1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:26,570 Speaker 1: Pushkin a warning before we start. This cautionary tale discusses 2 00:00:26,650 --> 00:00:30,930 Speaker 1: death by suicide. If you're suffering emotional distress or you're 3 00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:35,530 Speaker 1: having suicidal thoughts, support is available, for example, from the 4 00:00:35,650 --> 00:00:42,650 Speaker 1: nine eight to eight Suicide and Crisis Lifeline in the US. 5 00:00:44,970 --> 00:00:48,850 Speaker 1: Bill Hamilton is on his way to a funeral where 6 00:00:48,850 --> 00:00:53,490 Speaker 1: in London it's January nineteen seventy five. Hamilton is an 7 00:00:53,530 --> 00:00:57,410 Speaker 1: academic obscure to the general public, but well on his 8 00:00:57,490 --> 00:01:01,570 Speaker 1: way to becoming a superstar in his field. That field 9 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:06,810 Speaker 1: is evolution. Hamilton is a brilliant naturalist. Go with him 10 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:09,370 Speaker 1: on a walk and he'll tell you everything there is 11 00:01:09,410 --> 00:01:13,650 Speaker 1: to know about every plant, bird, and insect you encounter. 12 00:01:15,090 --> 00:01:19,970 Speaker 1: Hamilton is also a highly original thinker. He'll later be 13 00:01:20,010 --> 00:01:27,010 Speaker 1: described as the greatest Darwinian since Darwin himself. Bill Hamilton 14 00:01:27,290 --> 00:01:30,090 Speaker 1: can't help but feel a twinge of guilt about the 15 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:32,970 Speaker 1: death of the man whose funeral he's going to attend. 16 00:01:33,970 --> 00:01:37,690 Speaker 1: Could he have done more to prevent it? In some ways, 17 00:01:37,810 --> 00:01:40,930 Speaker 1: George Price had been a close and dear friend. He 18 00:01:40,970 --> 00:01:43,530 Speaker 1: had been staying at Hamilton's house just a couple of 19 00:01:43,530 --> 00:01:48,330 Speaker 1: weeks before his death. In other ways, though, how well 20 00:01:48,370 --> 00:01:53,210 Speaker 1: had anyone known George Price. Really, Price had been a 21 00:01:53,250 --> 00:02:01,810 Speaker 1: strange man, a very strange man. Indeed, Hamilton gets to 22 00:02:01,850 --> 00:02:05,930 Speaker 1: the funeral service, there are only a handful of mourners. 23 00:02:06,210 --> 00:02:10,850 Speaker 1: He recognizes one, a fellow, high powered academic who works 24 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:16,130 Speaker 1: on evolution and game theory. The other mourners are entirely different, 25 00:02:17,050 --> 00:02:22,570 Speaker 1: ruddy cheeked, shaggy haired, wearing old and grubby clothes, and 26 00:02:22,650 --> 00:02:28,610 Speaker 1: smelling of urine. They look like homeless drunks. That's because 27 00:02:28,890 --> 00:02:34,690 Speaker 1: they are homeless drunks. But they're standing quietly in respectful mourning. 28 00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:42,330 Speaker 1: Hamilton is moved by their obvious grief. These unfortunate people 29 00:02:42,610 --> 00:02:47,690 Speaker 1: must have really loved George Price. What sort of life 30 00:02:47,770 --> 00:02:49,810 Speaker 1: do you have to have lived to end up with 31 00:02:49,850 --> 00:02:54,450 Speaker 1: a funeral attended by these two types of people, distinguished 32 00:02:54,530 --> 00:03:00,970 Speaker 1: academic scientists and homeless drunks. I'm Tim Harford, and you're 33 00:03:01,010 --> 00:03:30,090 Speaker 1: listening to cautionary tales. As a young man, Bill Hamilton 34 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:35,170 Speaker 1: was mystified by altruistic behavior, something that incurs a cost 35 00:03:35,250 --> 00:03:40,730 Speaker 1: to you and benefits someone else. In human terms. Altruism 36 00:03:40,890 --> 00:03:43,170 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it ought to be much of a mystery. 37 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:47,770 Speaker 1: It's instinctive. It feels good to feed the hungry, give 38 00:03:47,850 --> 00:03:51,650 Speaker 1: shelter to the homeless, lend our coat to someone who's cold. 39 00:03:52,130 --> 00:03:55,730 Speaker 1: Asking why is liable to make you sound like a psychopath. 40 00:03:56,450 --> 00:04:00,290 Speaker 1: The obvious explanation is that deep down in human nature 41 00:04:00,810 --> 00:04:05,210 Speaker 1: there must be something good and pure and noble, the 42 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:08,730 Speaker 1: better angels of our nature. We'd like to think so. 43 00:04:10,850 --> 00:04:14,850 Speaker 1: But what about other kinds of animal? Here it starts 44 00:04:14,890 --> 00:04:19,530 Speaker 1: to get easier to understand why altruism mystified Bill Hamilton. 45 00:04:21,170 --> 00:04:24,970 Speaker 1: Take the ground squirrel, for example, a bunch of squirrels 46 00:04:25,010 --> 00:04:28,570 Speaker 1: about foraging for nuts when a hawk appears in the sky. 47 00:04:29,210 --> 00:04:33,290 Speaker 1: The squirrel who first spots the hawk instinctively squeaks out 48 00:04:33,410 --> 00:04:36,170 Speaker 1: to alert the other squirrels, who all scurry for cover. 49 00:04:37,810 --> 00:04:42,530 Speaker 1: That alarm call is an act of altruism. The squirrel 50 00:04:42,570 --> 00:04:46,650 Speaker 1: who calls out is attracting attention to herself as all 51 00:04:46,690 --> 00:04:49,610 Speaker 1: the other squirrels dash for safety, and the hawk looks 52 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:52,890 Speaker 1: to see where the squeak came from. The hawk is 53 00:04:52,970 --> 00:04:57,530 Speaker 1: quite likely to come after her. If instead the squirrel 54 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:02,410 Speaker 1: had reacted by quietly finding cover herself, she'd be more 55 00:05:02,530 --> 00:05:06,530 Speaker 1: likely to survive while the hawk attacked some other squirrel. 56 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:13,210 Speaker 1: So why doesn't she maybe it's because deep down in 57 00:05:13,330 --> 00:05:20,330 Speaker 1: squirrel nature there's something good and pure and noble. Maybe, 58 00:05:20,530 --> 00:05:23,570 Speaker 1: but it seems like a stretch. It's even more of 59 00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:25,730 Speaker 1: a stretch when you get to another creature that can 60 00:05:25,770 --> 00:05:32,970 Speaker 1: be surprisingly altruistic, the wasp. As an evolutionary biologist, Bill 61 00:05:33,050 --> 00:05:36,930 Speaker 1: Hamilton worked mostly with mathematics, but he loved to get 62 00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:43,650 Speaker 1: out in nature to study wasps or any kind of flying, crawling, buzzing, biting, 63 00:05:43,770 --> 00:05:48,930 Speaker 1: stinging things. On field trips in tropical locations, Hamilton was 64 00:05:48,970 --> 00:05:52,610 Speaker 1: notorious for seeking out random holes to plunge his hand 65 00:05:52,650 --> 00:05:58,050 Speaker 1: into to investigate what exotic insects might be lurking inside. 