1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, we are returning to you with a 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: classic episode from twenty nineteen which absolutely rocked our world. 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: It's a story not often told in the West. It's 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: about a guy named Hong chi Huan who calls himself 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: the younger brother of Jesus Christ. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: I don't remember that chapter that Jesus had a younger brother. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be fun? 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Well you might not either. 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: That's because it isn't in the Bible. But Hong believed 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: himself to be related to Jesus Christ. He was a 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: school teacher, and he had a bit of a mental 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: health crisis after failing his scholarly exams that seemed to 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: result in a series of visions that showed him his 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: true calling and his destiny. 15 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird because a lot pretty often in history 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: when people have these visions, they never get a vision 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: of them being an unimportant person. 18 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 3: Is that weird? Now? 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: Usually a little bit self aggrandizing. It's almost as if 20 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: the vision was within you. 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: Yes, just so, And our pal Hog doesn't become some 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: itinerant guy just telling people he knows Jesus Christ personally. 23 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: His visions end up sparking one of the deadliest rebellions 24 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: in all of Chinese history. A twist ending Let's roll 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: the tape. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio. 26 00:01:34,840 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeart Radio. Hi everyone, 27 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. In a previous episode, you may 28 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: have noticed that I took great pride in dropping the 29 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: C word cult. Cult itself can be a dicey phrase, right, 30 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: Most people who are participated in a religious organization do 31 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: not care for their organization to be referred to as 32 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: a cult. 33 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: Well, one's one man's religion. It's another man's cult, sure, 34 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: man or woman or whatever have you. It's a very 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: divisive term because it's thrown around as a term of abuse. 36 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 2: But there certainly our criteria when you check the boxes 37 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: that tend to line up more with cult than religion. 38 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, way back in the day, my pal Matt 39 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: and our mutual pal Matt Frederick, we made a great 40 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: video about how to tell whether or not you are 41 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: in a cult. Please do check it out on YouTube 42 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you watch videos. Stuff. They want you to 43 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: know how to start a cult. I can't remember. And 44 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: you know, we all like the idea right of starting 45 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: a cult? Do we well, I just assume you don't 46 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: like that idea, you know, on my go to I 47 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: feel like it's a natural tendency. I feel like in 48 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: another life, I've probably started several cults. But if you 49 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: think about it, if you take away the glamour, it's 50 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: a very tedious life. It's a lot of work. Whether 51 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: you're just a follower of a cult or you're the 52 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: leader of a cult, you're basically on call all the time. 53 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: You don't really get vacation. You probably don't make a 54 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: lot of money. We always hear about these famous violent cults, 55 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: but what about those cult leaders who are out there, 56 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: you know, just grind it every day. They got like 57 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: fifteen people with them. And what about the cult leaders 58 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: the time forgot ben? What about them? What of them? 59 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: I am glad you asked nol and we Oh, we've 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: also got to alert our super producer, Casey Pegrim Casey. 61 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: This is going to be a weird one. I'm absolutely 62 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: in the cult of Casey. 63 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: By the way, yeah, yeah, yeah, the coec see takes time. 64 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Are you do you subscribe to the newsletter. 65 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: I subscribe to the newsletter. I get the Spotify playlists. 66 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: I'm all about it I do. I like to wait 67 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: for his yearly donation period, because if you put in 68 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: fifty bucks, you get the tote bag, but if you 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: put in seventy five bucks, you get the tote bag 70 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: and the water bottle. The CC is like the NPR 71 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: of cults. It really is, it really is. I appreciate 72 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: those pledge drives, Casey, And speaking of cult leaders, today's 73 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: story takes us to China in the early eighteen hundreds. 74 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: There is a guy named Hong Si Kwan, and we're 75 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: we're mispronouncing this name, Hong. 