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Speaker 1: M We're back. This is again Behind the Bastard to

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk about terrible people, and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about Gabriel de Nunzio, the inventor of fascism and

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Speaker 1: the inventor of claiming you had two ribs removed to

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Speaker 1: suck your own dick. Um, now, Sharine, how are you

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Speaker 1: feeling about this guy as we as we barrel into

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Speaker 1: part do you know he's fascinating? He's fascinating. I am intrigued. Um,

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Speaker 1: I thought he I mean, I was learned. Every second

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Speaker 1: of the last episode got more absurd as we continued. Um,

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Speaker 1: and it ended with me learning what he looked like.

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Speaker 1: So now that I haven't imagine in my head, it

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Speaker 1: might be easier for me to imagine what he how

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Speaker 1: he's going about his life. Um. Yeah, he's his claim

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Speaker 1: to fit his he has so many claim to fames,

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Speaker 1: which is he really does, which is crazy because you

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Speaker 1: would think, I don't know, Uh, he wouldn't quit, He

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Speaker 1: wouldn't quit. And I can't wait to learn how he

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Speaker 1: uh literally invented fascism, which is crazy. Yeah. This he's

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Speaker 1: got a lot of gas left in the tank. This

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Speaker 1: guy so much bullshit, He so much bullshit. He's lived

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Speaker 1: a full life of bullshit, and it's it's not even

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Speaker 1: at the halfway point. Really his activity is notable. That's

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Speaker 1: astonishing For a little I do want to say, like,

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Speaker 1: as interesting as I find this guy, his biography Gabrielle

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Speaker 1: de Nunzio, Poet, Seducer and the Preacher of War by

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Speaker 1: Lucy Hughes Hallett, I really recommend, like it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of the best biographies I've ever read. UM Like, very

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Speaker 1: compulsively readable. Um Hugh's Hallett is a is a fantastic

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Speaker 1: writer and very a very critical um I in a

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Speaker 1: really interesting way, Like I, I really appreciate her perspective

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Speaker 1: on this guy. So I very much recommend that book.

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Speaker 1: I mean, all the clothes you've read from it are

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Speaker 1: are amazing. Yeah. Abriel de Nunzio loved planes. Loved planes,

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Speaker 1: big plane fan. He'd been an enthusiastic fan of the

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Speaker 1: new technology since its inception. In nineteen nine. He had

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Speaker 1: made headlines at a famous air show in Brescia for

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Speaker 1: writing with an American aviator named Glenn Curtis over an

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Speaker 1: adoring crowd of thousands. The seat he sat on during

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Speaker 1: the flight was later auctioned off to his legions of

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Speaker 1: adoring fans. Prior to World War One, Gabrielle had repeatedly

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Speaker 1: pressed the Italian government to start an air force. When

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Speaker 1: the war started, Gabrielle's enormous fame and belligerent speeches managed

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Speaker 1: to secure him a lofty position in the Italian military.

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Speaker 1: The government expected him to write a song of war,

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Speaker 1: some brilliant poem that would light a fire in the

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Speaker 1: hearts of the Italian soldiery and helped to get the

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Speaker 1: nations fully behind a war most of them still did

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Speaker 1: not want. He was officially attached to the Third Army

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Speaker 1: as staff to the Duke of Aosta, but he was

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Speaker 1: given unlimited freedom to basically do whatever he wanted. He

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Speaker 1: could go to any part of the front he desired,

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Speaker 1: partake in any maneuvers or actions he wanted to partake in.

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Speaker 1: His job was generally to inspire the military in whatever

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Speaker 1: ways seemed interesting to him. So that's the job this

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Speaker 1: guy gets. At the start of World War One, Gabriel's

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Speaker 1: first trip up to the front was delayed by the

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Speaker 1: difficulty he had designing and hiring someone to sew his

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Speaker 1: custom uniforms. He eventually solved that problem while thousands of

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Speaker 1: his countrymen dashed themselves to bloody chunks and Austrian machine

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Speaker 1: gun nests. He spent so much time waiting at a

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Speaker 1: fancy hotel to get all of that sorted out that

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Speaker 1: yet again he went broke. His manager suggested he go

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Speaker 1: to Third Army headquarters and start working. He'd get free

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Speaker 1: food and lodging and be paid. But once he arrived

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Speaker 1: in Venice, the closest city to the front, he yet

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Speaker 1: again set him up in the fanciest possible hotel. As

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Speaker 1: much of an incorrigible dandy as he was do Nunzio's

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Speaker 1: writing during this period shows he was eager to actually

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Speaker 1: take part in war. On his way to the front,

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Speaker 1: he wrote in his notebook Sense of Emptiness and Distance,

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Speaker 1: Life and the Reasons for Living, a lude me between

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Speaker 1: two streams between past and future, Tedium, lukewarm water, necessity

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Speaker 1: for action. Surprisingly, this was not just bluster. Two days

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Speaker 1: after reaching Venice, he was on a naval destroyer doing

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Speaker 1: night maneuvers, heading towards the Austrian coast. Like two weeks

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Speaker 1: before he did this, one of those historians had been

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Speaker 1: sunk by a mind and dozens of guys had died,

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Speaker 1: so this was a very dangerous thing to do. Um.

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Speaker 1: His trip wound up not having any combat in it,

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Speaker 1: but he later spent time up at the front lines,

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Speaker 1: where he was under machine gun fire and artillery shelling regularly.

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Speaker 1: He made friends, and he saw them die horribly. Um

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Speaker 1: and none of this dimmed the nuncio's ardor for war.

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Speaker 1: Lucy Hughes Howett writes, blessed are those who are now

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Speaker 1: twenty years old. He said he worshiped and envied their

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Speaker 1: beauty and took enormous pleasure in the opportunities that war

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Speaker 1: afforded him to live alongside them as companions and arms.

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Speaker 1: Their deaths were marvelous to him. When they were killed,

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Speaker 1: as one after another they were, he took them into

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Speaker 1: the pantheon. He was elaborating in his writing and speeches,

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Speaker 1: making them the martyrs and cult heroes of his new

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Speaker 1: mythology of war. Yeah he's a guy, I mean like

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Speaker 1: he's he's doing exactly what he wants, which is like infuriating.

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Speaker 1: You know, he does that, that's his whole life. Yeah, yeah, out,

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle is is enticing. As he found the front lines,

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Speaker 1: he had no desire to actually take part in trench

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Speaker 1: combat because it led to all everyone dying basically anonymously

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Speaker 1: in huge groups. And if there's one thing he could

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Speaker 1: not stand, it was being part of a large, anonymous

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Speaker 1: group of men. Um he had. Yeah, so he decided

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Speaker 1: that the sky was more like the theater of war

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Speaker 1: he wanted to get involved in. UM. It had nothing Now,

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Speaker 1: this choice like had nothing to do with cowardice, but

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Speaker 1: it was intimately tied to his narcissism. He was absolutely

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Speaker 1: willing to die, and flying in any any length of

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Speaker 1: time was very dangerous at this period of time. UM.