66 00:05:58,210 --> 00:06:01,210 Speaker 1: Every time I turned round, recalled a colleague, he'd be 67 00:06:01,210 --> 00:06:05,210 Speaker 1: climbing a tree or wading up a river. During one 68 00:06:05,250 --> 00:06:09,770 Speaker 1: expedition to Brazil, Hamilton spotted that an unfamiliar species of 69 00:06:09,930 --> 00:06:12,370 Speaker 1: wasp had built a nest in the middle of a 70 00:06:12,450 --> 00:06:16,010 Speaker 1: disused termite mound. He wanted to find out more about 71 00:06:16,010 --> 00:06:19,890 Speaker 1: this species, so he dug a two meter tunnel to 72 00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:25,090 Speaker 1: get into the nest from below. The worker wasps are 73 00:06:25,450 --> 00:06:30,250 Speaker 1: extremely fierce, reported Hamilton, and leave there's stings in human 74 00:06:30,330 --> 00:06:34,210 Speaker 1: flesh like honeybees. They jet venom, and this often reaches 75 00:06:34,250 --> 00:06:38,090 Speaker 1: the eyes. I was incapacitated for two days after my 76 00:06:38,210 --> 00:06:43,050 Speaker 1: first observation of this nest. Not but things like this 77 00:06:43,210 --> 00:06:46,770 Speaker 1: put him off. By the end of his career, Hamilton 78 00:06:46,850 --> 00:06:49,370 Speaker 1: reckoned he must have been stung by at least a 79 00:06:49,570 --> 00:06:55,570 Speaker 1: thousand different species of wasp, but all that lay ahead. 80 00:06:56,290 --> 00:07:00,170 Speaker 1: As a young student at Cambridge University in the nineteen fifties, 81 00:07:00,450 --> 00:07:05,010 Speaker 1: Hamilton wanted to understand in general terms, the altruism of 82 00:07:05,130 --> 00:07:09,530 Speaker 1: worker wasps. In some wasp species, they devote their lives 83 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:13,570 Speaker 1: to protecting their queen. Only the queen gets to breed. 84 00:07:14,090 --> 00:07:18,290 Speaker 1: The workers never have offspring of their own. In evolutionary terms, 85 00:07:18,810 --> 00:07:23,170 Speaker 1: it's quite the sacrifice. Why do the worker wasps do it? 86 00:07:25,770 --> 00:07:30,650 Speaker 1: When young Hamilton asked his Cambridge professors that question, the 87 00:07:30,650 --> 00:07:33,690 Speaker 1: professors didn't think it was a puzzle at all. They 88 00:07:33,770 --> 00:07:37,930 Speaker 1: simply shrugged. Obviously, the wasps are acting for the good 89 00:07:37,970 --> 00:07:41,610 Speaker 1: of the species. And the squirrel who raises an alarm 90 00:07:41,650 --> 00:07:45,850 Speaker 1: when a predator appears, Oh, she's serving the group of 91 00:07:45,890 --> 00:07:49,210 Speaker 1: squirrels to which she belongs, and that must help the 92 00:07:49,250 --> 00:07:53,330 Speaker 1: group to compete with other groups. That seemed like woolly 93 00:07:53,450 --> 00:07:58,530 Speaker 1: thinking to Bill. He thought natural selection works on individuals, 94 00:07:59,330 --> 00:08:04,010 Speaker 1: not groups or species. A squirrel who quietly hid when 95 00:08:04,010 --> 00:08:06,650 Speaker 1: she saw a hawk would have a better chance of 96 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:10,970 Speaker 1: surviving than a squirrel who so helplessly raised the alarm. 97 00:08:11,410 --> 00:08:16,370 Speaker 1: But expect the genes for quiet hiding to spread. Yet 98 00:08:16,370 --> 00:08:19,490 Speaker 1: it was the genes for alarm raising that had won out. 99 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:28,490 Speaker 1: Why Hamilton was determined to solve the mystery, but he 100 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:32,530 Speaker 1: found it hard to get funding for postgraduate research when 101 00:08:32,530 --> 00:08:34,930 Speaker 1: nobody else even agreed with him that there was any 102 00:08:35,050 --> 00:08:40,370 Speaker 1: mystery to be solved. Hamilton later recalled, at times I 103 00:08:40,490 --> 00:08:43,170 Speaker 1: was sure I saw something that others had not seen. 104 00:08:43,810 --> 00:08:46,490 Speaker 1: At others I felt equally certain that I must be 105 00:08:46,570 --> 00:08:50,610 Speaker 1: a crank. How could it be that respected academics around 106 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:54,290 Speaker 1: me would not see the interest of studying altruism along 107 00:08:54,290 --> 00:08:57,490 Speaker 1: my lines unless it were true that my enterprise were 108 00:08:57,530 --> 00:08:59,930 Speaker 1: bogus in some way that was obvious to all of 109 00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:05,570 Speaker 1: them but not to me. Hamilton managed to find some 110 00:09:05,690 --> 00:09:10,210 Speaker 1: funds and an academic to supervise his PhD, a mathematical 111 00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:14,730 Speaker 1: geneticist at the Galton Laboratory in London, not that even 112 00:09:14,770 --> 00:09:17,530 Speaker 1: his supervisor really got what he was trying to achieve. 113 00:09:17,610 --> 00:09:22,650 Speaker 1: At first, most of the time, Hamilton recalled, I was 114 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:28,730 Speaker 1: extremely lonely in the evenings when London's libraries closed for 115 00:09:28,770 --> 00:09:32,250 Speaker 1: the night. He couldn't face going back to his dingy 116 00:09:32,330 --> 00:09:35,410 Speaker 1: rented room, so he sat on a bench in a 117 00:09:35,490 --> 00:09:39,290 Speaker 1: railway station just for the sense of having people around 118 00:09:39,330 --> 00:09:45,530 Speaker 1: him while he scribbled equations in his note book. Finally, 119 00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:50,170 Speaker 1: Hamilton got his ideas in order, but who might be 120 00:09:50,210 --> 00:09:54,850 Speaker 1: willing to publish them? He tried the prestigious journal Nature 121 00:09:55,490 --> 00:09:59,770 Speaker 1: and got rejected out of hand. His supervisor reckoned. His 122 00:09:59,890 --> 00:10:04,210 Speaker 1: best chance was an obscure new publication, the Journal of 123 00:10:04,330 --> 00:10:16,210 Speaker 1: Theoretical Biology. Hamilton sent