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna mispronounce it even worse than you beats. So 77 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 2: you're doing a fine job. 78 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: Oh no, not really. So this this guy, Hong Si 79 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: Quan's call him Hong x sure yeah, is born on 80 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: January first, eighteen fourteen. He's in New Year's Baby, and 81 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: he is the third and youngest son of a poor 82 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: Hawka family. His story gets propagandized pretty heavily as it 83 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: goes on. So now his origins are a little bit 84 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: the sources are a little bit contradictory. Some people say 85 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: he was poor, some people say his family was well 86 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: to do. But you know, one man's palace is another 87 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: man's dumpster. Right, this kind of the idea of success 88 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: is relative. But let's learn a little bit more about 89 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: Hong haung x as you call him, Noel. What do 90 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: we know about this guy? 91 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: Well, we know that he had the dream in his heart, 92 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: the twinkle in his eye. He wanted to grow up 93 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: and be a scholar. In order to do that, it's 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: sort of like studying for the bar. Right to be 95 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: a scholar in this period in Chinese history, you had 96 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: to take this test. You had to memorize these Confucian 97 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: texts and take these things called the Imperial Exams. It 98 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: was the equivalent of going to college or you know, 99 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: getting your SATs or whatever. So all of that kind 100 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: of combined into this life or death test more like 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: the bar because it was like it was such a 102 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: big deal. You'd study for it so much that if 103 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: you failed it, it was a really crushing blow. And 104 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: nobody wants to take the bar twice. Thusly, no one 105 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: wanted to take the Imperial Exams twice. 106 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: Unfortunately. Oh by the way, less than one percent. 107 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 2: Of the people who took the test pass and Hong 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: was among those that did not. 109 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, the Imperial Exams are a big, big, big deal, 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: and that attrition rate is nasty. It is not something 111 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: to mess with. Hong, however, does not give up. He 112 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: decides to will retake the exams. He travels to a 113 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: city in the south, Guangzhou, and he decides he's going 114 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: to take the exams again in eighteen thirty six. This 115 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: city is amazing at this time. It's a port. It's 116 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,679 Speaker 1: a set of culture for the Qing dynasty. But with 117 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: all this culture and with all this population and all 118 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: this trade, there comes a dark side. You see, a 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: lot of the trade that goes through this port city 120 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: comes from the West, and the West at this time 121 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: has one big, big product that they are pushing into 122 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: Chinese markets. That's right. 123 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: The British were a huge part of this culture, and 124 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: they were bringing in lots of opium that they were 125 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: growing in India, where they also held imperial rule essentially, 126 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: and they were you know, they didn't have they didn't 127 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: hold sway over China per se, but there was a 128 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: pretty serious foothold that they had in the Chinese Empire 129 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: in the Qing dynasty, correct, Ben. 130 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right. So the problem here is 131 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: that the country of China is producing all this really 132 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: cool stuff that the British forces want tea and t 133 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: find China. They literally call the porcelain find China and silk, 134 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: of course, and the British don't really have a lot 135 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: of stuff that China wants, so there's a trade deficit. 136 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: They do, however, have that opium growing in India, and 137 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: they double down on this. They're flooding the markets with 138 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: opium to the point that it is destabilizing Chinese society. 139 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: But you see, not every import is a tangible thing. 140 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: Ideas are just as valuable and indeed just as dangerous 141 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: as opium, silk, Find China or what have you. So 142 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: Hong is walking through the streets of this city thinking 143 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: about his exam when he hears a missionary from the 144 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: far flung shores of North America proselytizing, which means, you know, 145 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: attempting to convert people to his religion, to Christianity. And 146 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: this guy doesn't speak Chinese, he doesn't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin, 147 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: but he has an interpreter with him. So picture if 148 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: you will, you're a kid, You're Hong Ectu're walking through 149 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: these crowded, bustling streets and you see a guy probably 150 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: standing on an apple box or crate, you know, just 151 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: yelling out in English, save yourselves, learn the truth, so 152 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: and so, and then there's an interpreter who has to listen. 153 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of a lag. Sure, And 154 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: I don't know whether the interpreter is just calmly remarking 155 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: on the things this guy is yelling about, but I 156 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: hope he's yelling too at a slight time delay. I 157 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: too would like to believe that. Ben. So what happens. 158 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: Hong hears him, right. 