WEBVTT - Ruth Ben-Ghiat, Kurt Anderson & Ian Dunt

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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<v Speaker 1>where we discuss the top political headlines with some of

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<v Speaker 1>today's best minds. And Alex Jones is mad at Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump for distancing himself from Project twenty twenty five. Don't worry,

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<v Speaker 1>little buddy, He's going to do all of it. We

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<v Speaker 1>have such a great show for you today. Kurt Anderson

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<v Speaker 1>stops by to talk about the fun little pranks he

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<v Speaker 1>played on Donald Trump and how the memory haunts him

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<v Speaker 1>to this day. Then we'll talk to author and scholar

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<v Speaker 1>Ruth ben Guillatt about the bad week the far right

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<v Speaker 1>is having across the globe. But first we have the

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<v Speaker 1>host of the Origin Story podcast, our friend in the UK,

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<v Speaker 1>Ian Dunt. It is with great pleasure, joy and honor

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<v Speaker 1>that we have a reason to talk to one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite people, Ian Dunt, and he's looking pretty smug

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<v Speaker 1>right now because the UK has, for the first time

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<v Speaker 1>in fourteen years, elected a government that doesn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>destroy itself discuss let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>Congratulations Ian, Thank you very much. I think what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>experiencing is joy. It's a strange feeling and it's been

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<v Speaker 2>around for about four days now, and each day I

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<v Speaker 2>wake up and be like, what the fuck is going on? Like,

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<v Speaker 2>what is this strange feeling I have in my breast?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it is I think it's optimism, it's joy,

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<v Speaker 2>It's a sense of happiness, boardline euphoria. I just don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how much longer this can go on for, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure I can do like another two or

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<v Speaker 2>three months of this feeling.

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<v Speaker 1>So explain to our listeners what happened. I want the

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<v Speaker 1>election blow by blow. Your polls understated the left, So

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to start there and get going.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I don't know about that, to be honest.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, we had some polls, especially.

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<v Speaker 2>Towards the end, these MRP polls, that were suggesting an

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<v Speaker 2>even higher degree of decimation for the Conservative Party. So

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<v Speaker 2>the end result came in in about kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>middle zone of our polling. I think some of us

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<v Speaker 2>had almost convinced ourselves that we wanted it to get

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<v Speaker 2>even worse for the Conservatives. We were almost disappointed by

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<v Speaker 2>the result. They ended up getting just over one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty seats. We'd sort of dreamt, what if they

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<v Speaker 2>get less than one hundred. Maybe this is the final,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, final stake through the heart of the vampire

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<v Speaker 2>that is the Conservative Party. It isn't right. One hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty seats. That's the worst result that party has

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<v Speaker 2>ever had. I mean, it hasn't performed worse than that

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<v Speaker 2>since eighteen thirty two and we had the Great Reform

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<v Speaker 2>Acts and started to introduce democracy. I mean, basically, that's

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<v Speaker 2>as bad as it gets. And not just that. Not

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<v Speaker 2>only did Labor, the main opposition party and now the government,

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<v Speaker 2>the center left party, have a very very very strong evening,

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<v Speaker 2>by far the best electoral evening has ever had, but

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal Democrats, another center left party, also picked up

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<v Speaker 2>seventy one seats. So what you're looking at now and

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<v Speaker 2>Parliament has just sat for the first time since the election.

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<v Speaker 2>I've literally just switched it off to talk to now,

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<v Speaker 2>is by far the most left wing parliament that this

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<v Speaker 2>country has ever had. And to be honest, I haven't

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<v Speaker 2>checked this, but I think you could start looking around Europe,

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<v Speaker 2>you could start looking around the Western world, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>pretty sure it would be probably the most left wing

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<v Speaker 2>parliament that's around right now in a democratic country. It

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<v Speaker 2>is an absolute triumph for progressive forces in Britain.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, tell me what it was like that day because

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<v Speaker 1>Labor has not been in power for fourteen years, so

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<v Speaker 1>and it's been you know, the head of Lattice woman,

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<v Speaker 1>the thin guy from California and the guy with the

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<v Speaker 1>bad hair. I mean, it's been a string of some

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<v Speaker 1>really bad prime ministers to discuss.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, that's definitely like the worst collection of

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<v Speaker 2>human beings you could have running a country at any

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<v Speaker 2>given time. And you know what, even like they were

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<v Speaker 2>like this to the bitter end, to the bitter bitter end.

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<v Speaker 2>Even in the last week of the campaign, a scandal

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<v Speaker 2>broke that the people around Richisunat the Prime minister had

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<v Speaker 2>gone as soon as they found out when the election

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<v Speaker 2>date was, but before the public knew, had just gone

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<v Speaker 2>down to the local bookies to make a bet on

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<v Speaker 2>when the election was like the most tawdry, low class,

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<v Speaker 2>low grade form of corruption, like the kind of thing

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<v Speaker 2>that if you were in like some tiny Latin American

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<v Speaker 2>dictatorship and just be like, well, obviously I wouldn't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's just too cheap. But it were prepared to do

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<v Speaker 2>it at the height of the Conservative Party. So they

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<v Speaker 2>were committed to the role that they had to give

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<v Speaker 2>and they followed it through to the very end. But

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<v Speaker 2>what's extraordinary about these years, right is you know what

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<v Speaker 2>they're even doing in now, like swella Brotherman, one of

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<v Speaker 2>the right wing figures in the Conservative Party is currently

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<v Speaker 2>in the U of Bes at one of your batshit

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<v Speaker 2>festivals of you know, the far right where they want

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<v Speaker 2>to ban you know, I don't know, you know, embryos

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever it is that they're up to at the moment,

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<v Speaker 2>and she's currently talking about how one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 2>we lost is because I didn't fight hard enough against

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<v Speaker 2>taking down the rainbow flag wherever I saw it. And

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<v Speaker 2>what she's really extraordinary, brother a is It already seems

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<v Speaker 2>like a bad dream to be governed by these people

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<v Speaker 2>with such tiny moral and intellectual characters. But it's more

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<v Speaker 2>than that that their fundamental confusion was just thinking a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of voters like them kind of raised their eyebrow

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<v Speaker 2>at things like that of the rainbow flag, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>political correctness or whatever. But they really don't want government

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<v Speaker 2>ministers to just talk about that all the time rather

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<v Speaker 2>than fixing immigration or healthcare or education. And yet that's

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<v Speaker 2>the trap they fell into, just talking about this pub

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<v Speaker 2>nonsense over and over and over again. Like someone's soul

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<v Speaker 2>sifting itself slowly through a drain, and now finally it's done.

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<v Speaker 2>That sense of palpable anger against them has just fully

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<v Speaker 2>expressed itself, and it's ended up with a situation where

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<v Speaker 2>Labor are triumphant to an extraordinary degree, to the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of degree that you would expect that they're almost certainly

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<v Speaker 2>be in power for longer than ten years.

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<v Speaker 1>So can you explain to me? This is the aftermath

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<v Speaker 1>of a number of really shitty governing decisions, but one

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<v Speaker 1>of which I think is Braxit, and many people one

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<v Speaker 1>of the favorite things that my European friends have liked

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<v Speaker 1>to say to me. I think you may have even

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<v Speaker 1>said this to me, is that you can undo Donald Trump,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can't necessarily undo Brexit. So where are we

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<v Speaker 1>with that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's hard, it's really really difficult to undo it.

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<v Speaker 2>And before you were even thinking about any of the

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<v Speaker 2>logistical problems of undoing it, you have to deal with

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<v Speaker 2>the electoral problem, which is that Brexit split the Labor

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<v Speaker 2>Party right down the middle right, and actually it split

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<v Speaker 2>the Tory Party to a certain extent as well. Those

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<v Speaker 2>liberal Democrat votes that I talked about earlier. There's seventy

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<v Speaker 2>one lived MMPs. Those are mostly people that were in

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<v Speaker 2>typically conservative constituencies, but conservative remainance pro European conservatives. You're

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<v Speaker 2>basically they're never going to vote for labor, but they

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<v Speaker 2>will vote for a sort of center leftist, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>top button done up liberal Democrat party, and that's what

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<v Speaker 2>they did. But for labor, it just cut them through

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<v Speaker 2>the heart because it was once you go into a

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<v Speaker 2>cultural war territory for labor, it's just death. You've destroyed

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<v Speaker 2>its electoral coalition. And Labour's electoral coalition is progressive, very

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<v Speaker 2>very liberal, highly educated white collar workers with much less progressive,

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<v Speaker 2>much more socially conservative blue collar workers, you know, for

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<v Speaker 2>meving like in class industrial baits. Once you start turning

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<v Speaker 2>politics into something that's no longer about economics but is

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<v Speaker 2>about culture, that electoral coalition falls apart. So Keir Starmer,

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<v Speaker 2>the labor leader, his main mission throughout this period is

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<v Speaker 2>essentially kill the culture war. Just eradicate it, Do not

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<v Speaker 2>allow it to take purchase. Do not get involved in

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<v Speaker 2>conversations about you know, trans people in toilets or statues

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, colonial figures that are being pulled down,

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<v Speaker 2>or Brexit or any of these other key note issues

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<v Speaker 2>that trigger cultural war conversations. Just kill that dead and

