Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heeart Radio. It's the big take.
Speaker 1: I'm Westkasova today, the tall challenge of getting earthquake aid
Speaker 1: two people deep inside a pariah nation. The international effort
Speaker 1: to aid millions of earthquake victims in Turkey and Syria
Speaker 1: has now transitioned from a rescue mission to find trapped
Speaker 1: survivors to a relief and rebuilding campaign that's expected to
Speaker 1: take years. Delivering aid of any kind is especially difficult
Speaker 1: in Syria. The country and its leader Bashar al Assad
Speaker 1: are cut off from most other nations by US and
Speaker 1: European economic sanctions that are aimed at pressuring Asad's regime.
Speaker 1: For more than a decade, he has violently tried to
Speaker 1: crush opposition. Governments and relief organizations that want to help
Speaker 1: are often obstructed by the demands of the government, which
Speaker 1: tries to control the flow of money and supplies, and
Speaker 1: there's sometimes wary of running afoul of the sanctions, which
Speaker 1: can come with heavy penalties. What we hope to see
Speaker 1: is thus all viable routes into northwest Syria are open
Speaker 1: to ensure that aid agencies can really get into the
Speaker 1: country on scale and speed necessary to deal with this
Speaker 1: really devastating crisis. That's Jennifer Higgins with the International Rescue Committee.
Speaker 1: It's a group that's trying to get past all these
Speaker 1: hurdles and help earthquake victims in Syria. And we'll hear
Speaker 1: more from her in just a bit. First, my colleague
Speaker 1: Sylvia Westall in Dubai and Nick Wadham's in Washington are
Speaker 1: here to untangle the complexities of trying to do the
Speaker 1: right thing in a volatile part of the world. Sylvia,
Speaker 1: can you describe what's happening right now both in Syria
Speaker 1: and in Turkey? What was saying is a very different
Speaker 1: picture on the Turkish and Syrian side, although you know
Speaker 1: they're obviously affected by the same earthquake and their populations
Speaker 1: that live very closely together along the border. A lot
Speaker 1: of the focus has been on Turkey and the earthquakes
Speaker 1: because the actual epicenter of the earthquake was in Turkeing Gaziana,
Speaker 1: and there's just been sort of much more coverage about
Speaker 1: what's been happening there. Um, it's easy to report there,
Speaker 1: it's easy to get information and to understand what's happening.
Speaker 1: These are also areas that are important to the Turkish government,
Speaker 1: their strongholds of support for President Urdu and his party
Speaker 1: had kind of an updated death and injuries toll of
Speaker 1: people from Turkey. But Syria, the information has been quite
Speaker 1: spotty UM and the numbers don't really make sense. They
Speaker 1: have been reported on the official news agency Nikkas. Sylvia
Speaker 1: points out earthquakes. You don't care about borders, but governments do.
Speaker 1: And that difference between the response in Syria and the
Speaker 1: response in Turkey, especially from the world community, has been
Speaker 1: very different, in part because of the heavy sanctions against Syria.
Speaker 1: Can you explain just exactly why Syria has become essentially
Speaker 1: a pariah nation. The Syrian civil war began in about
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, and since then Bashar Alasa, the president,
Speaker 1: has committed a series of abuses against his own people,
Speaker 1: including chlorine gas attacks. UM and the country has essentially
Speaker 1: been driven by civil war and is now divided into
Speaker 1: a series of territories where various groups have control. And
Speaker 1: I mean, my my impression from the U. S side
Speaker 1: is that there's basically assad and then this whole array
Speaker 1: of other groups including you know, the remnants of the
Speaker 1: Islamic State UH, and then you have the involvement of
Speaker 1: all sorts of other countries from the outside obviously Turkey, Israel,
Speaker 1: um Iran. It's just sort of become this welter of
Speaker 1: groups where the battle lines are not clear and are
Speaker 1: constantly changing. You know, Sylvia, I would love to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. Actually, like half the time, I'm
Speaker 1: not even really sure what anybody is fighting for anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been eleven years since the start of
Speaker 1: the Civil War, and it can sometimes feel very hard
Speaker 1: as an outsider to really understand. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: what us adds motivations are. He wants to stay in
Speaker 1: power and have as much control as possible. But all
Speaker 1: the other groups, it's like, what do they want? I
Speaker 1: would just question whether we can call it a civil
Speaker 1: war at all, because I guess the civil war is
Speaker 1: a war between its own people's and what we really
Speaker 1: have hair is a there's a conflict in a country
Speaker 1: that's drawn in lots of international powers and groups and
Speaker 1: aims and demands and so on. So I kind of
Speaker 1: try to avoid calling it a civil war in our
Speaker 1: copy because it's it's kind of more completely beyond that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, it started off as a mainly peaceful uprising
Speaker 1: against the government. So you had this uprising, you had
Speaker 1: a very violent crackdown against it. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we're really seeing a war that's brought in global powers.
