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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Some folks say life is hard,

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Speaker 1: don't do anything to make it any more difficult. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that I do know from experience because

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Speaker 1: I was raised by a single mom for a period

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Speaker 1: of time in my life. Life is particularly difficult for

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Speaker 1: a mama who is raising babies and is trying to

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Speaker 1: make ends meet. It's particularly hard when you might feel

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Speaker 1: lonely and you feel like you need somebody in your life.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is that there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks to choose from out there. If you've got three kids,

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Speaker 1: who's going to take on that burden with you? It's

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Speaker 1: a big ass, But loneliness abides in that world, and

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Speaker 1: it's hard. It's important to remember that you never know

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Speaker 1: who is going to enter your life at any point

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Speaker 1: in time. It could be a saint, or it could

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Speaker 1: be somebody that has very very bad intentions.

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Speaker 2: Angela Raau lived with her children in a Saint Louis suburb.

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Speaker 2: Her family became worried when they hadn't heard from her

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Speaker 2: and asked police to make a welfare check. Dowords at

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Speaker 2: her home were locked, so police climbed through a window.

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Speaker 2: Angela Roau was found dead, covered by blankets. She had

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Speaker 2: been shot four times. Her three young children were also shot,

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Speaker 2: their bodies left lined up on a bed.

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Speaker 1: Today, we're going to talk about the execution homicides of

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Speaker 1: Angela Rowe and her three children, Alexis, Korea and Tyrese.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body bags, single motherhood, Dave.

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Speaker 1: It's a tough thing, even under the best of circumstances,

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Speaker 1: to try to make ends meet and to take care

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Speaker 1: of them babies all the way to adulthood. And when

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Speaker 1: you've got kids that are ranging in age from ten

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Speaker 1: to six to five, what a thing to have to juggle,

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Speaker 1: What a dynamic to have to juggle to make sure

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Speaker 1: all those needs are being met.

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Speaker 3: When you said it's a big ask, I was thinking

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Speaker 3: along the same lines. This is a woman who has

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Speaker 3: three children, she's on her own. We have a crime

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Speaker 3: scene that actually even the medical examiner or the prosecutor

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Speaker 3: rather didn't know exactly when the murders occurred. So let's

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Speaker 3: start there. How is it possible that you have four people,

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Speaker 3: a mom and three children are murdered and you cannot

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Speaker 3: come with any certainty of what day or time they

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Speaker 3: were actually murdered.

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Speaker 1: You look to the science, You look to the science.

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Speaker 1: You look to the science, and sometimes there are so

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Speaker 1: many variables. And let's think about this. If you do

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Speaker 1: a scientific experiment, you can change the outcome of that

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Speaker 1: experiment by adjusting certain variables within the formatting of that experiment.

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Speaker 1: And maybe you're trying to I don't know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to get sinister about it. Maybe you're trying to

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Speaker 1: influence outcomes in a way that you want them to

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Speaker 1: be and you're not doing true science at that point

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Speaker 1: in time. You just kind of let the cards follow

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Speaker 1: where they may. However, what we do know is that

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Speaker 1: when it comes to things like interpretation of postmortem interval PMI,

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Speaker 1: there are any number of factors along the way that

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Speaker 1: are going to impact how bodies change after death. In

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Speaker 1: this particular case, in this brutal homicide involving this young

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Speaker 1: mother her and let's face it, this case, if you

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Speaker 1: were to qualify it numerically, they claim that if you

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Speaker 1: start to get up into the range of three and

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Speaker 1: then you go to four, you can technically begin to

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Speaker 1: use the term mass homicide. Now, let that sink in

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Speaker 1: just for a second. A mass homicide because it is

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Speaker 1: not to diminish other people that have lost loved ones

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Speaker 1: as a result of violence. But when you start to

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Speaker 1: rise above a single individual and you start to get

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Speaker 1: up into the three, the four, those counts like that.

