1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm Honey from and I'm Tracy be Wilson. So Tracy, 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: we're going to continue, yes, the story we started last time. 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: We're going to pick up on the the Irish potato 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: famine and to recap just a little bit in the 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds. The social and political climate that we 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: talked about in the previous episode had led Ireland to 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: depend really heavily on the potato as a food crop. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: The poorest people in Ireland ate almost nothing but potatoes, 11 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: and anything that was anything else that was being grown 12 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: on a farm wasn't really being raised to eat. It 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: was being raised to sell to pay the rent. So 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: potatoes were filling bellies and everything else was paying for 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: the land that you were living on. So when a 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: blite cut just a huge swath through the potato crop 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: in eighty five and almost wiped it out in highrely 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty six, the impact on Ireland was severe. 19 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: So in this episode we're going to look at how 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: this intersection of politics and farming unfolded. So in eighteen 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: forty six, when the blight was in full swing. The 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: British government's response was minimal. In the government's less a 23 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: fair view and that of many landowners who had holdings 24 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: in Ireland, all of the obvious relief measures like providing 25 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: food or subsidies were counterproductive. They would threaten free enterprise 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: and cause the Irish to become dependent upon government handouts. 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: The government's desire not to influence free enterprise also meant 28 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: that it didn't want to meddle in other business affairs, 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: like the practice of exporting grain out of Ireland and 30 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: into England. Instead, it was pretty much business as usual, 31 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: so food exporters in Ireland, many of whom were owned 32 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: by people living in England, just kept exporting food as normal. 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: So when the potato crops died, Irish farmers kept selling 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: all their other crops to pay the rent. The choice 35 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: was one of starvation or eviction. Uh the people who 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: owned the farms would then export the other crops out 37 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: of Ireland, So throughout the famine, Ireland continued exporting grains, rabbits, butter, fish, onions, 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: honey and other foods, along with nonfood items like woolen leathers, 39 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: so they were sending food away while they were starving 40 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: to death. So weather stopping these exports and distributing this 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: food to Irish farmers would have stopped the famine is 42 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: a hotly contested subject. Some scholars argue that the potato 43 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: made up so much of the Irish food supply that 44 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: no amount of other food grown there could have possibly 45 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: filled that gap. But regardless, shipping food out of Ireland 46 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: while people were starving looked really bad. There were riots 47 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: and ports cities in response to the shiploads of food 48 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: that were living leaving Ireland bound for England. River boats 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: and ports were appointed military guards. And really, even if 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: keeping the food in Ireland would have been a feudal effort, 51 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: this continued export was really deeply damaging to the relationship 52 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: between England and Ireland. People scavenged what they could eat 53 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: and they sold their belongings to try to pay for food. 54 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: Even in coastal areas where fish were plentiful, the fish 55 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: were generally in water that was too deep and treacherous 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: for people to reach in their small boats with ordinary nts. 57 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: That winter, which is the winter of eighteen forty six, 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 1: also saw one of the worst blizzards in Ireland's history, 59 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: with snow reaching the roof lines of people's huts. By 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: eighteen forty seven, it had become clear that this was 61 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: not just a temporary situation that was going to be 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: relieved by the next year's harvest. Even though the blight 63 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: did disappear that year. The eight forty seven crop was healthy, 64 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: but not enough had been planted in the spring to 65 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: sustain everyone. People had resorted to eating the potatoes they 66 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: would have normally reserved for replanting, and many were so 67 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: weakened by hunger and illness that they weren't able to 68 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: get their crops in the ground. While many people wanted 69 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: to plant something other than potatoes, at this point, seeds 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: for new crops were often beyond their means, so they 71 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: planted what they could get, which was mostly potatoes. Britain 72 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: opened soup kitchens to help get food to needy people, 73 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,839 Speaker 1: and the death toll did start to drop a little bit, 74 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: but the kitchens didn't last for very long. Parliament enacted 75 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: the Irish Poor Law Extension Act on June eighty seven, 76 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: which once again moved the British government away from providing 77 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: direct aid to the Irish. Under this act, it was 78 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: up to the Irish landlords to support their impoverished tenants. 