159 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 2: He hears him, and he doesn't think too much of 160 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: it at the time, but he at least you know, 161 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: he's gonna he's not gonna be rude. 162 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: He takes the pamphlet. He's got it. 163 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: You gotta take the pamphlet. So he takes the pamphlet, 164 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: folds it up, saves it for later. And it turns 165 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: out that it will end up having a massive impact 166 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 2: on Hong, but not until after this next phase of 167 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: the story, where and he fails the exam again and 168 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: then proceeds to have something of what you might call 169 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: a psychotic breakdown. 170 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, a complete and utter meltdown, nervous breakdown. He 171 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: fails the exam twice, and then he takes it a 172 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: third time a year later, and he fails the third time. 173 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: That's right, and this, yeah, this pushes him to the edge. 174 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: He goes home. He says, I feel sick, and he 175 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: lays down and he has a fever dream or a. 176 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: Vision, a series of visions and feversam and he really 177 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: seems sick, like he seems physically ill. His complexion is 178 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: all pallid, he is sweating, he is feverish. His parents 179 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 2: are very very concerned about him. So he in his 180 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 2: let's some let's walk through this, yeah, yeah, walk through 181 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: the vision or the hallucinations. Yeah, so he is, it's amazing, 182 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 2: It's just amazing. This is like like this should be 183 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: a movie. So he hallucinates that he takes a trip, 184 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: a sojourn to some sort of paradise, a heavenly land 185 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: in the east, and then his father reveals to him 186 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: that there are demons that are destroying humanity. 187 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: All right, yeah, I mean I get it, You're on board. 188 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So then of course he has to have 189 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: a special magical sword. He gets a magical sword that's 190 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 2: bestowed upon him by his father, and then with the 191 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: help of his brother, they fight the demons and what 192 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: he refers to as the King of Hell. 193 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: Yes, after the battle, he doesn't wake up. After the battle, 194 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: he stays in heaven. He gets a wife and they 195 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: have a child together. Eventually he returns to Earth bearing 196 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: his new title Heavenly King, Lord of the Kingly Way. Way. 197 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: His family is not one hundred percent on board with this. 198 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: Well, no, because from where they stand, he's just been 199 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: tossing and turning around in bed for days. I mean 200 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: there's no not exactly a specific timeline, but I can't 201 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: imagine this happened over a period of time. And he 202 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: just seems like he's losing it. And he, you know, 203 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: he goes from being fully asleep to turning around in 204 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 2: bed and screaming you know, nonsense syllables, to jerking up 205 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: right and assuming a fighting stance, and then going back 206 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 2: to bed. I mean, just you know, really really not well. 207 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 2: And he finally wakes up and he explains to his 208 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: parents the dream and he had written like this in 209 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: the form of poetry that he kind of like dream 210 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: journaled when he woke up. It's pretty impressive. 211 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: Oh, and he also came back with the name Hong 212 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: Shi Kwan because his original name was Hong Ho s Yu. 213 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: But that father figure he meets in the hallucination tells 214 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: him that his given name violates taboos and has to 215 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: be changed. So not only is he waking up it's very, 216 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: very fantastic story, he's also waking up with a different name. 217 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: Everybody in the village thinks this guy is bonkers. If 218 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: this guy were a breakfast, he would be nuts and bananas. 219 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: It's true, is that a breakfast? Well, yeah, you could 220 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: eat like nuts and badana. 221 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: People do that all the time, really like together, like 222 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: mixed up with what with oats? 223 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: Maybe, sure, oats? Probably yogurt? Okay, people. Yogurt people are crazy, man, 224 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: They'll put anything in yogurt. Okay. 225 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: From now on, I think when we say something is insane, 226 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: we should refer to it as yogurt. 227 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: You know what, Let's give it a spin, Let's take 228 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: it around. He would make that. Let's we can make 229 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: that that catch on it. We might have enemies with 230 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: big yogurt. 231 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: But but yeah, so Hong has gone full yogurt and 232 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: he is looked upon a skance by the people of 233 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: the village. 