1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heeart Radio. It's the big take. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: I'm Westkasova today, the tall challenge of getting earthquake aid 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: two people deep inside a pariah nation. The international effort 4 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: to aid millions of earthquake victims in Turkey and Syria 5 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: has now transitioned from a rescue mission to find trapped 6 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: survivors to a relief and rebuilding campaign that's expected to 7 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: take years. Delivering aid of any kind is especially difficult 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: in Syria. The country and its leader Bashar al Assad 9 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: are cut off from most other nations by US and 10 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: European economic sanctions that are aimed at pressuring Asad's regime. 11 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: For more than a decade, he has violently tried to 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: crush opposition. Governments and relief organizations that want to help 13 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: are often obstructed by the demands of the government, which 14 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: tries to control the flow of money and supplies, and 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 1: there's sometimes wary of running afoul of the sanctions, which 16 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: can come with heavy penalties. What we hope to see 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: is thus all viable routes into northwest Syria are open 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: to ensure that aid agencies can really get into the 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: country on scale and speed necessary to deal with this 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: really devastating crisis. That's Jennifer Higgins with the International Rescue Committee. 21 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: It's a group that's trying to get past all these 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: hurdles and help earthquake victims in Syria. And we'll hear 23 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: more from her in just a bit. First, my colleague 24 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: Sylvia Westall in Dubai and Nick Wadham's in Washington are 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: here to untangle the complexities of trying to do the 26 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: right thing in a volatile part of the world. Sylvia, 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: can you describe what's happening right now both in Syria 28 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: and in Turkey? What was saying is a very different 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: picture on the Turkish and Syrian side, although you know 30 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: they're obviously affected by the same earthquake and their populations 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: that live very closely together along the border. A lot 32 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: of the focus has been on Turkey and the earthquakes 33 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: because the actual epicenter of the earthquake was in Turkeing Gaziana, 34 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: and there's just been sort of much more coverage about 35 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: what's been happening there. Um, it's easy to report there, 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: it's easy to get information and to understand what's happening. 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: These are also areas that are important to the Turkish government, 38 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: their strongholds of support for President Urdu and his party 39 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: had kind of an updated death and injuries toll of 40 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: people from Turkey. But Syria, the information has been quite 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: spotty UM and the numbers don't really make sense. They 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 1: have been reported on the official news agency Nikkas. Sylvia 43 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: points out earthquakes. You don't care about borders, but governments do. 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: And that difference between the response in Syria and the 45 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: response in Turkey, especially from the world community, has been 46 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: very different, in part because of the heavy sanctions against Syria. 47 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: Can you explain just exactly why Syria has become essentially 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: a pariah nation. The Syrian civil war began in about 49 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, and since then Bashar Alasa, the president, 50 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: has committed a series of abuses against his own people, 51 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: including chlorine gas attacks. UM and the country has essentially 52 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: been driven by civil war and is now divided into 53 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: a series of territories where various groups have control. And 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 1: I mean, my my impression from the U. S side 55 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: is that there's basically assad and then this whole array 56 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: of other groups including you know, the remnants of the 57 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: Islamic State UH, and then you have the involvement of 58 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: all sorts of other countries from the outside obviously Turkey, Israel, 59 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: um Iran. It's just sort of become this welter of 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: groups where the battle lines are not clear and are 61 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: constantly changing. You know, Sylvia, I would love to hear 62 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. Actually, like half the time, I'm 63 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: not even really sure what anybody is fighting for anymore. 64 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's been eleven years since the start of 65 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: the Civil War, and it can sometimes feel very hard 66 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: as an outsider to really understand. I mean, you know 67 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: what us adds motivations are. He wants to stay in 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: power and have as much control as possible. But all 69 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: the other groups, it's like, what do they want? I 70 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: would just question whether we can call it a civil 71 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: war at all, because I guess the civil war is 72 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: a war between its own people's and what we really 73 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: have hair is a there's a conflict in a country 74 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: that's drawn in lots of international powers and groups and 75 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: aims and demands and so on. So I kind of 76 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: try to avoid calling it a civil war in our 77 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: copy because it's it's kind of more completely beyond that. So, 78 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: you know, it started off as a mainly peaceful uprising 79 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: against the government. So you had this uprising, you had 80 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: a very violent crackdown against it. So I think, you know, 81 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: we're really seeing a war that's brought in global powers. 