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Speaker 1: If this had been say in an environment like a

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Speaker 1: public gathering place, as opposed to a home, you would

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Speaker 1: hear the media throwing around mass homicide. But this is

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Speaker 1: contained within a home, and containment within the home goes

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Speaker 1: to this idea of trying to measure how long someone

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Speaker 1: has been down. In a particular case, the bodies are

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Speaker 1: protected from view, so you don't have, say, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to a public place where a mass homicide will take place,

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Speaker 1: these bodies are all laying together, contained within a physical

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Speaker 1: structure that is in fact locked from the interior this home,

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Speaker 1: and you can't observe the bodies going through these physical changes.

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Speaker 1: You're essentially there to see what all that remains. And

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Speaker 1: in this case, which I find quite fascinating, this event

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Speaker 1: is actually occurring in November of two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: These bodies of these four victims were not found until

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Speaker 1: December the third of two thousand and four, so you've

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Speaker 1: got this huge lag in time and you begin to

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Speaker 1: think about what was occurring relative to the environment in

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Speaker 1: which they were found, what was going on from a

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Speaker 1: decompositional perspective as to their placement, the internal factors that

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Speaker 1: are affecting the changes of the body, and also are

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Speaker 1: you losing evidence over a period of time, and so

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Speaker 1: those are all things that are considered when we're assessing

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Speaker 1: a scene. And sometimes it's that idea. The further you

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Speaker 1: move down that linear timeline, as you're heading out away

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Speaker 1: from that critical moment in which these people lost their lives,

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Speaker 1: everything is changing all the while, that dynamic is changing

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Speaker 1: all the while. So it has an impact as to

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Speaker 1: how you're going to assess the scene, and in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, it certainly did. I think, Dave, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I'm looking at the actual temperatures for November twenty

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Speaker 3: second November twenty third, in that time period, we're looking

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Speaker 3: out of two thousand and four in Saint Louis, Missouri,

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Speaker 3: and I'm wondering, Joe, I thought, and it's because of television.

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Speaker 3: I know this that I thought. You guys, you go

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Speaker 3: up on the scene and you make a few notes,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, they based on stomach contents and whatever. This

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Speaker 3: person died at nine point fifty eight pm three weeks

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Speaker 3: ago on a Tuesday. I thought that was something you

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Speaker 3: guys did. But I find out now, of course, having

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Speaker 3: been together with you for so many cases, that there

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Speaker 3: is so much more involved. From a temperature standpoint. We

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Speaker 3: know that the bodies were not fresh. Is that the

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Speaker 3: right term?

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Speaker 1: No, it's a term we use. Actually, let me, I'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and plainly stated in my own verbiage and

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Speaker 1: with many of my colleagues, we refer to the fresh dead. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: They have been dead for at least a little period

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Speaker 3: of time, and you have to figure out when this occurred.

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Speaker 3: And in this particular case, day and time really mean

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Speaker 3: a lot. I wonder when you get to a crime

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Speaker 3: scene like this, how do you move forward to find

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Speaker 3: the things you need? Forensically when you're looking at a

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Speaker 3: mom and three children. Now, look, the mom's an adult

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Speaker 3: and she has more wounds than the children. But how

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Speaker 3: do you maintain your composure when you're looking at children

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Speaker 3: a five year old, a six year old, and a

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Speaker 3: ten year old.

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Speaker 1: It's almost as if you stand there. First off, it's

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Speaker 1: very surreal. It's very surreal. It was always very surreal

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Speaker 1: for me. I can't speak to other investigators, all right,

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Speaker 1: but when you begin to try to take in what

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Speaker 1: you're observing relative to the victims, that part of your

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Speaker 1: humanity is looking at these children. We're talking about kids

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Speaker 1: that are ten and six and five that are laying

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Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to their mom's body. It's a surreal moment.

