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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, Ed, and welcome back to the Book of

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Speaker 2: Joe podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's me Tom Verducci and of course Joe Madden and

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Speaker 3: I am kind at you from Orlando, Florida and the

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Speaker 3: Baseball Winter Meetings Joe wasn't a signing festival of free agents,

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Speaker 3: but we did have some moves and seemed like it

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Speaker 3: was the top of the market with some of the

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Speaker 3: bigger teams. And let me start out with one of

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Speaker 3: your former guys, Kyle Schwarber. Not a surprise that Kyle

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Speaker 3: re signs with the Philadelphia Phillies five years, one hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty million dollars. There are some surprises to the

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Speaker 3: negotiations there. But give you your first thought when you

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Speaker 3: heard that Kyle was going back after he was in

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Speaker 3: play for a bunch of teams, and why not after

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Speaker 3: hitting fifty six home runs?

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Speaker 4: As it should be. We've talked about this, I think previously.

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Speaker 5: It's very belongs.

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Speaker 4: I think you know, you have all the different things

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Speaker 4: about Cincinnati and these other groups, Pittsburgh, whatever, you know,

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Speaker 4: just knowing Schwerbs, it didn't make any sense. This is

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Speaker 4: a real loyal fellow. He loves being there. I think

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Speaker 4: he feels like there's unfinished business there. And of course

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Speaker 4: the dollars in years were probably right on the money.

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Speaker 4: I thought, you know, maybe four times forty, but then

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Speaker 4: it came down what five times thirty I mean, which

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Speaker 4: is still pretty good stuff, right, So anyway, I was

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Speaker 4: not surprised whatsoever. Again, I'm happy for him at Page.

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Speaker 4: It's the perfect landing spot for him. And honestly, I

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Speaker 4: think the Phillies need him more than he needs them.

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Speaker 4: So so I think it was Dave Dobroski doing Dave

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Speaker 4: Dombrowski kind of a thing. He understands the value with

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Speaker 4: what he does, not only on the field, but what

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Speaker 4: he does in the clubhouse, et cetera, and in the community.

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Speaker 4: You know, Philadelphia fans not easy. It's not an easy group.

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Speaker 4: And and he looks he looks good on them, and

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Speaker 4: they look good on him the same vice versa. Things

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Speaker 4: It just had made all the sense.

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Speaker 5: In the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. I didn't think he was going

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Speaker 2: anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: As you mentioned, his connection to the city, not just

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Speaker 3: the team, is really strong. There's nothing Kyle wants more.

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Speaker 3: And you know this Joe better than anybody than to win.

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Speaker 3: He's a guy who wants to win, pure and simple. Now,

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Speaker 3: this is part of being a pro. You have free agency,

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Speaker 3: you negotiate, you see what's out there. I never thought

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Speaker 3: he was leaving Philadelphia, so good on them. A couple

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Speaker 3: of things I want to run by you here. Number one,

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Speaker 3: A couple of teams interested in Kyle Schwerber, the Pittsburgh

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Speaker 3: Pirates and the Baltimore Orioles. Now, I was told Joe

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Speaker 3: that both teams were at the same level five years,

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Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty million dollars, and the Pirates actually

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Speaker 3: indicated they were willing to go even the one sixty five.

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Speaker 3: The Pittsburgh Pirates. I mean, it's groundbreaking that a Senate

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Speaker 3: can say, Listen, they knew they weren't going to get

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Speaker 3: the player.

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Speaker 2: Listen. As it turned out, it's probably true.

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Speaker 3: But I love the fact that Pittsburgh made I believe

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Speaker 3: an honest effort. Listen to clock is ticking on their

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Speaker 3: time with Paul Skeins. You know, four years left. They'll

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Speaker 3: probably trade him with one where you left on the contract.

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Speaker 3: We'll see about all that, but they need to step

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Speaker 3: up and pick up the payroll and who better to

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Speaker 3: have if your team trying to learn how to win

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Speaker 3: than a glue guy like Kye Schwarber. So I like

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Speaker 3: that deal, and I like the fact that Baltimore as

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Speaker 3: well has some money to play with here and new

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Speaker 3: ownership there seems to indicate that, yeah, they're a player.

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Speaker 5: Now. Well, I mean, I agree with what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: I just think enough Tony Soprano or Don Corleone right here,

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Speaker 4: you just got to make him an offer you can't

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Speaker 4: refuse if you really you know you're at this Schmes.

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Speaker 4: I mean, listen, they got to make you have to

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Speaker 4: like overpay dramatically I think right there, in order to

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Speaker 4: really set some kind of an example. It's nice, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's almost like the amelioration of the fan base that Okay,

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Speaker 4: we tried and listen, I get it.

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Speaker 5: It's not my money, that's it. I understand.

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Speaker 4: However, if you really believe this guy's going to make

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Speaker 4: that kind of difference, you walk in the room and

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Speaker 4: see what it's going to take. I think, I mean

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Speaker 4: another twenty million. I don't know if you truly believe that,

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Speaker 4: you know, got this shorter, smaller window with schemes and

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Speaker 4: you think this is the kind of guy or one

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Speaker 4: of the the absolute pieces of this puzzle that's.

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Speaker 5: Going to make you get over the top.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you might have to do something industry wide that

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Speaker 4: people don't like. You say, it's crazy, Why do you

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Speaker 4: do that? Well, because we needed to. We had to

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Speaker 4: in order to get to this next level that we're seeking.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I saw that. I read what you're talking

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Speaker 4: about specifically, and my thought is, you know the fact

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Speaker 4: that the numbers were real equal with the final offer

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Speaker 4: with the Phillies. Dang, I just I just got to

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Speaker 4: go back and say, listen, guys, what are we doing here?

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Speaker 4: And is this Do we really mean what we're saying

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Speaker 4: right here? Do we really want to get into this

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Speaker 4: other league with the big boys? Then I think you

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Speaker 4: just got to make a ridiculous offer.

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Speaker 2: I do well, I don't disagree with you there.

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Speaker 3: It reminds me of when the Washington Nationals stepped up

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Speaker 3: and got Jason Worth. Remember that people were like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: are they doing They're not ready to win and they

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Speaker 3: did overpay.

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Speaker 2: But that's what you have to do.

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Speaker 3: When you're a team that does not have a track

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Speaker 3: record winning and you're trying to win, what's the attraction there,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be money at that point. So in theory,

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Speaker 3: I agree with your premise. I think, specifically in this

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Speaker 3: case with Kyleege Schwarber, I don't think what they put

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Speaker 3: on the table is going to convince him to go

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Speaker 3: to Pittsburgh on the belief that they're going to contend.

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Speaker 3: This guy lives for the postseason. To me and the

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Speaker 3: comfort level in Philly, I think with this guy. With

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Speaker 3: most guys, I agree with you. The money talks, and

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Speaker 3: we break down a lot of these players based on

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Speaker 3: where they grew up.

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Speaker 2: Where they played in college.

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Speaker 3: You know, friends on the team, the agent's representatives, with

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Speaker 3: friendship with people in the front office. Let's not get ourselves.

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Speaker 3: It usually comes down to the best offer. I don't

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Speaker 3: think they could have bought Kyle Schwarber's loyalty if you

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Speaker 3: will away from Philly in this case.

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Speaker 5: You know, and I'm not disagreeing with that, but I

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Speaker 5: had to try.

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Speaker 4: I mean aggressing a big Going back in time, when

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Speaker 4: I first got to the Angels, everyone is after Garrett Cole,

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Speaker 4: and of course he is all that and he's that good.

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Speaker 4: But there was another guy out in the market that

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Speaker 4: was Zach Wheeler. Who I was really infatuated with. I

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Speaker 4: thought he was like, I can't even you know. He

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Speaker 4: was just a click below de Gram and he had

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Speaker 4: been heard at that time. There was a lot of

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Speaker 4: concerned about that. But I thought they threw the ball

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Speaker 4: in a very similar fashion where they just wound up easily.

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Speaker 4: The ball jumped out of their hand. It was like

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Speaker 4: was on a conveyor belt and it just exploded towards

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Speaker 4: home play. My point is that, Mike, my argument was

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Speaker 4: at that time that if we could sign Wheeler first,

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Speaker 4: that gives you a better chance of signing a Garrett

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Speaker 4: Cole because then all of a sudden, Garrett Cole believes

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Speaker 4: that the Angels are really trying, They're doing something differently here.

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Speaker 4: It could make a difference if we do this and

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Speaker 4: then it opens the other free agent's eyes. Hey, maybe

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Speaker 4: there is something here that is a different and that

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Speaker 4: is attractive to me. Now having been in part of

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Speaker 4: the process and going to Wheeler's house and Georgia, it

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Speaker 4: was obvious that pretty obvious that it wasn't gonna happen.

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Speaker 4: Billy up or have got that from the beginning, and

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Speaker 4: Billy was right. However, my point is the guy like

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Speaker 4: Schwerber if in fact, you want to build to this

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Speaker 4: point and you'd have to sell it to Kyle. Listen,

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Speaker 4: you're you're the first Domino man. Once we get you, now,

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Speaker 4: are really going to be able to attract these other

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Speaker 4: fellows that could put this thing together. Pittsburgh to me

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Speaker 4: one of the traditionally great franchises as a kid growing

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Speaker 4: up from Pennsylvania. They weren't my team, but they were

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Speaker 4: kind of like my second or third team. I love

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Speaker 4: their uniforms. Leverberta Clemente, a guy by name of Elroy, Face,

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Speaker 4: Bob Friend, Dick Roa did shortstop. There was an attract

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Speaker 4: on this there, man. And then you know, of course

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Speaker 4: in the late seventies Chuck Tanner put them together and

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden that we are family. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot to love to the Burg, the city itself, there's

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Speaker 4: a lot.

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Speaker 5: It really is. So I'm just saying.

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Speaker 4: I if I'm running the Pirates, I'm selling all this stuff, man,

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Speaker 4: I'm selling it all and whatever. Listen, Kyle, we want

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Speaker 4: you here as this centerpiece, and once we land you,

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Speaker 4: we really believe we're going to make a solid attempt

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Speaker 4: to sign these other pieces around you.

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Speaker 5: To make this viable. Maybe not this year.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna have to, you know, possibly make a you know,

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Speaker 4: some noise here and start building it. But you're the

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Speaker 4: guy that's here. You are, You're the cornerstone that's going

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Speaker 4: to build the whole thing. So again, I'm not saying

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Speaker 4: it would have ever happened. I don't even maybe that

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Speaker 4: was part of the conversation.

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Speaker 5: I don't know that. But I like Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I just like the city itself and whatever,

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Speaker 4: and I see a lot going on. Schwarbss a Cincinnati guy, Ohio,

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Speaker 4: I'm not far removed. You know, There's there's some some connection.

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Speaker 4: So I saw that as being, you know, the blue

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Speaker 4: collar kind of interest. Probably appealed to his sensibilities. I

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Speaker 4: just don't know if they extrapolated far enough in the

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Speaker 4: future or really believe that he would be the cornerstone

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Speaker 4: that puts him over the top.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: All good points.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sure to flip it that Kyle Schwarber

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Speaker 3: or anybody can sit there and trust that Pittsburgh management

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Speaker 3: is going to spend at the level it's going to

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Speaker 3: take to get this team to contend. That remains to

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Speaker 3: be seen. But you've got to get that first guy

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Speaker 3: to start convincing people.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good point. Baltimore.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about what stepping up here means for Baltimore,

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Speaker 3: because to me, this means that Baltimore, to me, is

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Speaker 3: a real player for Peter Alonzo. You know, having this

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Speaker 3: money on the table for Schwarbert and listen, I thought

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Speaker 3: it was a fair contract. It kind of jars you

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Speaker 3: when you see a DH only getting that kind of money.

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Speaker 3: But Schwarber's impact bat, no question about it. Alonso also

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Speaker 3: an impact bat, a couple of years younger than kyleeg Schwarber,

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Speaker 3: and he does play defense. You can knock his defense

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Speaker 3: all you want, but he does play first base, which

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Speaker 3: is not a thick position in the major leagues as

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Speaker 3: far as talent, and he plays literally every game. So

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Speaker 3: I look at Baltimore, Joe, and I think that's a

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Speaker 3: real option for pet Alonso. And there was a report

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Speaker 3: from Mark Feinzan that the Mets do not want to

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Speaker 3: go beyond three years for Peter Alonzo. But I think

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Speaker 3: this contract offered a Schwarber and after the trade for

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Speaker 3: Taylor Ward from the Angels, to me, that makes them

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Speaker 3: a true pla for pin A Lonzo.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: I mean I'm just as you're explaining all of this,

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking about the just the ballpark itself, the fact

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Speaker 4: that they made it, they brought it back a little.

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Speaker 5: Bit, and I see a lot. So Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In fact, I just to break in a minute, if

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Speaker 3: you look at the numbers, because you know that place

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Speaker 3: was the toughest part for any right handed power hitter.

