1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: He goes on a relaxing vacation with his family to 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: Florida and he comes home in a box dead. How 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: did that happen? I'm see Grace. This is Crime Stories. 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: and on Serius XM one eleven. First of all, take 7 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: a listen to this. 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: Deputies from the Dixie County Sheriff's Office show up at 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 3: the rental home and an extensive search begins, with family 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 3: members joining deputies. Hours pass as the search covers the 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 3: canal behind the home and nearby docks and boat houses. 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 3: David Rainey cannot be found. In the early evening hours, 13 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 3: deputies decide to go back to the canal and look 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 3: one last time. It is during this last look they 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 3: see the body of David Rainey submerged in the water 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 3: of the canal behind the house. He's been stabbed have 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 3: multiple times in the. 18 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: Chest, multiple stab wounds in the chest, and then submerged 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: in water. Wow, they didn't just kill him once. They 20 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: killed him at least two times over. I've got an 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: all star panel to makes sense of what we know 22 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: right now. But before I get into other details, regarding 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: the stabbing death or was it a drowning death, don't 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: know yet. Before I get into the details about how 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: this guy goes on a family vacation and ends up 26 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: stabbing multiple times submerged in water in a canal. What 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: a family vacation. I'm thinking about my family vacations. Let's see, 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: my husband and I took the children on an RV 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: trip across the country from Atlanta to Nashville, to Saint 30 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: Louis to all the way to the Tetons and Yellstone. 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: Nobody end up stabbed, dead, submerged in water. Thinking about 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: trips I took with my parents. We go away for 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: one weekend and be a vacation to get Atlnburg to 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: see the mountains, smoky mountains. This is so bizarre. You 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: go on vacation with your family and you end up dead. 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 2: It's not like you're going to some far flung location 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: where you're completely out of touch with your family and 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: friends back home. Let's say around the world. You're not 39 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: going on in African safari where you could actually be 40 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: eaten by a lion on vacation. You're not doing a 41 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: daredevil vacation where you climb to the top of Mount Fuji. 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: This is just a family vacation to the beach. He 43 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: doesn't drown, he doesn't suffer a death you may associate 44 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: with going to the beach. He ends up stabbed and 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: submerged in a canal. What happens on vacation? Do you 46 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: let your defenses down and you don't notice when somebody's 47 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: sneaking up behind you? Is that what happened? Again? With me? 48 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: An all star panel to make sense of what we know. 49 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: But first I want to go to a special guest, 50 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 2: doctor jan Gorniac. I love this woman. She's brilliant. That's 51 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: why I love her. Doctor gen Gorniac, Board certified forensic pathologists, 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: former medical examiner in Clark County. You know what Clark 53 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: County is, right, Vegas. Never a lack of business for 54 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: the medical examiner in Vegas. Doctor Gorniac, thank you for 55 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: being with us. This guy, this dad, this husband doesn't 56 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 2: get killed once. He gets killed at least twice over 57 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: for I won't know until I see an X ray 58 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 2: if he got a blow to the head as well. 59 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: But how do you determine any case like this where 60 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: the dad is minding his own business, driving his family 61 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 2: to vacation, is stabbed multiple times, but yet submerged in 62 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: a canal. How do you determine what's the real cod 63 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: How do I know he wasn't poisoned? First? 64 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 4: That's excellent questions. So a case like this, with so 65 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 4: many possible causes of death, obviously we have to gather 66 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 4: as much information as we can and then plus do 67 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 4: a thorough, thorough, thorough autopsy and then also thorough thorough, 68 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 4: thorough medical history, gather everything we can. But obviously, when 69 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 4: we see somebody with multiple stab wounds of their chests, 70 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 4: that's not a natural death. So with not his high 71 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 4: blood pressure, his diabetes, that killed him. But they probably 72 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 4: didn't know he had those stab wounds until he came 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 4: out of the water. 74 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, that's something I didn't know. Let 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 2: me think about. I mean, unless the knife is still 76 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: plunging in his chest like it is for Ellen Greenberg, 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 2: she's found with twenty plus stab wounds and a knife 78 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: still in her chest. You're so right. I didn't even 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: think about that aspect. Doctor Gorniac, Doctor Gangarniac. So you're right. 80 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: They pull him out of the water, submerged, surely all 81 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: the blood has been washed away. They may not even 82 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: know he's been stabbed until they get him all the 83 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: autopsy table. Wow. 84 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 4: Correct, So yeah, so obviously the body stays in the 85 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 4: water and they have to call out the medical examiner 86 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 4: corner to come and do the investigation. So it was 87 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 4: probably called in as a possible drowning because he's in water. 88 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 4: And then surprise, like you said, even at the at 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: the scene because obviously hopefully he has clothes on, so 90 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 4: you may not even have seen wounds until you get 91 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 4: back to the morgue and to start the autoposy, and 92 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 4: then you're just like, obviously this is more than a drowning. 93 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 4: So depending on you have to look at the stab 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 4: wounds and what internal injuries does he have to determine 95 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 4: which came first. Was it the stab wounds or was 96 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 4: he drowned? But it makes more sense that he was 97 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 4: drowned and then put it, I mean stabbed and then 98 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 4: put in the water. So, but what's the cause of 99 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 4: death depending on the injuries that we see or their 100 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 4: injuries to his lungs or the injuries to his heart, 101 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 4: and he lost a lot of blood and then drowning 102 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 4: what we call is a diagnosis of exclusion, So we 103 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 4: have to exclude everything. 