Speaker 1: Episode three point fifty three Managing Money with Chronic Illness
Speaker 1: with doctor Andrea Figel.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Brugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live your life. Here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Rugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
Speaker 1: name is Jell. And today we are talking with doctor
Speaker 1: Andrea Figel, who is an expert in chronic illness and
Speaker 1: the economic burden and kind of closing the gap between
Speaker 1: that and accessing care for all of our listeners with
Speaker 1: chronic illnesses and all of our listeners who love someone
Speaker 1: or care about someone with a chronic illness. And this
Speaker 1: was just a great, great interview I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: share with.
Speaker 3: You, really really beautiful. Please do stay with us because
Speaker 3: just heartfelt. You can sense it from doctor Feigel just
Speaker 3: the entire time of her understanding of chronic illness, all
Speaker 3: of the different layers and nuances associated the micro level,
Speaker 3: the macro level. So we're gonna we're gonna hear it all.
Speaker 3: And as we discovered through the episode, chances are every
Speaker 3: single one of us does have somebody, a friend, a
Speaker 3: family member, or ourselves managing a chronic illness. So yeah,
Speaker 3: this episode really is for everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so for those who aren't familiar with like the
Speaker 1: term chronic illness, what we're talking about when we say
Speaker 1: that is stuff like heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, obesity, arthritis.
Speaker 1: This is that's what how the CDC gives examples of it.
Speaker 1: There's also als Alzheimer's arthritis as much stuff that is
Speaker 1: ongoing and it is chrome in nature, not acute, So
Speaker 1: that could be anything, whether it's from childhood or developed
Speaker 1: over time. We're going to cover. We're not talking about
Speaker 1: any specific illness, We're talking about it in a broader form.
Speaker 1: Anybody with any of these will hopefully get something out
Speaker 1: of today's episode. But before we get into this episode,
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Speaker 3: Letter, Mike Drop. You do your best work on the spot.
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Speaker 1: Actually go follow us yes at Frugal Friends podcast if
Speaker 1: this is a topic that is of interest to you
Speaker 1: for any reason. We have another episode that is pretty
Speaker 1: in line with this one, Negotiating medical bills with doctor
Speaker 1: Vergie Bright Ellington.
Speaker 3: She is a.
Speaker 1: Doctor who now specializes in patient advocacy for We talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about negotiating medical debt but it's really
Speaker 1: about negotiating medical bills. That's episode two thirty and we
Speaker 1: will mention it later in the episode. But episode three
Speaker 1: thirty six, how to get health and self care services
Speaker 1: for free or low cost, that will be a good
Speaker 1: one to listen to after this one, because we mention
Speaker 1: it at a certain point. Let's do it, Doctor Feigel,
Speaker 1: Welcome to Frugal Friends. We're so excited to have you
Speaker 1: here to talk about this topic.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me, and I'm just as
Speaker 4: excited as you are.
Speaker 3: This is a really important conversation, I think, and one
Speaker 3: that Jen and I know we're not experts in, which
Speaker 3: is why we love to bring the experts on. So
Speaker 3: we are so thrilled to have you here and to
Speaker 3: learn from you. And just as we get started, I'm
Speaker 3: curious if we can begin here of talking about some
Speaker 3: of the extra expenses that might be associated with chronic illness.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that those who are listening who have chronic
Speaker 3: illness kind of know of this, and so maybe just
Speaker 3: hearing someone name it for them is going to be helpful.
Speaker 3: But also for those of us who do not, but
Speaker 3: we may have friends and family, what can you say
Speaker 3: about some of the additional costs associated with having chronic illness.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Jill for this really really important question.
Speaker 4: And so for those of you who are tuning in,
Speaker 4: I'm a health economist by training and one of the
Speaker 4: we focus at our Health Finance Institute. We focus on
Speaker 4: basically chronic conditions and the impact of the benefits of prevention,
Speaker 4: access and adherence, so which den can both safe health
Speaker 4: as well as expenses at the patient at the systems level.
Speaker 4: So when we look at expenses overall at the systems level,
Speaker 4: if we don't engage early enough in terms of applying
Speaker 4: the evidence that we have and creating access for those
Speaker 4: who are faced with a precursor or already the full
Speaker 4: blown stages of a chronic condition, we are really losing
Speaker 4: a lot of direct and indirect costs. Some of my
Speaker 4: colleagues dita study and it's basically, the costs are so
Speaker 4: high at the societal level in the United States that
Speaker 4: it's like nine percent of the household budget of the US.
Speaker 4: So it's kind of like saying, whatever revenue the government
Speaker 4: generates or the country generates, let's take nine percent off
Speaker 4: of that. And that's what we're dealing with. So if
Speaker 4: you said to anybody on the street, like, that's just
Speaker 4: going to give you an extra nine percent in taxes.
Speaker 4: Let's just taxi income an extra nine percent. Everybody would
Speaker 4: be like that's crazy, Like that's insane, nobody would go
Speaker 4: along with that. But that's what we're experiencing as a
Speaker 4: country here in the States. And so what does it
Speaker 4: mean at the individual level. So from an economic perspective,
Speaker 4: we look at direct costs and indirect costs. So the
Speaker 4: direct costs are thus paying for your medical visits, the services,
Speaker 4: the diagnostics what we call consumable so like the landsets,
Speaker 4: the test strips for example, for glucose measurements and so on.
Speaker 4: And then they are also indirect expenses. So we're paying
Speaker 4: for ill health in two ways. We're not just paying
Speaker 4: with our pocketbook. We're paying in terms of not being
Speaker 4: productive at work, having the miss time for doctor's appointments,
Speaker 4: having additional family members to like, you know, if we're
Speaker 4: all older, helping us, managing appointments, navigating the care system,
Speaker 4: and the list goes on basically as well early retirement
Speaker 4: for example. So when we look at what the costs
Speaker 4: are as economists, we look at both. Back to your question,
Speaker 4: based on you know, often based on the job you have,
Speaker 4: and based on the economic status that allows you to
Speaker 4: basically buy different levels of insurance, right, and based on
Speaker 4: the insurance that you do have, certain things are or
Speaker 4: aren't covered. So you can really be faced with a
Speaker 4: lot of both direct costs than the cost of navigating
Speaker 4: the system, and then the indirect cost of not being
Speaker 4: able to be the most productive version of yourself when
Speaker 4: you're faced with a chronic condition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I often forget that it's not just indirect costs
Speaker 1: for a person with chronic illness, but also for the
Speaker 1: person taking care of them. They also have to sometimes miswork,
Speaker 1: going to procedures and stuff like that. So even if
Speaker 1: you had a partner taking care of you that has income,
Speaker 1: the household income can't be as high. And that's something
Speaker 1: I didn't know until I talk to more people with
Speaker 1: chronic illness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's both for persons with illnesses the caretaking,
Speaker 4: but also as people are aging and most often not
Speaker 4: Actually also that burden can fall on women, the daughters
Speaker 4: and the sisters and their moms, and that actually can
Speaker 4: also lead to women dropping out of the workforce. For example,
Speaker 4: we saw that during the pandemic that premininly moms were
Speaker 4: taking care of the children or sick family members, and
Speaker 4: the labor breaforce participation rate dropped to a level not
Speaker 4: seen for decades because again of the toll of caretaking.
Speaker 4: And I don't have the exact numbers, but sometimes we
Speaker 4: see really like twenty to thirty percent depression in income
Speaker 4: because of these caretaking activities, and also like the health
Speaker 4: toll as well, like the mental illness, not mental illness,
Speaker 4: but the mental burden that comes along, the mental health
Speaker 4: burden that comes with these caretaking activities and the burnout.
