Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a series
Speaker 1: of dots that may or may not contain a secret code.
Speaker 1: Instead is supported by the generous contributions of people like you,
Speaker 1: our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't you never
Speaker 1: know stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, you made it. It's the end of October.
Speaker 1: Last episode, the last episode. If you don't know, this
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin. That's and that
Speaker 1: is Steve. Yes, that's clean. Actually we did at that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's good. I won't have to edit that at all,
Speaker 1: except for all of the five booths that we did
Speaker 1: before then. Yeah yeah, yeah no. So as you probably
Speaker 1: we know, but maybe not. This month of October, we've
Speaker 1: been doing Thinking Sideways is Most Wanted. So we came
Speaker 1: up with a list of fifteen, the fifteen most requested mysteries,
Speaker 1: and we did an episode on the five the top
Speaker 1: five voted, so they weren't necessarily the top five most
Speaker 1: requested that we've ever had. They were a list of
Speaker 1: the most requested and then there was a vote. So sorry,
Speaker 1: if we missed the most requot, we didn't. We got,
Speaker 1: but there are some that are like that are pretty
Speaker 1: frequently requested that I guess we'll attempt to tackle on
Speaker 1: the next next year. Yeah, if we're not, if we're
Speaker 1: not covering the mystery that you really really are dying
Speaker 1: to see us cover, we'll send us money. It's good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we do accept bribes. Yeah. So this is our uh no, not,
Speaker 1: there's no more like weird first runner up, the second runners. No,
Speaker 1: this is our winner, our winner, and uh the we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of the Beaumont children. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a big one. So you may or may not
Speaker 1: have listened to our group shows before. You might be
Speaker 1: able to tell this is going to be a long episode.
Speaker 1: So I didn't do it by myself. We all three
Speaker 1: broke it up. So we're going to do our standard
Speaker 1: show that we broke up style, and we're just going
Speaker 1: to each tackle different parts of it. I got the
Speaker 1: lambst part he did because he said he didn't care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. So I'm gonna start by giving a quick
Speaker 1: overview of the story. You might want to give him
Speaker 1: the warning because this is a story about childbuction. You
Speaker 1: that's you know, an uncomfortable subject for Yeah, not only
Speaker 1: is it child abduction, but a lot of the um
Speaker 1: suspects I guess are pretty bad. People are pretty and
Speaker 1: we are going to talk not in graphic detail, but
Speaker 1: in some big detail about what they did and why
Speaker 1: it pertains to this. So if you're squeamish, it's not you,
Speaker 1: it's not your bag. Just get this one. Although presumably
Speaker 1: you're not going to be so upset about this morning.
Speaker 1: If you're super excited about us covering with mystery, hopefully
Speaker 1: there won't be any cross over there. Yeah, I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't. I think this is pretty Pg. Thirteen. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be too concerned. It's not the worst. But just
Speaker 1: for all some of our listeners who need to know
Speaker 1: things like that, I think our listeners are already. They're
Speaker 1: not that kind of people anyway. They love the gore,
Speaker 1: not all of them. Okay, you guys ready. On January
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, which was Australia Day of that year,
Speaker 1: three children disappeared. Guess what their name was? Their last
Speaker 1: names for beaumont Um. They were Jane who was nine,
Speaker 1: Arna who was seven, and Grant who was four. They
Speaker 1: were on a beach that was called glenn Elg, which
Speaker 1: is the palindrome. You guys, I know that's really cool.
Speaker 1: You know. You pointed that out and I had not
Speaker 1: enough step before. It's palindrome. My Australian friend who helped
Speaker 1: me with some of these pronunciations. Uh, the first thing
Speaker 1: he said, I said, how would you say this word?
