1 00:00:06,790 --> 00:00:10,690 Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host, 2 00:00:10,869 --> 00:00:11,750 Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan. 3 00:00:14,710 --> 00:00:17,810 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller. 4 00:00:18,250 --> 00:00:23,380 Speaker 2: In July 1991, 34-year-old Cindy Roth drowned during what was 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: supposed to be a family outing on Washington's Lake Sammamish. 6 00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: Her husband, Randy Roth, said it was a tragic accident. 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: But investigators soon discovered some extraordinary details. Randy stood to 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:43,580 Speaker 2: collect $ 385, 000 in life insurance. His account of Cindy's drowning 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,740 Speaker 2: didn't add up, and 10 years earlier, another one of 10 00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:50,460 Speaker 2: his wives had fallen 300 feet to her death while 11 00:00:50,580 --> 00:00:54,660 Speaker 2: alone with him. Randy Roth was ultimately convicted of Cindy's 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,050 Speaker 2: murder and sentenced to 50 years in prison. His story 13 00:00:59,090 --> 00:01:02,190 Speaker 2: became the centerpiece of the Lifetime movie, A Rose for 14 00:01:02,230 --> 00:01:06,350 Speaker 2: Her Grave, The Randy Roth Story. Today, I am joined 15 00:01:06,410 --> 00:01:11,450 Speaker 2: by Colin Egglesfield, who plays Randy Roth. Hi, Colin. Welcome 16 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:13,850 Speaker 2: to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for talking with 17 00:01:13,890 --> 00:01:14,410 Speaker 2: me today. 18 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:17,370 Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here, even though I don't like 19 00:01:17,510 --> 00:01:22,230 Speaker 1: to talk about killing. It's fun to sometimes play those 20 00:01:22,290 --> 00:01:25,170 Speaker 1: kinds of characters on TV and in movies, so thanks. 21 00:01:25,030 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: For having me. Yep, yep. This is one of these, 22 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,819 Speaker 2: pretty much everything that we discuss on here is disturbing 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:39,070 Speaker 2: to some lesser and greater degrees. And this in particular, 24 00:01:39,090 --> 00:01:43,230 Speaker 2: we're going to get into all of it. But first 25 00:01:43,250 --> 00:01:46,709 Speaker 2: of all, did you know anything about Randy Roth before 26 00:01:46,730 --> 00:01:47,610 Speaker 2: you read the script? 27 00:01:47,860 --> 00:01:50,940 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't. And the more I started reading 28 00:01:50,980 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: about him, the more disturbed I got just realizing that 29 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: there's real people out there that could be this despicable 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,030 Speaker 1: and It takes a lot for me to call someone evil, 31 00:02:03,130 --> 00:02:05,970 Speaker 1: but I think there's some people in this world that 32 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,060 Speaker 1: unfortunately just don't have an empathetic bone in their body. 33 00:02:10,419 --> 00:02:15,419 Speaker 1: And they just see the world as an opportunistic way 34 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,060 Speaker 1: for them to get what they want. And I mean, 35 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,340 Speaker 1: after killing your second wife and then buying a yellow Corvette, 36 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's bizarre. The psychological makeup of this man, 37 00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:31,170 Speaker 1: it's incomprehensible. Right. 38 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:35,510 Speaker 2: Did you learn anything about his upbringing? I know that 39 00:02:35,530 --> 00:02:39,530 Speaker 2: you've talked about struggling to understand how you can do 40 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:41,889 Speaker 2: these things and how someone can have such a lack 41 00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:46,260 Speaker 2: of empathy. But did you learn anything about his upbringing? 42 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: Because I'm always so interested in where someone comes from 43 00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:53,460 Speaker 2: and how we get to where we are. And sometimes 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: some serial killers have very similar kind of upbringings and maladies. 45 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: And some don't. Sometimes everything was just great and they 46 00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:08,250 Speaker 2: just turned out this way. Did you learn anything about 47 00:03:08,290 --> 00:03:08,770 Speaker 2: his past? 48 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:14,470 Speaker 1: From what I remember, he didn't have the most loving 49 00:03:15,070 --> 00:03:20,110 Speaker 1: household growing up. And I think some people may say, oh, 50 00:03:20,130 --> 00:03:23,790 Speaker 1: what was me? Your mom and dad didn't give you 51 00:03:23,810 --> 00:03:25,910 Speaker 1: a hug and say, I love you. But I think 52 00:03:25,950 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: it goes deeper than that where... From what I remember, 53 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:37,100 Speaker 1: he was made to just do these weird things to 54 00:03:37,660 --> 00:03:42,150 Speaker 1: gain his parents' approval. Did you do much research about him? 55 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,530 Speaker 1: Do you remember his upbringing? 56 00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:49,910 Speaker 2: All of that really tracks with his behavior towards not 57 00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:53,250 Speaker 2: only his wives in your movie, in the movie, but 58 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:57,310 Speaker 2: also to the children, the way he manipulates the daughter 59 00:03:57,490 --> 00:04:00,180 Speaker 2: of the friend, which You know, we all have things 60 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,660 Speaker 2: that kind of like push the button for us. And 61 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,940 Speaker 2: for me, I have a 14-year-old daughter, so I think 62 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,730 Speaker 2: very much about these sorts of influences. 63 00:04:08,350 --> 00:04:11,869 Speaker 1: Yeah. The grooming was just disgusting, you know? 64 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:12,150 Speaker 2: Yeah. 65 00:04:13,010 --> 00:04:18,190 Speaker 1: For him, I think he saw himself, you know, one 66 00:04:18,210 --> 00:04:20,289 Speaker 1: of my acting teachers from the very get-go, she said, 67 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:24,250 Speaker 1: never judge any character that you're playing. Because if you 68 00:04:24,270 --> 00:04:28,330 Speaker 1: judge your character as evil or bad, then you're going 69 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: to play it almost like a caricature of who this 70 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,900 Speaker 1: person really is. So you've got to approach it from everyone. 71 00:04:36,779 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Everyone is motivated by something. And what I tried to 72 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: do is find the thing for Randy that made him 73 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,580 Speaker 1: think he, what he was doing was, was positive. And 74 00:04:50,050 --> 00:04:55,050 Speaker 1: in my mind, he was protecting this young girl and, um, 75 00:04:55,870 --> 00:05:00,510 Speaker 1: almost like mentoring her and guiding her. And from the outside, 76 00:05:00,529 --> 00:05:04,390 Speaker 1: it looks like it's grooming. But I think in some ways, 77 00:05:04,420 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, some people seek that sort of protectorship and mentorship. 