Speaker 1: If the Syrian government the main aim is to reclaim
Speaker 1: all Syrian territory and say this is Syria as Syria
Speaker 1: as a whole, and then these groups on the ground,
Speaker 1: yet they all have different motivations. They want to hold
Speaker 1: onto the territories that they have, the areas that were
Speaker 1: affected by the earthquake. It's a mix of groups that
Speaker 1: control the territory. It's mainly out of government control. In
Speaker 1: those areas are groups like the kind of the remnants
Speaker 1: of the main Syrian rebel force. Also got the US
Speaker 1: backed forces, which involved mainly Kurdish fighters but also other
Speaker 1: fighters from other groups. That's one other force. Um, you've
Speaker 1: got the remnants of a lost front al Qaeda Islamic state,
Speaker 1: but that's kind of quite a minimal presence, and I
Speaker 1: think perhaps in the US discourse that's kind of often
Speaker 1: highlighted as a as a main concern in Syria. And
Speaker 1: I would say, you know, all of this air space
Speaker 1: as well. You know, Russia basically controls the airspace, so
Speaker 1: that's another element in there. You've got Iranian backed elements,
Speaker 1: You've got pockets of government held support, So it's this
Speaker 1: real mix of different groups in these areas. But the
Speaker 1: main kind of problem is within that area, you've got
Speaker 1: a lack of infrastructure for transporting large amounts of aid.
Speaker 1: In an effort to either boot us from power or
Speaker 1: sway the course of the civil war, the U S
Speaker 1: and its allies have imposed some of the most crippling
Speaker 1: sanctions anywhere in the world. I mean up there with
Speaker 1: North Korea and Me and mar and it's really made
Speaker 1: Syria essentially one of the most isolated countries economically in
Speaker 1: the world. The middle class has scattered, international companies have
Speaker 1: completely scattered. There is no resource, there's no infrastructure now
Speaker 1: on the ground for a lot of aid groups. Some
Speaker 1: aid groups do do work there, but there's really no
Speaker 1: financial infrastructure on the ground now for groups to go
Speaker 1: in quickly and to be able to provide the support,
Speaker 1: the humanitarian assistance that Syria would need. Yes, they've got,
Speaker 1: you know, people that have been internally displaced in the
Speaker 1: millions within Syria itself, and many of those people are
Speaker 1: in some of those zones. And then you've got also
Speaker 1: people that have crossed over the border into Turkey. So
Speaker 1: you've got the largest refugee population in the world is
Speaker 1: in Turkey and in the very zone that was affected.
Speaker 1: So you've got you know, internal refugee in Syria, You've
Speaker 1: got refugees within Turkey. So you've got some of these
Speaker 1: most vulnerable populations in both countries that have been affected. UM,
Speaker 1: and Nick is right. You know, if you look at
Speaker 1: sort of the aid response, UM, it's very complicated in Syria.
Speaker 1: And you know, you've seen sort of on the surface
Speaker 1: kind of what the Syrian government has been saying. We
Speaker 1: had assets Advisor Buthana Chaban saying that sanctions are to
Speaker 1: blame and if we just lift the sanctions, or if
Speaker 1: European and US now lift the sanctions and this will
Speaker 1: help aid get through. But the actual picture is a
Speaker 1: lot more complicated, and the alluded to it's a very
Speaker 1: difficult for aid groups to operate in Syria, and most
Speaker 1: of the international aid groups have to go via Damascus
Speaker 1: with agreements with the government and then need to negotiate
Speaker 1: on aid transferring into non government held areas, so reweld
Speaker 1: held areas and that's the second step. So the first
Speaker 1: step is getting into Syria itself, into the government held
Speaker 1: areas or talking with the government, and then crossing over
Speaker 1: the lines of the Syrian conflict into the areas that
Speaker 1: need it most. And that's where the real problem lies
Speaker 1: and real the real problem begins. And that's what perhaps
Speaker 1: the focus has been off Seria for a while. I
Speaker 1: covered the you know, the outbreak of war back in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, and it's strange. It's the same
Speaker 1: and trenched positions, the same problems as beginning. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of what the situation that is now and that
Speaker 1: I cannot get to the peat populations that really needed
Speaker 1: an aid is being used as a tool in the
Speaker 1: wider conflict. These people are being used as political porns
Speaker 1: in a way, in this in this war that's gone
Speaker 1: on since two thousand and eleven. The one thing, though,
Speaker 1: that's so interesting to me and frankly depressing, is how
Speaker 1: much Syria has slid off of the agenda in the US.