104 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: I need to write that down, Dot Guarniac, drowning is 105 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: a diagnosis of exclusion. Is that what you just said? 106 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: Correct? So that means we have to exclude every other 107 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 4: possible cause of the death before we can say it's drowning. 108 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 4: And then there are soft signs we call soft signs 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 4: of drowning. Are the lungs filled with water? If someone 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 4: knew that water in their stomach, did they swallow water. 111 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 4: We also looked to see if there's water in the 112 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 4: sinuses in the head. So but based on these injuries, 113 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: it appears that the cause of death was the stab 114 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 4: wounds and then he was put in the water afterwards. 115 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 4: So I'm going to be confident in the medical examiner 116 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 4: and the frontic pathologists who did the autopsy that they 117 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 4: didn't see anything associated with drowning. He just happened to 118 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 4: be found in the water. 119 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: So okay, Doctor Garniac. Doctor Janegarniac joining me, we'renown pathologists 120 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 2: from a medical excit aminar. You said you look for 121 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: soft signs. Guys, for the first thing we've got to 122 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: do is determine if we can cod cause the death. 123 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: Let me think this through, you know, just a trial lawyer. 124 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: So you get the body. They find the body submerged 125 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: in water in a canal. They may not have known 126 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: at that time when they fish him out that he 127 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: has been stabbed. They may not know if there are 128 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: blunt force injuries to the head. There may be subdoral bleeding, 129 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: bleeding to the brain. They don't know any of that. 130 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: They get him to the crime lab, and yes, I 131 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: believe he was clothed. That's when they most likely realize 132 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: this guy's been stabbed multiple times in the chest at least. 133 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: So I thought, Okay, you're saying soft signs of drowning 134 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: water in the lungs, the stomach, sinuses, head. When you 135 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: say head, you mean in the sinuses that are in 136 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: the head. 137 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 4: Yes, correct, the sinuses in the head. Okay, we can 138 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 4: see big water there, but it doesn't mean But also, 139 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 4: like I said, it's an exclusion. So just because we 140 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 4: don't see that doesn't mean it wasn't a drowning. But 141 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 4: we have to put all the pieces together. So but 142 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 4: I would think either way we also call it, you know, 143 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 4: a death in a hostile environment, even if he there 144 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 4: was partly some things of drowning. He died from stabling's 145 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 4: he just happened to be in the water. 146 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: What do you do? Take the lungs out of the body, 147 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: and then you put them in water and see if 148 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: they float. How do you determine if the lungs are 149 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: full of water? 150 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 4: Okay, great question. So the lungs are going to float anyway, 151 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 4: because there's gonna be air in the lungs because that's 152 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 4: how we breathe. So those are going to float regardless. 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 4: But we weigh them, so sometimes the lungs get heavy 154 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 4: because they're filled with water. And then also when we 155 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 4: cut into the lungs, we can see water coming out. 156 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: Oh okay, well, well I gotta write that down. You 157 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: cut into the lungs and if water comes out, well okay, 158 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: then is there any way water can be in the 159 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: lungs if you're dead before you go in the water. 160 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 5: No. 161 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 4: So the thing is, well, let me back up a 162 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 4: little bit. So people don't die instantaneously. So what happens 163 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 4: is people they start to you know, they're in the 164 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 4: process of dying. That means their breathing is slowing down. 165 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 4: So when you're breathing slows down and you're not breathing adequately, 166 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 4: you can get food built up in your lungs. So 167 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 4: that's kind of like the same fool that I'm talking about. 168 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 4: But we can actually, like I said, if people, you know, 169 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 4: inhale water, it'll be much more than that process of dying. 170 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 2: So unless, okay, if you're dead when you go in 171 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 2: the water, if you're already dead, let's just ciph from stablings. 172 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: Your lungs don't get water in them. The water doesn't 173 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: somehow seep into them. Correct, Okay, so you have to 174 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: inhale the water for there to be water in your lungs. Guys, 175 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: we're finally getting somewhere. We're finally figuring out a little 176 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: bit thanks to doctor Jan Gorniak. Hey, you know what, Jackie, 177 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 2: could you play that one more time? I want to 178 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: make sure I got every word of that one more 179 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: time please. 180 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 3: Deputies from the Dixie County Sheriff's Office show up at 181 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: the rental home and an extensive search begins, with family 182 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 3: members joining deputies. Hours pass as the search covers the 183 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: canal behind the home and nearby docks and boat houses. 184 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: David Rainey cannot be found. In the early evening hours, 185 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: deputies decide to go back to the canal and look 186 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 3: one last time. It is during this last look they 187 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: see the body of David Rainey submerged in the water 188 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 3: of the canal behind the house. He's been stabbed multiple 189 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: times in the chest. 