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Speaker 3: Pete's thirty eight home runs last year would have translated

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Speaker 3: it into about forty five forty six in a season

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Speaker 3: in Baltimore. So yeah, it's if I'm a right handed hitter. Now,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't scare me like it did a couple of

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 4: No, not only that, I mean he could power the

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Speaker 4: ball at the right center too.

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Speaker 5: I think it might.

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Speaker 4: I think when you got you know, that kind of

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Speaker 4: an off field situation, I think it makes some right

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Speaker 4: handed hitters better. I'm talking about the left field, I

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Speaker 4: mean the right field side of the field, when that

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Speaker 4: becomes more attractive. It's a high wall but not very

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Speaker 4: deep to right field. And even that little porch above

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Speaker 4: the bullpens where the ball hits the top like kind

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Speaker 4: of the roof and jumps into the stands that's right up,

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Speaker 4: as Alley pun intended. I mean, it's like he he

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Speaker 4: I think he could thrive in this ballpark. Now, don't

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Speaker 4: is Mount Castle still there the first basement isn't he's

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Speaker 4: still part of that or not?

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Speaker 2: He's a free agent now, okay at first base? Basically

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Speaker 2: open the.

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Speaker 5: I got you?

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Speaker 4: Then that makes all makes all the sense in the world.

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Speaker 4: It's a great fit. Now, where's Pete's mind at right now?

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Speaker 4: Because I mean, honestly.

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Speaker 5: You look at the Orioles.

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Speaker 4: I mean, just a couple of years ago, these guys

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Speaker 4: are in the thick of everything and then whoa, everything

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Speaker 4: blew up.

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Speaker 5: So I think it'd be it easy convincing.

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Speaker 4: To him that, listen, you're the guy that can get

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Speaker 4: us back to that point. We need what you do.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of really good young players on that group.

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Speaker 4: They got to pitch better, obviously, but as a hitter,

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Speaker 4: as a power hitter as he is, that ballpark could

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Speaker 4: really played to his hitting sensibilities. And yeah, it can

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Speaker 4: highlight what he can do defensively. Listen, as long as

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Speaker 4: the guy works, and I would imagine that he does work,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I know that the metrics really don't

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Speaker 4: like him, and I saw make some bad throws, and

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Speaker 4: I saw make some good throws by the end of

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Speaker 4: the year. I think there's a work I think about

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Speaker 4: this fellow that he can improve even at this age

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Speaker 4: a bit just become a little bit more consistent in

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Speaker 4: some areas.

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Speaker 5: So it makes all the sense in the world.

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Speaker 2: And it is a good fit Kyle Schwarber.

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Speaker 3: By the way, Joe, I have mentioned three words to

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Speaker 3: you as it relates to Kyle Schwarber Hall of Fame. Now,

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Speaker 3: career probably didn't start that way, but he's starting to

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Speaker 3: put up some serious numbers. I mean, when you're throwing

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Speaker 3: up home run totals in the forties and fifties, they

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Speaker 3: add up quickly.

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Speaker 2: He's now three hundred.

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Speaker 3: And forty home runs and he just signed a five

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Speaker 3: year deal. I mean, if he averages thirty one thirty

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Speaker 3: two a year the course of this contract, the dude's

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Speaker 3: get into five hundred. Now you can come back and

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Speaker 3: you can say, hey, what about Adam Dunn.

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Speaker 2: You know, when Adam.

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Speaker 3: Dunn was thirty two years old, he had already had

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Speaker 3: four hundred and six home runs.

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Speaker 2: Looked like a lock for five hundred.

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Speaker 3: He only played two more years or three more years

290
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Speaker 3: and wound up, you know, barely hitting four to sixty

291
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Speaker 3: two is what he wound up at. Never really got

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Speaker 3: close to five hundred on what we thought he was

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Speaker 3: going to do. To me, here's the difference, Joe. You

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Speaker 3: know how hard Kyle Schwerber works. It keeps himself in

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Speaker 3: great shape. He's supremely motivated, he loves the game. Those

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Speaker 3: things didn't apply to Adam Done at that stage in

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Speaker 3: his career. So I think this guy's got a real

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Speaker 3: good chance of hitting five hundred home runs and possibly

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Speaker 3: being a Hall of Famer. It brings me back to

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Speaker 3: when theo Epstein drafted Kyle Schwerber a catcher at Indiana,

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Speaker 3: and people weren't sure what his position was defensively, and

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Speaker 3: THEO said, what we're gonna do is I'm gonna stick

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Speaker 3: him in the left field and just let him put

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Speaker 3: up big poppy numbers.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's pretty much there.

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's poppy, but you know he's not

307
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Speaker 3: going to hit for that kind of an average. But

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Speaker 3: from twenty eight to thirty two, in this prime here,

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Speaker 3: Schwarber has hit more home runs than David Ortiz did

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Speaker 3: in those years. I just love the fact that the

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Speaker 3: way his career is playing out here, he obviously has

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Speaker 3: gotten so much better against left handed pitch. Last year

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Speaker 3: he hit more left down left homers than anybody in

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Speaker 3: the history of the game.

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Speaker 2: I think this guy is going to hold up well

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Speaker 2: over five years.

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Speaker 5: You just said it right.

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Speaker 4: There's the ascension, that is the that is why you

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Speaker 4: could even say what you just said. What he's done

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Speaker 4: with left tenant pitching. When we first had him with

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Speaker 4: the Cubbies, that I wanted to lead him off, we did.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a good idea. You know, it

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Speaker 4: could be one nothing or if it's not on nothing,

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Speaker 4: I thought he had such a great handle on his

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Speaker 4: strikes on it could be just at least the runner

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Speaker 4: at first base. There's a lot I thought to like there.

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Speaker 4: I and even in the minor leagues and throughout my

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Speaker 4: managerial career, I didn't mind putting somebody like that in

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Speaker 4: the leadoff spot because again, it's it's it's instant, it's

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Speaker 4: instant numbers, and then of course he comes up more often.

331
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Speaker 4: So at that point it just was tough the lefty.

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Speaker 4: To make him your leadoff hitter was tough because there's

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Speaker 4: something you didn't want to play against all the lefties.

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Speaker 4: You wanted to give him a chance, which we did,

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Speaker 4: maybe not long enough.

336
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Speaker 5: But although he.

337
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Speaker 4: Just wasn't ready to hit lefties at that time, the

338
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Speaker 4: whole approach is different. The way he stays back right now,

339
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Speaker 4: he waits on the ball right now. I used to

340
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Speaker 4: really go out and get it a lot, which would

341
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Speaker 4: really permit that down in a way, pitch to be problematic,

342
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Speaker 4: The chase on the slatter you have to commit to

343
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Speaker 4: so and all those different things that did not permit

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Speaker 4: him to be a decent left on left hitter. It

345
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Speaker 4: wasn't ready. He wasn't ready for it. It just happens,

346
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Speaker 4: and then eventually grows into it, finds the right hitting coach,

347
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Speaker 4: and then he just you know, the light bulb goes on. Man, Oh,

348
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Speaker 4: that's what you meant. You know, I can remember that

349
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Speaker 4: from different points in my baseball meager baseball career, but

350
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Speaker 4: this this epiphany, the light goes on, That's what he meant.

351
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Speaker 4: Like you could hear the same words over and over again,

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Speaker 4: right and you understand exactly what your coach. Of course

353
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Speaker 4: I speak English, understand what you're saying. However, I cannot

354
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Speaker 4: make my body, feel or move in what in regards

355
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Speaker 4: to what you're talking about.

356
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Speaker 5: I just can't.

357
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Speaker 4: But one day, one moment, all poom, there it is,

358
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Speaker 4: I feel it, and your coach is standing right there

359
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Speaker 4: and says, that's it.

360
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Speaker 5: That's right.

361
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Speaker 4: So and all of a sudden you're combining knowledge and

362
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Speaker 4: feel together, and you, whomever is in charge of this moment,

363
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Speaker 4: which was Kevin Long, that's a real powerful moment. And

364
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Speaker 4: I think that's I'm sure that's exactly what happened. It

365
00:16:13,278 --> 00:16:17,038
Speaker 4: was just a constantly a redund the process of saying

366
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Speaker 4: a lot of the same things over and over again,

367
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Speaker 4: until finally it made sense to hit to the mind

368
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Speaker 4: and the body simultaneously. And now we hit lefties, and

369
00:16:26,038 --> 00:16:28,118
Speaker 4: now we know how to hit lefties, and that you're right,

370
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Speaker 4: that's what puts him in that conversation. I never even

371
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Speaker 4: thought about that, Tommy. I didn't even put that together.

372
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Speaker 4: Only you would. And I think what you're saying is legitimate.

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Speaker 4: He will take care of himself. He's actually looks more

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Speaker 4: fit now than he did as a youngster coming out

375
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Speaker 4: of Indiana. I know how, like you said, motivated he is.

376
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Speaker 4: And the city of Philadelphia will keep you motivated.

377
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Speaker 5: Also, so.

378
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Speaker 4: It's the right set of circumstances to see how far

379
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Speaker 4: it can go with all of.

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Speaker 3: This, and real quick, Joe, we got to bring up

381
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Speaker 3: one of the greatest the bats and Cobs history. After

382
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Speaker 3: the rain delay in Game seven and twenty sixteen. I

383
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Speaker 3: can still see, I'm sure you can in my mind's eye.

384
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Speaker 3: Swebber gets that base hit and he's running down that

385
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Speaker 3: first baseline pumping his arm, and to me, it was

386
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Speaker 3: a different game. It was a different team after that

387
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Speaker 3: rain delay. The amount of energy, but to maintain the

388
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Speaker 3: energy once the ball is actually in play and we're

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Speaker 3: playing baseball again.

390
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Speaker 2: It was Schwarber who jump started the whole thing with

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Speaker 2: that base hit.

392
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Speaker 3: I just see the just the enthusiasm and the energy

393
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Speaker 3: on that hit.

394
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Speaker 4: But Happle, we're playing in the Dodgers in the playoffs,

395
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Speaker 4: and he, being THEO, comes to me and says, sh

396
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Speaker 4: Shoreb's good Surob's going to go to Arizona and he's

397
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Speaker 4: gonna start working out. He's gonna start what he did.

398
00:17:44,198 --> 00:17:46,078
Speaker 4: I don't know if this is urban legend or not,

399
00:17:46,158 --> 00:17:48,518
Speaker 4: but apparently he would stand there and track a thousand

400
00:17:48,518 --> 00:17:51,078
Speaker 4: pitches a day off a machine or whatever, just to

401
00:17:51,078 --> 00:17:53,318
Speaker 4: see the ball, see the velocity, see it coming at him,

402
00:17:53,318 --> 00:17:55,918
Speaker 4: and of course then he would eventually hit. We didn't

403
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Speaker 4: know how well is lege was going to hold up.

404
00:17:57,398 --> 00:17:59,198
Speaker 4: We didn't know, but you know, the doctors assured us

405
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Speaker 4: that it would. You're not going to press him or

406
00:18:01,158 --> 00:18:03,558
Speaker 4: push them. And that's why after that big base hit

407
00:18:03,598 --> 00:18:05,118
Speaker 4: that we had to pinch run for him, which was

408
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Speaker 4: fortuitous because Albert Omoa made a great base running plan

409
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Speaker 4: on something that we worked on a lot in spring training,

410
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Speaker 4: that was tagging up on flyballs at the outfield, even

411
00:18:13,838 --> 00:18:15,918
Speaker 4: when you're at first base. It just was like it

412
00:18:16,078 --> 00:18:20,278
Speaker 4: just came together perfectly. But yeah, Schwerbs, he did. He

413
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Speaker 4: just had this. He has this different he does. He's

414
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Speaker 4: just different kind of a mentality. He's got that winning mentality.

415
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Speaker 4: He's no nonsense. Got a great sense of humor, but

416
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Speaker 4: he's no nonsense and he's gonna try to get the

417
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Speaker 4: best out of him and everybody else around him. He

418
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Speaker 4: just it's not a frivolous conversation. It's just he's just

419
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Speaker 4: he's got these real intense dark eyes and when he

420
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Speaker 4: looks at you, it kind of he's kind of a

421
00:18:45,518 --> 00:18:47,278
Speaker 4: guy looks right through you. And you've got to be

422
00:18:47,318 --> 00:18:50,198
Speaker 4: able to conversationally, got to be able to hold your

423
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Speaker 4: own because there's nothing you're gonna slide by this felt

424
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Speaker 4: not that you want to, but I'm just telling you

425
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Speaker 4: you ain't gonna slide anything by him. So all this

426
00:18:56,598 --> 00:19:00,598
Speaker 4: stuff is makes sense. And so for him to make

427
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Speaker 4: get that big hit and start that rally again makes

428
00:19:04,238 --> 00:19:07,318
Speaker 4: all the sense. Well, you go back to we kicked

429
00:19:07,598 --> 00:19:10,158
Speaker 4: the Angels butt opening series, we go to the Diamondbacks,

430
00:19:10,198 --> 00:19:11,918
Speaker 4: balls hit the left center and all of a sudden,

431
00:19:12,358 --> 00:19:14,878
Speaker 4: this collision occurs, and we're still able to survive and

432
00:19:14,918 --> 00:19:18,718
Speaker 4: do really well that year. But Swarb's just a different animal.