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<v Speaker 2>focus on the meat and potatoes of what politics is, education,

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<v Speaker 2>health care, public service delivery, taxation, the economy. Bring politics

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<v Speaker 2>back to a reasonable conversation. That's pretty much what he

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<v Speaker 2>succeeded in doing.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is exactly the same thing that happened in France,

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<v Speaker 1>right you see.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a bit of a difference right with

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<v Speaker 2>mccron and Starmer in that regard, because mccron is quite

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<v Speaker 2>proudly open. He would explicitly say I am the opposite

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<v Speaker 2>of Donald Trump. I'm the opposite of Marine Leapen. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I represent the open world economy. Now, that's the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of message that someone like me desperately wants to hear

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<v Speaker 2>from the Keir Starmer. Starmer will never give that message

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<v Speaker 2>hours He's not involved in I'm one side of the

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<v Speaker 2>open closed binary. He's involved in open closed is not

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<v Speaker 2>a thing. We're going back to right and left. We

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<v Speaker 2>have an electoral coalition that can win on right and left.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the debate that we want. Open clothes can absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>get fucked for Starmer. So's he's actually subtly different to mccron.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though they're both called centrists, he's actually quite meaningfully distinct, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's a really good point, and so interesting

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<v Speaker 1>is that they just decided to sort of give up

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<v Speaker 1>on the stuff that you and I both think are

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<v Speaker 1>really important and just get power, which, again on the

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<v Speaker 1>liberal side, you know, there's always a lot of like,

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<v Speaker 1>why don't democrats do that? Or why don't liberals do more?

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff like that is a sort of craven political calculus

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<v Speaker 1>which might be needed to win elections, but doesn't win

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<v Speaker 1>you France, right.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what, here's the thing, right like, and I

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<v Speaker 2>get for Sarch to do with it too. I want obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>what I want is for case time had to come

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<v Speaker 2>out tomorrow dressed in a European flag going hah, fuck

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<v Speaker 2>you guys, I lied the whole way through and now

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<v Speaker 2>we're going back in. Right, of course, that is what

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<v Speaker 2>I want. However, if he'd done that, he would not

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think who would have won the election.

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<v Speaker 1>Well that's the calculus, right, right.

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<v Speaker 2>And then yesterday the Rwanda plan was killed. Rwanda was

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<v Speaker 2>a scheme to take asylum seekers and send them to Rwanda,

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<v Speaker 2>and it wasn't to process them in Rwan. It was

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<v Speaker 2>to send them there, regardless of whether they were found

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<v Speaker 2>to be a legitimate asylum seeker, a refugee or not, or.

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<v Speaker 1>Even if they were from Rwanda.

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<v Speaker 2>Right right, Well, you know what the fund of the

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<v Speaker 2>irony is. We grant asylum to people from Rwanda when

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<v Speaker 2>they asked for it in the UK, and yet here

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<v Speaker 2>we are sending people to Rwanda, going, oh, it's perfectly

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<v Speaker 2>say to send asilum teacause they obviously it isn't demonstrably

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<v Speaker 2>not by virtue of your own judgment. Now that is

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<v Speaker 2>just a moral corrosion. Rights, that's the soul of a

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<v Speaker 2>country just fucking disintegrating in front of your eyes. Now

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<v Speaker 2>it's canceled, and you get it from the far left,

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<v Speaker 2>the Corbyn left, which I don't want to say it's

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<v Speaker 2>like the Sanders left in the US, because I think

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<v Speaker 2>Bernie Sanders is a far superior, much more intellectual and

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<v Speaker 2>moral unba.

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<v Speaker 1>Sanders is in the tent whereas Corbin is not.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They are kind of allies and they clearly both admire

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<v Speaker 2>each other.

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<v Speaker 1>But Sanders is crafting legislation whereas Corbin is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, but go on, yeah, so the Corbyn guys.

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<v Speaker 2>The far left in Britain are by far the most upset.

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<v Speaker 2>They're much more upset than the Conservatives, you know, because

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<v Speaker 2>to see the center left come in is like their

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<v Speaker 2>worst nightmare. They don't even really recognize that a right

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<v Speaker 2>wing exists, you know. It's sort of their only real

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<v Speaker 2>emotional and intellectual preoccupation is the battle within the left

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<v Speaker 2>in Britain. It's the battle for the Labor Party rather

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<v Speaker 2>than the battle for the country.

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<v Speaker 3>And they're terribly upset.

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<v Speaker 2>But you sort of think, look, can you honestly not

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<v Speaker 2>realize now what there is to be gained by making

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<v Speaker 2>compromises and yes, by being really pragmatic and practical and

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<v Speaker 2>just thinking not about your ideals or your conscience. But

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<v Speaker 2>what does it take to win? Like, what does it

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<v Speaker 2>take to get those guys, to get the Conservatives and

0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.040
<v Speaker 2>just bury them in the fucking ground and try and

0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.440
<v Speaker 2>undo some of the damage that has been done to

0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.520
<v Speaker 2>this country and to his reputation and to his moral

0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 2>standing over the last fourteen years like purity, Political purity

0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.320
<v Speaker 2>accomplishes nothing, but if you win, you can scrap the

0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Rowander scheme, which is what we finally see. And for

0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.360
<v Speaker 2>that I have to say, I am just tremendously grateful,

0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.560
<v Speaker 2>even though I accept that I myself am not hugely

0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.640
<v Speaker 2>inspired by the kind of you know, political ideology that's

0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:44.839
<v Speaker 2>been put forward by kit Start.

0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.600
<v Speaker 1>So he really is just a sort of very moderate centrist.

0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:52.440
<v Speaker 2>He's an odd guy.

0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:52.680
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 2>He uses words which political people don't use.

0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Interesting.

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.240
<v Speaker 2>One of these words is service, and the the other

0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 2>one is dignity, and it's odd, right, Like, as soon

0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.040
<v Speaker 2>as someone in this country, I know it's slightly different

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:06.640
<v Speaker 2>in the US, but as soon as someone in this

0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.880
<v Speaker 2>country uses the word class, we know who they are.

0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.600
<v Speaker 2>They're are socialists. If they use the word liberty or freedom,

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.400
<v Speaker 2>we know that they're a liberal. If they use the

0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.880
<v Speaker 2>word tradition, we know they're a conservative. His language is rhetoric,

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really fit into any of the normal categories. So

0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.640
<v Speaker 2>for a long time we all thought, you know what,

0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.880
<v Speaker 2>he's just a kind of Hallmark's card nothingness. He's just

0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 2>saying these kind of sort of harmless sort of banalities. Really,

0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 2>but it's not right, I don't think once you start

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.240
<v Speaker 2>reading about his life story, I mean, he was a

0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.280
<v Speaker 2>human rights lawyer when he came out of university, and

0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.440
<v Speaker 2>he was living with his friends above what was basically

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.000
<v Speaker 2>a brothel, was a sort of massage partner, and one

0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.280
<v Speaker 2>of his friends came back and found out that he

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.560
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't and he really telling anyone. He'd just been offering

0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 2>this free legal advice to the women who worked in

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.120
<v Speaker 2>that shop. When they were quite startled by it, he went,

0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 2>would these women just have to be treated with respect? Now?

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Take that and then think about the way that he

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.560
<v Speaker 2>talks about football. He was really into his football, but

0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 2>when he talked talks about local football teams. He doesn't

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.360
<v Speaker 2>really talk about the sport. What he says is that

0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.360
<v Speaker 2>a local football team is the source of a town's pride,

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:12.160
<v Speaker 2>sense of dignity. He has this constant focus, especially through

0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.920
<v Speaker 2>people's work, especially when they're in manual labor, that they

0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:18.120
<v Speaker 2>should be treated with respect, that they should live a

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.080
<v Speaker 2>dignified working life where they're paid enough to have a

0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 2>dignified life. In the way that they organize their family

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 2>and their local community. So all of that it is

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of meaningful, you know, And I think it's it's

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a really from an American position I think would be

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 2>considered really quite on the left. I mean, he talks

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.160
<v Speaker 2>about himself as socialist, but it's always framed in these

0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 2>terms of dignity for the people and service from the

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 2>government to the people. And that's the kind of language

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 2>that he uses, and I think it sounds quite harmless,

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 2>it can see. Always actually a pretty left wing agenda.

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Hmmm, interesting a level left wing agenda, you do, I know,

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.199
<v Speaker 1>you do? Tell me what else is happening there, Nigel Farage,

0:13:58.240 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 1>that fucking.

0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Guy go, Yes, the human dust spin with the smell

0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 2>of ash.

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know if Roger Stone more slightly

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:07.679
<v Speaker 1>more legitimate.

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's as if you know, you're sat on the couch,

0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 2>as you say, and your fingers go down as you

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 2>get bored and goes under anything. You just feel this

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 2>really kind of wet, sticky, disgusting old substance somehow attached

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 2>to your finger. And that's basically what Nigel Faraja's soul

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.600
<v Speaker 2>looks like. So he is the leader of the Reform Party.

0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a very very right wing party. Although to be honest,

0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, the same thing has happened to the Conservatives

0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>parties that has happened to the Republicans, which is it

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 2>has absorbed so much of the populous right that it

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.320
<v Speaker 2>really is quite hard to tell the difference between them.

