Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its being what Carl slammed it out?
Speaker 2: Carl left wing free ball.
Speaker 1: Perfect, Darl b pop then hell left block the shot
Speaker 1: at the rim. How it's the left hand head of fowl.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Chase Doown Podcast, part of the Caves
Speaker 3: Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Down
Speaker 3: was presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves.
Speaker 3: Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports
Speaker 3: and TV, including FanDuel Sports Network without cable. There's no
Speaker 3: cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot
Speaker 3: com Slash Calves. The Indiana Pacers struck first against the Calves,
Speaker 3: stealing home court in game one, and the Calves might
Speaker 3: be a little worse for wear as a result of it.
Speaker 3: Joining me today to discuss this is my co host,
Speaker 3: Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 4: Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 2: I think it's our first. Our pets are our pets
Speaker 2: heads are falling off of the year, you know, pretty
Speaker 2: good to make it to May, uh before we have
Speaker 2: one of those overall, though, you know, uh, Calves Land
Speaker 2: less pleasant than it's been for the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: But I did just have a nice anniversary trip with
Speaker 2: my wife to New York. So you know, there's pros
Speaker 2: and cons in this life. Yeah, you win some, you
Speaker 2: lose some, and we got to win for ourselves.
Speaker 3: Here making his return to the podcast from ninety two
Speaker 3: three to the Fan as well, now doing pre and
Speaker 3: postgame coverage for Rock Entertainment Sports Network.
Speaker 4: Anthony lia Lima, Tony, how you doing.
Speaker 1: Buddy, guys, It's an honor. I'm not gonna sit here
Speaker 1: and act like I'm scared. I'm not gonna act like
Speaker 1: our pets heads are falling off. Although if you listen
Speaker 1: to some people, you would think that there might have
Speaker 1: been more Utah jazz available after Rudy Gobert gave everybody
Speaker 1: the COVID a few years ago. I mean, what happened?
Speaker 1: What happened? The negativity as if we still don't have,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty good players and a pretty good superstar
Speaker 1: who I've seen score fifty on one leg before in
Speaker 1: the playoffs. So I am I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: deterred until maybe I see that injury report officially tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the injury report is a little scary. I think
Speaker 3: it's important to keep in mind that even if every
Speaker 3: questionable player does not play, and you know that would
Speaker 3: be a serious blow, you'd be losing basically, you know,
Speaker 3: the driving force of your offense, and Darius Garland the
Speaker 3: driving force of your defense, and Evan Mobley. You would
Speaker 3: still be out there with an all starbuck guard and
Speaker 3: an all star big man. And that is pretty much
Speaker 3: the roster construction of the Indiana Pacers. And you have
Speaker 3: a very good home court crowd. But before we get
Speaker 3: into what went wrong in game one and kind of
Speaker 3: look ahead to this series, let the people know what
Speaker 3: you've been doing with that Rock Entertainment Sports Network or
Speaker 3: I guess you know one game in to that experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't screw it up too bad in the opener,
Speaker 1: although some lady that showed up at the set, which
Speaker 1: is right there in the atrium over at Rocket Arena,
Speaker 1: when she found out who I was, she wasn't so sure.
Speaker 1: She still wanted me to sign the autographs along with
Speaker 1: AC and Booby Gibson, because I can't a value that
Speaker 1: I can't do that, so I spared her. But no,
Speaker 1: it's been fun jumping on coverage starting here in the
Speaker 1: second round. A week's to have two months plus of
Speaker 1: coverage with pre and post. You know, mostly an hour before,
Speaker 1: hour after, depending on some variance there. But we're excited.
Speaker 1: Kaylee Griffin, who everybody knows and Caves Caves Nation, she
Speaker 1: is going to be holding it down. She is a pro,
Speaker 1: along with Ac Booby and John Michael and Serena, John Michaels, everybody,
Speaker 1: the whole crew and some of the cast of characters
Speaker 1: over at Channel nineteen are locally in Cleveland a part
Speaker 1: of it. So we are pumped. And I'm telling you
Speaker 1: I signed up for two months. I did not sign
Speaker 1: up for a week and a half. Okay, let understand that.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm getting paid for two months.
Speaker 3: You're letting them know. That's what this is about right now.
Speaker 3: As you mentioned, the coverage will start one hour before
Speaker 3: tip off with these games Game two, it will be
Speaker 3: a half hour just because of the earlier kind of
Speaker 3: funky start time there. I excited to watch that on
Speaker 3: Rock Entertainment Sports Network, and I should mention it's also
Speaker 3: simulcast on My Cleveland forty three as well as fan
Speaker 3: Duel Sports Network, so you guys can be checking it
Speaker 3: out there before we dive into the Game one. More
Speaker 3: piece of business. Kenny Atkinson officially Coach of the Year.
Speaker 3: You know, he certainly earned it throughout the regular season,
Speaker 3: and he may have to earn it in Game two
Speaker 3: depending on availabilities. But I think the way that Kenny
Speaker 3: has managed this roster all season long, no matter who
Speaker 3: is available, you know, finding ways to get the most
Speaker 3: out of the depth of this.
Speaker 4: Team has been one of the major stories of this season.
Speaker 1: You know, I can tell you guys that he deserved
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year because I do a sports talk
Speaker 1: radio show from six to ten AM in Cleveland, and
Speaker 1: there was nothing to criticize basically the entire season except
Speaker 1: for one Oklahoma City game. Sorry, I got Cavalier Kitty
Speaker 1: here trying to mess with the paper towels which you're
Speaker 1: holding up the camera. Very high tech set up here.
Speaker 1: But the fact that we didn't really have a lot
Speaker 1: of anguish a lot of sports talk topics trying to
Speaker 1: critique things that the Cavs were doing, which you know
Speaker 1: is my land. Like, we had a filled time with
Speaker 1: other things because we couldn't just sit there and pick
Speaker 1: on them, and it was incredible. You know. Look, I
Speaker 1: think one of the advantages I said that I thought
Speaker 1: the Cavs had. It's why I had the over at
Speaker 1: the start of the year on their win total. Was
Speaker 1: familiarity right. They didn't have the turnover that some of
Speaker 1: the rosters had, and I thought that if they could
Speaker 1: just stay healthy, they're gonna win a lot of games.
Speaker 1: I did not see this win total. I did not
Speaker 1: see this level of dominance, the historical offensive numbers that
Speaker 1: were there almost through the entire season, the wire to
Speaker 1: wire number one seed, and you've got to give a
Speaker 1: coach credit for that. Empowering players, which there's just I
Speaker 1: love the way every time Kenny talks. I love, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to get on his levels psychologically because forget x's
Speaker 1: and o's, Yeah, he can do that. He's also got
Speaker 1: assistance for that. There are interns around the league that
Speaker 1: can draw x's and o's. You gotta have the players
Speaker 1: to do it. But he knew he had the players.
Speaker 1: He knew this was a great job to take. But
Speaker 1: also that term power mitt and you could see the
Speaker 1: Cavs grow in confidence throughout the season. Yes, it's a
Speaker 1: regular season award. I'm fully aware they're down one game
Speaker 1: to nothing, and I'm fully aware that there might be
Speaker 1: some haters on social media that might be somehow pointing
Speaker 1: the blame at him in game one. I don't see
Speaker 1: eye to eye on that whatsoever. And I think he's
Speaker 1: going to make some interesting adjustments, and I know we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about it. But he deserved the award,
Speaker 1: and by the way, no shade JB. Bickerstaff. He deserved second.
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought he was spectacular this year. And
Speaker 1: you know JB has got to do a lot of
Speaker 1: growing as a head coach. I think Kenny Atkinson has
Speaker 1: done a lot of growing. He would tell you that
Speaker 1: in his role as a head coach. So no shade
Speaker 1: on Bickerstaff. I thought he was great all year. Detroit
Speaker 1: was actually if you don't mind getting in the muck
Speaker 1: and in the mud. I thought they were fun to watch,
Speaker 1: believe it or not. And in the end I thought
Speaker 1: it was going to be a runaway, and I think
Speaker 1: was it. To tabulate the results, there was a pretty
Speaker 1: much a runaway.