Speaker 1: It just does not feel like a priority for the
Speaker 1: Biden administration. You know, when I started covering the State
Speaker 1: Department in John Carey was meeting Sergey level of the
Speaker 1: Russian Foreign Minister. The topic was Syria humanitarian corridors, trying
Speaker 1: to figure this out together under Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of pressure over the chlorine gas attacks.
Speaker 1: It just felt like we were talking about Syria so
Speaker 1: much more in the West and now you you hear
Speaker 1: conversations about US troop presence, and it's sort of held
Speaker 1: up as this place a prime example of where the
Speaker 1: US is doing things, has troops on the ground that
Speaker 1: it's not really telling its own people about. But otherwise
Speaker 1: it just feels like it's been relegated to another one
Speaker 1: of these completely intractable problems that no one wants to
Speaker 1: deal with. Sylvie and Nick, please stay with me. Our
Speaker 1: conversation continues after the break, Nick and Sylvia, and you
Speaker 1: describe all of this is why it has been so
Speaker 1: difficult to help people in Syria, certainly much harder than
Speaker 1: it has been in Turkey. And Syria of course has
Speaker 1: very little resources to come to the aid of its
Speaker 1: own people and therefore reliant on international aid. Can you
Speaker 1: describe how sanctions are affecting the ability to deliver aid
Speaker 1: where it's needed, So the way that the entirety of
Speaker 1: u S sanctions policy is structured is on self compliance,
Speaker 1: on forcing banks UH and companies out there too police
Speaker 1: themselves on whether they are keeping up with sanctions, and
Speaker 1: even if they have made a mistake and done an
Speaker 1: inadvertent sanctions violation, they can be punished very very severe.
Speaker 1: What would a sanctions violation be? Can you describe what
Speaker 1: a sanction is? In this case, you facilitate a transaction
Speaker 1: between an international aid group and an organization in Syria.
Speaker 1: If that organization in Syria is determined to have links
Speaker 1: to US ODD or the Islamic State or whatever else,
Speaker 1: they are a sanctioned entity. So whoever it is, a
Speaker 1: bank could be punished, you know, millions and millions of
Speaker 1: dollars for facilitating that transaction, even if it's nominally doing
Speaker 1: so under the guise of humanitarian aid. And the whole
Speaker 1: idea there is to make it so that financial institutions
Speaker 1: don't even want to do it, that's right. So in
Speaker 1: some cases the Treasury Department leaves some of these rules
Speaker 1: intentionally vague as a as a way of scattering players
Speaker 1: from the market. They want to keep people out of Syria.
Speaker 1: So what they do is they just say you can't
Speaker 1: do business with these types of groups. We're not going
Speaker 1: to be very specific about the sort of business you
Speaker 1: can and can't do. And the response is just that
Speaker 1: banks will say, Okay, we have these algorithms, we have
Speaker 1: these spreadsheets that tell us, you know who or what
Speaker 1: is on a sanctioned list, if it has anything to
Speaker 1: do with Syria, we're not going to have anything to
Speaker 1: do with you. I mean, I spoke to an international
Speaker 1: aid group at one point that was doing work in Syria.
Speaker 1: They had to change who they did all of their
Speaker 1: banking with everywhere in the world, payroll, whatever it was,
Speaker 1: because the previous bank they were working with said, you
Speaker 1: have ties to Syria, we don't want to touch you
Speaker 1: at all. It's not only that banks don't want to
Speaker 1: have anything to do with Syria. I mean, they haven't
Speaker 1: had a relationship with Syria for for many, many years,
Speaker 1: but they don't even want to have a relationship with
Speaker 1: a customer that might have some link to Syria. So
Speaker 1: the result is that it just makes a country like Syria.