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.680
<v Speaker 2>But he is further to the right than the Conservative

0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Party and there is no meaningful liberal conservative tradition within him.

0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 2>He managed to secure for the first time five seats

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 2>in parliament. He's never been able to get into parliament before.

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>He's got a foothold. We are much more like the

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>US than we are like Europe in terms of our

0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.280
<v Speaker 2>electoral system. You know, the proportional representation electoral system that

0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.840
<v Speaker 2>you get in every other European country would allow a

0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.680
<v Speaker 2>populist right party to have pretty hefty representation all the time.

0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.280
<v Speaker 2>We're not like that. We're first passed the post like

0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 2>you guys do, so they never really get a foothold.

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 2>They have this time, and incidentally, so did the Green Party.

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.760
<v Speaker 2>The Green Party used to have one MP and that

0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.119
<v Speaker 2>has four MPs. What you're seeing is just this desire

0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.880
<v Speaker 2>to break away from the two party binary to basically

0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 2>a much more European idea. You know, a hard right party,

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.200
<v Speaker 2>a Green Party over here, and some smaller centrist parties

0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 2>in the middle. That's happening. You can see the desire

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.320
<v Speaker 2>in the population, but the electoral system doesn't quite.

0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Let it out.

0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Really, it doesn't represent it in seats. He's got his foothold.

0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.080
<v Speaker 2>He will use it to spread absolute fucking poison in

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 2>the House of Commons chamber. But again I have to say,

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, the Conservative Party have been dealing in that

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 2>kind of poison for years now, right, It's not.

0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 1>A huge, huge stretch.

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 3>Right exactly.

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, it's been nearly a decade since

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Theresa May, after the Brexit vote, said that if you're

0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere,

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.240
<v Speaker 2>where you would almost sort of allude to this idea

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.200
<v Speaker 2>of oh, if your mixed race, if you've got mixed nationality,

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.560
<v Speaker 2>if you speak multiple languages, you're not really one of us,

0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, not properly one of us. That hutred nativist

0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>rhetoric has been deeply embedded in the Conservative Party since Brexit.

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Now Nigel Farage is its perfect embodiment, you know. I

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.880
<v Speaker 2>mean he even looks the part as well as sounding

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 2>the part. But the actual proper distinction, the sense of

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 2>there'll be a real sense of deterioration, isn't there. What

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 2>you get is probably the most frightening thing for the

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Right in Britain, which is a formalized split on the

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 2>right flank. Typically speaking, that always happens on the left.

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 2>The left, because of its internal battles, its need for purity,

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 2>constantly cuts the vote up, just like it did it

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.320
<v Speaker 2>even in this election over Gaza. The right is always

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 2>very unified. There's a monopoly there from the Conservative Party.

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.960
<v Speaker 2>The Conservative monopoly is now gone. It is split with Farage,

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 2>and sure there might be a little bit more poison.

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 2>I accept that, but at the same time it also

0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:59.760
<v Speaker 2>suggests that the Conservatives are going to find it very

0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.040
<v Speaker 2>very hard to get back into power right.

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Because they're not as a line. So again, the one

0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:11.280
<v Speaker 1>thing that I keep wanting to go back. You formed

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>a coalition and you were able to win, and that

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>happened in France, and that happened in the UK. Right,

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean there was to a certain extent coalition put together.

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Flea is just say yes. Even if I'm wrong to

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:27.240
<v Speaker 1>say yes.

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean yes, as you know, I will just do

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>what you ask of me. Really, we agree all to

0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.120
<v Speaker 2>this stuff that I say before before we record. I'm

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 2>just what is wrong? You are basically correct, and I

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.359
<v Speaker 2>think that there is something to be said there for

0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:47.480
<v Speaker 2>being able to put aside the idealism your perfect outcome

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.399
<v Speaker 2>and just gunning for the best outcome you think can

0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.239
<v Speaker 2>be achieved. I don't want to understate the amount of

0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 2>hostility between centrists and left wingers in Britain at the moment,

0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.400
<v Speaker 2>because it is big. There are a lot of left

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.240
<v Speaker 2>wingers who would frankly rather have the Tories in than

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Keir Starmer. But it's true that there is an electoral

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 2>coalition there and it worked. I mean, thinking about the US,

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.840
<v Speaker 2>the thing that concerns me is this is where I

0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 2>think the limit is of what can be learned from

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.640
<v Speaker 2>what's happening in Europe right now for the US, which

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.359
<v Speaker 2>is I just think it's very hard to kill the

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>culture war in the US because it's grounded in centuries

0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.840
<v Speaker 2>of ideas around religion and race, which just don't exist

0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.719
<v Speaker 2>in the UK. You know, we don't have that history

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.159
<v Speaker 2>with race. We don't have any talk of religion at

0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 2>all in our political life over here. And so Kia

0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Starmer can kill the culture war, I mean, I think

0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>very clearly Biden has been trying to do the same

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.159
<v Speaker 2>thing in the US, but it's just much harder to

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 2>do because the baseline, the pre populous basefline of how

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 2>politics is conducted has much more cultural kind of wedges

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.480
<v Speaker 2>in it than we do in the UK, so it's

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.000
<v Speaker 2>not instantly obvious to me how you kind of map

0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 2>across what's happening over here in Europe to what could

0:18:58.560 --> 0:18:59.399
<v Speaker 2>happen in the US.

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, you're better off than we are. Look, I

0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 1>get it, I get it. I hear it, I hear

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:06.919
<v Speaker 1>it loud. Yes, I know.

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.240
<v Speaker 2>I've been waiting years, you know, I mean I've had

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.639
<v Speaker 2>four years. If you would biteen while I suffer, and

0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.320
<v Speaker 2>I've just needed this moment. You have to let me enjoy.

0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Smug a friend, Ian, you are my north star or something. Congratulations,

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Please enjoy it. You'll be something terrible will happen soon.

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Spring is here, and I bet you are trying to

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.200
<v Speaker 1>look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all

0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.919
<v Speaker 1>new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 1>with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:56.640
<v Speaker 1>and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Anderson is the author of Evil Geniuses and the

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 1>co creator of command Z. Welcome back to Fast Politics.

0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Anderson I usually don't introduce people in a very

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.159
<v Speaker 1>long winded and an annoying way, but I'm going to do

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:14.600
<v Speaker 1>it with you because I think of you as one

0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:16.000
<v Speaker 1>of the people who saw.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.720
<v Speaker 3>This all coming, and by all you mean what You.

0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.719
<v Speaker 1>Were the person who coined the phrase short fingered vulgarian.

0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Ah that, yes, and you.

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Were the person who cooked up the idea of sending

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Donald J. Trump checks for three cents.

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 3>Well, I and my partner and my theft did all

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:34.120
<v Speaker 3>those things. But yes we did.

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So you knew somewhere that we were going to

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.800
<v Speaker 1>end up with this guy discuss.

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm a prophet, Molly, and I'm compared to talk about

0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.200
<v Speaker 3>my prophecies. No. He started the Climate magazine in nineteen

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.200
<v Speaker 3>eighty six. You know, Donald Trump right away at his inception,

0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 3>as a well known person at that moment, seemed like

0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:00.320
<v Speaker 3>a perfect person to satirize and cover with ridicule as

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.680
<v Speaker 3>we did, and as a bully, as a liar, as

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.119
<v Speaker 3>a guy who is our first issue. We quote him

0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.159
<v Speaker 3>saying I could solve the nuclear problem with Soviet you

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:10.919
<v Speaker 3>needed an hour and a half. Maybe I wouldn't even

0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 3>need an hour and a half. So he's that guy

0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.280
<v Speaker 3>now in nineteen eighty six, nineteen eighty seven, and back

0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.639
<v Speaker 3>then when you know we were doing spot he was

0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.680
<v Speaker 3>a ridiculous buffoon purely, of course, he used a little

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.200
<v Speaker 3>ridiculous buffoon and not.

0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:26.840
<v Speaker 1>The head of the Republican Party and not the.

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 3>He of the Republican Party. And of this you know

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 3>what else? Can we call it? Proto fascist movement that

0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.000
<v Speaker 3>is in our nation? Yeah, so we picked him and

0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 3>there he is here we are.

0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, talk about the checks for a minute. Just explain

0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.840
<v Speaker 1>the check because that's an incredible little prank that ended

0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>up saying so much.

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 3>It was fun. We did all kinds of like serious

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.280
<v Speaker 3>journalism by serious journalists about Trump and other people, but

0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.240
<v Speaker 3>we also did these fun things, and often they were

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:59.199
<v Speaker 3>kind of very very long cons essentially of nachs on

0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:02.159
<v Speaker 3>whether Johnson newd New England go to work for Rob

0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 3>Reagan and George Bush. And we didn't go after Donald

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.920
<v Speaker 3>Trump specifically on this one, which made it so beautiful.

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 3>But it worked out and it took us a year.