his manuscript off. George Price had 124 00:10:16,370 --> 00:10:21,490 Speaker 1: often seemed on the verge of achieving something brilliant, but 125 00:10:21,610 --> 00:10:26,890 Speaker 1: somehow nothing ever quite worked out. Price got a degree 126 00:10:26,930 --> 00:10:30,370 Speaker 1: in chemistry from the University of Chicago during the Second 127 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:34,170 Speaker 1: World War and went straight to work on the Manhattan Project, 128 00:10:34,730 --> 00:10:41,410 Speaker 1: then Harvard, then Bell Labs. He wrote big think articles 129 00:10:41,410 --> 00:10:46,050 Speaker 1: for popular magazines. One was about game theory and the 130 00:10:46,130 --> 00:10:50,570 Speaker 1: nuclear threat from the Soviet Union. A publisher was impressed 131 00:10:50,930 --> 00:10:54,930 Speaker 1: and offered George in advance to write a book. George 132 00:10:55,050 --> 00:10:58,850 Speaker 1: took the money, but somehow never quite managed to finish 133 00:10:58,890 --> 00:11:04,810 Speaker 1: the book. Another article imagined a futuristic design machine that 134 00:11:04,930 --> 00:11:08,530 Speaker 1: might speed up invention. It looks a lot like what 135 00:11:08,530 --> 00:11:12,890 Speaker 1: we've now got, a computer aided design. Was it really 136 00:11:12,930 --> 00:11:17,610 Speaker 1: a practical possibility? Yes, said George. He followed up his 137 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:21,690 Speaker 1: magazine piece with a more detailed technical proposal based on 138 00:11:21,850 --> 00:11:27,610 Speaker 1: existing IBM computers ahead of. IBM's research department was impressed 139 00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:33,570 Speaker 1: and offered George a job, but IBM wouldn't categorically commit 140 00:11:33,810 --> 00:11:38,930 Speaker 1: to making George's design machine, so George said no. He'd 141 00:11:39,090 --> 00:11:44,130 Speaker 1: patent his idea himself. But he hadn't looked into patenting 142 00:11:44,570 --> 00:11:48,930 Speaker 1: before he turned down IBM, and when he did, he 143 00:11:49,010 --> 00:11:53,410 Speaker 1: discovered that he couldn't afford a patent lawyer. With George Price, 144 00:11:54,250 --> 00:12:03,370 Speaker 1: nothing was ever straightforward. George married a devout Roman Catholic. 145 00:12:03,930 --> 00:12:08,490 Speaker 1: He was an equally avid atheist. This isn't going to last, 146 00:12:09,210 --> 00:12:15,090 Speaker 1: George's friends. The couple had two daughters and argued about 147 00:12:15,090 --> 00:12:18,890 Speaker 1: how to raise them. His wife had been educated by 148 00:12:19,010 --> 00:12:23,610 Speaker 1: nuns at Sacred Heart. George told her, I'd rather our 149 00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:27,490 Speaker 1: daughters grow up to be prostitutes than nuns. His wife 150 00:12:27,770 --> 00:12:34,610 Speaker 1: divorced him. George struggled to afford the alimony. Then there 151 00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:39,010 Speaker 1: was George's health. Doctors found a tumor in his thyroid. 152 00:12:39,490 --> 00:12:42,690 Speaker 1: It would have to come out, but the operation went wrong. 153 00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:45,810 Speaker 1: It left him numb in parts of his face and 154 00:12:45,930 --> 00:12:50,930 Speaker 1: with limited use of an arm. By nineteen sixty seven, 155 00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:56,050 Speaker 1: George was forty five years old. His professional life had 156 00:12:56,090 --> 00:13:02,290 Speaker 1: been a disappointment, his personal life a disaster. But there 157 00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:05,610 Speaker 1: was one bit of good news. He had just won 158 00:13:05,770 --> 00:13:10,770 Speaker 1: an insurance payout over his botched operation. He still felt 159 00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:14,970 Speaker 1: sure he had some brilliant achievement within him. He decided 160 00:13:15,130 --> 00:13:18,410 Speaker 1: on a fresh start. He'd moved to London and live 161 00:13:18,450 --> 00:13:20,810 Speaker 1: on his insurance money while he took some time out 162 00:13:20,850 --> 00:13:23,890 Speaker 1: to read. Surely he'd come up with some kind of 163 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:30,050 Speaker 1: brilliant idea about something. George wrote to his teenage daughters. 164 00:13:30,530 --> 00:13:33,330 Speaker 1: I've seen quite a lot of London so far, including 165 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:37,850 Speaker 1: the British Museum Library, Museum of Natural History Library, the 166 00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:42,290 Speaker 1: University of London Library, the University College Library, the Welcome 167 00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:46,810 Speaker 1: Historical Medical Library, and Science and Technology Library. Soon I 168 00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:49,570 Speaker 1: hoped to visit the Royal College of Surgeon's Library and 169 00:13:49,770 --> 00:13:54,890 Speaker 1: Royal Zoological Society Library. In one of the libraries in 170 00:13:54,930 --> 00:13:59,930 Speaker 1: an obscure publication called the Journal of Theoretical Biology. George 171 00:13:59,970 --> 00:14:05,290 Speaker 1: Price happened upon an article by someone called Bill Hamilton. 172 00:14:07,290 --> 00:14:14,450 Speaker 1: George was profoundly shocked. Surely Hamilton's ideas couldn't be right. 173 00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:26,730 Speaker 1: We'll hear what those ideas were after the break. If 174 00:14:26,730 --> 00:14:31,730 Speaker 1: you wanted to understand Bill Hamilton's ideas, Bill Hamilton might 175 00:14:31,770 --> 00:14:35,650 Speaker 1: have been the worst person to ask. Hamilton was an 176 00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:40,410 Speaker 1: original thinker, but a terrible lecturer, notorious for standing with 177 00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:44,770 Speaker 1: his back to the audience, mumbling inaudibly while he scribbled 178 00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:50,490 Speaker 1: equations on a blackboard. Here's one description of a Hamilton performance. 