78 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:15,860 Speaker 1: And sometimes you get this weird combination of people who 79 00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: don't get attention at home, and then they get it 80 00:05:18,690 --> 00:05:21,190 Speaker 1: from inappropriate people. And I think, you know, we see 81 00:05:21,210 --> 00:05:23,870 Speaker 1: it on the internet where, and OnlyFans, I mean, where 82 00:05:23,910 --> 00:05:27,810 Speaker 1: else would you bear all of, you know, all this, 83 00:05:28,150 --> 00:05:31,750 Speaker 1: you know, naked bodies and skin and all this stuff. 84 00:05:32,290 --> 00:05:34,710 Speaker 1: And what is it for? It's all for attention. Right. 85 00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:39,650 Speaker 1: And I think ultimately at a very young age, if, 86 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: if kids don't get validation or if they're not seen 87 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: or valued for who they are, and if they're only 88 00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: seen and valued for how they look or, you know, 89 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:54,250 Speaker 1: the good grades that they get, or if they, um, 90 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:57,650 Speaker 1: made their bed and, and, cleaned up their, you know, 91 00:05:57,810 --> 00:06:02,900 Speaker 1: made sure that their, their. Yeah. I think you, kids 92 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:08,339 Speaker 1: can grow up seeking an unhealthy way to seek approval 93 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: and it just manifests itself in ways like we saw 94 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: in the movie. 95 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It certainly seems like, um, you know, that's 96 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: one of, there are many just despicable things about this, 97 00:06:22,850 --> 00:06:27,330 Speaker 2: but the, the, one of the most certainly is his 98 00:06:27,390 --> 00:06:31,510 Speaker 2: treatment of these kids, of his own son, that behavioral 99 00:06:31,570 --> 00:06:34,990 Speaker 2: thing of getting the son to ask the women out 100 00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:39,010 Speaker 2: that seems so disarming and charming, like this guy's a 101 00:06:39,130 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 2: family guy and a good dad. And your work is 102 00:06:44,660 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 2: so disturbing because he's a charming guy. and he knows 103 00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:54,179 Speaker 2: how to get what he needs and what he wants. 104 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that's part of the challenge of 105 00:07:00,779 --> 00:07:05,100 Speaker 1: playing a character like that, because obviously he was very 106 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,219 Speaker 1: successful at wooing these women. And the only way that 107 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: you look at what, what attracts people to, to someone 108 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: that they may be attracted to. And generally it's, it's, 109 00:07:20,370 --> 00:07:27,890 Speaker 1: When you give someone attention, especially women who are divorced, 110 00:07:28,010 --> 00:07:32,540 Speaker 1: and that's what Randy would prey on. Women who were 111 00:07:32,570 --> 00:07:38,220 Speaker 1: divorced and had kids and just the way in which 112 00:07:38,260 --> 00:07:41,940 Speaker 1: he was so calculating and trying to find out if 113 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: they had life insurance policies. And if they didn't, then 114 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:46,820 Speaker 1: all of a sudden he would break up with them. 115 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:50,350 Speaker 1: But yeah, to use his son to approach women at 116 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:55,230 Speaker 1: grocery stores and at the ball field like you saw 117 00:07:55,270 --> 00:07:58,620 Speaker 1: me do, it's just despicable. 118 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 2: It's really so, it's despicable. And it's also so, you know, 119 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: I think there are levels to this that are very, 120 00:08:09,260 --> 00:08:13,750 Speaker 2: very common when women in particular are in a vulnerable place. 121 00:08:14,570 --> 00:08:18,550 Speaker 2: And in Cindy's case, her husband had died. And he, 122 00:08:18,730 --> 00:08:21,300 Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, seemed to be a wonderful 123 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,100 Speaker 2: man and provider and all those things. And so she 124 00:08:24,140 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: was really quite heartbroken. And to manipulate that. And I 125 00:08:29,860 --> 00:08:33,110 Speaker 2: also wanted to bring up the fact of the friend. 126 00:08:33,590 --> 00:08:38,589 Speaker 2: I was talking offline about this, how you're always in 127 00:08:38,630 --> 00:08:42,030 Speaker 2: a losing position as the friend if you're like, hey, 128 00:08:42,540 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 2: your partner, he kind of sucks, you know, like he's 129 00:08:46,420 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: not a good guy. 130 00:08:48,179 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: He's he's creepy and he lies and he just, yeah, 131 00:08:54,179 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 1: you can't, it's hard. Very difficult, um, to be in 132 00:08:58,860 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: a position like that. Um, and Chrishell Stouse played Cindy's 133 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,730 Speaker 1: best friends and Chrishell actually worked with on all my 134 00:09:05,780 --> 00:09:06,780 Speaker 1: children back in the day. 135 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,330 Speaker 2: Oh, you did. 136 00:09:08,870 --> 00:09:11,970 Speaker 1: Yeah. I got to work with her again on this and, um, 137 00:09:12,740 --> 00:09:15,110 Speaker 1: And so we had, we have a really good friendship. 138 00:09:15,309 --> 00:09:18,890 Speaker 1: And so to be able to really go at each 139 00:09:18,950 --> 00:09:22,450 Speaker 1: other was fun because it kind of felt like we 140 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:25,740 Speaker 1: could go maybe deeper than, than we had just had 141 00:09:25,770 --> 00:09:27,940 Speaker 1: this familiarity with each other where we felt like we 142 00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:31,940 Speaker 1: could really try to creep each other out and really 143 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: get it under each other's skin. 144 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: Yes. It was very effective. You can see that because 145 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: it does feel like she, you know, there is a, 146 00:09:39,890 --> 00:09:42,429 Speaker 2: there's like a a look in your eye where you 147 00:09:42,809 --> 00:09:46,550 Speaker 2: are realizing oh she's not going away and i don't 148 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: like but then you have to be you know careful 149 00:09:49,820 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: enough with the response to not but you know do 150 00:09:52,580 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: you think so this is really the question do you 151 00:09:54,540 --> 00:09:59,670 Speaker 2: think that we get blinders on when you know when 152 00:09:59,710 --> 00:10:03,189 Speaker 2: we are vulnerable and really want something oh. 153 00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: Yeah haven't you ever dated someone where you were like 154 00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:10,620 Speaker 1: sure red flag red flag but you know what It's 155 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: so fun to hang out in Netflix and chill with him. Totally. 