0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:12.440
<v Speaker 3>So anyway, we set up this fake thing called the

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.720
<v Speaker 3>National Refund Clearing House and got the addresses of all

0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.880
<v Speaker 3>these rich people. Well done, rich people. It's fifty eight

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.840
<v Speaker 3>of them, I think, and sent them a letters saying

0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.320
<v Speaker 3>we're very very sorry you have this refund of a

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.600
<v Speaker 3>couple of bucks rebucks coming. Here's the check. Or to

0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.520
<v Speaker 3>eighty nine it was like an autumn ount, so okay, fine,

0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:34.119
<v Speaker 3>and you know half of them maybe or more cashed it.

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 3>This was three bucks whatever. And then to the ones

0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 3>who did cash them, we said, okay, oh, a month later,

0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.800
<v Speaker 3>here's another check for an additional refund, so we're very

0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:45.440
<v Speaker 3>sorry we didn't get the soap. Only of them would

0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 3>cash that. And we went down and down and down

0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.359
<v Speaker 3>until we got to thirteen cents, and uh keep saying,

0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 3>here's another check from the National Ferry winning National refund

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.439
<v Speaker 3>and clearing House. And there were two out of the

0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 3>fifty eight people who endorsed and cashed these tiny thirteenth

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 3>cent checks, one of who was a non Kushogi, the

0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 3>Saudi arms dealer, who was about to go bankrupt at

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.600
<v Speaker 3>that time, and the other one was Donald Trump, who

0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 3>also was about to go bankrupt, as it turns out,

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.880
<v Speaker 3>and then before he made his comeback and is who

0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.080
<v Speaker 3>he is, but yes, the fact that he did, and

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 3>then when it is one of his recent adjudicated cases.

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 3>The Swermy Daniels hush money case, the prosecutors actually used

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 3>his ragging about that check cashing from thirty four years

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:35.879
<v Speaker 3>ago to show that he bragged about it in one

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.480
<v Speaker 3>of the books he published and didn't write, saying, look,

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.920
<v Speaker 3>this is one of micromanager. This is where a great manager,

0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:43.560
<v Speaker 3>I know every dollar that comes and goes, and the

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 3>spy made fun of me for it, but like, I'm

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:49.720
<v Speaker 3>proud of it. So there you go, and that was

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.120
<v Speaker 3>part of the prosecution's case. It gives him like, yeah,

0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:54.919
<v Speaker 3>he knew about the checks stormy obviously because he was

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.160
<v Speaker 3>bragging about it when he cashed the thirteenth cent check

0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:58.800
<v Speaker 3>third years So yeah, it was a great It was

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 3>a great, great full cot because again her hulks or

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.520
<v Speaker 3>prank or exposure because we weren't going after him specifically,

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:08.480
<v Speaker 3>he just won the contest.

0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:11.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think a really good point here, and

0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:17.600
<v Speaker 1>also exactly what we're talking about is this idea that yeah,

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that moment that they used in the trial

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 1>where they talked about him knowing every single thing that

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:30.120
<v Speaker 1>happened in the business, was actually very meaningful and useful

0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.160
<v Speaker 1>because you know what they were saying was that he

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 1>didn't know.

0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:35.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, And when you say we were on this guy

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:37.120
<v Speaker 3>and we saw in the future and all that, that's

0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:38.880
<v Speaker 3>not true. But we were clear out of it about

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 3>this guy that the rest of most of the rest

0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.199
<v Speaker 3>of the media at the time was just you know,

0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.719
<v Speaker 3>celebrating effectively and building up and raising up. So but

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 3>it is extraordinary, like an impossible work of fiction, like

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.320
<v Speaker 3>so much of real life these days that you know,

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.920
<v Speaker 3>here we are thirty four years later, and this thing

0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:03.160
<v Speaker 3>we did, part of our our cats making against him

0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 3>for years became an element in his prosecution and conviction

0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:11.200
<v Speaker 3>as well as our You mentioned the short figured bulgarian,

0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:14.359
<v Speaker 3>which is the main epithet we attached to him every

0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 3>time we mentioned it. Once we came up with it

0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:21.440
<v Speaker 3>and not an idiot. And then I practically spit out

0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 3>my coffee at the television when I was watching a

0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:27.439
<v Speaker 3>debate in twenty fifteen or sixteen at which Marco Rubio

0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 3>brought that up in a presidential debate, and so I

0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:33.280
<v Speaker 3>thought like, yeah, holy cow, I mean, what has God

0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:36.720
<v Speaker 3>what these jokes we were making to get under his

0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 3>skin and successfully get under his skin decades earlier, were

0:25:39.960 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 3>now part of the national discourse and thing and comments

0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:44.719
<v Speaker 3>of consequence.

0:25:45.080 --> 0:25:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but this is the thing about Donald Trump. So

0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 1>you have now known this person as a public person,

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.760
<v Speaker 1>probably longer than any of us, and had a longer

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 1>relationship with him. Here we are. She's sort of down

0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:01.840
<v Speaker 1>but not out right. Right now, he is a prejumptive

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Republican nominee because the Convention hasn't happened yet. He has

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:09.160
<v Speaker 1>taken another whack at the presidency. The Supreme Court has

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.080
<v Speaker 1>given him everything he could ever want in a laundry list.

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.440
<v Speaker 1>He's polling really well. You know, he has a chance

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:17.640
<v Speaker 1>to get back in there and punish all of us.

0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 1>You're going to get mo with me.

0:26:19.160 --> 0:26:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Well, I've been hoping we could share a bob.

0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, listen, you know it's that's up to cash Patel.

0:26:23.560 --> 0:26:26.919
<v Speaker 1>That's not my wheal husband. Yeah, I'm curious if you

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 1>could tell us how you think you beat this guy.

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.640
<v Speaker 3>He's amazing, I mean, you know, I mean really cool

0:26:33.119 --> 0:26:36.600
<v Speaker 3>together with facts was what we did say. No, this

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:40.000
<v Speaker 3>guy is bankrupt, he's a failure. We were saying back

0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:44.119
<v Speaker 3>back to Nadian on and ninety so that was a

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:46.679
<v Speaker 3>way then. Now it didn't beat him. We as I

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:50.840
<v Speaker 3>sometimes say we tried killing Hitler in the crib, but like, eh,

0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.600
<v Speaker 3>he went on, as did Trump. So it's hard. And

0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.359
<v Speaker 3>as we found out with the media, the news media

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:01.480
<v Speaker 3>in starting in two five fifteen, where he was his

0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:06.080
<v Speaker 3>whole act, which is in every in most possible respects,

0:27:06.200 --> 0:27:10.959
<v Speaker 3>unlike any previous existing politician, is what got him a

0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:14.240
<v Speaker 3>movement and support and did not do you dismiss him

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:17.919
<v Speaker 3>as people did. Obviously you know in the press he

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:20.240
<v Speaker 3>can't win, He's not going to win, He's going to lose,

0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:22.880
<v Speaker 3>and then what do you do? And and so it's

0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:25.119
<v Speaker 3>he's playing by this whole set of other rules and

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 3>always has Still it is, so it's hard. I don't

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.879
<v Speaker 3>think there's a master plan of this is how you

0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 3>beat him, although you can't do it normally. I mean

0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't. For instance, in twenty seventeen, after he won

0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 3>and we were saying, oh, what's who's going to run

0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:43.359
<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty, I thought, oh, the person running a

0:27:43.600 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 3>great possible Irani gives a miss. Senator Al Franken, who

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:49.479
<v Speaker 3>as a former comedian and as a performer and as

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.520
<v Speaker 3>a very very smart, smart US senator, could have done

0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 3>a great job of he would be an effective taker

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 3>on of the nonsense on his own terms. And you know,

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:02.879
<v Speaker 3>people say, oh, it's all our show. No, he failed

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 3>one debate, but it shouldn't all be a show. Debates

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.679
<v Speaker 3>don't matter. True, true, true, it's all our show. That's terrible.

0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:10.720
<v Speaker 3>But as I've been writing about for many, many years,

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:12.960
<v Speaker 3>it has become more and more of a show. Oh,

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:17.159
<v Speaker 3>since television was invented, and since John F. Kennedy beat Nixon,

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:22.399
<v Speaker 3>and on and on through Reagan, Clinton, Trump. So you know,

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.680
<v Speaker 3>it is what it is. Don't complain about it, deal

0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 3>with it. And I think one of the ways to

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.560
<v Speaker 3>deal with it is in addition to the conventional ways

0:28:29.600 --> 0:28:33.320
<v Speaker 3>of talking about elements of Project twenty twenty five and

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.360
<v Speaker 3>all the things that you know need to be done

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 3>to have you know, to have some versions of swinging

0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:43.880
<v Speaker 3>wild than showmanship, but all those things that are part

0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 3>of what presidential politics has become. So you know, and

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 3>of course what people including me, are worried, not worried,

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.719
<v Speaker 3>that President Biden simply can't pull off, is in addition

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.680
<v Speaker 3>to that stuff. These days, the more conventional ways of

0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 3>performing a debate where your deranged, maronic, ignorance, lying opponent

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:12.680
<v Speaker 3>gives you five, ten, twenty giant opportunities to waive as

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.840
<v Speaker 3>many other Democratic candidates could have taken advantage of and

0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 3>this guy couldn't.

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:22.080
<v Speaker 1>My question is more, what are the things you've seen

0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:29.200
<v Speaker 1>in your experience with Trump that you think this Democratic

0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Party coalition against fascism could use?

