtney was circulating at the very early days in

271
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, Like, what were your immediate thoughts when you

272
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,719
Speaker 2: saw this the history of Kotal? Could you guys put

273
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 2: together a deck and you know, began pitching it as

274
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 2: as a TV show? And I'm curious, like, what did

275
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 2: you guys thinks people have worked in this industry? You know,

276
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 2: immediately upon seeing.

277
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: This, I mean for me, I just I thought it

278
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 1: was flabbergasting, and the article I read was very It

279
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,719
Speaker 1: was a top line and you know, for lack of

280
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,479
Speaker 1: a better term, just really gory details.

281
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 5: Is it mafia? Is it cults?

282
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:11,160
Speaker 8: Is it?

283
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 5: Is it?

284
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 1: And then again just that it was all happening in

285
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: such a small place, and right at the time that

286
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: we started talking about this or learning about it, Kutao

287
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 1: had been put on a watch list for travelers not

288
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 1: to travel there. And I think we just all wanted

289
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: to find out more. You guys can speak to it,

290
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,400
Speaker 1: but find out what is actually happening behind these tidbits

291
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:33,119
Speaker 1: of details.

292
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 7: Yeah.

293
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,360
Speaker 9: What spoke to me, and I think what still speaks

294
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 9: to me is just the juxtaposition between the location and

295
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 9: the violence that has occurred there. The idea that somewhere

296
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 9: so beautiful and appealing can also be so dangerous just

297
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 9: was very intriguing and I think made us want to

298
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:49,400
Speaker 9: dig right in.

299
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in

300
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: a moment.

301
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 2: Do you guys remember when we were working in twenty eighteen,

302
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 2: After you guys contacted me and we started sort of

303
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 2: talking about this as a TV show. The BBC America's

304
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 2: point person hadn't he gone to Kotoo and didn't somebody

305
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 2: die when he was there?

306
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 4: And he totally forgot about it.

307
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 1: It was a BBC executive.

308
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 6: Well, we worked with Alex Melendez, who's a colleague and

309
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 6: an extraordinary developer and an executive producer, and he had

310
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 6: shepherded us into the BBC and the executive that we

311
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 6: were speaking to had actually been there and had first

312
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 6: hand experience of, frankly, what you were talking about Connor

313
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 6: scuba diving, and had a first hand account.

314
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 7: Of just what the air was like and how beautiful

315
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 7: it was.

316
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 6: And the likelihood of that happening is a zero because

317
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,320
Speaker 6: so few people ever talked about Death Island. In fact,

318
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 6: the only people that would would be Courtney and Jeff

319
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 6: was one of those cases that when we were in

320
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 6: a car together or flying somewhere or are on a shoot,

321
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 6: it was that something is there, something there.

322
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: But also that executive not only had he been there,

323
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,200
Speaker 1: but he had been there for a full moon party,

324
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: and someone who was not a close friend but who

325
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: he was acquainted with died on Katau, the man that

326
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 1: we're telling the story to.

327
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 10: It was unbelievable, and I remember he was He sort

328
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 10: of chalked it up when he was there and in

329
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 10: his youth as like, well that just you know, sometimes

330
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 10: that happens, Like you know, we're all there, have a

331
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 10: good time, accidents happened that anyone who visits a place

332
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 10: like Kotel where.

333
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 4: That could happen. You're like, yeah, of course, of course.

334
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: Somebody can die in Cancun, or somebody can die in

335
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 2: San Diego, right like, or Tijuana or you know, Miami Beach, Like,

336
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 2: of course that can happen. But it was only after

337
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 2: we started talking about all of the other deaths that

338
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,440
Speaker 2: happened after the death when he was there, that he

339
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 2: was like, oh, maybe that wasn't just a random death.

340
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 4: And I remember talking to other people.

341
00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,360
Speaker 2: Who you know, only sort of began to hear the

342
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 2: history of Coot, how after they had been there and

343
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 2: had seen and sort of felt strange things. And again

344
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 2: like we also talked to people who had a wonderful time,

345
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 2: no problems, you know, had a great experience there. I

346
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 2: mean I remember talking to people who raised their families

347
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 2: there and had a wonderful experience. But you talk to

348
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: enough people and everybody has a story about some dodgy

349
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,879
Speaker 2: interaction on this small island where people waving guns about

350
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 2: or threatening people in the street, or knowing somebody who

351
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,920
Speaker 2: saw somebody get killed. Because there's been a couple of

352
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 2: murders in the street, right And it doesn't take very

353
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,640
Speaker 2: long to find people who have had these crazy experiences there.