156 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: It's okay. 157 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: He had this little vial in his pocket. It had 158 00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:23,390 Speaker 2: white powder, but I'm pretty sure it was not drugs. Oh, 159 00:10:23,470 --> 00:10:26,290 Speaker 2: he came to New York with no money except to 160 00:10:26,350 --> 00:10:30,230 Speaker 2: live off of me? Listen, I think he just really 161 00:10:30,270 --> 00:10:33,429 Speaker 2: loves me. Just speaking from experience. Sorry. 162 00:10:33,550 --> 00:10:38,489 Speaker 1: Hey, I mean... I think we've all been there in 163 00:10:38,610 --> 00:10:41,770 Speaker 1: one shape or form or another and had to feel 164 00:10:41,790 --> 00:10:44,980 Speaker 1: like you've had to make excuses for someone that you've– 165 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:46,929 Speaker 1: like I've introduced to my family. 166 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: Right. 167 00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:50,940 Speaker 1: I was dating actually this one girl and my roommate 168 00:10:51,140 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: at the time, he comes up to me. He's like, hey, man, 169 00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:58,179 Speaker 1: did you eat my cornflakes? And I'm like, no. And 170 00:10:58,460 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: he's like, my cornflakes– I'm like, I don't even like cornflakes. 171 00:11:02,820 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: And he's like, do you think your girlfriend– maybe he's 172 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: eating them. And I'm like, cause she came to stay 173 00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:13,630 Speaker 1: with me for, for a little bit. And, uh, I 174 00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:15,750 Speaker 1: asked her, she's like, no, of course I like, what 175 00:11:15,890 --> 00:11:17,550 Speaker 1: are you talking about? I didn't eat your, and then 176 00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:20,470 Speaker 1: next thing you know, like, you know, some of his 177 00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:22,950 Speaker 1: potato chips are gone. And then some, and he's like, dude, 178 00:11:23,130 --> 00:11:25,890 Speaker 1: like something's going on. So one night I woke up 179 00:11:26,210 --> 00:11:27,870 Speaker 1: and I go into the kitchen and there she is 180 00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:32,230 Speaker 1: like eating. And, you know, I felt bad because she 181 00:11:32,390 --> 00:11:33,750 Speaker 1: obviously had an eating disorder. 182 00:11:33,770 --> 00:11:34,670 Speaker 2: The fact that. 183 00:11:34,770 --> 00:11:40,090 Speaker 1: She, was struggling with something as well and didn't feel 184 00:11:40,150 --> 00:11:43,610 Speaker 1: comfortable admitting it to me, but yet denied it and 185 00:11:43,630 --> 00:11:46,130 Speaker 1: then lied to my face about it. It's like, it's 186 00:11:46,210 --> 00:11:47,809 Speaker 1: one thing if you're dealing with something and then you're 187 00:11:47,870 --> 00:11:50,030 Speaker 1: honest and say, listen, yeah, this is what I'm struggling with. 188 00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:54,870 Speaker 1: But I think some people are not capable of admitting 189 00:11:55,550 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: something that it could be perceived as an imperfection or 190 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: a flaw. And so you put on this persona of 191 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: who you want the world to interact with. And what's 192 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 1: really interesting about acting and what I find fascinating about 193 00:12:11,620 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: it is this, the psychology of, of creating a character 194 00:12:17,260 --> 00:12:20,460 Speaker 1: and is, you know, people ask me like, when you 195 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,710 Speaker 1: play this character, do you ever lose yourself in the character? 196 00:12:23,780 --> 00:12:26,770 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you have to ever like shake 197 00:12:26,809 --> 00:12:29,230 Speaker 1: it off after, you know, a few weeks of playing 198 00:12:29,250 --> 00:12:33,750 Speaker 1: a character? And, you know, you see people like Daniel 199 00:12:33,790 --> 00:12:36,189 Speaker 1: Day-Lewis who become Bill the butcher and you have to 200 00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:38,770 Speaker 1: call him Bill in, on, you know, in the lunch line. 201 00:12:38,830 --> 00:12:41,569 Speaker 1: And like, he's, he's not Daniel, he's Bill for like 202 00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:44,829 Speaker 1: two months, you know? And I, I, I, Hey, whatever 203 00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:48,569 Speaker 1: works for whatever actor, I think go for it. But, 204 00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:51,069 Speaker 1: you know, then there's Jared Leto who would send like 205 00:12:51,150 --> 00:12:54,810 Speaker 1: dead rats to the cast of, um, you know, like 206 00:12:54,830 --> 00:12:57,270 Speaker 1: Margot Robbie when he was playing the Joker. And I 207 00:12:57,309 --> 00:12:59,050 Speaker 1: think you can kind of go. 208 00:12:58,970 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: To the extremes and. 209 00:13:00,550 --> 00:13:03,830 Speaker 1: Cross a line when you're trying to, create this persona 210 00:13:04,030 --> 00:13:06,550 Speaker 1: and make people afraid of you. But I think what's 211 00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:09,949 Speaker 1: really interesting is that the CIA, I read, did a 212 00:13:10,070 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: study once and they determined that essentially we all have 213 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: three different personas that we own and engage with and 214 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: create and put out there. And the first one is 215 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:27,430 Speaker 1: the persona that you want the world to interface with. 216 00:13:27,830 --> 00:13:28,050 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 217 00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:30,650 Speaker 1: You think about, okay, if I want to get this 218 00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:32,710 Speaker 1: job or if I want to get this girl or 219 00:13:32,750 --> 00:13:34,589 Speaker 1: if I, you know, if I want to be a 220 00:13:34,630 --> 00:13:35,290 Speaker 1: good dad. 221 00:13:35,309 --> 00:13:39,370 Speaker 2: Like sort of what's the appealing personality, yeah. 222 00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:43,410 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Like you think about what would that person 223 00:13:43,610 --> 00:13:48,470 Speaker 1: find attractive or want to hear? And so you start 224 00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:53,820 Speaker 1: to become calculating in how you create this persona that 225 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: the outside world interacts with. The second... self-identity is the, 226 00:14:00,410 --> 00:14:03,890 Speaker 1: the part of you that you feel comfortable enough to share. 