79 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: Government soup kitchens were scheduled to be closed and they 80 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: had only existed for about six months, and the public 81 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: works programs that were meant to support the Irish were 82 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: shut down. The Poor Law Extension Act also made it 83 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 1: a lot harder for people to enter one of Britain's workhouses, 84 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: which at this point was a last refuge for the 85 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: destitute farmers. Britain had created the system of workhouses in 86 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty eight. There were a hundred and thirty of them, 87 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: which could accommodate about a hundred thousand people. Once they 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: arrived at a workhouse, families were divided up and giving 89 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: given separate housing for women and men, and they wore uniforms, 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: they weren't allowed to leave the building, and they worked 91 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: for ten hour days. The youngest children would get school 92 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: lessons and older children would get training on how to 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: work in a factory. These workhouses were dirty and demoralizing, 94 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: and illnesses spread really quickly in such tight quarters. And 95 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: apart from all of this, the whole idea of going 96 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: to a workhouse was just an extreme humiliation which made 97 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: people really reluctant to do it. But even so, conditions 98 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: were so bad in Ireland the workhouses were quickly strained 99 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: at the breaking point. The government implemented stricter and stricter 100 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: rules about who could go to a workhouse in a 101 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: in an attempt to stem the tide, and under the 102 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: new Poor Laws, men had to give up any other 103 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: means of making a living if they wanted to enter 104 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: a workhouse. So two point six million Irish people went 105 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: to the institutions during the famine, so they were hugely 106 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: vastly overcrowded. Conditions were, on top of being overcrowded, just 107 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: very dirty and difficult, and more than two hundred thousand 108 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: people died in the workhouses that were meant to help them. 109 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: By eighteen forty seven. The problem was actually money. Thanks 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: to the healthy but very small potato crop, there was 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 1: plenty of food, but nobody had money to buy it 112 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: or to pay the rent on the land. Even the 113 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: British government was having financial problems because it had been 114 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: hit by a banking crisis. Landlords who didn't want to 115 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: be saddled with supporting their tenants as was required under 116 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: the Poor Laws, or didn't have the money to do 117 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: so because it's had It's had a trickle up effect. 118 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: People who couldn't pay their rent meant that the landlords 119 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: also had no money. A lot of them chose to 120 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: evict people who couldn't pay the rent. About half a 121 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: million Irish people were evicted during the famine. Often the 122 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: male head of the household would go to jail for 123 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: non payment of his rent, and the rest of family 124 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: would just be left homeless. Many families, once they got 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: a notice of their impending eviction, chose to flee rather 126 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: than standing trial for this reason, or landlords would pay 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: for their tenants to be transported to British North America, 128 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: primarily Quebec Canada, on ships that were so poorly made, overcrowded, 129 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: and disease written that they were actually nicknamed coffin chips. 130 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: Following eighteen forty seven's healthy but small harvest, many people 131 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: were hopeful that Ireland had turned a corner. You know. 132 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: People kept thinking that this was just a temporary thing 133 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: and that one more good harvest would would fix the problem. 134 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: But people had spent the very last of their money 135 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: getting a potato crop into the ground to support themselves 136 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: for the following year, and then in again thanks to 137 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: wet weather conditions. The blight came back and uh the English, 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: not understanding why the Irish had planted potatoes instead of 139 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: something else, demanded that the Irish pay for their own relief, 140 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: so taxes were actually increased on farmers and landlords. For 141 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: Irish farmers, this was really the last straw, and immigration 142 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: out of Ireland began in earnest. People had been immigrating 143 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: from Ireland in the years before the famine, so immigrating 144 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: was not a new thing. In particular, young men had 145 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: gone to United States to work as manual labors, and 146 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: American companies would advertise for workers in Irish cities. In 147 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: the years before the famine. Between eighteen fifteen and eighteen 148 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: forty five, nearly a million Irish people had gone to America. 149 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: For the sake of comparison, that's about half as many 150 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: as left Ireland in the ten years between eighteen forty 151 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: five and eighteen fifty five, which are thought of as 152 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: the famine years. But the immigration during the famine was different, 153 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: both in scale and just in sheer awfulness. On the 154 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: coffin ships to Canada, the trip could take up to 155 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: three months. The people aboard were so sick by the 156 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: time they arrived. The quarantine facility in Quebec ran out 157 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: of room, leading to a backlog that kept the passengers 158 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: on newly arrived ships from being able to disembark, so 159 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: the ships would just sit there in port with sick 160 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: and dying and deceased people aboard. Eventually, quarantine and inspection 161 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: procedures were abandoned and the passengers were allowed to go 162 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: on their way, meaning that the Irish people arriving at 163 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: various cities in Canada were extremely ill, They were homeless, 164 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: and they were destitute. So many sick people arrived in 165 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Quebec that there was a typhus epidemic in Canada, which 166 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: came directly from the influx of immigrants from Ireland. In 167 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: eighteen forty seven, about a hundred thousand people sailed from 168 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: Ireland to Canada, and about twenty percent of them died 169 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: from disease or malnutrition. Those who could afford it went 170 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: instead to the United States, mostly to the port cities 171 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: of New York, Boston, Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans, where 172 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: for the most part they faced illness, poverty, discrimination and bigotry, 173 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: and intense competition for unskilled jobs. And in New York, 174 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: Irish common who built them out of their money in 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: exchange for a filthy place to stay. Yeah, basically, New 176 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: York had been, of course, one of the most common 177 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: ports of entry for people immigrating from Ireland, so people 178 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: who were getting off the boats during the blight would 179 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: be greeted by what seemed to be a friendly face 180 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: who spoke their language, and that would in fact be 181 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: a person who was going to steal all their money. 