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Speaker 1: Many times it's kind of tried to say, you sold

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Speaker 1: your own and then you deal with all of that

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath. But I have found myself over the

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Speaker 1: years as a death investigator being very, very distracted when

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Speaker 1: you're on a case like this. If you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a singular adult, all right, and you're working the case,

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to kind of adjust your mindset to

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Speaker 1: being very clinical. But there's that one little thread of

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Speaker 1: humanity as you begin to look and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: take in everything that you're seeing, and it's almost as

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Speaker 1: if Dave, the angel of death, has walked through this

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Speaker 1: place and has reaped this grim harvest. Because it's hard

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Speaker 1: to set aside what you're witnessing and rely completely on

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Speaker 1: the science, and in this case, we certainly had to.

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Speaker 1: No scene is the same as the other ones. Keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind. As an investigator, you always have to

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Speaker 1: be clear headed. I don't like to say open minded.

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Speaker 1: There's an old phrase that I've heard many years ago says,

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Speaker 1: be where the man that claims to have an open mind,

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Speaker 1: there's a high probability his brains landed on the floor

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Speaker 1: some time ago. You have to remain objective and clear

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Speaker 1: minded when you walk into a scene, and certainly you

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Speaker 1: have to get past all of that, all of those

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Speaker 1: factors that would negatively influence your ability to assess the scene.

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Speaker 1: An assessment is key here because you know that when

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Speaker 1: you walk in to a scene like this and there

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Speaker 1: has been a lapse time, you've got your senses being affected.

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Speaker 1: There's the sense of smell, there is there visual changes,

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Speaker 1: So you've got the smell of decomposition in the air.

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Speaker 1: And that's by a factor of four. Let's keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind when you think about for each body that

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Speaker 1: is there, they're decomposing. Because they're proximity to one another,

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Speaker 1: they are decomposing at probably the same rate.

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Speaker 3: Does temperature in the room or in the building have

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Speaker 3: anything to do with the decomposition and the speed?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, it certainly does. It's like any other

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Speaker 1: organic material. If you want to preserve it, you cool

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Speaker 1: it down, or in circumstances you can freeze it. You know,

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Speaker 1: decomposition never fully stops, but you can retard its development

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Speaker 1: by application of cooler temperatures. So in this case, when

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Speaker 1: the investigators arrive at the scene and look, I've been

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Speaker 1: to Saint Louis over the years, many many times, and

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Speaker 1: in late November, yeah, it can get warm during that

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Speaker 1: period of time, but most of the time you need

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Speaker 1: a jacket. All right, it's going to and maybe a sweater.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be really cool. And they can have

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Speaker 1: days when it really really gets.

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Speaker 3: Cool, and in this particular case, the daytime high fifty

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Speaker 3: to fifty.

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Speaker 1: Four and when they walked in the temperature setting, I'm

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Speaker 1: saying they You know, one of the things that you

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Speaker 1: observe at a crime scene is you want to look

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Speaker 1: at the thermostat. People don't think about that, but we do.

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Speaker 1: We actually check thermostats and houses to see, first off,

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Speaker 1: that the air is functioning, and then secondly to see

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Speaker 1: what the current temperature is because that's going to give

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Speaker 1: you an indication of what's referred to as an ambient

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Speaker 1: environmental temperature, and that is going to directly impact the

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Speaker 1: rate at which a body decomposes, and so we're faced

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Speaker 1: with four The interior temperature in this home, I think

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Speaker 1: was probably close to about fifty degrees. Now that is

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Speaker 1: not going to that is not going to slow decomposition

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Speaker 1: down to the point where it's non existent. Remembers. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen anyway. Even if bodies are frozen. There's still

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Speaker 1: going to be something going on, but it will slow it.