354
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 9: Also, to your point, Connor, I think there's a lot

355
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 9: of victims shaming that can happen. People put themselves in

356
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 9: a dangerous situation or they you know, they go to

357
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,080
Speaker 9: a nightclub, or they go on vacation, and I think

358
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 9: there's no matter what you're doing, you don't deserve to

359
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 9: be murdered or kidnapped or taken in any way, oh.

360
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, And listen, even if you do put

361
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 2: yourself in a bad situation, like I don't know, jump

362
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 2: off the rocks because you're drunk and you you know,

363
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 2: jump off a cliff and you bash your head in

364
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,640
Speaker 2: or something like that. You also deserve to be treated,

365
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 2: you know, with some kindness, right, like to have the

366
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 2: police treat your death in a serious manner, and to

367
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,199
Speaker 2: have your family treated in a serious manner, and to

368
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: have information related.

369
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 4: In a you know, in an official, proper channel, right.

370
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 2: And I think that's one of the other things that's

371
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 2: kind of interesting is I talked to several people, I think,

372
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 2: answer talked to several people who were really frustrated with

373
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 2: their home governments, whether it be the UK government or

374
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,360
Speaker 2: the American or consulates you know, from Belgium, who felt

375
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 2: like their home government didn't do anything to put pressure

376
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 2: on the Thai government to get answers. And there's a

377
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: whole lot of different reasons for that, and some of

378
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: them are good, some of them bad, some of them

379
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,239
Speaker 2: are just you know, meaningless. But that's another part of it.

380
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 2: Whereas like tourists go there and they get sort of

381
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 2: crapped on by the local taie authorities and then they

382
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 2: find no help from their own embassies as well.

383
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,520
Speaker 8: Wasn't it the mayor of Katau who said, these girls

384
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 8: don't want to get sexually assaulted here, they shouldn't dress

385
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 8: like that, Yes.

386
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 7: In a bathing suit on a beach.

387
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,119
Speaker 2: By the way, that was the point he made, and

388
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 2: he also later also had another comment basically saying that

389
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,919
Speaker 2: like they come here, they get drunk, they do drugs.

390
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 2: Of course some of them are going to die.

391
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,200
Speaker 6: It's absurd when you actually really dig in and imagine

392
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 6: too it also is it kind of attracts because of

393
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 6: the dancing in the moon and what I'm picturing a

394
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 6: low key rave happening and a yoga retreat and people

395
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,399
Speaker 6: that are going to find some wellness and internal peace.

396
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 4: But Stephanie, that's not really Koteo.

397
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 2: And that's just kind of like they want to have

398
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 2: it both ways, which is they want to blame the

399
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,119
Speaker 2: deaths on like the party culture. But the reality is

400
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 2: is like a lot of the people who have died

401
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,159
Speaker 2: on Koteo weren't their partying. Alase, wasn't their partying. And

402
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,439
Speaker 2: she was literally escaping right like she was fleeing a

403
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 2: cult on another island.

404
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 6: To add to that, I wasn't even suggesting the party

405
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 6: part as much as it is the yoga retreat of

406
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 6: it all, or looking for something to find higher guidance.

407
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 6: You know, Elise Yes wasn't there for a rape, but

408
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 6: she was there to find some inner peace.

409
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: She was passing through on Hotel, I mean like she

410
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 2: just was randomly on the island, and when she died,

411
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 2: she didn't actually have any real connection to Kotel, and

412
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 2: a lot of the people who died there, I mean,

413
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: Tony Lotus was a businessman and wounds up dead on

414
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 2: the island there. Now he was living a pretty party

415
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 2: life from by all accounts as well. But sometimes people

416
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 2: mistake Kosamui and Copunyang with Kotao because they're in the

417
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 2: same area. And while Kotel does have the moon parties,

418
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: it's much more a place where people go after the

419
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: moon parties and chill and do the vacation and scuba dive.

420
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 2: And a lot of the people who died in Kotoo

421
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 2: were like health fit miss people.

422
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break.

423
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 2: One of the things that just really sticks with me

424
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: about this higher conversation about Kotel is the way that

425
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 2: families feel that they've been treated by Thai authorities on

426
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 2: the island. That is the type of thing that when

427
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: you put it next to some of the comments that

428
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 2: the one time Thai Prime minister made about tourists not

429
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 2: being safe because they're wearing bikinis, and some of the

430
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 2: things that other local officials have said about you know,

431
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 2: they get drunk and they do stupid things. These are

432
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 2: the types of comments that are just sort of mind

433
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 2: boggling that victims, families, people who've lost loved ones on

434
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 2: Kotel that they would even have to deal with these

435
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 2: types of comments.