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Speaker 1: What he couldn't abide was dying anonymously, and pilots were

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Speaker 1: at the time seen as the knights of the sky.

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Speaker 1: So if he died, you know, in a plane, that

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Speaker 1: was a romantic enough death for him to be willing

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Speaker 1: to like take the risk. Very calculated. Yeah, he never

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Speaker 1: learned to fly, but he figured he was more than

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Speaker 1: capable of being a bombardier basically dropping bombs by hand

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Speaker 1: on targets like while the guy in front flew. UM.

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Speaker 1: And now up at the front, he had befriended a pilot,

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Speaker 1: a guy named Meraglia, who told him that a bombing

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Speaker 1: raid had been planned for the city of Trieste, Austria's

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Speaker 1: chief port. The city had a large Italian population, was

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Speaker 1: seen by people like Gabrielle as rightfully Italy's property, and

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Speaker 1: de Nunzio here was struck by a brilliant idea. Not

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Speaker 1: only would he bomb the city, he had also devised

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Speaker 1: a way to air drop propaganda onto Trieste to try

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Speaker 1: and incite the Italian citizens to rise up against their government.

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Speaker 1: This was not an easy mission. No Italian pilot had

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Speaker 1: ever flown this far in a single trip, and there

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Speaker 1: would be numerous machine guns protecting the port itself from

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Speaker 1: aerial attack. It was an insanely dangerous gambit, seen as

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Speaker 1: suicidal by many, and Maraglia and Nunzio would be undertaking

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Speaker 1: this mission alone. Obviously, the attack had little military value,

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Speaker 1: but the propaganda value of dropping bombs on the Austrian

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Speaker 1: emplacements and propaganda for the Italian citizens was, in Gabrielle's

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Speaker 1: eyes huge. For days, he agonized over how to drop

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Speaker 1: the leaflets, which he wrote himself. He eventually went with

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Speaker 1: tiny and bags that would help the leaflets fall on

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Speaker 1: target rather than getting blown to and fro the message

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Speaker 1: itself was titled to the Italians of Trieste and promised

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Speaker 1: an imminent liberation. Each copy was handwritten by him, a

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Speaker 1: sign of how much the project mattered in Gabrielle's eyes.

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Speaker 1: Once it became clear that what they planned to do,

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Speaker 1: of course, the admiral in charge of Italy's air force

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Speaker 1: tried to put a stop to it. So did the

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Speaker 1: government known with any measure of power, and wanted gabriel

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Speaker 1: de Nunzio, Italy's most famous living poet and writer, to

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Speaker 1: die flying over Austria. Morale was bad enough, after the

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Speaker 1: glorious war against Austria had turned almost instantly into a

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Speaker 1: blood soaked stalemate. Instead, they wanted him to sit in

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Speaker 1: his hotel room and write the damn poem they'd been

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Speaker 1: counting on him to write to help motivate the war effort.

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Speaker 1: But now up at the front, Gabrielle de Nunzio found

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Speaker 1: himself unable to write. I have a horror of sedentary work,

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Speaker 1: of the pin, of the ink of paper, of all

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Speaker 1: those things now become so futile. A feverish desire for

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Speaker 1: action takes me do. Nunzio protested against being grounded and

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Speaker 1: a battle ensued behind the scenes of the military brass. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: De Nunzio went to the time Minister and tried flattery.

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Speaker 1: And here's how Lucy Hughes Hallett describes it in one

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Speaker 1: of the most deliciously catty sections of her book. You,

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Speaker 1: whose own spirit is so hard working and so generous,

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Speaker 1: must understand me. He stressed his physical competence. He was

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Speaker 1: not a man of letters as of the old type,

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Speaker 1: and skull cap and slippers. He was an adventurer. My

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Speaker 1: whole life has been a risky game, he boasted of

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Speaker 1: his past daring. I have exposed myself to danger a

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Speaker 1: thousand times against the fences and hedges of the Roman Campagna.

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Speaker 1: He adored fox hunting in France. He had often been

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Speaker 1: out on the Atlantic and chancey weather, as the fishermen

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Speaker 1: of the Landez could tell you. He had ventured repeatedly

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Speaker 1: in the enemy territory on the Western Front. He visited

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Speaker 1: the front twice, staying on the safer side of the

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Speaker 1: French lines. Most importantly, I am an aviator. I have

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Speaker 1: flown many times at high altitude. This wasn't strictly true either,

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Speaker 1: and he wasn't only brave. He had knowledge and skills

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Speaker 1: which could be useful. He knew Istria, he knew Trieste,

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Speaker 1: he had an observant spirit. Having presented his credentials, he

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Speaker 1: made his request in the most insistent terms, I pray

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Speaker 1: I beg repeal this odious veto. He hinted that if

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Speaker 1: he were not allowed to risk his life in his

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Speaker 1: own way, he would liberately endangered by going straight to

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Speaker 1: the front to bar one with my past, my future

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Speaker 1: from living the herolic life would be to cripple me,

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Speaker 1: to mutilate me, to reduce me to nothing. And the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister was apparently impressed by his ardor, and permission

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Speaker 1: was granted for the raid. So he gets his way,

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Speaker 1: as he always tells his entire every single time, of

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Speaker 1: her her way of writing that though I love that,

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Speaker 1: she's just like I imagine in my head and like

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Speaker 1: in parentheses being like all this like side note, like

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Speaker 1: not true. The whole biography is written with the air

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Speaker 1: of like, yeah, she's just utterly unimpressed by a lot

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Speaker 1: of this guy's life that I love that, but also

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Speaker 1: fascinated by him and compelled to chronicle that it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting book. I mean, I will say, like in my brain.

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Speaker 1: When you were talking about him dropping uh, propaganda from

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Speaker 1: a plane, I was I was thinking, like he might

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Speaker 1: as well be dropping poetry books, Like isn't that one

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Speaker 1: of the same. Isn't that kind of what they wanted

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Speaker 1: him to do? Regardless, Like isn't like it's they wanted

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Speaker 1: him to inspire the people of Italy um, because like

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Speaker 1: most Italians weren't really on board with the war. Like

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Speaker 1: he was able to get a lot of them in

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Speaker 1: the cities on board, but like most people in Italy

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Speaker 1: were like, why are we Why would we get involved

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Speaker 1: in this stupid thing? It would be like sends our

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Speaker 1: suns off to die for this. So that's what the

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Speaker 1: government wanted, was him to convince them of that, and

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Speaker 1: instead he really wants to go be in danger um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and no, he just likes being a contrarian. Probably that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. So Gabrielle and his pilot set off

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Speaker 1: on August seven, and what followed was an outrageously dangerous adventure.