179 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:55,410 Speaker 1: He lectured for a full forty five minutes without yet 180 00:14:55,410 --> 00:14:57,890 Speaker 1: getting to the point. When he realized that he was 181 00:14:57,930 --> 00:15:00,410 Speaker 1: five minutes over time and still had not gotten to 182 00:15:00,450 --> 00:15:03,330 Speaker 1: the point, or indeed very near it, he asked if 183 00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,810 Speaker 1: he could have some more time and called for slides. 184 00:15:06,850 --> 00:15:09,410 Speaker 1: The room went dark and there was a rum an, 185 00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:12,370 Speaker 1: a roaring sound as about ninety percent of the audience 186 00:15:12,410 --> 00:15:15,930 Speaker 1: took this opportunity to exit the room for some fresh air. 187 00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:24,370 Speaker 1: Some students were nearly trampled. Years later, another evolutionary biologist 188 00:15:24,530 --> 00:15:29,330 Speaker 1: translated Bill Hamilton's ideas into understandable language. In a book 189 00:15:29,490 --> 00:15:34,850 Speaker 1: that became a best seller, The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins, 190 00:15:35,890 --> 00:15:40,650 Speaker 1: this is what Bill Hamilton had realized. Behavior that looks 191 00:15:40,810 --> 00:15:44,330 Speaker 1: altruistic from the point of view of an individual can 192 00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:49,570 Speaker 1: look self interested from the point of view of a gene. 193 00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:53,610 Speaker 1: Remember the noble squirrel who squeaks out a warning when 194 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:57,290 Speaker 1: she sees a predator. She puts herself at risk that 195 00:15:57,410 --> 00:16:01,410 Speaker 1: gives the other squirrels a better chance of escaping. If 196 00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:04,890 Speaker 1: she's related to those other squirrels, that means they're going 197 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:08,930 Speaker 1: to share some of her genes, including any genes that 198 00:16:09,130 --> 00:16:13,570 Speaker 1: predispose her to squeak when she sees a predator. If 199 00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:16,650 Speaker 1: the risk of raising the alarm is outweighed by the 200 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:21,370 Speaker 1: chance of saving enough related squirrels, the alarm raising genes 201 00:16:21,410 --> 00:16:27,330 Speaker 1: can spread. It all came down to mathematics about risks 202 00:16:27,370 --> 00:16:32,730 Speaker 1: and costs and benefits and degrees of genetic relatedness. Wasps 203 00:16:32,810 --> 00:16:37,450 Speaker 1: can be related in unusual ways, with worker wasps sharing 204 00:16:37,530 --> 00:16:40,570 Speaker 1: more genes with the offspring of their queen than they 205 00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:44,450 Speaker 1: would with any offspring of their own. From the gene's 206 00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:47,250 Speaker 1: point of view, it makes perfect sense for the worker 207 00:16:47,410 --> 00:16:50,730 Speaker 1: wasps to give up on reproducing themselves and help the 208 00:16:50,810 --> 00:16:55,730 Speaker 1: queen to reproduce instead. Hamilton's paper and the Journal of 209 00:16:55,850 --> 00:17:00,570 Speaker 1: Theoretical Biology showed how a gene's eye view could explain 210 00:17:00,850 --> 00:17:05,570 Speaker 1: altruistic behavior in a range of species. The squirrel and 211 00:17:05,610 --> 00:17:08,650 Speaker 1: the wasps aren't acting for the good of the species 212 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:11,690 Speaker 1: or the good of the group. They're not acting in 213 00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:17,170 Speaker 1: their own individual interests either. Instead, they are playthings of 214 00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:27,690 Speaker 1: their genes. When Charles Darwin published his Theory of Evolution 215 00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:32,930 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty nine, it shocked members of polite society. 216 00:17:33,930 --> 00:17:38,410 Speaker 1: One much repeated story has two upper class ladies discussing 217 00:17:38,530 --> 00:17:43,370 Speaker 1: Darwin's book. Mister Darwin says, we are descended from the apes, 218 00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:47,890 Speaker 1: says one. Let us hope it isn't true. But if 219 00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:51,210 Speaker 1: it is true, says the other, let us pray that 220 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:55,930 Speaker 1: it does not become generally known. Bill Hamilton's paper had 221 00:17:56,050 --> 00:18:00,330 Speaker 1: much the same effect on George Price. Sitting in a 222 00:18:00,370 --> 00:18:05,650 Speaker 1: library in London, Price thought about what Hamilton's ideas implied. 223 00:18:06,530 --> 00:18:09,210 Speaker 1: If the self interest of genes could account for for 224 00:18:09,370 --> 00:18:14,770 Speaker 1: altruistic seeming behavior in wasps and squirrels, it might explain 225 00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:20,850 Speaker 1: altruistic instincts in humans too. Maybe deep down in human 226 00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:26,490 Speaker 1: nature there wasn't something good and pure and noble. After all, 227 00:18:27,410 --> 00:18:32,450 Speaker 1: the thought seemed deeply depressing to George Price, but it 228 00:18:32,610 --> 00:18:36,570 Speaker 1: also seemed to Price that he had found his opportunity 229 00:18:37,010 --> 00:18:40,970 Speaker 1: to do something brilliant. He was going to prove Bill 230 00:18:41,050 --> 00:18:46,050 Speaker 1: Hamilton wrong. There was just one problem. Price didn't know 231 00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:50,170 Speaker 1: any of the necessary mathematics, but he had time on 232 00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:57,690 Speaker 1: his hands. Maybe he could learn. In September nineteen sixty eight, 233 00:18:58,530 --> 00:19:01,730 Speaker 1: George Price knocked on the door of the Galton Laboratory 234 00:19:01,770 --> 00:19:05,250 Speaker 1: in London. He didn't know anyone at the Galton Laboratory. 