WEBVTT - Part Two: The Online & Real Life Harassment of Marginalized Elected Officials 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome back to another episode of Internet Hate Machine. So 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.440 this is the final installment of our two part episode 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.320 with Francesca Fiorentini, where we look at the ways that 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:14.600 harassment online keeps women, particularly women of color and black women, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.680 from being able to run for and hold public office 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.360 safely and how it impacts our democracy more broadly. So 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.840 in our last episode, we talked about some national leaders 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.080 like Kamala Harris, and in this episode were going in 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.080 to look at some specific women in local public offices 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.680 and the harassment and abuse that they faced just for 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.840 trying to do their jobs. So, you know, we're talking 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:37.760 about Harris. But I want to make it clear that 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.560 when it comes to women who are running for public office, 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.560 it is not always like flashy candidates with well funded 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.680 campaigns who are like running for a presidential administration. We're 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.599 often talking about women running for like local offices like 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.440 school boards in their community or county commissioners. So I 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.640 want to talk about a few examples of what I mean. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.080 The first is Tammy Sawyer. Will actually hopefully hear from 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.000 Tammy Sawyer in her own words later in the seas 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.000 and but I want to talk about her time as 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.920 an elected official in Memphis, Inde. So Jammy Sawyer got 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.040 her start in activism. She felt called the public service 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:11.679 watching the acquittal of George Zimmerman during the murder of 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.320 Trayvon Martin and the grand jury decision not to try 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.800 Darren Wilson to the death of Mike Brown. She became 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.479 a pretty like visible figure in the movement for Black Lives. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.000 In she organized a visual in honor of Tamir Rice 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.920 at the Health Sciences Park in Memphis. If you've ever 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.399 been there in the last few years, you know that 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.960 it had a statue of Confederate general and klu Klux 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.560 Klan Grand Wizard Nathan Bedford Forrest, the namesake for the 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.080 movie Forrest Gump. Fun fact. In twenty seventeen, Tammy Sawyer 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.880 organized the hashtag take him Down nine oh one movement, 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.440 which led to the statute being removed. In eighteen of August, 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.520 she was elected to Shelby County Commissioner for District seven 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.200 in Memphis. So she was just like visible figure in 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.160 the movement for Black Lives. But that thing that elevated 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.800 her to the public stage also made her a huge 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.640 get for white supremacists. Things came to a head in 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.080 June when she was doing a press conference at this 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.640 park during the actual removal of the monument. So there's 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.800 a little bit of like weird backstory through this like 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:16.120 very weird compromise. The group Sons of Confederate Veterans were 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:20.360 responsible for hiring and overseeing the construction project to remove 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.920 this Confederate statue. It sounds like they never wanted the 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.040 statue to be removed in the first place, and the 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.079 team that they put together and hired to remove it 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.000 it seemed to reflect that right this team that they 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.000 had was obviously not thrilled that these statues were coming down, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.520 to say the least. Yeah, that's an interesting contractor Like yeah, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:44.080 like Sons of the Confederate Veterans like a Confederate statue enthusiasts, 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.720 You know, I don't fully get it. No, is there 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:51.919 no one else who can take down the statues. It's 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.040 just the same people who put them up are also 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.040 the people who take them down. That's the that's the compromise. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.720 It has to be fair. So the crew hired to 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.840 take down these monuments, they ended up putting Confederate flags 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.480 all over the job site. Uh, it sounds like they 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.840 intentionally covered this like Black Lives Matter mural with bricks 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.079 while working just like petty ship, right, just like petty 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.200 stunt ship. That's that's how they were doing this. For 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.880 whatever reason, I don't fully get like why or how 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.080 this happened, but petty stunt shit. So a member of 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.320 that crew hired to remove the monument, as a man 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.840 named George k Rath Johnson, who is the founding member 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.080 of a group called Confederate nine oh one, who has 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.519 a history of like showing up in places where Confederate 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:35.800 monuments are being taken down. They were the group if 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.600 you remember, like the group that was protesting a Confederate 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.520 monument being taken down an Ole, miss That was them. