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Speaker 1: Take a deep breath in through your nose.

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Speaker 2: Holds it.

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Speaker 3: Now, release slowly.

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Speaker 2: Again deep in halle.

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Speaker 1: Hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect to

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Speaker 1: my voice. I am deeply, deeply well. I am deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply well. I am deeply wow.

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Speaker 4: I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on

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Speaker 4: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,

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Speaker 4: and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.

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Speaker 4: This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.

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Speaker 4: I'm Debbie Brown. Welcome back to the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 4: As always, I'm just so grateful you're here, and I

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Speaker 4: am loving every time you tag me and I get

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Speaker 4: to see a peek into your lives, especially if you

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Speaker 4: watch this on YouTube. Seeing it spread out on your TV.

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Speaker 4: Seeing your life, seeing the beautiful things in your homes

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Speaker 4: or what you're drinking and you're eating as you are

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Speaker 4: expanding and processing, literally fills me up inside.

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Speaker 2: So please keep it coming.

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Speaker 4: This week, I am We are going to some new

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Speaker 4: places on the show today and I just cannot wait

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Speaker 4: to share this special human with you. We have a

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Speaker 4: truly special guest joining us, someone whose work has deeply

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Speaker 4: impacted the way that we understand history, identity, and power.

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Speaker 4: We're diving into the erasure of women, especially Black women,

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Speaker 4: from the narrative of American history, the systems that perpetuate it,

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Speaker 4: and how we begin to reclaim what has been lost.

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Speaker 4: We're also going to explore what it means to honor difference,

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Speaker 4: to unearthed truth, and to do so with both rigor

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Speaker 4: and heart. Our guest today is Anna Malika Tubbs, an

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Speaker 4: extraordinary thinker, storyteller, and advocate who's committed her life to

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Speaker 4: celebrating the voices and contributions to often left out of

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Speaker 4: the story. Let me tell you a little bit more

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Speaker 4: about her. Anna Melika Tubbs is a two time New

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Speaker 4: York Times best selling storyteller who grew up in Dubai, Mexico, Sweden, Estonia, Azerbaijan,

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Speaker 4: as well as the United States. Influenced by her exposure

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Speaker 4: to all kinds of cultures and beliefs, Anna is inspired

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Speaker 4: to bring people together through the celebration of difference. Motivated

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Speaker 4: by her mother's work advocating for women's and children's rights

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Speaker 4: around the world, Anna uses the intersectional lens to advocate

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Speaker 4: for women of color and educate others in all of

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Speaker 4: her projects. Anna holds a PhD in sociology and a

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Speaker 4: master's in Multidisciplinary Gender Studies from the University of Cambridge,

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Speaker 4: in addition to a bachelor's in medical anthropology from Stanford University.

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Speaker 4: She takes from her academic background and produces content that

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Speaker 4: is easy for others to connect with and understand. Her

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Speaker 4: focus is on addressing gender and race issues in the US,

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Speaker 4: especially the pervasive erasure of Black women in e race.

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Speaker 4: New York Times best selling author Anamalika Tub's challenges the

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Speaker 4: sanitized narrative of American history with her signature blend of

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Speaker 4: research and engaging storytelling. Tubbs reveals how a deeply entrenched,

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Speaker 4: gendered hierarchy rooted in both patriarchy and whiteness, has systematically

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Speaker 4: erased the contributions of women and marginalized voices. This book

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Speaker 4: recovers the tools we need to take American patriarchy apart.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Wow, thank you so much for having me. That is

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Speaker 3: one of the best introductions, so thoughtful, so sweet that

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Speaker 3: I've ever heard.

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Speaker 4: Thank you truly, thank you so much, And you know

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Speaker 4: intros honestly mean so much to me on this show, truly,

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Speaker 4: because I think it's so in a world that is

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Speaker 4: so oversaturated by so many voices. We're on a planet

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Speaker 4: of nine billion. There is a lot of information, there

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Speaker 4: is a lot of perspective, but I feel it's so

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Speaker 4: important to do a few things. One grounded and grounded

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Speaker 4: in the person and what their bigger journey in life is,

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Speaker 4: and also really highlight that when people come into an expertise,

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Speaker 4: how much that actually requires and how deserving of reverence

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Speaker 4: that is.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. I think especially at a time where

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Speaker 3: there are a lot of quote experts, yeah, trying at

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Speaker 3: least to represent themselves that way, and people want to

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Speaker 3: trust other people, and so we oftentimes can't really sift

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Speaker 3: through who does know what they're talking about, either because

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Speaker 3: they've had lived experience or because they've studied it. Those

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Speaker 3: are both different forms of expertise. But there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of people out there who are posing as experts

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Speaker 3: and who, in my opinion, we can't really always trust.

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Speaker 3: And so I do find that helpful at least when

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Speaker 3: we can frame it sometimes and say, yes, this is

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Speaker 3: somebody that you can trust that you know, we've studied

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Speaker 3: this or we've spent time working on this, and that

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Speaker 3: doesn't have to be from whatever university. There's a lot

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Speaker 3: of ways in which people can become experts in their fields.

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Speaker 3: But I think, especially right now, we have to be

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Speaker 3: conscious of anybody out there putting content out there and

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Speaker 3: why they're doing it and with what motivation, but also

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Speaker 3: with what experience.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, so deeply agree with that.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 4: You know, we have been in fifteen years of centering

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Speaker 4: self right and a lot of reactionary content based on

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Speaker 4: you know, a personal opinion, not always a deeply thought

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Speaker 4: about opinion, right, but just kind of a personal opinion,

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Speaker 4: and the desire for attention for having opinions about things,

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Speaker 4: and you know, on the path of wisdom, shout out,

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Speaker 4: living a wisdom, but yes, on the path of wisdom.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's really it's such slow, steady work developing perspective,

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Speaker 4: really understanding how to even apply expertise to the things

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Speaker 4: happening in the world now to help others.

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Speaker 3: I struggle with this all the time because really, as

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Speaker 3: a writer, you know, there's this need obviously to get

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Speaker 3: your work out there, but the way our climate currently works,

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Speaker 3: in order to get attention, you have to respond as

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Speaker 3: fast as possible, and so there's so many people who

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Speaker 3: ask me, Hona, please, will you give me your reaction

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Speaker 3: to this thing. You know, you're an expert in these topics.

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Speaker 3: We want to know what you feel about what just

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Speaker 3: happened today. And I can say yes, based off of

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Speaker 3: all the things that I've studied, I could give you

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Speaker 3: a really quick reaction, but I like to take at

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Speaker 3: least day, maybe two. It sets us up in a

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Speaker 3: way where in order to be noticed, you feel like

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Speaker 3: you have to rush something, and that's it's a hard

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Speaker 3: thing to then really reach a very thoughtful perspective where

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Speaker 3: you're considering all the other possibilities to what you might

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Speaker 3: have to say. I'm somebody who wants to consider those things,

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Speaker 3: but I'm also trying to step into my own courage

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Speaker 3: a little bit more around this, because I have to

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Speaker 3: remind myself, actually, Anna, you've studied these things deeply. Your

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Speaker 3: reaction to something actually could be really helpful to people

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Speaker 3: without having to take too much time. So there's a

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Speaker 3: duality there. It's a little it's a little bit difficult

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Speaker 3: to know. Sometimes for me, it's not my nature to say, Okay,

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Speaker 3: here we go. I'm going to answer that right away,

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Speaker 3: but I am trying actually to see what might happen

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Speaker 3: if I step a little bit away from feeling like

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Speaker 3: I need to be so prepared and remind myself that

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Speaker 3: I have been preparing for these moments for a really

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Speaker 3: long time. I've earned that I actually can share my

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Speaker 3: thoughts without having to practice something or write something down

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Speaker 3: or do all the research. I have a lot of

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Speaker 3: that wisdom within me now, and I'm growing in that

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Speaker 3: wisdom constantly. So I think about this all the time.