Speaker 1: He said, it's a palindrome and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but how do you say it? So apparently that's the thing. Um. Anyways,
Speaker 1: it was near It was near Adelaide, South Australia. South
Speaker 1: Australia is the state, I believe, right, I think so, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is also near Somerton, which you may or may
Speaker 1: not remember. This is why you are so excited about
Speaker 1: this particular case, just because it ties into your favorite one,
Speaker 1: my favorite one, yeah, which is um, that family actually
Speaker 1: lived in Somerton, um, which is where the whole Tam
Speaker 1: and Shrewd thing, Tom and Shrewd thing. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a little for me to triangle. Yeah, it happened in
Speaker 1: nine and it's actually, as it turns out, this area
Speaker 1: is pretty notorious for disappearance and murders. So um, maybe
Speaker 1: someday we'll cover some other ones, but now we've covered two.
Speaker 1: Well certainly, I mean some of the suspects in this
Speaker 1: case had been suspects and many many disappearances of children.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's kind of shocking how many people were
Speaker 1: out there doing this kind of stuff in South Australia.
Speaker 1: It's weird. It's you'd think it was like a place
Speaker 1: that people sent the worst people that they hadn't even
Speaker 1: going to make that all right. So their parents were
Speaker 1: Jim and Nancy Beaumont, and they often allowed the three children, Jane,
Speaker 1: Arena and Grant to ride the bus to the beach.
Speaker 1: It was like a five minute bus ride from their
Speaker 1: home to the beach um, and so they were often
Speaker 1: allowed to do that. And on this day they were excited.
Speaker 1: It was Australia Day, which I think is kind of
Speaker 1: like fourth of July here. I believe that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: I think it's Independence Day or something. Ignorance sorry everyone, anyways,
Speaker 1: it was a day of celebration, and so the three
Speaker 1: children said they wanted to go to the beach and
Speaker 1: their parents said sure, yeah, no problem, said by lunch. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They left home just after ten am. I believe it
Speaker 1: was ten. Ten was when the bus left, and they
Speaker 1: arrived at the beach predictably at about ten fifteen, which
Speaker 1: is confirmed by the bus driver and also um a
Speaker 1: few passengers of the bus. They said, yeah, the kids
Speaker 1: got off around eleven. The children paused to play in
Speaker 1: a sprinkler that was on the lawn of Collie Reserve,
Speaker 1: which is like a public park that's just adjacent to
Speaker 1: the beach. It's like big One. I looked at pictures.
Speaker 1: It looks really pretty. Around this time, a witness also
Speaker 1: noticed that there was a man playing with the children.
Speaker 1: He was wearing blue swim trunks, and a school friend
Speaker 1: of Jane's said that she saw the kids there too
Speaker 1: at about eleven, but that she didn't notice the man
Speaker 1: playing with them, and so maybe the man was just
Speaker 1: playing in the sprinklers but not with them. Yeah. Maybe.
Speaker 1: The witnesses description of the whole encounter with the man
Speaker 1: was that he was laying on the grass initially like tanning,
Speaker 1: and then got up and started playing with the kids.
Speaker 1: But forty five minutes later the children bought some pastries
Speaker 1: and a pie from one Cel's cake shop. Uh. They
Speaker 1: paid with a one pound note and pause for all
Speaker 1: of our Australian listeners. You might be saying, but in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six we had the dollar. Not so, not
Speaker 1: until May. I did my research on this one. It
Speaker 1: was still the pound until May of nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 1: So they paid with a one pound note and um.