Speaker 1: Even someone who is a citizen of Syria or people
Speaker 1: who have relatives in Syria who live in the United States,
Speaker 1: it makes those people radioactive as well. And we've seen
Speaker 1: this a lot, whether it's Iran, Syria, other sanctioned countries Venezuela,
Speaker 1: where people who have relatives or connections or do business
Speaker 1: in some way in those countries, they themselves can't even
Speaker 1: get banking services Sylvia. What does that mean on the
Speaker 1: ground in Syria when we're talking about actual aid groups
Speaker 1: that normally rush into a disaster scene like this, what
Speaker 1: are they finding when it comes to being able to
Speaker 1: deliver help in this sanction nation. Well, I think there's
Speaker 1: two other things to think about with this. So it's
Speaker 1: true that you know, if a country is under sanctions,
Speaker 1: it complicates any kind of transactions, whether it's you know, trade, financial,
Speaker 1: or anything like this. That's just a fact that it
Speaker 1: kind of holds people off doing it because they see,
Speaker 1: like Nick was saying, they see the word Syria or anything.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go there. However, I think there's
Speaker 1: an aid there's two different things. There's sort of aid
Speaker 1: channel through the U N and the EU, who have
Speaker 1: a system in place to do that via Damascus. So
Speaker 1: you have these sort of international groupings of aid, and
Speaker 1: then you have bilateral aid. So I think you know,
Speaker 1: countries like the US, Germany, France. They won't do bilateral
Speaker 1: direct Syria to Germany, US to Syria eight because it's
Speaker 1: just too toxic. But they can contribute to an aid
Speaker 1: fund or aid via a u N agency or the EU.
Speaker 1: We should avoid the idea that sanctions necessarily means a stoppage.
Speaker 1: For example, sanctions haven't stopped the u A delivering aid
Speaker 1: to Syria, I mean, and the u A has has
Speaker 1: has airlifted tons of aid to both Syria and Turkey.
Speaker 1: So there's a bilateral aid transfer for a country that
Speaker 1: has a different point of view about the sanctions there.
Speaker 1: So you have that, so the aid is kind of
Speaker 1: trickling through on a bilateral basis, and you've also got
Speaker 1: this international aid that can be channeled through the u
Speaker 1: N and the EU. The problem really lies is that,
Speaker 1: you know, the u N and the EU will deal
Speaker 1: with Damascus and then they need to negotiate in order
Speaker 1: to deliver the aid to the places that they think
Speaker 1: it's needed. And it's always this very delicate game. You know,
Speaker 1: the government wants the aid, all aid to go to
Speaker 1: government held areas that it controls, but you know, some
Speaker 1: of these areas that are really hit are not government
Speaker 1: hold areas, So how do you cross those lines, how
Speaker 1: do you cross those battle lines? How do you cross
Speaker 1: into areas which you know you need to get government access?
Speaker 1: You need to be able to have the ability to
Speaker 1: cross over. And also, you know, I think you know,
Speaker 1: we've also thought, you know, you need to be able
Speaker 1: to feel that it's safe and secure to cross these
Speaker 1: lines to deliver aid in the first place. And then
Speaker 1: how does the aid get transferred with the country itself?
Speaker 1: If you're dealing with Damascus, is Damascus going to allow
Speaker 1: aid flows to happen to all parts of the country
Speaker 1: And we've seen throughout the Syrian conflict that that's just
Speaker 1: not happened. And if you're an aid group and the
Speaker 1: outside government is saying you must deliver it to us
Speaker 1: and then we'll make sure it gets there, there isn't
Speaker 1: a whole lot of faith. I imagine that USI is
Speaker 1: actually going to deliver that aid two areas not controlled
Speaker 1: by his government that he's trying to destroy. It's the
Speaker 1: constant dilemma of aid workers in Syria. What do they do?