182 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: Not so delightful. No, there's a point at some at 183 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: some point in my outline. Previously there was just and 184 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: did you think it was going to stop getting worse? 185 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: Because it's just going to get worse. So the United 186 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: States was also not really on board with the idea 187 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,119 Speaker 1: of becoming home to a bunch of really sick Irish immigrants, 188 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: so fairs to the United States from Ireland became way 189 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: more expensive, and ports along the East Coast started requiring 190 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: bonds from the captains of the ship to guarantee that 191 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: their passages were not going to become dependent on the 192 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: government to live. And it wasn't just a matter of 193 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: jacking affairs. The US law had laws regulating the number 194 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: of passengers a ship could hold and the ship's accommodations. 195 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: They were way more strict and more strictly enforced than 196 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,599 Speaker 1: British laws, which meant that the voyage was more expensive 197 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: to begin with. So you were more likely to survive 198 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: the ship on a on a ship that was going 199 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: to America because of these laws than a ship going 200 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: to Canada, but it also cost a lot more. It 201 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: was much harder to get on those ships. The people 202 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: who had enough money to flee but not enough money 203 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: to get to the United States or Canada would instead 204 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 1: try to immigrate to England, with Liverpool, Glasgow and South 205 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: Wales being common destinations. But this trip, while it was 206 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: definitely a whole lot shorter, wasn't necessarily safer. There was 207 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: one ship that arrived in liver in Liverpool with seventy 208 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: two dead aboard after the captain battoned the hatches and 209 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: a storm and the people inside the deeply overcrowded ships. 210 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: Suffolk aided and while the hope was that at least 211 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: in England people wouldn't starve, Irish immigrants quickly overwhelmed the cities. 212 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: In Liverpool, for example, Irish immigrants more than doubled the 213 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: population of the city and exhausted the relief services. On 214 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: June twenty one, eighteen forty seven, in an attempt to 215 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: relieve Liverpool of just this insurmountable population explosion, the British 216 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: government passed a law that allowed Irish people to be 217 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: deported back to Ireland. In general, what would happen is 218 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: these people would be abandoned on the docks once they 219 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: were returned to Ireland, where like we've said before, they 220 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: had no home and no money. Similar laws were enacted 221 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: in other English cities that had a big influx of 222 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: Irish immigrants. So even after the blight disappeared, the famine 223 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: had so completely changed the political and ethnic landscape in Ireland, England, 224 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: and even much in North America. The American immigrant population 225 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: became overwhelmingly Irish really quickly, and non Irish Americans, who 226 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: associated Irish people with poverty and disease, shiftlessness, and still 227 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: pretty distrusted Catholicism, carried a lot of anti Irish prejudice. 228 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: Deep anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiment remained until the 229 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: Civil War, when the tide started to turn a little 230 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: as Irish fighting units proved themselves to be both brave 231 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: and dependable and Irish laborers filled a need for workers. 232 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: After the war was over, and eventually Irish Catholics found 233 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: that they could influence local politics by voting. Irish Catholics 234 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: made their way into public office and started influencing public policy, 235 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: which made life for Irish immigrants a little easier in 236 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: the United States. Back in Ireland, during the Blights aftermath, 237 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: the economy was still in dire straits. Landowners were deeply 238 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: in debt, and many sold their land just to get 239 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: out from under it. This lieutenant farmers who had been 240 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: working that land homeless. Ireland's recovery continued to just be 241 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: really slow after the famine was gone um, both because 242 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: of the sudden population drop and the consequent drop in 243 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: how much farm labor was available uh and the economic 244 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: fallout from the famine. It's hard to make precise estimates 245 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: of exactly how bad the final death toll was. Census 246 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: records at the time weren't super precise, but the most 247 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: commonly cited statistics are that one million people died. Most 248 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: didn't die of starvation, but of diseases like relapsing fever, typhus, dysentery, 249 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: and cholera, hunger, made people more susceptible, and poverty and 250 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: overcrowning cause these diseases to spread rapidly. Another about two 251 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: million people left Ireland as are a direct result of 252 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: the famine, with most of them heading to England, Canada 253 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: or the United States. The population was about eight point 254 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: four million people in Ireland in eighteen forty four. That 255 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: had fallen to six point six million in eighteen fifty one, 256 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: and in the end that the years thought of as 257 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: the Famine years I saw a drop in the Irish 258 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: population by twenty and the population actually continued to drop 259 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: in the aftermath, so that when Ireland gained independence in 260 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: its population was actually half of what it was before 261 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: the famine began. Debate about how to interpret the government's 262 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: response to the famine continues today. On the one hand, 263 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: is the nationalist review that the government could have made 264 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: better choices and is pretty much responsible for the huge 265 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: death toll. The revisionist view is more sympathetic to the 266 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: government and the landlords, and it takes the opposite stance 267 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: and the most extreme national nationalist view, this famine wasn't 268 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: really a famine, it was genocide. That's not that doesn't 269 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,479 Speaker 1: gain a lot of traction in the world of academia. 