Speaker 1: Later Nancy told authorities that she had given Jane eight
Speaker 1: shillings and sixpence in coins, which was to cover the
Speaker 1: bus fare, and then like small little snacks, get yourself
Speaker 1: something a munch, Yeah, just little little snacky things. So
Speaker 1: they so it's unclear where they got the one pound
Speaker 1: note from. Uh. The owner of the shop also mentioned
Speaker 1: that she did know the children and they they had
Speaker 1: purchased a meat pie, which they had never purchased before. Um,
Speaker 1: though they'd come into the shop many times. Yeah you're
Speaker 1: a kid, You got some cash and you go into
Speaker 1: a pastry shop. Yeah yeah, or cane croissants or you
Speaker 1: know whatever. Not it's not going to be a hearty
Speaker 1: meat pie. So she thought that was a little odd,
Speaker 1: but she you know, didn't question them or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But she did recall that as being odd when she
Speaker 1: was interviewed later around noon. A number of witnesses were
Speaker 1: all sitting on a bench when they were approached by
Speaker 1: a man who matches the description of the man in
Speaker 1: the blue Simms swim trunks, and he said he was
Speaker 1: missing some money and wondered if they had seen anybody
Speaker 1: touching his clothing. No, no, I know where. Yeah they
Speaker 1: might have stole it, right, Yeah, they don't. They didn't
Speaker 1: seem like that kind of a group of kids. Um.
Speaker 1: The group, who was comprised of a woman, an older couple,
Speaker 1: and the older couple's ten year old granddaughter, said sorry,
Speaker 1: we didn't see um anybody touching her clothes, and so
Speaker 1: the man walked back to his clothes, where three children
Speaker 1: were waiting for him. The witnesses said they were quote
Speaker 1: fairly certain that at least two of the children were
Speaker 1: Jane and Grant, and were absolutely positive that the third
Speaker 1: child was Arena. And the man then helped the three
Speaker 1: children dress, which they the witnesses said they thought was
Speaker 1: odd because at least two of them looked like they
Speaker 1: were definitely old enough to dress themselves at nine and
Speaker 1: seven at nine, that's a little weird, But he apparently helped.
Speaker 1: He took the time to help them all dress. It
Speaker 1: took them like fifteen minutes to get all dressed, but
Speaker 1: he apparently helped them all dress and then around um,
Speaker 1: twelve fifteen. As I said, it took it took that
Speaker 1: long too. I haven't seen anything that said, I guess
Speaker 1: so it was about noon when he approached them, So
Speaker 1: the conversation took maybe a minute or two, and then
Speaker 1: he walked back to the children and immediately helped them
Speaker 1: start dressing. And then the witnesses said they departed around
Speaker 1: twelve fifteen, so it did take them a while. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was he was not helping them get dressed, maybe
Speaker 1: he was trying to undress them and they were kept
Speaker 1: they kept dressing themselves, he kept undressing. No, I think
Speaker 1: it was pretty clear he Actually I was. I was
Speaker 1: wondering about it, as I had never thought about this.
Speaker 1: But if the children buy something and they eat something
Speaker 1: and somebody laces it on them, that would be why
Speaker 1: you would have to help a kid get dressed, if
Speaker 1: you they were a little drunk. That's good. I hadn't actually, no,
Speaker 1: I just yeah about that now. Yeah, it's just this
Speaker 1: whole scenario. It's just it's just a little hard to
Speaker 1: picture from today's modern stand put. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think guys. I mean, obviously you don't want to be
Speaker 1: having anything to do with the kids that you don't
Speaker 1: know he'll go anywhere near them. Absolutely, that's worth kind
Speaker 1: of a more paranoid society today than we used to be.
Speaker 1: Well in this case, actually was the imptis for a
Speaker 1: lot of that. It turns out there was the catalyst
Speaker 1: for a lot of families in Australia, particularly to stop
Speaker 1: allowing their children the kind of freedom that the Beaumont
Speaker 1: children were afforded. Yeah, between because this happened between the
Speaker 1: Purvs and the Dingoes, you know, I mean Australia wanting
Speaker 1: to get your kids. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing about this these kids is that
Speaker 1: you bring up a great point, Joe is everybody's probably
Speaker 1: freaking out going, oh my god, their parents let them
Speaker 1: go on their own. But it was he was a
Speaker 1: very different world. And I mean I grew up in
Speaker 1: in the States, you know, and and still when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, my parents still said where are you
Speaker 1: going when you're gonna be back? You know you're gonna
Speaker 1: be back by this time, and don't ride your bike
Speaker 1: in the street. Yeah, And then I just took off
Speaker 1: and did what I wanted. Yeah, and it's exact same
Speaker 1: thing these kids were doing. Yeah, I know, he would
Speaker 1: just take off and go all over the place. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting actually to think about the
Speaker 1: way that we're reacting to this story versus like the
Speaker 1: Madeline McCann case for instance, right where I know we
Speaker 1: were all like, what were those parents thinking? That's absurd,
Speaker 1: But it was genuinely the society that was exactly how
Speaker 1: everybody was treating their children. Yeah. I think it's that
Speaker 1: And there's an age difference thing here between this and
Speaker 1: the Meccans. Yeah, I'm not trying to like, you know,
Speaker 1: it was genuinely at a different time. And regarding the
Speaker 1: maccan parents, you know, they should have locked their room.
