WEBVTT - ALL BALL - Utah State head coach Jerrod Calhoun 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.879 Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.160 all ball. Obviously, since the last recording of this year podcast, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.040 a lot has happened. What hasn't happened is we haven't 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.120 won a game. And to those of you who are 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.360 coaches who are listening, you're like, man, that's got to 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.120 be really har right, And the answer is yeah, yeah, 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:30.920 it's hard. And the you know, the thing that I 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.479 take pride in is there's there's no quitting anybody in 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.159 their staff. There's no quit in our players. We have. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.839 We have a new big guy, Yonatan Levy, who I 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.519 think we'll get him to join us in a podcast, 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:47.600 probably this upcoming week, who came over from Israel. He's 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.120 still kind of rounding into shape, although round is the 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:53.760 shape he fouled out in nine and a half minutes 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.160 against Northern Kentucky. I am, I am. I'm doing my 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:03.720 best to not say anything negative about anybody who blows 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.280 a whistle during the game, but I'm going to say 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.920 that's not why we lost. But it was disconcerting that, man, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.240 we really didn't feel like that was a game in 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:18.360 which we had we were at a competitive disadvantage on 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.319 some level in that aspect of it. But here's the 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.440 part that you got to take ownership of and I 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:29.680 actually like is that we're getting better. We're getting better. 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.560 And I know this is not horseshoes and hand grenades. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.640 I know that people look at final scores, and there 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.840 were some final scores early in the season which looked 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.960 closer than they actually were. This last one looked worse 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.400 than it actually was. We were up ten and it 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.440 was this six or eight point game and you know, 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.520 kid actually from Wisconsin D two transfers are really good player, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.120 hit three threes late. Kind of that was that. But 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.200 we're starting to figure out how to play better defensively. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.240 We're playing a little bit different often, and I'm improving 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.200 as a coach in leaps and mountains, my use of timeouts, 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:10.960 my substitutions, all those other things. And look, I know 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:15.960 that that. You know, somebody with it has to be 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.200 like a black heart, or maybe they thought it was 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.360 just funny to do. They clipped the nobody you thing 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.120 and made it out like I was saying that about 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.680 one of our opponents, which was the opposite of what 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.280 I said. I knew our schedule was too difficult, right, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.200 like we needed in my first year to have at 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.680 least two games where we're playing traffic cones, you know, 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.800 just anything. And look at the schedules of other teams 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.160 in our league and everybody plays them, and we did not. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.280 It was a mistake, and you know our scheduling. But 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:50.080 the point is that between scheduling, who we take player wise, 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.080 assignments of roles on coaching staffs, my approach in the summer, 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.520 my approach in the fall, my approach during the games, 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.520 manipulation of the clock, manipulation of timeouts, substitution pattern, all 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:09.200 these things. I really am learning a ton and I 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.920 felt super comfortable early on. I've never felt uncomfortable, but 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.080 I also knew that I had a lot to learn. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.680 And you know, maybe the thing I've learned the most 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.440 is not just my staff's good. You can lean on 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.040 them and they're helpful, but you do need an old head. 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.280 You need somebody who's seen every war and seen everything. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.200 And you know, I've brought in several people to help 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.400 out during the year, but not fully on staff, and 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.360 that part is hard and is a miss and something 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.760 that I'll have to try to adjust to going forward. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.080 Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.680 Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.040 Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:55.480 It's good to be back on All Ball, and I 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.400 think you will love our guest because he went through 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.160 his own early struggles as a head coach. His name 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.880 is Jared Calhoun. He's the head coach at Utah State, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.480 the fifteen one of the year, having an unbelievable season, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.520 including beating Sandy Use State at San New State, which 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:16.479 never happens. Let's get to his journey and how he 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.800 went from being a player at Cleveland State to now 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.880 being the hottest head coach at Utah State. Here's my 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.200 conversation with Jared Calhoun before we get to your current 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:33.520 job or even the Youngstown job. How'd you get to 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:34.520 Cleveland State to play? 