Speaker 4: And it's something again that's kind of like a silent
Speaker 4: partner of the chronic disease burden that we see in
Speaker 4: the United States. And there was a big, actually front
Speaker 4: page coverage of the life expectancy is dropping in the
Speaker 4: United States for yet another year in a row.
Speaker 5: And the reason is not just.
Speaker 4: Inequalities, but really like the chronic disease burden, the massively
Speaker 4: chronic disease burden, and social inequalities, and also just a
Speaker 4: lot of the issues around access to care, the affordability
Speaker 4: of care, and the accompaniment of that care by either
Speaker 4: healthcare workers, social workers or family members so you can
Speaker 4: actually adhere, because again, the cost isn't just it is
Speaker 4: you know, it costs you directly, but it also costs
Speaker 4: you on other levels, like socially and in terms of
Speaker 4: your time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I so appreciate what you're saying, and I don't
Speaker 3: necessarily have a question in what I'm about to say,
Speaker 3: but I think it's worth underscoring that indirect cost that
Speaker 3: what your labeling and helping us to be able to identify,
Speaker 3: I think isn't Hopefully we can kind of come to
Speaker 3: some version of solutions, but I think in some ways
Speaker 3: it's just this empathy and freedom and recognition that life
Speaker 3: is not the same for someone managing chronic illness, or
Speaker 3: the caretakers or the partners or the family and the
Speaker 3: friends of those who are managing chronic illness because we
Speaker 3: can't expect the same things. I think sometimes we talk
Speaker 3: in life seasons on this show of sometimes we go
Speaker 3: in and out of seasons where this thing is happening
Speaker 3: or this overwhelming burden has taken place. But what is
Speaker 3: being underlined for me and what you're describing is that
Speaker 3: for someone with chronic illness, it's not just a season,
Speaker 3: it's a lifetime, and I think so much more so
Speaker 3: just space and flexibility and managing of expectations when so
Speaker 3: much of the mainstream conversation about personal finance is going
Speaker 3: to be hustle and get the better job and do
Speaker 3: the side business and meal prep for an entire day
Speaker 3: on a Sunday, and it's just like none of this
Speaker 3: is going to be possible for somebody where there's these
Speaker 3: heavy direct costs, heavy indirect costs. I'm just wanting to
Speaker 3: underscore the importance of what you've just laid out for us,
Speaker 3: because it's it's hitting me hard in this WHOA Okay,
Speaker 3: then then a lot of other things need to shift
Speaker 3: and we can't expect the same things when when the
Speaker 3: circumstances aren't the same.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I I I appreciate you pointing this out.
Speaker 4: And just a complete side note, even in the best
Speaker 4: of days, I've never meal prepped on a Sunday, so.
Speaker 1: We can normalize that across the board.
Speaker 2: We don't need to do that.
Speaker 4: So just if everyone was listening, even in the best
Speaker 4: of times, don't real prep. So but yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: I think and this is really like a system's response, right,
Speaker 4: And I think that I'm sorry if I come back
Speaker 4: to the systems, I always think about, you know, if
Speaker 4: this affects me so deeply, like, how can I make
Speaker 4: sure that we create solutions that if others are in
Speaker 4: the situations And this goes to the empathy our face
Speaker 4: with better options and choices, right, And I think flexible
Speaker 4: work environments right that allow you, like, for example, one
Speaker 4: of our workers, she's managing the care of two people
Speaker 4: in her family. We've created a working environment where as
Speaker 4: long as the work gets done, and there's obviously a
Speaker 4: couple of non negotiables, right that can be integrated, And
Speaker 4: of course we're not a perfect workplace and whatsoever, but
Speaker 4: we're trying to basically say, okay, we understand that this
Speaker 4: amazingly performing individual is also a caretaker of two family
Speaker 4: members that have chronic conditions, So how can we accommodate that.
Speaker 4: So we're not just going out there saying, well, you know,
Speaker 4: look at this crazy chronic disease burden. But actually, like
Speaker 4: for people who are faced with family members who's care
Speaker 4: they are coresponsible.
Speaker 5: Off that they have the ability and I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, you know, I'm sure there's other workplaces to do
Speaker 4: even better things. But I think generally that awareness is say,
Speaker 4: it's okay that we are human beings, and how can
Speaker 4: we still achieve our common goals notwithstanding the fact that
Speaker 4: we're actually in these types of situations or like you know,
Speaker 4: some of our family members maybe in these types of situations.
Speaker 4: I think that you know, if we look at the
Speaker 4: social network, and this is also like, so when I
Speaker 4: start my class in health financing with my students in Georgdown,
Speaker 4: I basically say, like eighty to ninety percent of health
Speaker 4: isn't created in a healthcare system. So we are a
Speaker 4: sickness system, right. The healthcare system takes care of sick people, right,
Speaker 4: So what produces a healthy versus a sick individual? And
Speaker 4: that has a lot to do with the socio economic
Speaker 4: status that a person finds themselves in. So by investing
Speaker 4: in better support structures, and that includes the ability to
Speaker 4: take that walk over lunch, to have access to that
Speaker 4: healthy food, to have coverage to pay for preventative expenses
Speaker 4: and primary care expenses and check ins so that you
Speaker 4: don't just basically start interacting with the healthcare system when
Speaker 4: you're like completely sick, and the cost to just you know,
Speaker 4: it's it's a life or death situation, so we focus
Speaker 4: a lot on what can we invest now person at
Speaker 4: a personal and a societal level, so that we then
Speaker 4: can save in the longer run.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that point.
Speaker 4: It's a notion of frugality but applied to not just
Speaker 4: the individual, but you know, really because and it's you know,
Speaker 4: the funny thing is, if we were frugal about this, right,
Speaker 4: if you say, okay, let's just spend this money on
Speaker 4: these preventative services, private care and the check ins and
Speaker 4: then all that kind of stuff, we would not just
Speaker 4: save money, we would actually help the economy grow over
Speaker 4: time too. So it's kind of this like, why would
Speaker 4: you invest this is what? Actually it's not just good
Speaker 4: for your pocketbook, it's actually good for your economic growth
Speaker 4: in many fold ways.
Speaker 3: Yes, I love what you're describing about just a workplace.
Speaker 3: What we can be aiming for in workplaces at a
Speaker 3: systemic level, what types of workplaces we can even be
Speaker 3: looking for, whether we are managing chronic illness or not
Speaker 3: just advocating for it or creating I mean, I know
Speaker 3: we've got a lot of listeners who are starting their
Speaker 3: own businesses. And one of the reasons Jen and I
Speaker 3: have begun frugal friends and have sought to grow it
Speaker 3: is for that flexibility. And I think that conversation can
Speaker 3: even expand into the much larger population just from parenthood
Speaker 3: perspective and then people caring for their elderly parents. I
Speaker 3: mean pretty much this conversation does hit a lot of
Speaker 3: people in wanting greater flexibility with their work, and so
Speaker 3: I think there could be a lot of reasons to
Speaker 3: look for that or create it in what we're talking
Speaker 3: about here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what you were saying made me think about, like,
Speaker 1: so in work, Yes, that's one place where like you
Speaker 1: can advocate for yourself as a person with chronic illness.
Speaker 1: Are there any other ways that you have seen people
Speaker 1: or recommend people advocate for themselves to create more flexibility
Speaker 1: in their schedule or to save that money in the
Speaker 1: long run, or like anything people with chronic illness can
Speaker 1: do to advocate for themselves, either in those direct or
Speaker 1: indirect expenses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I noticed this is such a powerful question. So
Speaker 4: what we see, like, I think it's understanding what makes
Speaker 4: you adhere to certain treatment schedules and things like that.