234 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: But he's able, he's able to put it behind him. Yeah, 235 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: he gets better quickly, he bounces back. I know. 236 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: He decides to take the exam a fourth time because 237 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: of what worked out. 238 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: What happens. He fails, He fails again. He fails a 239 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: four time again. It's a very very difficult exam. There's 240 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: a lot of corruption involved. Only one percent of the 241 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: people who take it will will succeed. 242 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: The one percent of the one percent of the one 243 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: percent kind of and seems like a bit of a 244 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: classist kind of thing, where. 245 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean you have to every what isn't classes. 246 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's fair, But what I'm saying is it doesn't 247 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: seem to be entirely merit based. Maybe like certain people 248 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: have a leg up in passing the exams. 249 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely so. He is. He's still in his twenties 250 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: at this time, and he has failed this exam, but 251 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: thankfully not once, not twice, not three four times, And 252 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: he still has a certain pamplet. 253 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: He has that pamphlet. He finds it neatly folded in 254 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: his pristinely pressed tunic. 255 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: Right. I don't know about that. 256 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: I'm editorializing here, but he definitely finds it somewhere and 257 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: he still to make some connections, doesn't he, because the 258 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: tract actually portrayed China as this kind of post apocalyptic wasteland, 259 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: which wasn't terribly far off from the truth. I mean, 260 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: there was certainly some hyperbole here, but this these opium 261 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: wars and the opium addictions that ravids China really destabilized 262 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: the country from eighteen thirty nine to eighteen forty two, 263 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: and finally it ended with the Treaty of Nanjing, which 264 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: really gave Britain the upper hands and allowed them to 265 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: be much more of a colonizer, you know, of China. 266 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: Right right, absolutely, this is ultimately the reason that so 267 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: many Christian missionaries were able to make it into the 268 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: country and stay there. As Hang is reading this pamphlet, 269 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: he's noticing a stunning similarity between the story of Christianity 270 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: and his personal vision, the one he had thought and 271 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: he had gotten over. He encounters the words of Jesus 272 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: Christ and he becomes convinced. Hong becomes convinced that that 273 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: father figure in his series of visions was the Christian 274 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: God like the God of Abraham, and that the older Brother, 275 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: because remember you mentioned that older brother, and all the 276 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: older Brother was Jesus Christ himself, and the quote King 277 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: of Hell was the serpent in the Garden of Eden, 278 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: and Hong is putting everything together like the very end 279 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: of Usual Suspects when spoiler alert three to one, when 280 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: the investigator starts looking at the bulletin board and notices 281 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: that Kaisers Jose has just been making up stories based 282 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: on what he reads around the room. Bro, I did 283 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: spoiler countdown and plus its way past the statue, you think, so, yeah, yes, 284 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: I mean to scold you. I mean it's fine. So also, 285 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: where does spoilers stop? Man? Is it a spoiler to 286 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: say that Abe Lincoln passes away or that the Titanic sinks? 287 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, we're gonna get some angry emails about 288 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,959 Speaker 2: that one because I didn't spoiler alert it. 289 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: And it is a movie. It is, in fact a movie, 290 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: it's true. So Halling is having this usual Suspect moment 291 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: as he's reading through this pamphlet, and he's like, wait, 292 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: the father in my dream is God the older brother 293 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: in my dream? That's Jesus, the King of Hell? Is 294 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: this serpent from this story? Holy smoked? Put two and 295 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: two together. I am the son of God. 296 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: It's like Darren Aronofsky trying to describe the plot of 297 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 2: one of his movies. 298 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: Right, right, So he doesn't take this revelation as a 299 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: personal thing, he doesn't hold it close to his heart 300 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: and use it as a way to keep his divine 301 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: chin up. Instead, he tells his relatives about his dream, 302 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: and his message begins to spread. He gets followers. He 303 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: must have been very persuasive. 304 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 2: Well, he clearly was tenacious. He kept taking you know, 305 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: he let us, like a little little bit psychotic break 306 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: stop him from trying to take those exams. So he 307 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 2: clearly had drive. And yeah, he had to have been 308 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:24,239 Speaker 2: very charismatic. And his message started spreading like wildfire. 