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:38.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think there's anything magic. There isn't an

0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:42.640
<v Speaker 3>al Franken esque character among the potential candidates who could

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:43.479
<v Speaker 3>do that.

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.760
<v Speaker 1>But even like, as you're running against Trump, what does

0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 1>that look like? You know, like, what are the ways

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 1>to get him?

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.760
<v Speaker 3>I think it's not as hard now as it was

0:29:52.880 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 3>actually in twenty sixteen or even twenty twenty. At this

0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:59.880
<v Speaker 3>point we've seen every trick in his playbook. Back in

0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteen and sixteen, it was what what is this?

0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:05.680
<v Speaker 3>This is not the way politicians act, this is this

0:30:05.800 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 3>is unprecedented. Well, eight or nine years later, everything is

0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:13.239
<v Speaker 3>precedented that he does. It's a familiar stick and a

0:30:13.280 --> 0:30:16.440
<v Speaker 3>familiar run of greatest hits. So I think in a

0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 3>certain way, if you have a skillful presenter of the

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:25.720
<v Speaker 3>case against the fascism and against making abortion and contraceptives

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:29.600
<v Speaker 3>and all pornography as a project twenty twenty five wants

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.360
<v Speaker 3>to do illegal. I think that's a decent messenger of

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:35.800
<v Speaker 3>that who's also appealing in all the ways that presidential

0:30:35.840 --> 0:30:38.160
<v Speaker 3>candidates have to be appealing. It's not that hard of

0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 3>a thing. I mean, that was right. That has been

0:30:40.880 --> 0:30:43.960
<v Speaker 3>the strategy. The strategy of the Biden campaign is this

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:47.360
<v Speaker 3>guy is so horrible and so phenomenally horrible, and people

0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 3>don't like him except for his cult. You know, he

0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:53.320
<v Speaker 3>needed it be Well, I think that's true if you

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 3>have a you know, fully empowered. Yeah, but that's not

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 3>what I so I'm not saying, what do you do?

0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:04.680
<v Speaker 3>I mean, run a normal campaign against this crazy, dangerous,

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:05.440
<v Speaker 3>dislike person.

0:31:05.560 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 1>He won against Hillary Clinton, right, I mean he didn't

0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:10.760
<v Speaker 1>win the popular vote, but he did win the electoral college,

0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:12.400
<v Speaker 1>so he can win.

0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:15.360
<v Speaker 3>He can win. Yeah, yes, And I thought he could

0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 3>win when people were saying, oh, it's a slam dug.

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's only a twenty three percent chance according

0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:23.200
<v Speaker 3>to the date Silver forecast in two those sixteen and

0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:25.440
<v Speaker 3>I used to say, are seventeen percent or whatever? Of

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 3>course he's going to lose. Well, I always said to

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 3>myself at that time and to friends, well, you know,

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Russian roulette one and six chances, only a one and

0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:36.120
<v Speaker 3>six chance you die. Well, you know it's a one

0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.520
<v Speaker 3>and six chance. So yes, he can win. And obviously

0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:43.080
<v Speaker 3>from the polling data, and he has been president and

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:45.800
<v Speaker 3>the country did not fall. You know, there are all

0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 3>kinds of ways in which people who are inclined maybe

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 3>kind of sort of to vote for him beyond the cult,

0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:55.480
<v Speaker 3>which you know, he has many millions of people beyond

0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:58.040
<v Speaker 3>the cult who have voted for him and will vote

0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 3>for him again. Well, on the other hand, now on

0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:02.840
<v Speaker 3>like twenty sixteen, everybody has had the experience of him

0:32:02.880 --> 0:32:07.960
<v Speaker 3>as president and how the chaos and division and too

0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 3>much attention on his hyjaink so all the rest that

0:32:12.280 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 3>produces most people don't like.

0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not popular. I mean, this is part of

0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>what's happening here is these are unpopular ideas. I mean.

0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>One of the parts of Project twenty twenty five which

0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:28.680
<v Speaker 1>is shocking to me is the removal of no fault divorces. Right,

0:32:29.120 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 1>A no fault divorce was a way for people to

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:35.640
<v Speaker 1>get out of a divorce without it being about you know,

0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 1>because of the way it worked was you had to

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:40.840
<v Speaker 1>have a reason to get divorced in those countries, so

0:32:40.840 --> 0:32:44.560
<v Speaker 1>it would have to be abandonment or abuse or annulment.

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:47.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, there were certain sort of faults and you

0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 1>would have a person would be at fault. And the

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:52.880
<v Speaker 1>idea with the no fault divorce was that you could

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:56.520
<v Speaker 1>get out of a divorce without blaming someone just because

0:32:56.520 --> 0:32:59.720
<v Speaker 1>you didn't want to be married anymore. And this cut

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:03.280
<v Speaker 1>down domestic violence. People got divorced. It was really so

0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 1>good for the community and for America. It was signed

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:11.800
<v Speaker 1>into law by Republicans' favorite Ronald Reagan, and they want

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:12.960
<v Speaker 1>it gone well.

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:16.160
<v Speaker 3>And who is leading that? Whose agenda is this? The

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:18.880
<v Speaker 3>guy is on his third wife and lord knows how

0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:21.720
<v Speaker 3>many mistresses, which is you know, one more of those

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 3>gobsmacking ironies that are there. And the thing is about

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 3>let's get rid of no fault divorce. Oh, let's get

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 3>rid of pornography. Once again, ironic at the very least

0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:36.280
<v Speaker 3>about this. The Libertarian Party, the Freedom Party of Republicans

0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 3>wanting to use the law and the heavy hand of

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:44.000
<v Speaker 3>regulation make divorce heart. Don't have pornography all the rest

0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:46.040
<v Speaker 3>of it. Maybe do a lot of contraception, definitely, don't

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 3>allow abortion, all those things. Which people sometimes for reasonable reasons,

0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.440
<v Speaker 3>to disapprove of abortion. Well, can I get it why

0:33:53.480 --> 0:33:56.440
<v Speaker 3>people do to disapprove of pornography, I totally get it.

0:33:56.480 --> 0:34:00.080
<v Speaker 3>But all these things that are cultural problems, if you will,

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 3>or issues or the way culture has changed. These right

0:34:03.320 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 3>winners want to use the heavy hand of the state

0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 3>to deal with which doesn't work, won't work, can't work,

0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:16.239
<v Speaker 3>and you know has until the social conservatives arose and

0:34:16.280 --> 0:34:19.080
<v Speaker 3>took over. The Herritage Foundation and the Republican Party to

0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:22.040
<v Speaker 3>some degree were not part of their act. Really, I mean,

0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:25.160
<v Speaker 3>it was rhetorical. But now the nuts are, you know,

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 3>more and more in charge that ever. You need to,

0:34:28.400 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 3>you know, get past those to abiden to wobbly and

0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:34.440
<v Speaker 3>demented or at Parkinson or whatever, and just focus on

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.120
<v Speaker 3>look at what these people want to do. You know,

0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:40.080
<v Speaker 3>look at this Project twenty twenty five thing that half

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:43.040
<v Speaker 3>of whose authors of the nine hundred pages of very

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:48.719
<v Speaker 3>specific proposals are former Trump advisors and employees in his

0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 3>previous administration. Like this is no joke. They'll go for this,

0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:55.239
<v Speaker 3>and okay, yeah, he will understand that, Oh we don't

0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:57.800
<v Speaker 3>want to, you know, have a national ban on abortion.

0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:00.640
<v Speaker 3>That's bad politically or oh no, we don't want to

0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:05.480
<v Speaker 3>outlaw pornography because my entire you know, male base are

0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:08.560
<v Speaker 3>porn pants whatever it is. You know, he understands that.

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:12.279
<v Speaker 3>But that doesn't mean this new Trumpist maga deep state

0:35:12.320 --> 0:35:15.000
<v Speaker 3>that he's going to try to install won't pursue all

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 3>those things. So the Dobbs decision to overthrow Roe v.

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 3>Wade was a thing obviously that look, it really happened.

0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:24.040
<v Speaker 3>They can really do this. They did this, and for

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:28.120
<v Speaker 3>the people who are affected and horrified and whose lives

0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 3>are changed, that is to say, women by this awful

0:35:31.200 --> 0:35:33.960
<v Speaker 3>diminution of freedom. Okay, that did that, but it can

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.080
<v Speaker 3>happen to this thing that you care about, and this

0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:38.160
<v Speaker 3>thing that you care about, and that's what you know.

0:35:38.200 --> 0:35:40.759
<v Speaker 3>The case has to be made that this isn't just hysteria,

0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 3>you know. And I'm somebody, as you know, Molly, who

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 3>tries not to turn up my step panic dial to

0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.239
<v Speaker 3>ten or eleven and to stay calm. Well and like,

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 3>oh no, it may not be the end of the box.