Speaker 4: And when you look at, for example, fifty percent of
Speaker 4: persons who have prescribed a drug like met foreman or
Speaker 4: GLP one on what not to, which basically regulates to
Speaker 4: glucose levels, a couple of outo mechanisms when you're time.
Speaker 4: When you have primarily type two diabetes, which again a
Speaker 4: high percentage of Americans are faced with, over fifty percent
Speaker 4: actually drop off their treatment regimen within two years. Right,
Speaker 4: and the question is why and what does this mean? Right?
Speaker 4: It could be financial, Right, people could say, well, this
Speaker 4: is so expensive, I can't afford it, and that needs
Speaker 4: to be looked into and we need to find ways
Speaker 4: to make sure that people can afford it. But there's
Speaker 4: sometimes also like just factors like you know, they're too busy,
Speaker 4: they can't get to the pharmacy on time, they can't
Speaker 4: do this. But even though it might make sense in
Speaker 4: the short run, in the long run, what does this mean.
Speaker 4: It will cost them in terms of health, It will
Speaker 4: it will exacerbate the conditions, It will cost them in
Speaker 4: terms of their productivity. So just try not to be
Speaker 4: penny wise pound foolish. And also I think understanding that
Speaker 4: you know what can help you stick as an individual. Right,
Speaker 4: it's really chronic conditions. The chronicity term of the term
Speaker 4: implies it's over time, it's like, you know, it becomes
Speaker 4: part of your life if it's a lifestyle, and simply
Speaker 4: as you know, if I know I need to go
Speaker 4: to bed on time to perform my best, what helps
Speaker 4: me do that?
Speaker 5: Right? If I know I.
Speaker 4: Need to exercise in order not to get anxiety, then
Speaker 4: what helps me do that? Like I love group exercise classes,
Speaker 4: I love workout buddies, right, And what we have seen
Speaker 4: is that person's with a social network, and we actually
Speaker 4: did studies on like social networks of diabetes and weight
Speaker 4: loss management, they stick much much more strongly to that
Speaker 4: regimen and that actually benefits, you know, the bottom line,
Speaker 4: both for the payer like the assurance, but also for persons.
Speaker 4: So it's in a sense it is frue goal to
Speaker 4: take care of yourself. And I think that is something
Speaker 4: that we see We think we save because we don't
Speaker 4: want to spend on ourselves, but if we actually allow
Speaker 4: ourselves to keep investing in the day to day and
Speaker 4: what's necessary. Again, of course if we can't afford it,
Speaker 4: it makes so much more sense for our health in
Speaker 4: the long run. And I think that in terms of
Speaker 4: like in our person that's faced with having certain prescription
Speaker 4: drugs and a person have certain workout plans and an advocacy.
Speaker 4: I think it's finding a understanding how you're ticking right,
Speaker 4: like what makes your healthy choice the easy choice? And
Speaker 4: maybe we should add what makes the healthy choice the
Speaker 4: cheap choice so you would choose it? So maybe you
Speaker 4: know we need to think about that. How can we
Speaker 4: make health the healthy choice to easy and the cheap choice.
Speaker 3: I love what you're describing.
Speaker 1: I wish this podcast had video like the whole time,
Speaker 1: because Jill and I are just nodding our heads like yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, because we describe frugality as being good stewards
Speaker 3: of all of our resources, and so you're describing our
Speaker 3: own physical resources or resources of whatever medications are available
Speaker 3: to us and beyond and stewarding it well and there
Speaker 3: can be, and not stewarding it well by not making
Speaker 3: use of it, by not taking advantage of it, by
Speaker 3: not investing some of that money to avoid some of
Speaker 3: the higher costs to both our bodies and our wallets
Speaker 3: if we're not doing those things. So I appreciate so
Speaker 3: much of what you're describing in what people can be
Speaker 3: considering for advocacy. I'm also curious if what your knowledge is,
Speaker 3: and recommendations are regarding just other financial assistance that people
Speaker 3: may or may not be aware of, whether government programs
Speaker 3: or other maybe foundations that people might be able to
Speaker 3: access to assist and supplement maybe that beyond what they
Speaker 3: can afford.
Speaker 4: Yeah, again, such an important question is Again like with
Speaker 4: twenty eight million people uninsured in the United States and
Speaker 4: you know, personal bankruptcy, the main reason for it still
Speaker 4: being medical co expenses, you know, And we see healthcare
Speaker 4: as a human rights in our organization, so we really absolutely,
Speaker 4: you know, we feel for them, but we also think
Speaker 4: it's an injustice. But what I've come across recently is
Speaker 4: actually that a lot of pharmaceutical companies have assistance programs
Speaker 4: for accessing their drugs, and I think that maybe something
Speaker 4: that doesn't you know, it's not maybe front page news
Speaker 4: or something like that, but several of the top ten
Speaker 4: pharma companies they actually also assist patients. And that goes
Speaker 4: beyond you know, the pharmacy prescription programs and the couponds
Speaker 4: and this, and that you actually can apply to their
Speaker 4: programs directly if you're showing certain means testing basically showing
Speaker 4: you certain below a certain income thresholder you're uninsuredag this
Speaker 4: or that, because they want to basically show that they're
Speaker 4: making their programs accessible. I mean, I can't speak for them.
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly if they're good motives or not.
Speaker 4: I'm sure they're all.
Speaker 5: Across the spectrum, right.
Speaker 4: But I was actually surprised and see that there is
Speaker 4: actually direct consumer assistance for those who prescribe these specific
Speaker 4: drugs in in a chronic disease space, and that goes
Speaker 4: for cancer drugs who can which can be very very expensive.
Speaker 4: That goes for diabetes related drugs and others as well,
Speaker 4: So encourage listeners to maybe look into that as well.
Speaker 4: And then I think there's also a notion sometimes that, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, what does it mean that I have to
Speaker 4: basically be on you know, on medicaid or or things
Speaker 4: like that. And I think there's no shame in that,
Speaker 4: because I think by taking advantage of these programs and
Speaker 4: taking care of your own health that over time can
Speaker 4: actually pay dividends in terms of you remaining healthy and
Speaker 4: you staying healthy. And then there are sometimes also like
Speaker 4: cash assistance programs or like we have. I live in
Speaker 4: a very very fortunate I live in a very relatively
Speaker 4: affluent community. But there are programs you know, through you know,
Speaker 4: the mayor's office and our community centers that it can
Speaker 4: actually where people can apply for assistance as well when
Speaker 4: they have issues with their medical bills. Again, not every
Speaker 4: community offers these types of programs, but I would just
Speaker 4: not be afraid to just ask within one social network.
Speaker 4: And if there's not specific enough, I apologize. Were constantly
Speaker 4: arguing with governments about how five percent of their GDP
Speaker 4: can be saved if they just offer better primary care.
Speaker 4: So sometimes sometimes we don't focus so much on the
Speaker 4: you know, on the individual. How the person who should
Speaker 4: be at the center of this, who is at the
Speaker 4: center of this, can make ends me, then their medical
Speaker 4: bills stay manageable.
Speaker 1: No, I mean that's great information. I have listened to
Speaker 1: these ads on TV for the drugs and they say
Speaker 1: if you can't afford your drug, reach out to that.
