WEBVTT - 357. Why do we doomspend?

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the

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<v Speaker 1>Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and

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<v Speaker 1>what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back

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<v Speaker 1>to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners,

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<v Speaker 1>old listeners. Wherever you are in the world, it is

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<v Speaker 1>so great to have you here. Back for another episode

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<v Speaker 1>as we, of course break down the psychology of our twenties. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>we are answering a question I have been having of

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<v Speaker 1>myself recently, Why am I spending so much money? Specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>why have I been using money to self sue, to

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<v Speaker 1>feel better about my life, to take away bad feelings

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<v Speaker 1>about the state of the world, probably more than I

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<v Speaker 1>ever have. We're talking about a phenomena that has been

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<v Speaker 1>popping up all over social media, in financial columns on TikTok,

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<v Speaker 1>this concept of doom spending. I also think it's a

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<v Speaker 1>great time to talk about money. With the holidays coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>The urge and the desire to spend perhaps more than

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<v Speaker 1>we have beyond our means is very very strong within us,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk about this specific type of compulsion,

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<v Speaker 1>this specific reason why you and I, people in their

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<v Speaker 1>twenties are spending all this money on things that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>we don't really need. Doom spending is basically the desire

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<v Speaker 1>or the impulse to spend money more rapidly and in

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<v Speaker 1>larger sums in response to our anxiety and uncertainty about

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<v Speaker 1>the future and about the world. It is this tendency

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<v Speaker 1>to live in the now, to spend because the future

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<v Speaker 1>is uncertain, to treat ourselves. It's the use of mine

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<v Speaker 1>to manage our emotions. And you might be thinking, like,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the problem with that? Like I work hard

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<v Speaker 1>for my money, surely I should be, and you are

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to spend it however I want. But there is

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<v Speaker 1>a level where it actually gets out of control. It

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<v Speaker 1>can begin to become a maladaptive coping mechanism, and it

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<v Speaker 1>can actually in a way feed into our pessimism about

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<v Speaker 1>the future in a way that is a little bit unhealthy. Also,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it takes away from our ability to plan

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<v Speaker 1>financially and to save and to achieve you know, financial freedom,

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<v Speaker 1>financial sustainability, to have long term financial goals. And although

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<v Speaker 1>we may not be thinking about that in our early

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<v Speaker 1>twenties or in our twenties at all, it is still

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<v Speaker 1>an important conversation. So in this episode, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about what doom spending actually is, why we do it,

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<v Speaker 1>what it says about the times we're living in, and

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<v Speaker 1>how to get control of about how you spend money

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<v Speaker 1>in a really healthy gentle and I think sustainable way.

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<v Speaker 1>Without further ado, let's get into it. Let's begin with

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<v Speaker 1>the basics. We always do this at the start of

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<v Speaker 1>every episode. I feel like a broken record, but just

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<v Speaker 1>so we have a clear definition of doom spending. What

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about is not just spending because you feel

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<v Speaker 1>like it. I'm talking about the use of spending often

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<v Speaker 1>that's impulsive as a way to calm a sense of

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<v Speaker 1>uncertainty or a threat. It is an emotional coping mechanism.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not buying things that you actually need. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>buying things that you know you want and you feel

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<v Speaker 1>like you should treat yourself to. It is buying because

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<v Speaker 1>the future doesn't feel like it's coming, and so you

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<v Speaker 1>want to live in the now and a way to

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<v Speaker 1>feel better about perhaps the future not coming, which, by

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<v Speaker 1>the way, it is, is to you know, spend and

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<v Speaker 1>to fill your wardrobe and to get the dopamine of

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<v Speaker 1>small purchases. To give this some historical perspective, this is

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<v Speaker 1>actually nothing new. It might feel this way, but we

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<v Speaker 1>are actually not the first generation to live through scary times.

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<v Speaker 1>We probably won't be the last, and economic spending does

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<v Speaker 1>increase in times of geopolitical uncertainty. There's also other interesting

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<v Speaker 1>cases of how money responds to our emotions in uncertain times,

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<v Speaker 1>some whacking examples. One that we found was that in

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<v Speaker 1>the eighteen hundreds there was this Baptist preacher named William Miller,

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<v Speaker 1>and he had this huge following, and he was like,

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<v Speaker 1>guess what, Jesus is going to return in eighteen forty four.