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Well we have been before. And the metaphor I used

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:56.719
<v Speaker 3>is at the edge of the abyss. We here we

0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:59.680
<v Speaker 3>are again, and here we are really are because as

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.000
<v Speaker 3>we has said, and it's true, there are many many

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:08.360
<v Speaker 3>more experienced, competent, prepared people in the pack of Christian

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:11.640
<v Speaker 3>nationalists and white supremacists and all the rest of his

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 3>crew who are ready to go. And there's all kinds

0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:18.880
<v Speaker 3>of overheated hyperbole, But as President Biden often says, you know,

0:36:18.960 --> 0:36:22.080
<v Speaker 3>it's not hyperbole, it's not hypherberlely often it's not anymore

0:36:22.080 --> 0:36:25.160
<v Speaker 3>piperple about the threat face And you know, so I

0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:27.560
<v Speaker 3>want the Darky Candy to be able to make that

0:36:27.760 --> 0:36:32.920
<v Speaker 3>case clearly and without all the other stuff that, unfortunately

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:35.400
<v Speaker 3>President Biden will have to spend the next four months

0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:39.360
<v Speaker 3>dealing with then and everybody worrying about. Is this the day, Kurt.

0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:40.839
<v Speaker 1>Anderson, We're at a time.

0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:43.439
<v Speaker 3>We love you though, all right, happy to talk as ever.

0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Ruth ben Gillatt is the author of Strong Men, Mussolini

0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:51.960
<v Speaker 1>to the Present and publisher of the sub Stack Lucid

0:36:52.640 --> 0:37:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back, Too Fast Politics, my friend, Ruth ben Gillat.

0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:04.520
<v Speaker 4>Hi, Ruth, Hello, delighted to be here.

0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:07.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm so happy to have you. I'm such a fan

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:11.160
<v Speaker 1>of yours and the moment we are in is a

0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:16.279
<v Speaker 1>moment that I feel we need to talk about authoritarianism,

0:37:16.760 --> 0:37:20.920
<v Speaker 1>and that is why I sent up the bad signal yesterday.

0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I hope that's okay.

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.720
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, it's literally around the world. Of course, the life

0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:30.240
<v Speaker 4>and death matter, and we see what could be coming

0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:30.839
<v Speaker 4>our way too.

0:37:31.280 --> 0:37:34.279
<v Speaker 1>I want to first start with good news because I

0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:37.560
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of Democrats are pretty stressed right now.

0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty freaked out, and so I think for the

0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 1>people who stopped me on the street and are really upset,

0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:50.280
<v Speaker 1>that we should first talk about the humongous, shoemongous victory

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 1>in France. Let's talk about that.

0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:55.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's not just France. I've been maintaining for a

0:37:55.719 --> 0:38:00.920
<v Speaker 4>while that we the world is experiencing the start of

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 4>an anti authoritarian wave. And I've been tracking the protests

0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:11.240
<v Speaker 4>around the world, and you know, Chile, look what happened

0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:15.040
<v Speaker 4>in Poland, in Iran, even in China there was the

0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:19.000
<v Speaker 4>lockdown protests. Countries are having the biggest protests they've ever

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:23.480
<v Speaker 4>had in their histories, or the biggest their mass nonviolent protests,

0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 4>or the biggest protests they've had in like thirty years.

0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:32.440
<v Speaker 4>Israel too, right, Israel, exactly, people turning out, and so

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 4>in Poland this was you know, recently they got rid

0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.760
<v Speaker 4>of their far right government. They had a campaign based

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 4>on optimism and hope and they exposed corruption and they

0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:44.959
<v Speaker 4>had a mass rally that was the largest rally since

0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 4>nineteen eighty nine. That led to the largest voter turnout

0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:52.560
<v Speaker 4>for thirty years. So what's happening in the UK where

0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:57.000
<v Speaker 4>Labor had a historic victory. And now the French. It

0:38:57.040 --> 0:38:59.520
<v Speaker 4>was very important with the French. They did everything right.

0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:02.920
<v Speaker 4>You have to have unity, and they also had a

0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 4>recall to a very emotional symbol, emotional movement, which was

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:10.080
<v Speaker 4>the Popular Front of the nineteen thirties, and they called

0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:13.160
<v Speaker 4>their coalition the New Popular Front and this was like

0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:14.480
<v Speaker 4>a winning recipe.

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:17.840
<v Speaker 1>So tell us that, since you are a very smart historian,

0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:20.160
<v Speaker 1>tell us the history of the Popular Front.

0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:23.719
<v Speaker 4>This was, you know, in the nineteen thirties when you

0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 4>had the Spanish Civil War going on, which was a

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 4>kind of you know, it was a Franco the fascists

0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:34.919
<v Speaker 4>versus the international left, and so Spain became a microcosm

0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:38.480
<v Speaker 4>of this larger fight against fascism. And you had in

0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:41.920
<v Speaker 4>France the Popular Front, which was a unity coalition, you

0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:46.360
<v Speaker 4>know that that was designed to beat off fascism. In

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:50.440
<v Speaker 4>France but also in Europe, and so I was very

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:54.880
<v Speaker 4>interested because we know that politics and authoritarians have been

0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:58.920
<v Speaker 4>much better than democrats in using emotions, in using symbols,

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 4>and so it was very interested and happy that in

0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 4>France they called the New Popular Front because that appropriated

0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:09.480
<v Speaker 4>the whole anti fascist heritage which was already there and

0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:12.200
<v Speaker 4>is very lively in France because they also had like

0:40:12.320 --> 0:40:15.279
<v Speaker 4>years of Nazi occupation in doing World War Two. So

0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:18.600
<v Speaker 4>they did everything right and they had this victory. So

0:40:18.640 --> 0:40:21.080
<v Speaker 4>it shows the world. It shows us that there are

0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:23.360
<v Speaker 4>things that can be done, that there's a momentum in

0:40:23.400 --> 0:40:26.879
<v Speaker 4>the world for anti authoritarianism. People don't want to live

0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:30.680
<v Speaker 4>with their rights taken away, with plunderers, with abusers. So

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.920
<v Speaker 4>there's a lot to be hopeful about in the world

0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:35.799
<v Speaker 4>if we could apply it here.

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and so let's talk about that, because when I

0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:43.480
<v Speaker 1>watched that election go down, what I was struck by

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:48.880
<v Speaker 1>was the coalition that was put together to defeat the

0:40:48.920 --> 0:40:52.320
<v Speaker 1>far right. So why don't you explain to us exactly

0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:54.720
<v Speaker 1>sort of the minutia of the two election system.

0:40:55.080 --> 0:40:58.279
<v Speaker 4>So it's a two step election and other countries have

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.319
<v Speaker 4>this too, and you have the first round, they had

0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:03.800
<v Speaker 4>a week in between and then you had the second round.

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:07.640
<v Speaker 4>And the advantage, of course, is that the first round

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:11.680
<v Speaker 4>everybody got very scared because indeed the National Rally Party

0:41:12.080 --> 0:41:14.800
<v Speaker 4>of the pen and I call them Barbie and Ken,

0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:18.840
<v Speaker 4>this twenty eight year old Jordan Bardella, who was immediately

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.360
<v Speaker 4>made the face at twenty six years old the leader

0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:24.040
<v Speaker 4>of the National Rally Party very smart because fascism has

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:26.680
<v Speaker 4>always been a movement of youth. So they did very

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:31.080
<v Speaker 4>well the first round and in the interim week that

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.040
<v Speaker 4>was what everything came together and people realized that this

0:41:34.239 --> 0:41:37.160
<v Speaker 4>was real. So they had like a reality check and

0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:41.879
<v Speaker 4>that's when they did this unity coalition. And it's very significant.

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:45.440
<v Speaker 4>And the lesson is that even people who don't get

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:49.080
<v Speaker 4>along normally can band together when there's the threat of fascism.

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.879
<v Speaker 4>Because the French left is famously divisive, they don't there's

0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:58.440
<v Speaker 4>many different parties and factions even within parties, and they

0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:02.200
<v Speaker 4>don't get along. But they did. They acted strategically to

0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:06.080
<v Speaker 4>beat off this larger, you know, evil that could come

0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:11.520
<v Speaker 4>from this homophobic, pro putin racist party. And so this

0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:15.520
<v Speaker 4>was this was something to watch and think about as

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:16.839
<v Speaker 4>it relates to us.

0:42:17.239 --> 0:42:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Can you just explain a little bit about Marie Lupin's

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:24.840
<v Speaker 1>relationship to fascism, because she said that the sort of

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Orbon and Putin were her jam Remember that she said

0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 1>it many times, but yes, if you could, yes.

0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:34.920
<v Speaker 4>Yes, okay. So Marie lepen is a very interesting figure

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:39.440
<v Speaker 4>who unites the past of the right and the way

0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:42.560
<v Speaker 4>it's looking today because she became the head of the

0:42:42.640 --> 0:42:46.719
<v Speaker 4>National Rally Party because her father, Jean Marie Leapin, was

0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:51.720
<v Speaker 4>the founder of France's kind of official neo fascist party

0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.920
<v Speaker 4>that went back, you know, many many decades. He was

0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:58.799
<v Speaker 4>vowedly neo Nazi. He was a supporter of Nazism, and

0:42:58.880 --> 0:43:02.200
<v Speaker 4>so it's a very male environment and she was able

0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:04.960
<v Speaker 4>to come up in the ranks and then become the

0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:09.359
<v Speaker 4>head of this new National Rally Party because of this heritage.