Speaker 3: It was a pretty comfortable win. JB got a I
Speaker 3: think Kenny had twenty more first place votes.
Speaker 1: Do we feel bad for dag over there at Oklahoma City. No,
Speaker 1: It's almost like Jim Tressel and urban Meyer couldn't win
Speaker 1: Big Ten Coach of the Year ever, and Oklahoma City
Speaker 1: was you know, they were so impressive, but you know,
Speaker 1: it just seemed like this was Kenny's award from the
Speaker 1: from the second half of the season on.
Speaker 2: I just think, like, you know, when we were talking
Speaker 2: about these awards, it just felt like the most like
Speaker 2: it was like the best science experiment you could have,
Speaker 2: Like because we all know this is the award we
Speaker 2: can judge the least well, right, Like we're not in practice,
Speaker 2: We don't literally watch them coach, you know, we don't
Speaker 2: know what decisions are theirs and what decisions are their staffs,
Speaker 2: you know, unless they happened to tell us, and so like,
Speaker 2: you know, we never ever really get to know whether
Speaker 2: a player got better because he went in the gym
Speaker 2: and worked hard and got his body right, or because
Speaker 2: coach taught him a new way to think about his game.
Speaker 2: Like we just don't get to know as much. It's
Speaker 2: not as objective of a thing to observe, So you know,
Speaker 2: I kind of felt like Kenny's whole year was like
Speaker 2: the most you know, you know, like in a science experiment,
Speaker 2: you always have a control group like feels like like
Speaker 2: the rest of the organization was the control group because
Speaker 2: everything was the same except Kenny. So like it was
Speaker 2: very easy to ascribe a lot of this growth to
Speaker 2: the things that he brought to the table and a
Speaker 2: lot of the conversations he had with everyone. And you know,
Speaker 2: you couldn't be like, oh, well, you know, like with Detroit,
Speaker 2: you could be like, hey, yeah, they are a lot better.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. But they also brought in a bunch of
Speaker 2: adults in the room. They added It's Obias Harris and
Speaker 2: as Tim Hardaway Junior, and a bunch of guys who've
Speaker 2: been in the league for a while. They weren't just
Speaker 2: playing a fleet of nineteen year olds this year. Like
Speaker 2: you couldn't really say that about the Cavs, Like, and
Speaker 2: like I have felt all year that just chalking it
Speaker 2: all up to Kenny is like maybe not exactly what
Speaker 2: I would do, though I think he's had obviously an
Speaker 2: amazing year, and I think he should have been Coach
Speaker 2: of the Year. But like, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: like what we can evaluate that a coach does well.
Speaker 2: He did well. The rotations were good, he got good
Speaker 2: contributions from the depth his stars got better, the offense hummed,
Speaker 2: the pace went way up, Like all the markers that
Speaker 2: you're looking for are there. And I think you made
Speaker 2: the right point in terms of him wanting this job.
Speaker 2: And I think I've said it a lot. Our listeners
Speaker 2: are probably sick of me saying it, but I to
Speaker 2: this day still think the best thing Kenny did with
Speaker 2: this roster was want to coach the roster that he
Speaker 2: signed up to coach. You know, I am sure that
Speaker 2: guys went in and interviewed and talked about how they're
Speaker 2: going to move ev into the five full time and
Speaker 2: how you know, they really want to lean in on
Speaker 2: Donovan as a lead creator, you know, because there were
Speaker 2: a lot of there was a lot of you know,
Speaker 2: people who even people whose opinions I respect, even though
Speaker 2: I didn't agree with it, that felt that way that
Speaker 2: they needed to streamline their roster construction. And it seemed
Speaker 2: like from the jump Kenny was like, no, I'll take this.
Speaker 2: What you got good for me.
Speaker 1: It's a great balancing act for us people that critique
Speaker 1: or people like us that enjoy the game, and we're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out and synthesize all this different information
Speaker 1: with all these games in a new game to add
Speaker 1: to the calculus every single time when you don't want
Speaker 1: to give too much credit to the coach, because in
Speaker 1: the end, it's gonna be the players. Like in the NBA.
Speaker 1: We know just asked you ask Malone in Denver. In
Speaker 1: the end, the players are the ones that are probably
Speaker 1: going to be there. When we saw that with the Cavs,
Speaker 1: so you know, part of me is like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think Evan would have been pretty good with a lot
Speaker 1: of different coaches in the league. But there's no doubt
Speaker 1: you could see a stark difference in the confidence in
Speaker 1: the ball handling, in him understanding the angles and driving
Speaker 1: at the point of attack. We already know we had
Speaker 1: the defensive thing down. I mean we we saw that
Speaker 1: his rookie quite literally his rookie year. I mean I
Speaker 1: could even make an argument that I thought Evan might
Speaker 1: have played better defense, you know, a year ago or
Speaker 1: two years ago than he did this year. An he
Speaker 1: wins Defensive Player of the Year. But it is a
Speaker 1: testament to Kenny that you know, these guys are now paid.
Speaker 1: You got guys that have real money or are in
Speaker 1: line for some big time money. But where are the
Speaker 1: egos and there are teams, whether you have young guys
Speaker 1: or old guys, that balancing the egos is an impossible
Speaker 1: pursuit around this league over time. And you know, I
Speaker 1: credit Kobe Altman too, I mean GM of the Year. Sure,
Speaker 1: why not for keeping the exact same team? Sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: especially some of the names I was rattling off at
Speaker 1: the end of last year that I was trying to
Speaker 1: think about, should we break up the nucleus? Is this
Speaker 1: team have a limited ceiling? And of course we'll revisit
Speaker 1: all of that depending on how things go in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: But look again, this Cavs team ruined my season as
Speaker 1: a sports talk shock chock radio host because where was
Speaker 1: the criticism? Where what people said, I've sold out, I've
Speaker 1: been too much of a Homer this season. I've even
Speaker 1: said nice things about Max Shruce. How does that happens? Good?
Speaker 3: Kenny Is As a loyal listener every single day, I
Speaker 3: still found those little bits of information, those little takes
Speaker 3: that you didn't have enough nuance on, And I've let
Speaker 3: you know, and I've let Ken know every single damn
Speaker 3: time because I am looking for things to be upset about.
Speaker 3: And you know what that really makes this fertile ground
Speaker 3: for me when the Cavs lose a playoff game, because
Speaker 3: there is no shortage of that. I think one of
Speaker 3: the great things that Kenny has done this season is
Speaker 3: get the team to look like they're all on the
Speaker 3: same page on both ends of the court. I think
Speaker 3: it's been a consistent theme throughout this season. It just
Speaker 3: did not appear to be the case to start Game one.
Speaker 3: I thought, honestly, the point of attack defense was probably
Speaker 3: the most jarring thing for me. Whether it's Donovan, Mitchell, Ty,
Speaker 3: Jerome sam Merril, Max Struce, I honestly thought had in
Speaker 3: the first half, probably had one of his worst defensive games. Honestly,
Speaker 3: Art City Baby, all of them were really really struggling
Speaker 3: on that end when it came to containing the point
Speaker 3: of attack. And I think once you lose integrity at
Speaker 3: that front line, it's going to get you into rotations,
Speaker 3: it's going to get you scrambling, and you're going to
Speaker 3: give up quality looks. And the thing that came to
Speaker 3: my mind was, is this kind of like when we
Speaker 3: would play Toronto in the Eastern Conference Finals and it
Speaker 3: would affect Game one against Golden State. It reminds me
Speaker 3: of you know, the two games, most recent games we
Speaker 3: played against Boston, We're coming off forty point wins, and
Speaker 3: I just feel like anytime you are in one of
Speaker 3: those situations, it hurts your ability to be sharp in
Speaker 3: that next game. So I guess the real question is,
Speaker 3: is this the Miami Heats first win of the postseason.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it because I've been ripping
Speaker 1: on heat cultures. I know you guys have done yeomen's
Speaker 1: work doing just that because they deserve it, and the
Speaker 1: Cavs might have ended it once and for all. You're right,
Speaker 1: maybe this was maybe this was from the grave pat Riley,
Speaker 1: if we checked in on him as the godfather doing okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe Tyler hero is still talking somewhere about counting this
Speaker 1: on his playoff registry. Oh look, it was jarring. It
Speaker 1: was one thing I was legitimately worried about. I did
Speaker 1: tell everybody like I was nervous about a quarter and
Speaker 1: a half of this game going in. Not because I
Speaker 1: didn't think we had the personnel advantage, not because I
Speaker 1: didn't think that we were going to be successful in
Speaker 1: the series. It was simply because it was jarring. It's
Speaker 1: like going from you know, Algebras all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're in trigonometry honors, like, yeah, it's a big step, right,
Speaker 1: it's a huge step. And in this case, you know
Speaker 1: what lessons? What did we learn from the Calves domination
Speaker 1: of the Miami Heat other than we're good, we know
Speaker 1: we're good. We care they might have a foot out
Speaker 1: the door, and I think we would have beat them
Speaker 1: if they had. Jimmy Butler like, that's how good the
Speaker 1: Calves were. But what lessons did we really learn? And
Speaker 1: sometimes and I thought this happened through some of the
Speaker 1: wind streaks, for the Caves develop bad habits by winning.