227 00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:06,750 Speaker 1: Like when you come home and you've, you've got your, 228 00:14:06,890 --> 00:14:09,330 Speaker 1: with your husband or your wife, or, you know, where 229 00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:11,630 Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, man, my boss is such 230 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:13,610 Speaker 1: a jerk head. And I, you know, he did this 231 00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:17,430 Speaker 1: where you feel like you can honestly say what's really 232 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: going on that you wouldn't really tell anyone else. And 233 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: then there's the third part, the third persona, self-identity part 234 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,860 Speaker 1: of who we are, That we don't tell anyone. This 235 00:14:29,940 --> 00:14:36,170 Speaker 1: is the shadow. The shadow self. Where we, it's our deepest, 236 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:39,690 Speaker 1: darkest thoughts of when someone cuts you off in traffic, 237 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:42,850 Speaker 1: you're literally like, I want to kill you. And it's like, 238 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:46,850 Speaker 1: you don't literally, but like, I think some people actually, 239 00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:48,630 Speaker 1: I mean, you see some people actually do it. 240 00:14:49,070 --> 00:14:53,910 Speaker 2: Right. I mean, I do think that's something that, you know, Everyone, 241 00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:57,150 Speaker 2: this is what really fascinates me and I think is 242 00:14:57,250 --> 00:15:01,460 Speaker 2: important for us as human beings to understand is, you know, 243 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,239 Speaker 2: as you said in the beginning, no one is just 244 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: pure evil. That's just not like, I mean, maybe, maybe 245 00:15:07,340 --> 00:15:08,500 Speaker 2: there was some kind of. 246 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:10,820 Speaker 1: I think there's usually a reason. 247 00:15:11,260 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: Yes. 248 00:15:11,980 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: Something scarred you or you just didn't, you weren't, there 249 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:21,180 Speaker 1: was something lacking in your upbringing, your rearing. 250 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:21,270 Speaker 2: Yes. 251 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,510 Speaker 1: That scarred you emotionally or psychologically or spiritually or something, 252 00:15:27,470 --> 00:15:29,610 Speaker 1: you know, not that that's an excuse. Right. 253 00:15:29,710 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: But in an explanation or something. So Randy, many women 254 00:15:48,430 --> 00:15:51,119 Speaker 2: that he did this to, he was only convicted of, of, 255 00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:56,970 Speaker 2: killing Cindy of her death. But his first wife, Janice 256 00:15:57,210 --> 00:16:00,390 Speaker 2: had a hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy that went 257 00:16:00,450 --> 00:16:05,310 Speaker 2: into effect 20 days before she died. I mean, that's how, 258 00:16:05,390 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: how is that not suspicious? I don't know. Um, but 259 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: the investigators didn't find any physical evidence at the location 260 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: consistent with this. He said that she slipped and fell. 261 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: Randomly slipped off a cliff. Yeah. 262 00:16:22,510 --> 00:16:24,060 Speaker 2: I mean, so do you think it should have been 263 00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: further investigated when it happened? 264 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:26,940 Speaker 1: What a klutz. 265 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:27,460 Speaker 2: Right. 266 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 267 00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: Gosh, is she just clumsy. 268 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,780 Speaker 1: I mean, how do you slip off? I mean, come on. Right. 269 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,940 Speaker 2: So don't you think that that should have been further 270 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,260 Speaker 2: investigated more aggressively when it happened? 271 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is just the weird thing because 272 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,390 Speaker 1: on the outside, he looked just like a normal, nice guy. 273 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: Everyone in the neighborhood was like, yeah, it's Randy. He's 274 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,820 Speaker 1: a nice guy, always willing to help and mow the lawn. 275 00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: It's like you never think in a million years. But 276 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: after Cindy's death, then it's like, okay, this is. 277 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,100 Speaker 2: The second time. This guy's got the worst luck on earth? 278 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:11,980 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 279 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,869 Speaker 2: Right. So another friend of Randy's, he testified that shortly 280 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:20,850 Speaker 2: before Janice died, Randy asked him whether he could ever 281 00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:21,650 Speaker 2: kill his wife. 282 00:17:22,170 --> 00:17:22,270 Speaker 1: Oh. 283 00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:29,989 Speaker 2: And then after Janice died, the same friend asked him 284 00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:33,550 Speaker 2: what happened, and Randy told him he didn't want to 285 00:17:33,609 --> 00:17:37,609 Speaker 2: tell him something that he'd have to lie about. Is 286 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:39,790 Speaker 2: there any innocent way to hear that? 287 00:17:39,810 --> 00:17:43,489 Speaker 1: I mean... No, and I think this just goes to 288 00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:47,659 Speaker 1: show you how much of a narcissist Randy really was 289 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,260 Speaker 1: because narcissists, they just think the rules don't apply to them. 290 00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: And what they'll do is they'll test. And this is 291 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,460 Speaker 1: what I've read about narcissists. They will test the boundaries 292 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: and see just stepping over a little bit, like test, 293 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,179 Speaker 1: like that's why he tested his friend to see what 294 00:18:10,220 --> 00:18:12,910 Speaker 1: the friend would do. And the friend didn't really, do anything. 295 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:15,590 Speaker 1: And so Randy's like, okay, now I can, I feel 296 00:18:15,609 --> 00:18:18,850 Speaker 1: like I can push it even further. Right. When you 297 00:18:19,150 --> 00:18:23,710 Speaker 1: hear something enough, there was another study that was done 298 00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:28,050 Speaker 1: that you start to believe that it's true just because 299 00:18:28,090 --> 00:18:32,990 Speaker 1: of how many times you've actually heard it. Yes. Yes. 300 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:36,580 Speaker 2: Right. And that's part of the, it seems part of 301 00:18:36,619 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 2: the manipulation of not, we talk a lot about narcissists 302 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,490 Speaker 2: on this show because not every one, murderer is, but 303 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:52,909 Speaker 2: most many are. And that kind of like slow burn of, of, of, uh, 304 00:18:53,570 --> 00:18:56,430 Speaker 2: you know, sort of slowly telling somebody how it is 305 00:18:56,530 --> 00:19:00,929 Speaker 2: like Randy didn't start out telling Cindy how to do 306 00:19:00,970 