WEBVTT - REPLAY: The Pride and The Power

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, Thread listeners. In the wake of the killing of

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<v Speaker 1>George Floyd, America finds itself engulfed in a popular uprising

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<v Speaker 1>like few it is seen in its history. In light

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<v Speaker 1>of the unfolding situation and unrest across America and the

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<v Speaker 1>debate about the use of non violent versus violent forms

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<v Speaker 1>of protest, we thought it would be a good time

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<v Speaker 1>to rerun a prior season of The Thread that touched

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<v Speaker 1>on this very issue and how it has played out

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<v Speaker 1>previously in history. In Season three of The Thread, we

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<v Speaker 1>trace the origins of a revolutionary and even dangerous idea,

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<v Speaker 1>non violent resistance. We witnessed how the idea journey through

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<v Speaker 1>the minds of some remarkable individuals and across the globe

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<v Speaker 1>for nearly two centuries to become a powerful agent for

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<v Speaker 1>social change. In episode one, which we are republishing today,

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<v Speaker 1>we began that story in Birmingham, Alabama, with the unexpected

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<v Speaker 1>success of America's most famous proponent of non violent protest,

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Martin Luther King. Junior King and his fellow civil

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<v Speaker 1>rights activist face any of the same issues and dilemmas

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<v Speaker 1>we are seeing play out on the streets of America today.

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<v Speaker 1>The fight to reform unjust laws or conduct is never

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<v Speaker 1>easy or simple, but it can lead to momentous change.

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<v Speaker 1>King compared the civil disobedience he was orchestrating to the

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<v Speaker 1>Boston tea Party. He argued, quote, we are in good

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<v Speaker 1>company when we break unjust laws, and I think those

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<v Speaker 1>who are willing to do it and accept the penalty

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<v Speaker 1>are those who are part of the saving of the nation.

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<v Speaker 1>It's may the eyes of the world are on Birmingham, Alabama.

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<v Speaker 1>Hundreds of Birmingham's black residents, including scores of teenagers, pour

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<v Speaker 1>into the streets in their church clothes on a warm

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<v Speaker 1>Sunday afternoon. Birmingham's police chief, Eugene Bull Connor, watches the

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<v Speaker 1>scene unfold. Connor is a burly white man in his

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<v Speaker 1>mid sixties, slipped back, gray hair, horn rimmed glasses. He

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<v Speaker 1>looks a lot like the warden from the Shawshank Redemption.

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<v Speaker 1>In recent days, the frustrated Connor has turned to police

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<v Speaker 1>dogs and fire hoses to put down the stream of protesters,

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<v Speaker 1>and he has drawn national attention to himself and his

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<v Speaker 1>city in the process. The marchers are given one more

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<v Speaker 1>chance to turn around and disperse, they refused. The angry

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<v Speaker 1>Connor whirrels and shouts to his men, damn it, turn

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<v Speaker 1>on the hoses. Many protesters take to their knees, prepared

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<v Speaker 1>to stand their ground peacefully against the coming onslaught. But

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<v Speaker 1>what happened next is not what you think or what

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<v Speaker 1>you may have seen in the black and white photos

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<v Speaker 1>of protesters, dogs and fire hoses. What happened next surprised

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<v Speaker 1>even the man behind the protests in Birmingham, Martin Luther

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<v Speaker 1>King Jr. What happened next, or the dogs that didn't bark,

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<v Speaker 1>the fire hoses that didn't spread. What happened next was

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<v Speaker 1>what doctor King called the pride and the power of

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<v Speaker 1>non violence. We are so we have to five. We

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<v Speaker 1>got to all the gods that we got all up.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sean Braswell, and this is the thread. Each season,

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<v Speaker 1>we unravel the stories behind some of the most important

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<v Speaker 1>lives and events in history to discover essentially how one

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<v Speaker 1>thing leads to another. To do so, we travel back

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<v Speaker 1>through history, one story at a time to explore the

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<v Speaker 1>origins of an important event, an iconic figure, or a

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<v Speaker 1>big idea. This year marks the fiftieth anniversary of the

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<v Speaker 1>death of the iconic civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther

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<v Speaker 1>King Jr. And so in season three of The Thread,

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<v Speaker 1>we explore the origin of a revolutionary idea, one very

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<v Speaker 1>near and dear to the heart of doctor King, the

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<v Speaker 1>principle of non violent resistance, the counterintuitive notion that the

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<v Speaker 1>best way to reform your enemies is to love them,

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<v Speaker 1>the best way to counter their blows is to absorb them.