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.760 Yeah, you know, Doug, good question. I was a decent 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.680 high school player in the Cleveland area Villa Angelas Saint Jose, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:48.240 home of Clark Kellogg and numerous NBA guys and NFL guys, 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.719 played for a legendary coach in Ted Quasniak. I wanted 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.279 to get into coaching, Doug. I was really at about 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.400 the age of thirteen, I kind of knew I wanted 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.240 to coach college, and we had a legendary coach in 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.200 town by the name of Raleigh Massimino. Sure, you know, 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.039 I wanted to play for him, and I wanted to 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.160 learn from him. And you know, a lot of the 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.320 things we do away from the court, game planning, all 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.479 that stuff is from coach mas Aminos. So that that's 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.599 how I ended up in the conference that you're coaching 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:18.240 in right now. 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.720 So yeah, well it was so wait, thirteen, where were 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.880 you when you're thirteen? And why did you say? Because 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.919 I have my own story and we were telling it 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.919 today on radio, give me your thirteen year old story, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.600 and why you decided, Hey, this is what I want 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:30.800 to do. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.080 Yeah, you know, Doug, So, I grew up with a 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.480 guy named Maverick Carter. He and I became best friends. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:41.520 He's now running Lebron's Empire. Actually talked to him last night, man, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.840 just praying that the people in California are okay. He 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:46.719 woke up this morning not known if he had a 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:50.160 house that was standing up crazy. So we used to 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.360 go to the parks all the time and play, and 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.039 you know, just every weekend we were at the parks, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.400 and that's kind of how we grew up playing basketball. 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.200 And I just kind and knew that, you know, I 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.120 was gonna stay around basketball, and I knew I was 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.359 smart enough to realize I wasn't playing overseas for the NBA, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.400 and I just wanted to learn. So that's really kind 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.520 of why I went there. What was your experience, Like, 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.039 I loved it, very very difficult. I'll say this, Doug. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.520 You know I told you off air man, Uh, it 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.840 was rough as a player at Cleveland State. We didn't 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:25.320 win a ton. 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:26.320 Uh. 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.320 You learn a lot when you're struggling, So you know, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.880 all the haters that are that are hating on you, you're 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.720 gonna be just fine. I'm telling you. My first year 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:39.760 at Youngstown and my playing days at Cleveland Day were rough. 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.880 But you come out, you know, much better from some 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.360 of the struggle. And I think, you know, that's kind 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:46.480 of how you build your culture. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.760 I agree, I think, and you know, we'll get into 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.960 kind of some of these things I'm learning, but I 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.360 you know, I think the hardest thing is a player. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.599 I only went through one tough season as a player 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.080 my first year at Notre Dame and we were nine 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.440 and seventeen, and I had never been a part of 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.960 a losing program. And you know, part of it is, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.000 I'm sure you this way you played for I played 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.960 for legendary high school coach as well. You you don't 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:18.680 even think of the possibility of losing. Like I don't 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.720 remember a game even at Notre Dame that I didn't 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.480 go in thinking we're go win, you know. And this 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.320 was this is ninety five ninety six. So the Big 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.240 East had Yukon had ray Allen. They were number one 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.560 through three in the country. Nova had carried Kittle's they 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.360 were two in the country. We played them, you know, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.239 everybody had a dude. Syracuse was the fourth best team 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.800 and they went to the championship. No, they had John Wallace. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:49.400 This was the year that went to the championship game 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.840 against priduce Kentucky, and we had him. We're we have 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.480 them down fifteen at their place on senior night, their 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.320 senior night, but they just kind of turned it on 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.720 and beat us down six with the minute to go, 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.400 beat it and they beat us in the biggest tournament up. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.440 By my point was what was what do you remember 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.520 about the locker room? You're a player, team's not doing well. 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.040 What do you remember about that Cleveland State locker room. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.720 Yeah, you know, one thing that that really stood stood 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.600 out was, you know, there was a divide, right there 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.040 was some guys that were ready to quit. There were 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.560 some guys ready to still fight. We had a good 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:28.120 leader though, Coach mass got us to the finish line. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.960 We had good assistant coaches that stayed positive. So I 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.000 was always under the impression that we could turn it 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.160 at any time. Unfortunately, the last year it did not 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.480 work out, and coach Massamino got fired. But you know, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.560 just kind of a disjointed locker room, you know. And 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.559 so I've seen it as a player, and I saw 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.640 it my first two years of coaching, and you know, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:54.439 it can be tough, There's no doubt about it. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.360 And that's the craziest thing. I mean, you think about it. 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.040 Here's a guy who authors arguably or maybe inarguably, the 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.080 greatest upset in the history of national championship. So obviously 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.080 knows what he's doing. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.080 Yes, cle Thick fires him. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.240 It's like, you'd love to say it's his fault, but 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.920 I don't know, but it's his vault, right. It really 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:17.400 is the craziest profession and I heard I heard Eli 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.240 Manning say some one which resonated with me. He had 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.520 a year where he threw he led the league interceptions. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.200 And I was working for CBS at the time, and 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.600 I was working in New York, and I remember listening 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.000 to the interview with Francess and he said, like, you 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.959 do know him a better quarterback now than when I 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.280 won a Super Bowl, Like I know more, I see more, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.600 just you know, we just had a bad year. And 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.440 he didn't throw his teammates under the bus and say 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.560 what I thought I knew, which is like, look, when 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:46.880 you don't have as good a team, you gotta take 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.760 some more chances. That's when more turnovers take place. But 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.760 it is really interesting, like in coaching a guy who 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:57.600 everybody thinks knows what he's doing. Obviously great Gregaria's personality, 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:02.120 and yet UNLV State ends up getting let go after 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:08.200 after all that greatness at Villanova. And so it's not 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.280 like you can't coach it. Obviously was a lot of things, 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.439 and players are probably the biggest part. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.880 Of it, right, Yeah, I think you know, the players 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.840 are the lifeblood of the program. You know, I've been 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.400 head coach for thirteen years and We've only had two 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.600 losing seasons of those thirteen, so been very fortunate, Doug. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.200 They have a lot of good players. You know, been 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.920 at two places that historically have never really won a 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:36.240 lot of college basketball games, so been part of two 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.120 you know, kind of had to change the culture and 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.640 do those sorts of things. But yeah, I mean, I 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.720 think the players are so important nowadays, and you know 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.280 that's why we develop a leadership team and certain things 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.040 on our team because you know, it's a long season. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.760 As you know, it can really wear on you throughout 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:54.680 throughout a season. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.800 Okay, so you get done and you decide to go 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:01.880 and what be a grand assistant Cincinnati. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.560 Yeah, I was kind of a student assistant. I was 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.480 coaching AAU basketball and coach Huggins was recruiting two of 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.559 my players. Both kids ended up going to Ohio State, 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:13.760 so I said, all I'm out. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.000 Uh they went, Which got which players? 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.959 It was Jamar Butler and Matt Turwilliger. I coached these 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.200 kids in AU. I was the head coach. I had 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.079 a good little run with this team, and you know 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.080 it wasn't really a package deal, but I was going 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.640 to go there to finish up because my college coach 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.960 just got fired, and so I went to work with 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.079 Hugs for one year at Cincinnati as a student assistant, 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:40.800 and a guy on his staff, Dan Peters, got well, yeah, Dan, uh, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.320 you know, got me my start at Walsh University after 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.599 one year with coach Huggins, and it changed the trajectory 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.679 of my life. It was the greatest coaching experience at Walsh. 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.960 We won a national championship and I was an assistant 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:56.439 there and just thrown into the fire. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.240 What was it like? What? What's you know? Your right 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.439 out of college? Right and you're at Walsh. How big 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:05.120 a school is Walsh? 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.679 So we had about fifteen hundred students we were at 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.040 an AI. We ended up getting Robert Whaley transferred from 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.840 the University of Cincinnati, one of the last non Division 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.160 two guys to get drafted. It was my job to 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:20.880 make sure Robert did what he was supposed to do, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.880 and he did and we started to season Doug That year, 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.160 I believe we were seven and five and we never 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.000 lost the game. We won the Division two ANAI national championship. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.920 And I was the same age as the players. I 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.720 was twenty three. My high school point guard transferred in 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.200 from Akron that used to play with me, and we 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.680 took two Lebron James's buddies, Brandon Weams and now the 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.560 assistant general manager of the Cavs, and a kid named 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:50.080 Corey Jones, and off we went to win a national championship. 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:50.679 Was crazy. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.839 And then you circle back to work with Hugs later 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.520 at West Virginia, Right, yeah. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.360 Then I go back Doug to West Virginia as the 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:03.800 ops guy four years as director of basketball operations. Back then, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.760 you could not be on the court, right, So you're 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.760 doing a lot of administrative work, You're doing tickets, you know, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.720 just doing a lot of different things. And then the 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.080 fifth year, he moved me up. And then I thought 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.200 I'd probably never leave unless it was a Division one opportunity. 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:20.719 But I took a real, real chance, and I took 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.360 a Division two job twenty five minutes down the road. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.559 And you know, we had five unbelievable seasons at Fairmont State, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.240 and I had a great staff, and you know, I 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.880 had Joe mazzoul on staff and various guys that are 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.000 now doing really well, and it was just an unbelievable run. 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:40.920 Okay, before we get to Fairmont, Okay, you're an opsky 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.880 My brother's first job at Standing the State with Steve 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.480 Fisher was the opsky as well, where he grew to 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.840 be in a full ton of system. What was it 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.560 like to be in Huggs ops guy? Like? What what 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.720 were his specific things that he wanted for travel for example? 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.360 Yeah, I mean there was there was quite a bit. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.280 We had a very very you know, strict menu. He 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.600 wanted a variety of food on the trips, so we 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.719 would have an Italian night, a barbecue knight, burger night. 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.480 I tried to keep them guessing on on the menu 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:15.839 the way we traveled, right. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:16.280 Uh. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.840 You know when we got to the hotel, we were 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.280 going to do certain things, you know, stretch film when 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.880 we had recruits in, you know, what what were things 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.800 going to look like, whether it was the locker room, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.520 whether it was back then you could put the things 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.040 in the hotel rooms, you know. So I really learned, 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:34.280 you know, by the. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.640 Way, by the way, by the way, I mean, listen, 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.920 I understand, I'm not one of these guys that kills 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:44.880 the NCAA. But we can pay players now, we can pay. 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.920 Them whatever we want to pay them, and yet we 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:55.120 cannot leave special things for them inside their hotel rooms 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:56.080 on a visit. 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.160 Well, Doug, you don't know. Yeah, it's we could. 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.960 We could literally pay them whatever we want, but we 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.960 can't leave like I wanted to. I wanted to leave 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.680 some cheeseheads, you know, and get a packer's jersey and 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.160 a name on the back of it. I thought this 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.080 would be a really cool thing to like, coach, we 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:13.760 can't do that. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.680 Yeah, it's you had a great you had a great episode. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:20.640 I've listened to quite a few of your shows. You 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.680 don't realize, but I'm a big fan of yours. When 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.960 you kind of you kind of talked about all this 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.720 stuff in the NIL and the ability to you know, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.800 it's just it's crazy times, you know. And now the 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.560 Juco rule and now the extra year. The rules have 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.560 changed so much, Doug. Every day I can't keep track 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.160 of it. I mean, I feel like I'm calling my 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.480 compliance guy daily to keep up. But back then there 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.960 were a lot of rules. You know, there was a 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:51.120 ton of rules. So it certainly has changed, and it's crazy. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.120 Well, listen, my ops guy is Dennis Harrington, and he 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.160 finally came. I said, we actually found a really good 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.760 a really good hotel right on the water in Cincinnati. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.760 We played Right State and I and and the food 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.120 was good, the rooms were good, rooms were big, and 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.760 it was it was a good adavoid des I know though, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.880 like being the dobo is the most thankless job because 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.040 it's it's a little bit like you know that room 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.200 inside uh where you if you don't get your baggage 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.720 at an airport, there's that little room you got to 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.440 go to and you gotta, you know, tell them what 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.880 your bag looks like and fill a lot of paperwork whatever. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.440 No one ever goes in that room and says, hey, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.400 great job, I got my bag, thank you. You know, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.400 they only come in there to complain. That's kind of 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:44.960 the dobo. No one ever goes like, hey, flight was 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.680 there on time, food was hot. Thanks. So if you can, 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.080 if you can, be a dobo, especially for hugs. Right 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.640 a little the older we get, the more particular we get. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.840 You've obviously obviously earned your stripe. Okay, so Fairmont State, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.760 how'd you get the job? Forget about the job? So 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:03.680 how'd you get the job? 