190 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 191 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: Okay, this is in Swanee, Florida, and I want to 192 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: make sure about something, Doctor Gorniac. Jen Smith hold On, 193 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: chief investigative reporter with Dailymail dot Com. That's where I 194 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 2: first found out about this case, Doctor Gorniac. This is Florida, 195 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: all right, How do I know stab wounds? I'm not 196 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 2: a gator. Don't laugh, because did I tell you what 197 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: happened with my son and daughter. We were at Disney 198 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: right outside the Floridian This was years ago. They were 199 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: only about oh gosh, it was during Top Mom. They 200 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: had to be like three years old. And we were 201 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 2: playing by the water and I let John David go 202 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: out in the water up to his knees to throw rocks. David, 203 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: my husband, who has done a lot of business in 204 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: Florida with his job, said get him out of the 205 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: water right now. And I'm like, no, don't tell me 206 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: what to do. Number one, And he went there are gators. 207 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: I'm like, there are no gators. This is Disney. Nothing 208 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: bad happens at Disney. He like, get him out. I'm like, okay, 209 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: I'll get him out. But I'm only doing it because 210 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: you're crazy. I'm not doing it because there's a gator. 211 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: Guess what, Like it was less than a year later. 212 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: I think that timing is right. A gator grabbed a 213 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: little kid in Disney. So how do I know this 214 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: is from stab wounds and not a gator? Well, first 215 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: of all, the gator would have eaten him. But that said, 216 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: how do you tell the wounds apart? 217 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 4: Once again, you have fantastic questions. We have to look 218 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: at the characteristics of the wounds. 219 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 2: I bet you didn't think I was going to ask 220 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: you about a gator biite, did you? 221 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 5: I did not. 222 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 6: I did not. 223 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 4: Maybe a turtle, but not a gator. So we do 224 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 4: have to Like when people are found in water, there 225 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 4: could be some animals in the water that will you know, 226 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 4: eat on the body. So the difference we can tell 227 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 4: the difference between a ante mortem or pre before depth and 228 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 4: post mortem wounds just because your body has to react 229 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 4: to it. Yeah, like bleed or some swelling and and 230 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: you're absolutely right if this was a gator bite, I 231 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 4: don't think voter found him right. I'm not sure they're 232 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 4: just going to bite and then leave, But we could 233 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 4: look at characteristics of the wound, and that way we 234 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 4: can tell the difference between you know, and then where 235 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: they are. You know what I mean. It's just not 236 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 4: it'd be difficult for a gator just to get like 237 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 4: top teeth into the chest. It's not going all the 238 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 4: way through the body. Maybe at the arm. You know, 239 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 4: you can chomp on the arm. I'm sorry to say that, 240 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 4: but it'd be difficult just to have wound on the 241 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 4: top of the body and nowhere else to do with. 242 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 2: A gator bik okay uh, Doctor Corney, I am subjecting 243 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: you to the same things I subjected medical examiners too 244 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 2: when I was trying cases. All sorts of questions that 245 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 2: may be completely irrelevant, but if you listen to all 246 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: of them, you finally start honing in on the real 247 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: cod the real cause of death. Now who this guy 248 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: didn't stab himself? Take a listen to our friends at 249 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: crime online dot com. 250 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 3: After a lifetime of living on the Atlantic side of 251 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: Florida and Palm Coast, David and Cindy decided it's time 252 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: to see how the other half lives. Along the West 253 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 3: coast of Florida. They rent a cottage for the weekend 254 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 3: along the canal in Sewanne, Florida, one hundred and forty 255 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 3: miles from home. Now young adults, the rainy Suns, Bailey 256 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: and Jack, plus a family friend Jeffrey Sawyer join them 257 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 3: for the weekend getaway. But on Saturday, David walks away 258 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: from the home and doesn't come back. 259 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 2: Okay, let me talk to you about the West Coast 260 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: and the East coast of Florida. So they live on 261 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: the Atlantic side and that would be the East coast 262 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: of Florida, and they want to go over to the 263 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: West coast now with me. And she's used to answering 264 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: questions in court. Kelly Hyman renow lawyer, joining us out 265 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: of Florida. She's also a TV legal analyst. She's the 266 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: host of Once Upon a Crime and Hollywood, which I love. 267 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: Once Upon a Crime in Hollywood. Kelly Hyman. The difference 268 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: between the Atlantic Coast and the Gulf Coast its like 269 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 2: on the Gulf of Mexico, and that water is much 270 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: warmer and the beaches are different. They're more like sugar 271 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: sugar white beaches on the west coast of Florida. Am 272 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: I getting this bass Ackwards or Am I right? And 273 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: it's an even milder temperature. 274 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 7: That is one hundred percent right. Absolutely, the water is 275 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 7: a different temperature and the beaches are different texture as well. 276 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 7: You're spot on, Nancy. 277 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. It's beautiful. And this is how I know 278 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: that my dad was from a little town hay Cody, Alabama, Okay, 279 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: which is near a which is near Enterprise, which is 280 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: near Mobile. That's say, you know where Hey Cody is. 281 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: I think that's an Indian name. But long story short, 282 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: he grew up on the Panhandle and we would go 283 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: there as children. This first time I ever saw the ocean, 284 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: and it is amazing. So they want to go over 285 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: and as our friend at crime Online said, see how 286 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: the other half live on the other side of the state. 287 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: So they go over and I'm not quite sure how 288 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: this guy who's there with his family ends up did 289 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 2: joining me right now? Chief investigative reporter with dailymail dot Com, 290 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: Jen When I first found out about David Rainey's murder, 291 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: I found out because I saw a blurb, a little 292 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 2: blip on daily Mail. Tell me about them getting there. 