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Speaker 4: But I love that. I love that so much. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: because at certain points it really does become about self trust, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I can trust myself, I can trust the knowledge, the

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Speaker 4: tools I've amassed exactly. Yeah, before we dive into this,

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Speaker 4: this triumph, you know, this really beautiful book that could

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Speaker 4: not have come at a better time. We are resetting

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Speaker 4: so much and this is the perfect time to build

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Speaker 4: from this knowledge. But so you've released this, You've released

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Speaker 4: this big old baby, You've released this really important body

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Speaker 4: of work and also have been on you know this

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Speaker 4: kind of like whirldwind tour with the book this, you know,

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Speaker 4: when speaking kind of breaking down some of these big

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Speaker 4: concepts that you deal with and that can be heavy, right,

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Speaker 4: like talking about a rature of women, talking about one

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Speaker 4: how systematic, methodical, how intentional it is that people have

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Speaker 4: done this to the voices of women, to especially the

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Speaker 4: voices of black women over centuries. And you're a mama, right,

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Speaker 4: and you're moving in the world with three children under

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Speaker 4: five and a half and a beautiful family, you know,

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Speaker 4: and a husband and a partnership and a beautiful life.

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Speaker 4: And when we talk about duality first, what is it

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Speaker 4: to hold those two truths?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all the things, all of those things are true,

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Speaker 3: and they're all the things that I love the most

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Speaker 3: and care so deeply about. And it really for me

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Speaker 3: is taking it a day at a time, living with

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Speaker 3: such gratitude for all that I get to participate in

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Speaker 3: my life. That I get to have this career where

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Speaker 3: I am putting work out there that I think is

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Speaker 3: helpful to people, that I hope will make a difference

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Speaker 3: in this world, that I hope will allow more of

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Speaker 3: us to understand each other and celebrate our differences and

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Speaker 3: live with less fear that we're targeting towards each other,

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Speaker 3: and hopefully live with more groundedness so that we're focused

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Speaker 3: on the things that we actually need to address, like

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Speaker 3: a system versus fighting each other. And my work and

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Speaker 3: these two books that I've put out are always intertwined

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Speaker 3: with my mothering. They're always intertwined with my life because

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Speaker 3: what I study affects every single part of our existence,

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Speaker 3: every stage of our lives, especially when we're talking about patriarchy,

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Speaker 3: and when I'm centering it in the United States and

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Speaker 3: I'm saying American patriarchy specifically, I'm saying it's something that

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Speaker 3: affects us even before we are born. And so my

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Speaker 3: mission and everything that I talked about before is also

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Speaker 3: always because I'm thinking about my babies and I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: about the world that I want to create for them

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Speaker 3: with them, and it's just an additional force within me,

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Speaker 3: something that always existed, something I always cared deeply about.

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Speaker 3: But I often describe motherhood as a growth of who

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Speaker 3: we always were, and I think a lot of times

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Speaker 3: mothers feel like the person who we were before children

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Speaker 3: is replaced and sometimes we forget her, and society, in

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Speaker 3: a lot of ways wants us to feel that way,

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Speaker 3: wants us to feel like who we are didn't matter.

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Speaker 3: And I want more mothers to feel like, no, this

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Speaker 3: is a growth. It's this incredible metamorphosis. Yes, but the

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Speaker 3: person who you always were is translating into this role.

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Speaker 3: And all the passions that you have before, the dreams

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Speaker 3: you had before, are carrying through beautifully into your mothering.

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Speaker 3: And so for me, I see that very clearly in

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Speaker 3: this life I get to live and the career I

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Speaker 3: get to have. When I'm traveling and having conversations and

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Speaker 3: sometimes I have to be away from my babies, I

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Speaker 3: also still feel deeply connected to my mothering because that

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Speaker 3: work is a part of that mothering, and my mothering

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Speaker 3: is a part of that work. And when I get

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Speaker 3: to just spend time with my kids and I'm unplugging

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Speaker 3: and I'm not checking any emails and I'm not on

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Speaker 3: my phone, that also brings me the inspiration that I need.

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Speaker 3: I have all these thoughts when I'm just looking at

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Speaker 3: the world through their eyes, and I think, you know

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Speaker 3: that's going to go in that next chapter. Something my

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Speaker 3: five year old says. I think that was deeply wise.

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Speaker 3: The way you're seeing the world is powerful, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's just constantly connected and they're building on each other.

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Speaker 3: So I try to bring those things together as much

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Speaker 3: as possible. And of course then there's the duality of

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Speaker 3: how I get sad that I can't be in both

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Speaker 3: places at the same time. Yeah, physically, I can't be

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Speaker 3: in both places at the same time. So I'm carrying

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Speaker 3: that constantly, but with gratitude. I get to do things

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Speaker 3: that I love to do. And yes, you talked about partnership.

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Speaker 3: I get to be in a relationship that I love

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Speaker 3: to be in and co create this world together. So

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Speaker 3: all of those things, So many different feelings came up

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Speaker 3: with that question.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and especially in this time right, like my goodness,

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Speaker 4: just even that I think with you know, some of

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Speaker 4: the works that so many brilliant voices are putting out,

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Speaker 4: like it's just it just keeps making me think back

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Speaker 4: to other really deeply pivotal moments in human history, and

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Speaker 4: just like you know, we look back at them and

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Speaker 4: so many of the people have passed, so we don't

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Speaker 4: know what was pulling and churning and moving or how

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Speaker 4: it odds the world was. With some of the work

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Speaker 4: coming out, I think a lot about you know, oh

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Speaker 4: what was James Baldwin was.

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Speaker 3: Just about to say, James Walden as you were talking.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, really, yes, you know, what was he conversing about,

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Speaker 4: how is he feeling about his work as he was

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Speaker 4: putting it out, And it's juxtaposed against the stage of

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Speaker 4: all that is, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Was unfolding in his time.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I think we're in a time where

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Speaker 4: so many things are happening that we thought humanity, this country,

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Speaker 4: you know, had.

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Speaker 2: Moved so far past.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true. And I definitely see myself as

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Speaker 3: somebody who's fortunate to be a part of this legacy

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Speaker 3: of writers who use their work in the power of

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Speaker 3: witnessing what we're facing currently. That when people pick up

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Speaker 3: our book, whether it's right now or twenty years from

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Speaker 3: now or fifty years from now, that they will see

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Speaker 3: what was happening in our time, and we'll see voices

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Speaker 3: that were offering a different perspective, a different path at

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Speaker 3: a time like this where so many people are afraid,

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Speaker 3: and rightfully so, at a time like this where it

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Speaker 3: feels like in many ways we're regressing as a nation,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of people feel that they're going to

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Speaker 3: be punished if they speak up. The voices that are

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Speaker 3: willing to say, hey, we can always build something different,

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Speaker 3: we can always challenge things that are wrong. We can

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Speaker 3: always look to examples throughout history of people who have

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Speaker 3: taught us that, and I want to be someone who

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Speaker 3: continues to keep their stories alive while also adding to

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Speaker 3: the record in this particular time is powerful and I

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Speaker 3: feel that within me when I'm writing. I feel that

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Speaker 3: within me when I have an idea that is put

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Speaker 3: on my heart and I believe in God. I believe

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Speaker 3: that that's why I get these ideas because I'm supposed

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Speaker 3: to do something about it. I'm supposed to get something

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Speaker 3: out into the world. And so when you feel like

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Speaker 3: there's this connection to something so much larger, and there's

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Speaker 3: also this relationship that I'm going to have with my descendants,

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Speaker 3: you know that I will never meet. I feel the

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Speaker 3: responsibility that I believe these writers who have continued to

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Speaker 3: inspire Eslang beyond their life on this earth probably also

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Speaker 3: felt within them that responsibility and that honor.

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Speaker 4: I know this is hitting somebody listening right now exactly

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Speaker 4: where it needed to be for you to put your

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Speaker 4: work out. I just want to say that there, because

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Speaker 4: that is incredibly powerful, and especially thinking of it as

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Speaker 4: being on a record, like really on record for our time, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, and seeing farther down the road to those

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Speaker 4: descendants like I'm so excited about being an ancestor, and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, please invoke my name children in the future.