Speaker 1: But I never like thought about it. I never realized, like, oh,
Speaker 1: these drug companies are actually offering assistance. I just assumed
Speaker 1: they wouldn't. So I like never put two and two
Speaker 1: together that that's what they were doing because I just
Speaker 1: assumed they would not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and found not about it. We're actually we're working
Speaker 4: on an index called Health Impact Credit, where we're actually
Speaker 4: ranking the health impact the companies are having. And one
Speaker 4: of the things is that we're looking at do they
Speaker 4: give priority to the worst off and do they make
Speaker 4: their medicines affordable and accessible? And then you know, we
Speaker 4: comb through like a lot of data and we realize
Speaker 4: that they have these assistance programs. Again, I have never
Speaker 4: personally applied to one of them, but I was surprised
Speaker 4: to find that every single major drug company actually offers
Speaker 4: these programs. And I wonder if they're under subscribe because
Speaker 4: both of us here who are in this field are like, actually,
Speaker 4: this is news to us, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: A lot of a follow up but peripheral question, and
Speaker 3: this was not given to you in the outlines, so
Speaker 3: no worries. You're like, I'm not I don't know, that's not me.
Speaker 3: But you mentioned how the workplace you've created is creating
Speaker 3: flexibility in the work that you're doing. And for someone
Speaker 3: who maybe is able and desirous of holding a job
Speaker 3: while managing chronic illness, are there specific ways that people
Speaker 3: can look for jobs that are offering this level of flexibility.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not imagining that there's a database, Although
Speaker 3: that would be great, but are you aware of how
Speaker 3: people can find that type of work?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's an excellent question. I mean
Speaker 4: there are sort of like company rankings, right, like which
Speaker 4: companies have very good employee wellness programs. There are companies
Speaker 4: that offer programs through wellness linked insurance and that's one
Speaker 4: such program is called Vitality and it's started in South Africa.
Speaker 4: But what they do is basically they incentivize employees to
Speaker 4: engage in both fitness behavior and their health checkups to
Speaker 4: manage this a black local hypertension to wait and so on.
Speaker 4: And what we found is that even participation of members
Speaker 4: just by once a month can both save employees over
Speaker 4: one thousand dollars in their expenses over a year, not
Speaker 4: to get the rewards from the company, but it also
Speaker 4: saves the insurance company and the employer there for a
Speaker 4: lot in medical expenses. So it's literally like a win
Speaker 4: win win situation. So if I were in the job market,
Speaker 4: I'm like, I really want to make sure that you know,
Speaker 4: my employer.
Speaker 5: Is promotes health.
Speaker 4: I would really look at these types of programs and
Speaker 4: if they're being offered, I think that there is sometimes
Speaker 4: a risk great if you're going in and saying, well,
Speaker 4: you know, you don't want to come across as somebody
Speaker 4: who can't manage the regular nine to five. But I
Speaker 4: think if there is sort of a if there's an
Speaker 4: organization already works in a health space and you know,
Speaker 4: maybe maybe there is a conversation that can be had.
Speaker 4: And what was really eye opening to me was there
Speaker 4: was like there's a called Global Week of Action on
Speaker 4: Chronic Diseases and it's usually the second week of September
Speaker 4: each year, and we did like a series I think
Speaker 4: it was about two years ago on chronic illnesses and we're,
Speaker 4: you know, we were relatively young and healthy and we
Speaker 4: had I think fifteen employees at that time and we
Speaker 4: did that and what's very surprising to me is that
Speaker 4: almost everyone had a story of how they're either having
Speaker 4: their own history with chronic illnesses or an immediate family member.
Speaker 5: And I think it's.
Speaker 4: Almost we just almost have to assume that it's the norm.
Speaker 4: So if we can be part of that conversation saying like,
Speaker 4: look like I mean, it could almost be like a
Speaker 4: what chronic disease accommodations do you need? As opposed to
Speaker 4: like I think the norm should be like, you know,
Speaker 4: the same thing when you like with the pronouns, right,
Speaker 4: you just want to be like I was, like, you know,
Speaker 4: at the beginning, I was very ignorant and said, why
Speaker 4: do I need to share my pronouns? It's like, well,
Speaker 4: so that those who have specific preferences that may not
Speaker 4: be obvious don't feel the onus is on them, right,
Speaker 4: very shared pronouns. But then like the same thing with
Speaker 4: this is like maybe we just assume that everyone is
Speaker 4: having some sort of help, like what are your you know,
Speaker 4: like what is it?
Speaker 5: And how can we accommodate it?
Speaker 4: Right? What's the non negotiable that the employer needs and
Speaker 4: can just be met? You know, this morning, eight thirty
Speaker 4: am or on my way to work, the school nurse
Speaker 4: called and she ran through it.
Speaker 5: She didn't even ask.
Speaker 4: If I had time. She just assumed I had time
Speaker 4: because I'm the mom, right, So Jenny's laughing. I love it.
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, it's like you're the mom. You have
Speaker 4: to ask health questions when I call you because you know,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, never mind that I'm running into a
Speaker 4: meeting and I'm running a whole like I'm running a company.
Speaker 4: You're like, no, mom has to be responsible for the
Speaker 4: health questionnaire of the nurse right now, you know, which
Speaker 4: I was able to accommodate. But I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 4: I guess what I'm trying to say in a very
Speaker 4: long winded way, if those of us who employ can
Speaker 4: basically create a space where we acknowledge that it's more
Speaker 4: likely than not that everyone has either a chronic condition
Speaker 4: or someone with a chronic condition that they're partially responsible for,
Speaker 4: and you say, what's the plan, right, what's the care plan?
Speaker 4: And just accommodate for that. And I think that so again,
Speaker 4: the one employee that we had, I mean, she two
Speaker 4: three weeks and she was doing already fantastic work. She
Speaker 4: she know, she was in tears, and she's like, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have to you know, I think I have to
Speaker 4: resign because, like you know, I have this this chronic
Speaker 4: disease in my family and a person with a chronic disease,
Speaker 4: and I, you know, I need to manage the care
Speaker 4: and say, like, hold on a second, what is it
Speaker 4: that you're doing. Is the universe where we can actually
Speaker 4: come to an agreement, And we were able to come
Speaker 4: to an agreement, you know, on that basically saying okay,
Speaker 4: this is this net and you need to let us
Speaker 4: know what information is key and she does fantastic work,
Speaker 4: Like I'm so glad she was able to stay with us.
Speaker 4: And obviously that can't be the outcome in every situation,
Speaker 4: but I think that openness and I think that has
Speaker 4: to I mean, obviously advocacy of chronic disease groups and
Speaker 4: stuff like it is key, but I think it also
Speaker 4: makes a difference from the top right where those who
Speaker 4: can make those changes and accommodations can find empathy and say, well,
Speaker 4: you know, we're working with people. You know, we're not talking.
Speaker 4: You know, it's not an AI machine that's doing that work.
Speaker 4: It's actually not a person. And I might be in
Speaker 4: that person's shoes one day as well. I'm giving you
Speaker 4: a way too long reply here.
Speaker 3: So it's it's beautiful because and it's opening my eyes
Speaker 3: even more so to how the workplaces in the States
Speaker 3: set up in such a way as if our personal
Speaker 3: life doesn't exist in the Monday through Friday nine to five,
Speaker 3: and again, as you're identifying for pretty much all of us,
Speaker 3: it's just not true and kind of advocating for there
Speaker 3: to be space for all of us to be able
Speaker 3: to work parents, people with chronic illness, caretakers and having
Speaker 3: greater levels of flexibility, whether we're finding that, we're creating that,
Speaker 3: if we are in a position of the ability to
Speaker 3: do that, to create spaces that provide that degree of
Speaker 3: flexibility and honoring of personhood. I think it's such an
Speaker 3: important thing to highlight.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so these are things that we can do directly
Speaker 1: to advocate for ourselves and our friends and family. Let's
Speaker 1: look on like a macro level, like how can hand
Speaker 1: people with chronic illness and we the people who love them?