293 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: And I've seen this. You you're on the water, your 294 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: rental home, you know, like an Airbnb. It's on the water, 295 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: but it's canal water. You're not on the the beach. 296 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 2: They have canals dug and people big enough to take 297 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: boats back and forth. They have docs and you can 298 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 2: be right on that canal and it's really nice. So 299 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: I'm taking it that's where the rental was correct. 300 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, So the Rainy family already were living, you know, 301 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 6: by the beach palmcost, very beachy sort of tone. They 302 00:16:54,400 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 6: were enjoying that kind of Atlantic coastal lifestyle. They wanted 303 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 6: to as you know, our friends said, check out how 304 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 6: the other half lived. So they go to this time 305 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 6: in Sowanni to Dixie County. It's kind of, you know, 306 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 6: halfway between sort of Gainesville and the rest of the Panhandle, 307 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 6: and they rent a vacation heights for the weekend that 308 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 6: at the back of the yard, the very rear of 309 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 6: the backyard, there is this canal which you know flows 310 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 6: through many of the homes there. It's meant to be 311 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 6: this kind of idyllic setting for vacationing. So David Rainey 312 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 6: goes with his wife Cindy, their two sons, her young adults, 313 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 6: and this family friend. And the plan was to go for, 314 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 6: you know, a relaxing weekend in a different part of 315 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 6: their beloved state, and of. 316 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: Course, completely showered in sunshine. It's beautiful and out of 317 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 2: the blue, in the midst of a vacation, he ends 318 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 2: up stabbed dead and in the canal. Karen Stark is 319 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 2: with me, a renounced psychologist. You've heard of her before 320 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: on TV, on radio. She's a consultant as well. You 321 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: can find her at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with 322 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: a C. Karen. You know I talked to you before 323 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 2: I wrote my last book, Don't Be a Victim, about 324 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 2: how when you go on vacation you seemingly let your 325 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 2: guard down a little bit because in your mind, you're 326 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: away from all the stress, you're away from all the danger, 327 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: the pressure of regular life, and everything's going to be fine. 328 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: Like I was just talking about Disney, I think you 329 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: let your guard down a little bit when you're on vacation. 330 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 2: What to what do you First of all, do you 331 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: agree and second to what do you attribute that? 332 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 8: Yes, I agree with what you said, Dancy, I do 333 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 8: believe you that you're you let your guard down. I 334 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 8: think it's because you're much more relaxed, and it's not 335 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 8: your everyday situation where you might be more cautious, you're 336 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 8: not aware of your surroundings. But what's very odd to 337 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 8: me about this picture, particular story, is that he's left, 338 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 8: and he left behind things that you would normally, under 339 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 8: any circumstance stances not leave, like his wallet, his glasses. 340 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 8: I mean, that is not just being relaxed. That's not 341 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 8: being prepared for anything. It's not being you. If you 342 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 8: understand what I mean, it's not yourself. It's not what 343 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 8: you would normally do, it's not your habit. 344 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I was going out for 345 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 2: a stroll if I would take all of that. I 346 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: don't take my keys in my wallet, you take glasses. 347 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: I may depend if you say glasses, it depends, and 348 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: if I'm short sighted or far sighted, or if they're 349 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: reading glasses. I'm not planning on reading a manifesto when 350 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: I'm taking a walk or a jog, So I don't know. 351 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 2: I don't know if I agree with you or not, 352 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: but I do find it on he didn't have his 353 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: cell phone, because that's something almost everybody takes everywhere they go. 354 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: So you're right about that, Karen Stark. So what do 355 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 2: we know in addition to what Jensmith from dailymail dot 356 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: com is telling us, take a listen to our friends 357 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: at crime Online. 358 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: David walking out of the house so left his glasses, 359 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: wallet and cell phone behind in their rental home. David 360 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 3: still hadn't returned. Cindy calls police an extensive surgeencies and 361 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 3: continues throughout the day without success. It wasn't until early 362 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 3: evening that same day that deputies found David Rainey's body 363 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 3: submerged in the canal in the backyard of the rental house. 364 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: He's been stabbed multiple times in the chest and was 365 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 3: still in the same clothes he was last seen wearing. 366 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 3: Police said the body was placed in the water after death. 367 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 3: David Rainie's death has ruled a homicide, but his obituary 368 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 3: says simply that he passed away unexpectedly. 369 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 2: I don't know if I fought the family with that. 370 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: Who wants the final article on your life to be 371 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: you were murdered? Maybe they wanted it to didn't want 372 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 2: the whole world to know that he was murdered. Also 373 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: joining me right now special guests. Former Miami Day Police 374 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,479 Speaker 2: homicide detective now private investigator in Florida, and you can 375 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 2: find him at South fl Florida PI dot com South 376 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: FLPI dot com. Pat Diaz. Why didn't they find him 377 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: the first time they went to search? I don't know 378 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: that they even looked in the canal, But why do 379 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 2: you believe they didn't see in the first time they went? 380 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 5: Well, this case is interesting, and I'll tell you why. 381 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 5: Palmcoast is a busy area of Florida, verificationing in Dixie 382 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 5: County to small community. The Sheriff's department is not real large, 383 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 5: so you don't have experience investigators out there. Do I 384 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 5: think he left his house and took a walk. No, 385 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 5: what I think happened is because of the heat in Florida. 