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 2: her hair, that she needed to change her weight, that 307 00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:06,740 Speaker 2: she needed to do this and that he didn't start 308 00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: out that doing that. Right. He started out as this 309 00:19:09,380 --> 00:19:14,510 Speaker 2: charming guy. And so then, slowly start, you sort of 310 00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:18,490 Speaker 2: layer in these things where the person doesn't even necessarily 311 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,390 Speaker 2: realize they're being manipulated. Yeah. 312 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,340 Speaker 1: Yeah. And you can see he, sometimes you'll see it 313 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: in relationships. It's just these slow or these subtle little digs, 314 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: these subtle little, like, why would you do that? What 315 00:19:33,859 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: are you, what are you doing? Like, why would you, like, 316 00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,139 Speaker 1: where were you? And it's like, okay, we're going to, 317 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: we're going to, nip this right now. Like, you're not 318 00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:47,210 Speaker 1: my mother. You're not. Right. Or you're not my father. 319 00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:47,310 Speaker 2: Okay. 320 00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:53,260 Speaker 1: Like... I think people really have to be aware of 321 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: these subtle little things. And if you are in a 322 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: vulnerable position or place where you've just gotten out of 323 00:20:01,180 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: a relationship and taking care of a son and feeling 324 00:20:05,380 --> 00:20:09,340 Speaker 1: like that's a lot. Being a single mom is a lot. 325 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,700 Speaker 1: And to meet someone who's charming and wants to take 326 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,609 Speaker 1: you out on a date and tells you you look beautiful, 327 00:20:18,670 --> 00:20:20,650 Speaker 1: it can feel good. 328 00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:24,710 Speaker 2: And like someone who has a son of his own 329 00:20:24,850 --> 00:20:31,270 Speaker 2: and is a great dad, is kind to your child. Yeah. Yeah. 330 00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:36,540 Speaker 2: And so Cindy left behind a handwritten list of 44 331 00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:41,780 Speaker 2: things that Randy hated about her. And that note was 332 00:20:41,859 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 2: admitted at his trial. What, what did that tell you 333 00:20:45,420 --> 00:20:48,580 Speaker 2: about what life inside that marriage had become? 334 00:20:49,859 --> 00:20:59,540 Speaker 1: That he viewed women as possessions and for him, I 335 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: feel like the only thing that made him feel any 336 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,100 Speaker 1: sense of an idea of who he was, was if 337 00:21:08,140 --> 00:21:14,010 Speaker 1: he owned and controlled things. I think growing up, as 338 00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:18,310 Speaker 1: a kid, he was out of control a lot. And 339 00:21:18,330 --> 00:21:23,910 Speaker 1: I think when you're out of control and you grow 340 00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: up in an environment where you're not sure where love 341 00:21:27,810 --> 00:21:31,450 Speaker 1: is coming from or, you know, really where you exist 342 00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:35,010 Speaker 1: in your parents, you know, as far as like how 343 00:21:35,050 --> 00:21:37,770 Speaker 1: your parents view you. And if you're, if you're not 344 00:21:38,030 --> 00:21:42,150 Speaker 1: used to hearing, I love you. And it, I think 345 00:21:42,730 --> 00:21:45,629 Speaker 1: when you start to grasp for, for grasp for, for 346 00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: things that at least give you some sort of certainty 347 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: in life. And I think, especially when we're in arguments, 348 00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:55,260 Speaker 1: arguments usually are when you get out of control, you're 349 00:21:55,300 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: feeling like, you've lost a sense of feeling safe. And 350 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:11,189 Speaker 1: especially with men, we can get very angry. And the 351 00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:14,629 Speaker 1: reason why men get angry, and women too, is because 352 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:18,810 Speaker 1: it's the fastest way to gain certainty in any situation. 353 00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:22,390 Speaker 1: And so when a man is out of control, let's 354 00:22:22,410 --> 00:22:25,740 Speaker 1: say he's not feeling like he's in a great position 355 00:22:25,810 --> 00:22:27,990 Speaker 1: at work, maybe he's not making as much money as 356 00:22:28,030 --> 00:22:30,710 Speaker 1: he thinks he deserves, or he's not able to buy 357 00:22:30,730 --> 00:22:34,149 Speaker 1: his kids what the other parents are buying, or they 358 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:36,610 Speaker 1: can't go on vacations. And if a man feels like 359 00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:40,790 Speaker 1: he's not able to be who he wants to be, 360 00:22:40,830 --> 00:22:45,190 Speaker 1: the provider and the hero, anything that can test him 361 00:22:46,030 --> 00:22:48,889 Speaker 1: will make him go to this place of feeling, you 362 00:22:48,930 --> 00:22:52,490 Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to get angry and I'm going 363 00:22:52,510 --> 00:22:55,409 Speaker 1: to say some things that usually they don't mean. And 364 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: it's usually because it's the fastest way for people to 365 00:23:01,420 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: gain certainty in a situation when they're out of control. 366 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 2: I never thought about it that way as certainty, right? 367 00:23:09,859 --> 00:23:13,859 Speaker 2: Because that is then, in a sense, a form of control, right? 368 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,699 Speaker 2: If it's, I'm certain of this, I am making it so, 369 00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:22,149 Speaker 2: and then you're in the control position of things. And 370 00:23:22,190 --> 00:23:25,340 Speaker 2: that's a safer place and a more powerful place to be. Yeah. 371 00:23:26,140 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 1: And what's creepy is affection is not the same thing 372 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: as love. And what Randy would do is love bomb 373 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:41,290 Speaker 1: these women and they would feel the feelings of affection 374 00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:45,270 Speaker 1: and they would confuse it with love. And as soon 375 00:23:45,310 --> 00:23:48,350 Speaker 1: as they would then give love back because he's not 376 00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:52,850 Speaker 1: used to receiving it, that made him feel unsafe and uncomfortable. 