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<v Speaker 1>The world's going to end. The chosen few are going

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<v Speaker 1>to ascend into heaven, and so let's live it up.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, take out loans, build your dream house, buy

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<v Speaker 1>nice dinners, buy the car you want. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if they had cars, and the eighteen hundred they definitely didn't,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know what I mean, Like they were spending

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<v Speaker 1>all this money so lavishly because they didn't think they

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<v Speaker 1>would have to repay their debts. And then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the logic was that the apocalypse was so near. Why

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<v Speaker 1>not have fun now? And then the apocalypse didn't happen

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<v Speaker 1>and this whole community essentially went bankrupt. So we have

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<v Speaker 1>seen examples of this in the past. You know. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously it's not a religious apocalypse, it's climate change, it's inflation,

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<v Speaker 1>it's AI, it's the twenty four hour news cycle. But

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<v Speaker 1>the psychological pattern is the same. When the world feels unstable,

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<v Speaker 1>we turned to consumption as a way of asserting control

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<v Speaker 1>because spending money is one of the only things that

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<v Speaker 1>we can do that feels like it does something or

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<v Speaker 1>gives us something back, and that's doom spending. Why is

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<v Speaker 1>that the case? Why does spending money kind of feeling well?

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<v Speaker 1>When we spend money? Basically, our dopamine system is activated.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like you guys already know that. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>not just when we get the thing. It's when we

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<v Speaker 1>see something we like, when we anticipate a purchase, when

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<v Speaker 1>we click check out, when we're waiting for the parcel

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<v Speaker 1>to arrive, when we go and collect it. Every single

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<v Speaker 1>element of this process triggers the release of dopamine, and

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<v Speaker 1>at all those various touch points, our mood is briefly

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<v Speaker 1>improved and our stress is briefly lowered over time, we

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<v Speaker 1>learn through association that we feel better from spending. We

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<v Speaker 1>feel nice, and also it's accessible to us. We get

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<v Speaker 1>something in return, we get a good, we get an item.

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<v Speaker 1>So psychologically, spending functions like an emotional regulation strategy, much

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<v Speaker 1>like eating comfort food, much like scrolling social media. In

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<v Speaker 1>cognitive behavioral terms, if we want to go really psychological,

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<v Speaker 1>it is what we call negative reinforcement. The behavior, the

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<v Speaker 1>act of buying, of shopping removes distress, and that's pleasurable,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it's more likely to be repeated. So the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that we really need to note is that doom spending, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>is tied up in materialism. It's not necessarily about materialism.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about fear. It's about comfort, it's about control, it's

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<v Speaker 1>about feeling safe. Almost second, the evidence does really confirm

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<v Speaker 1>it's not just that, you know, we're a generation that

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<v Speaker 1>has more money. It's not just that shopping is more accessible,

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<v Speaker 1>that delivery like is more accessible, that things come faster.

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<v Speaker 1>Political and global context is driving over spending. Studies and

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<v Speaker 1>financial reports show that impulse spending has rapidly increased since

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic, and especially during the pandemic. That is when

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of these habits were triggered. You know, online

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<v Speaker 1>shopping was one of the very few joys we seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to have control over. I was so broke during the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>so broke, and I used to spend one hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember, I had like a little bit of money

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<v Speaker 1>in my bank account from my restaurant job that I

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<v Speaker 1>was obviously I didn't have, And I would spend like

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<v Speaker 1>one one hundred dollars on something and then I would

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<v Speaker 1>return it, and then I would buy something else and

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<v Speaker 1>then I would return it. I think I recycled that

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred dollars like five times. I even remember, like

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<v Speaker 1>I bought this tartan puffer jacket. I don't know why,

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<v Speaker 1>Like there was no weather that required me to buy that,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I returned it. And then I bought like

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<v Speaker 1>basically something exactly the same and returned that because of

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<v Speaker 1>the dopamine, And this is where a lot of us

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<v Speaker 1>learnt this habit. According to twenty twenty three data from

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<v Speaker 1>the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, credit card balances

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<v Speaker 1>in the US rose seventeen percent between twenty twenty and

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty two. That is the sharpest increase in decades.

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<v Speaker 1>Similar things happened in a lot of other countries where

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<v Speaker 1>credit card data is like readily available, So in the UK,

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia, across Europe, in Canada, across all these countries,

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<v Speaker 1>we could see this trend. Psychologists who are studying still

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<v Speaker 1>studying post pandemic consumer behavior. That sound kind of sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a tongue twister, but post pandemic consumer behavior. Note

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<v Speaker 1>that collective trauma, economic precarity, social isolation. Basically, what it's

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<v Speaker 1>all created are these shorter planning horizons. The future feels bleak,

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<v Speaker 1>it feels uncertain, and so we tend to not think

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<v Speaker 1>that it's going to happen. When you ask people in

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<v Speaker 1>their twenties or in their thirties, people our age, Hey, like,

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<v Speaker 1>how far do you think in the future. For me,

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably only six months, And that's not normal, Like

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<v Speaker 1>you should be able to plan and think about your

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<v Speaker 1>life long term. But I think the state of the

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<v Speaker 1>world means that it's really hard to Everything is changing

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<v Speaker 1>so far. It's like you just can't imagine the world

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<v Speaker 1>beyond six months. So if you can't imagine the world

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<v Speaker 1>in six months, why are you going to save for

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<v Speaker 1>a financial goal that's ten years away, like buying a house.