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Speaker 1: What they were able to assess at the scene with

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Speaker 1: these victims is that the bodies had actually gotten to

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Speaker 1: the point where riger mortis was no longer present. Now

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Speaker 1: that's key because we're not just talking about body temperature,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about rigidity. And if you're out past a

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Speaker 1: marker in time, that means that you're probably past that

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Speaker 1: thirty six hour mark. If bodies become what we refer

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Speaker 1: to as flacid, which means that if you grab the

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Speaker 1: forearm or the wrist of the deceased and you attempt

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Speaker 1: to manipulate the arm and it just kind of easily

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Speaker 1: is moved back and forward. You can move the shoulders

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Speaker 1: because riger really sets in and the shoulders very tightly.

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Speaker 1: You can bend the legs, at the knees and all

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things. That means that certain time has

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Speaker 1: elapsed in order to facilitate that all of the lactic

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Speaker 1: acid that had built up in the joints has now

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Speaker 1: begun to dissipate, and so you no longer have that rigidity.

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Speaker 1: You combine that with the fact that you can vision

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Speaker 1: see that there are color changes going on in the body,

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Speaker 1: which happens with decomposing bodies. You look for things that

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Speaker 1: they're refer to as marbling, skin slippage, all of these

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Speaker 1: other things that happen over a period of time.

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Speaker 3: Joe, when you say skin slippage, what exactly is that.

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Speaker 1: Well, with skin slippage the body, you bodies in particular,

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Speaker 1: and this would have been the case here the bodies

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Speaker 1: that top layer of skin, the epidermis, begins to peel,

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Speaker 1: It literally begins to peel. And so when you touch

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Speaker 1: the body, even with a gloved hand, and this is

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Speaker 1: probably going to set some people on edge when they

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Speaker 1: hear this, but if you touch a bare arm where

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Speaker 1: their skin slippage, you wrap your hand, your gloved hand

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Speaker 1: around the wrist and you go to move the body

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Speaker 1: so you can either place in a bag or examine

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Speaker 1: the body. The skin will almost always kind of move.

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Speaker 1: That epidermis will move away, and you'll beg to see

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Speaker 1: down into the dermis. And when I say move, just

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Speaker 1: imagine if you've ever been sunburned and after a period

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Speaker 1: of time, you begin to peel. Okay, that's the epidermis

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Speaker 1: coming loose. Well, it happens as a normal biological process

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Speaker 1: in decomposition, and again that's another time marker. So you

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Speaker 1: have bodies that begin to have skin slippage. You have marbling,

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Speaker 1: which occurs in decomposition, which is and this is kind

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Speaker 1: of an interesting manifestation you have when we say marble.

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Speaker 1: Just imagine the lines that you see in a block

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Speaker 1: of marble. Okay, those little dark lines that run through it.

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Speaker 1: You'll see this marbling where the blood that is contained

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Speaker 1: in those superficial vessels has begun to actually decompose within

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Speaker 1: the vessels. The blood decomposing in those vessels will actually

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Speaker 1: begin to make them stand out externally so that you

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Speaker 1: can kind of follow them. So you get these kind

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Speaker 1: of curvelinear lines, if you will, that run through the body,

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Speaker 1: and that's actually another sign of decomposition. So all of

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Speaker 1: these things are markers along the way. In the case

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Speaker 1: of this family with Angela Rowe, she's been shot multiple times,

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Speaker 1: her children have been executed. Okay, you begin to try

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Speaker 1: to take the measure of what you're seeing and you

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Speaker 1: understand that this is not something as an investigator that

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Speaker 1: happened recently, that someone was able to have access to her.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, the house was locked from the

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Speaker 1: interior and there was an open window on the back

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Speaker 1: of the house. That whoever left that house that perpetrated

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Speaker 1: this crime exited through a window and they would not

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Speaker 1: have been seen necessarily walking out the front door. It

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Speaker 1: was done in stealth and probably under the cover of darkness.