433
00:19:18,758 --> 00:19:19,678
Speaker 4: And the Phillies know.

434
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Speaker 3: That he played in high school middle linebacker and he

435
00:19:23,398 --> 00:19:27,198
Speaker 3: was also on the spirit dance team in the school plays.

436
00:19:28,198 --> 00:19:28,838
Speaker 2: How about that.

437
00:19:28,838 --> 00:19:30,598
Speaker 3: That tells you all you need to know about a

438
00:19:30,598 --> 00:19:34,158
Speaker 3: guy who's comfortable with himself and will also knock you

439
00:19:34,238 --> 00:19:35,958
Speaker 3: in the next week if you get in his way.

440
00:19:36,358 --> 00:19:38,478
Speaker 4: He would always do the little dance and left field

441
00:19:38,838 --> 00:19:40,838
Speaker 4: when he went out there for the fans at Wrigley.

442
00:19:41,638 --> 00:19:44,398
Speaker 4: He's an entertainer man, and you know what, it's a

443
00:19:44,958 --> 00:19:45,358
Speaker 4: what is it?

444
00:19:45,438 --> 00:19:45,638
Speaker 5: Dance?

445
00:19:45,758 --> 00:19:49,358
Speaker 4: Like nobody's watching a singing like nobody's listening. There's another

446
00:19:49,358 --> 00:19:51,438
Speaker 4: component then live like it's heaven on Earth. There's one

447
00:19:51,478 --> 00:19:53,918
Speaker 4: I'm missing, but that's what he is. He dances like

448
00:19:53,958 --> 00:19:57,878
Speaker 4: no one's watching. He sings like no one's listening. Oh,

449
00:19:57,958 --> 00:20:00,518
Speaker 4: lovel like you've never been hurt, and and live like

450
00:20:00,558 --> 00:20:01,398
Speaker 4: it's heaven on Earth.

451
00:20:01,478 --> 00:20:02,238
Speaker 5: That's what he does.

452
00:20:02,958 --> 00:20:03,798
Speaker 2: Awesome stuff.

453
00:20:04,038 --> 00:20:06,398
Speaker 3: Hey, there was another big signing this case, it was

454
00:20:06,798 --> 00:20:09,838
Speaker 3: a free agent leaving his team. Edwin Diaz will talk

455
00:20:09,838 --> 00:20:12,518
Speaker 3: about what it means for the Dodgers and the New

456
00:20:12,598 --> 00:20:14,838
Speaker 3: York Mets. We'll do that right after this on the

457
00:20:14,838 --> 00:20:29,918
Speaker 3: Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

458
00:20:30,238 --> 00:20:33,038
Speaker 3: Edwin Diaz is a Dodger. Joe, how about have you

459
00:20:33,158 --> 00:20:35,798
Speaker 3: Dave Roberts Right now, you've spent ever since ken Lee

460
00:20:35,878 --> 00:20:38,118
Speaker 3: Jansen the left, You've been running people through that ninth

461
00:20:38,118 --> 00:20:41,678
Speaker 3: inning like on a weekly basis, right, especially in the postseason.

462
00:20:41,918 --> 00:20:44,838
Speaker 3: You look at players who have closed games for Dave Roberts.

463
00:20:44,958 --> 00:20:48,838
Speaker 3: It's all over the map, including two starting pitchers ending

464
00:20:48,878 --> 00:20:51,558
Speaker 3: the last two World Series. Well, now, as good as

465
00:20:51,558 --> 00:20:54,278
Speaker 3: the Dodgers are, they have to me the guy who's

466
00:20:54,318 --> 00:20:55,838
Speaker 3: been over the last four or five years. The best

467
00:20:55,838 --> 00:21:00,518
Speaker 3: closer in baseball, Edwin Diaz three year contract sixty was

468
00:21:00,518 --> 00:21:04,518
Speaker 3: it sixty nine million dollars? A lot of people were surprised.

469
00:21:04,558 --> 00:21:08,118
Speaker 3: I really wasn't, Joe, But this is what the Dodgers do.

470
00:21:08,198 --> 00:21:10,358
Speaker 3: They had almost eighty million dollars coming off the payroll,

471
00:21:10,438 --> 00:21:12,878
Speaker 3: so it's not like they're blowing the payroll to another

472
00:21:13,278 --> 00:21:15,598
Speaker 3: huge level here. But boy, this is goin to hurt

473
00:21:15,638 --> 00:21:17,478
Speaker 3: the New York Mets. Give me your first reaction when

474
00:21:17,478 --> 00:21:19,358
Speaker 3: you first heard about Diaz to the Dodgers.

475
00:21:20,198 --> 00:21:21,638
Speaker 5: Not surprised, you know.

476
00:21:21,678 --> 00:21:23,998
Speaker 4: And again I read the New York papers constantly, and

477
00:21:24,038 --> 00:21:26,518
Speaker 4: you know, I think you know how much did the

478
00:21:26,598 --> 00:21:29,798
Speaker 4: Mets really cherished having him back there? The fact that

479
00:21:29,838 --> 00:21:31,638
Speaker 4: he is as good as you described, Plus he does

480
00:21:31,678 --> 00:21:36,118
Speaker 4: that there. You saw it Hellsley right when he came in,

481
00:21:36,158 --> 00:21:38,518
Speaker 4: and it did not work out like you thought it

482
00:21:38,518 --> 00:21:40,038
Speaker 4: would when he had been in Sing Louis. So it's

483
00:21:40,078 --> 00:21:42,278
Speaker 4: not for everybody. It's not for the weak of heart.

484
00:21:42,718 --> 00:21:44,718
Speaker 4: The only injury he's had is when he got injured

485
00:21:44,758 --> 00:21:47,198
Speaker 4: in that celebration right. Otherwise he's been pretty healthy during

486
00:21:47,198 --> 00:21:50,798
Speaker 4: this time too, I believe. And God, the fastball is

487
00:21:50,838 --> 00:21:53,358
Speaker 4: oppressive and so is the breaking ball. And on top

488
00:21:53,358 --> 00:21:56,158
Speaker 4: of that, I would bet that the Dodgers actually there's

489
00:21:56,158 --> 00:22:01,438
Speaker 4: something about what they've been recognizing regarding what they're seeing

490
00:22:01,438 --> 00:22:02,998
Speaker 4: that that they feel like they could help him become

491
00:22:02,998 --> 00:22:06,358
Speaker 4: even better. There's no that I'm sure that's part of it.

492
00:22:06,358 --> 00:22:08,798
Speaker 4: It's just a little bit surprising, not surprising that the

493
00:22:08,838 --> 00:22:11,318
Speaker 4: Dodgers did that at all, not even a little bit

494
00:22:11,838 --> 00:22:14,558
Speaker 4: surprising that the you know, the Mets, and all you

495
00:22:14,638 --> 00:22:17,998
Speaker 4: read about is like since Cohen took over that they're

496
00:22:18,078 --> 00:22:19,958
Speaker 4: competing with the Dodgers, they want to be the Dodgers

497
00:22:19,958 --> 00:22:23,518
Speaker 4: on East Coast, all this other stuff, and then this happens.

498
00:22:24,158 --> 00:22:27,278
Speaker 4: This not that there's not a whole lot of happiness

499
00:22:27,318 --> 00:22:30,518
Speaker 4: going around that Ivory Tower at City Field right now,

500
00:22:30,518 --> 00:22:32,918
Speaker 4: I don't think so. I don't know that this they

501
00:22:32,918 --> 00:22:35,838
Speaker 4: saw this one coming. And I guess the the amount

502
00:22:35,838 --> 00:22:40,238
Speaker 4: of money between the two places wasn't horribly different, right,

503
00:22:40,558 --> 00:22:43,198
Speaker 4: So it had to be something about internally about the

504
00:22:43,318 --> 00:22:46,558
Speaker 4: is somebody sold him with within a Dodge organization, or

505
00:22:46,598 --> 00:22:49,278
Speaker 4: there was something about the Mets side he wasn't quite

506
00:22:49,358 --> 00:22:51,878
Speaker 4: comfortable with that you would never hear about because I

507
00:22:51,878 --> 00:22:53,758
Speaker 4: don't think he's the kind of guy that's going to

508
00:22:53,838 --> 00:22:55,798
Speaker 4: open up about that. But that's that's the part that

509
00:22:55,838 --> 00:22:59,038
Speaker 4: I thought was interesting. Whereas the money was kind of

510
00:22:59,358 --> 00:23:02,678
Speaker 4: similar or very similar, almost exactly the same, that he

511
00:23:02,678 --> 00:23:05,798
Speaker 4: would leave that place to go there, other than the

512
00:23:05,798 --> 00:23:07,718
Speaker 4: fact that he might feel that they could win there

513
00:23:08,038 --> 00:23:10,598
Speaker 4: more than with the Mets, and again something that he

514
00:23:10,638 --> 00:23:14,158
Speaker 4: internally sees. That's the part of this that I'd like

515
00:23:14,158 --> 00:23:14,798
Speaker 4: to know more about.

516
00:23:15,398 --> 00:23:17,238
Speaker 3: Yeah, first of all, in the money, you're right, they

517
00:23:17,238 --> 00:23:21,838
Speaker 3: were both very close, and again it's it's not a

518
00:23:21,998 --> 00:23:25,078
Speaker 3: crazy deal when you think about, well, best closer in baseball.

519
00:23:25,078 --> 00:23:27,158
Speaker 3: I get it, he's in his early thirties, but keeping

520
00:23:27,198 --> 00:23:29,358
Speaker 3: that three years, that's a big win for the Dodgers.

521
00:23:30,358 --> 00:23:32,798
Speaker 3: And the fact that with a little bit of deferred money,

522
00:23:32,798 --> 00:23:34,958
Speaker 3: I mean it's not Otani deferred money, but there is

523
00:23:34,998 --> 00:23:38,838
Speaker 3: some deferred money that his average annual value is less

524
00:23:39,238 --> 00:23:42,678
Speaker 3: than what the qualifying offer was. So it's not an

525
00:23:42,718 --> 00:23:45,598
Speaker 3: outrageous deal at all for the Dodgers. And I said,

526
00:23:45,758 --> 00:23:47,438
Speaker 3: as I said, you know, with the money coming off

527
00:23:47,478 --> 00:23:51,958
Speaker 3: the payroll, listen, money's great because they looks like they

528
00:23:51,958 --> 00:23:54,398
Speaker 3: made a mistake on Tanner Scott last year seventy two

529
00:23:54,438 --> 00:23:57,958
Speaker 3: million dollars and you know, he got hit and at

530
00:23:57,958 --> 00:23:59,918
Speaker 3: the end of the year was hurt. We'll see if

531
00:23:59,958 --> 00:24:02,598
Speaker 3: they can fix him, but they didn't in the course

532
00:24:02,638 --> 00:24:03,318
Speaker 3: of last year.

533
00:24:03,638 --> 00:24:05,598
Speaker 2: But it doesn't matter. You can live with that when.

534
00:24:05,518 --> 00:24:06,798
Speaker 3: You have the money to go out there and get

535
00:24:06,878 --> 00:24:10,398
Speaker 3: Edwin Diaz. As far as the Mets here, are going

536
00:24:10,478 --> 00:24:12,998
Speaker 3: to give them a pass Joe until we hear more,

537
00:24:13,918 --> 00:24:17,038
Speaker 3: because from what I was told from a source that

538
00:24:17,478 --> 00:24:20,598
Speaker 3: this was a case where the Dodgers are just so

539
00:24:21,038 --> 00:24:24,478
Speaker 3: darned attractive right now that it wasn't a matter that

540
00:24:24,598 --> 00:24:26,798
Speaker 3: you know, he wasn't going to take the money from

541
00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:29,878
Speaker 3: the Mets. But if you're in your thirties like Edwin

542
00:24:29,958 --> 00:24:32,838
Speaker 3: Diaz and you haven't won a World Series, how do

543
00:24:32,918 --> 00:24:35,958
Speaker 3: you not sign with the Dodgers unless you're just in

544
00:24:35,998 --> 00:24:37,278
Speaker 3: love with the incumbent team.

545
00:24:37,558 --> 00:24:39,118
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying he was or wasn't.

546
00:24:39,158 --> 00:24:41,518
Speaker 3: I'm just saying right now, to me, the Dodgers are

547
00:24:41,958 --> 00:24:45,278
Speaker 3: what the Yankees were in the late nineties early two thousands.