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<v Speaker 1>Why are you going to save for a financial goal

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<v Speaker 1>that's fifty years away or forty years away, like retirement.

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<v Speaker 1>The appeal of this immediate gratification in the face of

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<v Speaker 1>like really scary stuff often overshadows, you know, a more

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<v Speaker 1>rational decision making process that is reliant on us being

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<v Speaker 1>able to imagine a future with us in it. Another explanation,

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<v Speaker 1>spending money is just a nice distraction. When you're thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about when you're hal's going to arrive, When you're thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about how this next outfit is going to change your life,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not thinking about everything else that's going wrong. And

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<v Speaker 1>this really aligns with like the infamous little treat narrative. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a big fan of this. I love a little treat.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a big believer in little treats. It's not inherently

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<v Speaker 1>bad to treat yourself, and I actually think it's, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>an important part of self care and self comfort. But

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<v Speaker 1>when treat culture turns into habitual, high spend behavior, especially

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<v Speaker 1>when it's triggered by fear or anxiety, that's a coping mechanism,

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<v Speaker 1>not a reward. And add that to the fact that nowadays,

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<v Speaker 1>like companies and the global economy and you know, big

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<v Speaker 1>brands are taking advantage of that. Is it really about

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<v Speaker 1>us or is it being manipulated for profit? The other

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<v Speaker 1>day I was Insidney driving to the airport and I

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<v Speaker 1>saw this massive billboard that was like from McDonald's and

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<v Speaker 1>it said existing question mark, you deserve a little tree.

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<v Speaker 1>That that's a marketing con like. That is not self care.

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<v Speaker 1>That is McDonald's trying to get you to buy the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that they have designed for you, to spend money

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<v Speaker 1>to fill their pockets. And especially nowadays, when we are

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<v Speaker 1>bombarded with targeted ads, we are streamlined into buy now

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<v Speaker 1>buttons and limited time offers and sales. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>shift from reward to regulation, it can happen really subtly

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<v Speaker 1>and is impacting a lot of us. It's impacting me

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<v Speaker 1>for sure. You know, there really is something to be

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<v Speaker 1>said about doom spending, the fact that so many people

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<v Speaker 1>in their twenties are spending more money than they probably have,

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<v Speaker 1>and the role of technology and social media. Think about

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<v Speaker 1>the last time you scrolled your Instagram feed. You will

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<v Speaker 1>see news of genocide, news of political unrest, news of

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<v Speaker 1>climate disasters, and then what happens after that. Add for

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<v Speaker 1>a designer bag, we can get away pair of sneakers,

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<v Speaker 1>phone case, sweater, t shirt, buy now, Buy now, Buy now.

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<v Speaker 1>That's emotional whiplash. You are going from panic and despair

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<v Speaker 1>to pleasure and intrigue. And that is not accidental. It's

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<v Speaker 1>engineered social media platforms, and there have been articles on this.

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<v Speaker 1>There have been people who have come out who were

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<v Speaker 1>involved in making these systems, who have come out and said,

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<v Speaker 1>we designed it this way. They are made to monetize

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<v Speaker 1>your attention because when ads make money, they make money,

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<v Speaker 1>and the way ads make money is if the site

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<v Speaker 1>holds your attention long enough to trigger an emotion that

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<v Speaker 1>will produce a sale. Fear, outrage, sadness, whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 1>These all heightened arousal. They keep us scrolling more and more.

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<v Speaker 1>And once you're in that heightened emotional state, once your

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<v Speaker 1>defenses are lowered, once the world feels terrible, you're more suggestible,

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<v Speaker 1>you're more reward seeking, you're more likely to act impulsively.