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Speaker 1: They were shot at several times and at least one

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Speaker 1: bullet struck the plane. Just flying a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: kilometers in that period of time was very risky and

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Speaker 1: it's really impossible to overstate just how fucking dangerous this was.

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Speaker 1: At one point, a bomb got stuck on the plane

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Speaker 1: and Di Nunzio had to dislodge it, an act that

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Speaker 1: could have easily led to the bomb exploding and killing

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Speaker 1: he and his pilot. Um. I'm emphasizing the danger here

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Speaker 1: because I want to make it clear that with his actions,

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle in Nzio did prove that his rhetoric wasn't empty.

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Speaker 1: He was not the sort of guy who would urge

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Speaker 1: others onto war and then stay safely in the background. UM.

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Speaker 1: He repeatedly risked his life over the course of World

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Speaker 1: War One, but the attack on Trieste was probably the

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Speaker 1: most insanely dangerous act of his life. When he landed

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Speaker 1: safely after dropping propaganda and bombs on Trieste and the

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Speaker 1: news broke of his new exploit, De Nunzio was more

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Speaker 1: famous than ever. He became the idol of the Italian public,

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Speaker 1: the nation's single greatest living hero. He could barely go

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Speaker 1: out in public without being mobbed, and he continued to fly,

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Speaker 1: or at least let others fly him. He dropped numerous

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Speaker 1: bombs and fired machine guns, but his highest preference was

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Speaker 1: at deploying propaganda. Do Nunzio was well ahead of the

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Speaker 1: curve on recognizing this as the weapon of the future,

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Speaker 1: and his most famous action was dropping leaflets over Vienna,

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Speaker 1: the Austrian capital, near the end of the war. The

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Speaker 1: propaganda would be almost the last significant written work of

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle's life, As The New Republic notes, in January nineteen sixteen,

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Speaker 1: he suffered a detached retina during an air raid and

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Speaker 1: was forced to lie absolutely still for several months to

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Speaker 1: save other eye. During his enforced convalescence, he composed a

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Speaker 1: text of in poetic verse prose, written line by line

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Speaker 1: on slips of paper handed to him by his daughter Nada.

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Speaker 1: These formed the basis for his memoir Naturno, which appeared

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Speaker 1: in nineteen has recently been published in supple English translation

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Speaker 1: by Steven Sartarelli. It was Denunzio's entry into the stream

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Speaker 1: of consciousness sweepstakes, his most openly modernist work, admired by many,

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Speaker 1: including Hemingway, in spite of the fact that he considered

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Speaker 1: his author a jerk. Naturno was De Nunzio's last major

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Speaker 1: contribution to literature. I mean, god, He's just praised as

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Speaker 1: a God, his entire fucking life, and I think a

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Speaker 1: part of the reason why he risked his life, I

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Speaker 1: don't think he was actually ready to die. I think

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Speaker 1: he just feels he felt invincible, and I think he

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Speaker 1: might have been it. Yeah, I mean, like, I just

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Speaker 1: think there's so much um I don't know your your

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Speaker 1: brain is a powerful thing, and if you actually think

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Speaker 1: you're invincible, I think there's an element that like you will,

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Speaker 1: you'll be fine, Like it's your whole life, You've gone

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Speaker 1: away with every fucking thing. You're not going to die

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Speaker 1: in a plane. And I don't think he was. He

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Speaker 1: I don't think he I think he knew the whole

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Speaker 1: time he was never going to die. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He wrote a lot about being convinced that he would

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Speaker 1: die on these missions, and they were very dangerous, but

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Speaker 1: it is impossible to know, like how he really felt

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Speaker 1: in the center of this part, because like, obviously you

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Speaker 1: would have to write about being certain you were going

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Speaker 1: to die as part of what you're trying to do

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Speaker 1: is convince other men to go into situations where they'll

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Speaker 1: probably die. And I'm sure it was extremely dangerous and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it was outrageously so like very fright frightening

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Speaker 1: and everything. But I do think there's an element to

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Speaker 1: his personality where he just thinks he's invincible because he's

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Speaker 1: gotten away with so much shit and he literally lands

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Speaker 1: and his life starts over again. He's a god, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like it's like exactly what he's

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Speaker 1: been since birth. Yep. And this like really is the

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Speaker 1: end of his period of time as a writer and

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Speaker 1: an artist of note, Like he stops lead producing work

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Speaker 1: after World War One, and like especially subs producing his

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Speaker 1: best work. Um. And while the war the end of

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Speaker 1: the war more or less brought about the end of

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle's career as an artist, it was not the end

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Speaker 1: of his career as an asshole who shoved his dick

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Speaker 1: into world affairs. Italy wound up on the winning side

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Speaker 1: of World War One, but they were by far the

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Speaker 1: junior partner on their side of the war. The French,

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Speaker 1: British and Russians rightly viewed the misturn Coats, who got

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Speaker 1: in late and sacrificed far fewer men than their allies.

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Speaker 1: As a result, Italy got very little in the way

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Speaker 1: of new territory at the end of the war. Gabrielle

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Speaker 1: de Nunzio considered this a mutilation, a disgusting stab in

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Speaker 1: the back after all the sacrifices he had convinced his

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Speaker 1: countrymen to make. One of the things that infuriated him

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Speaker 1: most was the fact that the territory of the Austro

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Speaker 1: Hungarian Empire was being broken up and given to its

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Speaker 1: own people. He was livid at the establishment of a

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Speaker 1: Slavic state and the Balkans, and particularly livid at the

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Speaker 1: fact that the city of Fume, with an assizeable Italian population,

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Speaker 1: would be a part of that state. Gabrielle Donunzio decided

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Speaker 1: he was not going to take this lying down, so

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Speaker 1: he decided to raise an army and can or the

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00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: city for Italy on his own. Yeah. The balls on

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Speaker 1: this guy, I mean you can see him in the

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Speaker 1: banana hammock. They're they're they're good, good, good old old balls. Um. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the new Republican go ahead, please please Yeah. He called

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Speaker 1: in the Italian government to occupy the city, and in

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Speaker 1: September nineteen nineteen, after they failed to do so, he

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Speaker 1: took matters into his own hands. He marched on Fume

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Speaker 1: at the head of a Cadre of Arditi or daredevil

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Speaker 1: stormtroopers clad in the black and silver uniforms and black

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Speaker 1: fezs that would be aped like so much. That was

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Speaker 1: De Nunzio by the fascists. Greeted with cheers by the

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Speaker 1: Italian speaking locals, De Nunzio announced that he had annexed Fume,

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Speaker 1: expecting the government would take control, but there was no reaction.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly the poet politician found himself in charge of a

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Speaker 1: city in the grip of a delirious cocaine enhanced bachanal. Eventually, Fume,

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Speaker 1: with de Nunzio as its deuice, declared its independence. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I keep wanting to like analyze this guy, like really okay,