Speaker 1: And I know that sounds silly, right, But if you're
Speaker 1: Kenny Atkinson, how are you gonna get your guys' attention?
Speaker 1: It's one thing to talk about, Hey, take this is
Speaker 1: a legitimate threat. Look at this pacer tape. Understand what
Speaker 1: they are doing. They are better than maybe anybody in
Speaker 1: the NBA getting you involved in the crossmatch circus and
Speaker 1: getting you scrambling and getting you out of discipline closeouts,
Speaker 1: and if you come out on the wrong foot, they
Speaker 1: will take advantage. They understand how to drive baseline and
Speaker 1: still with a head on a swivel to make sure
Speaker 1: they can still find angles and shooters in the right
Speaker 1: compartments on the floor. It's one thing to teach that
Speaker 1: for those off days, it's another thing when you actually
Speaker 1: see it. And so yeah, I was disappointed, like every
Speaker 1: Cabs fan that it seemed like they were not ready
Speaker 1: in that first quarter. And unfortunately, you know, when you
Speaker 1: start losing guys one by one, some of that cohesiveness,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody trying to have their hands on the rope.
Speaker 1: But all of a sudden, the guy next ex he
Speaker 1: was gone, and somebody knew is in, and the rotations
Speaker 1: have totally been shaken, and you're playing a team that
Speaker 1: you saw it, that was a confident team coming down
Speaker 1: the road, a team that say what you want about
Speaker 1: who they played to get to the Eastern Conference Finals
Speaker 1: last year. In their mind, they're in the Eastern Conference
Speaker 1: Finals team, and they came into the series believing that.
Speaker 1: And they've got a good coach too. They've got a
Speaker 1: championship head coach. You know, Kenny sat on some championship benches,
Speaker 1: but they've got a championship head coach. So they were
Speaker 1: not going to be intimidated. They weren't with all that said,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there in the third quarter saying this game's over.
Speaker 1: I got a little cocky. And the Cavaliers got every
Speaker 1: loose fall in that third quarter, they got, you know,
Speaker 1: positive contributions for defensively, I mean, Isaac Mcoro, Max Truce,
Speaker 1: bat out of hell, coming in and saving possessions. Evan Mobley,
Speaker 1: your Cavs working really hard to win the fifty to
Speaker 1: fifty loose ball. Luck was a luck yesterday. In that
Speaker 1: third quarter, they did everything to turn that building around
Speaker 1: to where it was essentially on fire, one of the
Speaker 1: loudest crowds, Great Anthony said he had ever seen. And
Speaker 1: then what did Indiana do? They closed the quarter. We
Speaker 1: kind of maybe botched a two for one, you know,
Speaker 1: Donovan Files Siakam and instead of your two for one,
Speaker 1: they end up plus one on those final possessions. And
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I'm gonna file that away because
Speaker 1: that showed me that Indiana could take a CounterPunch and
Speaker 1: they could deliver yet another one. And they were feeling
Speaker 1: good about themselves going in to the huddle in the
Speaker 1: fourth quarter. And I don't think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: teams in the NBA that could have combatd that cavalanche
Speaker 1: where the Cavs were swarming to that extent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does feel like I do want to ask
Speaker 2: about the readiness side of things, because like, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think I you know, I think there's some
Speaker 2: people that could, you know, make the argument or make
Speaker 2: the case like, oh, they didn't respect you know, they
Speaker 2: got high in their own supply, you know, they they
Speaker 2: didn't respect this Pacers team. I was kind of lean
Speaker 2: the other way where I think they were all just
Speaker 2: a little deferential stylistically, where they kind of let they
Speaker 2: kind of hung back and and and let Indy kind
Speaker 2: of dictate the terms a little bit. You know, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know if like I think it was in
Speaker 2: that third quarter quarter spurt when a Strus hit either
Speaker 2: Alan or Mobley on the alley oop, like that empty
Speaker 2: side pick and roll after the ball swung around and
Speaker 2: like where was that possession?
Speaker 4: The whole game?
Speaker 2: You know, they were just spending so much time, uh,
Speaker 2: setting these setting these these screens on nim hard on
Speaker 2: the other side of the floor, not really getting an advantage,
Speaker 2: not really pressing really just kind of like hanging, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of like patiently letting him reconnect to the ball handler,
Speaker 2: and like I and I just kind of felt that
Speaker 2: way on both sides of the floor, Like they just
Speaker 2: kind of were overly deferential to the style.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: The coolest thing about that Miami's is the thing I
Speaker 2: thought I learned about that Miami series was that the
Speaker 2: Calves have learned that you need to hit first, Like,
Speaker 2: and that's not like in the game in the game
Speaker 2: like winning first. It's literally hitting them before they hit you.
Speaker 4: And I felt like.
Speaker 2: Indiana really controlled the game physically because they were playing
Speaker 2: so assertive, because they were playing their style. And when
Speaker 2: I say physically, I don't mean the hard fouls. I
Speaker 2: mean the pushing, the grabbing, the bumping. Like I just
Speaker 2: feel like they hit first over and over and over again,
Speaker 2: and I like, I just like left that game begging
Speaker 2: the Calves play your game, your game. When you play
Speaker 2: your game, you are better than them when they play
Speaker 2: their game. And like that's like the best compliment I
Speaker 2: can give to a Rick Carlile team is they're really
Speaker 2: really hard to drag out of their style.
Speaker 1: Well, what's funny is their defensive profile and I know
Speaker 1: you can you can break them down from January on
Speaker 1: and sometimes I get caught in that silliness with shooting splits. Look,
Speaker 1: when halibert AND's healthy, they're different team. But even though
Speaker 1: they've got guys that seem like they would hold up
Speaker 1: perimeter defenders, they they've never been a great team defensive
Speaker 1: unit the way that the Cavs. They don't have that ceiling.
Speaker 1: But now eighty two games and you know, playing a
Speaker 1: different team every night, that's done. The playoffs we know
Speaker 1: are a different setup. And boy, card I didn't think
Speaker 1: about it that way, the deferential. You know, I like
Speaker 1: to see a little bit more meanness. And I know
Speaker 1: again that's that's like easy from somebody on the outside,
Speaker 1: like the niceties and even Kenny have to you know,
Speaker 1: talking today, he didn't even want to throw any kind
Speaker 1: of lob, any kind of big criticism or bulletin board
Speaker 1: material about you know them and the way that they play.
Speaker 1: He was even nice.
Speaker 3: He was talking about like that was that's probably the
Speaker 3: angriest I've seen him all season. But he like he
Speaker 3: kept it you know in the lines very much.
Speaker 1: So right, I would like to see a little bit
Speaker 1: more nastiness, and it doesn't have to be Draymond Green,
Speaker 1: you know, I think fans get caught up in that.
Speaker 1: It certainly doesn't have to be that way, but you
Speaker 1: know you can make them you're gonna play a playoff ball.