Speaker 1: Do they deliver nothing? Do they deliver something and hope
Speaker 1: that it will get through? And how can they guarantee
Speaker 1: that it will get through. There's been Turkish attempts to
Speaker 1: get cross border aid in um and through those checkpoints,
Speaker 1: which requires Russian Okay, again because the air space and
Speaker 1: the fact that Russia is very present in that area.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, maybe in one way it
Speaker 1: would be easier for I know, the US has done
Speaker 1: it's supporting Turkish aide partners right through those cross border
Speaker 1: transfers that kind of make more sense than going through
Speaker 1: Damascus and hoping it will get there. At least if
Speaker 1: you're going to Turkey, then things will get through that border.
Speaker 1: I guess the issue is that, um, you know, there's
Speaker 1: questions perhaps from the US or from other sides about
Speaker 1: which groups Turkey is delivering a too, and whether that
Speaker 1: can be tracked, and who they are and of those
Speaker 1: people that they don't like. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: probably see the US Western powers opting to go through
Speaker 1: the UN, the EU, through Turkey and through other partners
Speaker 1: that can do that. Nick. In the aftermath of the earthquake,
Speaker 1: the US decided to suspend some of the sanctions against
Speaker 1: Syria for humanitarian an earthquake relief. How does that work?
Speaker 1: The Treasury Department issues what's called a general license, and
Speaker 1: that theoretically would allow banks to facilitate transactions so that
Speaker 1: you can get money to the people who need it most.
Speaker 1: And what's actually happened in the Syria case, which is
Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary, is the general license is even more broad
Speaker 1: than it has been in the past. So what the U. S.
Speaker 1: Government has said is basically, if you're facilitating a transaction
Speaker 1: into Syria and you are told that that money is
Speaker 1: going to be used for for humanitarian aid, you are
Speaker 1: basically absolved of all responsibility for what actually ends up
Speaker 1: happening to that money. And this has been the problem
Speaker 1: in the past because a bank or a payment processor
Speaker 1: will facilitate a transaction and if the person that uses
Speaker 1: that money then takes it and spends it on something
Speaker 1: that it wasn't intended for, the bank can be punished.
Speaker 1: So what the government has said now is basically that
Speaker 1: is no longer the case. If if you are told
Speaker 1: this money is going to be used for humanitarian relief,
Speaker 1: you have no responsibility in terms of what actually ends
Speaker 1: up happening to the money. And that's a big change.
Speaker 1: And so do you think that's going to open up
Speaker 1: the gates to more money going to Syria or our
Speaker 1: institution is still going to be like, yeah, you say that,
Speaker 1: but we're not going to risk everything on you know,
Speaker 1: hope mean that that's the case. I would not expect
Speaker 1: banks to get rid of their extremely cautious approach to Syria. Uh,
Speaker 1: this has been a perennial problem. The US government is
Speaker 1: constantly doing this, whether it's Iran, me and mar North Korea.
Speaker 1: They say, okay, we provide exemptions for humanitarian aids. So
Speaker 1: the jury is very much out whether this much more
Speaker 1: sweeping license will help. But you know, Sylvia, as as
Speaker 1: you're saying, um, it's so much bigger because who are
Speaker 1: you going to give that money to? Is that infrastructure there?
Speaker 1: Will the partners be able to get the get the
Speaker 1: aid to where it needs to go. And in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, those pathways are not really there, that
Speaker 1: that infrastructure was all taken away. And to just expect
Speaker 1: that this is just going to suddenly kick back in
Speaker 1: the high year because the US government issued a license
Speaker 1: to allow the sort of transactions that it has spent
Speaker 1: twelve years trying to dismantle. That's gonna be a heavy lift, Sylvia.
Speaker 1: When you look ahead, what is the fate of all
Speaker 1: of these people already living in terrible conditions, whose lives
Speaker 1: have now been utterly devastated. This conflict in Syria has
Speaker 1: been going on for more than a decade. This has
Speaker 1: reached areas that have been devastated. You know, basic infrastructure
Speaker 1: has crumbled in many ways. People have found a way
Speaker 1: to get along and and now they've got this new
Speaker 1: enormous challenge to face. It's, you know, real humanitarian crisis
Speaker 1: that's only got worse by what's happened. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know what, in terms of aid and what will happen,
Speaker 1: A lot depends on Turkey and how Turkey is able
Speaker 1: to see if it can somehow aid can be delivered
Speaker 1: through more checkpoints with Syria. On the question of sanctions,
Speaker 1: the Syrian government has argued that all they need now
Speaker 1: is the lifting of European and U S sanctions and
Speaker 1: they've said that it's the sanctions that have made life
Speaker 1: impossible in Syria, and that's actually called the death of
Speaker 1: people under the rubble. So that's sort of the Syrian
Speaker 1: government line, and aid work as and diplomats involved are
Speaker 1: really rejecting this idea. They say that the government in
Speaker 1: Damascus is exploiting the situation for its own gain um
Speaker 1: and they're saying that most serenade funded by European US
Speaker 1: goes for UN agencies and their local partners in the capitol,
Speaker 1: so it goes to Damascus, and that Syria has routinely
Speaker 1: blocked international aid to rebel held areas of the country,
Speaker 1: so it's and siphoned off supplies to government held areas.