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Speaker 3: Beautiful. I think about it all the time because my

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Speaker 3: doula with my third baby, and you know, my husband

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Speaker 3: and I have decided this is our last baby. He's

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Speaker 3: twenty months old now. But when he was born, and

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Speaker 3: at first, I will say, my midwife not believe me.

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Speaker 3: I kept saying, this is gonna be my last time,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, sher, sure, sure. And then while I

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Speaker 3: was going through my labor, I was crying so many

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Speaker 3: tears of joy, and they were like, what's going on on.

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Speaker 3: I like, tell us what you're thinking, and I said, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm just so grateful for these three beautiful babies, and

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Speaker 3: they go, Okay, this has last time written all over it.

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Speaker 3: But when he was born, and I've done this wrapping

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Speaker 3: ceremony that my dulas have done for me with three,

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Speaker 3: with each of my three kids, in the final wrapping

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Speaker 3: ceremony where they are it's called like tying of the bones,

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Speaker 3: and you're thanking your body for everything you've done to

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Speaker 3: bring this baby into the world. My dula this time

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Speaker 3: said something that she hadn't said the other two times,

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Speaker 3: which was, we're thanking your body for what it's done

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Speaker 3: for generations of your family. And I thought, you don't

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Speaker 3: even think about that, you know, when you're birthing a child,

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Speaker 3: But wow, for generations of my family. And that's a powerful,

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Speaker 3: beautiful thing. And so I'm constantly thinking about that now.

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Speaker 3: Ever since that moment, everything I do is for generations

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Speaker 3: to come, and we all are doing that.

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Speaker 4: M that is so beautiful, so beautiful, deeply wow. So

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Speaker 4: you know, within this book you describe American patriarchy as

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Speaker 4: a system that is so deeply ingrained that it has

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Speaker 4: become almost invisible. What was the moment in your own

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Speaker 4: life when you can remember that you first really saw.

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Speaker 2: It for what it was.

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Speaker 3: It's so interesting because it's hard for me to pinpoint

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Speaker 3: the one moment, and largely because of my mom. I

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Speaker 3: was raised by a feminist mother who called out patriarchy everywhere,

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Speaker 3: and she was a lawyer. She advocated for women's rights

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Speaker 3: in the US as well as abroad, and so we

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Speaker 3: traveled my siblings and I from country to country that

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Speaker 3: you listed so beautifully through her work, and so she

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Speaker 3: would always tell us in each of the places that

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Speaker 3: we lived, Notice how women are being treated. Notice how

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Speaker 3: mothers in particular are being treated. Because the way in

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Speaker 3: which mothers and women are being treated is going to

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Speaker 3: show us how that nation will do. She really felt

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Speaker 3: like everything came back to the treatment of mothers in particular,

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Speaker 3: that if mothers were being supported, if mothers were being seen,

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Speaker 3: if mothers were being respected, that that community would do well.

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Speaker 3: There would be more happiness, there would be more health, etc.

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Speaker 3: And she also believed that if the role was not

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Speaker 3: being treated with respect, with honor, with support, that we

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Speaker 3: would also see cycles of inequity perpetuated. And so it's

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Speaker 3: hard for me to say, oh, that's the moment that

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Speaker 3: I was like, patriarchy is affecting me because I was

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Speaker 3: born into this conversation of patriarchy will affect you, and

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Speaker 3: you will notice it and you will challenge it at

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Speaker 3: every point. And so in this book, I wanted to

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Speaker 3: make it as obvious to everybody as it is to me,

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Speaker 3: because I walk through the world noticing it everywhere. I

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Speaker 3: see how it's connected to everything we're doing. But then

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Speaker 3: you have everybody constantly saying how did this happen? How

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Speaker 3: did we end up here, and I realized one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons so many people are confused and aren't able

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Speaker 3: to notice it is by design, the system has hidden

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Speaker 3: itself so that we start to think that the inequities

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Speaker 3: that we're facing and that we're experiencing on a day

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Speaker 3: to day basis are simply in our minds, or especially

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Speaker 3: for women, we're told you're just feeling that what's going

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Speaker 3: on with your feelings today? When it's gas lighting. One

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Speaker 3: of my friends says, it's gaslighting on a national level

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Speaker 3: in fact. And so one of the reasons I wanted

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Speaker 3: to write this book is I wanted us to have

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Speaker 3: a map of what patriarchy is in our nation, how

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Speaker 3: it shows up at every point of our lives, so

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Speaker 3: that we stop being surprised by it, so that we

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Speaker 3: stop thinking that we're imagining something when we're accurately identifying

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Speaker 3: an issue of inequity in our lives, and so that

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Speaker 3: we can stop blaming each other for it, because patriarchy,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, hasn't been defined fully before now. It mean,

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Speaker 3: my book does do that, but we've missed a lot

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Speaker 3: of the core tenets of patriarchy that have made it

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Speaker 3: a very divisive topic that have made it something that

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Speaker 3: especially men feel very defensive about if they hear the

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Speaker 3: word and they don't think about how it's hurting them.

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Speaker 3: They don't think about how it's a system that was

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Speaker 3: built by our founding fathers unapologetically so that they said

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Speaker 3: we are building a republic of men, but that in

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Speaker 3: this definition of man they were leaving out so many

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Speaker 3: different people that they were erasing indigenous belief systems. There's

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Speaker 3: so much that we can get into there, and I

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Speaker 3: don't know if we're there in the conversation yet, but

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Speaker 3: to frame what I'm talking about in terms of what

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Speaker 3: is American patriarchy, I've always seen it because my mom

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Speaker 3: made it really obvious to me. And so in a way,

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Speaker 3: I'm carrying forward the lessons she gave me. I'm putting

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Speaker 3: those in this book. I mean, you do such a

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Speaker 3: you do just such a potent, potent job of that

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Speaker 3: in your book. And I think part of what I

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Speaker 3: really appreciated about it is it's helping people understand how

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Speaker 3: to think about this, you know, And I think that's

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Speaker 3: what we lack a lot, especially with big concepts like

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Speaker 3: this that are absolutely invisible. Yeah, and ancient rights so

384
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 3: incredibly nuanced and complex and layered over time that it's

385
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Speaker 3: hard sometimes you get to the meat of understanding how

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Speaker 3: you can do anything about.

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Speaker 4: It, or how to participate with all the things that

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Speaker 4: are moving around exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's also because we then we

390
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Speaker 3: overcomplicate it sometimes too, because when we can define it

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Speaker 3: very simply, and this is if we just go to

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Speaker 3: the founding Fathers and we think of who these men

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Speaker 3: were and what they were experiencing and what they wanted

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Speaker 3: in life. So they were these scrappy men, right like

395
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Speaker 3: we've all watched Hamilton, We've all seen they were just

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Speaker 3: kind of, you know, kind of all from these different directions,

397
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Speaker 3: just trying to figure out their own paths. But they

398
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Speaker 3: win the Revolutionary War. They're the underdogs. So when they

399
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Speaker 3: win the Revolutionary War, they're very worried that this revolutionary

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Speaker 3: spirit is spreading across the country, that there's going to

401
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Speaker 3: be these mini revolutions everywhere perhaps, and that maybe they're

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Speaker 3: going to lose the thing that they had fought to

403
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Speaker 3: gain in their nation, which was power control. And so

404
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Speaker 3: when they're sitting and thinking of designing a country and

405
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Speaker 3: how it's going to operate. They're thinking about what's going

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Speaker 3: to be best for them, how can they protect what

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Speaker 3: they want, And they write the depth the Constitution with

408
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Speaker 3: that in mind. So it's actually very simple. That part

409
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Speaker 3: is pretty simple. And they say, you know what, we're

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Speaker 3: going to define who gets to be man in the

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Speaker 3: United States and in the Constitution, although it says liberty

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Speaker 3: and justice for all, we know that if you were

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Speaker 3: to ask the founding fathers, do you think an enslaved