386 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 5: I've had many cases where people have been stabbed and 387 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,959 Speaker 5: been dumped in the canal. Initially he went to the bottom, 388 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 5: but as they got and hotter, that's when he surfaced. 389 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 5: That's why. Initially, the family says, then when they did 390 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 5: the initial search, they can't find them. But later on 391 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 5: in the day, as the heat grew, I think he 392 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 5: came to the surface. And like I said, we're going 393 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 5: to a sheriff's office that may not have the expertise, 394 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 5: like you know, we have five thousand men in Miami 395 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 5: Dad where a homicide unit comes out, so they may 396 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 5: not been able to search the canal with boats or 397 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 5: have diavers come out, but that would have been the 398 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 5: first place you check is with a diverts You checked 399 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 5: the canal. 400 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, Pat dis, I'm so glad you 401 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: said that because the Palm County sheriffs and the police 402 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 2: have been taking a black eye on that. I've got 403 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: a lot of confidence in them, even though they're a 404 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: small outfit that they looked out in the canal, they 405 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: saw nothing and at that juncture didn't realize that they 406 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: needed to dredge the canal or send down divers. And 407 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 2: you're absolutely right to Jen Gorniac joining us from Clark 408 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: County the Vegas jurisdiction, Doctor gorniack, He's right. The body 409 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: would then begin to build up gases and float. 410 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 4: So for me, it was he wasn't in the water 411 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 4: that long, correct, We don't know. 412 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 5: I think he was in the water all day because 413 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 5: I think to search they searched earlier and then they 414 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 5: found him later at either. 415 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: They may have been in the water since the day 416 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: before when he left the house, because it wasn't until 417 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: the next morning that he was reported missing. So he 418 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: could have been in the water, you know, thirty six 419 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: hours before his body started to float. 420 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 4: And that's true. That seems to go and that's that's possible. 421 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 4: And one, I don't know how deep this canal is. 422 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: Deep enough for watercraft. Watercraft can go back and forth 423 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 2: in the canal. 424 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 5: Most canals of Florida run fifteen to twenty feet deep. 425 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 5: They're pretty they're pretty deep and the water. 426 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: So that could explain why he wasn't seen immediately. Okay, guys, 427 00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: listen to this. 428 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: The Dixie County Shriff Office ask the public for help. 429 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 3: There were no leads and the only thing police know 430 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 3: for sure is that the death was a homicide. There 431 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 3: were also no suspects and no leads coming in. Police 432 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 3: also didn't have a potential motive. 433 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: Okay, that's a little known secret. Pat Diaz joining me 434 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: from Miami Dade homicide detective. When the cops have to 435 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: ask the public make a public appeal for tips, they're 436 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 2: stumped and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. 437 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: I think there's everything right with it. I'm glad they 438 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 2: did it. But when you hear cops saying, hey, if 439 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 2: you've seen anything, if you know anything, if you think 440 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: you know anything, dial this number. That means they need 441 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 2: help and they're doing the right thing. Would you agree 442 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: with that? Pat Das. They're stumped. No leads, no motive, 443 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: no nothing. 444 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 5: Absolutely what they have They have a house and they 445 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 5: have a missing witness. So yes, they're looking for that 446 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 5: lead with about that person that nobody ever talks about 447 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 5: is God. But you also have the house and to 448 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 5: do a correct finances on the house it takes a while, 449 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 5: so they're going to look for other leaves to help them. 450 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 5: So that's the correct thing to do. 451 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 2: Of course, you look at the house for clothes, you 452 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: look at the phone, you look at the laptop, you 453 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 2: look at social media, you look at calls, texts. All 454 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: of that reveals nothing. And now they're making a public appeal. 455 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 2: So who is this guy? Is there anything in his 456 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: past that could tell me what happened to him? Because 457 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: you know, I always say, if you don't know a horse, 458 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: look at his track record. Is there anything lurking in 459 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 2: his past that could put us on the right direction. 460 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 3: Listen, David Rainey was a very good athlete in his youth. 461 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 3: He had a passion for playing sports and that was 462 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 3: passed on to his own children With his wife, Cindy. 463 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 3: The couple was married for twenty one years. The Rainy 464 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 3: family traveled with sons Bailey and Jack and their baseball teams, 465 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: making trips to Alaska, Cooperstown, even the White House. Rainy 466 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: earns a living as a tradesman. After attending Schenectady Welding 467 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: School in New York. Ranny specialized becoming a wel drimed 468 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 3: mechanic on steam and gas turbines. His expertise led him 469 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 3: to work for well known companies including Corona Engineering, Siemens, 470 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: and Ethos Energy. During the lifetime of his career, Rani 471 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 3: worked all over the country, from California to Florida. 472 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: Okay, did you hear what Dave mac just said. This 473 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 2: guy has ties in New York, got ties in Senectady. 474 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: He's worked all around the country. He has connections all 475 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: around the country. So that really opens up the investigation. 476 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: So what does the family do? They are actually out 477 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: helping search for their father, for their husband. They're not 478 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 2: just sitting back, They're trying to find him. Listen to more. 479 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 3: Five days after their father was stabbed to death, then 480 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 3: his body tossed into a canal, the sons of David 481 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 3: Rainey started to go fundme Paige. The organizer of the 482 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 3: fundraiser is Bailey Jack Rainey. And in the log line 483 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 3: where you explain the reason you're asking people to give 484 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 3: you money, Bailey Jack Rainey wrote in lua flowers in 485 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 3: the Loving Remembrance of David's life, the family asked that 486 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: a charitable donation be made to his sons, Bailey and 487 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 3: Jack for their future. Thank you and God bless It 488 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: raised just four hundred and seventy five dollars. 