Speaker 1: So it's more about the internal movement of aid that's
Speaker 1: the problem, and that Damascus does get aid. It's not
Speaker 1: sanctions that are to blame for this. It's the internal
Speaker 1: movement of aid within the country that's the problem. And
Speaker 1: it's really interesting that you say that, Sylvia, because also historically,
Speaker 1: when you you look back at situations where countries have
Speaker 1: been under heavy sanction. Uh, that's an argument that's been
Speaker 1: made before where a leader will find it politically expedient
Speaker 1: to blame sanctions on the countries that are applying them,
Speaker 1: because it gives them, you know, an outsider to blame
Speaker 1: for policy that they themselves created. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I think what's so tragic about the serious situation is
Speaker 1: that the US, by imposing all these sanctions and essentially
Speaker 1: severing Syria from the global financial community, Washington has boxed
Speaker 1: itself out and lost whatever leverage financial leverage it had
Speaker 1: over Syria to affect any change. Nick Woddham's Sylvia Westall,
Speaker 1: thanks for talking with me today. Thank you when we
Speaker 1: come back. How one aid group is managing to get
Speaker 1: help to earthquake victims in Syria. We heard Sylvia say
Speaker 1: that entering Syria through Turkey is one way AID groups
Speaker 1: can get help to the people there without having to
Speaker 1: go through the Syrian government or risk violating US and
Speaker 1: European sanctions. And that's what the International Rescue Committee is doing.
Speaker 1: It's a non governmental organization or NGO, and they're on
Speaker 1: the ground in Syria. Now. Jennifer Higgins, who you heard
Speaker 1: briefly at the top of the show, coordinates the group's
Speaker 1: efforts in Syria, and she joins me now from a
Speaker 1: man Jordan's Jennifer, can you describe what you're seeing on
Speaker 1: the ground right now in Syria? Yeah, of course, I
Speaker 1: mean every day we're really still coming to grasp the
Speaker 1: effects of this devastating earthquake. You know, more than twenty
Speaker 1: six million people have been affected, and this includes thirteen
Speaker 1: million Syrians who are already in crisis inside Syria and
Speaker 1: two million Syrian refugees who are living in the affected
Speaker 1: areas in Turkey. You know, the impacts of this earthquake
Speaker 1: will really only exasperbate the needs of these people. At
Speaker 1: a time whenever we've seen temperatures plummeting and a winter
Speaker 1: storm coming into the area, and you know, we had
Speaker 1: the i r C had been warning for a long
Speaker 1: time about the devastating impacts winter would have on this
Speaker 1: highly vulnerable population, and you know, it's it's still very
Speaker 1: hard to tell how many people will be really left
Speaker 1: homeless from this crisis, and the huge numbers of casualties
Speaker 1: especially is overwhelming and already critically fragile healthcare system in
Speaker 1: northwest Syria, and you know, following not only COVID nineteen,
Speaker 1: the conflict, but also a very recent cholera outbreak. You know,
Speaker 1: we had thirty thousand cases of cholera just in December,
Speaker 1: and we were responding to that already as an emergency.
Speaker 1: There's really urgent medical needs in the hospitals, not only medicines,
Speaker 1: but bondages, pain killers, really all sorts of services, and
Speaker 1: around fifty seven hospitals were damaged due to the earthquake.