270 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: But it is a view that a lot of people 271 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: take that because a lot of the policy was so 272 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,359 Speaker 1: anti Irish that what was happening was the deliberate extermination 273 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: of Irish people through the tool of hunger. Because of 274 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: the famine and the blight was actually identified what this 275 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: disease had actually been in May of as a probably 276 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: now extinct strain of uh Phytopthora infestants, which is native 277 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: to South America and Mexico, had almost certainly came to 278 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: Ireland aboard ships from Mexico having contaminated other crops, and 279 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: it completely changed their history forever. It did it and 280 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: consequently the history of other countries as well, right and 281 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: it's it became sort of the hallmark of more recent 282 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: Irish history. Like Iron, Ireland has had a lot of 283 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: unhappy events in its history um and the potato famine 284 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: is cited as one that just had a deep and 285 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: long lasting effect on everything about Ireland, and there are 286 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: there's a whole body of literature that draws directly from 287 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: the famin Um. When you talk to people who live 288 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: in the United States who have Irish family, a lot 289 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: of people will say that's when my grandparents came to 290 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: the United States, or that's when my great grandparents came 291 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: to the United States. And yet a lot of the 292 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: education about it, it begins and ends with potatoes and 293 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: they died. Yeah, it's pretty quick. I mean, we really 294 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: don't get that much in depth in it. Well, and 295 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: some of that is because some of the classroom discussions 296 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: on the famine are in sort of the late elementary 297 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: and middle school years, uh, and it's, you know, getting 298 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: into all the political complex complexity surrounding it is maybe 299 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: not quite appropriate for that age level. But even so, considering, 300 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: you know, you and I live in the United States, 301 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: considering what a huge effect the famine had on the 302 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: demographics of the United States and politics and religion and 303 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: all of that kind of thing, it seems a little 304 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: weird that there's not a more through uh discussion of 305 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: it later on in the later school years. Do you 306 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: also have more listener mail for us? This listener mail 307 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: is from Vivian and it's another about the Hendenburg. Vivian says, 308 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your podcast on the Hendenburg because since 309 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: I was a child, I've always loved the story of 310 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: the Hendburg, which sounds a little odd to say, considering 311 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: the whole disaster. I'm just gonna pigure minded ease. I 312 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: also found many strange and disastrous things fascinating as a child, 313 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,239 Speaker 1: so I do not think you should feel odd about that. 314 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: So back to the letter. During light reading from years 315 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: ago that I now can't remember, someone pointed towards the 316 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: Hendenburg disaster as a catalyst for World War two. I 317 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: was wondering if you guys found any connections about this, um, 318 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: And the answer is really probably not. UM. There was 319 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: definitely a really big investigation into Handenberg to rule out sabotage, 320 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: since because it was a German airship with the note 321 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: swastikas on it, right, it seemed like a pretty prime 322 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: target or attack by anti German or anti Nazi groups. Uh. 323 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: The idea that it was sabotage or a deliberate attack 324 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: seems like a pretty believable scenario. UM. But even after 325 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: Vivian's question, when I went to look again to see 326 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: if I could find any connections between those two things, 327 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: not really from any reputable source. There are a couple 328 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: of kind of I'm sure there are theories and historical 329 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: theorists that talk about it as a potential element for 330 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: some kind of conspiracy theory ideas about it. Um, but 331 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: the Hannenberg went down about two years before the war started, 332 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: and the investigation didn't turn up evidence of sabotage or 333 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: any kind of deliberate attack. And while there were definitely 334 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: many factors that played into the start of World War two, 335 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: um Hitler's invasion of other nations. I think it gets 336 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: like the big Yeah, that the biggest part, But I 337 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: guess share think, yeah, where the world came from. By comparison, 338 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: the explosion of the Hainburgh is a much smaller tail 339 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: in history. If you would like to write to us, 340 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: you can do so at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. 341 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook at facebook dot com, slash history 342 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: class Stuff, and on Twitter at Miston History. We are 343 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: on Tumbler at Miston History dot tumbler dot com, and 344 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: we have a pinboard on Pinterest. If you would like 345 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: to learn a little more about the subject we've talked 346 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: about today, you can go to our website and put 347 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: the word famine in the search bar. You will find 348 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: the article how famine Works. You can learn a lot 349 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: more about this and all sorts of other events in 350 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: history at our website, which is how stuff works dot com. 351 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, how 352 00:20:47,640 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. 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