489 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: Four hundred and seventy five dollars. Wait, okay, that's not 490 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 2: a lot of money, Is that right, Jen Smith? They 491 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: do go funny when I look at Gofunmi's online, they're 492 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 2: raising tens of thousands of dollars. They only got four 493 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 2: hundred and said, wait, wait, how old are the sons. 494 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 6: Old enough to know better? These are young adults. They 495 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 6: are done with school. They do not need any more 496 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 6: help in the education. 497 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 2: Depart Okay, why wait, wait, wait wait, how old are 498 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: these two sons that are hitting me up for money 499 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 2: on GoFundMe in their early one is that you Padiaz? 500 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: Does somebody just say nineteen and twenty one? Okay, that's Padias. 501 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: I recognize you for it is Jim Smith? Is he right? 502 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 2: Are they nineteen and twenty one? And they are asking 503 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 2: for money, quote for their future? Fort how about get 504 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: a job? How about secure your future like that? I 505 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 2: had to start working when I was fifteen? What okay, 506 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 2: Jenn Smith explain the guy's finally to me. 507 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 6: So the two boys launched this gofund me. 508 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 2: The mother's name boys was in his twenties. 509 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 6: The sons, the two sons. Then the two sons launch 510 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 6: this GoFundMe within you know, five days of their Doug's 511 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 6: brugual murder when it's still unsold. And yeah, they're they're 512 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 6: asking for money for their future. They don't specify if 513 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 6: it's because they want, you know, help to learn a 514 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 6: specific trade, or if one of them wants to go 515 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 6: to college to do this, or if one of them 516 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 6: has a medical bill that needs paying. None of that 517 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 6: is provided in the way that it normally would be 518 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 6: on a go fundme, you know, for a family in need, 519 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 6: and like you mentioned, Wait a. 520 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: Minute, did you just say a family in need? Hey, 521 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 2: don't scam me, Jenn Smith, family in need, Myria rant. 522 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: They're at an Airbnb on a canal by the beach 523 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: in Florida. That ain't change. 524 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 6: No, that's not what I'm not calling them a family 525 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 6: in need. I'm saying it's quite common for a GoFundMe 526 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 6: page to be launched for a family in need when 527 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 6: they are struck by tragedy, like the ones you just 528 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 6: mentioned that raise ten tens of thousands of dollars. But 529 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 6: clearly this is not a family in need. These are 530 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 6: not young adults who need anything from the public. And 531 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 6: you know the fact that they launched it within five 532 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 6: days of their father's unsold murder, it raises even more questions. 533 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 2: You know, I think that Karen Starr, you live through 534 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 2: this with me. I think that one on the worst 535 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 2: days of my life was when I had to sit 536 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: at the kitchen table at home and make and and 537 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 2: work on my father's obituary. I hate even remembering it. 538 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 9: And now these two are trying to get money off 539 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 9: at go fundme. They're nineteen and twenty one years old 540 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 9: to secure their future. I just, of course, nobody's on trial, 541 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 9: nobody's charged with soliciting funds from General US and Open Hearts. 542 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 9: But you know what Karen started. I'm sure defense Tree 543 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 9: will say that means absolutely nothing, but it means something 544 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 9: to make Karen. 545 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 4: Yes, Nancy, it means something to you. 546 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 8: But this is such a very strange I mean, I've 547 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 8: been a part of what's going on in your life. 548 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 8: This is very strange case though. I mean, I don't understand. 549 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 8: I don't understand the go fund me for these adult 550 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 8: and they're almost adult but really adult guys. I don't 551 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 8: understand an argument where he walks off, whether it's he 552 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 8: didn't bring his glasses or his cell phone. There is 553 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 8: something really wrong in this tale that the police didn't 554 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 8: find him. That it's very strange and unusual that you 555 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 8: have this. 556 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 2: And this money motive, this thread and now is woven 557 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: even more so, take a listen to investigative reporter Dave Mack. 558 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 3: A surprising twist in the unseen murder of David Rainey 559 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: is a lawsuit filed by his mother, Francis June Archibald 560 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 3: of Vero Beach Florida, filed a civil lawsuit in Flagler 561 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 3: County against her daughter in law, Cindy Rainey, her grandsons 562 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: Bailey and Jack Raney, and two others. The lawsuit seeks 563 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: more than fifty thousand dollars in damages and accuses the 564 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: defendants of interfering with and mishandling David Rainey's body after 565 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 3: his death. The details of the lawsuit aren't known, and 566 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: the case is still making its way through the courts. 567 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 3: Archibald has not common. 568 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 569 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: Jen Smith is with me, chief investigative reporter with dailymail 570 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 2: dot Com. Jen Smith, are you telling me that David 571 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: Rainey's the dead dad, the husband. David Rainey's mother sues 572 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: his family, her daughter in law and her grandsons, the 573 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: ones that are asking for money on Go Bummy for 574 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: mishandling his body. 575 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is correct. 