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<v Speaker 1>The discomfort we feel when we flip between threat and

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<v Speaker 1>reward requires an antidote. We want a solution, We want

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<v Speaker 1>to feel better, and then this algorithm these social media platforms,

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<v Speaker 1>they serve it right up to us. A twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four study by researchers in Indonesia found that exposure to

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<v Speaker 1>emotionally charged content significantly increased impulse buying in people in

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<v Speaker 1>their twenties in young adults. Essentially, after being emotionally activated,

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<v Speaker 1>people were more likely to buy stuff and when they

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<v Speaker 1>were asked why, oftentimes they couldn't really explain it. So

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.400
<v Speaker 1>this is when spending because you want something, spending because

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.560
<v Speaker 1>you do deserve a little treat, and spending because you

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.040
<v Speaker 1>don't really know why you're spending, and because it's a

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 1>form of coping and a mo regulation. This is when

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the line really begins to blur and what began as

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 1>harmless distraction as actually feeling a need like you do

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 1>need clothes and you do need things in your life,

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 1>can quietly turn into like a routine, an addiction, a

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 1>really toxic habit. So let's talk about the signs that

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.840
<v Speaker 1>your doom spending might be going too far and what

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>you can do about it after this short break, So

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 1>how do you know when treating yourself has tipped into

0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.120
<v Speaker 1>something else? Entirely most of us don't wake up one

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>morning and think like, oh no, I have developed an

0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 1>unhealthy coping mechanism. What will I do about this? Like

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.040
<v Speaker 1>it really creeps in slowly, it's disguised again is as

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.880
<v Speaker 1>fun as keeping up with trends. But here are the

0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 1>signs that it's gone a little bit too far. Firstly,

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 1>you notice that your biggest shopping days aren't actually when

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you need anything, aren't when you've just gotten paid, aren't

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.200
<v Speaker 1>when you're celebrating. They actually occur when you're anxious, when

0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 1>you're overwhelmed, or you're sad, Especially if you are shopping

0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot at night, big red flag inhibitions are lowered.

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 1>Often that's when our biggest feelings come about. We're tied

0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.840
<v Speaker 1>from the day. Shopping is the band aid. Secondly, this

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 1>one's the obvious one. You're spending beyond your means, and

0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>you're seriously spending beyond your means. You know. A huge

0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 1>thing that has boomed in recent years is these buy now,

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.880
<v Speaker 1>pay later, buy and for delayed payment options. Even using

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>credit cards to pay for small things that aren't necessities

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.120
<v Speaker 1>also comes under this. Now, I don't think these kinds

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.000
<v Speaker 1>of options are inherently bad at all. To be honest,

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I use Klana. I use like the PayPal for in

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what it is like the for payment things,

0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>especially because I don't get paid regularly. It like helps

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 1>me break up my budget. And I used to use

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.080
<v Speaker 1>it when I was working as a consultant and I

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.719
<v Speaker 1>got paid monthly, just to kind of like make the

0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 1>things I was repaying for weekly and monthly as well.

0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.359
<v Speaker 1>I think they offer flexibility, but they also allow you

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.879
<v Speaker 1>to go a little bit too far. Behavioral economists have

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>highlighted that separating the payment from the consumption reduces what

0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 1>we call the pain of paying. This is a concept

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.159
<v Speaker 1>that was coined in the nineties and the pain of

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 1>paying is an important part of the buying process and

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 1>is basically the psychological discomfort that makes us hesitate before

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.879
<v Speaker 1>a purchase. When we use later pay options, it delays

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.199
<v Speaker 1>or disguises the payment so our brain feels like it

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.480
<v Speaker 1>can experience all of the rewards, a none, or a

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>fraction of the cost until later on. That is the danger,

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.399
<v Speaker 1>and again they're not necessarily bad, they're not all bad,

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 1>but what it does have the potential to slip into

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.720
<v Speaker 1>is chasing payments slipping into debt if they are used

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 1>for things to pay for things that are beyond our means.

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Even if you want to use these platforms to pay

0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.000
<v Speaker 1>for your shopping, you have to ensure that you actually

0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 1>have the money there to use it if you needed to.

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.200
<v Speaker 1>And that's how you prevent the cost from stacking up

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>when you have no other way to pay for these

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:26.960
<v Speaker 1>or when the payments are due. I think something really

0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 1>related to this that shows doom spending has gone too

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.840
<v Speaker 1>far for you is if you found yourself deliberately ignoring

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:38.199
<v Speaker 1>bank statements, deliberately ignoring notifications, feeling a sense of dread

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>when you open your banking app. Financial avoidance is a

0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.439
<v Speaker 1>huge red flag and a huge coping mechanism that a

0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.080
<v Speaker 1>lot of us in our twenties have because your brain

0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 1>is trying to shield you from all the fear and

0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.160
<v Speaker 1>shame and the guilt and just keep all the good stuff,

0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.199
<v Speaker 1>keep all the purchases, keep all the dopamine. But that