309 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: Cl style, right right. He gathers followers. They go on 310 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: the road to evangelize. Right. They're selling ink and brushes 311 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: to fund their travels, and Hong begins writing his own 312 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: religious works. He writes exportations to worship the One True God, 313 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: and this helps him win more converts. He goes back 314 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: home to work on more religious writing, but his disciples 315 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: continue to travel and they form a group known as 316 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: the God Worshiping Society. There's an interesting sociological aspect here 317 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: because a lot of his original followers are Hakka people, 318 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: the ethnic group Hakka, just like he is, and they 319 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: have a relatively lower position in Chinese society. So this 320 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: is a message that paints a picture of an alternate 321 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: way to live, a world in which you do not 322 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: have to be on the bottom just because of your ethnicity. 323 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 2: Which is interesting because sort of in the same way 324 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: that el Ron Hubbard found that a religion based on 325 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 2: constantly being rejected by science fiction, you know, publishers and 326 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 2: things like that, a spoiler alert out of well that's fair, 327 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: but out of kind of this bitterness and this it 328 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 2: shaped his whole worldview, and Hang was very similar. He 329 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: rejected the Confucianist family ideals and the idea of having 330 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: to be in that one percent of the one percent 331 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 2: of society and pass those tests, and he built an 332 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 2: entirely new philosophy that was it wasn't Chrischristianity exactly. It 333 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: was sort of a twist on Christianity, right, yeah, yeah. 334 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, if you think about it, it's 335 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: a proto version of communism. The stresses sharing property. He 336 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: has religious ideas and laws based on the Ten Commandments 337 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: of Christianity. Importantly, he promises free land to all of 338 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: his followers really, and that's when thousands and thousands more 339 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: people start joining up with Hong and the god worshiping society. 340 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: And they really start to openly reject the Chin norms 341 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 2: of that time. They chop off their braids. They have 342 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: this hairstyle called a queue where you've probably seen it 343 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 2: in films, where their head is shaved, except they have 344 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: like one big long ponytail it's in the back. They 345 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: cut those off. They start wearing these red turbans as 346 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 2: a symbol of their undying allegiance to Hong, and he 347 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 2: even starts preaching this notion that the Manchu were the 348 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 2: very demons that he fought in his battle with the 349 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: King of Hell. 350 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, so this is during the Qing dynasty, right, 351 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 1: and the Qing dynasty was founded by the Manchu people, 352 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: and they are still regarded as foreigners at this time, 353 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, and the Hakka, with 354 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: valid reason, don't care very much for the Manchu. 355 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: Do we mention that the Hakka were kind of already 356 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 2: a bit of a disenfranchised community. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 357 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 2: that's that's key because he was able to capitalize on 358 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 2: those feelings of rejection and isolation and not being part 359 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: of the same cast system that he was rejected from. 360 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: And then when he has the revelation that the demons 361 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: in his vision are the Manchu, you know, he begins, 362 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: as you said, pushing people to violence. And this marks 363 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: the beginning of one of the bloodiest civil wars in 364 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: Chinese history. Within two years, Hong and the God worshiping 365 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: society have captured the city of Nanjing. There is a 366 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: rebellion taking place, folks. Hundreds of thousands of people are 367 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: overthrowing the social status quo. 368 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing too. Hong really starts doubling down 369 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: with his speaking with God kind of angle where he 370 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 2: believes that he has been sent by God as the 371 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: son of God because he is a son of God. 372 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 2: He's not Jesus, he's his other son. He's the younger 373 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: He's the younger brother of Jesus. And he is here 374 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: to change the very course and nature of Chinese society 375 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 2: based on the word of God and what he wants. 376 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 2: So all of in his society, all of his little 377 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: kind of sub offshoot society, all of the beliefs of 378 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: the Chinese, all of the Confucian techts, are burned. All 379 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 2: those beliefs are scattered and rejected. Got rid of every 380 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: single idol or effigy or you know, any anything that 381 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: represented the old way right, and even the outlawed opium 382 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: because that had been a problem. 383 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: They didn't move one. 384 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: That was probably the one one of his good moves. 385 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: And heavily segregated men and women. 386 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: Officially officially, but not for him, No, not for him. 387 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: He had something of a harem in his in his abode. 388 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: Very very common with cult leaders, you know what I mean. 389 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: From l Ron Hubbard in the Sea Org to David Koresh. 