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.120 I found this very interesting. A piece in the Clarion 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.160 Ledger says that the group is mostly white, shocker, but 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.480 they do have a black member who led one of 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:57.640 their marches in Memphis, so like yea for inclusion. Something 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.840 else to know about this guy is that, in addition 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.360 to you being a founding member of this Confederate group, 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.520 he loves Facebook Live. And here's what he had to 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.840 say about his own presence in Pittsburgh, North Carolina on 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.640 Facebook Live today. I was like, I want to go 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.760 to Chapel Hill, I want to go to Pittsburgh. I 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.960 want to go over to where they've already removed the monuments, 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:22.480 you know. And honestly, yeah, I was looking to start 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.000 the pot, but hey, they've been stirring the pot for 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.080 a long damn time, and I'm about ready to make 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:34.600 my own Batchel stew you know, all right, So that's him. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.000 You want to eat people. That's literally what you're saying. 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:47.120 What that was? That was my inderstitting as well. Yeah, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.640 it's a very weird growth analogy, and I don't like 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.920 it at all. And so this is this is the 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.640 person who is hired to be part of the construction 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.040 crew to take down this monument, but to do it 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.599 in the stuntiest way possible in Memphis, where Tammy Sawyer 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.560 has like led this campaign to remove his monuments, And 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.480 while Tammy is trying to hold a press conference at 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.120 this park, Johnson stands behind her, marching back and forth 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.800 holding a Confederate flagged. He uses racist insults toward her. 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.039 He sings the Confederate anthem Dixie as he's trying to 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.320 speak God. Here's a little clip of what it sounded 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.360 like outside the Health and Sciences Park in Memphis that day. 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.920 So when they put all of this on social media, 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:35.200 they continued to threat a life. When they continue to 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:38.480 do all this, say they're going to be if you 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.919 have it on proper, and they waved their racist confederates 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:47.920 to move behind. Remember, okay, okay, wrong here to give 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.919 you all the statement and say that this is a 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.120 powerful moment. I was going to connect. I was going 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.120 to connect it to Memphis Massenger. You know who else 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.960 a communist they caught Martini became a communist. They called 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.800 your James a communist when you're a armist. They called 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.880 the Black Panthers communist. James Baldwin was called a connu. 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.480 James Walding Johnson was called a commun Muhammad Ali was 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:17.560 called a time era Comglas. Make sure you get a 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.080 picture of the man who just ranted my life, the 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.200 man who just said he was gonna lay hands on it, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.039 and then make sure you go down there when they're body. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.840 I remember that I do this by myself. No one, 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:39.440 No one comes with me. Oh no, no security power. 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.719 That's what these people are. Their power. So he said 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.680 you're gonna be by hans Am right high behind the blind, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.760 he was a man. I'm I'm I'm more a man 0:06:51.839 --> 0:07:01.320 and you are, Yes, Tammy, Yes, Tammy. Remember that Audrey 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.160 Lord once said they will kill you and say you like, 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.880 I'm not gonna let him kill me, but if he does, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.680 you know who to go. Fine, right, y'all know where 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:17.560 to start. So that's really where things kind of come 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.560 to a head. And honestly, it's hard to watch that 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.200 because I really feel for Tammy in that video. You know, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.960 she's just trying to do her job. She obviously has 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.600 to respond in this moment with like grace because it's 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.640 happening in public, and you don't want to give these 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.360 people any fodder to be like, oh, she deserved it. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.400 You know, you can't you can't really respond the way 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.360 that you might want to because of all the negative 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.040 stereotypes that women deal with that we talked about earlier. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.840 And Yeah, I just I really feel for her, Like 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.480 I feel like it's palpable to see that, and she's 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.720 dealing with this alone and and like Tammy. Tammy was 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.640 actually on my podcast The Situation Room a while ago 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.760 before this, and she's the most lovely person, Like she's 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.840 so wonderful and and just like warm and thoughtful and 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.680 fearce and you can and clearly it comes across. But 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.480 it is just funny that, like, yeah, the Confederacy has 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.680 been reduced to a sad man on a random Tuesday 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.440 with nothing to do with a tiny little flag and 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.080 his little you know, his air pods, listening to whatever 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.160 the funk he's listening to, waving his flag behind a 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.800 woman in a friend doing a press conference, like Robert E. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.720 Lee would be so proud of you, sir, oh God, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:40.360 like keep the keep the flame alive, you idiot, Like 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.000 you want to lose again the fun You fucking lost 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.319 the Civil War, bitch, Like I'm sorry, I'm just like 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.880 you can't get over the fact that you goddamn lost 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.680 and you want a stupid monument to your loser ass, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.600 you know, civil War hero. Shut the funk up. Fun fact, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.640 the show The Golden Girls lasted longer than the Confederacy, 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.240 So maybe we should have monuments to Yes, we should. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.760 Sophia deserves her own monument. I, as an Italian woman, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:12.320 believe Sophia is our our our queen. Um No, yeah, 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.040 that is It's just so sad it is. And so 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.160 after this interaction, Sawyer filed charges against him and said that, 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.400 you know, he threatened her. During the investigation, it is 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:26.040 revealed that that same man, after she filed those charges, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.360 went on Facebook Live and read her address out loud. 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.079 Here's a little bit about how she explains what went 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.960 down after the incident we just heard because he went 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.640 on Facebook Live with a friend and offered out my 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.000 address and actually emailed out my address to people telling 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.200 them to send me cotton and other gifts and uh, 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:52.280 show me who was in charge in this country. Um, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.079 and you know threatening that after January, after court that 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.400 mythis and me we're going to face a reckoning because 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.880 of those actions that came to light this weekend. The 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.800 judge was forced to allow the case to continue. But 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:12.439 the judges also from Dyer County, UM, and he did 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.640 not want the case to continue. And he lectured Mr 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.280 Johnson and told him you have a great lawyer. Um, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.959 you know, why did you open your mouth? You know, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.800 don't ruin a good thing, he told him, Son, don't 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.599 ruin a good thing. And so I already see what 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.400 this is going. Wow, that is incredible that that was 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.480 what was discussed and so so what just nothing left 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.079 for you here? I was in court, and when I 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.840 attempted to speak, the judge told me that I don't 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.240 address him. I could talk to the d A. This 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.280 is the same d A that never called me, interviewed me, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.959 and actually today when the case was continue to be 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.800 set for trial in March, uh said, I'll now have 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:55.880 to look at this case. I have to be honest. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.240 I hadn't looked at it because I just knew it 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.439 was going to be dismissed. So this is a six 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.400 month old situation that went viral, that was covered on 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.240 your show and many others. Um, and the d as 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.280 telling me he's never looked at the bio and now 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.720 he's going to have to look at it. Um, there's 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.319 still emotion to dismiss from the defense that will be 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.560 heard on March thirty. Yeah, you can sort of get 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.920 a sense that, like, it doesn't sound like anybody whose 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.319 job it is to give a ship gives a ship. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.160 She's an elected official. I believe she's still currently the 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.000 commissioner Shelby County Commissioner. No, she was at that point, 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.319 but no longer. She's not like today. But yeah, so 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.320 she at that point, she was still lots of official 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.679 and this is how they were treating uh pretty clear, 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.839 like like problem, you know, it's okay. Also, keep in 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.319 mind she was a county commissioner, right, It's not like 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.360 she had a well funded security detail or like endless 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.040 funds to dedicate to the kinds of like security that 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.719 someone would need in a situation like this, you know, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.959 after this man made a show of having her address 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.640 and a clear intent to cause her harm. But so 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.360 Tammy had to fundraise for her own security. I should say, 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.080 full disclosure, I do work for an organization that did 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.520 help her fundraise for her security details, So like I 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:12.920 should add that, But it only makes us like you 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.080 more bridges good. I don't want someone to like find 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:18.960 that and be like, wait a minute, conflict of interest. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.160 I mean, and I loved Tammy and I admire her 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.160 work so much, and like, you know, it is what 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:26.960 it is, like, I like, I can't believe you would 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.320 cover this story. I mean, I thought you had integrity. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.679 It's like, you know, we we saw what happened, and 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.320 it just it felt like nobody had her back, right, 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:41.000 Like she shouldn't have to. It shouldn't be this this 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.760 barrier and this cost that just she alone has to shoulder. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.199 Isn't my county commissioners this like lucrative, cushy thing, Like 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.280 she shouldn't have to just like shell out to have 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.719 to have security because some Confederate maniac has a B 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.760 in its bonnet, like I thought it was acceptable. Yes, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.080 And it's indicative of the fact that most people who 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:07.040 run for elected office and who get elected are themselves wealthy, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.280 and they're usually white dudes, um, and they have generational wealth, 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.959 they're or they're independently wealthy, whatever the case may be, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.160 and they can afford a security detail. But again, as 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.319 you've discussed and laid out, mostly when you are a 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.520 white man in office, you do not face those kinds 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.719 of threats the way women and women of color do. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.640 And it goes from I mean from tammy to AOC 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.800 on you know, on a federal level, I guess, or 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.520 in in Congress, you know, AOC saying we need security 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.000 and this is after January six, right, this is like 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.679 we need better security in and around the capital, and 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:46.320 it seems like that's only reserved for people who um 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.440 like the speaker or um who people who just privately 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:54.160 funded themselves and who's got the money for that? I 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.599 mean this is ostensibly these should be public servants, and 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.599 this is the mint that they're just the least we 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.120 could do for them, exactly. And if we're saying we 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.800 want to have a representative democracy where lots of different 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.840 folks from lots of different backgrounds can be public servants, 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.599 that should include people who I'm sorry can't afford a 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.920 private security details. Shouldn't this be for wealthy people? And 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.240 I feel like we are creating a situation where the 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.720 only people who can reasonably and safely hold public office 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:26.840 are people who have independent wealth to pay the astronomical 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.680 costs that are involved with security and online and offline security. 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.840 And so I think it's a real problem. And you know, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.440 I should say, like with the Tammy Sawyer situation, the 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.280 charges were eventually dropped against the person who was harassing her, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.240 you know, it sounds like Tammy felt like this case 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.160 was not handled seriously. She talks about how the judge 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:48.760 was like really paling it up with with the with 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.960 the defendant who she says was harassing her. And when 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.920 the judge was like, oh, you know, why did that 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.480 don't go on Facebook live? It wasn't because he wanted 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.800 Tammy to feel safe. It was because he didn't want 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.440 that guy to make his case that much harder to 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.720 have him be dismissed. And so when when the charges 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.080 were dismissed, Tammy wrote on Facebook, she said, but even 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.800 though the judge called his actions pathetic, he could not 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.040 identify a reasonable level of fear on her part. And 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.520 so I would actually argue that that that that like weird. 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.560 I know, it's so funked up, and like I think 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.400 that weird vibe. That tightrope of like I have to 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.840 show public grace kind of creates this impossible situation where 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:32.680 it's like, oh, well, you can handle it. Like you're 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.600 a black woman. It's just like part of showing up 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.360 and being a visible black woman. You're not afraid whatever, whatever. 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:41.160 And I think that's part of it. It's an impossible 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.400 situation that we face. You're used to it, no it 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.320 Imagine if she had freaked out in that video, Imagine 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.360 if she'd gotten angry, right, it would have been used 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.360 against her. She homie would have that other dude, the 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.760 dude would have used it to file charges against her, right, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.920 and you know that would have flown and he would 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.400 like he would have loved that. He was just waiting 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.360 for her to go off on him, and she didn't. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.200 She had to keep her cool, um, which is asked 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.160 of marginalized people all the time, because when you raise 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.920 your voice somehow that is uh, that's a threat. But yeah, 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:17.960 I think the other thing I was gonna say, and 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.320 this is a terrible comparison, but when it comes to 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.960 the justice system, it's just right there for the taking. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.640 Like you know that rape victims are their cases are 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:31.520 not taken seriously often if they don't quote unquote fight back, right, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.800 so and in this case, oh, she wasn't afraid. She 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.720 wasn't afraid because she didn't raise her voice, or she 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.600 didn't run. She wasn't physically running at the time. Um, 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.120 so therefore there was no fear. Like what are you 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.280 talking about? This is all about surviving And I just, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:49.920 I mean, you bring up such a good point about 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.760 the ways that he really just failed survivors and made 0:16:53.880 --> 0:17:00.080 and made survivors walk a really impossible tight rope in 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.240 public and it's just really fucked up. And yeah, it 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:08.240 makes me very sad. And today Timmy Sawyer is no 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.879 longer in public office. She is pursuing a PhD. And 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.240 don't get me wrong, Like she's still doing great things, 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.200 Like we will hear her. I am so sure we're 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.760 gonna hear her name again, Like just because she's no 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.399 longer in public office. I don't think this is like 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:22.719 the end of her band of her road by by 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.680 any margin. But I do think that we should acknowledge 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.920 this like added burden that she was forced to carry 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.800 because of her identity, you know, pursuving charges against somebody 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.800 who gave out her address and encourage people to harass her. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.280 And it's like we rather than taking the time to 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.320 really reflect on that or acknowledge that, we just move on. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.960 We were just like, oh yeah, like it just it 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.920 just feels like a footnote as opposed to something that 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.520 is a real marker of our democracy and and how 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.040 unwell our democratic system is right now. It's also it 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.520 reminds me of like she was working with Black Voters 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.240 Matter when I had her on, So she also done 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.240 incredible activism and and you're totally right, we'll continue to 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.440 do so. But it reminds me of like a women 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.760 in comedy, you know, where it's like a lot of 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.160 male bookers will be like, well, look, I would put 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.720 more women on my show. But like, they're not any 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.600 good women there. I don't know any female comics. It's 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.480 like number one, you're you're blind, and there are tons 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:24.600 of amazing women female comics. But also it's like, yeah, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.680 look at the industry at large, like look at the 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.360 culture of comedy. In a lot of ways, we don't 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.600 have hr. There's not it's like a not a safe 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.080 space specifically for women and for women of color. The 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.159 comedy space just isn't, you know, right, Like and and 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.080 it's the same thing with elected office. It's just like, well, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.720 you know, we we love to have like some kind 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.879 of quota or have like more women in office, but 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.480 just they don't run. And and and I think Republicans 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.440 are so guilty of that too, you know, because it's 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:57.119 like they have what like three female senators. It's just 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.480 it's like the lowest in in internationally. I think the 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:06.040 US Congress is one of the least representative bodies when 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.480 it comes to gender and so and like and he's 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.879 just like, well, we we'd we'd support them if they 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.080 would run for office. No, they run for office, they 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.320 just get torn down. I mean, I'm also thinking of 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.200 someone like Katie Hill in California, like they get torn 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.399 the funk apart. So yeah, yeah, and it's funny that 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.280 you mean not funny. But what Katie Hill went through 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.000 was a sex crime. Like she was the victim of 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.199 a sex crime by a an ex romantic partner who 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:41.280 was like like harassing her. And yet it's like we 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.840 just allow we just have a really fucked up culture 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:46.960 when it comes to women. I guess I'll just say that, 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:56.680 like all I can really say. So I want to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.399 talk about one more elected official and her experience in 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.680 public office, KEYA. Morris. She made history in twenty four 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.680 tenez Vermont's only black woman lawmaker. Her husband James, grew 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.119 up in Bennington, Vermont, and she went to college in Chicago, 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.359 but relocated back to Vermont to become a lawmaker. Her 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.639 career was very short lived because it was completely derailed 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.360 by online harassment and violent threats by self proclaimed white 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.320 nationalist Max Mish. Mish was kind of known as like 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:31.840 a violent his name is Max Mish, Max Mish, Dude, 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:38.920 white nationalists have the dumbest name. They really do match. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.920 I don't know, I'm just like that is the stupid anyway. Sorry, 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.720 it's like Mickey mouse name. That's amazing, so stupid. So 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.760 he's kind of like, no, like a known violent asshole. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.800 Side note, he looks exactly like whatever you're thinking that 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.200 he looks like. Based on the behavior I'm meant to describe, 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.639 I can tell you that you're right, whatever you're thinking. Yes, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.280 that's what he looks like. Very red faced, super red face. 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:12.040 You got it, you got it. So mission he planned 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.400 guilty to both first degree aggravated domestic assault and disorderly 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.639 conduct as a hate crime. So he has this like 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:20.640 he doesn't have a great like he's like a known 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.200 ship head, I guess. So he's been through a lot, 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:26.000 is what you're saying. Yeah, he's just a real victim, 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.760 you know. And so Kia when she supports a gun 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.560 safety bill, she starts to experience animosity from gun rights 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:38.280 advocates in Vermont because of her support of this legislation. Now, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.520 many legislators and the governor were targeted with like angry 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:46.200 mail and messages over this this law. But the kind 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.600 of content that she gets is very different because she's 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.240 a black woman and the only black woman in the legislature. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.359 So you know, she's not just getting like, oh, we 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:57.080 didn't like that you support this bill. She's getting frightening, 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:01.800 horrific racist messages, particularly from Max. Miss Max starts sending 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.240 her these like racist memes on Twitter and elsewhere about 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.000 her support for the bill. Kia says that she gets 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.680 an uptick in in the intensity of this kind of 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:13.960 harassment after a columnist for the white supremacist website The 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.840 Info Stormer posted about her reelection and starts tagging like 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.560 residents in it the Stormer. Sorry, I had to give 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.560 that a moment. I know, I feel like it's like 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:27.760 we stormed the truth. They're like putting a bunch of 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.320 words into like an AI generator or something, and it's 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.679 like Info Stormer, that's gonna be it, Like you mean 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.320