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 1>cycle actually makes get worse. You're no longer aware of

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.240
<v Speaker 1>how much is coming in and out of your account

0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.640
<v Speaker 1>each week. You don't know how much you really need

0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.919
<v Speaker 1>to live. At first, it's an easier option to just

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 1>not look, but I promise you. I have done that

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 1>when I Again, when I was working as a consultant,

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 1>I had terrible financial habits, which is ironic. Having financial accountability,

0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 1>even if you really have to stare your shopping and

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 1>you're spending straight in the face, is so much better

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.520
<v Speaker 1>for you long term. So if you have recognized this

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 1>pattern in yourself, how do you stop now? I'm not

0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.800
<v Speaker 1>gonna say like, swear off spending altogether. Go cold turkey

0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.080
<v Speaker 1>never works. I don't think it's realistic. It's like telling

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 1>yourself never to eat sugar again. You can eat sugar

0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.680
<v Speaker 1>by Lake Tuesday instead. The goal is to retrain your

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 1>brain to replace emotional spending with more sustainable forms of

0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:00.679
<v Speaker 1>regulation and of control. So here are a few tips

0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.720
<v Speaker 1>of like how to start how to do that? First,

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 1>let's flip it around. If doom spending is about spending

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.880
<v Speaker 1>because the future feels uncertain, doom saving is about saving

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>because it feels uncertain. It's like a little way to

0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.800
<v Speaker 1>create a sense of safety and a sense of the

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 1>future in a very small, very tangible way. You don't

0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>have to start with huge amounts. Actually, research always shows

0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 1>us small, consistent you know, saving goals is key. Five

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 1>or ten dollars a week. It actually increases your sense

0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>of confidence in your own ability to manage money, but

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 1>also feelings of psychological well being and feelings of self trust,

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.399
<v Speaker 1>like hey, like, I'm proud of this. I'm I'm taking

0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.440
<v Speaker 1>this thing that I earned, that I worked hard for,

0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.680
<v Speaker 1>and I'm building something for my future, And the very

0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.679
<v Speaker 1>fact that it's there has this weird reverse way of

0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 1>telling you that there will be a future, which is

0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 1>really what we're trying to get down to at the

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.680
<v Speaker 1>end of the day. Behavioral economist Richard Thaylor. He called

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:10.960
<v Speaker 1>this approach mental accounting, reframing savings not as deprivation but

0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.360
<v Speaker 1>as a reward, as an act of self care, as

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:19.880
<v Speaker 1>an act of self trust, as an act of yeah,

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 1>future investment, like you're saving for the life that one

0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.160
<v Speaker 1>day you're going to really love and enjoy. And this

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 1>really counters the idea that we explored earlier of temporal

0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:33.640
<v Speaker 1>discounting or present bias, because the future feels are so uncertain.

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.919
<v Speaker 1>You know, we spend more money now, but if we

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 1>save more, the possibilities for the future, the trip, we're

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.600
<v Speaker 1>saving for the dream house. They expand I found this

0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 1>incredibly interesting article published in twenty eleven in the Journal

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:52.880
<v Speaker 1>of Marketing Research that found across four studies, participants who

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:59.160
<v Speaker 1>were basically asked to interact with realistic, computer generated simulations

0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:05.639
<v Speaker 1>of their future using virtual technology were more likely to

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:08.800
<v Speaker 1>accept a larger sum of money down the line. So,

0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.080
<v Speaker 1>just to like roll that back, they got all these people,

0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:16.439
<v Speaker 1>these participants, and they put them in these simulations. They

0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.840
<v Speaker 1>let them create these simulations of like really beautiful future

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>and they were really realistic. And then they said, oh, hey,

0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.680
<v Speaker 1>by the way, you actually get paid for this. Would

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.399
<v Speaker 1>you want fifty dollars now or do it mean to

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.439
<v Speaker 1>give you one hundred dollars at the end of the

0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:36.240
<v Speaker 1>term or one hundred dollars in three months. And the

0:22:36.280 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 1>people who had seen these really positive versions of themselves

0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:43.240
<v Speaker 1>and whose futures seemed really happy and bright, they wanted

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.919
<v Speaker 1>to wait. In all cases, they wanted to accept the

0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:52.560
<v Speaker 1>later monetary reward over the immediate one. And I just

0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.280
<v Speaker 1>think I love this study. It really brilliantly demonstrates that

0:22:55.840 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 1>keeping that future self in mind, forcing yourself to really

0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.280
<v Speaker 1>imagine them when making these financial decisions when going to

0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:09.400
<v Speaker 1>buy stuff, goes a long way. Next, the next tip

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 1>that we can really do for ourselves is just reallocate

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 1>where your money goes. Psychological research consistently finds that spending

0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 1>on experiences, rather than material goods like a new top

0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:25.080
<v Speaker 1>or a new pair of shoes, leads to greater and

0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:32.320
<v Speaker 1>longer lasting happiness. Why Because experiences connect to identity, and

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 1>experiences connect to relationships, and experiences connect to a deep

0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>sense of memory and sense of self and sense of interconnectedness.