Speaker 1: How can we advocate for a better future? Like what's
Speaker 1: something I can do without a PhD or a lot
Speaker 1: of time to invest in in like dedicating my life
Speaker 1: to this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a great question, and I think
Speaker 4: just I think generally just being saying that health is
Speaker 4: a given, and health health needs to be given and
Speaker 4: a rate rather than a benefit. Without health, neither of
Speaker 4: us would be on this podcast right now, right, So
Speaker 4: we again we see it as something an afterthoughts sometimes
Speaker 4: as opposed to something that comes at the beginning, right,
Speaker 4: and in a sense, that from a system's perspective, making
Speaker 4: sure that if people get sick or have to take
Speaker 4: care of an immediate family member that is sick, that
Speaker 4: person can do so without losing their job. Right, So
Speaker 4: basically like labor laws, employment rights, those kind of what
Speaker 4: we describe benefits here, but really is sort of at
Speaker 4: a core of us taking care of each other but
Speaker 4: then being able to come back to our job. So
Speaker 4: I think being vocal about that is very important that
Speaker 4: if you can advocate for them at a policy level,
Speaker 4: also looking at like, you know, what are the main
Speaker 4: drivers of ill health and just you know, encouraging each
Speaker 4: other to be aware about that. That's everything from you know,
Speaker 4: if your mom and you have time and you advocate
Speaker 4: for you know, no vending machines in school, because thirty
Speaker 4: times forty years down down the road, you know, the
Speaker 4: people with more ven unhealthier vending machines are going to
Speaker 4: be the one suffering from obesity and diabetes and excessive
Speaker 4: costs of insulin. Like we know all that, right, So
Speaker 4: what are the small things in which we can actually
Speaker 4: ways that we can advocate for These small changes that
Speaker 4: then over time impact accumulate in their impact. So we
Speaker 4: then avert that spending in the long run. You know,
Speaker 4: my mind always jumps to, like what are the policy changes,
Speaker 4: like what saves us the most money? Right, and what
Speaker 4: saves us the most money is really like access to
Speaker 4: you know, as the five drivers, like making sure we
Speaker 4: can you know, our kids can exercise, making sure that
Speaker 4: we have places where people can exercise for free, that
Speaker 4: it's encouraged, smoking, vaping, making sure that that is really reduced,
Speaker 4: making sure that people can access their primary care provider
Speaker 4: at reasonable rates, and that our medical system is incentivized
Speaker 4: to not you know more often a patient with that
Speaker 4: chronic disease is see no more building can happen. But
Speaker 4: we actually don't reward physicians or healthcare workers that keep
Speaker 4: people healthy.
Speaker 5: Right, what about that?
Speaker 4: What if we promoted that and made them examples and
Speaker 4: heroes of our society or the heroes of the medical system.
Speaker 5: So ultraprocessed foods, really.
Speaker 4: Thinking about how can we make sure that we have
Speaker 4: dialogues and we hold corporations accountable, that we deserve better
Speaker 4: foods and the policies that allow us to eat less
Speaker 4: processed food, less salt, content, less high proples. Concert that's
Speaker 4: added above and beyond what we need on a daily
Speaker 4: basis if any. Also, like air quality, indoor and outer
Speaker 4: air qualities is highly important. And then just the basic
Speaker 4: conditions around mental health, like mental health.
Speaker 5: I'm shaking my head right now.
Speaker 4: I mean it's thirty to forty percent our healthcare costs
Speaker 4: are related, both direct and indirect, are related to mental
Speaker 4: health conditions. Right. We all have the between depression. I
Speaker 4: think of one quarter or more of women in the
Speaker 4: United States adult women are on some sort of form
Speaker 4: of antidepressant or anti anxiety medication. Right, And that's a
Speaker 4: huge cost, right, I mean that's a massive cost. I
Speaker 4: mean in terms of the financially time productivity everyone in
Speaker 4: their immediate environment, and like, how can we create these
Speaker 4: places of empathy, empathy, these healthier ways of the day
Speaker 4: to day. And again that's a frugal decision, right.
Speaker 5: Making sure that people can get enough sleep, that.
Speaker 6: They're not overly stressed, they're not equally anxious, actually will
Speaker 6: reduce premature mortality, will increase labor force participation, It will
Speaker 6: do so many good things for us also financially, that
Speaker 6: on all these fronts we can actually encourage the health
Speaker 6: but also the well being of for individual pocketbooks as.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, room on both the micro and macro level
Speaker 3: to advocate for changes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what I'm hearing is like investing in
Speaker 1: the cost to take care of yourself now won't solve
Speaker 1: the problem, but it'll save money on the larger problem.
Speaker 1: And taking the time to invest in when it's time
Speaker 1: to advocate by your vote, taking the time to make
Speaker 1: sure that you are learning about the labor laws and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and advocating for even if you don't
Speaker 1: have a chronic illness, for advocating for those around you
Speaker 1: who do, just assuming that everybody does have someone around
Speaker 1: them with it.
Speaker 4: And just as a footnote, like I mean, I know
Speaker 4: that one of my insurances, like I mean, they kind
Speaker 4: of reimburse you if you check in on healthy behaviors
Speaker 4: and things like that. And you know, sometimes that can
Speaker 4: be again that won't enrich one to like by thousands
Speaker 4: of dollars, but it can be at least ways that
Speaker 4: you feel like at least some not financially rewarded. So
Speaker 4: if anyone you know is part of these types of programs,
Speaker 4: sometimes you can actually you know, or if you're quitting,
Speaker 4: there's like smoking cessation programs and you pay you three
Speaker 4: hundred dollars at the end if you actually quit smoking,
Speaker 4: and but you pay with your diligence for debts for
Speaker 4: unlocking that that money. M hmm.
Speaker 3: I have one more of a curveball question for you, y'all.
Speaker 1: Jill's loving these today.
Speaker 3: I know I am, because I feel like you can
Speaker 3: handle them of person handing them doctor Andrew and Figel.
Speaker 3: So for somebody listening who maybe even going back to
Speaker 3: the beginning of this episode, might be really resonating with
Speaker 3: the because of this chronic illness that I'm managing, the
Speaker 3: advice that's given financially just can't totally work for me.
Speaker 3: I've got to do a lot of individualizing here. Or
Speaker 3: maybe the person who's feeling a little bit deflated in
Speaker 3: managing their personal finances while managing their money. Is there
Speaker 3: anything this isn't tips necessarily, just do you have any
Speaker 3: encouragement for them, For the person feeling deflated because of
Speaker 3: their chronic illness or as they care for someone with
Speaker 3: a chronic illness feeling as though the typical advice doesn't
Speaker 3: work for me, what might you say to them?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's such an important question. And again,
Speaker 4: you know, this is just an attempt and what's worked
Speaker 4: for me as well?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: I mean it can be so daunting both from like
Speaker 4: you know, if you stuck with you know, large bills,
Speaker 4: or like just a long journey ahead of you or
Speaker 4: like a forever journey, right, And I think that people
Speaker 4: are I think we need to learn to rejoice in
Speaker 4: small steps and also think about what am I so
Speaker 4: a the things that I do on my sort of
Speaker 4: personal health journeys is what are the small things that
Speaker 4: can change? And am I doing better today than I
Speaker 4: did yesterday?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Did I whatever? Did I go to sleep a bit earlier?
Speaker 4: Did I manage my stress a little bit more?
Speaker 5: That kind of stuff?
Speaker 4: Because that accumulates over time, So chronic conditions come into play.
Speaker 4: Obviously there's genetic predispositions, but very often they emerge from
Speaker 4: very long term standing patterns and so managing them will
Speaker 4: take time. Getting better will take time, and also getting
Speaker 4: better financially will take time as well. And again I'm
Speaker 4: not trying to minimize the very acute obviously physical pain,
Speaker 4: physical stress, and often a financial pain and stress. However,
Speaker 4: you know, I look at it also so it's basically
Speaker 4: am I better today?