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<v Speaker 1>King established the use of mass nonviolent protest on American soil,

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<v Speaker 1>but it did not begin with him. We'll take you

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<v Speaker 1>on a journey through the minds of some remarkable individuals

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<v Speaker 1>and across the globe. This season on The Thread, we

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<v Speaker 1>find out how a single powerful idea can spread and

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<v Speaker 1>remake the world. When Martin Luther King Jr. Was fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>years old, he had a formative experience aboard a segregated bus.

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<v Speaker 1>King and his high school teacher were on their way

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<v Speaker 1>back to Atlanta from an oratory contest in southern Georgia.

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<v Speaker 1>They were asked to give up their seats when two

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<v Speaker 1>white passengers boarded the bus. The teenage King stood and

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<v Speaker 1>stewed for hours at the back of the bus. He

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<v Speaker 1>later recalled quote, it was the angriest I have ever

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<v Speaker 1>been in my life. Twelve years later, a forty two

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<v Speaker 1>year old seamstress found herself in a similar situation, but

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<v Speaker 1>his history has well told. Rosa Parks refused to give

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<v Speaker 1>up her seat and his fate would have it. The

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<v Speaker 1>now twenty six year old doctor King had just accepted

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<v Speaker 1>a job as a minister in the city where Parks

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<v Speaker 1>took her famous ride, Montgomery, Alabama. Mrs Rosa Parks was

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<v Speaker 1>arrested and taken down to jail, taken from the bus

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<v Speaker 1>just because she refused to give up a seat. That

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<v Speaker 1>is the young King addressing reporters about the events unfolding

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<v Speaker 1>in Montgomery. A boycott of the city's buses was proposed

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<v Speaker 1>four days after Parks was arrested. This is David Garrow King,

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<v Speaker 1>biographer and the Pulitzer Prize winning author of Bearing the Cross.

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<v Speaker 1>That's when doctor King debuted as the lead spokesperson for

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<v Speaker 1>this new citywide bus boycott effort. It has been moved

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<v Speaker 1>that a second that that the resolution that red would

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<v Speaker 1>be received down a dollar. Are you ready about the

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<v Speaker 1>question all in paple that had been known by standing

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<v Speaker 1>on your feet. King and his wife Coretta woke up

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<v Speaker 1>early on the first day of the boycott. They watched

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<v Speaker 1>the bus stop near their house from the front window

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<v Speaker 1>and looked on in amazement as bus after bus passed by.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of the busses contained that a single black passenger.

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<v Speaker 1>Red was the day, and we started a bus protest

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<v Speaker 1>which literally electrified the nation. And that was a day

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<v Speaker 1>when we decided that we were not going to take

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<v Speaker 1>segregated buses any longer. King saw a powerful social movement

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<v Speaker 1>come together before his eyes. For several weeks, now were

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<v Speaker 1>the Nigro citizens of Montgomery have been involved in a

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<v Speaker 1>non violent protest against the injustices which we have experienced

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<v Speaker 1>on the buses a number of years. Soon the boycott

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<v Speaker 1>went from weeks to months, and Montgomery's white community started

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<v Speaker 1>to press back. This is historian John Demilio, So imagine

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<v Speaker 1>a protest like this developing in Alabama in n segregation

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<v Speaker 1>is the rule. Um. White supremacists have no reluctance to

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<v Speaker 1>use violence to keep African Americans in line. Uh. They

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<v Speaker 1>lynch people, they shoot people, They're willing to burn houses.

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<v Speaker 1>They will do anything that they have to do. King

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<v Speaker 1>quickly became a primary target for that violence. David Garrow again,

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<v Speaker 1>Dr King gradually becomes a more and more visible figure

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<v Speaker 1>in local Montgomery news coverage not long thereafter. Uh, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a small bomb that's detonated on the porch of his

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<v Speaker 1>home when he's out at a rally. It breaks some windows. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>No one, fortunately is injured. An angry crowd had gathered

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<v Speaker 1>outside Dr King's home by the time he arrived back.