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Spending on experiences as well build stories, gives you stories,

0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 1>gives you memories that make you excited for future memories,

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and they give you something that's going to last a

0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:57.160
<v Speaker 1>lot longer than plastic and a lot longer than clutter.

0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:00.679
<v Speaker 1>And Like, don't get me wrong, I love things. I

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:03.399
<v Speaker 1>love clothes, I love buying stuff I have. I have

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.400
<v Speaker 1>so many purchases that are just stupid that I still

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 1>really really value. But are they going to be the

0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 1>things I take with me? No? I literally can't. But

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 1>buying the concert ticket, doing the day trip, spending a

0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>little bit of extra money so that we can get

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 1>a nice place on the girl's weekend, Like, those things

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>really anchor me, and they anchor us in memory and

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.280
<v Speaker 1>in belonging, and they are a great, great way to

0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:36.600
<v Speaker 1>form novel and exciting experiences that just makes life worth

0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and feel worth living. Another way, I'm full of tips today.

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Another way to begin reallocating your spending that I do

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:46.960
<v Speaker 1>is I create, and I have created a twenty four

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.359
<v Speaker 1>hour rule. And friends of mine have seen me use this.

0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:52.399
<v Speaker 1>They can tell you it works. When I see something

0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 1>I want, I do not buy it right away. I'm

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.840
<v Speaker 1>allowed to buy it eventually, but I have to wait

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.359
<v Speaker 1>minimum to twenty for hours. I get my notes app

0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.160
<v Speaker 1>up on my phone. I write it down. I write

0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.440
<v Speaker 1>down the item, the price, the date I initially wanted

0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 1>to buy it. Then I just let it sit. This

0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 1>short delay activates what psychologists call system to thinking, that slower,

0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 1>more deliberate part of your brain that handles logic and

0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 1>that handles long term reasoning. When you give the impulsive

0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 1>part of your brain pause, this system too. This second

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 1>system locks in and allows you to spend better align

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 1>it's been in, more alignment with your values. Most of

0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:42.600
<v Speaker 1>the time. You will find that the desire fades once

0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 1>the emotional charge passes, and if it doesn't, then you

0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 1>know the purchase actually matters to you. It's more intentional,

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:52.520
<v Speaker 1>it's not reactive. Like I said, I've done this for years.

0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:54.720
<v Speaker 1>I keep a want to buy list on my phone,

0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:57.919
<v Speaker 1>and in preparation for this episode, I was like, what

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.600
<v Speaker 1>have I got on there? I haven't actually looked all

0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:02.360
<v Speaker 1>the way back for a little while. I just add

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>things on. I cannot even remember putting some of these

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:09.120
<v Speaker 1>things on the list. One of them was like white

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Abercrombie jeans. I literally listened them here and Imagen and

0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:16.719
<v Speaker 1>Willie shirt, what even is that? Like, I don't I'm

0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:19.040
<v Speaker 1>sure it's great image and Willy, I'm sure you make

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:21.320
<v Speaker 1>great shirts. Like but I don't know what that is.

0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:24.560
<v Speaker 1>This print that says love is a kiss on the forehead,

0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:27.720
<v Speaker 1>super cute. I don't know what that print looks like.

0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure it's great, but like I didn't need it.

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:31.919
<v Speaker 1>There was another thing that was on There was a

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Gani key chain that was three hundred dollars. Like what

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:39.359
<v Speaker 1>I think that was when like everybody was doing those

0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:43.520
<v Speaker 1>like trinkets on the bag situation, which I love. I

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:46.520
<v Speaker 1>got into it, but like three hundred dollars, Like that's

0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.959
<v Speaker 1>so much money, that's so much money, and like I

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>wasn't even that. I was like, thank god, I didn't

0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:55.440
<v Speaker 1>buy that. That distance like provided some clarity. It has

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>saved me. I think I did like a little calculation

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:01.120
<v Speaker 1>of like five things, and it was totally over twelve

0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:04.600
<v Speaker 1>hundred dollars just because I waited, just because I had

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>this list. There is, of course, other ways of going

0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:12.679
<v Speaker 1>about this. I have a friend who and I'm just

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:15.000
<v Speaker 1>gonna give her a shout out because she she said

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:16.400
<v Speaker 1>she was gonna do this at the start of the year.