377 00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:56,389 Speaker 1: And so it made him put up his, right. And 378 00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:59,170 Speaker 1: get angry. So the more that women would love him, 379 00:23:59,190 --> 00:24:03,190 Speaker 1: the more devious he would get. And I could see 380 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:09,340 Speaker 1: where he would just like, especially, um, when Cindy and 381 00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: he go out in the raft and, you know, they're 382 00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:14,700 Speaker 1: at a lake and they go out in the raft 383 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: and then they come back and she's dead and he's alive. 384 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,100 Speaker 1: And he said, well, A boat went by and flipped 385 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: the raft over, yet everything in the raft was still 386 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: in the raft and his sunglasses were still on. It's like, really? 387 00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:31,300 Speaker 2: And also, like, whoops, it just flipped over and he 388 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 2: seems to be, again, no empathy. Like, it just, it doesn't, 389 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,699 Speaker 2: it doesn't make any sense. 390 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,750 Speaker 1: Yeah. And the scene at the end where I'm being 391 00:24:42,810 --> 00:24:44,590 Speaker 1: interrogated by the two detectives. 392 00:24:44,890 --> 00:24:49,129 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. That's a good one. That's a very good scene. Yeah. 393 00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:51,750 Speaker 1: You know, I tried to play it where it was like, 394 00:24:51,770 --> 00:24:58,860 Speaker 1: I mean, there's, there's like, well, what are you talking? Like, 395 00:24:58,900 --> 00:24:59,700 Speaker 1: what do you mean me? 396 00:25:00,380 --> 00:25:03,010 Speaker 2: And they present it for people that haven't seen it. 397 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,620 Speaker 2: They present it such that the one investigator is like, 398 00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:12,540 Speaker 2: You're right, Randy. Like, everything's right. You're doing. We're just 399 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,540 Speaker 2: going to just, we just need some clarity on a 400 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,219 Speaker 2: couple little things. 401 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just have a couple more questions. 402 00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so he feels like, oh, I'm right. This is 403 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 2: a warm room. 404 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: Right, that they're on the same team. Let's find the 405 00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:25,830 Speaker 1: truth together, Randy. 406 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:26,570 Speaker 2: Right. 407 00:25:26,609 --> 00:25:29,670 Speaker 1: And that's the best approach that detectives that I've read 408 00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:32,510 Speaker 1: and FBI agents take. They try to befriend. Befriend. 409 00:25:32,530 --> 00:25:32,930 Speaker 2: Befriend. 410 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,380 Speaker 1: And say, listen, I know, listen, I know that must 411 00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: have been difficult. And, you know, a lot of people 412 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: in your situation would have done the same thing. I 413 00:25:41,100 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: get it. I hear you. You know, I'm just like, 414 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: would you help me understand this? And so they do 415 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,090 Speaker 1: a masterful job at that. But there's also the part of, 416 00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:58,290 Speaker 1: you know, he's got a play that he's got remorse, 417 00:25:58,530 --> 00:26:03,250 Speaker 1: even though he doesn't have remorse. So it's like this superficial... 418 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: talking about something horrendous that happened, but yet it's a 419 00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:10,369 Speaker 1: totally disconnected from any sort of feeling from it. 420 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 2: Right. 421 00:26:11,180 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: And I don't know if you saw the, uh, the 422 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,109 Speaker 1: new documentary trailer for, um, what is it? Elizabeth Holmes. 423 00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:20,210 Speaker 2: Yes. 424 00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:25,290 Speaker 1: Theranos where Nathan Fielder, where he's talking to her and 425 00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:29,790 Speaker 1: he's like, are you being real right now? And she's like, yeah, why, why, 426 00:26:29,970 --> 00:26:32,409 Speaker 1: why wouldn't I be real with you right now? Why 427 00:26:32,450 --> 00:26:34,830 Speaker 1: wouldn't I? And I was, have you ever watched the 428 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:39,610 Speaker 1: Diary of a CEO with Stephen Bartlett? 429 00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:40,609 Speaker 2: No. 430 00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: It's a really great podcast. And he had a psychologist 431 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,619 Speaker 1: on there and she was talking about like how sociopaths, 432 00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:56,140 Speaker 1: the way you can tell someone who's a sociopath is 433 00:26:56,420 --> 00:27:02,460 Speaker 1: when they're talking about explaining something She said they have 434 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: this look of surprise on their face. And sure enough, 435 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:11,590 Speaker 1: I just got that documentary. Elizabeth Holmes, her, her, she's like, 436 00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:14,590 Speaker 1: what do you mean? What are you talking about the 437 00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:17,209 Speaker 1: whole time? And she's like, well, I, of course I'm 438 00:27:17,230 --> 00:27:19,830 Speaker 1: being real with you right now. Why wouldn't I be real? 439 00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:20,930 Speaker 1: And it's this. 440 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,139 Speaker 2: That is amazing. It's like they read something that says, 441 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: if you really engage with your eye, it's like, if 442 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,470 Speaker 2: you directly engage, confront someone, you're telling the truth. Like 443 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: that is, that is so scary. 444 00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:37,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. 445 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,659 Speaker 2: I've met her and that before she was, and I 446 00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:46,540 Speaker 2: was like, this person is not right. She is not 447 00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: right in, in, in the head. This is not okay. 448 00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:55,020 Speaker 2: And that same expression all the time. It's super disturbing. 449 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,340 Speaker 1: I just find this fascinating. And I think the, the, uh, 450 00:28:00,710 --> 00:28:06,030 Speaker 1: the gold standard for how to play a sociopath serial 451 00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:14,980 Speaker 1: killer is in Silence of the Lambs Anthony Hopkins Hopkins 452 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: who plays Hannibal Lecter just the calm and the control 453 00:28:20,859 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: and the precision and the way in which you know 454 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,650 Speaker 1: he's so charming and the way in which he just 455 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:36,220 Speaker 1: metaphorically undresses Clarice, even with the glass between them. Yep. 456 00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:38,140 Speaker 1: It's fascinating. 