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Speaker 1: More than likely, you have this instance where the bodies

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Speaker 1: are there and you're trying to understand the dynamic of

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Speaker 1: what's happened. And here's the chilling thing as an investigator,

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Speaker 1: that you've got a family that has been wiped out

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Speaker 1: in that moment, and all along the further you move

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Speaker 1: out of time, more evidence is being lost, the physical

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Speaker 1: changes are taking place, and nothing ever appears as it

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Speaker 1: did on the day that the event occurred. Dave, you know,

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Speaker 1: I hate the question why I think here though it's

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Speaker 1: more important to try to understand who would want to

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Speaker 1: eradicate a mother and her three kids. And you know,

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Speaker 1: this name arose in this case, Leonard Taylor, the mother's boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: and this thread that runs through Angela Rose life seems

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Speaker 1: to be to this man.

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Speaker 2: Leonard Taylor, was arrested in the deaths of Angelo Rowe

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Speaker 2: and her children, but the case became a he said,

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Speaker 2: she said situation. Taylor says he was in California when

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Speaker 2: they died. Taylor left Saint Louis on November twenty sixth.

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Speaker 2: He had plane tickets to California. The reservations for that

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Speaker 2: flight were made on November twenty fifth. But then there's

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Speaker 2: information coming from some of Taylor's family members saying he

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Speaker 2: confessed and saying that he was seen disposing of a

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Speaker 2: gun in a sewer near family member's home. Taylor repeatedly

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Speaker 2: told police that he did not kill his girlfriend and

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Speaker 2: her children.

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Speaker 3: Why I was asking you earlier about the temperature and

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Speaker 3: what it would have to do, you know, with decomposition,

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Speaker 3: because of when the when this family was found versus

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Speaker 3: when the crime occurred, when were they killed, and building

293
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Speaker 3: that timeline is what detectives have to do to make

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Speaker 3: sure where they can get the right person. All I

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Speaker 3: can think, Joe, from a forensic standpoint, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of pressure on you to tell the detective where's that

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Speaker 3: window that this event happened. At the time. What was

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Speaker 3: Leonard Taylor doing? He was dating Angela Rowe. He had

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Speaker 3: a relationship with her in Saint Louis. But this man

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Speaker 3: also had a wife in California, another girlfriend in Kentucky,

301
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Speaker 3: and he was juggling these relationships. Leonard Taylor, according to

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Speaker 3: his brother, claimed that Angela Rowe was coming at him

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Speaker 3: with a knife, so he shot her, and more than

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Speaker 3: once because he couldn't get her to stop. That's what

305
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Speaker 3: his brother told us about Leonard Taylor on the night

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Speaker 3: this happened. So to get right down to the bottom line,

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Speaker 3: Leonard Taylor was married to Debrin Williams in California. He

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Speaker 3: called his brother from Angela Rowe's place and and told

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Speaker 3: him that he had killed Angela. He said, I didn't

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Speaker 3: mean to kill her, but she came at me with

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Speaker 3: a knife and I couldn't get her off of me.

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Speaker 3: He says, I shot her two or three times.

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask were the ten year old the six

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Speaker 1: year old and the five year old also coming at

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Speaker 1: him as well.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering, Joe, what were they possibly doing other than

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Speaker 3: none of this makes sense from his standpoint. You got

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Speaker 3: to remember he's telling his brother the story that he

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Speaker 3: thinks will make him look the least evil. But it's evil.

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Speaker 3: When you kill a mother and her children, you are

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Speaker 3: the definition of evil. And even if she was chasing

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Speaker 3: him with a knife and the children were all coming

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Speaker 3: at him with knives and his only defense was to

324
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Speaker 3: kill him, you'd have thought he would have had some wounds,

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Speaker 3: some injuries, but none.

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Speaker 1: Let me kind of frame this for you too. If

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Speaker 1: you think that's bad, let me throw I got another

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Speaker 1: one for you. When the examination was performed on these victims,

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Speaker 1: these victims of this massacre, it was determined that Angela,

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Speaker 1: the mother, had multiple gunshot wounds. So she's got four

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounes. She's got two to her left arm, one

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Speaker 1: to her chest. And I guess what people will refer

333
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Speaker 1: to as the coup de gras is a GSW two

334
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Speaker 1: her head, which they believe is what finished her off.