Speaker 1: But other than at you know, that wasn't it wasn't
Speaker 1: too egregious on their part because we actually got a
Speaker 1: little blowback and when that episode there and some people
Speaker 1: were like upset with us because I thought we were
Speaker 1: too hard on the parents. Yeah. So Nancy, as we've
Speaker 1: just discussed, it was, you know, a different time. Nancy Beaumont,
Speaker 1: the mom, she wasn't too worried when the kids didn't
Speaker 1: come home at on the noon bus. She kind of
Speaker 1: just figured that maybe they had decided to walk home
Speaker 1: from the beach with they which they had done before,
Speaker 1: and would have taken them, you know, extra time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or maybe they missed the bus. It wasn't exactly what
Speaker 1: we would call a frequent run bus. The next bus
Speaker 1: was due back at two, so she said, you know,
Speaker 1: she was she wasn't concerned. Really. She thought either they
Speaker 1: would be waiting for her at home they would walk home,
Speaker 1: or they'd be on the two o'clock bus. So she did.
Speaker 1: She went home, and she was a little myth that
Speaker 1: they weren't home waiting for her. I think she genuinely thought, oh,
Speaker 1: they just walked home. And then she walked from home
Speaker 1: to the bus stop for the two o'clock bus, expecting
Speaker 1: them to get off that bus. They didn't. They didn't
Speaker 1: get off any bus. She kind of thought, Okay, that's weird,
Speaker 1: but I guess they could be on the next bus.
Speaker 1: And the next bus came at three. Rationalizing is what
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, when denial, if your kids are your
Speaker 1: kids are kidnapped. Yeah, So when they were not on
Speaker 1: the three clock bus, she did start to freak out.
Speaker 1: And there's this possible sighting of the kids at one
Speaker 1: or two fifty five pm. I have a hard time too.
Speaker 1: So these two, these two sightings are like the police
Speaker 1: don't think they're credible, but we'll mention them anyway. So
Speaker 1: it's possible that at one PM the children were seen
Speaker 1: with the same man, but he had light brown hair,
Speaker 1: not blonde hair. Men in the blue trunks. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: the report was that they were leaving the beach um
Speaker 1: pretty much at that moment. It's also possible that the postman,
Speaker 1: who was familiar with them, saw them work walking along
Speaker 1: Jetty Road towards the beach. He said it would have
Speaker 1: either been at the getting or end of his round,
Speaker 1: which would have been at one or to fifty five pm.