457 00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:43,700 Speaker 2: Man, he was so good in that movie. Okay, Randy 458 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: testified for more than 20 hours and continued insisting that 459 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,460 Speaker 2: Cindy's death was an accident. Do you think that Randy 460 00:28:52,540 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: actually believed his own lies or simply believed that he 461 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,140 Speaker 2: was smarter than everyone else listening to him? 462 00:28:58,550 --> 00:29:01,290 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think he believed his own lies. The 463 00:29:01,310 --> 00:29:05,150 Speaker 1: problem is people are attracted to people who are confident 464 00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:10,070 Speaker 1: and who are certain about something. And it doesn't necessarily 465 00:29:10,850 --> 00:29:14,090 Speaker 1: matter what I realize that what you say is the 466 00:29:14,150 --> 00:29:14,730 Speaker 1: truth or not. 467 00:29:14,970 --> 00:29:17,470 Speaker 2: Right, because if they believe it, then that makes you 468 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,740 Speaker 2: believe it. You go, oh, they really believe this, so 469 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: there must be some validity to it. 470 00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:25,340 Speaker 1: And then it's like, am I the crazy one? 471 00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:27,150 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the basis of a lot 472 00:29:27,170 --> 00:29:30,580 Speaker 2: of cults too. People like, okay, I'm going to jump on, 473 00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: which he, Randy Roth, I feel like had, there were 474 00:29:33,820 --> 00:29:36,370 Speaker 2: moments in this movie where I felt like, oh, this is, 475 00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:39,630 Speaker 2: if he had had a little more time before he 476 00:29:39,670 --> 00:29:43,250 Speaker 2: got caught. he he could he maybe would have started 477 00:29:43,310 --> 00:29:46,710 Speaker 2: a cult you know between the young girl and his 478 00:29:46,930 --> 00:29:51,780 Speaker 2: own child and the women obviously it's like that kind 479 00:29:51,820 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: of behavior is. 480 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,100 Speaker 1: Yeah you see like with david koresh yes the waco 481 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,070 Speaker 1: thing and yep um I don't know. You see it. 482 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: I see it in religions. I mean, I think you 483 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: got to be careful what you engage with because a 484 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,780 Speaker 1: lot of drinking the Kool-Aid out there. 485 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,850 Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And that slow kind of, you know, Cindy, 486 00:30:21,130 --> 00:30:23,490 Speaker 2: there's a scene of this in the film as well 487 00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:28,230 Speaker 2: where he is choking her at night in bed. Well, amazing. 488 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,100 Speaker 2: you know, set like to a point where she's terrified 489 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,140 Speaker 2: and in pain. And she says, well, no, she kind 490 00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:41,790 Speaker 2: of explains it away and says he just has PTSD 491 00:30:41,890 --> 00:30:43,250 Speaker 2: from the military. 492 00:30:44,690 --> 00:30:47,730 Speaker 1: Even though he didn't even serve in combat. Like that's 493 00:30:47,770 --> 00:30:48,650 Speaker 1: the crazy thing. 494 00:30:48,910 --> 00:30:50,630 Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say. There's a lot 495 00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:53,820 Speaker 2: of this stuff of his sort of militaristic behavior that 496 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: he learned, but he, he was never, he never saw combat. Right. Right. 497 00:30:59,610 --> 00:31:00,450 Speaker 1: He lied about that. 498 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 2: He was really, really so calculated in, in so much 499 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,660 Speaker 2: of this that it's impossible. There is another quote that 500 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: a lifeguard and a paramedic were trying to revive Cindy. 501 00:31:28,530 --> 00:31:32,780 Speaker 2: And there were eyewitnesses that saw Randy just calmly gathering 502 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: the family's beach gear, loading up the car like I've 503 00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,100 Speaker 2: done this. I mean, is there anything more damning than that? 504 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,860 Speaker 2: Everybody responds to grief differently. We all understand that. But 505 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:51,550 Speaker 2: there is nothing normal about that response. No. If I may, 506 00:31:51,670 --> 00:31:55,030 Speaker 2: I did want to just say that I really admire 507 00:31:55,070 --> 00:32:00,170 Speaker 2: and appreciate how unusually candid you've been about your cancer 508 00:32:00,190 --> 00:32:03,490 Speaker 2: diagnosis and your recovery and your surgery and all those things. 509 00:32:03,570 --> 00:32:08,050 Speaker 2: And I'm just wondering, was there a conscious decision that 510 00:32:08,350 --> 00:32:10,970 Speaker 2: if you were going public, you weren't going to sanitize 511 00:32:11,020 --> 00:32:16,220 Speaker 2: parts of it, that you were going to really talk 512 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,980 Speaker 2: about things that people are often embarrassed to talk about? Yeah. 513 00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:26,230 Speaker 1: Well, thank you first off for acknowledging that. Yeah. Three 514 00:32:26,270 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: times going through cancer diagnosis. First time, 2006 testicular cancer. 515 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: And then it came back again the next year. And 516 00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:42,620 Speaker 1: because it's testicular cancer guy stuff, I didn't really feel 517 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: comfortable talking about it for a while. I didn't, I 518 00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:49,490 Speaker 1: didn't want to be known for that. I didn't get, I, 519 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:51,820 Speaker 1: I didn't, I was working on all my children. I 520 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,830 Speaker 1: didn't know if I was gonna get fired. I, I 521 00:32:55,850 --> 00:32:57,430 Speaker 1: didn't like, there was a lot of just, I didn't 522 00:32:57,490 --> 00:32:59,710 Speaker 1: want many people to know about it. So I just 523 00:32:59,750 --> 00:33:02,870 Speaker 1: tried to have the surgery and move on and, and 524 00:33:02,890 --> 00:33:06,170 Speaker 1: just keep going. But then I started to, you know, 525 00:33:06,210 --> 00:33:08,990 Speaker 1: I like to run and do triathlons. And so I 526 00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:12,610 Speaker 1: would start to do these charity, um, marathons that I'm, 527 00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm actually running the New York marathon this year to 528 00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:19,220 Speaker 1: raise money for cancer support community and city of hope hospital. Um, 529 00:33:20,110 --> 00:33:22,810 Speaker 1: And when I