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.439 Yeah? I mean I went through the interview process. You know, 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.960 there was they said, over one hundred guys that interviewed 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.439 for this job. It had great tradition, Doug. It was 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:19.320 literally twenty five thirty minutes from you know, Morgantown, West Virginia. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:24.840 Nice gym needed upgraded. So really just sold a vision 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.400 of how we were going to get it back. We're 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.160 going to get into the community. We raised a ton 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:30.720 of money. I had a lot of ties to a 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.320 lot of the people in the state, and I think 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.480 most of them thought I was nuts wanting the job, 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.840 but I wanted to be a head coach. I was 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.720 ready to call my own timeouts, run my own program. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.359 I didn't care what level it was, and it was 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.000 the best gamble that I ever made. I took a 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.080 thirty thousand dollars pay raise. We got there the next 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:52.679 day after the press conference to practice, and there was 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:55.879 everything was set up from the night before, Doug, so 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.199 we couldn't even practice. We had to take down the 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.320 stage the podium, and I looked at my guy that 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.760 came with me, and I said, what did I just do? Right? 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:07.040 Like? 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.760 They didn't have practice for ready to go? And I 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.720 soon learned we didn't have all the help we had 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.560 at West Virginia, but it teaches you how to grind, 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.120 how to work, and then we got a great staff. 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.480 You know, we just kept getting better and better each year. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.520 What was what was the secret? Like, what's the secret, 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.719 sauce to your ability to build that culture so quickly? 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.040 Yeah, I think it really is the time we spend 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.959 with the guys, Doug. You know, we do leadership meetings 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:40.480 every Monday, so I bring in the three captains of 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.440 my team. I've done this for a very long time, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.000 and I first thing I say is what can I 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:48.320 do better? How can we be better? Who's struggling? There's 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.200 going to be two or three players on every team 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.359 that are really in the tank and struggling. How can 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.480 I help those guys? Are you guys happy with the food? 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.800 Are you guys happy with the massage? Therapy? You know? 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.520 What about practice? This is what our week looks like. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:05.000 So I've always done it from like a collaborative effort 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.960 with the players and empowered those guys. And I have 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.840 felt that with this generation, this generation, Doug is so 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.000 different than how you and I came up. They want 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:16.560 to know the why. So I give it to him 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.200 early in the week and I think it's just been uh, 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.240 you know. Then we've transformed our offense. You know, we've 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.480 played fast, We've played free, We've played with space. You know, 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.080 I learned a lot from from you know, coach Missoula 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.320 and studying the game, and then we stole the matchup 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.280 zone from Northern Kentucky and you know here it's been tremendous. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.840 Let's let's get to Let's get to Joe. Yeah, I 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.320 mean just a really kind of fascinating his own kind 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.959 of trajectory and brain. First time you met Joie Missoula 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:51.440 was wearing went well. 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:55.199 I coached him at West Virginia. You know, he was 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.920 this this relationship coast back a long way. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:58.239 Uh. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:19:59.919 You know, I was the best man in his wedding. 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.200 He was on my staff for three years. We go 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:06.680 on you know, family vacations together. You know. His dad 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.800 was just dynamite. I mean he kep drive from from 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.280 Rhode Island in the middle of the night, go to 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.560 the game, sleep, go back the next day. I mean, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:19.080 just an interesting guy. But Joe had a fire. You 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.480 know as a player, Doug, you could see it. You know, 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.960 he really just transformed his life after college. He really 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.359 devoted his life to God. He just grew grew so much, 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.440 you know, spiritually basketball wise. I saw the change after 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:39.920 year two, and I encouraged him. We shared an office, right, 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:42.560 so our office was like a closet at Fairmont State. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:47.000 So the number of ideas that we had were just ridiculous. 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.960 I mean, both of us never stop with ideas. We're 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.120 probably not great for each other. We wanted to reinvent 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.240 the game of basketball, and we laughed because neither one 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.960 of us was very good back then. But we just 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.960 developed a great relationship and threw things off of each other. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.840 And you know, I just people ask me all the 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.200 time and with interviews and stuff. When he won the title, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:11.040