82 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: If the Syrian government the main aim is to reclaim 83 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: all Syrian territory and say this is Syria as Syria 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: as a whole, and then these groups on the ground, 85 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: yet they all have different motivations. They want to hold 86 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: onto the territories that they have, the areas that were 87 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: affected by the earthquake. It's a mix of groups that 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: control the territory. It's mainly out of government control. In 89 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: those areas are groups like the kind of the remnants 90 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: of the main Syrian rebel force. Also got the US 91 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: backed forces, which involved mainly Kurdish fighters but also other 92 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: fighters from other groups. That's one other force. Um, you've 93 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: got the remnants of a lost front al Qaeda Islamic state, 94 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: but that's kind of quite a minimal presence, and I 95 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: think perhaps in the US discourse that's kind of often 96 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: highlighted as a as a main concern in Syria. And 97 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,559 Speaker 1: I would say, you know, all of this air space 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: as well. You know, Russia basically controls the airspace, so 99 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: that's another element in there. You've got Iranian backed elements, 100 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: You've got pockets of government held support, So it's this 101 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: real mix of different groups in these areas. But the 102 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: main kind of problem is within that area, you've got 103 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: a lack of infrastructure for transporting large amounts of aid. 104 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: In an effort to either boot us from power or 105 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 1: sway the course of the civil war, the U S 106 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: and its allies have imposed some of the most crippling 107 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: sanctions anywhere in the world. I mean up there with 108 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: North Korea and Me and mar and it's really made 109 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: Syria essentially one of the most isolated countries economically in 110 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: the world. The middle class has scattered, international companies have 111 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: completely scattered. There is no resource, there's no infrastructure now 112 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: on the ground for a lot of aid groups. Some 113 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: aid groups do do work there, but there's really no 114 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: financial infrastructure on the ground now for groups to go 115 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: in quickly and to be able to provide the support, 116 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: the humanitarian assistance that Syria would need. Yes, they've got, 117 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: you know, people that have been internally displaced in the 118 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: millions within Syria itself, and many of those people are 119 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: in some of those zones. And then you've got also 120 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: people that have crossed over the border into Turkey. So 121 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: you've got the largest refugee population in the world is 122 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: in Turkey and in the very zone that was affected. 123 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: So you've got you know, internal refugee in Syria, You've 124 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: got refugees within Turkey. So you've got some of these 125 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: most vulnerable populations in both countries that have been affected. UM, 126 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: and Nick is right. You know, if you look at 127 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: sort of the aid response, UM, it's very complicated in Syria. 128 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: And you know, you've seen sort of on the surface 129 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of what the Syrian government has been saying. We 130 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: had assets Advisor Buthana Chaban saying that sanctions are to 131 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: blame and if we just lift the sanctions, or if 132 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: European and US now lift the sanctions and this will 133 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: help aid get through. But the actual picture is a 134 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: lot more complicated, and the alluded to it's a very 135 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: difficult for aid groups to operate in Syria, and most 136 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: of the international aid groups have to go via Damascus 137 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: with agreements with the government and then need to negotiate 138 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: on aid transferring into non government held areas, so reweld 139 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: held areas and that's the second step. So the first 140 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: step is getting into Syria itself, into the government held 141 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: areas or talking with the government, and then crossing over 142 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: the lines of the Syrian conflict into the areas that 143 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: need it most. And that's where the real problem lies 144 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: and real the real problem begins. And that's what perhaps 145 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: the focus has been off Seria for a while. I 146 