548
00:24:45,478 --> 00:24:48,438
Speaker 3: I remember Mike Musina going to the Yankees, who were

549
00:24:48,558 --> 00:24:51,918
Speaker 3: loaded with starting pitching, and he had the Orioles wanting

550
00:24:51,958 --> 00:24:53,518
Speaker 3: to keep him. He had Boston in it, and he

551
00:24:53,558 --> 00:24:54,958
Speaker 3: had the Mets in it all kind of in the

552
00:24:54,958 --> 00:24:58,398
Speaker 3: same ballpark. But hop aboard the Yankees train if you

553
00:24:58,438 --> 00:25:00,478
Speaker 3: want to win the World Championship. As it turned out,

554
00:25:00,558 --> 00:25:02,878
Speaker 3: he didn't at that era with the Yankees. He got

555
00:25:02,878 --> 00:25:05,918
Speaker 3: on at the wrong time. But right now, the Dodgers

556
00:25:05,958 --> 00:25:09,438
Speaker 3: are the it team. And from my source telling me

557
00:25:09,638 --> 00:25:13,598
Speaker 3: this is what attracted Edwin Diaz that yeah, okay, the

558
00:25:13,638 --> 00:25:16,758
Speaker 3: Mets are spending right close to what the Dodgers spend,

559
00:25:17,358 --> 00:25:20,038
Speaker 3: but last time they won the World Series was eighty six.

560
00:25:20,118 --> 00:25:23,198
Speaker 3: You're coming off a really disappointing season in which the

561
00:25:23,238 --> 00:25:25,598
Speaker 3: team fell apart in the second half. There were some

562
00:25:25,798 --> 00:25:27,518
Speaker 3: chemistry and clubhouse issues there.

563
00:25:27,558 --> 00:25:28,558
Speaker 2: I think we all know that.

564
00:25:28,558 --> 00:25:32,078
Speaker 3: The Mets don't want to say that publicly, and again

565
00:25:32,078 --> 00:25:35,278
Speaker 3: I'm not saying Diaz didn't like it there. But right now,

566
00:25:35,318 --> 00:25:37,798
Speaker 3: the Dodgers and the way they treat their players as well,

567
00:25:37,998 --> 00:25:40,078
Speaker 3: word is out, man, that's the place to play.

568
00:25:40,118 --> 00:25:40,798
Speaker 2: That's tough for the.

569
00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:42,878
Speaker 3: Mets or anybody to compete with if they want to

570
00:25:42,918 --> 00:25:43,678
Speaker 3: sign a free agent.

571
00:25:44,638 --> 00:25:48,758
Speaker 4: No, you're right correct all of that. You know, I

572
00:25:48,838 --> 00:25:51,918
Speaker 4: know how Andrew operates, and you know, un listen when

573
00:25:51,958 --> 00:25:55,118
Speaker 4: you have that kind of those kind of resources. It's

574
00:25:55,158 --> 00:25:57,958
Speaker 4: easy to replicate the easier to replicate that on an

575
00:25:57,998 --> 00:26:01,958
Speaker 4: annual basis. But it just speaks down to the Cohen

576
00:26:01,998 --> 00:26:04,438
Speaker 4: era there when he comes in and all the themations

577
00:26:04,438 --> 00:26:05,238
Speaker 4: that were made.

578
00:26:06,078 --> 00:26:08,718
Speaker 5: Uh again, this is a situation. I don't I don't.

579
00:26:08,758 --> 00:26:10,838
Speaker 4: I don't know it's sterns well at all, but I

580
00:26:10,838 --> 00:26:12,878
Speaker 4: mean I follow a lot of this. Is this another

581
00:26:12,918 --> 00:26:15,318
Speaker 4: situation we're just talking about with Schwerbur. I mean, the

582
00:26:15,318 --> 00:26:17,518
Speaker 4: Phillies wouldn't let Shuerber go. There's not gonna leave. We're

583
00:26:17,518 --> 00:26:20,998
Speaker 4: gonna keep him here somehow. You just described these as

584
00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:23,638
Speaker 4: the best closer in the game. Right now, the Mets

585
00:26:23,678 --> 00:26:26,438
Speaker 4: are trying to win. Uh, you know on that level

586
00:26:26,438 --> 00:26:27,998
Speaker 4: with the Dodgers, how do you let him get away?

587
00:26:28,078 --> 00:26:31,838
Speaker 4: I I don't know, Private Jetim, I don't know what

588
00:26:31,918 --> 00:26:33,438
Speaker 4: it would take. But again, this is one of those

589
00:26:33,478 --> 00:26:36,878
Speaker 4: situations that you may have to overpay because where's this uh,

590
00:26:36,998 --> 00:26:40,638
Speaker 4: where's this guy gonna come from? I don't know who

591
00:26:40,678 --> 00:26:43,678
Speaker 4: they have in mind to fill that role right now,

592
00:26:43,718 --> 00:26:46,598
Speaker 4: because once he's gone, it's like you know when you

593
00:26:46,638 --> 00:26:49,158
Speaker 4: when you fire somebody in essence or let somebody go

594
00:26:50,118 --> 00:26:51,638
Speaker 4: you have to know in advance, who are we going

595
00:26:51,678 --> 00:26:53,678
Speaker 4: to replace him with that's equally as good, And we're

596
00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:56,118
Speaker 4: trying to do this. We're not trying to compete. We're

597
00:26:56,158 --> 00:26:58,758
Speaker 4: trying to win this whole thing, not just the n

598
00:26:58,878 --> 00:27:01,198
Speaker 4: L or the or division. This is about what played

599
00:27:01,198 --> 00:27:02,638
Speaker 4: in the last game of the year and winning it.

600
00:27:02,718 --> 00:27:04,678
Speaker 4: So these this is what I think about when I

601
00:27:04,678 --> 00:27:07,798
Speaker 4: see situations like this. Yes, the Dodgers are very absolutely,

602
00:27:08,158 --> 00:27:10,318
Speaker 4: but the goal was to make the Mets as attractive

603
00:27:10,358 --> 00:27:13,838
Speaker 4: or more here. So that's what I'm saying. There's something

604
00:27:13,878 --> 00:27:16,878
Speaker 4: going on there beyond the money. I'm just be curious,

605
00:27:16,958 --> 00:27:20,518
Speaker 4: that's all because he is that good. You just talked

606
00:27:20,518 --> 00:27:22,958
Speaker 4: about it, you stated it. It's true, So why do

607
00:27:23,038 --> 00:27:27,078
Speaker 4: you permit that to happen? In a sense, because you've

608
00:27:27,118 --> 00:27:28,918
Speaker 4: had him. You had him, he was he was yours,

609
00:27:29,638 --> 00:27:31,398
Speaker 4: you knew, you know all this quirks, you knew everything

610
00:27:31,398 --> 00:27:33,358
Speaker 4: about him, knew how he reacted to the situations.

611
00:27:33,398 --> 00:27:35,478
Speaker 5: You knew, And maybe that's what they didn't like.

612
00:27:35,558 --> 00:27:37,478
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe there's something that they're actually kind

613
00:27:37,478 --> 00:27:38,558
Speaker 4: of pleased with that he's gone.

614
00:27:38,678 --> 00:27:39,118
Speaker 5: We'll see.

615
00:27:39,518 --> 00:27:42,438
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, obviously they did sign Devin Williams, and

616
00:27:42,758 --> 00:27:44,318
Speaker 3: at the time it seemed like, well that was a

617
00:27:44,318 --> 00:27:48,478
Speaker 3: hedge against Diaz possibly leaving or best case scenario, they

618
00:27:48,478 --> 00:27:50,878
Speaker 3: have both of them and they have a lockdown eighth

619
00:27:50,918 --> 00:27:54,838
Speaker 3: and ninth inning situation. But no question now Devin Williams

620
00:27:54,958 --> 00:27:57,238
Speaker 3: is their closer. I happened to think his year last

621
00:27:57,318 --> 00:27:59,438
Speaker 3: year was better than a lot of people think. I

622
00:27:59,438 --> 00:28:01,918
Speaker 3: mean they look at the era at yeah, it's not good.

623
00:28:02,038 --> 00:28:06,478
Speaker 3: His worst year was it four to seven, And but

624
00:28:06,558 --> 00:28:09,198
Speaker 3: if you look at the underlying metrics, the swring and

625
00:28:09,198 --> 00:28:12,678
Speaker 3: miss especially, it was all there for Devin Williams. Listen,

626
00:28:12,718 --> 00:28:15,318
Speaker 3: he's still a good reliever. It's not like that's a

627
00:28:15,398 --> 00:28:18,878
Speaker 3: terrible fallback option that they're lost now. But the fact

628
00:28:18,958 --> 00:28:21,118
Speaker 3: is there's still going to have to fortify this bullpen.

629
00:28:21,558 --> 00:28:23,238
Speaker 3: You know, it's gonna take a lot more than Devin

630
00:28:23,278 --> 00:28:26,198
Speaker 3: Williams now to recover from the loss of Edwin Diaz.

631
00:28:26,438 --> 00:28:28,918
Speaker 4: You're right, I mean, and then Stern's had him with Milwaukee, correct,

632
00:28:28,958 --> 00:28:31,438
Speaker 4: I mean, that's part of the that's part of the

633
00:28:31,438 --> 00:28:33,998
Speaker 4: connection there. And again this is this is a situation

634
00:28:34,238 --> 00:28:39,158
Speaker 4: I think knowing somebody and Stearns now knows he knew

635
00:28:39,158 --> 00:28:41,278
Speaker 4: Williams and now he knows DEAs and maybe that was

636
00:28:41,318 --> 00:28:42,798
Speaker 4: part of the decision. We're not going to go over

637
00:28:42,838 --> 00:28:45,878
Speaker 4: this threshold because we feel as though we got this

638
00:28:45,918 --> 00:28:48,318
Speaker 4: guy that can be as good, if not better in

639
00:28:48,358 --> 00:28:51,358
Speaker 4: their mind to think about Williams that you're right. I mean,

640
00:28:51,398 --> 00:28:54,278
Speaker 4: I saw that stuff last year. I was just and

641
00:28:54,318 --> 00:28:55,918
Speaker 4: when a relief pitch, you have to understand that you

642
00:28:55,958 --> 00:28:58,718
Speaker 4: mentioned it. What are two or three even three bad

643
00:28:58,718 --> 00:29:00,918
Speaker 4: outings during the course of his season could really balloon

644
00:29:00,958 --> 00:29:04,078
Speaker 4: your numbers and it could make a look horrible, and

645
00:29:04,198 --> 00:29:06,718
Speaker 4: especially if it happens early, because it is something to your.

646
00:29:06,518 --> 00:29:07,598
Speaker 5: Psyche a little bit too.

647
00:29:08,238 --> 00:29:10,598
Speaker 4: So they have a lot of faith there obviously, and

648
00:29:10,638 --> 00:29:15,158
Speaker 4: maybe Stearns believes that with willimsbying the only guy there

649
00:29:15,358 --> 00:29:17,758
Speaker 4: that might be better for him in regards to how

650
00:29:17,798 --> 00:29:20,598
Speaker 4: he approaches the day. There's no confusion. He knows he's

651
00:29:20,598 --> 00:29:23,198
Speaker 4: got the ninth. Maybe that's been he's assured of all that.

652
00:29:23,238 --> 00:29:25,718
Speaker 4: There's a lot of this conversation that may have occurred

653
00:29:25,758 --> 00:29:28,238
Speaker 4: before they went the extra mile with the money too,

654
00:29:28,318 --> 00:29:32,158
Speaker 4: So you're right, they probably feel really good about that.

655
00:29:33,238 --> 00:29:36,198
Speaker 4: The thing, I'm such a face reader, I'm such a

656
00:29:36,278 --> 00:29:39,518
Speaker 4: gut guy. The thing I didn't like when I saw

657
00:29:39,518 --> 00:29:41,278
Speaker 4: Williams pitch last year. Was a lot of times this

658
00:29:42,278 --> 00:29:45,838
Speaker 4: frustration on the mound, where this concession almost on the mound,

659
00:29:46,278 --> 00:29:48,358
Speaker 4: and his look and I and I look at that

660
00:29:48,438 --> 00:29:49,118
Speaker 4: stuff like that.

661
00:29:49,798 --> 00:29:51,918
Speaker 5: I thought his armstroke was lower. I thought his arm

662
00:29:51,958 --> 00:29:52,558
Speaker 5: angle was lower.

663
00:29:52,598 --> 00:29:54,718
Speaker 4: You're telling me the swing and misses the same, you know,

664
00:29:54,758 --> 00:29:58,158
Speaker 4: because that pitch is ridiculously good. But my concern was

665
00:29:58,158 --> 00:30:00,798
Speaker 4: the arm kept getting lower, which makes the ball come

666
00:30:00,838 --> 00:30:03,638
Speaker 4: out flatter, which then, even if it's good, permission to

667
00:30:03,678 --> 00:30:05,558
Speaker 4: keep the bat on that plane a little bit longer.