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Speaker 1: I think his his fame when he was a poet,

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Speaker 1: were it was. It was revered and beautiful like like

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Speaker 1: like a beautiful like like not beautiful, Sorry I thought

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Speaker 1: the word I'm trying. It was he was revered as

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Speaker 1: this like artistic guy, and it was this like kind

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Speaker 1: of like a fan base that was passionate and read

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00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 1: his stuff, thought he was sexy whatever. But now this

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Speaker 1: kind of fame, this lesion, is this violent thing that

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Speaker 1: I think he's always wanted He's always wanted to command

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Speaker 1: people that will do whatever he says, and I think

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Speaker 1: he got a taste of that as a like during

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Speaker 1: the war. And it's scary the kind of power that

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Speaker 1: this guy has. He's always had, but in this scenario,

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00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: with violence and with with bringing people to literally make

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Speaker 1: an army, like he's always had some type of army,

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Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say. His army as a

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00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: poet was different than his army is than this point

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00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 1: in his life. But it's a little scary just how um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like he's really he's really

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00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 1: obsessed with being this figure and it's because he's doing

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00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 1: he's really good at it, I don't know well. And again,

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Speaker 1: as is always the case with these guys, everyone kind

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00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 1: of gives him what he wants. Um. You know, Like

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Speaker 1: obviously what he did was profoundly illegal, and like the

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Speaker 1: Allied forces were like, yeah, Fume has to go to Yugoslavia.

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Speaker 1: You can't let him do this, and they sent an

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Speaker 1: army to stop him when he was marching on the city.

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Speaker 1: But that army was made up of Italians and they

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Speaker 1: loved De Nunzio. They refused to attack him, and hundreds

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Speaker 1: of soldiers deserted to join his army as he marched

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Speaker 1: on the city. That is a third power. That's crazy,

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00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 1: It's almost incomprehensible. Um. Yeah, and and so in the

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Speaker 1: fall of nineteen nineteen, Gabrielle de Nunzio found himself as

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Speaker 1: the dictator of a small state on the Mediterranean post.

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Speaker 1: He was this guy's life, Jesus, well, it's something else. Um.

355
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 1: He was fifty six years old and powerfully ill with

356
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Speaker 1: the flu As his forces marched into town. The people

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Speaker 1: of Fume did not notice his infirmity. They were enormous

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Speaker 1: fans of the celebrity poet, and thousands of them stayed

359
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,320
Speaker 1: up all nights, specifically so they could welcome their new

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Speaker 1: dictator home with rapturous applause. His soldiers were greeted in

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Speaker 1: the streets with women wearing evening dresses and carrying guns,

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Speaker 1: ready to party or do battle against the Allies should

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Speaker 1: they try to stop. To Nunzio, he announced the creation

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Speaker 1: of a new city state, which he believed would be

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Speaker 1: a model for human society in the future. The state

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Speaker 1: would be based around what he called the politics of

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Speaker 1: poetry Fume. He insisted would be a searchlight, radiant in

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Speaker 1: the midst of an ocean of objection. He believed that

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Speaker 1: what they built there would set a fire that would

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Speaker 1: burn down the old order in the world. And so

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Speaker 1: he declared, fume the city of the Holocaust. Wow. That

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00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:08,880
Speaker 1: was ch that sentence. Jesus, this fucking guy. Wow. In

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Speaker 1: some ways, he's most similar to a guy like l

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Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard, who was like, you just kept accelerating right

375
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,440
Speaker 1: up until the end, like, never take your foot off

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00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 1: the gas, like, not for a fucking second. Yeah, that

377
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 1: is that is crazy. It's wild. What a journey. And

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00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,360
Speaker 1: he's he's young in comparison to the he's he's only

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Speaker 1: fifty something and dictator like that's a yeah, yeah, I'm

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00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,879
Speaker 1: sure I've got listeners in their fifties white Even't you

381
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 1: taken over a small city on the Mediterranean? Established Republican poetry? Yeah?

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00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: Come on now, I'm gonna quote again from Lucy Hughes.

383
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Speaker 1: Oh wait, no, it's a it's ad break time, isn't

384
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: it is? It is? All right? Well, you know what

385
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: won't turn your city into a city of the Holocaust.

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Speaker 1: Whoever the ad is, whatever, exactly, they will not do that.

387
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 1: They do not we do. That is one of our

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00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 1: firm lines with advertisers. Do not create cities of the Holocaust. Anyway,

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00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: We're back. So I want to start with reading a

390
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Speaker 1: quote from Lucy Hughes Hallett on like what happens in

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Speaker 1: Fume After after Gabrielle de Nunzio takes over quote, the

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00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: place became a political laboratory. Socialists, anarchists, syndicalists, and some

393
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: of those who had begun earlier that year to call

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00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,359
Speaker 1: themselves fascists congregated. There Representatives of shinn Fine, which is

395
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: like an Irish republican extremist group, and of nationalist groups

396
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: from India in Egypt arrived discreetly, followed by British agents.

397
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Speaker 1: Then there were the groups whose homeland was not of

398
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: this earth. The Union of free Spirits tending towards perfection,

399
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: who met under a fig tree in the old Town

400
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: to talk about free love and the abolition of money

401
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 1: and yoga, a kind of political comb street gang, described

402
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 1: by one of its members as an island of the

403
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: blessed in the infinite sea of history. Donunzian Fume was

404
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: a land of the cognate, an extra legitimate place where

405
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: normal rules didn't apply. It was also a land of cocaine,

406
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: fashionably carried in a little gold box in the waistcoat.

407
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: Pocket deserters and adrenaline star war veterans alike sought a

408
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: refuge there from the dreariness of economic depression and the

409
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: tedium of peace. Drug dealers and prostitutes followed them into

410
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: the city. One visitor reported he had never known sex

411
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: so cheap. So did aristocratic dilettants, runaway teenagers, poets, and

412
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Speaker 1: poetry lovers from all over the Western world. Human nineteen

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00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 1: nineteen was as magnetic to an international confraternity of discontented

414
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: idealists as San Francisco's Hate Ashbury would be in nineteen

415
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Speaker 1: sixty eight. But unlike the hippies, Donunzio's followers intended to

416
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: make war as well as love. So it's this weird

417
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 1: melting pot of like left wing radicals and right wing

418
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: radicals who were all united in their idea that like,

419
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 1: fuck everything else that's going on, let's all take murder

420
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: each other. They're just Desperation is a really dangerous tool

421
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 1: because I think, similar to what you said in the

422
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: last episode about like anger, like people really channeling being

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00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: able to like utilize the mass, the anger of the masses,

424
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: and channel in the right way. I think anger and

425
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 1: desperation are really related in that regard because you can

426
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: you can unify people with their desperation, and I think

427
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: that's the case with a lot of extremist groups honestly. Uh.