390 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: Usually cult leaders have a do as I say, not 391 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: as I do sort of approach to their beliefs and laws. 392 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: Does he also change the calendar? He does? He changes 393 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: the calendar. Dude, that's such a power move. I love 394 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, it's like, all right, I'm in charge. Now, 395 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: April is done. Now we're calling it. Uh hey, Casey. 396 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 3: I knew you were gonna call me. Then I have nothing. 397 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 3: I have nothing to offer on this. 398 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,959 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Okay, you'd rather be on the case than 399 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: on the spot. Ye okay, okay. Uh so we'll say 400 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: instead of instead of April we're gonna call it Lowell, right, sure, 401 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: the month of Lowell. 402 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, or how about grapril Yeah, grapril apris I like that. 403 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: I like that, so uh okay, yeah. I don't mean 404 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: to also casey on the case thank you. I don't 405 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: mean to diminish the suffering that Hang is becoming responsible for. 406 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: What we see happening now is that the Qing dynasty 407 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: notices that society is quickly crumbly. 408 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: Dude in the city of Nanjang, he has amassed an army, 409 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: and in addition to all of his followers, but a 410 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: real legitimate army that can expand this kingdom that he's 411 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: creating all over southern China and ends up with more 412 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: than thirty million people living inside his little sub kingdom 413 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: called the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, which is what they referred 414 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: to their new territory as. And this is a real 415 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 2: threat to. 416 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: The powers that be. I mean, this is huge and 417 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: they will not let this stand right absolutely. We should 418 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: also mention though he did segregate the sexes for his followers, 419 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: he took some steps to try to make women more 420 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: socially equal to men, so it wasn't all terrible stuff. 421 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: But yes, war was very much on the horizon. The 422 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: Qing emperor says, I have to raise troops. This may 423 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: become an existential conflict, and it does. It becomes one 424 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: of the most deadly conflicts in history. So by eighteen 425 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: sixty Hong's people, that Taiping were at the height of 426 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: their power. They were smashing Qing armies that were besieging Nanjing, 427 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: and they were capturing other southern cities Honju Suzu. In 428 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, the same year that the US Civil 429 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: War starts, the Taiping attacked Shanghai. But Shanghai has been 430 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: this international hub, right is where the Western powers go 431 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: and they send their boats and they trade their stuff. 432 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: And that means that the British and French empires are 433 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: not happy to see this fall to a cult movement, 434 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: and the Europeans began to bring in their own forces 435 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: to protect the city. 436 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: Got a question for you, man, that distinction between religion 437 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: and cult or movement and cults. 438 00:26:59,040 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 439 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: I think thirty million. It sort of kicks it out 440 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: of cult territory and it becomes more like. 441 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: A new norm. 442 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, but again we're talking population wise in this in 443 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: the country. 444 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: Just just for a rough ballpark perspective. Calculations estimates put 445 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: the population of China or the Ching Empire at this 446 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: time around just under three hundred million. 447 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: Got it, so no, no small potatoes, thirty million, but 448 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: still certainly not taking hold in a widespread way. 449 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, that's thirty million, lot. 450 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,719 Speaker 2: Oh, it's definitely dangerous and they're all hold up, or 451 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: a bunch of them are hold up in this one 452 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: area and are kicking ass. 453 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the European troops arrive to. 454 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 2: Help out their I don't know, buddies, the relationship is 455 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 2: probably a little strange, but it's more to defend their port, right. 456 00:27:54,280 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, the opium must flown, you know. The Europeans 457 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: come with the latest word, the bleeding edge of military technology, 458 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: and they use cannon fire to just tear through the 459 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: Typing rebels. The Qing launches a major counter attack and 460 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: this occurs at the same time. This shatters the Typing 461 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: army and they retreat from the city. They are forced 462 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: onto the defensive, and now the Qing dynasty is receiving 463 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: support from the West. They begin pushing the borders of 464 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: the Heavenly Kingdom back to Nanjing and they're fighting. Think 465 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: of it this way. They're fighting what's called a total 466 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: war in one of the most densely populated areas of 467 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: the planet. Around this time. The country of China alone 468 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: is like thirty percent of the world's population. It's a 469 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: crowded place, and a total war means that everything is 470 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: up for grabs, and everything that can be destroyed probably will. 471 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's no real rules of engagement or anything 472 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: like that. I mean, civilians are at risk, utterly at risk, 473 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: not just being in harm's way, but resources plundering of 474 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 2: villages from the opposition. When they sack a town or whatever, 475 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: they just take what they want and food becomes scarce. 