668
00:30:05,598 --> 00:30:07,878
Speaker 4: These are the things I was seeing last year. So

669
00:30:07,918 --> 00:30:10,638
Speaker 4: that was my concern about Williams. Is more than even

670
00:30:10,678 --> 00:30:12,798
Speaker 4: the numbers indicated. I thought there was a reason the

671
00:30:12,878 --> 00:30:15,558
Speaker 4: numbers weren't good, and part of it could have been makeup.

672
00:30:15,598 --> 00:30:18,678
Speaker 5: Part of it could have been his arms strokes.

673
00:30:18,718 --> 00:30:21,598
Speaker 4: Something had gotten off mechanically that they were unable to fix.

674
00:30:21,638 --> 00:30:23,318
Speaker 4: Mebe his arm was bothering me, couldn't get it up

675
00:30:23,318 --> 00:30:26,278
Speaker 4: as high, those kind of things. That's what I think

676
00:30:26,278 --> 00:30:28,438
Speaker 4: about when I when I see a situation like that.

677
00:30:28,918 --> 00:30:31,238
Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you you're dead right, Joe Baden,

678
00:30:31,678 --> 00:30:35,038
Speaker 3: because I talked with Devon about this, and listen, we

679
00:30:35,078 --> 00:30:38,598
Speaker 3: talked about this with the Mets trading for Cedric Mullens

680
00:30:38,758 --> 00:30:41,078
Speaker 3: and Ryan Helsley, both of whom left their team for

681
00:30:41,118 --> 00:30:43,518
Speaker 3: the first time, and that was mid season, and that

682
00:30:43,638 --> 00:30:45,718
Speaker 3: is a tough adjustment. I'm telling you, folks, it's a

683
00:30:45,718 --> 00:30:48,038
Speaker 3: big deal. The one that stands out for me is

684
00:30:48,078 --> 00:30:50,358
Speaker 3: Jonathan Scope getting traded for the first time and fell

685
00:30:50,398 --> 00:30:53,438
Speaker 3: flat on his face. I think it was in Milwaukee.

686
00:30:53,998 --> 00:30:55,518
Speaker 3: It's a shock to the system for a lot of

687
00:30:55,518 --> 00:30:58,438
Speaker 3: these guys. And it was interesting when I spoke with Devan,

688
00:30:58,518 --> 00:31:01,518
Speaker 3: he talked about after opening Day with the Yankees, he

689
00:31:01,598 --> 00:31:05,118
Speaker 3: realized he didn't know how to get home. So it's

690
00:31:05,158 --> 00:31:07,158
Speaker 3: just a way of saying that he was a little

691
00:31:07,198 --> 00:31:10,038
Speaker 3: bit lost, you know, after being in Milwaukee system his

692
00:31:10,078 --> 00:31:12,438
Speaker 3: whole career. He's traded to New York, dropped into New

693
00:31:12,518 --> 00:31:15,718
Speaker 3: York after spring training and as he said, there's millions

694
00:31:15,758 --> 00:31:17,758
Speaker 3: and millions of people there, I don't might know my

695
00:31:17,798 --> 00:31:19,678
Speaker 3: way around. He did have that look on his face.

696
00:31:19,718 --> 00:31:22,278
Speaker 3: There's no question about it. There is an adjustment and

697
00:31:22,278 --> 00:31:24,638
Speaker 3: a period in life. And you could say, well, it

698
00:31:24,678 --> 00:31:27,638
Speaker 3: should happen overnight. What's the big deal for some guys?

699
00:31:27,638 --> 00:31:29,158
Speaker 3: If they've been in one place for a long time,

700
00:31:29,198 --> 00:31:30,918
Speaker 3: it's all they know, it's all the people they know.

701
00:31:31,358 --> 00:31:33,238
Speaker 3: It is a shock to the system, and New York

702
00:31:33,318 --> 00:31:35,918
Speaker 3: is very different, There's no question, especially when you don't

703
00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:38,318
Speaker 3: produce and all of a sudden you've got criticism on

704
00:31:38,358 --> 00:31:39,198
Speaker 3: your back as well.

705
00:31:39,598 --> 00:31:41,758
Speaker 2: So I think that explains a little bit of what.

706
00:31:41,718 --> 00:31:45,078
Speaker 3: Happened earlier in the season to Devin Williams, and you're right,

707
00:31:45,158 --> 00:31:47,358
Speaker 3: and we've talked about this each year in the last

708
00:31:47,398 --> 00:31:49,398
Speaker 3: four or five years, is arm angle has gotten a

709
00:31:49,438 --> 00:31:52,678
Speaker 3: little bit lower. He actually said one of the teams

710
00:31:52,758 --> 00:31:55,038
Speaker 3: he was talking to in the course of his free

711
00:31:55,078 --> 00:31:59,878
Speaker 3: agency mentioned that and said what was interesting was his

712
00:32:00,198 --> 00:32:03,598
Speaker 3: arm angle was lower, but his release point was actually

713
00:32:04,878 --> 00:32:07,918
Speaker 3: and Devin said, a light bulb went off and he said,

714
00:32:07,958 --> 00:32:10,718
Speaker 3: now I know what I need to do to fix that.

715
00:32:10,998 --> 00:32:13,518
Speaker 3: I thought that was fascinating. And it wasn't the Mets

716
00:32:13,518 --> 00:32:15,678
Speaker 3: who told him this. One of the other teams interested

717
00:32:15,678 --> 00:32:17,998
Speaker 3: in Devin Williams noticed something about the way he was

718
00:32:18,038 --> 00:32:20,358
Speaker 3: throwing a baseball, and all of a sudden he clicked

719
00:32:20,398 --> 00:32:22,958
Speaker 3: to Devin Williams like, I know exactly what you're talking about.

720
00:32:23,118 --> 00:32:24,038
Speaker 3: Fascinating stuff.

721
00:32:24,438 --> 00:32:26,798
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you got to make sure you get

722
00:32:26,798 --> 00:32:29,198
Speaker 4: the guy before you tell him everything, especially if he's

723
00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:29,958
Speaker 4: in your division.

724
00:32:31,238 --> 00:32:34,278
Speaker 3: We can fix you. I get that under two again.

725
00:32:34,678 --> 00:32:35,078
Speaker 5: Wow.

726
00:32:35,198 --> 00:32:36,638
Speaker 4: I know a lot of gyms that would really be

727
00:32:36,718 --> 00:32:38,918
Speaker 4: upset right now under those circumstances.

728
00:32:39,918 --> 00:32:41,158
Speaker 2: Giving ammunition to the end.

729
00:32:41,478 --> 00:32:44,278
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's like proprietary information.

730
00:32:44,398 --> 00:32:44,718
Speaker 5: My god.

731
00:32:44,758 --> 00:32:47,558
Speaker 4: They jump in their bunkers at that point.

732
00:32:47,758 --> 00:32:48,078
Speaker 5: Listen.

733
00:32:48,118 --> 00:32:50,198
Speaker 4: I believe that kind of stuff as a as a

734
00:32:50,238 --> 00:32:54,878
Speaker 4: hitting instructor for years. You know, you when you're working

735
00:32:54,918 --> 00:32:56,958
Speaker 4: the minor leagues, you go from rookie ball all the

736
00:32:56,958 --> 00:32:59,438
Speaker 4: way up to the big leagues. You see hitters on

737
00:32:59,518 --> 00:33:02,238
Speaker 4: every level and every level in between. And the thing

738
00:33:02,278 --> 00:33:05,998
Speaker 4: that always might pretation was when you work with a

739
00:33:06,078 --> 00:33:09,118
Speaker 4: rookie ball guy or a low a ball hitter, it's

740
00:33:09,158 --> 00:33:11,958
Speaker 4: obvious what they're doing wrong. It's very obvious because they

741
00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:15,318
Speaker 4: do so many things wrong. Things might be off or this,

742
00:33:15,478 --> 00:33:17,918
Speaker 4: whether it's their feet, whether you're jumping at it, the

743
00:33:17,958 --> 00:33:20,678
Speaker 4: way they're dropping their hands early, their heads playing.

744
00:33:20,398 --> 00:33:21,718
Speaker 5: Whatever, obvious.

745
00:33:21,998 --> 00:33:25,278
Speaker 4: But as guys become more efficient proficient, it's harder to

746
00:33:25,318 --> 00:33:29,318
Speaker 4: see the flaws because they're really good at a lot

747
00:33:29,358 --> 00:33:30,758
Speaker 4: of the way their body moves and all of a

748
00:33:30,758 --> 00:33:33,038
Speaker 4: sudden there's a little thing and that's where this high

749
00:33:33,078 --> 00:33:36,318
Speaker 4: speed stuff filming wise and all the tech involved. That's

750
00:33:36,398 --> 00:33:39,998
Speaker 4: very helpful in narrowing down, well, what is off with

751
00:33:40,078 --> 00:33:42,598
Speaker 4: this fellaw right now? And that's why it's also wonderful

752
00:33:42,638 --> 00:33:45,638
Speaker 4: to have a benchmark at base when you first get

753
00:33:45,638 --> 00:33:47,638
Speaker 4: somebody to look at and have that on video whatever,

754
00:33:47,678 --> 00:33:49,478
Speaker 4: have about all the information so that when it does

755
00:33:49,518 --> 00:33:52,478
Speaker 4: go sideways, you can revert back.

756
00:33:52,918 --> 00:33:55,038
Speaker 5: So yeah, this that all makes sense to me.

757
00:33:55,518 --> 00:34:00,358
Speaker 4: The more efficient or more accomplished you become, you're normally

758
00:34:00,598 --> 00:34:03,038
Speaker 4: you move well what you do as well, so for

759
00:34:03,118 --> 00:34:06,318
Speaker 4: the naked eyed is see that stuff becomes more difficult.

760
00:34:06,398 --> 00:34:09,318
Speaker 4: I used to really drive me nuts with hitters coming

761
00:34:09,358 --> 00:34:11,958
Speaker 4: up through the Angel system and then eventually it wasn't

762
00:34:11,998 --> 00:34:13,918
Speaker 4: a major league hitting coach, but I'm still a major

763
00:34:14,038 --> 00:34:16,318
Speaker 4: league as a manager as a hitting coach. As I

764
00:34:16,358 --> 00:34:20,478
Speaker 4: watched everything, So that's that's kind of probably what happened there,

765
00:34:20,758 --> 00:34:23,838
Speaker 4: fell in between the cracks, because it's just I mean,

766
00:34:23,838 --> 00:34:25,598
Speaker 4: I'm so I'm so aware of that because like I

767
00:34:25,598 --> 00:34:27,958
Speaker 4: remember back with the Rays, I can't remember who it

768
00:34:27,998 --> 00:34:30,038
Speaker 4: was that was struggling, and the first thing I said,

769
00:34:30,078 --> 00:34:33,478
Speaker 4: it looks to me is though the arm is dropping

770
00:34:33,518 --> 00:34:35,638
Speaker 4: a bit. Eric Neander, Eric, could you check on that

771
00:34:35,718 --> 00:34:39,798
Speaker 4: for me, because that, to me, that's that's really that's

772
00:34:39,878 --> 00:34:42,718
Speaker 4: the kind of a mechanical adjustment you don't mind making

773
00:34:43,038 --> 00:34:47,718
Speaker 4: or talking about, because that's something that's not really going

774
00:34:47,798 --> 00:34:50,798
Speaker 4: to get in the guy's head necessarily when you're trying

775
00:34:50,798 --> 00:34:53,158
Speaker 4: to not necessarily make an adjustment getting back to he

776
00:34:53,198 --> 00:34:55,918
Speaker 4: had been. It's something his body used to do, so

777
00:34:55,998 --> 00:34:57,878
Speaker 4: these are That's that's where I think this tech is

778
00:34:57,958 --> 00:35:00,638
Speaker 4: really good. Moments like that, to get that snapshot when

779
00:35:00,678 --> 00:35:02,918
Speaker 4: the guy's really good. I remember talking to Jimmy Edmonds.

780
00:35:02,958 --> 00:35:05,838
Speaker 4: I'm a Jimmy up in Edmonton and he's going off.

781
00:35:06,318 --> 00:35:09,398
Speaker 4: He's just like tearing it up. And as any coach,

782
00:35:09,758 --> 00:35:12,238
Speaker 4: I would walk in and I would watch guys and

783
00:35:12,278 --> 00:35:14,278
Speaker 4: if they're going well. I eventually went up to him

784
00:35:14,278 --> 00:35:16,678
Speaker 4: and say, listen, brother, I'm not saying anything to you

785
00:35:16,758 --> 00:35:18,958
Speaker 4: this whole time I'm here because I can only serve

786
00:35:18,998 --> 00:35:19,678
Speaker 4: to confuse you.