428
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: But and it's also it's important to note that de

429
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: Nunzio himself gets hugely into cocaine at this point, Like

430
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: he's a not surprisingly loves cocaine and starts like inhaling

431
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: his fucking body weight every week and fucking in blow

432
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: just like and that's part of when you try to

433
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: understand this place in this period, Like do Nunzian fume,

434
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: It floats on an ocean of blow, like like impossible

435
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: amounts of cocaine is like the only thing that would

436
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: make an experiment like this possible. Um, it sounds great.

437
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: I actually would have loved to be there, Like it

438
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: sounds like it kind of rules. It sounds like, I mean,

439
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 1: especially for the time, it sounds like this oasis in

440
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: a in a sea of dread, you know, especially I

441
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: mean art. Yeah, yeah, it was well, it wasn't safe

442
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: because there were also street gangs of fascists and it

443
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: was gunning each other down. Yeah, it's just this lawless,

444
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: bizarre place where everyone's making art and experimenting with new

445
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: politics and having gunfights and orgies and cocaine parties on

446
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: an hourly basis. It's just incomprehensible. That is his entire life. Honestly,

447
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: I can't really wrin my head around it. Every turn.

448
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: I said this before, but every turn is more absurd

449
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: than the next. Like I did not think this was

450
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: going to go here in the beginning, Like that's crazy.

451
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: He's a monster, but he's objectively one of the most

452
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: fascinating people who ever lived his life. And not be like,

453
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: what the fuck, dude, you're the most fascinating people, Like

454
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: a lot of historical figures like Hitler as a historical figure,

455
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: very compelling as an individual, kind of a weird, boring, gross,

456
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: sad life. De Nunzio a monster too, but like fuck,

457
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: what a what a life? Like you gotta respect it

458
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 1: at like a lot of that, Like that's you gotta

459
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: respect the hustle at least. It's just I'll give you that.

460
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: I'll respect the hustle. And he's just problematic in so

461
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: many ways. He's a monster monster. He's like, I'll run

462
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: a Hubbard where he's like this terrible person. But you

463
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: can't turn away from what he turned his life into. Um,

464
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: I mean it works. He got what he wanted every

465
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: step of the fucking way, every step of the fucking way. Basically, Dan,

466
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: does this guy not suffer. I'm waiting for this guy

467
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: to suffer. Just that we're getting to that a little bit,

468
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: a little bit. De Nunzio wanted Fume to be a

469
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: work of art made in the medium of human lives,

470
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,239
Speaker 1: and it was certainly something public life. Was described as

471
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: a permanent street theater performance. There were constant orgies involving

472
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: huge numbers of people, and of course, like all the

473
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: cocaine in the world, there was also violence and constant

474
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: murdered by gangs of black shirted thugs. But oddly, left

475
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 1: and right found a way to meet in Fume. This

476
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: was before fascism had really taken off, and write as

477
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: Communism was in the process of taking over Russia, the

478
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: bizarre experiment in Fume attracted the support of literally every

479
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: kind of extremist. Vladimir Ilioch Lennon sent Gabrielle a pot

480
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: of Caviare and called him the only revolutionary in Europe.

481
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: Benito Mussolini expressed his deep admiration of de Nunzio, and

482
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: the two began a long correspondence in letters. So, like,

483
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: both Lennon and Mussolini loved this guy and what he's

484
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: doing in Fume. Um, it's so weird and it's so bizarre.

485
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: It's hard to wrap your head around. So many people

486
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: were obsessed with this guy. Like I'm thinking about what

487
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: you said about Hemingway, like even like every type of

488
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: person was like I gotta give it to him. But

489
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: now there's like really and len like you can't ignore

490
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: de Nunzio, Like then that's what Denunzio wants. You have

491
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: to like stare at him. You can't not He's just this,

492
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: He's he's just like a peacock. He's his entire life.

493
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: He peacocked the entirety of Europe, which is quite an accomplishment. Yeah,

494
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: so fun as it sounds. Fume was not a paradise.

495
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: Syphilis was astonishingly rampant, and Denunzio could be like everybody,

496
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: including de Nunzio, got syphilis. When you said partners, he

497
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: had wanted to ask like he must have had some

498
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: type of consequence. There must have he was his body

499
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: weight was sevent like, sexually transmitted like he was more

500
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 1: chlamydia than man um and Denunzio could also be a

501
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: brutal ruler. Midway through nineteen sixteen, he held a plebiscite

502
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: promising to hand over control of the city to someone

503
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: else if the people no longer wanted him in charge,

504
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: and he lost the plebiscite, but he did not give

505
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: up power is Centurions of Death, an elite corps of

506
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: black shirted thugs kept the city under his control, and

507
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: during this period, Gabrielle also introduced an innovation that everyone

508
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: today is tragically agonizing. Lee familiar with the Roman salute

509
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: now most people know. Most people know the Roman salute

510
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: better as the Nazi salute, that weird, creepy straight arm

511
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: salute that fascists and border patrol employees do. Yeah, he

512
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: invented that. He invented lying about removing your ribs to

513
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: suck your dick and the fascist salute the same guy shit.

514
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: No idea that one person was capable of achieving so much.

515
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: It's amazing that is I'm Harry gets way too much credit. Yeah,

516
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: fucking de Nunzio. Yo, I'm going to read a quote

517
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: from Count Carlos Sforza, an Italian diplomat and an anti

518
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: fascist politician who was a contemporary of De Nunzio's. Um.

519
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: He wrote quote, it was he who had fume invented

520
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: that Roman salute, which has now become also the German salute,

521
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: and which he, overlooking its implications, copied from some statue

522
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: or fresco forgetting that in Rome the sieves the citizens

523
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: greeted each other by shaking hands, and that only slaves

524
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: made the sign, which has been adopted by the subjects

525
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: of Mussolini and Hitler. So he's they were very condescending

526
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: as far as like this, Like he didn't know. He

527
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: liked the way it looked in statues, and so he

528
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: made his people do it, and it took off with

529
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: Mussolini's fascists, and then with Hitler's fascists, and now with

530
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: border patrol employees. Um wow, I am amazing. Literally every

531
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: second of this podcast blotter off to the floor. I

532
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: wish I wish this this call was recorded, because my

533
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: face just literally contorts and like my mouth is a

534
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: gape for so much of what you're saying. I cannot

535
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: believe this guy's life. It's something else down. Immediately after

536
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: taking power, De Nunzio's first action was to establish a

537
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: press office, which he used to send out communicats to

538
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: governments and politicians and media outlets round the world. Journalists

539
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: flocked to the city, as well as political extremists. Gabrielle

540
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: offered to arm the IRA with some of the tens

541
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: of thousands of rifles his forces had captured. He entertained

542
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: grand visions of invading England, which he hated at the

543
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: head of an Irish army, but the IRA was a