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: covered the you know, the outbreak of war back in 147 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and eleven, and it's strange. It's the same 148 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and trenched positions, the same problems as beginning. And that's 149 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: kind of what the situation that is now and that 150 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: I cannot get to the peat populations that really needed 151 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: an aid is being used as a tool in the 152 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: wider conflict. These people are being used as political porns 153 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: in a way, in this in this war that's gone 154 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: on since two thousand and eleven. The one thing, though, 155 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: that's so interesting to me and frankly depressing, is how 156 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: much Syria has slid off of the agenda in the US. 157 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: It just does not feel like a priority for the 158 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: Biden administration. You know, when I started covering the State 159 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: Department in John Carey was meeting Sergey level of the 160 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: Russian Foreign Minister. The topic was Syria humanitarian corridors, trying 161 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: to figure this out together under Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. 162 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: There was a lot of pressure over the chlorine gas attacks. 163 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: It just felt like we were talking about Syria so 164 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: much more in the West and now you you hear 165 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: conversations about US troop presence, and it's sort of held 166 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: up as this place a prime example of where the 167 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: US is doing things, has troops on the ground that 168 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: it's not really telling its own people about. But otherwise 169 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: it just feels like it's been relegated to another one 170 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: of these completely intractable problems that no one wants to 171 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: deal with. Sylvie and Nick, please stay with me. Our 172 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: conversation continues after the break, Nick and Sylvia, and you 173 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: describe all of this is why it has been so 174 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: difficult to help people in Syria, certainly much harder than 175 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: it has been in Turkey. And Syria of course has 176 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: very little resources to come to the aid of its 177 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: own people and therefore reliant on international aid. Can you 178 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: describe how sanctions are affecting the ability to deliver aid 179 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: where it's needed, So the way that the entirety of 180 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,479 Speaker 1: u S sanctions policy is structured is on self compliance, 181 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: on forcing banks UH and companies out there too police 182 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: themselves on whether they are keeping up with sanctions, and 183 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: even if they have made a mistake and done an 184 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: inadvertent sanctions violation, they can be punished very very severe. 185 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: What would a sanctions violation be? Can you describe what 186 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: a sanction is? In this case, you facilitate a transaction 187 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: between an international aid group and an organization in Syria. 188 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: If that organization in Syria is determined to have links 189 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: to US ODD or the Islamic State or whatever else, 190 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: they are a sanctioned entity. So whoever it is, a 191 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: bank could be punished, you know, millions and millions of 192 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: dollars for facilitating that transaction, even if it's nominally doing 193 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: so under the guise of humanitarian aid. And the whole 194 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: idea there is to make it so that financial institutions 195 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: don't even want to do it, that's right. So in 196 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: some cases the Treasury Department leaves some of these rules 197 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: intentionally vague as a as a way of scattering players 198 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: from the market. They want to keep people out of Syria. 199 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: So what they do is they just say you can't 200 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: do business with these types of groups. We're not going 201 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: to be very specific about the sort of business you 202 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: can and can't do. And the response is just that 203 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: banks will say, Okay, we have these algorithms, we have 204 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: these spreadsheets that tell us, you know who or what 205 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: is on a sanctioned list, if it has anything to 206 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: do with Syria, we're not going to have anything to 207 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: do with you. I mean, I spoke to an international 208 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: aid group at one point that was doing work in Syria. 209 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: They had to change who they did all of their 210 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: banking with everywhere in the world, payroll, whatever it was, 211 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: because the previous bank they were working with said, you 212 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: have ties to Syria, we don't want to touch you 213 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: at all. It's not only that banks don't want to 214 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: have anything to do with Syria. I mean, they haven't 215 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: had a relationship with Syria for for many, many years, 216 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: but they don't even want to have a relationship with 217 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: a customer that might have some link to Syria. So 218 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: the result is that it just makes a country like Syria. 