235 00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:07,770 Speaker 1: He just thought it would be the type of place 236 00:19:07,850 --> 00:19:10,930 Speaker 1: that might contain some one wou'd be able to understand 237 00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:16,130 Speaker 1: what he'd been working on. Price said, I've got an 238 00:19:16,210 --> 00:19:19,570 Speaker 1: equation I'd like to show someone. I think it might 239 00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:24,050 Speaker 1: be important, but it's very simple, so simple, I find 240 00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:27,770 Speaker 1: it hard to believe that nobody's discovered it before. That's 241 00:19:27,810 --> 00:19:30,450 Speaker 1: why I want an expert to take a look. Have 242 00:19:30,570 --> 00:19:35,450 Speaker 1: you got a mathematical geneticist I can talk to imagine 243 00:19:35,490 --> 00:19:38,530 Speaker 1: how that must have looked. An American man in his 244 00:19:38,650 --> 00:19:43,970 Speaker 1: mid forties with no relevant academic credentials turns up brandishing 245 00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:48,770 Speaker 1: an equation. What are the chances that it actually is important? 246 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:51,570 Speaker 1: And what are the chances that the man is a crank? 247 00:19:52,730 --> 00:19:55,970 Speaker 1: But as it happened, the Galton Laboratory did have a 248 00:19:56,010 --> 00:20:00,090 Speaker 1: mathematical geneticist who'd be willing to see George Price, the 249 00:20:00,130 --> 00:20:05,130 Speaker 1: professor who had once supervised Bill Hamilton. The professor looked 250 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:12,170 Speaker 1: at Price's equation. It was indeed simple, but hm, it 251 00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:19,170 Speaker 1: was elegant. It was interesting, very interesting, and no, the 252 00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:24,090 Speaker 1: professor assured George, nobody had discovered it before. In fact, 253 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:27,930 Speaker 1: he'd never seen anything like it. He'd certainly like to 254 00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:30,090 Speaker 1: see what you might be able to do with that equation. 255 00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:36,490 Speaker 1: On the spot, he offered George a job. George must 256 00:20:36,570 --> 00:20:40,370 Speaker 1: have had mixed feelings. On the one hand, he now 257 00:20:40,410 --> 00:20:44,690 Speaker 1: had an office and an income. This was wonderful and 258 00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:49,210 Speaker 1: totally unexpected, he wrote home to his mother. On the 259 00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:53,010 Speaker 1: other hand, he had wanted to prove Bill Hamilton wrong, 260 00:20:54,010 --> 00:20:58,370 Speaker 1: but the equation he had discovered did quite the opposite. 261 00:20:58,530 --> 00:21:06,250 Speaker 1: It showed that Hamilton's ideas were essentially correct. From his 262 00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:10,730 Speaker 1: new position at the Galton Laboratory, Price sent his equation 263 00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:15,250 Speaker 1: to Bill Hamilton. Hamilton was now working at a university's 264 00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:19,970 Speaker 1: field station in the countryside outside London. He understood at 265 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:24,290 Speaker 1: once what Price had done, and was amazed by it. 266 00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:29,370 Speaker 1: Price had approached Hamilton's work using a branch of mathematics 267 00:21:29,410 --> 00:21:34,970 Speaker 1: that Hamilton had never even considered. Because Price hadn't studied biology, 268 00:21:35,250 --> 00:21:40,170 Speaker 1: he hadn't used the mathematical techniques which biologists learn. Instead, 269 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:44,890 Speaker 1: he tried to work everything out from first principles. He'd 270 00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:50,170 Speaker 1: taught himself a mathematical approach called covariance analysis. The equation 271 00:21:50,290 --> 00:21:53,490 Speaker 1: he'd come up with was a simple depiction of how 272 00:21:53,610 --> 00:21:57,490 Speaker 1: a gene's prevalence changes from one generation to the next. 273 00:21:58,690 --> 00:22:02,770 Speaker 1: It's not that Price had discovered something new exactly. He'd 274 00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:04,730 Speaker 1: come up with a new way of looking at things. 275 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:08,610 Speaker 1: It was as if Bill Hamilton had scaled a mountain 276 00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:12,370 Speaker 1: and George Price had shown him there was an easier 277 00:22:12,410 --> 00:22:16,770 Speaker 1: way up the other side, a new road, wrote Hamilton, 278 00:22:17,370 --> 00:22:24,130 Speaker 1: amid startling landscapes. Hamilton used Price his mathematics to reformulate 279 00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:28,490 Speaker 1: all his results in a vastly more economical and appropriate way. 280 00:22:29,450 --> 00:22:32,530 Speaker 1: He sent it off to Nature, the prestigious journal that 281 00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:37,370 Speaker 1: had rejected his earlier paper. This time they said yes, 282 00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:43,570 Speaker 1: Price's mathematics were not only clearer, but more general. They 283 00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:47,770 Speaker 1: helped to frame debate among biologists about cases where group 284 00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:52,290 Speaker 1: selection might still play a role in evolution. As they 285 00:22:52,370 --> 00:22:58,010 Speaker 1: explored the implications of Price's equation, Bill and George became friends. 286 00:22:59,290 --> 00:23:02,810 Speaker 1: It seemed to Bill, he wrote that George was like 287 00:23:02,930 --> 00:23:09,250 Speaker 1: his second self. On the face of it, George Price's 288 00:23:09,290 --> 00:23:13,930 Speaker 1: start in London had been an astonishing success. It wasn't 289 00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:18,490 Speaker 1: just his equation. He tried applying ideas from game theory 290 00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:21,410 Speaker 1: to evolution, just as he had once used them to 291 00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:24,930 Speaker 1: analyze the threat from the Soviets. It turned out to 292 00:23:24,970 --> 00:23:29,090 Speaker 1: be a rich source of insights. Other biologists started to 293 00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:34,090 Speaker 1: get into game theory too, but with George Price, nothing 294 00:23:34,330 --> 00:23:39,650 Speaker 1: was ever straightforward. One day, George told Bill that he'd 295 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:43,650 Speaker 1: been thinking, how on earth had he come up with 296 00:23:43,730 --> 00:23:48,170 Speaker 1: his equation? After all, he said, when I came across 297 00:23:48,210 --> 00:23:52,170 Speaker 1: your paper, I didn't know a covariance from a coconut. 