Speaker 5: Am I making small things? Small? Changes that in the
Speaker 5: end will get me there.
Speaker 4: And this is also like when you, for example, on
Speaker 4: a fitness journey or a weight loss journey, for example,
Speaker 4: when will I be fit? Right? I don't know when
Speaker 4: I will be fit, but I know that if I
Speaker 4: keep sticking to this plan, there will be a day
Speaker 4: in the future where I'm.
Speaker 5: Like, I guess I did it.
Speaker 4: But I need to keep going on that journey, right,
Speaker 4: Because it's not like you're not going to be all
Speaker 4: of a sudden in better financial shape like overnight. You're
Speaker 4: not going to be like, all of a sudden completely
Speaker 4: cured overnight, unless some sort of miracle happens. But for
Speaker 4: most of us, it's a journey. And I think that
Speaker 4: kind of like looking at the what's better today than
Speaker 4: yesterday and realizing that I need to let go of
Speaker 4: that immediate need for feeling immediately better. But I just
Speaker 4: if I stick to the planet, it will be one
Speaker 4: day where I look back, I'm like, yes, I'm better
Speaker 4: than I was, Like I feel better financially, I feel
Speaker 4: better physically than I was three months ago or four
Speaker 4: months ago.
Speaker 3: You did it. Thanks for that message from gentleness that
Speaker 3: is definitely above and beyond what I was hoping for
Speaker 3: to go for speaking in the way that you did
Speaker 3: out of your expertise and years of experience and caring
Speaker 3: for others in this space, speaking of consistency, and just
Speaker 3: one day at a time, and we don't know where
Speaker 3: it's gonna lean, but we're gonna keep doing it.
Speaker 1: And I think you're fully capable of this one.
Speaker 3: The bill of the week.
Speaker 7: That's right, It's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 7: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 7: is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your
Speaker 7: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 7: that bill anymore. That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, this.
Speaker 1: Is the bill of the week. I have so many
Speaker 1: of those. You have way too many of those. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Yes, so, doctor Andrea. Every week we
Speaker 1: invite our guests or our listeners to share with us
Speaker 1: their bill for the week, and we are excited to
Speaker 1: hear yours.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I got into a little car accident last weekend.
Speaker 4: Somebody bumped me. Thankfully none of us were injured, so
Speaker 4: knock on wood, and thankfully I have good insurance. But
Speaker 4: basically I chose a rental car and even though it
Speaker 4: insurance covers it, I was like, you know, I don't like,
Speaker 4: I think there's value and not overspending, right, being frugal
Speaker 4: and mind full of resources periods. So I chose like
Speaker 4: a very cheap rental car, and then it came and
Speaker 4: brought me just massive as UV, and I thought usually
Speaker 4: they honored the original price, right, and so I was
Speaker 4: really upset that they then like basically snug me or
Speaker 4: my actually my insurance company with a bigger price tag.
Speaker 4: And I was like, that's all not cool, Like even
Speaker 4: if I'm not paying for it, I don't think that,
Speaker 4: you know, they're basically abusing the system, and I just
Speaker 4: hate that. I hate the notion of, well, somebody else
Speaker 4: is paying for it, I can just stick them with
Speaker 4: the bill, because I think it comes back to you
Speaker 4: and I think it's a part of honesty and integrity.
Speaker 4: So I took it upon myself to be on hold
Speaker 4: for or three hours of this car company and they
Speaker 4: never picked up, and then they're like and then I
Speaker 4: was like going on literally like reddits and like online
Speaker 4: searches because I'm like, I am not having them build
Speaker 4: whoever they're billing more than they should, and I found
Speaker 4: this like corporate email address, and I basically forwarded a
Speaker 4: complaint and ce seed my insurance and I said, this
Speaker 4: is the contract that's enough for but this is the
Speaker 4: bill you stuck with me, with me with and that's
Speaker 4: not okay. And then they escalated it and they're fixing
Speaker 4: the issue.
Speaker 5: So even though I'm a.
Speaker 4: Personal benefiting from it, I feel I did the right thing.
Speaker 4: But I just hate it when, like you know, like
Speaker 4: I just hate it when there's this over billing issue
Speaker 4: and things like that and I take, you know, I
Speaker 4: on my company. I like, even though I don't have to,
Speaker 4: I check out bank account every single day, and I
Speaker 4: just also like, sorry, one more bill, like two years
Speaker 4: ago around Thanksgiving somebody. It's always around Thanksgiving because that's
Speaker 4: when the tax to do for nonprofits and then basically
Speaker 4: we always have to say how much is in a
Speaker 4: bank account. So basically, like I hope no scammeras listening
Speaker 4: to this, but basically, like nonprofits have to basically report
Speaker 4: how much money is in their bank each year, which
Speaker 4: companies for profits don't have to do that. And so
Speaker 4: around the busy shopping time is when people try to
Speaker 4: take advantage of organizations like hours that tries to do
Speaker 4: good work, and it's very hard to raise money for nonprofits,
Speaker 4: and so they started racking up a credit card and
Speaker 4: I was able to reverse that. And then two last
Speaker 4: year they tried to steal sixty thousand dollars from our
Speaker 4: bank account by breaking into our expensify and changing your
Speaker 4: spending limit on our cards, and again I was thankfully
Speaker 4: able to stop that and reverse that. But you know,
Speaker 4: sixty thousand dollars for a nonprofit that tries to help
Speaker 4: people with chronic conditions. I mean, how crazy and annoying
Speaker 4: do you have to be to try and stiff us
Speaker 4: with that?
Speaker 1: You know, so annoying is not the word I would.
Speaker 8: It's been crazy any right, Yeah, expensive, I said, this
Speaker 8: is a little spending car that was created by these
Speaker 8: cameras and it says like easy money.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I go.
Speaker 4: I go full in, Like if I feel that there's
Speaker 4: an unchest bill, there's an overbuilding, there's something, I go
Speaker 4: and I'm like, not with me.
Speaker 5: I'm very I'm like, no, not with me.
Speaker 4: So I love this question.
Speaker 3: By a way, Wow, you've got advocacy in your veins.
Speaker 3: I'm loving everything that you're saying. And what a beautiful
Speaker 3: marker of integrity like you're saying. Because the more and
Speaker 3: more we let, even at these smaller levels the system
Speaker 3: be taken advantage of, we eventually are the ones taken
Speaker 3: advantage of. I think we see it so much in
Speaker 3: the medical world, and you're identifying it then just in
Speaker 3: this other insurance space. So man, well, thank you. I
Speaker 3: resume given your time to do all that.
Speaker 1: Yes, I love it.
Speaker 3: Wow. If you all listening, have a bill about advocacy
Speaker 3: for justice, if it doesn't even benefit you, but it
Speaker 3: benefits the nation and the world, we'd love to hear it.
Speaker 3: Visit Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash Bill. Or if your
Speaker 3: name is Bill and we don't care what you've done,
Speaker 3: call us too because we love that too. Frugal Friends
Speaker 3: podcast dot com slash Bill. And now it's time for
Speaker 3: the und all right, now we have more animated as
Speaker 3: the episode coast.
Speaker 1: I know we do our own stunts. So this week's
Speaker 1: question in the Vulnerability round is how do you personally
Speaker 1: budget and or save for like regular non emergency medical
Speaker 1: expenses that regular self care that's going to cost us
Speaker 1: a little bit in the short term, but save us
Speaker 1: in the long run. So Andrea, you can.
Speaker 5: Go first shout out to goodl Excel.
Speaker 4: I just have like an Excel sheet and try to
Speaker 4: have like slacken in.