219 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Even someone who is a citizen of Syria or people 220 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 1: who have relatives in Syria who live in the United States, 221 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: it makes those people radioactive as well. And we've seen 222 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: this a lot, whether it's Iran, Syria, other sanctioned countries Venezuela, 223 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: where people who have relatives or connections or do business 224 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: in some way in those countries, they themselves can't even 225 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: get banking services Sylvia. What does that mean on the 226 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: ground in Syria when we're talking about actual aid groups 227 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: that normally rush into a disaster scene like this, what 228 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: are they finding when it comes to being able to 229 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: deliver help in this sanction nation. Well, I think there's 230 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: two other things to think about with this. So it's 231 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: true that you know, if a country is under sanctions, 232 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: it complicates any kind of transactions, whether it's you know, trade, financial, 233 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: or anything like this. That's just a fact that it 234 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: kind of holds people off doing it because they see, 235 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: like Nick was saying, they see the word Syria or anything. 236 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to go there. However, I think there's 237 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,559 Speaker 1: an aid there's two different things. There's sort of aid 238 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: channel through the U N and the EU, who have 239 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: a system in place to do that via Damascus. So 240 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: you have these sort of international groupings of aid, and 241 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: then you have bilateral aid. So I think you know, 242 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: countries like the US, Germany, France. They won't do bilateral 243 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: direct Syria to Germany, US to Syria eight because it's 244 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: just too toxic. But they can contribute to an aid 245 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: fund or aid via a u N agency or the EU. 246 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: We should avoid the idea that sanctions necessarily means a stoppage. 247 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: For example, sanctions haven't stopped the u A delivering aid 248 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: to Syria, I mean, and the u A has has 249 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: has airlifted tons of aid to both Syria and Turkey. 250 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: So there's a bilateral aid transfer for a country that 251 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: has a different point of view about the sanctions there. 252 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: So you have that, so the aid is kind of 253 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: trickling through on a bilateral basis, and you've also got 254 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: this international aid that can be channeled through the u 255 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: N and the EU. The problem really lies is that, 256 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, the u N and the EU will deal 257 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: with Damascus and then they need to negotiate in order 258 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: to deliver the aid to the places that they think 259 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: it's needed. And it's always this very delicate game. You know, 260 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the government wants the aid, all aid to go to 261 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: government held areas that it controls, but you know, some 262 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: of these areas that are really hit are not government 263 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: hold areas, So how do you cross those lines, how 264 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: do you cross those battle lines? How do you cross 265 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: into areas which you know you need to get government access? 266 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: You need to be able to have the ability to 267 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: cross over. And also, you know, I think you know, 268 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: we've also thought, you know, you need to be able 269 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: to feel that it's safe and secure to cross these 270 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: lines to deliver aid in the first place. And then 271 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: how does the aid get transferred with the country itself? 272 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: If you're dealing with Damascus, is Damascus going to allow 273 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: aid flows to happen to all parts of the country 274 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: And we've seen throughout the Syrian conflict that that's just 275 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: not happened. And if you're an aid group and the 276 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: outside government is saying you must deliver it to us 277 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: and then we'll make sure it gets there, there isn't 278 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot of faith. I imagine that USI is 279 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: actually going to deliver that aid two areas not controlled 280 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: by his government that he's trying to destroy. It's the 281 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: constant dilemma of aid workers in Syria. What do they do? 282 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Do they deliver nothing? Do they deliver something and hope 283 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: that it will get through? And how can they guarantee 284 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: that it will get through. There's been Turkish attempts to 285 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: get cross border aid in um and through those checkpoints, 286 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: which requires Russian Okay, again because the air space and 287 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: the fact that Russia is very present in that area. 288 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: So I think, you know, maybe in one way it 289 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: would be easier for I know, the US has done 290 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: it's supporting Turkish aide partners right through those cross border 291 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: transfers that kind of make more sense than going through 292 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: Damascus and hoping it will get there. At least if 293 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: you're going to Turkey, then things will get through that border. 