Speaker 2: You have to play playoff basketball. And like, one of
Speaker 2: the coolest things to me about that Miami the start
Speaker 2: of that Miami series, I was sitting right next to
Speaker 2: my co host right over there, and they started in
Speaker 2: full court press against the heat like that. They did
Speaker 2: not play a possession of full court press all regular season,
Speaker 2: And Kenny's Kenny, that's a tone setting playoff decision of like, hey,
Speaker 2: we're gonna bump you from the first touch of the game.
Speaker 2: When you think it's gonna be easy, it's guess what,
Speaker 2: It's not gonna be easy. And like, I just don't
Speaker 2: think they brought that because they were so concerned about
Speaker 2: getting back into their shell against the against the transition
Speaker 2: of the heat, and you could literally watch them thinking
Speaker 2: they I mentioned it was brain fart city. Like there
Speaker 2: were a lot of possessions where I didn't even feel
Speaker 2: like Indy was pressing that hard. Like, by the way
Speaker 2: everyone talked about how Indy dragged the Cats to their pace.
Speaker 2: They played ninety nine possessions in this game. It was
Speaker 2: a game for both teams. Yeah, it was not it
Speaker 2: was fair.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't know it from the score. You wouldn't know
Speaker 1: it from the score.
Speaker 2: Fast for playoffs, but not fast for a regular season.
Speaker 2: These guys shouldn't be like crazy gassed from this pace.
Speaker 2: But like, even when Indy was going at like seventy
Speaker 2: percent in some semi transition, you saw the Cavs being like,
Speaker 2: can't mess up, can't mess up and transition defense, and
Speaker 2: it's like, just be disciplined, just play the discipline that
Speaker 2: you're used to playing.
Speaker 4: Like, I don't like.
Speaker 2: I just felt like you watched them overthink and then
Speaker 2: a short circuit on so many of those defensive possessions.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just feel like they got away from
Speaker 2: themselves in a way there's like pretty unusual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think they let you know them hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's not listen, you know, do Dora the Cavalier Kiddy's
Speaker 1: not happy either, you know, showing a little bit of feistiness.
Speaker 1: There is a way in the NBA to find that line.
Speaker 1: You don't have to be dirty. I don't think. I
Speaker 1: don't think we as fans, I don't think we might
Speaker 1: mind a little dirty once in a while just to
Speaker 1: let everybody know, like you're not just going to come
Speaker 1: in here and mess with us, and we can talk.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a whole other conversation about whether we
Speaker 1: thought those files, which were certainly files that were not
Speaker 1: called and inexplicably challenged, and I'm still I feel like
Speaker 1: the NBA needs to do a better job of explaining
Speaker 1: what happened there.
Speaker 3: To be clear, I think we can go over that.
Speaker 3: I don't think that they were dirty place. I think
Speaker 3: that they were trying to make the Cavs earn it
Speaker 3: at the line. I think they were hard playoff files
Speaker 3: and the fact that they weren't called was really surprising.
Speaker 3: And the fact that you know, a lot of those
Speaker 3: ended up leading to three pointers on the other end,
Speaker 3: you know, in five on four situations, that's a backbreaker
Speaker 3: in a game that was kind of decided by a
Speaker 3: couple possessions. But I didn't think that they were dirty plays.
Speaker 3: Like for me, I've talked to Carter about this. I'm
Speaker 3: not really proud of it, but I'm a little proud
Speaker 3: of it. I was a dirty player in high school.
Speaker 3: I recognized a dirty play when I see one. I
Speaker 3: don't think that that's what it was.
Speaker 4: I'm surprised, brother, I.
Speaker 3: You know, I went through absolutely all the emotions. I
Speaker 3: wanted my pound of flesh after this game. You know,
Speaker 3: I don't like seeing my guys on the injury report.
Speaker 3: But you can't even retaliate with the hard playoff out
Speaker 3: of your own if you're not running these guys off
Speaker 3: the three point line. I mean, if they're just floating
Speaker 3: around on the outside, you need to get that guy
Speaker 3: driving to the basket if you're going to put a
Speaker 3: little lumber in them.
Speaker 1: A game recognized game justin I didn't know you liked that,
Speaker 1: but you know it's the true ball knower that you are.
Speaker 1: I respect it, and I think any any edge that
Speaker 1: you need to gain. But so it gets interesting, right
Speaker 1: because I'm hearing the Cavs talk after the game, and
Speaker 1: there's no doubt there's two things that Kenny Atkinson talked
Speaker 1: because all the players echoed the sentiments in the postgame
Speaker 1: press conference. The few that did talk, which was pace,
Speaker 1: I did hear that a lot. And I also heard
Speaker 1: toughness and physicality. I mean I heard it to a man,
Speaker 1: every single one. I mean Ty Jerome was out there
Speaker 1: talking about how fast. Indiana was again one thing to
Speaker 1: see it on tape. It's another thing to see a
Speaker 1: team that knows their idea, dentity and knows that's their
Speaker 1: only chance, right Indiana. Whether or not they think they'res
Speaker 1: talented as you, we know they're not. I don't think
Speaker 1: you'd find anybody, even in Indiana that was being fair
Speaker 1: that would that would argue otherwise. But they know who
Speaker 1: they are. They and they and they once made a
Speaker 1: playoff run where they were that and now you know,
Speaker 1: you add you add Mathron who was injured last year,
Speaker 1: you know, into that, and now you've got a guy
Speaker 1: nem Hard who's become mister playoff three point shooter who
Speaker 1: can't do it in the regular season. So there are
Speaker 1: some things that that that confidence Getschen. I'm just telling you,
Speaker 1: I watched, you know, seventy five feet like Max Strus
Speaker 1: got body checked just trying to get back on defense.
Speaker 1: Little things, right, It's little things, and they're not going
Speaker 1: to call that a foul. And I don't even think
Speaker 1: Max Streuce would be arguing for a file there. I
Speaker 1: think it's just that they were going to make sure
Speaker 1: that you felt them droughught And so my question is
Speaker 1: in game two, depending on who's even going to be
Speaker 1: out there, because you don't want to get caught up
Speaker 1: in that too much.
Speaker 4: But are you going to.
Speaker 1: See some some token physicality three minutes in to try
Speaker 1: to set the tone where, hey, if they call us
Speaker 1: for a file, they calls for a file, No big deal.
Speaker 1: You know, even Evan. Evan is the interesting one because
Speaker 1: I didn't think there was a soul out there that
Speaker 1: could neutralize Evan. I just didn't. I just didn't think
Speaker 1: they had any there. A couple of times Evan got
Speaker 1: an offensive rebound one against Myles turn Aroun. I'm like,
Speaker 1: Miles is in good position and he can't get his
Speaker 1: hand up because Evan has has has added that dimension
Speaker 1: and skill and knows how to seal a guy off
Speaker 1: using his bigger, bigger shoulders that seemed like they're ten
Speaker 1: to fifteen pounds bigger in a mass is there that
Speaker 1: wasn't there even maybe a year and a half ago.
Speaker 1: So you know, Evan is a guy too. Can can
Speaker 1: he set the tone? I mean we're in year four here,
Speaker 1: it's you know, there are some guys that do have
Speaker 1: some playoff experience on Indiana, but they're all the you
Speaker 1: know Halliburton doesn't have a ton of playoff experience like
Speaker 1: I think that You're right, Carter, I go back to
Speaker 1: that deferential thing. There's no no, no time for that, now,
Speaker 1: no room for that. You know. The Cavaliers get back
Speaker 1: to that swagger, and I know it's not as not
Speaker 1: as easy when you don't have Darius out. There was
Speaker 1: part of that swagger, but you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think a difference we'll see very early on if that
Speaker 1: is something that they're going to come out and set
Speaker 1: the tone with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they got to play their style.
Speaker 3: You you have to know what your strengths are, what
Speaker 3: your weaknesses are, and play within it right.
Speaker 4: Like, when you know your strengths and weaknesses, you.
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Speaker 3: zoom Ai Companion. The funny thing about the physicality was
Speaker 3: I think we really felt it on the perimeter, right
Speaker 3: like Indie with steing.
Speaker 2: Which is how Andy does things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were staying home to you know, a crazy extent.