Speaker 1: And in some statements he actually said that he saw
Speaker 1: them in the morning, but he recanted that. So you'll
Speaker 1: see out on the internet all three versions of that
Speaker 1: in all the different places. You'll see that the policeman,
Speaker 1: deaf or the postman definitely saw them on their way
Speaker 1: to the beach. Oh, he definitely saw them walking alone
Speaker 1: at one. Oh, he definitely saw them walking alone at
Speaker 1: Toft but he couldn't even remember. But he couldn't remember. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he couldn't remember any of that, so the police kind
Speaker 1: of discounted that as well, understandably so I agree. So
Speaker 1: I gu said Nancy by this point was pretty concerned, um,
Speaker 1: but she she did go home and continue to wait
Speaker 1: for them and tell Jim. Her husband got home, at
Speaker 1: which point both of them I think it was about
Speaker 1: five pm when he got home, and they decided to
Speaker 1: go to the beach to look for the kids, I think,
Speaker 1: just hoping that they had lost track of time or
Speaker 1: something like that. Obviously, they didn't find anything, so they
Speaker 1: officially reported the children missing at seven thirty pm that night,
Speaker 1: and then Jim continued to look throughout the night for
Speaker 1: the kids or any sign of the kids, and when
Speaker 1: there was no sign of them, they were officially declared
Speaker 1: missing the next morning. So the morning of January nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty six. The search that ensued was extensive and did
Speaker 1: eventually become the biggest man hunt or search search in
Speaker 1: the history of Australia. There are a few things to note,
Speaker 1: not very many, but a few. The first thing of
Speaker 1: note is that the children, but particularly Jane, were described
Speaker 1: as shy. Apparently, Arena had at one point told her
Speaker 1: mother that Jane had quote got a boyfriend down the
Speaker 1: beach unquote, and Nancy, of course, you know, thinking that
Speaker 1: seven year old arna Um referring to nine year old
Speaker 1: Jane had just meant a playmate and ignored the comment.
Speaker 1: But it did seem a little weird after the kids disappeared.
Speaker 1: In hindsight, yeah, a lot of things that are very simple.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before though, Yeah. Um, so investigators
Speaker 1: did theorize that the man in the blue swim trunks
Speaker 1: that had been seen playing with the kids, um had
Speaker 1: actually met them before, since they did go to the
Speaker 1: beach fairly frequently, that he had worked to gain their trust. Um,
Speaker 1: because it would it seemed out of character, I guess
Speaker 1: for the kids to play with a stranger within you know,
Speaker 1: such kind of ease. It lends me to think that
Speaker 1: there was a lot of planning put into places. This
Speaker 1: wasn't a crime of opportunity. Was snatch and grab, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's exactly the right term used it. Somebody had to
Speaker 1: spend three four separate occasions with these kids to build
Speaker 1: up that relationship. If indeed the man in the blue
Speaker 1: swim trunks was responsible, we don't know that. But also
Speaker 1: if he if this guy had been regularly hanging with
Speaker 1: the kids. Do you think they would have been a
Speaker 1: lot more witnesses have noticed on previous occasions, I guess.
Speaker 1: But also it's not exactly as though the police were saying, like,
Speaker 1: anybody who ever saw these kids interacting with anybody, tell
Speaker 1: us anything? You know, they were saying specifically on this
Speaker 1: day these kids disappeared, did you see them? You're in
Speaker 1: this area? It seems like, um, this speech is kind
Speaker 1: of a touristy area, so it's not as though a
Speaker 1: regulars and I don't know. It's also entirely possible that
Speaker 1: the man in the blue shorts was playing with his
Speaker 1: own three children. They were misidentified absolutely the children. UM,
Speaker 1: they had things like towels, small playthings. Jane had a
Speaker 1: copy of Little Women, which is not a small book
Speaker 1: with her, and none of these items were ever found,
Speaker 1: which lends itself to think that the kids weren't just
Speaker 1: washed out to see those things would have probably washed
Speaker 1: back up on the shore or um, so it wasn't
Speaker 1: just a riptide. Jim appeared on national television on January
Speaker 1: thirty one asking for any leads, and um hundreds of
Speaker 1: tips flooded the hotlines and Apparently every single one of
Speaker 1: them was followed up, and none of them really produced
Speaker 1: any kind of substantial leads. A few months after the
Speaker 1: kids disappeared, a woman reported that on the night of