294 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: I guess the issue is that, um, you know, there's 295 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: questions perhaps from the US or from other sides about 296 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: which groups Turkey is delivering a too, and whether that 297 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: can be tracked, and who they are and of those 298 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: people that they don't like. So I think, you know, 299 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: probably see the US Western powers opting to go through 300 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: the UN, the EU, through Turkey and through other partners 301 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: that can do that. Nick. In the aftermath of the earthquake, 302 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: the US decided to suspend some of the sanctions against 303 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: Syria for humanitarian an earthquake relief. How does that work? 304 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: The Treasury Department issues what's called a general license, and 305 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: that theoretically would allow banks to facilitate transactions so that 306 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: you can get money to the people who need it most. 307 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: And what's actually happened in the Syria case, which is 308 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary, is the general license is even more broad 309 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: than it has been in the past. So what the U. S. 310 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: Government has said is basically, if you're facilitating a transaction 311 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: into Syria and you are told that that money is 312 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: going to be used for for humanitarian aid, you are 313 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: basically absolved of all responsibility for what actually ends up 314 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: happening to that money. And this has been the problem 315 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: in the past because a bank or a payment processor 316 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: will facilitate a transaction and if the person that uses 317 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: that money then takes it and spends it on something 318 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: that it wasn't intended for, the bank can be punished. 319 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: So what the government has said now is basically that 320 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: is no longer the case. If if you are told 321 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: this money is going to be used for humanitarian relief, 322 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: you have no responsibility in terms of what actually ends 323 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: up happening to the money. And that's a big change. 324 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: And so do you think that's going to open up 325 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: the gates to more money going to Syria or our 326 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: institution is still going to be like, yeah, you say that, 327 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: but we're not going to risk everything on you know, 328 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: hope mean that that's the case. I would not expect 329 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: banks to get rid of their extremely cautious approach to Syria. Uh, 330 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: this has been a perennial problem. The US government is 331 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: constantly doing this, whether it's Iran, me and mar North Korea. 332 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: They say, okay, we provide exemptions for humanitarian aids. So 333 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: the jury is very much out whether this much more 334 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: sweeping license will help. But you know, Sylvia, as as 335 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: you're saying, um, it's so much bigger because who are 336 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: you going to give that money to? Is that infrastructure there? 337 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: Will the partners be able to get the get the 338 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: aid to where it needs to go. And in a 339 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: lot of ways, those pathways are not really there, that 340 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: that infrastructure was all taken away. And to just expect 341 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: that this is just going to suddenly kick back in 342 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: the high year because the US government issued a license 343 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: to allow the sort of transactions that it has spent 344 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: twelve years trying to dismantle. That's gonna be a heavy lift, Sylvia. 345 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: When you look ahead, what is the fate of all 346 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: of these people already living in terrible conditions, whose lives 347 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: have now been utterly devastated. This conflict in Syria has 348 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: been going on for more than a decade. This has 349 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: reached areas that have been devastated. You know, basic infrastructure 350 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: has crumbled in many ways. People have found a way 351 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: to get along and and now they've got this new 352 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: enormous challenge to face. It's, you know, real humanitarian crisis 353 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: that's only got worse by what's happened. And I think, 354 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: you know what, in terms of aid and what will happen, 355 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: A lot depends on Turkey and how Turkey is able 356 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: to see if it can somehow aid can be delivered 357 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: through more checkpoints with Syria. On the question of sanctions, 358 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: the Syrian government has argued that all they need now 359 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: is the lifting of European and U S sanctions and 360 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: they've said that it's the sanctions that have made life 361 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: impossible in Syria, and that's actually called the death of 362 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,719 Speaker 1: people under the rubble. So that's sort of the Syrian 363 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: government line, and aid work as and diplomats involved are 364 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: really rejecting this idea. They say that the government in 365 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: Damascus is exploiting the situation for its own gain um 366 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: and they're saying that most serenade funded by European US 367 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: goes for UN agencies and their local partners in the capitol, 368 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,360 Speaker 1: so it goes to Damascus, and that Syria has routinely 369 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: blocked international aid to rebel held areas of the country, 370 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: so it's and siphoned off supplies to government held areas. 