would do these charity runs, I would 530 00:33:22,850 --> 00:33:25,570 Speaker 1: meet people who were going through their cancer journey and 531 00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:28,990 Speaker 1: it just would organically come out where they would say, yeah, no, 532 00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:31,770 Speaker 1: I've got this, or I've got testicular cancer. I've got, 533 00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:34,670 Speaker 1: you know, this or whatever. And I'd like, oh yeah, I've, 534 00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:38,410 Speaker 1: I've had radiation too. And they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, 535 00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:40,730 Speaker 1: you had, how was your surgery? What was it like 536 00:33:40,780 --> 00:33:44,980 Speaker 1: for you? And I just found myself talking about it 537 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,140 Speaker 1: with people who are going through a cancer journey. And 538 00:33:48,180 --> 00:33:53,780 Speaker 1: actually it was, I realized it was healing for me too. 539 00:33:56,260 --> 00:33:58,820 Speaker 1: And what helped me through it was just reading about 540 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:01,630 Speaker 1: other people who had gone through it and gotten through 541 00:34:01,670 --> 00:34:05,050 Speaker 1: on the other side. And so I realized just me 542 00:34:05,090 --> 00:34:07,510 Speaker 1: talking to people and talking about it on social media 543 00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:12,150 Speaker 1: and being real about it was helping people navigate something 544 00:34:12,190 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: that can be scary. And then two years ago, diagnosed 545 00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:19,950 Speaker 1: with prostate cancer and Ooh, that was a, that was a, 546 00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:23,250 Speaker 1: a number. Um, but there's a lot of things that 547 00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:25,130 Speaker 1: you don't talk about in terms of like you've got 548 00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:27,670 Speaker 1: a catheter and you've got, you got to learn how 549 00:34:27,690 --> 00:34:29,270 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom again and you got to 550 00:34:29,290 --> 00:34:33,590 Speaker 1: wear male diapers and stuff. And so people were messaging 551 00:34:33,630 --> 00:34:35,390 Speaker 1: me on social media and I was like, yeah, you 552 00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:39,330 Speaker 1: know what? For five weeks, it's not the funnest, but 553 00:34:39,350 --> 00:34:40,219 Speaker 1: you're going to get through it. 554 00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:42,630 Speaker 2: And this is what's possible on. 555 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,380 Speaker 1: The other side. And, and, it helped me talking to 556 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: people who were on the other side of it. So 557 00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:52,260 Speaker 1: I just felt that, you know, if I can share 558 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,340 Speaker 1: something that might make it easier and give someone a 559 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,620 Speaker 1: little more empowerment through something that's kind of scary, I 560 00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: just felt like, you know, why not? 561 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:09,030 Speaker 2: Yeah. I really, bravo to that. I'm such a firm 562 00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:15,450 Speaker 2: believer in, you know, this is how we heal from anything, 563 00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:22,219 Speaker 2: any malady, emotional, physical disease, uh, abuse, anything is first 564 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 2: of all, we have to actually acknowledge it and be 565 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,109 Speaker 2: able to talk about it. It's, it's, it's just so 566 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:32,590 Speaker 2: important and, and it really does help other people. And 567 00:35:32,670 --> 00:35:36,450 Speaker 2: I know this Personally, from my dad passing away of 568 00:35:36,489 --> 00:35:39,770 Speaker 2: cancer and then me being very public talking about my 569 00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:44,010 Speaker 2: eating disorder, talk about something that nobody wants to hear that. 570 00:35:44,330 --> 00:35:47,169 Speaker 2: Certainly back in the day, they didn't. And it did 571 00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:50,029 Speaker 2: have an impact on my career. But I felt like 572 00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:54,430 Speaker 2: this is the reality of what's happening. And I have 573 00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:56,870 Speaker 2: to be true to myself. And through doing that, it 574 00:35:56,910 --> 00:36:01,380 Speaker 2: empowered me But then I also realized, oh, you can 575 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 2: help other people. And it's sort of this idea of 576 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,549 Speaker 2: answering the call of your life, whether it's the call 577 00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:11,650 Speaker 2: you wanted to get or not. And do you. 578 00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:14,070 Speaker 1: Feel like it was healing for you to talk about 579 00:36:14,110 --> 00:36:15,790 Speaker 1: it and help give you some clarity? 580 00:36:15,969 --> 00:36:16,469 Speaker 2: For sure. 581 00:36:16,489 --> 00:36:17,969 Speaker 1: And people, it's like that's part of, I don't know 582 00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:19,129 Speaker 1: how to say this, it's part. 583 00:36:19,070 --> 00:36:30,430 Speaker 2: Of sort of what you sign up for when you're 584 00:36:30,469 --> 00:36:33,390 Speaker 2: in the public eye to some degree. I know some 585 00:36:33,410 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: people feel very differently about that. They feel as though, 586 00:36:36,020 --> 00:36:39,100 Speaker 2: I didn't sign up for this. I signed up to 587 00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: make movies. It's like, well, if you wanted to be 588 00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: successful at it, it means people are going to know 589 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 2: who you are. 590 00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:46,270 Speaker 1: People are going to know, yeah. Yes. 591 00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:49,810 Speaker 2: So it's kind of like it does sort of come 592 00:36:49,830 --> 00:36:54,529 Speaker 2: with the territory to some degree. So I just really 593 00:36:54,570 --> 00:36:57,590 Speaker 2: appreciate that. And I just wanted to tell you that. 594 00:36:58,530 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much. 595 00:37:00,180 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 2: And I'm glad that you're healthy. 596 00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: Yes, thank you. And I want to acknowledge you for 597 00:37:05,219 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 1: doing what you're doing and just having me here. And 598 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,419 Speaker 1: I would love to come back. 599 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,500 Speaker 2: A Rose for Her Grave, the Randy Roth story, streaming. 600 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 2: And your work is really great in it. And I 601 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,630 Speaker 2: highly recommend it. So thank you so much for being here, Colin. 602 00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:24,140 Speaker 2: You're loveliest. It's been really nice to meet you. 603 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: Thanks, Alisa. Appreciate it.