544
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: little too smart for that. They wanted guns, but Gabrielle's

545
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: hatred of the United States was seen as potentially alienating

546
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: the nation they saw as their greatest ally. Mussolini at

547
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: one point wrote to him and suggested that two of

548
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: them should work to overthrow the Italian monarchy and establish

549
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: a directory essentially a powerful fascist central government. Remarkably, Benito

550
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: didn't see himself as the head of this organization. He

551
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: wanted to make De Nunzio the dictator, but Gabrielle was

552
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: at least loyal to the Italian throne and was unwilling

553
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: to take part in such a revolution. In November of

554
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, Osbert Sitwell, an English writer, joined the crowds

555
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: of journalists in revolution suctionaries who'd come to fume. His

556
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: goal was to see what the man who has done

557
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: more for the Italian language than any writer since Dante

558
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: had done with a nation of his own and Lucy

559
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: Hughes Howett writes quote, Sitwell finds the streets full of

560
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: colorful desperadoes. Every man seemed to wear a uniform designed

561
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: by himself. Some more beards and had shaven heads like

562
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: the commander. Others cultivated huge tufts of hair half a

563
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: foot long waving out from their foreheads, and a black

564
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: fez at the back of the head. Cloaks, daggers, and

565
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: flowing black ties were universal, and all carried the Roman dagger.

566
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: Sitwell succeeds in securing an audience. He passes through a

567
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: pillared hall full of palm trees and pseudo Byzantine flower pots,

568
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: where soldiers lounged and typis rushed furiously in and out.

569
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: In an inner room almost entirely covered with banners, he

570
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: finds two more than life size carved and gilded saints

571
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: from Florence, a huge fifteenth century bronze bell, and the commandant,

572
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: as do Nunzio now likes to be called, in military

573
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: gray green, his chest striped with ribbons of his many medals.

574
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: He seems nervous and tired, but bald and one eyed

575
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: as he is. At the end of a few seconds,

576
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: one felt the influence of that extraordinary very charm, which

577
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: has enabled him to change howling mobs into furious partisans.

578
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: Since sit Will arrived in Fume, the great conductor Arturo

579
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Tuscanini has brought his orchestra to the town. To celebrate

580
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: Tuscanini's visit, De Nunzio lays on a mock battle which

581
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: is as lethal as an ancient Roman circus. Four thousand

582
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: men take part, attacking each other with real grenades. The orchestra,

583
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: which initially provides a musical accompaniment Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, becomes

584
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 1: involved in the fighting. Over a hundred men are injured,

585
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: including five musicians. Now De Nunzio, discussing the event with Sitwell,

586
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: explains that his legionnaires are weary of waiting for battle.

587
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: They must fight one another. I have so many questions. Okay, first,

588
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: I remember you said that he didn't even like politics. No,

589
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: but this is not politics. This is being worshiped by

590
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: a whole city and having them fight for his amusement.

591
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: For he's basically eats religion. For someone who hates religion

592
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: as much as he does, he loves being worshiped. His

593
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: religion is just CULTI and worship of himself absolutely, And

594
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: like I've heard it said that, like you know, the

595
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: rock stars of like the sixties and seventies, like the

596
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: Beatles and the Stones and like Pink Floyd and stuff

597
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: like those guys got about as close to being a

598
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: god as anyone has ever gotten. I think the Nunzio

599
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: is the closest any human has ever experienced to really

600
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: like like, at least in the modern era. You know,

601
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: maybe earlier when he literally worshiped, but like in every field,

602
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: that's the thing that's wild and every field imaginable, he

603
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: was worshiped. My other question is he so he actually

604
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: lost his eye, so he was bedridden, but then he

605
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: lost the eye. Yeah, he lost one eye. So now

606
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: he's even weird, weirder looking than he was before. He's

607
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: just like, does he wear a patch. I think he

608
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: wears a glass eye. Okay, yeah, you know he's probably

609
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: still fucking too, so yeah, oh he is fucking constantly.

610
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: He never stops fucking, like always fucking. Yeah? Did he

611
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: also invent Viagara? What's next? What? What? What? What I

612
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: wanted to give me next? I do kind of feel

613
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: like he was one of the people who never really

614
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: needed that, Like he was the horniest man who ever lived.

615
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: Like that is that is Gabriel de Nunzio. Now, this

616
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: whole deliriously mad state of affairs lasted only a few

617
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: more weeks. In January of ninety one, pressed by the

618
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: League of Nations, the Italian government finally took action against

619
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: its native son. They sent a gunboat and soldiers and

620
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: laid siege to the city. A few after five days

621
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: of fighting and fifty some deaths, Gabrielle de Nunzio decided

622
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: he had finally had enough of war. Perhaps he was

623
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: scared of dying himself, or perhaps he just had no

624
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: stomach for fighting his fellow Italians. He left the city.

625
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: One supporter later wrote, descriptively, under a delusion flowers, he

626
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: forces his way through a city in tears. The failure

627
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: of his fume ventures seems to have drained Gabrielle of

628
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: much of his remaining energy. He was allowed back into

629
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: Italy with a squad of his cult like followers, and

630
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: he ordered them to find him a home with a

631
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: grand piano, a bath through him, a laundry, plenty of

632
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: wood and coal in an enclosed garden. He told them,

633
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: if within eight days none of you have found a

634
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: suitable house for me, I shall throw myself into the

635
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: Canal Jesus. Unfortunately, they found him a place and he

636
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: occupied it for three years or so until Benito Mussolini's

637
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: March on Rome ended Italy's quasi democracy and brought about

638
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 1: the establishment of the world's first fascist state. Mussolini's Italy

639
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: and the tactics he used to present himself to the

640
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: people were deeply based in things he learned from Gabrielle

641
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: to Nunzio, and the poet knew it. In one letter

642
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: to Mussolini, he wrote, am I not the precursor of

643
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: all that is good about fascism? I I'm just speechless, honestly. Like,

644
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: first of all, away with the dramatic guy, A very

645
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: dramatic thing, very very dramatic, where I'm going to just

646
00:34:54,320 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: throw myself. But like he really I hate to say it,

647
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: but like he thinks he's good at everything, and he

648
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: kind of was the like he was very very much

649
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: in Anetzcha and likes idea of the ubermention. And it's

650
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: one of those guys where it's like life didn't prove

651
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: him wrong. Like if you believe you're a superior being

652
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: and you live this guy's life, it's kind of hard

653
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: not to remain convinced of that. That's what I meant

654
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: earlier when I mentioned that I get this this feeling

655
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: of like the self fulfilling prophecy of like if you

656
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: think you're invincible, then you actually will get away with anything,

657
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 1: will be and will be invincible. Obviously it doesn't work

658
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: all the time, but with this case, having lived your

659
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: entire life this way since you were a literal baby god,

660
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of the things interesting to me,

661
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: this guy being Italian and being very obsessed with like