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<v Speaker 1>They refused to obey police instructions to disperse. King stepped

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<v Speaker 1>onto the front porch. He asked them not to retaliate, then,

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<v Speaker 1>referring to the people who had nearly killed his wife

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<v Speaker 1>and child an hour before, King told the crowd quote,

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to love our enemies, be good to them,

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<v Speaker 1>love them, and let them know you love them. And

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<v Speaker 1>you can see in his remarks that evening how his

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<v Speaker 1>fundamental Christian belief in a in an ethic and dawn

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<v Speaker 1>of love, even love for one's enemies, uh, is at

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<v Speaker 1>the very core of his being. Finally, Montgomery City leaders

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<v Speaker 1>agreed to the protesters demands after a community of more

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<v Speaker 1>than fifty thousand people had protested for three hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>eighty two days. Montgomery's buses would never be segregated again,

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<v Speaker 1>and King and his allies had launched a powerful new

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<v Speaker 1>form of protests in America. Non violent resistance give passive

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<v Speaker 1>resistance means just passively accepting violence and injustice. If it

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<v Speaker 1>means cowardice and stagnant passivity, then that is a difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Because non violent resistance that there is resists, it is

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<v Speaker 1>dynamically active. Governments think it's a dangerous idea. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>cherished notion of government that they have an exclusive right

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<v Speaker 1>to violence. This is Mark Kurlansky, author of non Violence,

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<v Speaker 1>The History of a Dangerous idea. If your opponents are violent, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and you're violent, you're playing to their strong suit. Whereas

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<v Speaker 1>if you're non violent, you're they don't really know what

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<v Speaker 1>to do. Uh. And that's what happened with the civil

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<v Speaker 1>rights movement. King's non violent approach transformed that movement. Before

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<v Speaker 1>the Montgomery bus boycott, the U s Civil rights movement

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<v Speaker 1>was based in the North, with organizations like the n

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<v Speaker 1>Double A c P, which won the landmark school desegregation

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<v Speaker 1>decision Brown Versus Board of Education a year after the boycott.

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<v Speaker 1>King and several other Southern Black ministers and activists formed

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<v Speaker 1>the Southern Christian Leadership Conference or SCLC in nineteen fifty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's when the center of the civil rights movement

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<v Speaker 1>began to shift to the South, and so the black

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<v Speaker 1>religious leaders like King, who waged a new war of

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<v Speaker 1>non violence David Garrow. The lesson of Montgomery was that

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<v Speaker 1>local black communities, just ordinary residents citizens could take meaningful

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<v Speaker 1>action on their own against racial segregation without waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>leadership from New York City. Dr King was a unique

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<v Speaker 1>personality because he was a conflict resolver. He acted as

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<v Speaker 1>a lubricant and a persuader to get people to compromise

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<v Speaker 1>and do things in keeping with his tradition of the

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<v Speaker 1>non violent techniques. This is Timothy Jenkins, a civil rights

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<v Speaker 1>leader who helped organize students sit ins and other nonviolent

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<v Speaker 1>protests during the nineteen sixties, and he was an advocate

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<v Speaker 1>of techniques of persuasion that did not revolve around force

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<v Speaker 1>or arms or threats, and that led to I think

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<v Speaker 1>a unique character to it this movement as opposed to

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<v Speaker 1>normal political movements, because it was not a test of

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<v Speaker 1>power and the test of authority. It was a test

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<v Speaker 1>of moral suasion. But it was a test that did

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<v Speaker 1>not always work. John Demilio again, Dr King had been

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<v Speaker 1>and supporting protests in Albany Georgia in nineteen sixty two

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<v Speaker 1>for much of the year, and it was a very

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<v Speaker 1>frustrating experience. Um in part because the sheriff in Albany, Georgia,

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<v Speaker 1>had the foresight not to respond to these protests with violence,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the protests didn't capture headlines. The Southern non

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<v Speaker 1>violence campaign stalled by the end of nineteen sixty two.

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<v Speaker 1>In many ways, non violent protests depends upon violence from

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<v Speaker 1>those in authority to succeed, and King knew that the

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<v Speaker 1>movement needed a confrontation to regain the nation's attention. Mark Kurlansky.