371 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: So it's more about the internal movement of aid that's 372 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: the problem, and that Damascus does get aid. It's not 373 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: sanctions that are to blame for this. It's the internal 374 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: movement of aid within the country that's the problem. And 375 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: it's really interesting that you say that, Sylvia, because also historically, 376 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: when you you look back at situations where countries have 377 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: been under heavy sanction. Uh, that's an argument that's been 378 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: made before where a leader will find it politically expedient 379 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: to blame sanctions on the countries that are applying them, 380 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: because it gives them, you know, an outsider to blame 381 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: for policy that they themselves created. At the same time, 382 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: I think what's so tragic about the serious situation is 383 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: that the US, by imposing all these sanctions and essentially 384 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: severing Syria from the global financial community, Washington has boxed 385 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: itself out and lost whatever leverage financial leverage it had 386 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: over Syria to affect any change. Nick Woddham's Sylvia Westall, 387 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: thanks for talking with me today. Thank you when we 388 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: come back. How one aid group is managing to get 389 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: help to earthquake victims in Syria. We heard Sylvia say 390 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: that entering Syria through Turkey is one way AID groups 391 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: can get help to the people there without having to 392 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: go through the Syrian government or risk violating US and 393 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: European sanctions. And that's what the International Rescue Committee is doing. 394 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: It's a non governmental organization or NGO, and they're on 395 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: the ground in Syria. Now. Jennifer Higgins, who you heard 396 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: briefly at the top of the show, coordinates the group's 397 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: efforts in Syria, and she joins me now from a 398 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: man Jordan's Jennifer, can you describe what you're seeing on 399 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: the ground right now in Syria? Yeah, of course, I 400 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: mean every day we're really still coming to grasp the 401 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: effects of this devastating earthquake. You know, more than twenty 402 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: six million people have been affected, and this includes thirteen 403 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: million Syrians who are already in crisis inside Syria and 404 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: two million Syrian refugees who are living in the affected 405 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: areas in Turkey. You know, the impacts of this earthquake 406 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: will really only exasperbate the needs of these people. At 407 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: a time whenever we've seen temperatures plummeting and a winter 408 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: storm coming into the area, and you know, we had 409 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: the i r C had been warning for a long 410 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: time about the devastating impacts winter would have on this 411 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: highly vulnerable population, and you know, it's it's still very 412 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: hard to tell how many people will be really left 413 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: homeless from this crisis, and the huge numbers of casualties 414 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: especially is overwhelming and already critically fragile healthcare system in 415 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: northwest Syria, and you know, following not only COVID nineteen, 416 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: the conflict, but also a very recent cholera outbreak. You know, 417 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: we had thirty thousand cases of cholera just in December, 418 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: and we were responding to that already as an emergency. 419 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: There's really urgent medical needs in the hospitals, not only medicines, 420 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: but bondages, pain killers, really all sorts of services, and 421 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: around fifty seven hospitals were damaged due to the earthquake. 422 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,479 Speaker 1: We've been talking today about how sanctions against Syria make 423 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: it very difficult to work inside the country and deliver 424 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: aid to parts of the country that are controlled by 425 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: the government. Your group, the i r C, operates into 426 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: a part of the country that is not controlled by 427 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: the Assad government and therefore is outside the scope of 428 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: sanctions for humanitarian purposes. Can you describe how you operate 429 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: in this part of the country. I mean, this division 430 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: of Syria and itself provides a huge challenge in terms 431 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: of providing an uh you know, a good response to 432 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: vulnerable communities. But the real challenges that every year we're 433 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: really seeing the humanitarian needs increasing, but yet the