436
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, this is really tragic and always with us.

437
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 5: Yeah.

438
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: I I was gonna mention that one of one instants

439
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,119
Speaker 1: of really just mistreatment of victims' families is in the

440
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: case of Hannah Witherage, and when her family was reaching

441
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 1: out to get information from the Thai government, they were

442
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 1: actually told by an official. When her family said, oh,

443
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 1: we are grieving, we can't get over this, they were

444
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: told to go ahead and have another one, as in,

445
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: go have another baby and replace this daughter. And that's

446
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: just something that's always stuck with.

447
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 5: All of us.

448
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 6: This is the feedback you're getting about your daughter's death.

449
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,959
Speaker 6: That's not to cut you off, but it even just

450
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 6: infuriating even just hearing about it.

451
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 8: Well, and when that's the information you get, I mean,

452
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 8: it's no wonder people are upset with their consulates or embassies,

453
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 8: you know, for not doing more. I mean, that's that

454
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 8: straight up bullshit to hear something like that period the end.

455
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: My hope is that one of these cases that somebody

456
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: comes forward with some type of information that gives one

457
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: of the families, you know, some peace of mind. And

458
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: maybe it's that their child died of natural causes, or

459
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: maybe you know, they were with them and they saw

460
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: they saw them do something. Or maybe it's that the

461
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: two Burmese boys who are in prison in jail for

462
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: Hannah and David's deaths, you know that there's some evidence

463
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: that you know, either proves that they did do it

464
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: or some evidence that proves they didn't do it. Like

465
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: I think clarity would be on one of these on

466
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 2: several of these cases would be a welcome change, because

467
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: I think everything about this island and everything about the

468
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 2: way authorities handle death there is really murky.

469
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 8: I mean, for me, my biggest hope would be that

470
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 8: we shed enough light on this that it forces some

471
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 8: change and some accountability. So that we can help prevent

472
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 8: another family from going through the same horrible experience. You

473
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 8: know that all of these other families have been going

474
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 8: through for the last you know, twenty two plus years.

475
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 8: People don't deserve to be treated like that when they

476
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 8: lose somebody, And obviously these people shouldn't be dying in

477
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 8: the first place. But if they're going to, you know,

478
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 8: let's handle it with some care and respect and some dignity.

479
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: I have similar hopes as what you said, and that

480
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: is for more people to know about it. First of all,

481
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: just what has happened and God forbid, continues to happened

482
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: on Katau so at least people can be making informed

483
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: choices when going there, because so many of the people

484
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: we spoke to said, I just had no idea that

485
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: this was happening, and maybe someone might rethink a choice. Also,

486
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: if there's any information and clarity that can come to

487
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: any of these parents, that would be the largest win.

488
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: Or that if someone comes out and you know, they're

489
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: brought from not knowing to having closure. As you said,

490
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: that's why at the end of every episode we ask people,

491
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: if you have any information, shoot us an email and

492
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 1: we try and get it into the right hands.

493
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 9: I hope would be that we can disprove any mistruths

494
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 9: or myths, you know, like Connor said, you know, we

495
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 9: don't necessarily think it's one serial killer. And I think

496
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 9: there's a lot of hardworking, good people on the island

497
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 9: and so just kind of set their record straight.

498
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 6: I would say it's just a general higher purpose for

499
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 6: all of us here at KT is really just to

500
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 6: at the bare minimum shed light on something and hopefully

501
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 6: let that guide us from there, and and to do

502
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 6: a full three sixty on the story as opposed to

503
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 6: have it have a point of view going in. I

504
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 6: think you guys do such a great job of keeping

505
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 6: any of your predispositions aside. You start looking into something

506
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 6: and you don't know where it's going to lead.

507
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: If you have any information about any of the cases

508
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: discussed this season, please contact us at producers at ktdash

509
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: studios dot com For more information and relevant photos. Follow

510
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at kt Underscore Studios. Death Island is

511
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Jeff Shane,

512
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Gabriel Chistio and me Courtney Armstrong Editing and

513
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: sound design by Jeff Tooi music by vanicor Music. Death

514
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: Island is a production of iHeartRadio and Kat Studios. For

515
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

516
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,