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Speaker 3: person is a man, they would have said no, they

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Speaker 3: would have said, that's not a human being. I treat

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Speaker 3: them as property.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So if they're saying in the Constitution that men can

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Speaker 3: own land, that men can vote, that men can represent themselves,

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Speaker 3: that they are the ones who carry stuff, and they

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Speaker 3: completely leave women out of the Constitution. They're designing a

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Speaker 3: republic of men. And they say in letters to their

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Speaker 3: wives and to their daughters, they define women as you

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Speaker 3: are to be controlled, you are not to participate politically,

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Speaker 3: you are fragile, and that the only way that you

426
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Speaker 3: can do something in this world is to reproduce our power,

427
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: the men's power. But they set up strategically then this

428
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Speaker 3: binary and in order to set up the binary. They

429
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 3: need to erase anything else that suggests otherwise, and this

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Speaker 3: is again intentional. They erase indigenous belief systems that recognize

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Speaker 3: people beyond a gender binary. And not only do they

432
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Speaker 3: set up a binary, they then also rely on racism

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Speaker 3: to further solidify that binary. So, as I mentioned, they

434
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 3: were not considering enslaved men in this definition, they were

435
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: not considering poor white men in this definition. They were

436
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: not considering immigrant men in these definitions. They were also

437
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: when they're talking about women, if we look particularly particularly

438
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 3: at how black women are treated in American history, they're

439
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: not saying that black women deserve to be protected. They're

440
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 3: not saying that black women can somehow reproduce power. They're

441
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: actually telling black women, no matter how you come to

442
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 3: have a child, that child's always going to carry your status.

443
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: In law. It stated in American history that black women,

444
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: no matter how they came to have children, when they

445
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: were enslaved, those children would also be slaves. So it

446
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 3: goes directly in opposition to how they're defining man and

447
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: woman by the Constitution and in their letters and in

448
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 3: their opinions. So if we just understand that they only

449
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: recognized two groups of people, in the United States, and

450
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: then they told everybody else, you can assimilate and try

451
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 3: your best to assimilate to these two recognized groups, and

452
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: then maybe you'll understand what it is to be a

453
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 3: human being in our nation. They tell us all to

454
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 3: fight for our right to be gendered in the United States,

455
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: and that is the basis of our nation. And so

456
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 3: if that wasn't hidden, if that wasn't a mistake, but

457
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: we've never spoken about it in that way before, and

458
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 3: it takes until twenty twenty five for me to say, hey,

459
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 3: we should probably go back and look at that vision

460
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 3: in that system and how they saw the original social

461
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: order that they wanted to protect, and how that plays

462
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: a role in the Constitution. It plays a role in

463
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: every law that comes out of the Constitution. It plays

464
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: a role in the Supreme Court and the setup of

465
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court. It plays a role in every single system,

466
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 3: whether that's the medical system or legal system or whatever

467
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: you want to talk the educational system of our nation.

468
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: Then of course we are still currently living in it

469
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 3: because it hasn't been addressed, and we just started to

470
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: believe because that's what we were told, that it was

471
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,239
Speaker 3: the only option available to us. So you then have

472
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: people here in twenty twenty five who feel so strongly

473
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: about protecting this social order because they think that that's

474
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 3: how they get to be treated as human beings too,

475
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: that I just have to do better at performing one

476
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: of those two roles, that I have to dominate more

477
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: or I have to be more silent if I'm supposed

478
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 3: to play the woman's role. And so we're protecting something

479
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: with all our might, we become people who are anti

480
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: trans people, and people don't even know why, they don't

481
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: even know why they carry such hatred towards people who

482
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: show us just by being who they are, that there

483
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: was always something else available to us. That the system

484
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: that we're living in was manufactured. It was fabricated, it

485
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 3: was built. You can go back and see when it

486
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 3: was built. It was not the natural order, it was

487
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: not divine, it never was. It's actually incredibly vulnerable. It's

488
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: incredibly fragile because it's so rigid, and the more rigid

489
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 3: something is, the more breakable it is. So when you

490
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 3: can look at it from that perspective, you then just

491
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: feel like, oh, it's actually quite simple and we can

492
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 3: do something about it.

493
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: I mean, my God, like, what office are you going

494
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 4: to run for? Like, this is what is missing, right,

495
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: because so much to me of the divide in the country,

496
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 4: it's really just in in ways that we understand and

497
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 4: don't understand. YEA, the world and how it works ourselves

498
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 4: and how we work this country and how it works.

499
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, why we have certain fears, why we have certain fires,

500
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 3: Like why do I feel so stressed about I mean,

501
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: I'm not this person, but there's a lot of people

502
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: in our nation who are so concerned about trans people

503
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: and they don't even know why. But if they've been

504
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: told their whole lives, in order to be human and

505
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: to be recognized in your nation, you need to try

506
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: to fit one of these two roles, then it makes

507
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: a little more sense how there's even parents who could

508
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: disown their own children because they're not lining up with

509
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: these two supposed roles because they're so fearful that they're

510
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 3: not going to be recognized as human beings. But they

511
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: don't even realize that they've been taught this, that they've

512
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: been taught this need to protect something that doesn't serve them,

513
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: that doesn't protect them, but they feel so deeply within them,

514
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: I'm fearful because I've purposely been kept from knowing other

515
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: ways of living, other ways of organizing people, other ways

516
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: of participating in society together.

517
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: And I think, yeah, that last piece that is the

518
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 4: biggest thing in every category right like it is it

519
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 4: is the unknown, the thing that you just don't have

520
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 4: research about personally or lived experience with, and no desire

521
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: to gain or amaciny and so it's just no wrong

522
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: you know, war inducing.

523
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the.

524
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 4: Thing that I think is going to be so interesting

525
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 4: because we really are this evolutionarily, this bridge generation right

526
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: now as a species, right like the we're in the

527
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 4: grade in between of what the next evolved iteration of

528
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 4: human being is. And I mean as a species, not

529
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 4: as like you know, just what are the trends or

530
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 4: what are we into? But like, and it's fascinating because

531
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 4: our brains are being rewired in so many ways to

532
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: whatever we are going to become. And I just think

533
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: it's fascinating to think about, you know, in a hundred years,

534
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 4: how will historians look back at this moment because we

535
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 4: have something that no one else has ever had in history,

536
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 4: which is like we have artifacts of the nuance of

537
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 4: what we're thinking. I've always wondered, like, what are these

538
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 4: big populations of people in really hard times? What did

539
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 4: they think about all this? And you might find the

540
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: writings of a few kinds of a people, but you

541
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: can't fully understand or appreciate, like what was the zeitgeist

542
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 4: of that time? And how often did that refresh itself?

543
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: Or you know?

544
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 4: And I think now we are truly having more fundamental

545
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 4: dignity conversations than we have ever had in human history

546
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 4: for such a broader group of people. And so how

547
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: will we be able to kind of stay and look

548
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: back at this later if there's humans left? Who knows

549
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: it might be so yeah, who knows, it might be

550
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 4: the machines, you know. But yeah, it's just it's it's

551
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: absolutely fascinating because we are in the crevices of every

552
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 4: conversation that we're having right.

553
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 3: Now, and I find that to be really inspiring. I

554
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: think a lot of folks feel, Yes, where we talked

555
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 3: about there's regression, it feels like we're moving backwards. It

556
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 3: feels like there hasn't been any progress. If we've re

557
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: elected this president, how could we say that we're progressing?

558
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: And in my opinion, it actually shows that vulnerability of

559
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: this system yet again, because it shows me that there

560
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 3: is fear of all of the progress that we've made.

561
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 3: And I often speak about how the US is as

562
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: a nation like from the founding fathers. Obviously it was

563
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: a nation and a land long before these men were here.