298 00:23:53,370 --> 00:23:57,530 Speaker 1: Yet somehow he'd taught himself just the right kind of 299 00:23:57,610 --> 00:24:02,730 Speaker 1: mathematical technique to discover something that was simple and powerful, 300 00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:07,490 Speaker 1: and that other brilliant minds had missed for decades. It 301 00:24:07,530 --> 00:24:13,010 Speaker 1: was a miracle. Bill assumed that George must be talking figuratively, 302 00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:20,410 Speaker 1: but no, George was deadly serious. Truly, it was a miracle. 303 00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:25,130 Speaker 1: God had deemed that humans were ready to hear this 304 00:24:25,290 --> 00:24:30,490 Speaker 1: truth about evolution, and God had chosen him, George Price, 305 00:24:31,050 --> 00:24:38,490 Speaker 1: to pass on this truth. George Price, the lifelong atheist, 306 00:24:39,370 --> 00:24:43,370 Speaker 1: had found religion. He would now devote his life to 307 00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:48,130 Speaker 1: doing whatever God wanted him to do. And what God 308 00:24:48,170 --> 00:24:52,490 Speaker 1: wanted him to do, he decided, must be an altruist, 309 00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:59,330 Speaker 1: the most extreme kind of altruist he could possibly imagine. 310 00:24:59,610 --> 00:25:10,530 Speaker 1: Cautionary tales, will be back after the break. George Price 311 00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:15,170 Speaker 1: had a vision of Jesus, in which Jesus said to him, 312 00:25:15,730 --> 00:25:19,730 Speaker 1: give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes 313 00:25:19,770 --> 00:25:24,650 Speaker 1: away what is yours, do not demand it back, right, 314 00:25:24,970 --> 00:25:29,210 Speaker 1: thought George. He began to seek out the seedier streets 315 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:33,890 Speaker 1: and squares of central London and introduce himself to homeless people. 316 00:25:35,050 --> 00:25:38,130 Speaker 1: My name is George. Is there any way I can 317 00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:42,890 Speaker 1: help you? Yes, said some of those people. You can 318 00:25:42,930 --> 00:25:46,330 Speaker 1: give me money, you can buy me a sandwich. You 319 00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:48,410 Speaker 1: can invite me back to your home to sleep for 320 00:25:48,450 --> 00:25:53,970 Speaker 1: the night. George did, and they stayed, and he gave 321 00:25:54,010 --> 00:25:58,770 Speaker 1: them keys. Soon his flat was filled with homeless guests. 322 00:25:59,810 --> 00:26:04,610 Speaker 1: Most were alcoholics, some had recently been released from mental asylums. 323 00:26:05,170 --> 00:26:09,410 Speaker 1: Others were ex convicts or on the run, which his 324 00:26:09,410 --> 00:26:14,530 Speaker 1: friends were concerned. Don't worry, George told them. If I'm 325 00:26:14,570 --> 00:26:20,410 Speaker 1: obeying Jesus, he will protect me from serious harm. When 326 00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:24,090 Speaker 1: the lease on George's flat ran out, George's guests were 327 00:26:24,130 --> 00:26:28,770 Speaker 1: homeless again, as was George. He'd been thinking he should 328 00:26:28,810 --> 00:26:33,130 Speaker 1: probably rent somewhere else, somewhere bigger, but somehow he hadn't 329 00:26:33,210 --> 00:26:36,970 Speaker 1: quite got around to it. He started sleeping in his 330 00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:40,570 Speaker 1: office at the Galton Laboratory, though he wasn't there much 331 00:26:40,650 --> 00:26:43,250 Speaker 1: during the day. As he explained in a letter to 332 00:26:43,330 --> 00:26:47,490 Speaker 1: his brother, A substantial amount of my time is given 333 00:26:47,730 --> 00:26:50,170 Speaker 1: trying to help people in almost any way they asked me, 334 00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:55,050 Speaker 1: wrote George, whether it's by giving them money, cleaning a 335 00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:59,010 Speaker 1: filthy kitchen, or trying to solve some mathematical problem for 336 00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:03,130 Speaker 1: somebody here at work. Many times I find myself produced 337 00:27:03,170 --> 00:27:07,650 Speaker 1: to one penny, a halfpenny, or zero. Most of my 338 00:27:07,730 --> 00:27:11,530 Speaker 1: possessions have been given a including my coat. But I'll 339 00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:13,650 Speaker 1: have to pick up a coat somewhere now with winter 340 00:27:13,690 --> 00:27:22,130 Speaker 1: coming on. In nineteen seventy three, the prestigious journal Nature 341 00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:26,170 Speaker 1: put on its front cover an article about game theory 342 00:27:26,290 --> 00:27:30,010 Speaker 1: and evolution, co authored by George and a colleague at 343 00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:35,450 Speaker 1: the Galton Laboratory. It was quite a coupe, but living 344 00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:39,010 Speaker 1: at the Galton was becoming difficult. One of the people 345 00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:42,210 Speaker 1: George was trying to help was a woman who wanted 346 00:27:42,250 --> 00:27:46,370 Speaker 1: to hide from her abusive partner. Now the partner had 347 00:27:46,410 --> 00:27:49,970 Speaker 1: turned up at the Galton, drunk and aggressive, yelling up 348 00:27:50,010 --> 00:27:53,410 Speaker 1: at George's window, where is she? What have you done 349 00:27:53,450 --> 00:27:57,610 Speaker 1: with her? The man smashed a bicycle lamper, grabbed someone's 350 00:27:57,650 --> 00:28:01,770 Speaker 1: satchel through the papers over the pavement, then unzipped his 351 00:28:01,810 --> 00:28:05,970 Speaker 1: trousers and took a piss on the front steps. George 352 00:28:05,970 --> 00:28:10,810 Speaker 1: wrote optimistically to his daughter, I expect that one cover 353 00:28:10,930 --> 00:28:15,210 Speaker 1: illustrated article in Nature compensates for one urination at the 354 00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:20,370 Speaker 1: entrance to the building. But George was overestimating the patience 355 00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:24,090 Speaker 1: of the Galton. They told him this had gone too far. 356 00:28:24,730 --> 00:28:28,850 Speaker 1: He'd have to find somewhere else to sleep. He found 357 00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:32,010 Speaker 1: a room in a squat in a derelict old building 358 00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:37,090 Speaker 1: in central London. Gradually he stopped going to the Galton 359 00:28:37,330 --> 00:28:44,890 Speaker 1: at all. Bill Hamilton had shown how altruism could evolve 360 00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:50,850 Speaker 1: among relatives. Now another biologist, using game theory showed how 361 00:28:50,850 --> 00:28:54,410 Speaker 1: it could evolve among non relatives too. But if you 362 00:28:54,490 --> 00:28:58,730 Speaker 1: hope for something good and pure and noble in human nature, 363 00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:04,130 Speaker 1: this new idea of reciprocal altruism wasn't going to help you. 364 00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:08,210 Speaker 1: Broadly speaking, you do a favor for someone when they're 365 00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:11,250 Speaker 1: in need, then they return the favor when you're in need. 366 00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:15,770 Speaker 1: The evolution of friendship is firmly rooted in the self 367 00:29:15,850 --> 00:29:19,690 Speaker 1: interest of the genes. It was all a far cry 368 00:29:19,810 --> 00:29:22,890 Speaker 1: from what the vision of Jesus had whispered to George. 369 00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:27,690 Speaker 1: Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes 370 00:29:27,730 --> 00:29:32,730 Speaker 1: away what is yours, do not demand it back. That 371 00:29:33,170 --> 00:29:39,410 Speaker 1: was pure altruism. But was it realistic? One of the 372 00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:44,770 Speaker 1: former guests at George's flat didn't think so. Smoky had 373 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:48,890 Speaker 1: been in and out of prison thirty times. Now he 374 00:29:49,050 --> 00:29:52,250 Speaker 1: was back in again. He wrote to George with some 375 00:29:52,410 --> 00:29:57,330 Speaker 1: friendly advice. Stop going out on the streets to seek 376 00:29:57,370 --> 00:30:03,090 Speaker 1: out homeless drunks. These people have no respect for you, 377 00:30:03,530 --> 00:30:08,770 Speaker 1: wrote Smokey. All they want is money and drink. You 378 00:30:08,890 --> 00:30:13,850 Speaker 1: have consider yourself now and again. Smokey might not have 379 00:30:13,890 --> 00:30:18,450 Speaker 1: studied game theory, but he clearly intuitively felt that George's 380 00:30:18,610 --> 00:30:24,570 Speaker 1: altruism made no sense without the promise of reciprocity. Do 381 00:30:24,650 --> 00:30:28,930 Speaker 1: they worry about you, he asked, when you're broken hungry? 382 00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:32,330 Speaker 1: I doubt it very much. Give them half the chance 383 00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:36,730 Speaker 1: and they would squeeze you dry. Smokey signed off this 384 00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:40,530 Speaker 1: piece of wisdom with a request for cash, when George replied, 385 00:30:41,290 --> 00:30:46,690 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen pounds if you can manage. Bill Hamilton 386 00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:49,690 Speaker 1: lived in the countryside now, but he sought George out 387 00:30:49,690 --> 00:30:54,090 Speaker 1: when he came to London. He was shocked. George was 388 00:30:54,370 --> 00:30:58,810 Speaker 1: stick thin his teeth. We was starting to rot. Come 389 00:30:58,810 --> 00:31:04,210 Speaker 1: and visit me, said Bill. George did in December nineteen 390 00:31:04,330 --> 00:31:08,010 Speaker 1: seventy four. Bill showed him the papers he was working 391 00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:12,890 Speaker 1: on using Jawdge's co variance mathematics. Come back to work, 392 00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:18,770 Speaker 1: said Bill. Let's do a project together. George seemed enthusiastic. 393 00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:23,450 Speaker 1: Bill had flights booked with his wife to visit the 394 00:31:23,490 --> 00:31:27,010 Speaker 1: in laws for Christmas, but he made George promise to 395 00:31:27,090 --> 00:31:33,010 Speaker 1: come back in January and stay again. Instead, Bill returned 396 00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:37,530 Speaker 1: to a letter from the police in London. His name 397 00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:42,010 Speaker 1: had been found on some papers in a squat left 398 00:31:42,090 --> 00:31:47,170 Speaker 1: by a man who'd killed himself. A man called George Price. 399 00:31:49,090 --> 00:31:52,330 Speaker 1: Bill went to collect the papers. He walked up the 400 00:31:52,330 --> 00:31:55,850 Speaker 1: stairs and the derelict building to the room where George 401 00:31:55,850 --> 00:32:00,050 Speaker 1: had been living. A light bulb hung from the ceiling. 