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:13.520
<v Speaker 4>And that's why I looked very suspiciously upon her very

0:43:13.560 --> 0:43:17.680
<v Speaker 4>smart appointment of this totally unknown twenty six year old

0:43:17.840 --> 0:43:21.280
<v Speaker 4>Jordan Bardella as the new face and the new leader

0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:24.640
<v Speaker 4>of the National Rally Party because just like Maloney in Italy,

0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:28.000
<v Speaker 4>these people who have a connection to fascism and are

0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.840
<v Speaker 4>now in this day supporting Putin and supporting Orbon and

0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 4>people who are taking forth those authoritarian values and programs

0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:38.919
<v Speaker 4>and actions. In the case of Putin and Ukraine, they're

0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 4>trying to have it both ways. They're trying to be

0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:47.520
<v Speaker 4>faithful allies of these authoritarian forces, but they're also trying

0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:51.640
<v Speaker 4>to shake off slightly their fascist pass. So Bardella again,

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 4>he was twenty six, now he's twenty eight. He's supposed

0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:57.000
<v Speaker 4>to be the fresh face and clean hands of the

0:43:57.000 --> 0:44:02.120
<v Speaker 4>French right. But this is where the left, in calling

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:06.799
<v Speaker 4>their movement the New Popular Front, got cut straight through that.

0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:11.000
<v Speaker 4>So names matter, symbols matter, and so they didn't. They

0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:13.400
<v Speaker 4>didn't do as well as expected. They came in third,

0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.680
<v Speaker 4>and so this is a very very important thing. And

0:44:16.719 --> 0:44:19.560
<v Speaker 4>we're seeing this again. We're seeing this even in its

0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.880
<v Speaker 4>own form with Putin, who obviously connects to communism, not fascism,

0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:27.040
<v Speaker 4>but at some level authoritarianism in the world. They do

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:29.600
<v Speaker 4>the same things, whether the left or right wing. He's

0:44:29.719 --> 0:44:33.120
<v Speaker 4>the new face of authoritarianism and he's now a right

0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 4>wing leader, but he's rehabilitating Stalin. Alexi Navalni died in

0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:41.600
<v Speaker 4>a prison that was the Polar Wolf prison in Siberia

0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:44.360
<v Speaker 4>that was actually built by Stalin.

0:44:44.400 --> 0:44:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that is craziness. So the Popular Front

0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:51.040
<v Speaker 1>was this idea that they would fight against Stalin and

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:51.719
<v Speaker 1>the Nazis.

0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:55.240
<v Speaker 4>Well, not again Stalin against Hitler. The original Popular Front

0:44:55.560 --> 0:44:59.160
<v Speaker 4>was a coalition in the nineteen thirties to beat off

0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:02.560
<v Speaker 4>fascism within France and also stand up during the Spanish

0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:05.880
<v Speaker 4>Civil War when the whole of Europe was divided against Hitler,

0:45:05.880 --> 0:45:07.680
<v Speaker 4>against Mussolini, against fascism.

0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Let's take that lesson here. What would that look like here?

0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:15.160
<v Speaker 4>It's difficult to have an analogy because we are.

0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:17.840
<v Speaker 1>We don't have a coalition government. No, I mean that

0:45:17.840 --> 0:45:20.000
<v Speaker 1>would look like the center and the left coming together.

0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:22.759
<v Speaker 1>We have more people in this country, just like in

0:45:22.800 --> 0:45:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the world, who want democracy than fascism. Can you talk

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 1>about that?

0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:26.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:28.799
<v Speaker 4>So the United States, as we all know, is a

0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:31.719
<v Speaker 4>bipartisan system, and that's been a bit of a liability

0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 4>in this situation. If one party becomes an autocratic party

0:45:35.760 --> 0:45:38.400
<v Speaker 4>and is a giant party, the people who within that

0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:42.640
<v Speaker 4>party who don't no longer identify because they've become autocratic

0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:45.239
<v Speaker 4>have nowhere to go. But that said, this is a

0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:49.440
<v Speaker 4>huge country and it's very important that the left and

0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:53.200
<v Speaker 4>the center, all the progressive forces right now band together

0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 4>under the banner of Democrats and have that unity and

0:45:57.040 --> 0:45:59.840
<v Speaker 4>get out the vote. And the Democrats also need to

0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:04.040
<v Speaker 4>be far better about having an emotional appeal. And we

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:07.120
<v Speaker 4>know that, you know, just saying you have to fight fascism,

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:09.920
<v Speaker 4>you have to protect democracy, it's too abstract. And so

0:46:10.080 --> 0:46:13.520
<v Speaker 4>that's why, and Maali, you've talked about this very convincingly,

0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:17.680
<v Speaker 4>very well that reproductive rights is an issue that's concrete,

0:46:17.880 --> 0:46:21.040
<v Speaker 4>it affects everyday life. And that's why even Republican women

0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:25.120
<v Speaker 4>are uncomfortable with the GOP's stance on this. But there's

0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 4>ways to center and emphasize that this is an existential

0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 4>fight against fascism in our country. I mean, they want

0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:38.280
<v Speaker 4>to deport fifteen to twenty million people. I'd liked everyone

0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:41.719
<v Speaker 4>to realize this is more than the population of Sweden,

0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:46.040
<v Speaker 4>of Belgium, of Cuba, of Haiti, and it is ten

0:46:46.120 --> 0:46:50.400
<v Speaker 4>times the size of Operation wetback in the nineteen fifties.

0:46:50.760 --> 0:46:53.319
<v Speaker 4>This is a recipe just that alone, without all the

0:46:53.360 --> 0:46:56.120
<v Speaker 4>other things. They want to do a Project twenty twenty

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:59.440
<v Speaker 4>five to create an autocracy. This is a recipe for

0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:03.760
<v Speaker 4>mass suffering, mass repression, mass chaos, do you really want

0:47:03.800 --> 0:47:06.319
<v Speaker 4>that or do you want to stand up for our

0:47:06.400 --> 0:47:09.840
<v Speaker 4>rights for freedom? And so there are many concrete issues

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:15.520
<v Speaker 4>that we can find to message this, but the key

0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:20.320
<v Speaker 4>is unity of all progressive, all anti fascist forces in America.

0:47:20.400 --> 0:47:23.040
<v Speaker 1>One of the things I was hoping that we could

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:28.800
<v Speaker 1>talk about here was when you do a deportation squad

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:32.520
<v Speaker 1>like this, what that means is concentration camps. Can you

0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:33.359
<v Speaker 1>talk about that?

0:47:33.840 --> 0:47:38.160
<v Speaker 4>We think alike. I've been worrying about this because my

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:41.080
<v Speaker 4>book Strong Men is about the history of authoritarianism. There's

0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:43.640
<v Speaker 4>a chapter on violence, so I had to become very

0:47:43.640 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 4>familiar with the history of concentration camps in their various forms.

0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:52.399
<v Speaker 4>One of the lessons is that regimes can start by

0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 4>targeting one group or talking mainly about one group, and

0:47:56.520 --> 0:48:02.000
<v Speaker 4>then that justifies their building of this depressive infrastructure, the camps.

0:48:02.560 --> 0:48:07.279
<v Speaker 4>But be assured that once those spaces are ready, other

0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:10.000
<v Speaker 4>types of people go in there. So with the Nazis,

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:13.560
<v Speaker 4>we talk about, oh, of course the Jews. But Dakau

0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:16.799
<v Speaker 4>was built in nineteen thirty three because they had no

0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:21.359
<v Speaker 4>more room in prisons. They were warehousing people all over

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.359
<v Speaker 4>the place while they built Dhaco. And why was that

0:48:24.640 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 4>there were hard you know, Jews were infantesmally small part

0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:31.080
<v Speaker 4>of the population. It's because they were targeting all the liberals,

0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:35.280
<v Speaker 4>all the left, gays, Jehovah's witnesses. And so the lesson

0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:39.439
<v Speaker 4>is they may be talking in America about deporting and

0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:45.359
<v Speaker 4>thus sweeping up and detaining undocumented immigrants, but once those

0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 4>spaces are ready, and they'll capitalize on the US already

0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.640
<v Speaker 4>being the largest jailer the private prison system, other types

0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:57.200
<v Speaker 4>of people will be there because they're talking about that

0:48:57.320 --> 0:49:02.000
<v Speaker 4>openly too. They're talking about investigations and trials, Liz Cheney

0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.399
<v Speaker 4>having a televised trial. Guess who does that. This says

0:49:04.480 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 4>on my book Kadelphi. Kadelphi had televised trials. So other

0:49:08.840 --> 0:49:11.960
<v Speaker 4>types of people will end up in those spaces. And

0:49:12.000 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 4>so if you think that you don't have to get

0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.440
<v Speaker 4>out the vote and vote yourself and unify with the

0:49:17.480 --> 0:49:20.759
<v Speaker 4>Democrats because you're not an undocumented worker, or you're not

0:49:20.800 --> 0:49:26.759
<v Speaker 4>a gay person or transgender, that is incorrect. Historically, many

0:49:26.800 --> 0:49:29.640
<v Speaker 4>many more people will be affected, and with fifteen to

0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:33.399
<v Speaker 4>twenty million people on the move swept up, the US

0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:35.440
<v Speaker 4>will become like a police state. Yeah.