global 434 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: focus on Syria and the finances being made available are 435 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: really decreasing, you know. And what's challenging specifically about this 436 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: area of the northwest of the country is that most 437 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: of our staff from outside of the northwest can't enter, 438 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: and this is why we really rely on our excellent 439 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: team on the ground as well as our partner organizations 440 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: for providing our response, you know. And this is also 441 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: further compounded by the fact that there's very limited crossings 442 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: into the area and the last few years we've been 443 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: only operating or the u N has only been operating 444 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: through one crossing point called bab Ahawa. As NGOs, we 445 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: use commercial routs across number of border crossing points to 446 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: deliver assistance. But the scale of what US and local 447 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: organizations can do with nothing really to match what the 448 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: u N can do. You know, this disaster clearly demonstrates 449 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: the vital need to keep you know, life saving cross 450 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: border assistance from Turkey into northwest Syria. And and you know, 451 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: what we hope to see is that all viable routes 452 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: into northwest Syria are opened to ensure that aid agencies 453 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: can really get into the country at scale and speed 454 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: necessary to deal with this really devastating crisis. The government 455 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: has tried to make heads so that all aid has 456 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: to go through Damascus and then the government will distribute it. 457 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: Has that hampered you at all? It hasn't affected us 458 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: because we are still able to use the border crossing 459 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: points from Turkey into northwest Syria and this has really 460 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: always been our priority. You know. Um Babahwa is specifically 461 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: for the u N mandated aid, but there is also 462 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: a commercial channel there which is the one that NGOs 463 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: use and there's also some other gates like Baba Salam 464 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: where we can also use the commercial channels to get 465 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: necessary aid into the area. We've seen some delays over 466 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: the last weeks of the transport of commercial goods, but 467 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, only time will tell if this is just 468 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: a backlog due to needs. But also we have to 469 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: recognize that the area of Turkey that's been worse hit 470 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: by the earthquake, you know, is really where all of 471 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: these crossing points are. So you know, there's also just 472 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: a lack of resources for manning these border crossing points 473 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: at the moment. But we're really watching closely to make 474 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: sure that we can continue to escalate and get the 475 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: goods that we need into into northwest s Ayria, you know, 476 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: through these crossing points, because it's so difficult to deliver 477 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: aid over these limited passages and routes into the country. 478 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: How long do you think it will take before the 479 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: necessary help can be delivered to all of these people 480 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: who are already suffering. Yeah, I think, you know, we're 481 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: really trying to to keep our finger on the pulse 482 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: in terms of this. It's been really hard over the 483 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: last week, you know, amidst all of us, you can 484 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: imagine everyone mobilizing so quickly to start to respond on 485 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: the ground to understand the mechanisms by which we're going 486 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: to be able to provide aid. You know, Luckily for 487 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: ourselves in the I r C, we have stocks on 488 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: the ground, we have staff in place on the ground, 489 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: and we have a delivery of pharmaceuticals due to come 490 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: in the next weeks. So we just have to wait 491 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: to see if it's able to really scale up quickly 492 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: to meet the needs, because the pace at which we're 493 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: seeing now is just is just not enough. And if 494 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: we don't really urgently try and open up those roots 495 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: and get more goods across, we'll just see more in 496 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: lives really needlessly being lost. Jennifer Higgins, thanks for speaking 497 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 1: with me. Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to 498 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: us here at The Big Take. It's a daily podcast 499 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows from 500 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, 501 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen. And we'd love to hear from you. 502 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 503 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 504 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: Vicky Virgolina. Our Senior producer and the producer of this 505 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: episode is Katherine Fink, with additional production support from Federica Roman. 506 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: Yellow Hill de Garcia is our engineer. Our original music 507 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm Westcasova will be back 508 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: tomorrow with another big take.