Speaker 3: They were forcing the Calves. Not only were the Calves
Speaker 3: being differential on the defensive side and you know kind
Speaker 3: of allowing Indy to have that freedom of movement on
Speaker 3: the offensive end, Cleveland, they were giving them a red
Speaker 3: carpet to the pay. Like typically when you talk about
Speaker 3: physicality the types of things, you look at our second
Speaker 3: chance points, offensive rebounds, points in the paints.
Speaker 4: The Calves had.
Speaker 3: A seventy to thirty eight edge in points in the paint,
Speaker 3: twenty one to four edge on second chance points, and
Speaker 3: a thirteen to seven edge in sec on the offensive glass.
Speaker 3: Like typically those are those identifiers. But what Indy was
Speaker 3: really doing was saying, yeah, like you can attack the basket,
Speaker 3: but we're we're going to stay home. We're going to
Speaker 3: make you feel uncomfortable from three.
Speaker 4: And this is a game.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I reject the notion that this was a three
Speaker 3: point variance game.
Speaker 4: That's part of the equation.
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, Indies shot incredibly well, but when
Speaker 3: you look at the wide open threes, Indy was thirteen
Speaker 3: of twenty five on wide open three point attempts, the
Speaker 3: Caves were three of eleven. When you're talking about they
Speaker 3: got over twice as many wide open looks. I'm someone
Speaker 3: that cares about process over results. You know, a little
Speaker 3: bit of variance here and there. Yeah, the score was close,
Speaker 3: but the reason the score was close had to do
Speaker 3: with us winning the possession battle more than anything else
Speaker 3: like that. And if we're shorthanded, they're going to have
Speaker 3: to do that again, Like we're going to need to
Speaker 3: kill them on the glass, We're going to have to
Speaker 3: kill them on the interior. But when I'm looking at
Speaker 3: those type of three point numbers, we didn't get the
Speaker 3: type of looks that make me say, hey, we should
Speaker 3: have had a good quality shooting game. Because for the season,
Speaker 3: the Calves average twenty five wide open looks from three
Speaker 3: against Indiana in Game one only eleven.
Speaker 2: I've got a real zag for you, fellas about the
Speaker 2: health of the Calves offense. I think it's kind of bad.
Speaker 2: They only had seven turnovers against that level of ball
Speaker 2: pressure Like that tells me that the passing in the
Speaker 2: movement was not where it needs to be. You know,
Speaker 2: Kaitlin Cooper, who covers the Pacers, who does an amazing job.
Speaker 2: And I'm paraphrasing because I didn't have the stat pulled up,
Speaker 2: said that like per one hundred possessions, the Calves averaged
Speaker 2: like two hundred and thirty passes in this game. Thirtieth
Speaker 2: place was two seventy average in the league, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think in general, there was just so much.
Speaker 2: I thought they worked so hard, ate up so much
Speaker 2: shot clock, chasing Halliburton on switches, and Haliburton in this game,
Speaker 2: at least was not Tyler Hero, like he held up
Speaker 2: way better on switches. And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: it is all the work that someone like Andrew Nimhard
Speaker 2: was doing before the switch, where you know, it's so
Speaker 2: different attacking Tyler Hero with eighteen seconds left on the
Speaker 2: shot clock than it is attacking Tyre's Halliburton with eight
Speaker 2: with a perfectly set shell defense behind him, you know.
Speaker 2: And I just felt like they were you know, I
Speaker 2: don't think this Cavs team is at its best mismatch hunting,
Speaker 2: and that is part of the playoffs. I understand that.
Speaker 1: We don't want to be the Boston Celtics. Come on,
Speaker 1: we want to play ethical playoff basketball.
Speaker 2: You're damn right, we do, Tony, And like, I think
Speaker 2: I just think they got away from you know, and
Speaker 2: he mentioned it that their offense let them down, so
Speaker 2: I think he understands that. But like that's why I
Speaker 2: called out that struse you know, ball flow side, pick
Speaker 2: and roll al U because of like, you know, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: there you are, guys, Like that's what you are. Like,
Speaker 2: I think it is so such such a negative indicator
Speaker 2: for this team on a night where you're not generating
Speaker 2: consistently clean looks that Tye and Donovan combined for fifty
Speaker 2: field goal attempts. The ty Jerome on a night where
Speaker 2: he does not have it he's having, he had a
Speaker 2: really you know, I would say one of his choppier,
Speaker 2: high volume nights he's had in terms of just getting
Speaker 2: stonewalled on some possessions, him having as many shot attempts
Speaker 2: as Mobley and Allen combined, when when the Cavs worked
Speaker 2: hard to get those guys to the ball just on
Speaker 2: a normal pick and roll, you know, not even pick
Speaker 2: and rolls where they were getting huge advantages. But because
Speaker 2: Andy's interior defense isn't that strong and because they weren't
Speaker 2: sending help, they got clean looks every single time. Just
Speaker 2: felt like the prior alities were a little out of
Speaker 2: whack in this game.
Speaker 1: The antidote to a lot of what you said plagued
Speaker 1: them in that opening game, unfortunately, was in street clothes.
Speaker 1: You know, I just think Darius Garland changes so much
Speaker 1: of that. The assist totals, I mean right there, the
Speaker 1: way that you have to defend, especially this year, Darius,
Speaker 1: and what that opens up. And you know, we talk
Speaker 1: about targeting guys, whether it's you know, mismatches or on
Speaker 1: the other end, like getting guys and big men out
Speaker 1: of sort, getting them tilted and getting the whole you know,
Speaker 1: the whole side of the basketball floor in your favor
Speaker 1: with numbers. I mean, Darius does all of that. He's
Speaker 1: he's been clinical, he's been a technician at doing that
Speaker 1: stuff this year, and you know, not having him, you know,
Speaker 1: the reality is, no matter how many silly conversations some
Speaker 1: people wanted to get going about Ty Jerome versus Darius Carlin,
Speaker 1: when they're not competing with each other, they're quite literally
Speaker 1: the perfect the perfect one to the other handem in
Speaker 1: the league, when there was almost zero drop off when
Speaker 1: either Donovan or Darius would go to the bench and
Speaker 1: you know ty Jerome was leading that unit. You see
Speaker 1: just how different they play. It doesn't mean bad. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean ty Jerome what he does is bad. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: He's been sensational all year. It's just different. And you know,
Speaker 1: I hope we don't have to see a lot of
Speaker 1: different just for the sake of having to deal with,
Speaker 1: you know, this injury to Darius, because the fact is,
Speaker 1: you're just a different team when you go from having
Speaker 1: a guy who played at an all NBA level for
Speaker 1: most of the season who not on the floor, Like
Speaker 1: that's I don't care what you say. That is a huge,
Speaker 1: huge difference. You know, you can ask you know, the
Speaker 1: Golden State Warriors when guys start dropping like flies. Next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, Kawhi Leonard has you know, a ring in Toronto,
Speaker 1: so and basketball Siakam certainly knows all about that. So
Speaker 1: h that's that's That's all I'm saying. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a big discussion online and sometimes I think,
Speaker 1: you know, Justin and Carter, you guys are just eternally online.
Speaker 1: So you're going to allow these Pacer fans to get
Speaker 1: to you don't let don't let you know Pat McAfee
Speaker 1: and Caitlyn Clark get to you or Papa Halliburton.
Speaker 4: Oh don't.
Speaker 3: I've already picked a beef with some indie beat writer
Speaker 3: that I've never heard of before today, but he is
Speaker 3: now enemy number one. You're right, I think obviously Garland
Speaker 3: would help a lot. I think it's something we've seen
Speaker 3: over the last three years. Right in Mitchell's first year
Speaker 3: with Darius, when Garland was on the court, they had
Speaker 3: a top five offense.
Speaker 4: When he was off the court, they had the twenty ninth.
Speaker 3: Last year when Darius was not himself, the Cavs were
Speaker 3: not able to have a top ten offense. This year,
Speaker 3: the Cavs have a historic offense with Darius on the court.
Speaker 3: Best offense in NDIA history when he's on the court,
Speaker 3: and thirteenth when he's off. So you know that floor
Speaker 3: has raised. But when you talk about a team as
Speaker 3: good offensively as Indiana, hey, if Darius isn't in the game,
Speaker 3: you're going to need to get it done a little
Speaker 3: bit more on the defensive end. And you know, I
Speaker 3: think what Ty did in Game one isn't too dissimilar
Speaker 3: to some of what he did against Miami, Like, the
Speaker 3: shot quality has been tough for Tie all season long.