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<v Speaker 1>He realized that, you know, resisting non violently would only

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<v Speaker 1>work if people saw you doing it, which is how

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<v Speaker 1>King and the SCLC came to be in Birmingham, Alabama,

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<v Speaker 1>the most segregated city in America in early nineteen sixty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Birmingham has one of the most brutal white sheriffs in

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<v Speaker 1>the South, John Demilio. Again he went by the name

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<v Speaker 1>of Bull Connor, which tells you something about how people

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<v Speaker 1>perceived him. He was as determined and fierce as a bull. Here,

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<v Speaker 1>the animated Connor in a white shirt and black tie

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<v Speaker 1>defends his actions in Birmingham you can never with the

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<v Speaker 1>boy if you don't keep you in him separated. I

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<v Speaker 1>found that out blaming him. You've got to keep the

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<v Speaker 1>white and the black separ King and local black leaders

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<v Speaker 1>were banking on the fact that Connor would take any

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<v Speaker 1>means necessary to ensure that Birmingham's races from and separate.

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<v Speaker 1>The demonstrations began during Easter Week nineteen sixty three. About

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<v Speaker 1>fifty supporters turned out for the first march on Good Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>After four and a half blocks, the marchers, including King,

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<v Speaker 1>were met by Connor's officers, placed under arrest, and taken

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<v Speaker 1>to the city jail. For the next few weeks, the

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrations did not have their intended effect David Garrow. Initially

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<v Speaker 1>in Birmingham, King and SCLC had a good degree of

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<v Speaker 1>trouble in recruiting black community members to participate in protests.

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<v Speaker 1>Connor and the Birmingham police remained restrained, avoiding the media

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<v Speaker 1>attention that King counted on, So a new tactic was adopted.

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<v Speaker 1>Leaflets are circulated in Birmingham's black high schools urging students

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<v Speaker 1>to join the next demonstration in Birmingham. They decide to

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<v Speaker 1>mobilize young people, not young adults, not college students, but

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<v Speaker 1>high school students and younger and that gets a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of publicity, and at a certain point, Bull Connor and

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<v Speaker 1>the police just lose it and they start beating people

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<v Speaker 1>and arresting them on mass police arrested more than five

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<v Speaker 1>students in the first two days. The jails were full,

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<v Speaker 1>and Connor's patience was running thin. He unleashed the police

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<v Speaker 1>dogs and ordered the fire hoses be turned on demonstrators.

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<v Speaker 1>Water from the high powered hoses tore the clothes off

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<v Speaker 1>some protesters backs. Photographers and television cameras captured the brutal attack.

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<v Speaker 1>Images of police officers beating protesters, a teenagers getting slammed

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<v Speaker 1>against walls by water, and if dogs snarling at young

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<v Speaker 1>girls made headlines across the country. Many whites in the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the country, we're going about their lives not

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<v Speaker 1>even noticing that this was going on in the South. Well,

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:57.200
<v Speaker 1>you couldn't not notice this, And so Birmingham really brings

0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:04.560
<v Speaker 1>the civil rights struggle up to a new level of visibility.

0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>But perhaps the most remarkable part of the Birmingham story

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 1>happened on that Sunday afternoon in early May where we

0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>started this episode. The protesters many on their knees, braced

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 1>themselves yet again for the Birmingham police to unleash the

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 1>dogs and the fire hoses. Bull Connor himself gives the

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 1>order for them to do so. Then for the next

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 1>thirty seconds, something astonishing occurs. Connor's men do nothing. Slowly,

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the protesters stand up and continue forward with their march.

0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Doctor King later described the scene. Connor's men as though hypnotized,

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 1>fell back, their hoses sagging uselessly in their hands, while

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 1>several hundred Negroes marched past them without further interference. It

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.680
<v Speaker 1>would prove to be a defining moment for the civil

0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 1>rights movement, and for King, it was an eye opening event.

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>As he later wrote, I felt there for the first

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:20.040
<v Speaker 1>time the pride and the power of nonviolence. The nonviolent

0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.000
<v Speaker 1>movement had taken the struggle to the heart of the

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Jim Crow South and to the forefront of the national consciousness.

0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>King was thrilled. The activities which have taken place in

0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Birmingham over the last few days into my mind marked

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:45.160
<v Speaker 1>nonviolent movement coming of age. David Garrow again, the images

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:50.120
<v Speaker 1>and impact of Birmingham convinced both of the Kennedy brothers

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.160
<v Speaker 1>that they needed to finally move forward with a meaningful

0:17:54.280 --> 0:18:04.800
<v Speaker 1>civil rights bill. That's the real tangible impact of Birmingham

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.760
<v Speaker 1>longerst passes the most sweeping civil rights bill ever to

0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>be written into the law, and thus reaffirms the conception

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.879
<v Speaker 1>of equality for all men that began with Lincoln and

0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.720
<v Speaker 1>the Civil War one hundred years ago. The summer of