576 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 6: So we have this lawsuit filed by David Rainey's mother 577 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 6: down in Via Beach, which we don't have access to 578 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 6: the full set of documents. Obviously that they will contain 579 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 6: a lot, But the essence of this lawsuit is not 580 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 6: that they themselves were responsible for his death, but she 581 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 6: alleged that they were responsible for tampering with the body, 582 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 6: dumping the body in this canal, and lying to police 583 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 6: about him going for a walk, and for the rest 584 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 6: of it. So the fact that the mother, the big 585 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 6: boys or these young adult men, their own grandmother, and 586 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 6: this woman's mother in law is suspicious of them tells 587 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 6: you a lot about how this mother, David Ramie's mother 588 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 6: and his fate of the family are viewing the wife 589 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 6: and the two sons. 590 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: David Rainey's wife, Cindy and their two sons, Bailly and 591 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: Jack Rainey the subject of a civil lawsuit filed by 592 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: David raine the dad husband mother against them for tampering 593 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 2: and mishandling his body. So if they mishandled his body, 594 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: doesn't that mean that they knew about his death or 595 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 2: that the mother in law believes they're the killers. Well, 596 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: apparently local police agree. 597 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 3: Listen, it's been more than two years since David Rainey's 598 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 3: body was found submerged in water and stabbed to death. 599 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: Police have no suspects in the murder, but that doesn't 600 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 3: mean they've not made an arrest. The Dixie County Sheriff's 601 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 3: Office says three of David Rainey's family members have been arrested. 602 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 3: David Rainey's wife and two sons were all charged with 603 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 3: tampering with evidence, apparently related to the dumping of Rainey's 604 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 3: body in the canal after he was stabbed. Investigators with 605 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 3: the Dixie County Sheriff's Office traveled to Bonnell, Florida, and 606 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 3: arrested Cindy Rainey and Bailey Rainey then traveled to Orlando, Florida, 607 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 3: and arrested Jack Raney. Cindy Rainey, Bailey Rainey, and Jack 608 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 3: Ranny are being held without bond in Florida. Tampering with 609 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 3: evidence is counted as a third degree felony, with penalties 610 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 3: of up to five years in prison or five years 611 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 3: of probation and a five thousand dollars fine. Police still 612 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: have not released a suspect or a possible motive for 613 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:42,959 Speaker 3: the Rainy murder. 614 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand this, everybody on this panel, especially 615 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: you Kelly Hyman pile on. So the mother in law 616 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 2: sues for mishandling the body. Now the mother wife and 617 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: the two adult sons with tampering with a body. But 618 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: that's not all. Take a listen to our cut twenty three. 619 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,239 Speaker 3: David Raney's unsolved murder brought about competing claims for life 620 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 3: insurance benefits. This led to Life Insurance of North America 621 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 3: to file its own lawsuit, naming David Rannie's wife, Cindy Ranny, 622 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 3: sons Bailey Rainey and Jack Ranny, his mother June Francis Archibald, 623 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 3: and others. The goal of the life insurance company is 624 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 3: to let a court decide who gets the money. The 625 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 3: lawsuit mentions the wrongful death lawsuit filed against Cindy Rainey, 626 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: Bailey Ranny, and Jack Ranny, alleging that each of them 627 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 3: unlawfully and intentionally killed David Rainey and then disposed of 628 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 3: his body in the canal behind the vacation running. 629 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 2: Okay, so, Jen Smith, that's a civil lawsuit, and the 630 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 2: insurance company, to my understanding, the life insurance company is 631 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 2: suing the whole kitten kaboodle, and they, the life insurance company, 632 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 2: is claiming that the wife, Cindy Raney, and the two 633 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 2: sons bailing Jack Raney, that they intentionally killed David Nie. 634 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 2: They're saying it, but the police are not saying. Do 635 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: I have that right? 636 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 5: No? 637 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 6: Not quite. Within this lawsuit, the one that's been filed 638 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 6: by the insurance company. They're basically putting their hands up 639 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 6: in the air, saying, we don't want to have to 640 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 6: pay out this policy twice. Now, this is quite a 641 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 6: large sum of money. It's four hundred and seventy five 642 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 6: thousand dollars thereabout. Within their case, they make reference to 643 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 6: another civil lawsuit, and that other civil lawsuit is blaming 644 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 6: the family for the death. Now, we don't know if 645 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 6: that is the language that is contained in David Rainie's 646 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 6: mother's lawsuits. You know, the earlier when we were talking 647 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 6: about that, we don't have still access to. So it's 648 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 6: not the life insurance company that's making this allegation. What 649 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 6: the life insurance company is saying is while this is 650 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 6: you know, being contested, and while we have this active 651 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 6: police investigation and these two peaching cleans for the half 652 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 6: a million dollar life insurance policy, we don't want to 653 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 6: be stuck in the middle. Let the courts decide. 654 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 2: Okay. So you're saying this life insurance company isn't pointing 655 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 2: the finger. They're quoting somebody else who's pointing the finger. 656 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 6: That's correct. 657 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 2: So they quote that these three are lawfully and intentionally 658 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 2: killed David Rainey and disposed of his body in the 659 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: canal behind the vacation rental. I mean, you know, Pat Diaz, Nan, Yeah, 660 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: hold on here, and you know I'll lose my thought, 661 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 2: Pat Diaz. A lot of people would say this is 662 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: too stupid to be true. They kill him and dump 663 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: him in the backyard basically in the canal. But you know, 664 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 2: a lot of criminals are incredibly stupid. They just they're 665 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 2: not thinking strategically, like, Wow, the first place CoP's going 666 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 2: to look are out back in the canal. It happens. 667 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 5: No, I agree, I agree, especially they're out Remember we're 668 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 5: in we're in Dixie County. We're out in the middle 669 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 5: of nowhere. That's a perfect solution to get rid of 670 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 5: a body, and they could be gone by time that 671 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 5: body serves us. It just happened to be depending on 672 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 5: a how hot that was that day, the body came 673 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 5: up faster and they were able to find it. But yes, 674 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 5: that would be the ideal solution. 