335
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Speaker 1: And that makes sense. You've got alexis, her ten year old,

336
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Speaker 1: and they've both sustained gunshot wounds to the head, and

337
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Speaker 1: then Tyrese, a five year old, has sustained a fatal

338
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Speaker 1: gunshot one to the head.

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Speaker 3: One thing to point out, Joe, is that ten year

340
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Speaker 3: old Alexis was shot twice in the head, six year

341
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Speaker 3: old Krea was shot twice in the head, and Tyrese,

342
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Speaker 3: the five year old little boy, was shot once. Is

343
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Speaker 3: there any significance to that in terms of forensics when

344
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Speaker 3: you look at this, does it when you're looking at

345
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Speaker 3: why did it take two here? Two here in one here?

346
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Speaker 3: Or is it just that's the way it was?

347
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Speaker 1: No. I think probably the more substantive consideration we have

348
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Speaker 1: here is the fact that the forensics revealed that this

349
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Speaker 1: was either a thirty eight caliber revolver, remember I'm saying revolver,

350
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Speaker 1: or a three point fifty seven revolver. And when you

351
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 1: look at this, and you know what a standard revolver

352
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: holds are six rounds. Just with Angela alone, she was

353
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Speaker 1: shot four times, and you've got Alexis who shot twice.

354
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Speaker 1: You've got a Krea who shot twice. You see in

355
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Speaker 1: a pattern here Now we're at six, we're at eight rounds.

356
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Speaker 1: And then you get up to Tyrese. The five year old,

357
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Speaker 1: he shot one more, Dave, whoever did this? When it's

358
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: not like a semi automatic weapon where you've got a

359
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: magazine that fits into the weapon people famously see these.

360
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: You've got the slide that you charge the weapon with

361
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: and fire it. Maybe you've got fourteen rounds, depending upon

362
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,639
Speaker 1: the weapon, you know, and it's ejecting shells. That's not

363
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: what happens with a revolver. You've got six shots, so

364
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: you have to literally open up the cylinder, dump out

365
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: the expended rounds, then purpose to reload the weapon and

366
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Speaker 1: fire it. So that makes this all the more ghastly

367
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Speaker 1: when you think about it. It worked many years ago

368
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: a case where three men were placed on a sofa

369
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Speaker 1: and they were all shot multiple times with the same weapon,

370
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: and it was a revolver. And I'll never forget. They

371
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: were interlocked in their arms. They were forced by a

372
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Speaker 1: drug game to hold to interlock their arms at the elbows.

373
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Speaker 1: And those were reloads as well. And here's the image

374
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Speaker 1: that is kind of painted. Something horrible is happening. If

375
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Speaker 1: this is a thirty eight caliber, or it's certainly a

376
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Speaker 1: three fifty seven, which is a magnum load, you can't

377
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Speaker 1: get past the sound. You got these three babies, Dave,

378
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: that are listening to this. They're hearing the screams. The

379
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: mom has raised her arm, apparently because she's been shot

380
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: twice in the arm. She has an awareness that this

381
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: is the end. She screams out. And you've got these

382
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Speaker 1: three babies that are bearing witness to this. And certainly,

383
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Speaker 1: if they were not necessarily eyewitnesses at the time, there

384
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: were certainly earwitnesses. You can't escape the report of this

385
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: weapon contained within this home. In there, the sound travels.

386
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: Everywhere during the time that he had to reload. Who

387
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: was still alive?