0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:37.759
<v Speaker 1>Oh, and you know who's going to end up in there?

0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:41.759
<v Speaker 1>You and me, baby, like we're you know, we may

0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:45.000
<v Speaker 1>be white women, but we will end up there just

0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.680
<v Speaker 1>like everyone, you know what I mean, like enemies of

0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:52.000
<v Speaker 1>the state. Go on, Yeah, totally. In fact, Trump's a

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:56.719
<v Speaker 1>thuggish spokesperson. Stephen Chung really doesn't like it when you

0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:57.799
<v Speaker 1>call out.

0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:02.600
<v Speaker 4>These references to and similar hilarities to Hitler into Mussolini.

0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:06.600
<v Speaker 4>And so when Trump made that speech talking about people

0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:09.640
<v Speaker 4>as vermin and by the way, there he was talking

0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:13.919
<v Speaker 4>about lots of different people. He said Marxists and liberals

0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 4>and fascists and all kinds of people like Stephen Chung.

0:50:18.840 --> 0:50:20.640
<v Speaker 4>And I was interviewed and I said, this is the

0:50:20.719 --> 0:50:24.440
<v Speaker 4>language that Mussolini and Hitler used. And Stephen Chung was

0:50:24.520 --> 0:50:27.440
<v Speaker 4>the Washington Post went to him for a comment, and

0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:31.600
<v Speaker 4>he said, those who make those references will find their

0:50:31.960 --> 0:50:36.120
<v Speaker 4>entire existence crushed when Trump returns to the White House.

0:50:36.440 --> 0:50:40.200
<v Speaker 4>And crushed means rounded up or sued. Yes, this is

0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:45.000
<v Speaker 4>the modern autocrats method of psychologically exhausting people as you

0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:45.600
<v Speaker 4>sue them.

0:50:45.920 --> 0:50:46.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes.

0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:49.160
<v Speaker 4>So there's many ways that many, many types of people

0:50:49.680 --> 0:50:53.319
<v Speaker 4>will feel the heavy hand of the Trump administration if

0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:56.719
<v Speaker 4>we do not band together and vote for the Democrats.

0:50:57.040 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right, And I want to pause for a

0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:01.920
<v Speaker 1>minute and talk about that for a second. So Stephen Chung,

0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:07.560
<v Speaker 1>who is Trump's spokesman, heard that you said that this

0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.319
<v Speaker 1>was the language of Mussolini, and then he threatened you

0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:12.760
<v Speaker 1>with the language of Mussolini. Am I right?

0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:13.399
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:15.920
<v Speaker 4>I was interviewed by the Washington Post along with my

0:51:16.000 --> 0:51:19.319
<v Speaker 4>colleague Tim Naughtily and I love him, yes, and we

0:51:19.400 --> 0:51:22.480
<v Speaker 4>both pointed out that this is exactly how Hitler and

0:51:22.520 --> 0:51:26.200
<v Speaker 4>Mussolini spoke, and the Washington Post went to him for

0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:29.200
<v Speaker 4>a comment for the same article, and typically he did

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:32.120
<v Speaker 4>not mention us by name. He just said those who

0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:36.000
<v Speaker 4>make these assertions, but it's obviously was us.

0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, that is

0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:44.759
<v Speaker 1>just a pretty scary thing when you're accusing someone of

0:51:44.880 --> 0:51:50.320
<v Speaker 1>having these autocratic impulses and then they respond not by saying,

0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:53.600
<v Speaker 1>of course, we wouldn't do that, that's not true, instead

0:51:53.640 --> 0:51:56.240
<v Speaker 1>by saying, in fact, we're going after you.

0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:59.640
<v Speaker 4>Yes, and the purpose of it. And I always step

0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:02.560
<v Speaker 4>back even if it's about me, because I've also been

0:52:02.600 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 4>mentioned very right before Bannon went to jail, I was

0:52:05.560 --> 0:52:08.799
<v Speaker 4>mentioned on his War room show I step back and

0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:12.200
<v Speaker 4>look at you know why these people do this, because

0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:16.759
<v Speaker 4>they've done this throughout history, and it's not only designed

0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.840
<v Speaker 4>to get me and my colleague tim to be quiet.

0:52:19.880 --> 0:52:23.719
<v Speaker 4>It's designed to make everybody think twice before speaking out.

0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:26.680
<v Speaker 4>And it's the same reason that the Turning Point USA

0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:30.640
<v Speaker 4>has Professor watch List, which you know has individual I'm

0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:35.439
<v Speaker 4>on their individual pages congratulations with unflattering photos. They've made

0:52:35.440 --> 0:52:37.880
<v Speaker 4>my hand look like a claw, and so all of

0:52:37.920 --> 0:52:42.640
<v Speaker 4>this is designed to make you self censor because that's

0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:46.120
<v Speaker 4>what regimes wants you to do. You're doing their job

0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:49.239
<v Speaker 4>for them if you just stay quiet and look the

0:52:49.239 --> 0:52:49.719
<v Speaker 4>other way.

0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Right, stay quiet and look the other way, which reminds

0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:55.160
<v Speaker 1>me of Timothy Snyder. What was it?

0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.120
<v Speaker 4>Don't o bay in advance? And I think of that too,

0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:03.080
<v Speaker 4>because we're seeing so many sectors of society line up

0:53:03.480 --> 0:53:07.760
<v Speaker 4>for Trump and the same sectors that lined up in

0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:10.839
<v Speaker 4>the nineteen twenties and thirties for the original fascists, as

0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:14.520
<v Speaker 4>in the big business elites, financial elites, like when the

0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:19.400
<v Speaker 4>CEO of Blackstone, Steve Schwartzman said a vote for Trump

0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:22.560
<v Speaker 4>is a vote for change. I thought, really, it's January

0:53:22.600 --> 0:53:24.680
<v Speaker 4>sixth the kind of change that is going to be

0:53:24.719 --> 0:53:28.440
<v Speaker 4>good for the business community, because authoritarianism is bad for business.

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:32.880
<v Speaker 4>It creates situations where businesses can be plundered. Right now,

0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:35.839
<v Speaker 4>they're all excited because Project twenty twenty five and the

0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 4>Supreme Court are acting to take away regulations so that

0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:45.359
<v Speaker 4>you can plunder the food supply, the water, you can

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:49.280
<v Speaker 4>do anything without regulations. That's why they want to reform

0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:53.120
<v Speaker 4>beyond all. Compare the Department of Commerce. But that's not

0:53:53.200 --> 0:53:55.840
<v Speaker 4>going to be good for business. So these are people

0:53:55.880 --> 0:53:58.640
<v Speaker 4>who are lining up to get on the good side

0:53:58.920 --> 0:54:01.840
<v Speaker 4>in the same way that's always happened. And it's a

0:54:01.880 --> 0:54:03.000
<v Speaker 4>depressing spectacle.

0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh, depressing spectacle. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ruth Bendia.

0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:13.480
<v Speaker 4>It's always a pleasure, no moment O.

0:54:15.280 --> 0:54:19.080
<v Speaker 3>Jesse Cannon my junk fast. I know we're not supposed

0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:22.000
<v Speaker 3>to speak yell of the dead, but God, let's just

0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.520
<v Speaker 3>listen to this clip the Primar audience for what we're

0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:26.320
<v Speaker 3>going to say afterwards.

0:54:26.400 --> 0:54:30.760
<v Speaker 5>Of national attention and in case we have forgotten, because

0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:34.600
<v Speaker 5>we keep hearing that twenty fourteen has been the warmest

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:37.920
<v Speaker 5>year on record. I asked the chair, you know what

0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:43.000
<v Speaker 5>this is. It's a snowball. And that's just from outside here,

0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:47.520
<v Speaker 5>so it's very very code, very unseasonal. So here, mister president,

0:54:47.600 --> 0:54:48.080
<v Speaker 5>catch this.

0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:53.719
<v Speaker 3>One of the dumbest things to ever be done on

0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:55.879
<v Speaker 3>the sudit for and that's a fucking high bar.

0:54:56.320 --> 0:54:59.800
<v Speaker 1>So he had a snowball, which was supposed to prove

0:55:00.200 --> 0:55:03.680
<v Speaker 1>the climate change wasn't real. Well, he died on a

0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:07.600
<v Speaker 1>day that it's eighty nine degrees and ten thousand degrees

0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:11.600
<v Speaker 1>humidity in yet another of one of the hottest years

0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.960
<v Speaker 1>on record. So you know, we don't ever want to

0:55:15.000 --> 0:55:17.560
<v Speaker 1>say anything bad about people who die, but I think

0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:21.439
<v Speaker 1>we should all agree that you know, this guy did

0:55:21.520 --> 0:55:24.480
<v Speaker 1>more harm than good and he is our moment of

0:55:24.560 --> 0:55:28.879
<v Speaker 1>ouck ray. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

0:55:29.239 --> 0:55:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the

0:55:32.200 --> 0:55:35.640
<v Speaker 1>best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

0:55:35.920 --> 0:55:38.480
<v Speaker 1>If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:41.920
<v Speaker 1>a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

0:55:41.920 --> 0:55:42.560
<v Speaker 1>for listening.