0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 1>It is what is it like November now and she's

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:24.440
<v Speaker 1>still doing it. She is only allowed to buy secondhand

0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 1>goods for the whole year, unless it's like underwear. And

0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:32.640
<v Speaker 1>I cannot tell you the amount of times that I'm

0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.560
<v Speaker 1>not gonna lie I low KEI wanted her to break

0:27:35.359 --> 0:27:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the pact. I wanted her to break I promised to myself.

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Emma, but like she because you know, something

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:44.760
<v Speaker 1>looks really cute on her or whatever, but she genuinely

0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:48.360
<v Speaker 1>like has stuck to it. Her deepop purchases are amazing,

0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Like she's doing so well, and I just like feel

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.280
<v Speaker 1>like that's another system where it's like you're allowed to buy,

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:59.040
<v Speaker 1>you're allowed to spend, you do so more sustainably. Another

0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 1>friend of mine. Albeit, I will say she lives with

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 1>her boyfriend. They don't have much space, but they have

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 1>the one in, one out rule, so she can buy stuff,

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:09.879
<v Speaker 1>but she has to get rid of something. And she

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:11.960
<v Speaker 1>has a great closet. She has a full closet. But

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 1>it really allows her to be conscious of what is

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:17.720
<v Speaker 1>really reflecting me. What do I really want to spend

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:21.639
<v Speaker 1>my money on? Is there anything that like? Is this

0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.040
<v Speaker 1>really gonna bring me value? I'm gonna wear this enough

0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 1>that I should throw something out or I should donate something.

0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 1>It sounds simple, but it's a subtle form of what

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:35.400
<v Speaker 1>we call a commitment device, a behavioral nudge, a behavioral

0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 1>rule that adds accountability, and that reminds you that every

0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 1>purchase does have a cost beyond money. It costs you space,

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 1>it costs you attention, It costs you your emotional bandwidth

0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:49.880
<v Speaker 1>as well. And I think it also allows you to

0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 1>build a sense of identity through intentional ownership. Like your

0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 1>life is not a trend, your emotions are are not trendified. Right.

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:03.120
<v Speaker 1>You can't let your emotions be the thing that determines

0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:05.920
<v Speaker 1>who you're going to be because you spend money to

0:29:06.560 --> 0:29:11.080
<v Speaker 1>soothe them. You really develop a sense of personal style,

0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:14.840
<v Speaker 1>develop a sense of a personal brand, you really develop

0:29:14.880 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 1>a sense of personal like money values. That is so

0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 1>so powerful. I think what we're really talking about here

0:29:23.880 --> 0:29:28.600
<v Speaker 1>is just mindful consumption, slowing down, having a sense of intention,

0:29:29.080 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 1>being deliberate about what you fill your life with. So

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 1>many studies say our physical possessions impact our mindset and

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:40.120
<v Speaker 1>our psychology. So don't just like fill up your space

0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:42.560
<v Speaker 1>with shit you don't need and stuff that like isn't

0:29:42.600 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 1>important to you, because then your life's going to feel unimportant,

0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 1>and your environment's going to feel cluttered, and it's not

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:52.200
<v Speaker 1>going to feel like yours. Finally, one of the biggest

0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 1>tips to help you with your doom spending increase the

0:29:56.360 --> 0:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>pain of paying. One of the reasons spending has been

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>come so automatic is that you don't have to put

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:05.240
<v Speaker 1>in your credit card details, you don't have to hand

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.840
<v Speaker 1>over cash. The other day, I bought my friend this.

0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 1>I just had to do the mental math. This episode

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 1>will be out after her birthday, But for her birthday,

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:19.480
<v Speaker 1>I bought her like this really beautiful I guess, like bathrobe,

0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:21.720
<v Speaker 1>like beach towel robe that she wanted for her birthday,

0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 1>And it literally took me less than a minute to

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 1>buy it, to the point where I was like, oh

0:30:29.160 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 1>is that wasn't Did I actually purchase that? And it

0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:35.520
<v Speaker 1>was like, yeah, I did. No friction, No friction. We

0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:40.240
<v Speaker 1>need to reintroduce the pain of paying, the sting that

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:45.440
<v Speaker 1>stops us from spending. Delete your saved cards on your phone,

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:51.920
<v Speaker 1>turn off Apple Pay, turn off your one click check out,

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 1>use cash. These small bits of friction make you purchase conscious,

0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 1>make you money conscious. Before you click by, like, there's

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>just a couple more seconds where you have to really like,

0:31:06.000 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 1>you have to go find your card, you have to

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 1>punch in your details. That delay again, it gives you.