675 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 2: What were you saying, Karen Stark? 676 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 8: But it's just odd to me that they're arrested on 677 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 8: tampering with the body, but meanwhile they say he's missing, 678 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 8: they report him missing, so clearly they're saying they don't 679 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 8: know where the body is, but if they tampered with 680 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 8: the body, then they knew exactly where the body was. 681 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 6: So it's very odd. 682 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 8: It's as though somebody came in and killed him and 683 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 8: then they tampered with the body exactly. 684 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. And of course police are 685 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 2: saying they haven't ruled these three out as the killers. Well, okay, 686 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 2: I think that's pretty obvious. You know, I need Kelly Hymen, 687 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 2: and I need her now. Helped me make sense of this. 688 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 2: Why is a life insurance company the one publishing the charges? Well, 689 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 2: what's happening with the law enforcement? 690 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 7: Right, According to the complaint that was filed, there was 691 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 7: a huge insurance policy and according to the complaint, the 692 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 7: beneficiary was David's wife and the contingent beneficiary are his children. 693 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 7: We're talking four hundred hundred and sixty seven thousand dollars 694 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 7: that are at stake in this policy. So the insurance 695 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 7: company are saying, look, we have this money, we want 696 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 7: to give it, but we want to give it to 697 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 7: the right person. And going back to the other point 698 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 7: when we talk about Florida, about campering with physical evidence 699 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 7: in Florida, Campering with physical evidence occurs when a person 700 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 7: with the intent to pair the use of evidence, conceal, alter, 701 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 7: or just strong that evidence while being aware of the 702 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 7: existence of an investigation or criminal proceeding. So if the 703 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 7: state proved that, then potentially they've proved the element of 704 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 7: campering with evidence. 705 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 2: You know what I think they're doing. I think they're 706 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 2: trying to ferret out who is the least culpable and 707 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 2: get that one to roll over on the other two. 708 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 2: I think that's what's going on right now. Which one 709 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 2: will it be? I don't know, maybe none of them, 710 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 2: but they are, I guarantee you scouring through their social media, 711 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 2: their phones, their laptops, their iPads, their sell calls, they're 712 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 2: pinging them, and they're finding out the movements that these 713 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 2: three made leading up to the time that David Reiney 714 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 2: goes missing. And frankly, we don't know any went missing. 715 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: To Pat Diaz, former Miami Day Police homicide detective in 716 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 2: this jurisdiction of Florida, you said he probably hadn't risen 717 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 2: to the top of the water when the cops first came. 718 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 2: I don't know why. I'm not a doctor, I'm not 719 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: a water specialist. But how do I know they didn't 720 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 2: kill him three days before and stick him in the water. 721 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: Do I know they didn't hide his body in the 722 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 2: fridge and then stick him in the water. I mean, 723 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 2: there could be any number of scenarios. How long had 724 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 2: this guy really been dead when the wife the widow 725 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 2: calls police and to think if they are guilty, and 726 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 2: of course they haven't been charged. They were out acting 727 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 2: like they were searching for him. I bet they didn't 728 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 2: go out like they were looking in that canal. I 729 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 2: bet they didn't leave police over there. What about it? 730 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 5: Pat? I agree? I agree that most likely either they 731 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 5: came upon the body or they were aware of what 732 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 5: to happen, and that's why the police can't charge him 733 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 5: right now. They had to get rid of the body 734 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 5: one way to the other, and that's why they got 735 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 5: the tampering, and that's why I think they were charged 736 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 5: with that. But I also believe too that there was 737 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 5: an extensive there's a expensive crime scene someplace. Anytime you 738 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 5: got to Homsteine involved staffing, you're going to have extensive 739 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 5: blood all over the place. So there is a crime scene. 740 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 5: So they still may be working on DNA trying to 741 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 5: match up the DNA they found on the scene. So 742 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 5: that's just the beginning. I think it's maybe just the 743 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 5: beginning for them. Once they're in custody, they'll get their 744 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 5: DNA and they may not have been able to get 745 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 5: it back then, so now I have it now. So 746 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 5: there's I think the investigations still on, and that's why 747 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 5: he said there's still a persons that are interesting. 748 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 2: You know, one other fact that we have not mentioned, 749 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 2: wasn't a family friend along on that trip? Jenn Smith 750 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 2: Daily Mail. 751 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 5: There was. 752 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,280 Speaker 6: Indeed, we have this family friend whose names Jeffrey Sawyer, 753 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 6: who seemingly after this has vanished into spinnair. He's not 754 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 6: been charged, he has not been named in any of 755 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 6: these lawsuits that are flying around, no public comment about 756 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 6: what happened, no information about his connection to the family, 757 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 6: whether or not he was a friend of Cindy or 758 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 6: a friend of the victim, David. We know nothing about 759 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 6: this guy, why he was there, whether he himself is married, 760 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 6: whether he had any motives involved. There's a huge, huge 761 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 6: gazing hole in this investigation when it comes to this guy. 762 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 2: Authorities say they have not ruled out the widow and 763 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 2: the two adult sons, we wait as justice unfolds, and 764 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 2: of course they say they're not guilty. Goodbye sn