Speaker 5: What I'm doing. And I do overspend in.
Speaker 6: Healthy foods and personal trainers.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's not overspending. If that's what you value, I
Speaker 1: value it a lot.
Speaker 4: I also recently got divorced, and some of my friends
Speaker 4: call me like, you, no, you don't have a revenge dress,
Speaker 4: you have a revenge body.
Speaker 5: I gladly take that compliment.
Speaker 3: Seems way more sustainable and there's a lot more longevity
Speaker 3: and that for sure.
Speaker 1: I love a revenge I know, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 4: I tried to budget, and I was always very good
Speaker 4: with numbers and even budgeted for my parents when I
Speaker 4: was young. I grew up very poor, and I actually
Speaker 4: sometimes my grocery shopping for them because my mom would
Speaker 4: always spend something extra, and I was like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: you got to stick to the budget. So I had
Speaker 4: to basically just intrinsically know like what's over and underspending,
Speaker 4: and then you know, I try to like get my
Speaker 4: stuff together of like making sure I have a couple
Speaker 4: of months' worth of savings and stuff like that. So
Speaker 4: but again, I grew up very poor, but I'm now
Speaker 4: in a very privileged position, and I thankfully I'm able
Speaker 4: to put some money aside and to have a little
Speaker 4: bit of slack. But yeah, I've been on thirty five
Speaker 4: dollars a week food budgets and literally like no savings
Speaker 4: when I was in my university program and I had
Speaker 4: these issues with my teeth and all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: seven thousand dollars in expenses and I was working sixty
Speaker 4: five hours a week while I was doing my master's program.
Speaker 4: So I know how it feels, and I'm just like,
Speaker 4: when you're stuck in this position, I just honestly did
Speaker 4: what I could and prayed and bleaned on some friends.
Speaker 5: So you know.
Speaker 3: Yes, sometimes that's how we get unexpected things covered.
Speaker 1: There's those seasons exist in illness and regular illness.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we don't want go fund me to be
Speaker 3: the plan, but sometimes it's what ends up being what's needed.
Speaker 3: And so I'm glad that it does exactly because we don't.
Speaker 3: We don't always have backup for whatever life throws at us.
Speaker 3: So good to have friends and community.
Speaker 1: Jill, is that your plan? Is that your answer? That's
Speaker 1: how you say for regular There was.
Speaker 4: A really fun there was a really fun study that
Speaker 4: looked at like what makes people live long? And it's
Speaker 4: basically the amount of friends you have, the amount of
Speaker 4: exercise you do, the amount of beans and lentils you eat.
Speaker 4: So exercise, sleep friends, and beans.
Speaker 1: Are so I sleep friends, and I'm gonna live forever.
Speaker 1: If I am gonna live forever, because I would love interest,
Speaker 1: my children are gonna live even longer because basically that's
Speaker 1: all Kai eats it.
Speaker 3: And the young a bean salad. Lately, I didn't even
Speaker 3: know I was investing in longevity.
Speaker 1: We're gonna live forever together, Jill, together the old day. Okay,
Speaker 1: what is your actual answer?
Speaker 3: Oh? No, one's gonna like this. Well, who knows. I
Speaker 3: can't say that you're saying non emergency. I do have
Speaker 3: a sinking fund for medical expenses, and it's the amount
Speaker 3: of my deductible, which is quite high. So if I
Speaker 3: can't pay routine expenses out of just like my miscellaneous money,
Speaker 3: then I'll dip into that sinking fund. But as far
Speaker 3: as preventative care goes, I am not a person living
Speaker 3: with chronic illness, and so I'm as focused as much
Speaker 3: as possible on just how can I maintain health in
Speaker 3: my day to day and how can I do it
Speaker 3: for free? So I'm really not spending on medical things.
Speaker 3: I do free YouTube exercise. I make a veggie smoothie
Speaker 3: every morning with my VitaminX. I invested in that three
Speaker 3: years ago on a Black Friday. I recommend it.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows she loves her vitamins.
Speaker 3: I drink a lot of water. I love sleep, That's
Speaker 3: what I do. What about you, Jen?
Speaker 1: So I am not getting a ton of sleep right
Speaker 1: now still, But as you know, Atlas is like what
Speaker 1: seven almost eight months old at this point, so it's
Speaker 1: getting better for sure. And I'm actually like in this
Speaker 1: right now. I didn't plan this around this episode, but
Speaker 1: I had a back injury two weeks ago, so I
Speaker 1: don't regularly have medical expenses, but I have been spending
Speaker 1: more than usual right now just because of this lower
Speaker 1: back illness injury. And I have a half marathon in
Speaker 1: a week and a half, so like there's like a
Speaker 1: time crunch to getting it. So I am spending a
Speaker 1: lot of money on chiropractic care and acupuncture to try
Speaker 1: and heal it quickly. And two things I will recommend
Speaker 1: on those like community acupuncture just googling community acupuncture in
Speaker 1: your city is low cost, sliding scale acupuncture. And then
Speaker 1: the joint chiropractors, like I had never been, but it's
Speaker 1: like essentially a franchise that just makes chiropractic care affordable
Speaker 1: and accessible, and I was like, Yay, they're doing great work.
Speaker 1: So I think finding those community they're not nonprofits, they
Speaker 1: are for profit companies, but with a goal to make
Speaker 1: quality for profit care accessible and they just change up
Speaker 1: the way they do it. It's in a it's not
Speaker 1: private room, it's not exclusive, it's you know, one big room.
Speaker 1: So looking for things like that when I do need care,
Speaker 1: but then it really just comes out of our miscellaneous
Speaker 1: fund because I don't use it very often. I work
Speaker 1: out very frequently. So I've been struggling with postpartum depression
Speaker 1: in this postpartum experience. I didn't with my last one,
Speaker 1: and so I have personally decided to try and just
Speaker 1: use exercising to get through it, and that has really
Speaker 1: worked well. And the biggest cost to that has been
Speaker 1: my personal guilt for choosing to exercise rather than like
Speaker 1: if I should be working, or feeling like I should
Speaker 1: be working, or maybe feeling guilty for having my kid
Speaker 1: in daycare, but knowing that this is that is the
Speaker 1: highest cost I pay for this like type of self care.
Speaker 1: So that is my medical expense is in a nutshell
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 4: Thanks for sharing very quick foot note to this, just
Speaker 4: because you spark my brain. I don't so back when
Speaker 4: I was in Canada, and I don't know if they
Speaker 4: have this here so for me, like chiropractor, like I
Speaker 4: used to be a dancer, and again like a student,
Speaker 4: so they used to have these colleges of massage therapy
Speaker 4: and you could basically get students to give you massages.
Speaker 4: And I also hacked the system because they had eight semesters,
Speaker 4: so I started to know that I needed to ask
Speaker 4: for level seven level eight students.
Speaker 5: To get scheduled from a massages.
Speaker 4: So pretty much I got a almost fully baked massage
Speaker 4: therapist as opposed to like a novice, and you know,
Speaker 4: you got like massages for twenty or twenty five dollars.
Speaker 4: That's also how I got my haircuts and like all
Speaker 4: this kind of stuff again not medical, but whatever, So
Speaker 4: I don't know if that exists in the States, but
Speaker 4: that it might as well, you know, so things like
Speaker 4: that just about exercise, you know, like exercise releases actually
Speaker 4: like happiness hormones, like from your muscles when you compress
Speaker 4: your muscles, and I find it's so fascinating, but it's
Speaker 4: such aally therapy. And then the other thing I did
Speaker 4: because again like it's so like mental healthcare, even with
Speaker 4: the apps and whatnot.
Speaker 5: Can't be so expensive.