787
00:35:19,958 --> 00:35:20,838
Speaker 5: I'm just here to observe.

788
00:35:20,878 --> 00:35:23,198
Speaker 4: And I wrote down my notes and I had my notes,

789
00:35:23,198 --> 00:35:24,998
Speaker 4: and sure enough, next time they came in, he wasn't

790
00:35:24,998 --> 00:35:27,638
Speaker 4: doing as well. And I had my notes to talk

791
00:35:27,638 --> 00:35:30,038
Speaker 4: to him about exactly what I observed the last time,

792
00:35:30,358 --> 00:35:32,558
Speaker 4: but that this is all part of it, man. So

793
00:35:33,478 --> 00:35:36,518
Speaker 4: if Williams really understood what they were saying truly and

794
00:35:36,638 --> 00:35:43,118
Speaker 4: could incorporate that into his armstroke again, you might see

795
00:35:43,118 --> 00:35:45,638
Speaker 4: that devastating stuff you saw at in Milwaukee, because it.

796
00:35:45,638 --> 00:35:49,278
Speaker 3: Was well along those lines. And this dovetails with the

797
00:35:49,278 --> 00:35:50,998
Speaker 3: New York Mets. They're sort of on the clock at

798
00:35:50,998 --> 00:35:53,038
Speaker 3: this point in the post. He's in the off season, right.

799
00:35:53,118 --> 00:35:56,438
Speaker 3: I mean, it's you lose Diaz, you traded Nemo for

800
00:35:56,598 --> 00:35:59,518
Speaker 3: Marcus Simeon, and you may be holding the line and

801
00:35:59,558 --> 00:36:02,678
Speaker 3: losing Pete Alonzo. So they are a team to watch,

802
00:36:02,718 --> 00:36:05,478
Speaker 3: no question about it, especially as the Dodgers and Phillies

803
00:36:05,518 --> 00:36:06,598
Speaker 3: continue to load.

804
00:36:06,438 --> 00:36:08,678
Speaker 2: Up, because that's your competition if you're the Mets.

805
00:36:09,998 --> 00:36:12,838
Speaker 3: But the Simeon trade was really interesting, And I know

806
00:36:12,878 --> 00:36:15,438
Speaker 3: we talked about this, Joe, but you know, in talking

807
00:36:15,438 --> 00:36:17,478
Speaker 3: to David Stearns about this, he just felt that the

808
00:36:17,518 --> 00:36:20,238
Speaker 3: minor league system was loaded with outfielders like backed up

809
00:36:20,278 --> 00:36:22,678
Speaker 3: behind Nimo, who had five years left on his contract,

810
00:36:23,198 --> 00:36:25,158
Speaker 3: and that's not going to be a pretty contract at

811
00:36:25,158 --> 00:36:25,678
Speaker 3: the end of it.

812
00:36:25,878 --> 00:36:28,158
Speaker 2: I think we all know that, so now is the

813
00:36:28,198 --> 00:36:28,798
Speaker 2: time to move.

814
00:36:28,838 --> 00:36:31,558
Speaker 3: But I asked him about Simeon, and this gets back

815
00:36:31,598 --> 00:36:34,638
Speaker 3: to what people now see with technology and the idea

816
00:36:34,638 --> 00:36:37,638
Speaker 3: that you're going to fix somebody. Is Simeon's playing second

817
00:36:37,718 --> 00:36:40,758
Speaker 3: base now what thirty five, thirty six, And we talked

818
00:36:40,798 --> 00:36:42,278
Speaker 3: about this. You've got to go all the way back

819
00:36:42,318 --> 00:36:45,078
Speaker 3: to ben Zoebers a decade ago to find a second

820
00:36:45,118 --> 00:36:49,398
Speaker 3: basement at that age who was even average offensively. And

821
00:36:49,758 --> 00:36:52,398
Speaker 3: the trend for Marcus Simeon right now not good as

822
00:36:52,438 --> 00:36:53,118
Speaker 3: you would expect.

823
00:36:53,318 --> 00:36:56,838
Speaker 2: Middle infielders go quickly in their mid thirties is a.

824
00:36:56,838 --> 00:36:59,798
Speaker 3: Fact of baseball life, especially those who played as much

825
00:36:59,918 --> 00:37:04,238
Speaker 3: as Marcus Simeon. But Stearns told me that in looking

826
00:37:04,318 --> 00:37:08,678
Speaker 3: at the hitting and swing metrics specifically not approach, but

827
00:37:08,758 --> 00:37:13,238
Speaker 3: swing metrics for Simeon, they saw something there that they

828
00:37:13,278 --> 00:37:15,758
Speaker 3: think they can fix and get them back to the

829
00:37:15,838 --> 00:37:16,638
Speaker 3: all star level.

830
00:37:16,918 --> 00:37:17,558
Speaker 2: So there you go.

831
00:37:18,118 --> 00:37:21,758
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how it works. I mean, everybody, we always feel.

832
00:37:21,558 --> 00:37:22,798
Speaker 5: Like we have the answer.

833
00:37:22,838 --> 00:37:25,118
Speaker 4: We always do this, and I don't know how many

834
00:37:25,158 --> 00:37:27,558
Speaker 4: times I said that in meetings. Well, when he comes

835
00:37:27,598 --> 00:37:29,398
Speaker 4: in our locker room, we're going to make him well,

836
00:37:30,278 --> 00:37:32,278
Speaker 4: I always had a lot of faith in the clubhouse

837
00:37:32,318 --> 00:37:34,798
Speaker 4: culture of the teams that I had, and I thought

838
00:37:34,838 --> 00:37:38,518
Speaker 4: a combination of the acceptance or the guidance of the

839
00:37:38,558 --> 00:37:42,318
Speaker 4: players along with the coaching staff and the information available

840
00:37:42,318 --> 00:37:45,798
Speaker 4: because I knew what the information available was, and I've

841
00:37:45,798 --> 00:37:48,838
Speaker 4: always had a lot of confidence in myself my observation

842
00:37:48,958 --> 00:37:52,078
Speaker 4: skills in regards to breaking baseball movement down. I don't

843
00:37:52,118 --> 00:37:54,998
Speaker 4: care what the position was. It was a picture position player,

844
00:37:55,078 --> 00:37:58,438
Speaker 4: So always they would ask me. I would take videos

845
00:37:58,438 --> 00:37:59,718
Speaker 4: and I would break them down and we'd look at

846
00:37:59,758 --> 00:38:02,118
Speaker 4: him and I would try to give my input too.

847
00:38:02,118 --> 00:38:05,038
Speaker 4: But I think in general, everybody feels I think it

848
00:38:05,118 --> 00:38:08,158
Speaker 4: fixed somebody. Everybody does. We always feel as though we're

849
00:38:08,158 --> 00:38:10,998
Speaker 4: a little bit smarter, and then the guy gets there,

850
00:38:11,038 --> 00:38:13,398
Speaker 4: and sometimes it may occur and sometimes it may not.

851
00:38:13,478 --> 00:38:15,518
Speaker 4: I just it's just a flip of the coin. But

852
00:38:16,838 --> 00:38:20,118
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's their true reasoning for doing that,

853
00:38:20,158 --> 00:38:22,958
Speaker 4: because the contracts were pretty heavy, and they were pretty

854
00:38:22,998 --> 00:38:25,518
Speaker 4: late in their careers overall, and them a little bit

855
00:38:25,518 --> 00:38:28,278
Speaker 4: earlier Sime and he really came on later.

856
00:38:28,638 --> 00:38:29,558
Speaker 5: And who knows, I.

857
00:38:29,518 --> 00:38:33,118
Speaker 4: Mean, how we liken him at second base because he

858
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:34,438
Speaker 4: still move at second base or not.

859
00:38:34,678 --> 00:38:37,638
Speaker 3: Yeah, really, well, defensive metrics at least, and just the

860
00:38:37,678 --> 00:38:42,078
Speaker 3: eyeball test is defensively yeah, it's really the big upside

861
00:38:42,118 --> 00:38:43,278
Speaker 3: here for the Mets getting him.

862
00:38:43,638 --> 00:38:46,038
Speaker 4: I thought, maybe, you know, with if Alonso goes, do

863
00:38:46,078 --> 00:38:48,038
Speaker 4: they like somebody else at second base and talk about

864
00:38:48,078 --> 00:38:49,838
Speaker 4: moving him in the first base kind of a thing

865
00:38:49,878 --> 00:38:52,318
Speaker 4: and just slit him hit and play first base. Is

866
00:38:52,358 --> 00:38:54,158
Speaker 4: that's something in the back of their minds. Also, I

867
00:38:54,158 --> 00:38:58,198
Speaker 4: don't know, but I've always liked Simey and I I

868
00:38:58,278 --> 00:39:01,318
Speaker 4: really you know, I thought in the first when he

869
00:39:01,358 --> 00:39:03,838
Speaker 4: was at shortstop, but Oakland, I thought his defense was overplayed.

870
00:39:04,358 --> 00:39:07,838
Speaker 4: When he went to Texas in the beginning, I really

871
00:39:07,838 --> 00:39:10,278
Speaker 4: thought his offense made his defense look better. And I

872
00:39:10,318 --> 00:39:14,438
Speaker 4: haven't seen him enough in the more recently.

873
00:39:14,118 --> 00:39:16,678
Speaker 5: And I have to look at it. But the guy

874
00:39:16,718 --> 00:39:17,118
Speaker 5: can hit.

875
00:39:17,198 --> 00:39:17,358
Speaker 3: Man.

876
00:39:17,358 --> 00:39:19,638
Speaker 4: When I saw him, this guy can hit the ball,

877
00:39:19,798 --> 00:39:23,038
Speaker 4: jumped really jumped, and when he got hot, he got

878
00:39:23,158 --> 00:39:25,758
Speaker 4: like uber hot. This guy was like on a different

879
00:39:25,758 --> 00:39:28,518
Speaker 4: planet when he gets hot. So I don't know, And maybe,

880
00:39:29,118 --> 00:39:30,758
Speaker 4: you know, give him some days off. I mean, that's

881
00:39:30,798 --> 00:39:33,358
Speaker 4: another thing. When the guy gets that age, maybe plan

882
00:39:33,558 --> 00:39:36,718
Speaker 4: in more days off to keep Fresher talked to him

883
00:39:36,718 --> 00:39:40,318
Speaker 4: about maybe swinging less regards to his work and how

884
00:39:40,318 --> 00:39:42,438
Speaker 4: many swings he takes on a daily basis, all those

885
00:39:42,478 --> 00:39:43,398
Speaker 4: things would be a factor.

886
00:39:43,438 --> 00:39:46,998
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, there's other signings, of course, and maybe

887
00:39:46,998 --> 00:39:48,798
Speaker 3: not as large as this, but there's one I want

888
00:39:48,838 --> 00:39:52,558
Speaker 3: to talk about, smaller market team under the radar signing

889
00:39:52,598 --> 00:39:55,278
Speaker 3: who they seem to hit on these signings all the time.

890
00:39:55,598 --> 00:39:57,878
Speaker 2: We'll talk about that and get Joe's.

891
00:39:57,638 --> 00:40:00,038
Speaker 3: A thought of the day right after this break on

892
00:40:00,078 --> 00:40:05,998
Speaker 3: the Book of Joe.

893
00:40:14,718 --> 00:40:16,158
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

894
00:40:16,238 --> 00:40:19,678
Speaker 3: I was looking at the Rays signing Stephen Metz Joe,

895
00:40:19,718 --> 00:40:23,118
Speaker 3: and they have a history of just you know, acquiring people,

896
00:40:23,198 --> 00:40:27,158
Speaker 3: sometimes in trades, but even lower level free agent deals,

897
00:40:27,158 --> 00:40:29,878
Speaker 3: and the guy's stuff just plays up. Stephen Mattz, he's

898
00:40:29,918 --> 00:40:32,558
Speaker 3: been around a while. It's a very interesting career to me.

899
00:40:32,998 --> 00:40:36,198
Speaker 3: He actually pitched really well for the Red Sox after

900
00:40:36,238 --> 00:40:38,398
Speaker 3: he was traded from Saint Louis last year down the

901
00:40:38,438 --> 00:40:41,638
Speaker 3: stretch and pitched some high leverage spots for Alex Korra

902
00:40:41,798 --> 00:40:44,958
Speaker 3: and did well. And it's sort of been his career Joe,

903
00:40:44,958 --> 00:40:50,278
Speaker 3: where Stephen Metz has at times looked really good but

904
00:40:50,358 --> 00:40:52,758
Speaker 3: you look at the entirety of his career and you

905
00:40:52,798 --> 00:40:55,598
Speaker 3: remember the hullabaloo when he signed or first came up

906
00:40:55,598 --> 00:40:57,198
Speaker 3: with the Mets and was so good, so early.