0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty three was a revolution, King later said because

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.040
<v Speaker 1>it changed the face of America. By the time it

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.640
<v Speaker 1>was over, hundreds of lunch counters, hotels, parks, and other

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:33.560
<v Speaker 1>public places had been integrated. King and his nonviolent movement

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 1>continued to win victories and historic legislation over the next

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 1>few years, but not without cost. King led a march

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.159
<v Speaker 1>for voting rights in Alabama in nineteen sixty five that

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.880
<v Speaker 1>resulted in what was called Bloody Sunday. Armed police attacked

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.480
<v Speaker 1>King and other peaceful demonstrators as they walked across the

0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Edmund Pettis Bridge in Selma, just like in Birmingham. Television

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 1>carried the beatings to audiences across the country and the world.

0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Mark Kurlanski again, you know it it worked in a

0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>way that I don't think his opponents understood how well

0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.159
<v Speaker 1>it worked, or they wouldn't have done things like the

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.360
<v Speaker 1>Petest Bridge. You know, the power of people seeing that

0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.120
<v Speaker 1>all over the world. King's non violent campaign was working,

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 1>but he sensed that violence still bubbled just beneath the

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.320
<v Speaker 1>surface during the turbulent times. Here's King on Meet the

0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Press in nineteen sixty. Realism impel impelled me to admit, however,

0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.560
<v Speaker 1>that when there is justice and the pursuit of justice,

0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:34.639
<v Speaker 1>violence disappears. And where there is injustice and frustration, the

0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>potentialities for violence are great. Are those frustrations, and the

0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 1>potential for violence would grow with the nineteen sixties war

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>on Up next, we dip into the shadows of history

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to meet the remarkable man who inspired Dr King's non

0:19:51.119 --> 0:20:22.160
<v Speaker 1>violent approach in the first place. Men for years now

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:27.320
<v Speaker 1>have been talking about one peace. But now no longer

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.359
<v Speaker 1>can they just talked about it is no longer The

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>choice between violence and non violence in this world is

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 1>non violence on non existence. That is where we are today.

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Good evening, Dr Martin Luther King, the apostle of non

0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.720
<v Speaker 1>violence in the civil rights movement, has been shot to

0:20:56.760 --> 0:21:00.159
<v Speaker 1>death in Memphis, Tennessee. Dr King was standing on the

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>balcony of a second floor hotel room tonight, when, according

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 1>to a companion, a shot was fired from across the street,

0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.680
<v Speaker 1>and the friend's words, the bullet exploded in his face.

0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Martin Luther King's legacy is inextricably tied to the non

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>violent approach he championed, but the civil rights leader was

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.480
<v Speaker 1>not always opposed to violence. As a seminary student, he

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.480
<v Speaker 1>expressed skepticism about the virtues of pacifism and non violence.

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Even in the opening days in the Montgomery boycott, King

0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 1>had not yet found his non violent voice. Mark Kurlansky,

0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.639
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of funny the way he's portrayed today, especially

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:49.719
<v Speaker 1>in schools, you know, as as just this kind of

0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.280
<v Speaker 1>dreamy guy who's about peace and love. He was a

0:21:53.480 --> 0:22:00.399
<v Speaker 1>very determined political activist who eventually embraced non violence because

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 1>he became convinced that that would work. And one man

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.320
<v Speaker 1>above all others convinced King that it would work. But

0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.439
<v Speaker 1>King would have to make some changes. First. Let's go

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 1>back to Montgomery. It's February ninety. King's house has just

0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 1>been bombed David Garret. As the Montgomery bus boycott begins

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:26.520
<v Speaker 1>to achieve national news coverage, um civil rights supporters around

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the country begin asking themselves what they can do to

0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:36.919
<v Speaker 1>assist of the Montgomery protesters. One of those prominent northern

0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.400
<v Speaker 1>activists was a forty three year old black Quaker from

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Pennsylvania named Bayard Rustin. A longtime advocate of nonviolent protest,

0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Rustin was concerned by what he saw when he arrived

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.120
<v Speaker 1>in Montgomery, so at the beginning there in Montgomery, even

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 1>though Doctor King believed in a Christian doctrine of love,

0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 1>his interest in nonviolence was not such that he was

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:06.480
<v Speaker 1>prohibiting black community members from standing armed guard. After King's

0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:09.880
<v Speaker 1>house was bombed, armed men kept guard out front each night.