Speaker 3: That's a guy that takes and makes a lot of
Speaker 3: tough shots. They just needed something a little bit different.
Speaker 3: And you know, Donovan and Tie combined for fifty field
Speaker 3: goal attempts, they only generated fourteen potential assists, and they
Speaker 3: got twelve assists on those fourteen, so it's not like
Speaker 3: they were creating assist opportunities for other guys, and you know, hey,
Speaker 3: they're missing their shots, so I'm just going to do
Speaker 3: it myself. They almost shot one hundred percent off of
Speaker 3: those guys passing. But when you have a ratio of
Speaker 3: you know, fifty field goal attempts to fourteen assist opportunities
Speaker 3: created between the two guards, yeah, you're going to feel like, hey,
Speaker 3: despite the fact that we're getting into the pain at Will,
Speaker 3: kind of felt like we got away from Evan Mobley
Speaker 3: as the game progressed. It kind of felt like we
Speaker 3: weren't capitalizing on Jared Allen rolling to the basket. And
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things that Darius does.
Speaker 3: We all know that Donovan's the best player on this team.
Speaker 3: He's someone that can go to a place from a
Speaker 3: scoring perspective that nobody else can. But Darius is kind
Speaker 3: of the still the primary driver of the offense overall,
Speaker 3: and he does such a good job of understanding who
Speaker 3: needs the ball when and keeping the Calves within their
Speaker 3: identity offensively.
Speaker 2: Whenever, whenever Steve Jones of The Dunker Spot talks about
Speaker 2: this Calves team, the nicest thing he says, every time
Speaker 2: he posts a clip of the Calves getting other teams
Speaker 2: in the blender, he always says, the Calves just keep
Speaker 2: making you guard, you know, like here's the first action
Speaker 2: that you snuffed out. Here's the second action, here's the
Speaker 2: third action, here's the fourth action, and you finally, you know,
Speaker 2: the damn breaks and you and the Calves got a
Speaker 2: wide open look. Or in the you know, a season
Speaker 2: like this, someone hit a crazy shot, you know, and
Speaker 2: and you know all that effort was for nothing, and
Speaker 2: you need both of those pieces of the puzzle in
Speaker 2: order to you know, be a championship team, like you're
Speaker 2: not always you know, no team, the greatest teams in
Speaker 2: NBIA history have to hit hard shots the score. But
Speaker 2: like you can't build the whole plane out of that material.
Speaker 2: I did not know about that fourteen potential assists that
Speaker 2: I just I think that's a killer.
Speaker 1: It's a rhythm game, especially early in a series. So
Speaker 1: I always draw a stark contrast when I talk to
Speaker 1: people about why the NBA playoffs are different. The first
Speaker 1: game of the series, when we had Lebron and had
Speaker 1: the luxury of having Lebron feel his way out process
Speaker 1: over the span of four to seven games. You know
Speaker 1: how to combat every single thing, and he would take
Speaker 1: it all into consideration over the course of the first
Speaker 1: forty eight minutes or so, and sometimes in the game
Speaker 1: two and then you would see it like, oh, I
Speaker 1: got this, I got this, and now all of my
Speaker 1: teammates are going to beneficiaries of how it's built on itself.
Speaker 1: You know everything that I've been processing, okay, but when
Speaker 1: you get to game seven, as you've seen the game
Speaker 1: seven so far, you almost have to throw exits and
Speaker 1: o's out the window. It's like, who's got legs left,
Speaker 1: who can elevate over a defender, who can get by
Speaker 1: a defender, and who can just put the ball in
Speaker 1: the basket. By that time, you know, we've seen everything,
Speaker 1: they've seen everything, Like we just got to go get
Speaker 1: baskets because there aren't gonna be a lot of them,
Speaker 1: and this is this is different. This was the first
Speaker 1: game I like to see guys in rhythm. And I
Speaker 1: know that the stat was circulating about Donovan Mitchell in
Speaker 1: game ones the thirty points. Obviously, we know he's capable
Speaker 1: of hitting every single three he took in that game,
Speaker 1: with maybe the exception of the one that was blocked
Speaker 1: right and they blocked a few on the perimeter with
Speaker 1: some of that length, or guys chasing it, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes got a little lucky, or the Cabs maybe needed
Speaker 1: one more pass. Though we know Donovy can make all those.
Speaker 1: He can step into those at any time. What's so
Speaker 1: gifted about his footwork is that he can actually jump
Speaker 1: into a jump into a three point shot off the
Speaker 1: dribble left foot. He can do it right foot. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's Carmelo Anthony stuff, That's Kobe Bryant's stuff. There's not
Speaker 1: a ton of guys that are skilled at him and
Speaker 1: doing it. So I'm never crushing him on the shot
Speaker 1: selection because if he takes eleven threes, I'm guessing he's
Speaker 1: gonna add more than one. You know, the rest of
Speaker 1: his career. I don't think he ever has game like that.
Speaker 1: But the issue is when he's shooting those and just
Speaker 1: stepping into him with eighteen on a shot clock or
Speaker 1: fifteen on a shot clock, then you're not really making
Speaker 1: Indiana have to buckle, think twice, tilt their defense, start
Speaker 1: to get them scrambling in the way that they forced
Speaker 1: you to get scrambling. And I would say the same
Speaker 1: thing about Tye. It's not that I thought Tye was
Speaker 1: taking any more difficult to shots. In fact, I think
Speaker 1: they got it in their heads like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: these guys, these guys cannot stop us from getting to
Speaker 1: the hoop. But what you're also doing if you have
Speaker 1: two players with the lion's share of those forays to
Speaker 1: the basket, and obviously ty didn't shoot a ton of threes,
Speaker 1: but then you've got Donovan, you know, settling for a
Speaker 1: lot of those threes. Then other guys are just not
Speaker 1: going to be in rhythm. Even when you don't shoot,
Speaker 1: it's touching that basketball, it's being able to pound that
Speaker 1: ball a couple times, throw to the opposite corner, and
Speaker 1: now you've got everybody circulating on defense and not knowing
Speaker 1: where that shot is coming. And then you know, just
Speaker 1: quite quite honestly just wearing them out, and instead Donovan
Speaker 1: Mitchell like, I don't think people realize. Yeah, he played
Speaker 1: thirty four minutes. And I went back and looked, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, that's interesting. I thought, in a close game,
Speaker 1: he's gonna play more minutes. And in a non blowout situation.
Speaker 1: You have to go back to his rookie year to
Speaker 1: find a playoff game where he played thirty four minutes
Speaker 1: or less. And yet I watched him and I saw
Speaker 1: his body language, and I'm like, man, this guy is
Speaker 1: worn out because it is exhausting having to get out
Speaker 1: there in the perimeter, make your first point of attack move,
Speaker 1: get by one guy, and now oh I've got a
Speaker 1: euro step, I've got a plant off my right foot
Speaker 1: and toggle and jump to the left side, and now
Speaker 1: I got to think about my finishing package, even though
Speaker 1: they don't have a ton of shop blocking, and yeah,
Speaker 1: he would finish. That's exhausting, guys. Yeah, and he did
Speaker 1: that on like from especially that third quarter. He was
Speaker 1: on it and he was taking the ball from three
Speaker 1: quarters core all the way. In doing that, that is
Speaker 1: going to wear you down. So box Score said, thirty
Speaker 1: four minutes felt like a forty one minute game against
Speaker 1: the Orlando Magic.
Speaker 3: And not only what it felt like, and not only that,
Speaker 3: our buddy Spencer Davies just tweeted out a video where
Speaker 3: he's talking about, you know, the Calve's injury situation, and
Speaker 3: we know that Donoo is dealing with the ankle coming
Speaker 3: into the playoffs, that is still apparently something that's bothering him.
Speaker 3: He's apparently also dealing with some calf soreness as well.