402 00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:05,970 Speaker 1: The window was broken, patched up with brown tape. There 403 00:32:05,970 --> 00:32:11,210 Speaker 1: was a mattress, cardboard, boxes filled with papers, and dried 404 00:32:11,370 --> 00:32:20,570 Speaker 1: blood on the floor. George Price had been deeply shocked 405 00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:25,250 Speaker 1: by the idea that altruistic instincts might be explained by 406 00:32:25,250 --> 00:32:29,730 Speaker 1: the self interest of genes. Then he had become a 407 00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:35,410 Speaker 1: religious convert, apparently determined to prove that altruism can be 408 00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:41,290 Speaker 1: good and pure and noble. It's impossible not to see 409 00:32:41,290 --> 00:32:47,170 Speaker 1: a connection. Still, though George Price's story isn't quite that neat, 410 00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:52,730 Speaker 1: his altruism was part of a wider mental breakdown that's 411 00:32:52,770 --> 00:32:54,650 Speaker 1: clear when you look at some of the other things 412 00:32:54,730 --> 00:32:59,010 Speaker 1: George was convinced God wanted him to do. To start with, 413 00:32:59,450 --> 00:33:01,970 Speaker 1: marry the eighteen year old daughter of one of his 414 00:33:02,010 --> 00:33:06,650 Speaker 1: old friends. When the horrified girl said no, he decided 415 00:33:06,650 --> 00:33:08,890 Speaker 1: God wanted him to marry a woman he'd met once 416 00:33:08,890 --> 00:33:13,810 Speaker 1: a lecture. When she said no, and he persisted, and 417 00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:17,730 Speaker 1: she told him never to contact her again. He warned 418 00:33:17,770 --> 00:33:22,330 Speaker 1: her that the devil was leading her astray. Then George 419 00:33:22,330 --> 00:33:26,410 Speaker 1: decided God wanted him to remarry his ex wife, the 420 00:33:26,490 --> 00:33:30,090 Speaker 1: mother of his daughters. He wrote her a letter to propose. 421 00:33:30,970 --> 00:33:33,090 Speaker 1: I can understand if you don't want to have anything 422 00:33:33,130 --> 00:33:36,810 Speaker 1: to do with me. I'm not in very good condition physically. 423 00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:42,090 Speaker 1: My financial condition is rather uncertain. On the positive side, 424 00:33:42,810 --> 00:33:48,090 Speaker 1: you would find me much kinder than before. As George 425 00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:53,210 Speaker 1: increasingly spiraled, he decided to stop taking his medication. The 426 00:33:53,250 --> 00:33:57,330 Speaker 1: medication he needed to replace the thyroid hormone, since it 427 00:33:57,490 --> 00:34:02,810 Speaker 1: had his thyroid removed. He reasoned that if God still 428 00:34:02,890 --> 00:34:06,370 Speaker 1: had plans for him, God would find a way to 429 00:34:06,490 --> 00:34:13,010 Speaker 1: get the medication into him. George collapsed and was taken 430 00:34:13,090 --> 00:34:16,690 Speaker 1: to hospital. By the time he woke up, a doctor 431 00:34:16,690 --> 00:34:20,130 Speaker 1: had run tests and given him the medicine he needed. 432 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:26,730 Speaker 1: To George, it seemed like a miracle. Shortly before his death, 433 00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:32,730 Speaker 1: George stopped taking his medicine again. Perhaps that was another test, 434 00:34:33,570 --> 00:34:37,610 Speaker 1: and perhaps this time he concluded that God was choosing 435 00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:46,090 Speaker 1: not to intervene. George Price was killed by his mental illness, 436 00:34:46,130 --> 00:34:50,490 Speaker 1: not his mathematics, But it isn't hard to see why 437 00:34:50,650 --> 00:34:54,570 Speaker 1: Price thought there was something dark about what his own 438 00:34:54,650 --> 00:34:58,970 Speaker 1: equation helped to prove. When we feel an instinct to 439 00:34:59,090 --> 00:35:02,890 Speaker 1: feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, or lend 440 00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:06,890 Speaker 1: our coat to someone who's cold, maybe that's not the 441 00:35:06,890 --> 00:35:11,210 Speaker 1: better angels of our nature talking. It's our selfish genes 442 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:16,890 Speaker 1: shaped by untold generations, of helping our distant cousins or 443 00:35:17,130 --> 00:35:22,850 Speaker 1: having our favors repaid. But is the idea really that 444 00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:30,690 Speaker 1: depressing evolution? After all, has given us something else, rational minds. 445 00:35:31,850 --> 00:35:36,090 Speaker 1: We can use our rational minds to transcend our selfish genes. 446 00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:40,410 Speaker 1: We can think our way to being good and pure 447 00:35:40,770 --> 00:35:47,010 Speaker 1: and noble if we choose, can't we. In the next 448 00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:53,490 Speaker 1: episode of Cautionary Tales, the moral philosophers get involved and 449 00:35:53,530 --> 00:35:57,090 Speaker 1: we meet an altruist who might be even more extreme 450 00:35:57,410 --> 00:36:08,570 Speaker 1: than George Price, though in a very different way. Two 451 00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:12,490 Speaker 1: keys sources for this episode are The Price of Altruism 452 00:36:12,610 --> 00:36:17,610 Speaker 1: by Orn Harmon and Nature's Oracle by uli Ka Segastrell. 453 00:36:18,330 --> 00:36:21,010 Speaker 1: For a full list of our sources, please see Tim 454 00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:27,810 Speaker 1: Harford dot com. Cautionary Tales is written by me Tim 455 00:36:27,850 --> 00:36:31,810 Speaker 1: Harford with Andrew Wright, Alice Fines and Ryan Dilly. It's 456 00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:35,850 Speaker 1: produced by Georgia Mills and Marilyn Rusk. The sound design 457 00:36:35,970 --> 00:36:39,770 Speaker 1: and original music are the work of Pascal Wise. Additional 458 00:36:39,770 --> 00:36:44,370 Speaker 1: sound design is by Carlos san Juan at Brain Audio Bender. 459 00:36:44,450 --> 00:36:48,410 Speaker 1: Daf Haffrey edited the scripts. The show features the voice 460 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:54,130 Speaker 1: talents of Melanie Guttridge, Stella Harford, Oliver Hembrough, Sarah Jupp, Massaamnroe, 461 00:36:54,490 --> 00:36:58,490 Speaker 1: Jamal Westman and Rufus Wright. The show also wouldn't have 462 00:36:58,530 --> 00:37:01,970 Speaker 1: been possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg, Greta Cohne, 463 00:37:02,210 --> 00:37:07,050 Speaker 1: Sarah Nix, Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey 464 00:37:07,210 --> 00:37:12,450 Speaker 1: and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries. 465 00:37:12,610 --> 00:37:16,810 Speaker 1: It's recorded at Wardoor Studios in London by Tom Berry. 466 00:37:17,370 --> 00:37:20,170 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please remember to share, rate 467 00:37:20,410 --> 00:37:22,570 Speaker 1: and review. 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