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Byared Rustin came to King's home shortly after the bombing,

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 1>but Byard himself is is taken somewhat aback um when

0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.920
<v Speaker 1>he sits down in a chair at Dr King's home

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and realizes there's a gun in it. King explained that

0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.280
<v Speaker 1>they did not intend to use the firearms or harm

0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 1>anyone unless they were violently attacked. This is Rustin biographer

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 1>John Demelio again, and Rustin explains to him that if

0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:44.000
<v Speaker 1>you want to be modeling non violence, you can't possess guns.

0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:50.399
<v Speaker 1>You actually have to live out completely the philosophy of

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.640
<v Speaker 1>non violence. That was just the first lesson Rustin would

0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.760
<v Speaker 1>provide to the young King. The weapons and armed guards

0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 1>were removed, and so Rustin become ms his tutor and instructor.

0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 1>And really, within the space of a few weeks, it

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:12.000
<v Speaker 1>is not an exaggeration to say that in terms of

0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the strategy, tactics, and philosophy of non violence, Buyard Rustin

0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:24.359
<v Speaker 1>becomes Dr King's most trusted and closest advisor. The tall,

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.359
<v Speaker 1>cosmopolitan Quaker and the short, eloquent Baptist preacher made for

0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.240
<v Speaker 1>quite a pair. It was to be one of the

0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 1>most productive relationships in American history. Rustin immediately recognized kings

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:37.960
<v Speaker 1>raw talent and potential as a leader, but knew he

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 1>still had a long way to go. Dr King justifiably

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:47.640
<v Speaker 1>has become such a heroic figure and so closely associated

0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>with non violence and a mass movement that most people

0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:56.400
<v Speaker 1>don't realize that at the time that Rustin meets him

0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.840
<v Speaker 1>in the early stages of the boycott, R King knows

0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:04.320
<v Speaker 1>about non violence, but he has no training in it.

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:09.520
<v Speaker 1>He has no direct experience in the tactics and strategy

0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:14.040
<v Speaker 1>of a non violent movement, and so starting in Montgomery,

0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Rustin and King had lengthy conversations about non violent principles,

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 1>organizing tactics, and strategic thinking. Rustin even started ghostwriting some

0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:26.600
<v Speaker 1>of King's speeches. King could not have had a better tutor.

0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:29.959
<v Speaker 1>Many in the activist community considered Rusten to be quote

0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:34.240
<v Speaker 1>the American Gandhi. It was not hyperbole. Every fiber in

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Rusten's being was dedicated to the principles of non violence.

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Here's Buyer Rusten, I said to begin when you were

0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:47.119
<v Speaker 1>not like what I am saying. Those people who think

0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:52.800
<v Speaker 1>that we can use guns and knives against tanks and

0:25:52.920 --> 0:26:01.320
<v Speaker 1>buzukas they are in ignorant buns. In the next episode,

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:04.679
<v Speaker 1>we learn more about King's mentor buy Or Drusted, the

0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:08.240
<v Speaker 1>remarkable individual responsible for the March on Washington that launched

0:26:08.359 --> 0:26:11.639
<v Speaker 1>King's dream, a gay man banished behind the scenes of

0:26:11.640 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 1>the civil rights drama, but who still managed to change

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 1>the course of American history from its shadows. We are

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 1>so jes in the army. We have to find. We

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:38.520
<v Speaker 1>have to fry. We got to all the good. We've

0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:51.760
<v Speaker 1>got to all it up. So Jess, We've got to fight.

0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 1>We have to fuy. We've got to all the threat

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>is produced by Libby Coleman, Robert Coulos, Sophia Perpetua, and

0:27:03.359 --> 0:27:07.800
<v Speaker 1>me Sean Braswell. Chris Hoff engineered our show. This episode

0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:11.000
<v Speaker 1>features the Montgomery Gospel Choir with a song called We

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Are Soldiers in the Army. To learn more about the Thread,

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 1>visit ausi dot com, Slash the thread all one word,

0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:20.960
<v Speaker 1>and make sure to subscribe to the Thread on Apple podcasts,

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:23.879
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0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:26.920
<v Speaker 1>get your podcasts. Check us out at ausi dot com

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 1>or on Twitter and Facebook. If you love surprising, engaging

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 1>stories from history, look no further than the flashback section

0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 1>of azzy dot com. That's o z e y dot com.

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:47.720
<v Speaker 1>We got Lost day until