564
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 3: But when we think about that foundation, it's a pretty

565
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 3: young country. And babies, it's a baby country. Yeah, And

566
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: when so I this is just a funny story. When

567
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: I went to do my graduate work at the University

568
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 3: of Cambridge. The very first day, they gave me this

569
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 3: you know, pullover and it says the university was founded

570
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: in twelve oh nine, like twelve nine, and I read

571
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 3: it and I thought, I mean, like, I, oh, yeah,

572
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 3: I guess that makes sense. And I just had this

573
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 3: moment where I thought, whoa, this university is so much

574
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: older than my entire nation. And then I was walking

575
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 3: and I was in this discussion where people were asking

576
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: should we be decolonizing Cambridge? This was a question, should

577
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: we decolonize Cambridge? And then I thought, well, that's a

578
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 3: crazy question. Should you You seem a little behind on

579
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 3: these conversations of race and equity, But this is a

580
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: question that in the US it wouldn't be should we

581
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: It would be like, what are we supposed to like,

582
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: let's do this right now. And that's when I realized

583
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: that this is the story of the United States. We

584
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 3: are very young as a nation, but we have experienced

585
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 3: incredibly rapid change. Not rapid enough. There's a lot more

586
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: for us to do. But the reason that there has

587
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: been progress that inspires communities across the world has been

588
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: because of the groups of people in the United States

589
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: who were not originally recognized as human beings in that

590
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: social order I was talking about, who have said, this

591
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: doesn't work for us, this doesn't make any sense, particularly

592
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: black women who by law again were told they were

593
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: not human, their children were not human beings. And instead

594
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: of them saying, oh, it's the law, I guess I

595
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 3: just have to believe the law it was that's obviously

596
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: made up. That's not going to work for me. I

597
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: know I'm a human being. My children are the most

598
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 3: precious human beings. So what I need to do is

599
00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 3: fight for this nation to change, for these laws to change.

600
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: I need to make up something new. And that is

601
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: how we have moved forward. That's how we have progressed.

602
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 3: And so of course there's fear from those who want

603
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: to protect the original social order. There's been incredible strategy

604
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: on their end to try to get us back, because

605
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 3: that's a response to progress, that's a response to change.

606
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: And so this can't be the time where we say

607
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: we've never been here before. This is the scariest we've

608
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: ever seen. This, doesn't you know, what are we going

609
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 3: to do? This is the time to study those who

610
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: have been through this, who told us, you cannot fall

611
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: for this, you cannot accept this. You must continue to

612
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: create something new and keep that fight going now with

613
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 3: new tools that are available to us. And so I

614
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 3: see it as we got to double down on this knowledge,

615
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 3: on this wisdom. And the final thing I'll say about

616
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 3: that is the gift that I was given. There are

617
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: so many gifts I was given in writing the Three

618
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: Mothers and in doing the research to put together these stories.

619
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 3: Again of these incredible women is that they lived through

620
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: the nineteen hundreds, they saw two world wars, they saw

621
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: the Great Depression, They birth their children in the nineteen twenties,

622
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: They teach their children how to create the civil rights movement.

623
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: I can't sit here and say that this is the

624
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 3: worst that it's ever been that's a disrespect to the

625
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 3: work that they did.

626
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: That is so.

627
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 3: But I can say, from learning from their lives, I

628
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 3: know what I must do. I won't sit here and

629
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: say we're just gonna sit down silently. No, we're going

630
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: to do our part, and we all have maybe different

631
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: parts to play, but we're on this larger team who

632
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: is not going to pretend that we've lost all.

633
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 4: Hope deeply well. One of the driving forces behind Erased

634
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: is your desire to reclaim what has been hidden or contorted.

635
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: What is one.

636
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 4: Story or figure that deeply moved you while you were

637
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 4: researching for this book, maybe someone you believe deserves to

638
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 4: be more widely known.

639
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: This book is filled with so many of these stories

640
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: that it's sometimes hard for me to choose the one,

641
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: but because I want to show throughout the book that

642
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: no matter how hard these circumstances have been throughout American history,

643
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: no matter how hard American patriarchy has worked at hiding itself,

644
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: at erasing the stories that show us that there's always

645
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 3: something else that show us that again it's all made up,

646
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: and that we can always choose to lift differently. That

647
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 3: these individuals saw beyond always the one that I'm thinking

648
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: of right now is Ellen Craft and her husband William Craft.

649
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: The way in which they are this couple. They're living

650
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: in times of slavery, and they are going to fight

651
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: for their freedom. They are going to find a way

652
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 3: to live freely because one of their driving motivations is

653
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: that they want to start a family without the fear

654
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: of being divided from each other, without the fear that

655
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 3: their children will just be removed from them. And so

656
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: Ellen has lighter skin, and they decide, okay, if Ellen

657
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: can cut off her hair, put on a pair of

658
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 3: pants and a jacket, she can pass not only as

659
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: a white person, but as a white man.

660
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 2: Wow.

661
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: And so she and her husband board a train and

662
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 3: they feign an injury for her because she would typically

663
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: have to sign documents in order to travel outside of

664
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: her state with her person who is looking like her slave,

665
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: who is actually her husband, But because they don't know

666
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,959
Speaker 3: how to read or write, she has to pretend she's

667
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 3: injured and she has an arm injury, and that they're

668
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: traveling north for her treatments. And so I think her

669
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: story is powerful for so many reasons. One, there's incredible

670
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: courage that it takes for the two of them to say,

671
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 3: let's do this, let's try this path, and because it

672
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: makes it so obvious how arbitrary categories of race and

673
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: gender are, how performative they are, how it's so unsophisticated

674
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: to organize people in this way. Because it was a

675
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: masterful performance that she gave. And it's because she was

676
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: so well studied in the oppressor, in what it would

677
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: take to sound like them, to move like them, to

678
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 3: convince everyone else around her, because for her own survival,

679
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: she had been a student of this her whole life,

680
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: and she transfers that skill, this study that she's been

681
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: forced to undertake. Right to know what they need, to

682
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: know how they move, to know what they eat, to

683
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 3: know how they talk. She takes that and uses it

684
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 3: as her path and her skill to achieve freedom for herself,

685
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: for her husband. They go on to have a big family,

686
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 3: she has to raise her children, and so it just

687
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 3: symbolizes so many different things that, yeah, more of us

688
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: should know Ellen Craft's name, Ellen and William Kraft, excuse me,

689
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 3: Ellen and William Craft's names, and we should be so

690
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 3: aware of what their story symbolizes about. Again, the fragility

691
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 3: of what American patriarchy is telling us is the only

692
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 3: way to define humanity. It's fragile. There's so many missing

693
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 3: pieces to that story. It doesn't actually fully make any sense.

694
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: And that's why those who protect it have tried so

695
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: hard to, for instance, ban books that show us a

696
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: different history and a different record that humanizes other people

697
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: outside of this original social order. That just signals to

698
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: us again, we can choose to do this differently. So

699
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 3: I love that story so much.

700
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, the storytelling is just too good, thank you. Yeah,

701
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: you know, and speaking of because it is the way

702
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 4: you blend your worlds together, I think is just really

703
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: powerful and beautiful. What do you think is so important

704
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 4: about especially storytelling in this time, for our healing, you know,

705
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 4: for our growth as a people, as a country, as

706
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 4: a species.

707
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, storytelling is everything. One of the lessons that I've

708
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 3: carried throughout my entire life, especially because I lived in

709
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 3: so many different places, is that stories rule everything, That

710
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: whole nations are existing simply off of stories that they tell,

711
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: and that the dominant stories often erase a lot of people.

712
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: And you, as a storyteller, all of us have the

713
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 3: capacity to be storytellers. We have to challenge those dominant

714
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 3: stories we have to correct records. We have to see

715
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 3: that power within ourselves to say, actually, let's think about

716
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 3: this differently. Actually, let me recover the story of somebody

717
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 3: whose life stands in opposition to what you're telling me.

718
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: Is the only truth about the world. For me to

719
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: write about the mothers of MLK Jor Malcolm X James Baldwin,

720
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: I'm saying the self made man does not exist. I'm

721
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: saying not only did these women live and were they

722
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 3: human beings, but that their sons were human beings also.