907
00:40:58,758 --> 00:41:03,118
Speaker 2: But his adjusted e E ra Plus.

908
00:41:02,958 --> 00:41:04,758
Speaker 3: Is in ninety eight, which means he's been a little

909
00:41:04,798 --> 00:41:07,878
Speaker 3: bit below average in the course of his career. But

910
00:41:08,038 --> 00:41:10,398
Speaker 3: get this, he's signed a two year deal for fifteen

911
00:41:10,438 --> 00:41:14,558
Speaker 3: million dollars. That's going to bring his career earnings to

912
00:41:14,838 --> 00:41:19,638
Speaker 3: seventy three million dollars. Steven Mattz, I know he's left handed,

913
00:41:20,118 --> 00:41:23,118
Speaker 3: and I know he has started and he's lasted long

914
00:41:23,238 --> 00:41:27,318
Speaker 3: enough to cruise service time like this. But that's the

915
00:41:27,398 --> 00:41:29,918
Speaker 3: name of the game, is it lasts long enough, and

916
00:41:29,958 --> 00:41:32,598
Speaker 3: they'll keep throwing contracts at you. I remember years ago

917
00:41:32,798 --> 00:41:37,038
Speaker 3: Rick Honeycutt, left handed reliever at the time, he said,

918
00:41:37,158 --> 00:41:39,638
Speaker 3: you know what, I wanted to retire, but they kept

919
00:41:39,638 --> 00:41:40,958
Speaker 3: offering me contracts.

920
00:41:41,478 --> 00:41:43,438
Speaker 2: He kept coming back on one year deals.

921
00:41:43,518 --> 00:41:44,118
Speaker 5: It's funny.

922
00:41:44,438 --> 00:41:46,118
Speaker 4: Well, I was just thinking that there's got to be

923
00:41:46,158 --> 00:41:49,638
Speaker 4: a lot of old pros out there looking at Mats's accomplishments,

924
00:41:50,198 --> 00:41:53,038
Speaker 4: and you know, they start playing the math game. Had

925
00:41:53,078 --> 00:41:54,878
Speaker 4: they been born at a different time. I mean, it's

926
00:41:54,878 --> 00:41:58,158
Speaker 4: just amazing. Like even a Dylan ceized the amount of

927
00:41:58,198 --> 00:42:00,078
Speaker 4: money this guy's getting. I know he's got a great arm,

928
00:42:00,118 --> 00:42:02,878
Speaker 4: I get it, but overall numbers are not you know,

929
00:42:02,958 --> 00:42:07,318
Speaker 4: Hall of Famous esque, but the salary certainly is. So Yeah,

930
00:42:07,358 --> 00:42:10,958
Speaker 4: that's be regardless. I like, I've always liked Matt's I

931
00:42:11,038 --> 00:42:12,878
Speaker 4: did when he was coming up. I thought he saw

932
00:42:12,958 --> 00:42:15,478
Speaker 4: like Jerry Kusman, John Matt Lack, you know, all the

933
00:42:15,478 --> 00:42:18,518
Speaker 4: mets of Yesteryear. I really liked him a lot. I

934
00:42:18,558 --> 00:42:19,838
Speaker 4: like the way the ball came out of his hand.

935
00:42:19,838 --> 00:42:22,278
Speaker 4: I liked his breaking ball. I didn't know him a

936
00:42:22,278 --> 00:42:24,198
Speaker 4: whole lot. If he broke good in a game, man,

937
00:42:24,278 --> 00:42:26,758
Speaker 4: heads up, you're you're not getting nothing. So I don't

938
00:42:26,758 --> 00:42:28,598
Speaker 4: know if there was some kind of issues with what

939
00:42:28,678 --> 00:42:30,678
Speaker 4: he was sneaking and how he went about, you know,

940
00:42:30,718 --> 00:42:33,838
Speaker 4: the mental game. But nevertheless, I really liked his stuff.

941
00:42:33,878 --> 00:42:37,198
Speaker 4: And yeah, it makes for the race perspective. It makes

942
00:42:37,318 --> 00:42:40,198
Speaker 4: a lot of sense. He's there, he is there, He's

943
00:42:40,238 --> 00:42:42,638
Speaker 4: their kind of guy. He's there, Huckleberry man. This is

944
00:42:42,678 --> 00:42:47,598
Speaker 4: the kind of guy they're looking for, and with good health.

945
00:42:47,638 --> 00:42:50,478
Speaker 4: And I'm sure they did their due diligence on that.

946
00:42:50,558 --> 00:42:51,638
Speaker 4: I think it's a good sign.

947
00:42:51,718 --> 00:42:52,718
Speaker 5: I like this guy.

948
00:42:52,758 --> 00:42:54,598
Speaker 4: I don't know what they have in mind right there,

949
00:42:55,238 --> 00:42:57,518
Speaker 4: but as if you're going to fill in the rest

950
00:42:57,558 --> 00:42:59,798
Speaker 4: of your pitching staff with some veteran guys that may

951
00:42:59,838 --> 00:43:02,678
Speaker 4: still have some upside, I would put in probably at

952
00:43:02,678 --> 00:43:03,438
Speaker 4: the top of a list.

953
00:43:03,718 --> 00:43:06,398
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, especially because he's a good swing guy.

954
00:43:06,638 --> 00:43:10,118
Speaker 3: You know, he's starting pitching depth, he's you know, I

955
00:43:10,118 --> 00:43:13,438
Speaker 3: don't think they have especially long guys like they used to,

956
00:43:13,598 --> 00:43:15,638
Speaker 3: but he's a multiple inning relief guy.

957
00:43:15,878 --> 00:43:18,198
Speaker 2: He can do a lot of different things. So yeah,

958
00:43:18,278 --> 00:43:18,798
Speaker 2: good addition.

959
00:43:18,838 --> 00:43:21,998
Speaker 3: And by the way, the Rays tell everybody that the

960
00:43:22,038 --> 00:43:24,838
Speaker 3: repairs of the TRUP are on schedule, that they will

961
00:43:24,838 --> 00:43:27,238
Speaker 3: be back home next year at the Trap.

962
00:43:27,318 --> 00:43:29,638
Speaker 2: After let's face it really difficult year.

963
00:43:29,718 --> 00:43:31,798
Speaker 3: Kudos for that team for just grinding through it, But

964
00:43:32,038 --> 00:43:34,158
Speaker 3: for me, Joe, the schedule caught up to the Rays

965
00:43:34,198 --> 00:43:37,358
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty five, eight home games in July, only

966
00:43:37,438 --> 00:43:41,798
Speaker 3: eight in August. The ballpark played really small. The Rays

967
00:43:41,838 --> 00:43:44,478
Speaker 3: are not built that way to win those kind of games.

968
00:43:45,838 --> 00:43:48,238
Speaker 3: They pitch well in that ballpark. I always thought it

969
00:43:48,278 --> 00:43:51,238
Speaker 3: was especially dark at the trop and I thought it'd

970
00:43:51,278 --> 00:43:51,878
Speaker 3: helped pitching.

971
00:43:52,918 --> 00:43:54,838
Speaker 2: So they'll be count on it.

972
00:43:54,878 --> 00:43:57,398
Speaker 3: Man, they'll have a bounce back season after what seventy

973
00:43:57,438 --> 00:44:02,438
Speaker 3: seven wins in twenty five. Getting home is you'll see

974
00:44:02,478 --> 00:44:04,398
Speaker 3: the truer version of the Rays, I believe.

975
00:44:04,918 --> 00:44:06,838
Speaker 4: I drive by there often on my way to Saint

976
00:44:06,878 --> 00:44:09,678
Speaker 4: Pete Country Club and the roof's up, and what you

977
00:44:09,718 --> 00:44:12,518
Speaker 4: see are these dudes up there with like little orange

978
00:44:12,678 --> 00:44:15,278
Speaker 4: tops on. They look like ants on the top. You

979
00:44:15,358 --> 00:44:18,478
Speaker 4: realize how massive the top of that building is when

980
00:44:18,518 --> 00:44:20,198
Speaker 4: you see a human up there. I don't know if

981
00:44:20,198 --> 00:44:22,278
Speaker 4: they're sewing it together, whatever they're doing to put that.

982
00:44:22,358 --> 00:44:24,558
Speaker 4: I think it's a it was tough on I think

983
00:44:24,598 --> 00:44:26,838
Speaker 4: back in the past, but it's looking you know, it's

984
00:44:26,878 --> 00:44:30,398
Speaker 4: real clean. It's looking good. No reasona believe they're not

985
00:44:30,438 --> 00:44:32,158
Speaker 4: going to be on time. I don't know what the

986
00:44:32,198 --> 00:44:34,518
Speaker 4: field looks like below, what's going on inside the building,

987
00:44:34,518 --> 00:44:36,558
Speaker 4: but from the top, it's kind of fascinating to watch.

988
00:44:36,558 --> 00:44:39,718
Speaker 4: Every time you see somebody up there doing some kind

989
00:44:39,758 --> 00:44:41,558
Speaker 4: of work in an orange top and they got to

990
00:44:41,598 --> 00:44:43,118
Speaker 4: be tethered to the roof because it is.

991
00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:44,758
Speaker 5: That's got to be scary. Man.

992
00:44:44,798 --> 00:44:47,238
Speaker 4: You cannot pay me enough money to do something like that,

993
00:44:48,198 --> 00:44:50,878
Speaker 4: you know, So kudos to those guys. But from what

994
00:44:50,958 --> 00:44:52,758
Speaker 4: I'm seeing naked eye, looks like it's going to be

995
00:44:52,838 --> 00:44:53,238
Speaker 4: just fine.

996
00:44:53,398 --> 00:44:53,718
Speaker 2: All right.

997
00:44:53,758 --> 00:44:55,838
Speaker 3: We spent a lot of time talking about Edwin Diaz.

998
00:44:55,878 --> 00:44:58,758
Speaker 3: Now it's handing the ball to our closer, Joe Madden.

999
00:44:58,798 --> 00:45:00,118
Speaker 3: What do you got for us this week? Got the

1000
00:45:00,118 --> 00:45:00,678
Speaker 3: Book of Joe?

1001
00:45:00,718 --> 00:45:01,558
Speaker 5: You know, thought about it.

1002
00:45:01,558 --> 00:45:03,118
Speaker 4: And again it's like this time of the year where

1003
00:45:03,118 --> 00:45:07,758
Speaker 4: it's like going on and you know, conversationally and you

1004
00:45:07,798 --> 00:45:10,118
Speaker 4: know what's going on over there at the winter meetings,

1005
00:45:10,158 --> 00:45:13,838
Speaker 4: things like that. And again with the advent of you know,

1006
00:45:13,878 --> 00:45:15,798
Speaker 4: the analytics, we've talked about that. We've mentioned it like

1007
00:45:15,958 --> 00:45:18,958
Speaker 4: trying to fix somebody's mechanics. A lot of it relies

1008
00:45:18,958 --> 00:45:21,518
Speaker 4: on tech et cetera. So I know recently you and

1009
00:45:21,518 --> 00:45:24,718
Speaker 4: I had spoken about I told you about this lady Laurahong.

1010
00:45:24,678 --> 00:45:25,758
Speaker 5: That I have been in touch with.

1011
00:45:25,838 --> 00:45:28,278
Speaker 4: She wrote the book you already know, and it's pretty

1012
00:45:28,318 --> 00:45:33,398
Speaker 4: much about the intuitive process, gut feeling, intuition, et cetera.

1013
00:45:33,798 --> 00:45:35,238
Speaker 5: So I just if you don't mind.

1014
00:45:35,118 --> 00:45:39,038
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna read like a paragraph and it was

1015
00:45:39,038 --> 00:45:43,518
Speaker 4: from the title of the paragraph was who who is

1016
00:45:43,598 --> 00:45:44,198
Speaker 4: gut feel?

1017
00:45:44,478 --> 00:45:46,598
Speaker 5: I thought that was kind of cool and just.

1018
00:45:46,718 --> 00:45:51,278
Speaker 4: Briefly, if gut feel is the outcome and intuition is

1019
00:45:51,318 --> 00:45:54,798
Speaker 4: the process, then there must be an individual in whom

1020
00:45:54,958 --> 00:45:58,918
Speaker 4: this is taking place. Gut feel is you. As a professor,

1021
00:45:58,998 --> 00:46:01,438
Speaker 4: This is from her. She's a professor at Northeastern University

1022
00:46:01,438 --> 00:46:04,598
Speaker 4: and Boston. As a professor, I often say to my students,

1023
00:46:05,038 --> 00:46:07,678
Speaker 4: the most beautiful story you ever tell should be the

1024
00:46:07,718 --> 00:46:10,718
Speaker 4: story of who you are and the collection of all

1025
00:46:10,758 --> 00:46:14,198
Speaker 4: you love. Gut feel is informed by the entirety of

1026
00:46:14,198 --> 00:46:21,238
Speaker 4: your lived experience, your knowledge, observations, background, memories, truths, relationships, feelings,

1027
00:46:21,638 --> 00:46:26,958
Speaker 4: emotional intelligence, disappointments, losses, and trauma. Gut feel is you

1028
00:46:27,038 --> 00:46:30,918
Speaker 4: because it stems from your individual interpretation of the external

1029
00:46:30,998 --> 00:46:33,918
Speaker 4: data that you are receiving and acquiring, and is the

1030
00:46:33,958 --> 00:46:39,718
Speaker 4: culmination of everything that takes place during your intuiting process.