0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:15.680
<v Speaker 1>It gives your brain, your rational brain, a chance to

0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 1>catch up and a chance to be like, hey, wait

0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:20.959
<v Speaker 1>do I actually need this? You know, is this actually useful?

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>What impulse am I trying to suppress here? When it

0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:29.160
<v Speaker 1>takes energy to buy something, you have time to reevaluate,

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>You have time to realign it with being intentional, with

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:36.640
<v Speaker 1>adding value to your life, with spending according to your values.

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:38.560
<v Speaker 1>And I think that just makes you a much more

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 1>powerful person, and it gives you a much stronger, much

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:44.320
<v Speaker 1>more strong mindset and even sense of personal identity. It

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 1>goes quite deep. So to wrap up this episode, I

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 1>think what doom Spending really reveals is so much more

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:55.040
<v Speaker 1>than materialism and consumption. I think it's so easy for

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 1>people to be like you're just like you're you're just consumerist,

0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:00.600
<v Speaker 1>and like you just like spending money. It's like, no,

0:32:00.720 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 1>this is about a sense of control we have in

0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:07.400
<v Speaker 1>our twenties right now, you and me, our generation, do

0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>you like, do you ever just sit down and realize

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:14.120
<v Speaker 1>what we have lived through the amount of like history

0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 1>defying events that have occurred in our lifetime and we

0:32:18.840 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>have to read about it or see it or are

0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:26.240
<v Speaker 1>exposed to it constantly. Of course, your brain wants something

0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 1>certain even if that's certainty, the only way you can

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 1>get it is like a parcel at the front door.

0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 1>That is for some of us, like the best we

0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:37.080
<v Speaker 1>can do right now. And so there's no shame if

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:39.800
<v Speaker 1>that is something that you've relied on. There's no shame

0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 1>if like sometimes like going on a shop, going on

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.400
<v Speaker 1>a spree, like buying stuff makes you feel better. I

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:48.120
<v Speaker 1>just want you to know about it, and I just

0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 1>want you to think about whether that's actually what you

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.040
<v Speaker 1>want from what you want from your life and if

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you want to keep spending the way that you are,

0:32:54.600 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 1>if deep down you know it might be a problem.

0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think this is like, guys, to get

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.960
<v Speaker 1>really deep. It's the psychology of your twenties in a nutshell.

0:33:03.520 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 1>This is about learning how to sit with uncertainty without

0:33:07.880 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 1>letting it rule you, recognizing when we're trying to fill psychological,

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:19.120
<v Speaker 1>mental emotional gaps with things, and just gently redirecting. So

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 1>thank you, thank you for listening. If you've made it

0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 1>this far, I like to do this thing you guys

0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 1>know at the end of my episodes where like to

0:33:26.360 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 1>reward your attention span and to reward you for listening,

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 1>you get the secret code for the episode. So today,

0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.320
<v Speaker 1>if you made it this far, what is something currently

0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:41.280
<v Speaker 1>on your buy list that you're putting off buying? Is

0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 1>it white jeans? Is it three hundred dollar garning key Jane,

0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:47.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Drop it down below. What are you

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:51.640
<v Speaker 1>currently thinking about buying? How much is it? Do you

0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 1>need it or not? I want to hear what's on

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>everybody's lists, not in a way that like to encourage

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:58.480
<v Speaker 1>people to buy them, just like I just want to

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:02.520
<v Speaker 1>know for curiosity. I want to thank our research assistant

0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Libey Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She is

0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:08.720
<v Speaker 1>a hero. She is a champion and we love her. Also,

0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:11.279
<v Speaker 1>make sure that you are following us on Instagram at

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:15.160
<v Speaker 1>that Psychology podcast. It's December coming up, and you know

0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:18.919
<v Speaker 1>what that means. It means guest month. Yes, that's right,

0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:22.359
<v Speaker 1>a whole month just of guests, just of really cool

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:24.320
<v Speaker 1>people that I got to talk to. So if you

0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:26.160
<v Speaker 1>want to know who's going to be on the show,

0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:29.359
<v Speaker 1>make sure you're following us over there, or that you're

0:34:29.360 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 1>following us slash subscribed whatever you are listening to this episode. Again,

0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you giving us a

0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:39.279
<v Speaker 1>five star review and your support for the podcast. And

0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:43.080
<v Speaker 1>until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself,

0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:47.399
<v Speaker 1>spend consciously, and we will talk very very soon.