723
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 3: And we don't understand these sons, and we can't even

724
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 3: fully revere them unless we know that they were following

725
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: in the footsteps of their mothers. And so when you

726
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: hear that, and you feel the shift in your brain

727
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: to know, wait, m l K. Junior's mother participated in

728
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 3: marches and in boycotts, and her parents were the leaders

729
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: of ebenez Or Baptist Church, and in fact, everything he

730
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: inherited was from his maternal lineage, and I didn't know that.

731
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 3: You then shift your mind immediately just with that small

732
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 3: part of the story. And that's what storytellers have the

733
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 3: power to do. We have the power to also bring

734
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 3: people together and I don't think that all of us

735
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: have to have that mission actually, to be honest, as

736
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: much as I'm somebody who's a bridge builder and I

737
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 3: want as many people as possible to come to my

738
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 3: work and feel like they can talk about things that

739
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 3: maybe they previously felt excluded from. I also really value

740
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 3: and I'm very grateful for the voices that say f

741
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 3: that I'm not here to educate all of you. I'm

742
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: here to disrupt, I'm here to wake people up. I'm

743
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 3: here to tell you. I don't have to teach you

744
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: these things. Do your own work, do your own study,

745
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 3: because I think several different energies are needed for change

746
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 3: to be made. And so while I'm somebody who really

747
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 3: feels one of the roles I'm supposed to play is

748
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 3: to talk to a lot of different people, and a

749
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 3: lot of folks say this that you know, it's not

750
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 3: that I'm not saying or challenging white supremacy. It's not

751
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 3: that I'm not calling out these horrific systems. But sometimes

752
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 3: I say it in a way that suddenly someone thinks, oh,

753
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 3: you're not targeting me. I can hear you, I can

754
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: somehow listen to something you're saying that just feels like

755
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 3: a role I'm supposed to play.

756
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: I want to dive into another thing that you talk

757
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 4: about in the book that I think is just it's

758
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 4: really important.

759
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: To be said aloud.

760
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 4: So in a race, do you powerfully write about how

761
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 4: white women have often been included in patriarchal systems at

762
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 4: the expense of women of color. How do you think

763
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 4: we can have more honest conversations about solidarity and complicity

764
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 4: within our feminist movements.

765
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: I think if we go back to this social order

766
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: that our founding fathers were setting up, and how they

767
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 3: in that are recognizing the white women around them. Right,

768
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: they ignore them in the constitution. They don't write them

769
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 3: into the constitution, but they do say something about you

770
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 3: deserve to be protected. Right. It's also another way of

771
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 3: them saying you deserve to be controlled, but they say,

772
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 3: you know, you reproduce our power.

773
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: Right.

774
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: So there are some of these white women who at

775
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: least feel seen in that, at least feel protect in that,

776
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: and who have an awareness that not everybody and not

777
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: all women are at least being given that, you know,

778
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 3: mine or access, and so sometimes they then have a

779
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 3: hard time seeing how the system also isn't serving them,

780
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: but they want to protect it, right, they want to

781
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 3: play some role in it. And so there's a lot

782
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: of scholars who have often spoken about white women as

783
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 3: the co arc texts of this system, even though you

784
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: can see in the way that they're ignored in the

785
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 3: Constitution and the way their husbands speak about them, even

786
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: in letters that they write to them. I talk about

787
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: a letter that Abigail Adams receives from her husband where

788
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: she's saying, do better by us than the monarchy did.

789
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,240
Speaker 3: And it's this famous quote where she says, remember the ladies,

790
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 3: and he says, and he mocks her. He says, I

791
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: know better than to follow your feminine ways, and he

792
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 3: thinks it's kind of funny. And they actually double down

793
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: even more on patriarchy than the monarchy did. And so

794
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,800
Speaker 3: there's something that a lot of white women today don't

795
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 3: fully realize that, whether it's subconsciously, they're protecting something because

796
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: they at least have some role to play there. And

797
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: so in order for us to move forward, So in

798
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 3: order for us to move forward, we have to one

799
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 3: be able to say, I, if I'm a white woman,

800
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: am experiencing oppression in this patriarchal system? Right, they don't

801
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 3: have a hard time saying this. A lot of them

802
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: do realize, like this isn't serving me, I don't want

803
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 3: to be in this domestic role or whatever. But then

804
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: they have a hard time saying, but I have still

805
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 3: been given something in this that women of color were

806
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: excluded from. So all of those layers have to exist.

807
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: We need like one group of white women who make

808
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 3: maybe feel like they want to protect patriarchy because they

809
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 3: think there's something in it. Of childwives would be a

810
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 3: perfect example, right, they're like this works for me. I

811
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 3: like this.

812
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

813
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 3: We need them to sort of realize like, actually, it's

814
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: not really working for you to put all of us

815
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 3: in this domestic space. Like you might want to have

816
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,839
Speaker 3: that for yourself, and that is fine, But to then

817
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: tell young women this is what you need to aspire to,

818
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 3: that's dangerous. Now we've gotten into a point of you're

819
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: just trying to replicate something across the nation that isn't

820
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: working for any of us. So that's one group of women.

821
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: Then there's a group of white women who are like,

822
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 3: I'm being oppressed. Why are these women of color upset

823
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: with me? I'm also being oppressed. I know what it's

824
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: like to be oppressed. Yes, you have also been given

825
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: a different lot than the men in your life. However,

826
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 3: you still have been given access to something that women

827
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 3: of color have not. So if we can just simply

828
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 3: say we have all been treated differently by these systems,

829
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 3: but that we actually do need to come together without

830
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 3: erasing each other's differences in order to address that system,

831
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 3: then that's the shift that we need. And the last

832
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: thing I'll say there is that my mom was a

833
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 3: white woman and she was raising black children with her

834
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 3: black husband, and I always talk about her is the

835
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 3: perfect example of an ally because I didn't even appreciate

836
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 3: it that much growing up, how intentional she was about

837
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: telling me and then showing me and her actions that

838
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 3: she wasn't going to tell me that she knew what

839
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 3: it was to be a black girl. That would have

840
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 3: been wild if my white mom had been like, I

841
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 3: know what it's like. I am a feminist, and I

842
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: know what it's like to be a black girl in

843
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 3: the United States or around the world. Even instead, she said,

844
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: I don't know what that's like, but I will walk

845
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 3: beside you always, and I will do my part to learn,

846
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 3: and I will do my part to make this world

847
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 3: worthy of you. That's allyship, that's what we're looking for.

848
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 3: That's the energy that we need. We're not going to

849
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 3: tell each other. We know what it's like to be

850
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 3: in each other's shoes, but we will walk together. We

851
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 3: will do our part to learn, and we will do

852
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 3: our part to make this world worthy of us and

853
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 3: worthy of our children.

854
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 4: That is that's so powerful to hear, and what a

855
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 4: special way to be raised, you know, in so many ways,

856
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,479
Speaker 4: like just having the exposure and the lens and being

857
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,480
Speaker 4: able to bear witness, you know, in so many different

858
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 4: ways for so many different women. I loved the example

859
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 4: you brought up of tradwives. I have so many thoughts

860
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 4: on that. Yeah, and even that is so interesting because

861
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 4: I think so many of the premiere trad wives there

862
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 4: is not like it looks great.

863
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 2: I want to make sourdough.

864
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 4: Too, Like I mean, like I have nothing against that

865
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 4: at all as a life choice or a lifestyle, not

866
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 4: at all. However, the way that it's packaged for us,

867
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 4: it's you know, we're missing also the propaganda in that,

868
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 4: and so many of the women that are the top

869
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 4: you know, tradwive influencers, like you know, they have very

870
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 4: very rich husbands. Yeah, you know, so it's kind of like, yeah,

871
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 4: it's your dream for the simpler days because like you

872
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 4: also don't have to live on the land to survive

873
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 4: it all or you know, exactly, Yeah, so many other

874
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 4: needs met in different ways.