662
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: ancient Rome and Roman iconography. The ancient Romans had um

663
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: a strategy for dealing with as most cultures had to

664
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: develop some sort of strategy for trying to deal with

665
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: runaway egos because it's dangerous when somebody's ego gets this

666
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: out of control, which is de Nunzio's whole life is

667
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 1: lesson in that. Um. So they would have these things

668
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: called triumphs. When like a Roman general went a particularly

669
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: great victory, he would be allowed to go on this

670
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: massive parade through the city. He was basically dictator for

671
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: a day. Everybody almost worshiped him for like a day,

672
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: and they knew that this was dangerous because it really

673
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: got on someone's ego. So while this guy is like

674
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: the center of the entire like Roman Republic and then

675
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: Empire's attention the whole day, there's a guy whose job

676
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: is to stand next to him and repeatedly whisper into

677
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: his ear basically, you're gonna die at some point, you're

678
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: going to die. Like, remember, you're going to die. You're

679
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: just a man, and you're going to die like like

680
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: someone should have been doing that for Denuncie into the ground. Damn. Yeah,

681
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: that's a crazy thing. Well I know that about the

682
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: it's a cool bit of history. Um So you know what,

683
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: isn't the precursor of all that's good about fascism? Sharine

684
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: sponsors that's right, That is right, Robert stay Roberto the

685
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: Italian unless you believe in the theory that fascism is

686
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: the inevitable descendant of capitalism, because capital will always resort

687
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: to authoritarian means to preserve itself in the face of

688
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: civil unrest um in which well, let's just go to ads.

689
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: So let's not linger on that one too much. We're

690
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: back so Hi. Mussolini is in charge of Italy now,

691
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: and he well understood the value of using someone like Gabrielle.

692
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: De Nunzio was too famous and popular to ignore, and

693
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 1: so will do. Trotted De Nunzio out for public events

694
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: and made sure everybody saw the poet embracing him and

695
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: his new regime. In private, Gabrielle hated this. He saw

696
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: Mussolini as an imitation, and his enormous ego could not

697
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: stand the insinuation that he had merely prepared the way

698
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: for some other greater Italian leader. Under Mussolini, the Italian

699
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: state gifted Gabrielle a ma se mansion, money and regularly

700
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: sent him bizarre gifts, including half of an actual battleship,

701
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: which he set up on his lawn like a gazebo.

702
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: He continued to host parties and socialized, but over the

703
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: next decade and change, his health gradually declined. He died

704
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight at age seventy four. Personally, Gabrielle

705
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: disagreed with most of the decisions Mussolini made. He particularly

706
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: hated the alliance with Hitler, who De Nunzio saw correctly

707
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: as a monster and a fool. He was briefly courted

708
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: by the anti fascist resistance in Italy as a possible

709
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: foil to Mussolini, but if that was ever something that

710
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: would have interested to Nunzio, he was far too old

711
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: to try. I quoted count Sforza a little earlier. That

712
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: was from an obituary he wrote, titled De Nunzio Inventor

713
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: of Fascism in nineteen thirty eight, and I want to

714
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: read you how it opens. The War of nineteen fourteen

715
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: and nineteen eighteen left in its wake, to a certain

716
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: extent everywhere, and especially in Italy and Germany, a new

717
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: category of white collar proletarians who saw themselves as troubled

718
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: wreckage in a society in which capitalism and the world

719
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: of the working man seemed equally hostile to them. By

720
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: a strange paradox, it was Gabriel de Nunzio, whose lyric

721
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: richness had been so splendid, and who became the poet

722
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: and the prophet of all these pathetic misfits. It was

723
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: he who was the real inventor of fascism. A. Sforza

724
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 1: goes on to note quote it was de Nunzio who

725
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: invented those dialogues with the crowd, which fascism later on

726
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: found so useful. At the piazzaive an Easia in Rome,

727
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: to whom shall fume belong? De Nunzio called down from

728
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 1: the capital balcony, and the mob of volunteers who had

729
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: invaded Fume thundered from below to us and the poet,

730
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: dictator and Italy, and the mob once more a noir

731
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: to us. This, to us later gave the key to

732
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: the real love of De Nunzio for the fatherland, a

733
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: love of possession, not a love of devotion and sacrifice.

734
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: Lucy Hughes Hallett writes, though Denunzio was not a fascist,

735
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: fascism was de Nunzian, and I think that really gets

736
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: at the core of it. He personally was a weirder,

737
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: more complicated guy. He didn't mean to invent fascism, but

738
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: the way that he addressed the crowd, the way that

739
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: he worked with the crowd, the way that he riled

740
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: people up. Um, the iconography he used, like the way

741
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: that his soldiers were dressed in like these black leather

742
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: uniforms was copied both by mussolini stormtroopers and later the SS.

743
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: The salute that he invented, you know, and he's he's

744
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: exchanging dozens and dozens of letters with Mussolini before the

745
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: then rises to power like there and and Mussolini's march

746
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: on Rome is very much an imitation of of the

747
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: Nunzio's March on Fume. Like he he didn't purposefully invent

748
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: fascism because of the man he was, He created it

749
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: as a byproduct of his ego. Yeah, well what what

750
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: what date? What year did he die? Ninety eight? Right

751
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: before the war started? Because I know at the time,

752
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: like Mussolini in particular, he was maybe one of the

753
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: first people to really utilize the film industry in his propaganda,

754
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: Like he like made an entire film studio and just

755
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: used it in the late thirties, I think it was

756
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: thirty seven to literally just make propaganda for fascism, and

757
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: there were just so many pro war films that were made, Uh,

758
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: like the Declaration. I guess the Allied Forces was also

759
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: like under the film studio that he like established. But

760
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: I think that union of film and politics, I have

761
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: to say, like probably did Unzio pave that way to

762
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: like this artistic union of of politics and like like

763
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: creative art. The first thing he established in Fume once

764
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: he was in control was a press office. Like he

765
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: was a little too early to really take advantage of television. Um,

766
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: I mean he was, he was filmed a number of times,

767
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: like he clearly saw the potential. But he was a

768
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: propagandist from the beginning, Like that was what he decided

769
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: his his involvement in war should be. And I think

770
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: he was just a little too old to have become

771
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: a fascist dictator. If he'd been born a bit later.

772
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: The man he was the kind of you know, charisma,

773
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: he had, the energy he had. I think that's the

774
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: kind of path he would have been on. It was

775
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: just a little bit early, and he was raised in

776
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: too different of a we've really wanted that as much.

777
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree. I think like Mussolini is like

778
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: a version of like what he could have not become.