Speaker 3: You know, if we're playing the injury game, if we're
Speaker 3: looking ahead to game two here, because my mentality really is,
Speaker 3: you know, the Calves have found ways to win games
Speaker 3: shorthanded all season long. We've seen them be competitive insanely
Speaker 3: shorthanded against the Indiana Basers even right, so if they
Speaker 3: can find a way to go out and win Game two,
Speaker 3: if they are in fact shorthanded, then you have multiple
Speaker 3: days off until you know, Friday, then you just have to,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of compartmentalize in your mind, get us
Speaker 3: split in Indiana, you have home court back. Hopefully we
Speaker 3: get healthier as this series progresses. If we're going into
Speaker 3: game two, and Kenny said that Mobley and Hunter are
Speaker 3: both doubtful in his eyes, so we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 3: Obviously DeAndre Hunter with a dislocated thumb on his shooting hand,
Speaker 3: Evan Mobley dealing with an ankle injury. If Garland, Mobley
Speaker 3: and Hunter are all out, I honestly think you have
Speaker 3: to trust the depth that you have. You have to
Speaker 3: trust the guys that have stepped up this season and
Speaker 3: start tied Jerome alongside Donovan just to get that supplemental
Speaker 3: play making next to him to us to lessen the
Speaker 3: burden a little bit more. And then you you trust,
Speaker 3: you trust a Craig Porter Junior to come into the game.
Speaker 3: I think you need to have multiple ball handlers out there.
Speaker 3: I think you need to find ways to make Donovan's
Speaker 3: life a little bit easier rather than asking him to
Speaker 3: be that primary initiator when he who's.
Speaker 4: Doing my starters?
Speaker 2: Who are your five starters?
Speaker 3: I think I would start Jerome, Chill, Struce, Wade and Allen.
Speaker 2: That sounds right to me. I like that take. I
Speaker 2: wasn't thinking, I don't think that will happen. I think
Speaker 2: Sam will continue starting, which I thought Sam had a
Speaker 2: really rough defensive game.
Speaker 3: In games that honestly, that game was the difference between
Speaker 3: Miami who was floating on the perimeter, and Sam doing
Speaker 3: a really good job navigating screen stained you know, in
Speaker 3: front of his man and guarding guys that actually have
Speaker 3: juice off the dribble, right, because all those guys have
Speaker 3: jewe like from a point of a tax standpoint, you know,
Speaker 3: that's that's where that's where Sam and honestly even Tye
Speaker 3: struggled to stay in.
Speaker 4: Front of the guys got the worst there by the matrix.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Tye is going to you know, he's going to
Speaker 3: poke away, he's going to get steals. But he and
Speaker 3: Sam are probably the weakest point of attack defenders. Honestly,
Speaker 3: that's a strength of Darius is he's going to get
Speaker 3: targeted because we switched so much and there's length, But
Speaker 3: he does a good job staying in front of his man.
Speaker 3: But you know, with the with the toe situation, which
Speaker 3: Brian Wyndhor describe as turf toe on today's podcast, I
Speaker 3: don't know if that's going to be the case, right, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's at seventy percent, if he's
Speaker 3: even going to be his normal self at the point
Speaker 3: of attack.
Speaker 2: But cancer so going with if it is tie, you know,
Speaker 2: I think the thing about starting Dean, and I think
Speaker 2: you kind of have to start Dean because I think
Speaker 2: Pascal is, like, you know, for being a generally normal
Speaker 2: sized power forward, the best post scorer in the league.
Speaker 2: Like I get why you know Jokich is, you know,
Speaker 2: he's just got such an outrageous size advantage. But just
Speaker 2: like in terms of the post bag, I think Siakam
Speaker 2: can go up against anyone. I think it just makes
Speaker 2: the most sense. However, if Evan doesn't play, I you're
Speaker 2: going to have to play a lot of minutes small.
Speaker 2: I don't think they want to dust Tristan off in
Speaker 2: the series, though.
Speaker 4: I might have to.
Speaker 2: It might be an okay Tristan series, just because Indy
Speaker 2: is not on the boards on the ball and and
Speaker 2: you know, a little extra physicality and screen setting can
Speaker 2: go a long way, because I don't think there were
Speaker 2: a lot of great screen set in Game one. Uh,
Speaker 2: But I do like your idea here justin I actually
Speaker 2: think it is the right call just to say, hey,
Speaker 2: let's play Cavaliers basketball, and Cavaliers basketball means two, three,
Speaker 2: four guys who can initiate offense on any given play.
Speaker 2: And I think there is the the other thing that
Speaker 2: is not maybe being accounted if you just you know,
Speaker 2: roll Sam and Dean out is you're not just losing
Speaker 2: the playmaking at the point guard position with no Darius,
Speaker 2: You're losing evan ability to run and to initiate in
Speaker 2: the front court. And you just kind of need to
Speaker 2: find it because Dean is just knocking. That's not going
Speaker 2: to be who Dean.
Speaker 1: Is a very very interesting guys. Obviously, let's uh, let's
Speaker 1: get wild, right, let's get crazy. Uh. If that is
Speaker 1: the case, it's worst case scenario. I think you're gonna
Speaker 1: see a lot more zone. You know. I know it's
Speaker 1: tough to really extrapolate anything from the regular season matchups
Speaker 1: against Indy, but I think they ran like sixty six
Speaker 1: zone possessions and it was like point eight points per possession,
Speaker 1: which would be like dead last offense in the NBA.
Speaker 3: He struggles for zone. That was the last thing that
Speaker 3: Pacers previous. That that is something that you know they
Speaker 3: tuggled with.
Speaker 1: And look, I thought, you know the zone, you know
Speaker 1: they if you notice it looked to me to the
Speaker 1: naked eye, and I asked Booby Gibson, who was sitting
Speaker 1: next to me while we were watching I'm like, did
Speaker 1: they just did they just go from just standard two
Speaker 1: three to matchup? And he's like, man, I can't tell,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I couldn't tell either. The way that
Speaker 1: I and I listen. I'm classically trained at the two
Speaker 1: three matchup zone for my years at Syracuse, so I'm
Speaker 1: always looking for certain indicators, you know, on the wing,
Speaker 1: and you know you could play it. Got Beheim had
Speaker 1: like eight different ways to play their matchup zone depending
Speaker 1: on the day, so he was always really hard to scout.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't think the zone is, but I do think
Speaker 1: it's it's a tool. Is it an additive? Might be
Speaker 1: just by necessity in this series, and you know, look,
Speaker 1: what do you give up in his own You give
Speaker 1: up some rebounding. But I still the way the Cavs
Speaker 1: can chase basketballs and they just seem to always have
Speaker 1: an eye for it, and I thought they did in
Speaker 1: the last game. Maybe it's worth using a little more
Speaker 1: than you'd like to typically and just write a mess
Speaker 1: with Haliburton because there's no doubt he got into that rhythm.
Speaker 1: The possessions against Jared Allen. I've seen people suggest that
Speaker 1: it's just not a Jared Allen series. Well, guess what,
Speaker 1: we don't have the luxury right now. Yeah, it's an
Speaker 1: everybody series. Who's available. I mean, you just gotta play
Speaker 1: guys and still I mean Jared Allen phill had Haliburton
Speaker 1: out twenty eight feet in the basket taking some shots
Speaker 1: that are not easy.
Speaker 3: With those, Yeah, you have to live with those, right
Speaker 3: and if they kill you with the shot making, I
Speaker 3: think you do it. But like I think we got
Speaker 3: as Carter said, we got away from our identity.
Speaker 4: We were over helping a whole lot.
Speaker 3: We were scrambling defensively, and I think this is just
Speaker 3: going to have to be a series where you stay
Speaker 3: home a little bit more. We have a lot of
Speaker 3: guys that are very good at screen navigation. Zach Low mentioned.
Speaker 3: You know that the cast face thirty six ball screens,
Speaker 3: and you know the rate at which they switched those
Speaker 3: ball screens was the third highest of any team this season.