875
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. And it's interesting because on one hand, they

876
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 3: are bringing attention to how difficult this economy is for

877
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 3: so many families. Right there are a lot of people

878
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 3: who would like to have one partner in a relationship

879
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 3: work while the other can yet totally, but we don't

880
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 3: have access to that, right. That's not really an opportunity

881
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 3: that's available to most families. We all have to work

882
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 3: right now, and that's also really difficult, that is, you know.

883
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of an interesting thing. They're not

884
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 3: highlighting it on purpose, but it's something that comes up

885
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 3: for me when I see them. And then I was

886
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 3: recently in a conversation with my good friend Liz Plank,

887
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 3: and she was talking about how and it's obvious now,

888
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: but I just wasn't even really thinking about it. Childwives

889
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: are making those influencers are making so much money, like

890
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 3: they're working right while telling you, I don't want to work,

891
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 3: but they most likely there was some article that came

892
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 3: out recently. They're most likely surrounded by a bunch of

893
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 3: people who are filming them and working for them, and

894
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: it's this whole enterprise where they're then tricking everybody around

895
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 3: them by saying, oh, you know, look at this life

896
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 3: that I get to live, and then saying things like

897
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 3: what propaganda tells you that I can't be here like

898
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 3: holding my baby, like making my food, which most likely

899
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 3: is like that's their day on their job, that's what

900
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 3: they're doing.

901
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's such a good point and also too, you know,

902
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 4: we're not talking enough about how much pain and injury

903
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 4: women have taken on over the years, how many manifestations

904
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 4: of autoimmune disease or other chronic disorders within the body

905
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 4: from having to overwork in that capacity day in and

906
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 4: day out for the ones that really do it in

907
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 4: a survival mode and not kind of in the most esthetic,

908
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 4: radiose way. But how many generations of women in our

909
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 4: households suffered deeply, bones, hurt horribly throughout the day, had

910
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 4: all this you know, pain mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually that

911
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 4: they couldn't speak to but it was felt right it

912
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 4: was felt by them, and it was felt psychologically and

913
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 4: emotionally by the children that they raise.

914
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 3: I agree with that, and this is it brings us

915
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 3: then to there again child wives not they're not meaning to,

916
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: but there is some important conversation that they're kind of

917
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 3: shedding some light on. Is there are a lot of

918
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 3: other nations where when a child is born, we do

919
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 3: give families time to be together at home, and we

920
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 3: honor that, and we give them time before they go

921
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: back to work. We protect that leave because families should

922
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 3: bond with each other. Yeah, and so sometimes when we're

923
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 3: in all these discussions that feel very black and white

924
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 3: and oh, these childwise you just want to spend you know,

925
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 3: like what are they trying to you know, they're trying

926
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 3: to set us back and all of this, I mean,

927
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: I think, you know, instead we could say there's a

928
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 3: spectrum of needs, and in fact, there actually should be

929
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 3: space where women can and parents can not just women

930
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 3: be with their babies and have a period of time

931
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 3: that you know, if I'm thinking like a country like Sweden,

932
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: you have parents who can take leave for one maybe

933
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 3: two years. That's wonderful, that's beautiful. Oh that's great. And

934
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 3: then maybe you know. And I'm not saying that parental

935
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: leave is rest because like the only lead that it's

936
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 3: not even guaranteed in the US. But for some of

937
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 3: us who had like six months paid leave, and we

938
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: all think, wow, you care have a friend who had

939
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 3: six months, Wow, it's amazing. Those six months are work

940
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 3: work work, Hey, you're adjusting, Yes it's bonding, Yes it's magical,

941
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 3: but you are recovering. Like that is not where you

942
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 3: can enter into the zone of now, let's learn to

943
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 3: like make bread. No, but if it's two years, perhaps

944
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,479
Speaker 3: you can have that time. So I think there's something

945
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 3: that we can kind of use the traad wives for

946
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 3: and say we do want that time.

947
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 4: I do want it. I mean honestly, like I do

948
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 4: want to bake.

949
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 2: I want to do that.

950
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 4: I have this space to, yeah, you know, really deeply

951
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 4: care for your family and be present for them in

952
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 4: that beautiful way. But as you share it, it's it's

953
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 4: a spectrum. And I think that was just such a

954
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 4: brilliant framing this spectrum of needs that we really all have.

955
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 4: And it's so different, you know for each of our households.

956
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 4: What do you have hope about right now?

957
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so hopeful. I'm a really optimistic person. Honestly,

958
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 3: A lot of people ask, because I dive deep into

959
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 3: these hard topics, how do I still seem so positive,

960
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 3: light and happy? And I think it's precisely because I

961
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 3: study these topics that I see them very clearly. Yeah,

962
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 3: you know, I'm always studying other black femen as scholars

963
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: and this tradition that I feel so honored to be

964
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 3: a part of. But you know, Audrey Lord and Tony

965
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: Morrison and Belle Hooks, and when you read their writing,

966
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 3: there's just such clarity. There's such like I'm unafraid and

967
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 3: maybe some I mean Audrey Lord does talk about how

968
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 3: fear can be translated into action, so it's taking that

969
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 3: fear and doing something with it. But the words are

970
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 3: just poetically. You know, these are the things that I

971
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 3: aspire to. And I say all of that because I

972
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 3: think it's the way they were able to vocalize these

973
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 3: things and write these things with such clarity is because

974
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 3: they studied these things so deeply that they sought without

975
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 3: all of the mirage, without all of the things that

976
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 3: are meant to keep us confused. When you see it

977
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 3: in this crystal clear way, you then realize you can

978
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 3: change it, you can do something about it. We can

979
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 3: create the new, we can inspire other people to do

980
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: the same. So that makes me really hopeful. I am

981
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 3: always offering the alternative, what else can we do? Because

982
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 3: when you're studying the problem, you inevitably study what the

983
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: problem is trying to control. And so this book, yes,

984
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 3: I'm talking about what's been erased, and then I'm telling

985
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 3: you how we get those things back. And every part

986
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 3: of the book, there's six parts of the book are

987
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 3: titled with the things we need to recover. We need

988
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: to recover our intuition. Yeah, we need to recover our courage.

989
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 3: We need to recover our interconnectedness to each other. American

990
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 3: patriarchy does not want us to believe that we're connected

991
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 3: to each other. In said, it wants us to believe

992
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 3: that we're on individual journeys and that the more people

993
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 3: I dominate, the more successful I am in life, and

994
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: that's my life calling. That doesn't make sense. But if

995
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 3: we remember everything I do will impact other people. Yeah,

996
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 3: so I'm gonna live a little differently. And so it's

997
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 3: those kinds of words that are that are the heart

998
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 3: of this book. And when you embrace those things. Your

999
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 3: whole life is different. I don't live with like the

1000
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 3: heaviness of American patriarchy. I actually live knowing it's incredibly

1001
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 3: light and we can all just lift it up and

1002
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 3: say we're not we're gonna throw this away, We're not

1003
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 3: gonna work with this anymore. Let's work with something new.

1004
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: I love that so much.

1005
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 4: I'm a fellow kind of relentless optimist, Yeah, but also

1006
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 4: clear observer. I know I'm bearing witness to a lot

1007
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 4: and there still is space, yeah to know. Yeah, there's

1008
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 4: hope and things to come and hope in the moment.

1009
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it makes me think too of So,

1010
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: my mom passed away about two and a half years ago,

1011
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 3: and I'm sorry, thank you. The grief experience it takes

1012
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 3: you to kind of a new level of humanity, to

1013
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 3: be honest, where you're seeing your whole life very differently

1014
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 3: because you're realizing, you know, you're asking, what do I

1015
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 3: believe actually happens when people pass? Right? And we might

1016
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: all have those conversations until you lose somebody so so

1017
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: close to you. At least for me, I wasn't really

1018
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 3: thinking about that question and how that question is the

1019
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 3: most important question we could really ask, because it dictates

1020
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 3: how we live on a day to day basis and

1021
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 3: what it is we're here to even do, And how

1022
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 3: am I supposed to spend each of my days? What

1023
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 3: feelings am I supposed to be filled with, no matter

1024
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 3: what challenges come in this life? And it's I don't

1025
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 3: believe we're supposed to spend every day stressed, fearful, heavy.