476 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 2: People actually begin to starve to death in the streets. 477 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 2: So I think we're talking millions of people that died brutally. 478 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, the violence combined with the famine led 479 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: to millions of deaths. If this were a film, let's 480 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: cut to Hong Hong is becoming increasingly yogurt. He has 481 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: withdrawn from running his kingdom during the day to day affairs, 482 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: directing the armies, rallying the troops. Instead, he hanged out 483 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: in his palace with his harem, with his concubines. His 484 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: generals begin to fill the vacuum of power, and this 485 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: leads to a lot of internal conflict and fracturing of 486 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: the kingdom. Hong begins to you know, suspect members of 487 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: his inner circle of being traders, and he has very 488 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: valid reasons for this. By eighteen sixty four, the Qing 489 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: armies are at the gates of the city and Hong's general, 490 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: a guy named Lee Sucheng, demands that Hong gtfo right, 491 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: get get out of the city. 492 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 2: And now they are who they've been, you know, forced 493 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: into retreat and they're holed up behind walls. They've run 494 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: a food as well. So what does Hong do? He says, Uh, 495 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 2: We're just gonna drink tears from heaven, you know, eat 496 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 2: mana from heaven? 497 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: What mana like? 498 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: That's like magical energy juice like from the Final Fantasy Games, 499 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: I think, But no, he says, And what he was 500 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: referring to were like he basically said that God will 501 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: nourish us with whatever we put into our bodies. This 502 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 2: is so crazy, it's so crazy, it almost seems made up, 503 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: but it's the crazy at So he plucks this. 504 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: What does he do? 505 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: He plucks a weed from the ground and eats it 506 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: as a sign they like, see, I'm on board with you, 507 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: you know, like I'm just like you guys. And it's 508 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: turns out to be deadly poison and he dies. 509 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeap, just on a fluke totally, you know. Oh 510 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: good God. 511 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 2: And then as teenage son kind of steps in and 512 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 2: replaces him, but it's too late that the chain are 513 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: at the gates. Like we said, they eventually kick down 514 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: the doors. Blood bath ensues night Night Kingdom of Heaven. 515 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: And the typing rebellion is put down. Estimates very widely, 516 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: depending on which historical sources you encounter. You will see 517 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: the estimate of the death toll here ringing in it 518 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: anywhere between twenty two seventy million people. That makes it 519 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: one of the deadliest conflicts in human history, and it 520 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: shaped China and therefore the world in ways that carry 521 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: over even today in twenty nineteen, all because one guy 522 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: had a vision. You know, what if he have passed 523 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: his exams? You always have to wonder. It's kind of 524 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: like what if Hitler got accepted into art school. Yeah, 525 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, that's true. 526 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's with the repeated rejection that 527 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: really caused him to break. But you gotta wonder too, 528 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: something was off in this guy, So he would have 529 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 2: done some weird stuff in either way. 530 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you have to wonder about the country as well. 531 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: If not him, would some other kind of event have occurred, 532 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. 533 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true because the history of China is largely 534 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 2: a series of peasant uprisings, as of the case for 535 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: many histories, like the French Revolution, the American earlier. It's 536 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: all about rising up against the oppressor, perceived or otherwise. 537 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: And the dynasty system was so entrenched culturally that it 538 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 2: was immovable, and so it makes sense that, Like, but 539 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: what's so funny, Ben, though, is what's happening is you replace, 540 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: you knock down a dynasty, and then you replace it 541 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: with your own dynasty, and you become the same thing 542 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: that you hated and we're fighting against in the first place. Absolutely, 543 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: it happens every time. Maybe one time it'll be different. 