388
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: That's a question that only the sweet Lord above has

389
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: the answer for, because we don't know. But we know that,

390
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: and that adds to the level of horror here. We

391
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: know that somebody had to have been alive to bear

392
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: witness to this, because it appears that they were all

393
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Speaker 1: shot with the same weapon. And as it turns out,

394
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 1: the perpetrate in this case was witnessed throwing away a

395
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: revolver into sewer to get rid of it, and they

396
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: never That was one of the problems that the forensics

397
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: had is that they could never get their hands, I

398
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: think on this weapon to determine if it was a

399
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 1: thirty eight or three fifty seven. These rounds are akin

400
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: to one another in the sense of thirty eight. It

401
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: sounds counterintuitive. It's a point thirty eight caliber is smaller

402
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: than point three five seven. And when I say smaller,

403
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: the actual cartridge for the three fifty seven is bigger.

404
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: Remember I said it's a magnum. You can actually take

405
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: a thirty eight caliber round and fire it out of

406
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: a three point fifty seven magnum revolver. But you cannot

407
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: do that with a three fifty seven magnum and place

408
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: it into a thirty eight caliber revolver and fire it

409
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: because cartridge is too big. But these rounds, when you're

410
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: examining them in the ballistics lab, these rounds will come

411
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: apart many times, and it's hard to determine exactly what

412
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: caliber it is. And if the rounds are deformed, it's

413
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: hard to kind of put your finger on that.

414
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: Now, Joe, you've been through a lot of crimes over

415
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: the years in terms of testifying and research, But when

416
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 3: you don't have the murder weapon as evidence, when you

417
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: don't have that, do you think sometimes we get lost

418
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: on trying to prove thirty eight three fifty seven versus

419
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: what the jury. We'll see, we don't have a gun,

420
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: we've got four dead people who shouldn't be dead, and

421
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 3: we've got one suspect to the crime and no others.

422
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: Does law enforcement get wrapped up in the gun when

423
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that much to the jury, when you

424
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: don't have the weapon, How much does it mean to

425
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: the jury?

426
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: I think the jury's probably if you're saying that you're

427
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: dealing with a homicide. One of the things that prosecution

428
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: has to do is to try to explain to the jury,

429
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: just as you had just mentioned, that you do have

430
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: these four individuals that are dead at the hand of

431
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: the accused, and that wherever that weapon is he wielded it.

432
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: So a lot of that you have to combine the

433
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: data that you do possess with the circumstantial evidence that

434
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: they were able to develop along the way to try

435
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: to understand this horror show, because that's at the end,

436
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: that's what it all comes down to, and it's a

437
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,719
Speaker 1: combination of all of the information. You go to someone

438
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: physically setting the thermostat in the house in order to

439
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: drop that temperature down, and there's another little piece to this.

440
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: There were newspapers deposited in the front yard that had

441
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: not been being picked up, and that's another thing that

442
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: you look for. You know, you look for stacked mail,

443
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: You look for newspapers, that sort of thing that are

444
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: being collected. And know what, you don't have evidence of

445
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: an individual coming out of the home collecting these things

446
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: and then they disappearing from sight. That means it jumps

447
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: outside of the norm. That's another circumstantial element to this.

448
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: Then you think about the people that are contained within

449
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: the intimate circle. Certainly, make no bones about it. Mister Taylor,

450
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: though he had a wife in California and he's got

451
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: a girlfriend in Kentucky, he's spending time in this home.

452
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: He's cohabitating here at least for some period of time. Well,

453
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: he vanishes off of the face of the planet at

454
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: this moment in time and beats feet for California, and

455
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: you have to explain, well, what was your motivation for

456
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: leaving this home? And then, oh, by the way, the

457
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: four people that are domiciled there with you at least

458
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: part time all have multiple gunshot ones and you're nowhere

459
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: around and so you begin to pile on those circumstances

460
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: and combine that with physical evidence, and you think about

461
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: access and opportunity and motive, it paints a very bleak

462
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: picture for him, and of course, as it turns out,

463
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: on February the seventh, twenty twenty three, Taylor was executed

464
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: in Missouri State Penitentiary. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

465
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: is bodybacks