1026
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 3: I believe we're supposed to spend as many days as possible,

1027
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: almost in this childlike state. And again, I have the

1028
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 3: blessing of having three young babies, so I can just

1029
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 3: be in their little world, you know, for as long

1030
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 3: as I want to. We're supposed to be imaginative. We're

1031
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 3: supposed to be creative, We're supposed to be, you know,

1032
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 3: brave the way kids are where they're kind of just

1033
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 3: sometimes just throwing themselves around, and I think if we

1034
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 3: can kind of you know, there's a lot of cultures

1035
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 3: that believe this, but that children come into the world

1036
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 3: with that wisdom and that as they grow we're kind

1037
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 3: of forgetting the things that we were supposed to remember.

1038
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 3: But if you look at them and you study them

1039
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 3: that way, and you think, like, tell me tell me

1040
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 3: how I'm supposed to do this. It's it's peaceful. It's

1041
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: really peaceful. So I think there's a way to balance

1042
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 3: the awareness that comes with growing up and learning and

1043
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 3: not being ignorant to the issues that are happening. I'm

1044
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 3: definitely not saying that still be on the journey of

1045
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 3: learning and seeing what's happening around you, but how can

1046
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 3: you also still approach it with joy, creativity and the

1047
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 3: levity that I think our human experience is about. That

1048
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 3: also comes with the heaviness, like the grief that I

1049
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 3: talked about. So it's all part of it.

1050
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 4: It's all that dance, sacred dance between the grief and

1051
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 4: the joy. Last question for you was past I wish

1052
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 4: I could talk to you all day.

1053
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 2: I don't even know how far over we are.

1054
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, WHOA. But you know, I think for

1055
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 4: those that are listening to this show and really connecting,

1056
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 4: walking across those bridges, understanding kind of the bigger arcs

1057
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 4: that are happening right now, beginning to wake up to

1058
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 4: these systems, especially those who may have benefited from them.

1059
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 4: What is the most loving but urgent first step you

1060
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 4: would invite everyone to take.

1061
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 3: And I don't even mean for it to sound cliche,

1062
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 3: but I really do feel if people are willing to

1063
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 3: disarm themselves for a second, to put down any beliefs

1064
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 3: you think you have about patriarchy and whether I'm saying

1065
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 3: that you've somehow benefited from it and I haven't, and

1066
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 3: all this, and staid say, hey, honest saying none of

1067
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 3: us have been fitted from this. So let me see

1068
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 3: what she's talking about. I'm going to pick up this book.

1069
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to go on this journey and read it

1070
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 3: with a mindset of this isn't serving me either, because

1071
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 3: I guarantee you there will be a part in the book,

1072
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 3: if not the whole thing where you see yourself. You

1073
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 3: see how you've been thinking about yourself with American patriarchy,

1074
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 3: that it's impacting even the way you see yourself on

1075
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 3: a day to day basis. It's impacting the way you

1076
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 3: see your relationships with not only your friends, but your

1077
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 3: romantic partners, especially the way you see your relationship with

1078
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 3: your children. It's impacting the way you see your place

1079
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 3: in your neighborhood and your community, and it's impacting the

1080
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,440
Speaker 3: way that you vote. Currently, if you can go on

1081
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 3: this journey, with me. If that's the one step you

1082
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 3: take and you're just willing to learn about this differently

1083
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 3: and see how it's playing a role in all these

1084
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 3: stages of your life, I guarantee you will find some healing. Hmm.

1085
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 4: I'd love to share with everyone listening and let that

1086
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 4: serve as your soul work for the end of this episode.

1087
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 2: So as you really.

1088
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 4: Kind of integrate everything that you've heard, think about it,

1089
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 4: sharing this episode with friends and families and hopefully the

1090
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 4: women and men.

1091
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: In your life.

1092
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,919
Speaker 4: Let's really spread this conversation and consider some of those

1093
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 4: points ONNAS shared as you're journaling. Prompt you know, go

1094
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 4: back to this part of the episode, grab your journal,

1095
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 4: sit down, and really focus on seeing how and if

1096
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 4: and the way you answer each of those questions for

1097
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 4: yourself and your life. I think that is a profound

1098
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 4: and powerful first step on this book. Erased is so important.

1099
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 4: Thanks so important, and I'm just I'm so glad for

1100
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 4: your wisdom and your brilliance and your storytelling and bringing

1101
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 4: something so important and special and timely to the planet

1102
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 4: right now.

1103
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your work.

1104
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 3: Thank you, Debbie, thank you so much for having me.

1105
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 3: This is one of my favorite interviews by far, great

1106
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: amazing questions. I'm so excited to watch it.

1107
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 4: And then how can everyone connect with you and continue

1108
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 4: to be a part of your journey?

1109
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 3: Thank you. It's just my name on everything, so on

1110
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 3: a Malika tubs dot com you can reach out to

1111
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: me there or on Instagram. I love connecting people and

1112
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 3: just yeah, hearing your thoughts on everything we talked about,

1113
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 3: but also just what you're going through. I think that

1114
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 3: there's this awakening that can happen when you start to

1115
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 3: realize how you're being impacted by these things. So yeah,

1116
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 3: feel free to reach out and we'd love to connect

1117
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 3: some more.

1118
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 4: Oh I love that and everyone, if especially if you're

1119
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 4: listening on Apple, just scroll down into the show notes.

1120
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 2: We'll make it easy for you. Click the link and you'll.

1121
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 4: Be directed straight to her website and also straight to

1122
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 4: be able to purchase the book. And you know, before

1123
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 4: we get out of here, I really something that I

1124
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 4: personally find really valuable about this book, especially, I think

1125
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 4: something we explore quite a lot on the show is

1126
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 4: our personal journeys and our wellbeing and in trauma and

1127
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 4: and self awareness and also in the way that we

1128
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 4: are relating as men and women in this time right now,

1129
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 4: because that's an area that is having such an evolution totally.

1130
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 4: This book is a really powerful way to even understand

1131
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 4: how to have those conversations. We have been at odds

1132
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,880
Speaker 4: for a long time, and like you highlighted earlier in

1133
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 4: the episode, you know, sometimes you hear some of this

1134
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,800
Speaker 4: and you want to just shut down immediately when you

1135
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 4: hear the word patriarchy, especially if you know maybe there

1136
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 4: are males in your life that feel that they're not

1137
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,520
Speaker 4: quote unquote benefiting from the patriarchy that is the majority

1138
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,960
Speaker 4: in society right now. I think that this book really

1139
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 4: gives us stories terms, depth of understanding so that we

1140
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 4: can speak, each of us together from a disarmed but

1141
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 4: informed in creative space, because this conversation has to evolve.

1142
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 4: It is time and the way consciousness has been shifting

1143
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 4: on our planet, especially in the last five years, we

1144
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 4: can really do this. We can really do this now.

1145
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 4: We can really bring forward change and thought patterns, beliefs,

1146
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 4: behavior within our family systems, within our communities now, more

1147
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 4: than we have ever been able.

1148
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 2: To or how to write to.

1149
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, thank you.

1150
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us, thank you for

1151
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 4: having me, and now must stay.

1152
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week.

1153
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 4: The content presented on Deeply Wells serves solely for educational

1154
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 4: and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement

1155
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 4: for personalized medical or mental health guidance, and does not

1156
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 4: constitute a provider patient relationship. As always, it is advisable

1157
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 4: to consult with your healthcare provider or health team for

1158
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 4: any specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect

1159
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,440
Speaker 4: with me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram,

1160
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,600
Speaker 4: or you can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com.

1161
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to the.

1162
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 4: Show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget. Please rate, review, and

1163
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 4: subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply Well

1164
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:06,879
Speaker 4: is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.

1165
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 4: It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown.

1166
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 4: The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from

1167
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 4: Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio

1168
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,120
Speaker 4: app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.