544 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 2: Probably not, Okay, probably now look forward to it. I'm 545 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: holding my breath. So history tells us that the world 546 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 2: is rife, The world is overflowing with would be messiahs. 547 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: We are lousy with people who suspect that they have 548 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: divine right to one thing or another, and the modern 549 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 2: age is no different. It's easy for us to say, wow, 550 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 2: that sounds crazy, what the heck was going on in 551 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds, But you have to realize in twenty nineteen, 552 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,239 Speaker 2: there are plenty of groups in the United States, in 553 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: your home country and your neck of the global woods. 554 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: I guarantee you there is someone right now who believes 555 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 2: that they are either God or the avatar of God, 556 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 2: or the younger brother of a divine figure. Yeah, first 557 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 2: cousin whatever, Sure, Yeah, why not, man, somebody's got to 558 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: be more power to you. Just trying not to, you know, 559 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: foment any bloody uprisings. 560 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, do your best, do your best, do your best, 561 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: be a good citizen. This was such a crazy story. 562 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: It's a story that a lot of Westerners are not 563 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: familiar with it. 564 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: And how insane is it that a story involving the 565 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 2: death of twenty to seventy million human beings that took 566 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: place over fifteen years at the hands of a psychotic 567 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 2: Christian death cult leader not really a death call, but certainly, 568 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I stand, we stand by the whole cult thing. 569 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 2: How crazy is that we don't know about that. They 570 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: don't teach that in history class. 571 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's interesting. It sounds weird because 572 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: we do host the history show, but a lot of 573 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: stuff happened. Yeah, I don't know, Casey. I'm not going 574 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: to put you out in spy here. I just want 575 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: to know. Had you ever heard of this story? 576 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 3: No, this is like all completely new to me in 577 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 3: my mind. Is thoroughly blown. 578 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah, yeah, bonkers? And how has there not been 579 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 2: a film of this as well? Seems very good film fodder. 580 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: When you Yeah, when you first mentioned it, I was 581 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: thinking of Scorsese's Silence, which is also concerns Christianity in Japan. 582 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 3: That's right, and it's kind of somebody also having maybe 583 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: a little bit of a savior complex or something. But 584 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 3: a different era, different country, different culture, very different. But 585 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 3: you know it kind of brought that to mind. 586 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much. So well, I don't know. 587 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: I think I think the story speaks for itself. I 588 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 2: think we've said it all, so I think it's time 589 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 2: to wrap it up. 590 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: Man, what do you say? I never want a cult 591 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: story to end, but yeah, I guess I guess I 592 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: got it. 593 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 2: All good cult things must come to an. 594 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: Appan I know, I know, and you know when you've 595 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: started as many as I have, eventually you wanted. 596 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 2: To feel I said that was in another life. 597 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: Totally so. Thanks to Christopher Hasiotis, Thanks to our super 598 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram. 599 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 2: Thanks to research associate and pal Gabe Lucier. Thanks to 600 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 2: Alex Williams, who composed. 601 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: Our Thanks to you, Noel. Thanks to you listeners for 602 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 1: giving this episode a spin. If the spirit so moves you, 603 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 1: why not drop by your podcast platform of choice and 604 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: toss us a rating or review. Yeah, we'd really appreciate it. 605 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: You can also join us on our Facebook fan page 606 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: or community page whatever you want to call it, which 607 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: is ridiculous historians. We are on the usual platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. 608 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 2: You can also follow me personally on Instagram at Embryonic Insider. 609 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: And you can find me on Instagram as well. I 610 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: am at ben Bowlin. So let us let us know 611 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: about the local movements, communes, or dare we say, cults 612 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: in your neck of the global woods. Do you think 613 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: these groups are innocuous? Do you think they are malevolent? 614 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: If so, why or why not? And I'm especially interested 615 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: to hear stories of local cults that most people outside 616 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: of the area don't know about. Yeah, like Zendig Farms. Yeah, hey, yeah, 617 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: Zendig Farms. There are a ton of Florida just to 618 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: the south of us, very strange ones too, But yeah, 619 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: let us know. We'll see you next time, folks. 620 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 621 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 622 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 623 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.