Speaker 1: We've been talking today about how sanctions against Syria make
Speaker 1: it very difficult to work inside the country and deliver
Speaker 1: aid to parts of the country that are controlled by
Speaker 1: the government. Your group, the i r C, operates into
Speaker 1: a part of the country that is not controlled by
Speaker 1: the Assad government and therefore is outside the scope of
Speaker 1: sanctions for humanitarian purposes. Can you describe how you operate
Speaker 1: in this part of the country. I mean, this division
Speaker 1: of Syria and itself provides a huge challenge in terms
Speaker 1: of providing an uh you know, a good response to
Speaker 1: vulnerable communities. But the real challenges that every year we're
Speaker 1: really seeing the humanitarian needs increasing, but yet the global
Speaker 1: focus on Syria and the finances being made available are
Speaker 1: really decreasing, you know. And what's challenging specifically about this
Speaker 1: area of the northwest of the country is that most
Speaker 1: of our staff from outside of the northwest can't enter,
Speaker 1: and this is why we really rely on our excellent
Speaker 1: team on the ground as well as our partner organizations
Speaker 1: for providing our response, you know. And this is also
Speaker 1: further compounded by the fact that there's very limited crossings
Speaker 1: into the area and the last few years we've been
Speaker 1: only operating or the u N has only been operating
Speaker 1: through one crossing point called bab Ahawa. As NGOs, we
Speaker 1: use commercial routs across number of border crossing points to
Speaker 1: deliver assistance. But the scale of what US and local
Speaker 1: organizations can do with nothing really to match what the
Speaker 1: u N can do. You know, this disaster clearly demonstrates
Speaker 1: the vital need to keep you know, life saving cross
Speaker 1: border assistance from Turkey into northwest Syria. And and you know,
Speaker 1: what we hope to see is that all viable routes
Speaker 1: into northwest Syria are opened to ensure that aid agencies
Speaker 1: can really get into the country at scale and speed
Speaker 1: necessary to deal with this really devastating crisis. The government
Speaker 1: has tried to make heads so that all aid has
Speaker 1: to go through Damascus and then the government will distribute it.
Speaker 1: Has that hampered you at all? It hasn't affected us
Speaker 1: because we are still able to use the border crossing
Speaker 1: points from Turkey into northwest Syria and this has really
Speaker 1: always been our priority. You know. Um Babahwa is specifically
Speaker 1: for the u N mandated aid, but there is also
Speaker 1: a commercial channel there which is the one that NGOs
Speaker 1: use and there's also some other gates like Baba Salam
Speaker 1: where we can also use the commercial channels to get
Speaker 1: necessary aid into the area. We've seen some delays over
Speaker 1: the last weeks of the transport of commercial goods, but
Speaker 1: you know, only time will tell if this is just
Speaker 1: a backlog due to needs. But also we have to
Speaker 1: recognize that the area of Turkey that's been worse hit
Speaker 1: by the earthquake, you know, is really where all of
Speaker 1: these crossing points are. So you know, there's also just
Speaker 1: a lack of resources for manning these border crossing points
Speaker 1: at the moment. But we're really watching closely to make
Speaker 1: sure that we can continue to escalate and get the
Speaker 1: goods that we need into into northwest s Ayria, you know,
Speaker 1: through these crossing points, because it's so difficult to deliver
Speaker 1: aid over these limited passages and routes into the country.
Speaker 1: How long do you think it will take before the
Speaker 1: necessary help can be delivered to all of these people
Speaker 1: who are already suffering. Yeah, I think, you know, we're
Speaker 1: really trying to to keep our finger on the pulse
Speaker 1: in terms of this. It's been really hard over the
Speaker 1: last week, you know, amidst all of us, you can
Speaker 1: imagine everyone mobilizing so quickly to start to respond on
Speaker 1: the ground to understand the mechanisms by which we're going
Speaker 1: to be able to provide aid. You know, Luckily for
Speaker 1: ourselves in the I r C, we have stocks on
Speaker 1: the ground, we have staff in place on the ground,
Speaker 1: and we have a delivery of pharmaceuticals due to come
Speaker 1: in the next weeks. So we just have to wait
Speaker 1: to see if it's able to really scale up quickly
Speaker 1: to meet the needs, because the pace at which we're
Speaker 1: seeing now is just is just not enough. And if
Speaker 1: we don't really urgently try and open up those roots
Speaker 1: and get more goods across, we'll just see more in
Speaker 1: lives really needlessly being lost. Jennifer Higgins, thanks for speaking
Speaker 1: with me. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: us here at The Big Take. It's a daily podcast
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Speaker 1: tomorrow with another big take.