1031
00:46:40,718 --> 00:46:43,198
Speaker 4: The gut feel breakthrough as you have will be distinct

1032
00:46:43,358 --> 00:46:47,438
Speaker 4: and personal, specific to just you. They cannot be explained,

1033
00:46:47,878 --> 00:46:53,198
Speaker 4: they cannot be transferred. God, I believe all that when

1034
00:46:53,198 --> 00:46:57,318
Speaker 4: I read that the stuff that we talk about and

1035
00:46:57,358 --> 00:47:01,118
Speaker 4: to me, when you are able to overlay that over

1036
00:47:01,278 --> 00:47:07,118
Speaker 4: data information, then you really got an exciting process that

1037
00:47:07,158 --> 00:47:10,158
Speaker 4: can really benefit whether it's you personally or you as

1038
00:47:10,158 --> 00:47:13,758
Speaker 4: a group, as we're talking baseball as an organization. She

1039
00:47:13,878 --> 00:47:18,798
Speaker 4: really does a wonderful job of describing and defining what

1040
00:47:18,958 --> 00:47:21,878
Speaker 4: all of this is. She puts it in some really plain,

1041
00:47:22,358 --> 00:47:27,278
Speaker 4: wonderful language. And I'm saying all this because you know,

1042
00:47:27,478 --> 00:47:31,078
Speaker 4: we've gotten so far off the path where people like

1043
00:47:31,918 --> 00:47:35,798
Speaker 4: nobody really wants to give credit to this method of

1044
00:47:35,878 --> 00:47:39,038
Speaker 4: decision making. It only has to go. Credit always seems

1045
00:47:39,078 --> 00:47:42,958
Speaker 4: to want to go just to numbers, math, data, and

1046
00:47:43,158 --> 00:47:44,518
Speaker 4: and and tech those.

1047
00:47:44,438 --> 00:47:44,958
Speaker 5: Kinds of things.

1048
00:47:44,958 --> 00:47:48,518
Speaker 4: And you know, AI is going to really personify that

1049
00:47:48,598 --> 00:47:52,638
Speaker 4: even more so. I've spoken with this woman. We're going

1050
00:47:52,678 --> 00:47:54,278
Speaker 4: to try to get her on the show at some point.

1051
00:47:54,918 --> 00:47:56,918
Speaker 4: I love my conversations with her, and what I'll do

1052
00:47:56,958 --> 00:47:59,758
Speaker 4: as a reader book on my iPad and I'll highlight

1053
00:47:59,878 --> 00:48:02,798
Speaker 4: some things and then I'll write my interpretation and send

1054
00:48:02,878 --> 00:48:05,038
Speaker 4: it to her and she gets right back to me.

1055
00:48:05,838 --> 00:48:08,798
Speaker 4: I just think that we can't get away from this,

1056
00:48:09,358 --> 00:48:11,238
Speaker 4: and we're on the verge of getting away from this

1057
00:48:11,358 --> 00:48:15,118
Speaker 4: kind of thinking or interpretation of who we are because

1058
00:48:15,118 --> 00:48:20,638
Speaker 4: we're just handing over everything to math and information and

1059
00:48:20,718 --> 00:48:24,918
Speaker 4: machines and computers whatever however you want to describe it

1060
00:48:25,318 --> 00:48:27,558
Speaker 4: and I don't think that's right, and I'm really concerned

1061
00:48:27,598 --> 00:48:30,718
Speaker 4: about that. So if you really want to check into

1062
00:48:30,758 --> 00:48:33,638
Speaker 4: a really good book that makes a lot of sense

1063
00:48:33,718 --> 00:48:37,278
Speaker 4: and is really well written and research larahuang.

1064
00:48:36,958 --> 00:48:39,398
Speaker 5: H u a n G, you already know.

1065
00:48:39,798 --> 00:48:41,518
Speaker 4: And so I thought it might be a good day

1066
00:48:41,558 --> 00:48:44,398
Speaker 4: to throw that out there based on the Winter meetings

1067
00:48:44,398 --> 00:48:46,518
Speaker 4: and how decisions are being made.

1068
00:48:46,638 --> 00:48:48,998
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and thanks for those words, Joe, and I think

1069
00:48:49,038 --> 00:48:51,318
Speaker 3: your own words are important here too, and mentioning. I

1070
00:48:51,318 --> 00:48:54,238
Speaker 3: think you use the term overlay. You can use the

1071
00:48:54,238 --> 00:48:57,918
Speaker 3: word blended as well. It should not be a case

1072
00:48:57,958 --> 00:49:02,158
Speaker 3: of either or where we are and unfortunately, we are

1073
00:49:02,198 --> 00:49:06,798
Speaker 3: in the process of doing this, placing emotional intelligence with

1074
00:49:07,078 --> 00:49:11,678
Speaker 3: artificial intelligence, and we're doing that blindly. We're raising now

1075
00:49:11,798 --> 00:49:16,078
Speaker 3: generation of young students who are just automatically and the

1076
00:49:16,078 --> 00:49:20,958
Speaker 3: word is automatically, going to check GPT to outsource their

1077
00:49:20,998 --> 00:49:24,598
Speaker 3: own critical thinking, give me the answer, plug it in.

1078
00:49:25,078 --> 00:49:26,838
Speaker 2: I don't have to do the work.

1079
00:49:28,198 --> 00:49:31,998
Speaker 3: It's super important to realize that, yeah, technology is great.

1080
00:49:32,078 --> 00:49:35,198
Speaker 3: No one's talking about shunning it and being a luddite here.

1081
00:49:35,758 --> 00:49:39,758
Speaker 3: It's about blending the emotional intelligence with the breakthroughs that

1082
00:49:39,798 --> 00:49:44,518
Speaker 3: we've had with technology, and for some reason, people just

1083
00:49:44,638 --> 00:49:48,318
Speaker 3: can't hold both concepts in their head for the most part.

1084
00:49:48,358 --> 00:49:49,918
Speaker 2: And we're going a.

1085
00:49:49,838 --> 00:49:55,078
Speaker 3: Little too fast, too far in on the artificial intelligence

1086
00:49:55,118 --> 00:49:58,638
Speaker 3: side for me anyway, especially when it comes to our young.

1087
00:49:58,518 --> 00:50:04,718
Speaker 4: People expediency making things easier. Okay, where do I like

1088
00:50:04,798 --> 00:50:07,958
Speaker 4: that in my life? I do like you the internet

1089
00:50:07,998 --> 00:50:08,758
Speaker 4: to research things.

1090
00:50:08,798 --> 00:50:10,118
Speaker 2: I don't have to look at it another DMV.

1091
00:50:10,518 --> 00:50:13,198
Speaker 5: Yeah, right there you go. That'd be awesome. But I

1092
00:50:13,238 --> 00:50:14,798
Speaker 5: don't have to, Like I don't have to go to

1093
00:50:14,838 --> 00:50:15,558
Speaker 5: the shelf.

1094
00:50:15,278 --> 00:50:17,878
Speaker 4: And get an Encyclopedia Britannic. It'll look something up right,

1095
00:50:18,438 --> 00:50:21,358
Speaker 4: it's right here. We're talking through it right now. And

1096
00:50:21,398 --> 00:50:24,558
Speaker 4: that's a wonderful thing. But even like back in the

1097
00:50:24,638 --> 00:50:26,718
Speaker 4: day libraries you have to go through those little cards

1098
00:50:26,758 --> 00:50:28,838
Speaker 4: and research in the library, find the book, et cetera.

1099
00:50:29,078 --> 00:50:31,318
Speaker 5: You have to work to get your information. Is that

1100
00:50:31,358 --> 00:50:31,958
Speaker 5: good or bad?

1101
00:50:32,038 --> 00:50:34,678
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I know from my own personal

1102
00:50:35,758 --> 00:50:38,678
Speaker 4: journey and when Uncle Chuck turned me onto reading Centennial

1103
00:50:38,678 --> 00:50:41,358
Speaker 4: in the mid seventies, that opened my mind, and that

1104
00:50:41,478 --> 00:50:46,558
Speaker 4: really made me a more creative person, a more curious person.

1105
00:50:47,198 --> 00:50:48,998
Speaker 4: And because I sought my own answers, you know, you

1106
00:50:49,038 --> 00:50:51,678
Speaker 4: seek your own answers. And when you do that, it

1107
00:50:51,718 --> 00:50:55,238
Speaker 4: doesn't it apply you to the conclusions. I mean, all

1108
00:50:55,278 --> 00:50:59,718
Speaker 4: this stuff here, you're not creatively trying to find an answer.

1109
00:51:00,038 --> 00:51:03,118
Speaker 4: You're easily looking for an answer. Let somebody else tell

1110
00:51:03,118 --> 00:51:05,078
Speaker 4: me what I want to think. And that's you know,

1111
00:51:05,118 --> 00:51:06,758
Speaker 4: tell me what you think. Now, what you've heard. That's

1112
00:51:06,758 --> 00:51:09,998
Speaker 4: a big part of my existence. And so now it's

1113
00:51:09,998 --> 00:51:12,358
Speaker 4: about I'm gonna tell you what you think and this

1114
00:51:12,438 --> 00:51:15,118
Speaker 4: is this is what you've heard. That's scary. And I

1115
00:51:15,118 --> 00:51:18,678
Speaker 4: don't understand why that's attractive whatsoever. It's a lazy form

1116
00:51:18,718 --> 00:51:22,318
Speaker 4: of being a human being. So I'm I am concerned.

1117
00:51:22,478 --> 00:51:24,718
Speaker 4: I'm concerned. I you know, I watch you listen. I

1118
00:51:24,798 --> 00:51:27,478
Speaker 4: read all this stuff all the time, and.

1119
00:51:27,878 --> 00:51:29,278
Speaker 5: There's it's it's attached.

1120
00:51:29,398 --> 00:51:31,438
Speaker 4: Yes, there's a lot of benefits that there's no question,

1121
00:51:31,478 --> 00:51:33,278
Speaker 4: but it's all of it's attached to power and money,

1122
00:51:33,478 --> 00:51:36,518
Speaker 4: and that's always a scary thing. It's not an altruistic thing.

1123
00:51:36,558 --> 00:51:38,758
Speaker 4: I don't think it was just all about altruism.

1124
00:51:38,798 --> 00:51:39,318
Speaker 5: You give it a.

1125
00:51:39,238 --> 00:51:42,478
Speaker 4: Different grade, but it's more about power and greed and

1126
00:51:42,518 --> 00:51:43,798
Speaker 4: money absolutely too.

1127
00:51:44,198 --> 00:51:45,998
Speaker 5: So that's that's my concern.

1128
00:51:46,598 --> 00:51:49,598
Speaker 4: And to think that people are just going to blindly

1129
00:51:49,638 --> 00:51:53,038
Speaker 4: adopt it without challenging the concepts or what's really going

1130
00:51:53,078 --> 00:51:53,478
Speaker 4: to happen.

1131
00:51:54,118 --> 00:51:55,878
Speaker 5: That is a very naive approach.

1132
00:51:56,278 --> 00:51:58,878
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's scary to allow the machine to be doing

1133
00:51:59,038 --> 00:52:03,638
Speaker 3: learning because when you're using automation to quote unquote learn things,

1134
00:52:04,038 --> 00:52:07,038
Speaker 3: actually just borrowing that intelligence. As you mentioned, Joe, when

1135
00:52:07,078 --> 00:52:09,718
Speaker 3: you have to do the work yourself, you're actually absorbing

1136
00:52:09,758 --> 00:52:11,878
Speaker 3: it and learning it. It's part of who you are,

1137
00:52:12,038 --> 00:52:15,758
Speaker 3: as you referred to, so really important stuff. Appreciate all

1138
00:52:15,798 --> 00:52:17,558
Speaker 3: those words, Joe, Thank you brother.

1139
00:52:17,478 --> 00:52:19,878
Speaker 2: Great stuff. We'll see you next time on the Book

1140
00:52:19,878 --> 00:52:20,198
Speaker 2: of Joe.

1141
00:52:20,318 --> 00:52:28,878
Speaker 4: All right, Tommy, see you later, buddy.

1142
00:52:23,598 --> 00:52:32,758
Speaker 1: And The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1143
00:52:32,958 --> 00:52:37,958
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1144
00:52:38,078 --> 00:52:39,838
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