Speaker 4: And like that's not just radios, it's internationally. So just
Speaker 4: one program I loved and it's called fifteen Minutes for
Speaker 4: Me dot Com and they just I think it's like
Speaker 4: fifty bucks per month or something like that, but it
Speaker 4: has like baby check ins and things like that. And
Speaker 4: when I was traveling a lot and really like you know,
Speaker 4: distressed and sleep deprived, I was like, I just need something,
Speaker 4: but I couldn't see my therapist, and I couldn't afford
Speaker 4: to see my therapist, you know. I was like totally
Speaker 4: like this is again it's not free, but it's comparatively
Speaker 4: affordable and also really like you know, science based and helpful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we actually see these additional tips at the end.
Speaker 1: I know, I love and we actually did an episode
Speaker 1: about getting those like services from different schools episode three
Speaker 1: thirty six. I just looked it up, but yes, so
Speaker 1: I haven't. There's a massage school actually very close to
Speaker 1: where we live that I have gotten massage at before,
Speaker 1: but I haven't done one lately. Yeah, thank you for
Speaker 1: those additional tips.
Speaker 3: Speaking of more, doctor Andrea, where can people get more
Speaker 3: from you?
Speaker 4: I'm quite active on LinkedIn. So this my name, Andrea Feigel.
Speaker 4: I'm LinkedIn and you'll find me obviously hopefully you know
Speaker 4: people who listen to this podcast. And uh yeah, so
Speaker 4: our website is health Finance Institute dot org, or you
Speaker 4: can email me. It's Andrea at Health Finance Institute dot org.
Speaker 1: Awesome, thank you so much for coming on, Andrea. Thank
Speaker 1: you for everything you've spoken. It's been enlightening and we've
Speaker 1: both just are next are tired from nodding so much,
Speaker 1: so thank you so much.
Speaker 4: No, it's been an absolute pleasure, and thank you so
Speaker 4: much for what you do. It's absolutely needed. And you
Speaker 4: guys are fantastic, You ladies are fantastic. So what a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks Andrea.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you leave an interview saying like that was a
Speaker 1: good one, and I left thinking that's a good one.
Speaker 1: I think people are going to get something out of it,
Speaker 1: because I did at least, so if I can, you can.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. There was a few moments where
Speaker 3: I felt on the verge of tears, and that may
Speaker 3: just be where I am today and whatever I'm experiencing
Speaker 3: inside myself today Tuesday. I think the extra focus and
Speaker 3: acknowledgment of what those managing chronic illnesses are facing day
Speaker 3: in and day out can, just as I look at it,
Speaker 3: can feel so weighty, and so I think, even to
Speaker 3: hear doctor Figel's messaging of one day at a time,
Speaker 3: be gentle with yourself. Yeah, there was just a lot
Speaker 3: in there that felt so intensive, but in a good way.
Speaker 3: And I'm so glad that we've got the space to
Speaker 3: look at what are the circumstances that many of our
Speaker 3: listeners are experiencing and our friends and family. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know that I lived with my grandmother who has
Speaker 3: Alzheimer's for a year to take care of her and
Speaker 3: met those indirect costs of it, interrupting some work, and yeah,
Speaker 3: just the toll that it takes on life. And that
Speaker 3: was just a year. So Andrea, I appreciate this podcast
Speaker 3: and I don't know. I love our community and the
Speaker 3: people who even message us asking hey, what about me?
Speaker 3: Can you help the community to see people like me
Speaker 3: who's managing mental health concerns, chronic physical ailments. Can we
Speaker 3: make sure that all of us are seen and acknowledged.
Speaker 3: So lots of feels going on for me over here,
Speaker 3: and grateful for experts like doctor Andrea, and grateful for
Speaker 3: all of you who are listening. Many of you know
Speaker 3: that we also have a newsletter. It's called the Friend Letter,
Speaker 3: and we send it out three times a week where
Speaker 3: we talk about freebies and savings tips and life hacks
Speaker 3: and actually so many were mentioned by doctor Andrea this week.
Speaker 3: I think this week we're talking about beauty schools and
Speaker 3: how to save in that regard, and just lots of
Speaker 3: different savings tips and hacks that are in this newsletter.
Speaker 3: So if you want those reminders, you want to know
Speaker 3: what's available, you want something in your inbox weekly that's
Speaker 3: helping you to save and get free things, please get that.
Speaker 3: We want to also shout out a friend for replying
Speaker 3: to one of our emails who said I love this
Speaker 3: and how finances relate to our hierarchy of needs filing
Speaker 3: this away to glance back at forever. Thank you not
Speaker 3: just in the future, but a glance back for forever
Speaker 3: from Rachel. And that's been a special unexpected treat too,
Speaker 3: is seeing the response emails, because you can you can
Speaker 3: get the newsletter, the friend letter and then respond to
Speaker 3: us and we see it and so that's also amazing.
Speaker 1: It comes straight to our inbox. There's no like public
Speaker 1: forum for these emails, but we love to read them
Speaker 1: and it is special for us. So thank you for
Speaker 1: your email, Rachel.
Speaker 3: So if you want these freebees, savings tips, values based
Speaker 3: spending hacks to your inbox every week so that you
Speaker 3: can even earmark them for forever, Frugal friendspodcast dot com
Speaker 3: slash friend letter, or you could just go to our
Speaker 3: website Frugal Friendspodcasts dot com. You can also follow us
Speaker 3: on Instagram because we love it when you can engage
Speaker 3: with us there and the link is in our bio,
Speaker 3: so tons of ways to get at us.
Speaker 1: See you next time. Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 1: So I was at FINCN this past week. For those
Speaker 1: of you who don't know, finn Con is a financial
Speaker 1: media convention and expo. It is where all of your
Speaker 1: favorite money podcasters, bloggers, YouTubers, and a lot of influencers
Speaker 1: converge on each other for a week, converge on a
Speaker 1: city for a week. Sorry, that was a bad way
Speaker 1: to say that. And this year was New Orleans, and
Speaker 1: I'd never been to New Orleans. And this might be
Speaker 1: a little TMI, but I had a checklist of things
Speaker 1: that I wanted to eat in New Orleans and I
Speaker 1: made the whole checklist. I did all of them, and
Speaker 1: by the end of the week, I had consumed so
Speaker 1: much sodium that my feet swelled like I was nine
Speaker 1: months pregnant, so painful. I don't eat a lot of sodium,
Speaker 1: like even in the takeout. I guess, like I'm I
Speaker 1: don't know if my body just wasn't accustomed to it
Speaker 1: or what. But I was told after I told somebody
Speaker 1: like how much, not how much I'd eaten, but like
Speaker 1: what I'd eaten, They're like, oh, yes, all of those
Speaker 1: things have a lot of salt.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, can you give us like
Speaker 3: a quick snapshot of what what?
Speaker 1: Yes? I started with Bignet's, but I don't think those
Speaker 1: were the salty, you know, the things with the salt.
Speaker 1: I had jambalaya, gumbo, shrimp, po boys, many sasaaks, which
Speaker 1: is a local delicacy drink. Also don't think those were
Speaker 1: the salt givers. But I had the other things multiple times,
Speaker 1: and while all delicious, probably consumerated to the demid eyes
Speaker 1: of my ankles.
Speaker 3: Too much of a good thing.
Speaker 1: My ankles left me and I just had a leg,
Speaker 1: just had leg all the way down.
Speaker 3: So well, what did you learn, jen H?
Speaker 1: Everything in moderation.
Speaker 3: Yes, fin CON's dangerous. Thin Con is dangerous.
Speaker 1: That's what I learned. I'll be back next year in
Speaker 3: Atlanta with moderation in tow maybe