779
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: But like it's very I don't know Mussolini him, Yeah,

780
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: Mussolini pretended to be him and it said that like

781
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people say that, like De Nunzio was

782
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: kind of what turned Mussolini was a socialist initially, and

783
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: Denunzio kind of converted him away from that. And then

784
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: Mussolini deliberately aped de Nunzio's like affectations, the way he

785
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: spoke to crowds, the way he addressed people, way he

786
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: patterned himself, um, and just did it with a little

787
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: bit more of a modern tinge to it and more

788
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: use of things like television and the radio, um, and

789
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, than Hitler iterated from that and that was like, yeah,

790
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 1: that's that Tasian flattery, same thing, you know. And I

791
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: think Mussolini and Hitler they both used the mouthpiece of

792
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: their generation, which was like this new filmmaking and and

793
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: and it was film and propaganda and um, if they

794
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: were born at the time of Nunzio with poetry, I'm

795
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: sure it would have been that too. But uh, it's

796
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: interesting because what Mussolini did with filmmaking in Italy was

797
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: really fascinating. And like disturbing at the same time. Um,

798
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: but I think if I think you're right, I think

799
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: if the Nunzio was born a little bit later, he

800
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 1: would have used that mouthpiece the same way he used poetry,

801
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: just to gardner worship and fame and use his like

802
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: poetic verse in a different way. Uh. Yeah, it's a

803
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: pretty cool story. I'm really intrigued. Like I there, he's

804
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: genuinely what you said earlier. I agree with like maybe

805
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating people to have ever lived.

806
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: Like his life at every turn was more absurd than

807
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 1: the last. Yeah, it's kind of hard to really wrap

808
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: your head around, like how much this guy did, how

809
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: bold he was, how awful he was, Like he did

810
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: so much and he did and I had to leave

811
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: out so much, just like make this a comprehensible episode.

812
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: Like I really recommend the biography by Lucy Hughes Howett

813
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: Gabrielle de Nunzio, poet, seducer and preacher of war. It's

814
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 1: fantastic and he is just absolutely a fascinating piece of shit. Yes,

815
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: a fascinating piece of ship. I would agree with that. Yeah,

816
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: he's right up there with l Ron Hubbard in my

817
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: list of like, fuck, what a life. Genuinely, what a

818
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 1: life he got away with all of this? What a

819
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: life he got away? And I'm sure he still has

820
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: a billion of fans out there, you know what I mean, Like,

821
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure he has. His work is obviously respected. Still

822
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: he's still deemed it poet. Yeah, his poetry, his books

823
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: have kind of fallen out of favor, and our scene

824
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: is sort of like, you know, they were great, they

825
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 1: were good in their time and respecting their time, they

826
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: haven't really continue to have legs. I think his poetry

827
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: does still have legs. He's still highly regarded as a poet. Um.

828
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: I'm obviously not equipped or qualified to comment on Italian

829
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: poetry or his place in there, but a lot of

830
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: experts put him as regard him highly in that field. Um. Yeah,

831
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,439
Speaker 1: it's something else. Huh. Yeah, I'm I've learned a lot.

832
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot, and I don't know. I hate

833
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: how indestructible he was. I really hate that. But I

834
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: mean it's like it's one of those things it's hard

835
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 1: to even get that. Like he does in his life

836
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: kind of unhappily, like Mussolini doesn't care about him or

837
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: respect him, he uses his his tactics and like, uh,

838
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: sort of treats him as a like a like a

839
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: pet almost like yeah, brings him out to like burnish

840
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: the regime's credibility, but ignores him and what he has

841
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: to say. And it's really like bums out and infuriates

842
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: de n Zio. But it's hard to take too much

843
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: joy in that because it means Mussolini's in charge. Yeah,

844
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: we don't win either way. We don't win. Wait, wait,

845
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: what how did he die? What was the cause of death? Oh?

846
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: I think it was like a stroke or some ship.

847
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: He's an old, old man, you know, it's not even

848
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: like a sex. There's rumors he was poisoned by a

849
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 1: Nazi agent, but I don't, I don't hear, I don't.

850
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: I don't know see any evidence behind them. I think

851
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: it's more likely he was an old man who had

852
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 1: horribly advanced syphilis and had been doing cocaine for like

853
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: a decade straight, or more like for probably for decades.

854
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: But I mean even with the syphilis into cocaine to

855
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: make it to seventy, like, yeah, that's a full life,

856
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: a good run. He had a good run. He had

857
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: a very full life. Yeah, leave anything on the table.

858
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: You can say that. Wow, So Sharine, Yes, as this

859
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: influence your own your own desires in your career as

860
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: a as a poet trying to figure out the best

861
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: way to it, you could lead an armed march on

862
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: the city of Fume. Yeah. I mean it's been a

863
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: while since there was a poet that I don't know

864
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: it was worshiped. I'm an audition for that role, you know. Wow,

865
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't know poech I mean, I love poetry. Poetry

866
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: is powerful, but he really he really went a different

867
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 1: route with it, didn't any Yeah, he was a living

868
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: monument to the power of narcissism. Yeah, speaking of narcissism,

869
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: you want to plug your plug doubles, Yes, I do. Um,

870
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: I'm Sharn and I'm a filmmaker, I'm a poet and

871
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: I also co host Ethnically Ambiguous on the I Heart

872
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: Radio network. You can thought every podcast app w go

873
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: listen to it on your favorite one if you want to.

874
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: And Um, I'm Shiro Hero on instagram s h E

875
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: R O H E r oh and then on Twitter

876
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: at your hero six six six. And I have a

877
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: poetry book on Amazon called Dime Peace Like the like

878
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: a coin dime, and then piece like a piece of

879
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: a puzzle, and then I'm making my next one, So

880
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: stay tuned for that. If you want watch my stuff,

881
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: I don't care, just to be nice to me. You

882
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 1: can find me on the twits and the grams and

883
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: the twin stagrams at behind the Bastards. Uh. Well, nope,

884
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: that's not where you can find me. You can find

885
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: me on the twitters at I right, okay. You can

886
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: find this podcast on the twitters and the grams at

887
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: Bastards pod. You can find us on the internet behind

888
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 1: the Bastards dot com. Um, and you can find your

889
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: way uh into having an immortal impact on the future

890
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: by joining my upcoming cult. Um. It's gonna be a

891
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: really good time. Um. We're gonna lead a march on.

892
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 1: I don't know what city would be easy to capture.

893
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: I feel like Sacramento wouldn't put up a fight. Roseville, Roseville, Roseville.

894
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: We'll continue. You hit us up on Twitter with which

895
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: city you think we should lead an armed march on

896
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: to conquer? Yeah, we'll figure it out. Um, that's the

897
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: fucking episode. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's I always

898
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: learned so much. I always leave feeling so dead inside.

899
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: Didn't think it was possible to get more dead inside.

900
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: But you know what that podcast America Feel Dead Inside Again. Yeah,

901
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: that's the tagline to this podcast, right, so if we

902
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: need to get some hats made, No, thanks for having me, yeah,

903
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: thanks for being on