Speaker 3: I think you have to trust the guys a little
Speaker 3: bit more, particularly, like you know, I was sitting in
Speaker 3: that game and I was like, I don't know if
Speaker 3: this is a series for Sam Merrill. I don't know
Speaker 3: if this is a series for Isaac o'corral, Like I thought,
Speaker 3: o'corral's first shift started off really poorly, and I thought
Speaker 3: he was actually very good on Halliburn. Then I thought
Speaker 3: his second half was very difficult. I was like, you
Speaker 3: know what, this is probably just non o'coro series. Guess
Speaker 3: what now it's going to have to be if these
Speaker 3: guys are out of the lineup, Sam's going to need
Speaker 3: to play, Ocoro is going need to play. You're probably
Speaker 3: going to need to play. Craig Porter Jr. And who
Speaker 3: knows Javonte Green is going to play, And you might
Speaker 3: you might even want to dust off a Jalen Tyson,
Speaker 3: someone who's going to buy you some extra possessions, place
Speaker 3: with some physicality and has a thirty ball against Indiana.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe he's got a little bit of confidence here,
Speaker 3: he's shot here, he shot great in garbage time against Miami.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, what Miami was great garbage time pregame, post
Speaker 1: game at Live after the you know Club eleven, I
Speaker 1: mean they I think it was all time to score.
Speaker 1: I think, listen, it's all on the table. And you
Speaker 1: know these are these are tough. These are tough because
Speaker 1: you know, you start going through these scenarios. But the
Speaker 1: one thing I know is, like I just the shooting
Speaker 1: variance thing. You started out justin saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: you're a little agitated. People are just gonna chalk a
Speaker 1: game up to shooting variants. Then what are we even
Speaker 1: doing here? Why even try to break down the game?
Speaker 1: There's a cause and effect of all of these things.
Speaker 1: I do think, you know, the guys that are gonna
Speaker 1: play for the Cavs, they're gonna be some desperation, and
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a little harder for for
Speaker 1: Indiana this time I'm around. And when a team makes
Speaker 1: it at the rate that they just made it, sometimes
Speaker 1: they can be a little shell shot when some of
Speaker 1: those are in and out or or or don't fall,
Speaker 1: and that that starts to break up the rhythms.
Speaker 2: So I happened. We watched this happen to the Cavs
Speaker 2: in Game two against the Heat. They go nuts in
Speaker 2: that second quarter and then they stop going nuts, and
Speaker 2: the like how do.
Speaker 4: We play basketball? Again?
Speaker 2: Like it does just break your brain a little bit
Speaker 2: when you're that hot. Like I will say though, like
Speaker 2: this is an indie team that can shoot, and and
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear any one site that Andrew
Speaker 2: Nimhart is a twenty nine percent three point shooter to me,
Speaker 2: because I tweeted this out. He shot sixty fifty five,
Speaker 2: fifty four and forty nine percent from three in the
Speaker 2: four playoff series he has played so far. And I'm
Speaker 2: gonna quote Steve Jones again and say that you'll live
Speaker 2: with it until you can't live with it, And like,
Speaker 2: drove men, this is about eighty two game sample you have,
Speaker 2: Like you're gonna have to run these guys off the line.
Speaker 2: You're going to need to have discipline, you know, if
Speaker 2: you are gonna switch everything, well, you also can't be
Speaker 2: in constant rotation like you like the switches to is
Speaker 2: designed to not give that stuff up. So like that
Speaker 2: is like the thing that makes me the most encouraged
Speaker 2: coming out of that game one is like all the
Speaker 2: stuff from like you're just not playing well and like
Speaker 2: the the injuries are very very scary because now you're
Speaker 2: just gonna depend on guys to you know, your ceilings
Speaker 2: a lot lower without an Evan, without a DeAndre, without
Speaker 2: a Darius. But like we know, this team's floor can
Speaker 2: be very very high even when they're playing the eighth, ninth,
Speaker 2: and tenth guys in their rotation. It used to drive
Speaker 2: me nuts when when Daryl Morey would sit there and
Speaker 2: he'd say, well, you know, it's a shooting variants like,
Speaker 2: you know, small samples. Sorry, a playoff series is a
Speaker 2: small sample, right, Like and I think Carter and I
Speaker 2: will point out at times when we think, hey, this
Speaker 2: is the shooting variance game, like that first loss against
Speaker 2: Atlanta where the Cavs I think had like thirty four
Speaker 2: wide open threes and couldn't hit any of them. Atlanta
Speaker 2: had way fewer and they hit all of theirs. That'll
Speaker 2: point to.
Speaker 3: But when you're talking about eleven wide open threes versus
Speaker 3: twenty five, there was something wrong with your process. If
Speaker 3: you brought that to the middle where it's seventeen and
Speaker 3: seventeen and you know, hey, they just shot a little
Speaker 3: bit better on theirs, that's a different story. But you're right,
Speaker 3: Carter about Nemhar, to think, you know, we're so familiar
Speaker 3: with the context of our own team, we missed the
Speaker 3: fact that Andrew Nemhar missed a bunch of time this
Speaker 3: season and it took him a little time to defind
Speaker 3: his rhythm previous years. You know, he's been a thirty
Speaker 3: five thirty six point three point shooter, like he's not
Speaker 3: a twenty nine percent shooter. You're you're going to have
Speaker 3: to respect this guy here, and you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: respect all of these shooters. You're going to have to
Speaker 3: make them feel uncomfortable because once teams find a rhythm,
Speaker 3: if you're giving them rhythm jumpers and you're not playing
Speaker 3: defense before the shot in the first half, they're going
Speaker 3: to be in a groove and it's going to be
Speaker 3: a whole lot harder to turn that fast off when
Speaker 3: you start contesting those shots in the second half.
Speaker 1: And by the way, guys, speaking to the whole variance
Speaker 1: thing is it's a you know it when you see it.
Speaker 1: I've seen enough James Harden Game seven and big playoff
Speaker 1: moments to know when a sampling is now significant and
Speaker 1: is now no longer a noisy sample. So I'm with
Speaker 1: you there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see who the Cavs
Speaker 3: have available, who Kenny goes to. You know, he's already
Speaker 3: earned that Coach of the Year, he might have to
Speaker 3: earn it a second time over Lama. Before we get
Speaker 3: you out of here, is there anything that we haven't
Speaker 3: touched on that you want to mention before we wrap
Speaker 3: this thing up?
Speaker 1: That Max Trews can play my dodgeball team anytime. What
Speaker 1: a save? What to save? The crowd? I'll tell you
Speaker 1: the crowd and everybody knows what I've said about Max
Speaker 1: Strus that was around me watching the game, the amount
Speaker 1: of see that, did you see that? Did you see that?
Speaker 1: And he didn't even shoot well, but it was like this,
Speaker 1: this is the effort you need. And I did say
Speaker 1: on our postgame show afterwards, like, man, if they had
Speaker 1: eleven Max Struses in terms of effort from the moment
Speaker 1: the game started, probably wouldn't have been, you know, a
Speaker 1: close game down to the wire. I think the calves
Speaker 1: would have been okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt, Max, you know, we talked about it before.
Speaker 3: I think the effort is almost always there. I think
Speaker 3: he's someone that you know, holds himself and everyone else accountable.
Speaker 3: So we're going to need a big Max game if
Speaker 3: those guys are out, We're going to need a lot
Speaker 3: from Max. We're going to need a maybe a shooting
Speaker 3: variance game of our own to tie this up to
Speaker 3: one to one. And you do that it's a new series. Hey,
Speaker 3: I picked the Calves to win in five. I believe
Speaker 3: they can win four out of five games. I don't
Speaker 3: think it's over if they go down oh two. You
Speaker 3: just don't want to be in a situation where you
Speaker 3: have to win, you know, multiple games like that in Indiana.
Speaker 3: You want to make life a little easier for yourselves.
Speaker 3: You want to take that pressure off, and you don't
Speaker 3: want to be susceptible to you know, a potential shooting
Speaker 3: variance game if you outplay them down the road. So big,
Speaker 3: big thanks for you taking the time to come on
Speaker 3: the podcast again, everybody. You can check out lineas coverage
Speaker 3: fore and after Cavs games at Rock Entertainment Sports Network,
Speaker 3: simulcast on my Cleveland forty three and fan Duel Sports Network.
Speaker 3: Big thanks to every big thanks to you, Tony, Thank
Speaker 3: you so much for coming on. Always enjoy talking to you.
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