Speaker 1: the disappearance, she had seen a man and three children,
Speaker 1: two girls and a boy, enter a house next to
Speaker 1: hers that she thought was empty, and I think it
Speaker 1: was like a vacation rental sort of situation, not like
Speaker 1: an abandoned house sort of situation. She reported that she
Speaker 1: saw the boy walking alone when he was chased and
Speaker 1: quote roughly caught by the man. Why did you wait
Speaker 1: too much? Yeah, I mean that's actually it just like
Speaker 1: the Springfield three and lady who said that she saw
Speaker 1: the girls in the vein months later. Months later, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's exactly. The police weren't able to to substantiate
Speaker 1: this story because of the distance of time between when
Speaker 1: it happened and when the tip was given, so they
Speaker 1: weren't able to go get any forensic evidence or anything
Speaker 1: like that that would have potentially existed in this house. Fingerprints. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if if this happened right, if this woman was telling
Speaker 1: the truth, there would have been for forensic evidence there
Speaker 1: and they would have been able to collect it and
Speaker 1: I would have probably yielded many more results in the
Speaker 1: long run. But if it was I they must have
Speaker 1: followed up with the owners of the house. I mean,
Speaker 1: if it was a vacation rental then and they rented
Speaker 1: it to somebody for a day or two, I presume
Speaker 1: I The only thing that you can never find about
Speaker 1: this is that it just there were no leads from it,
Speaker 1: So I presume that it wasn't actually rented on that day.
Speaker 1: This is always at most paph Yeah, but I did
Speaker 1: want to include it because it is kind of interesting,
Speaker 1: you know, Like we said before, while this case did
Speaker 1: drastically alter the way that parents behave with their children,
Speaker 1: the allowances they gave them, the kind of freedom they
Speaker 1: gave them, no one blames the family in this case,
Speaker 1: which I think is fair. And if you know something,
Speaker 1: there is still a one million dollar reward um for
Speaker 1: any information leading to this case being solved, which is
Speaker 1: still there's still a huge commitment to the solving of
Speaker 1: this case. And that's that's why thinking sideways is not
Speaker 1: going to solve it right at the moment, because actually
Speaker 1: that's how we're going to fund the showy year old mystery,
Speaker 1: and this whole thing. Yeah. Now, the thing about it
Speaker 1: is is if you go and you look at all
Speaker 1: the information on the internet, it's quite obvious who did
Speaker 1: the killing, and it's quite obvious where the bodies are.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately the Australian dollar is really weak right now,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to wait until it's a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago it was actually it is actually pretty strong,
Speaker 1: and now it's like worth you know, it's just not
Speaker 1: worth that much. So we're going to hold off on
Speaker 1: solving sorry folks. Yeah, so do Actually we do have
Speaker 1: really really big news we're really excited about, but we're
Speaker 1: not sure if we're going to release it or not
Speaker 1: on Australia. Get your acting then we can solve this case.
Speaker 1: It's on you. This is like that picture of a
Speaker 1: million likes, right, Like, if this picture just gets a
Speaker 1: million likes, Bill Gates will he will anyway at the
Speaker 1: end of the overview of this story, Steve, Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: more of course. Oh, we're we're in. I think this
Speaker 1: is going to happen for a while. Is there's more
Speaker 1: story to tell before we ever even get into the
Speaker 1: theory section, because as with all high profile cases, stuff
Speaker 1: just keeps happening. Yeah, and um, as a disclaimer, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know about you guys, but like I
Speaker 1: did my research on my parts and then like the
Speaker 1: other part kind of skimmed the cliff notes of the
Speaker 1: other parts. So just so our listeners are prepared, they're
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of weight. What But apparently there
Speaker 1: were some letters, some letters there were It's unclear the
Speaker 1: exact date that the first letters arrived. It was either
Speaker 1: thee or four February of nine. The Beaumonts received a
Speaker 1: letter that was supposedly from their daughter Jane, and of
Speaker 1: course Mr Paumont calls the cops. Smart, yeah, he calls.
Speaker 1: The lead detective on the case was Stan Swayin Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so Swain And I'm gonna he'll be referred
Speaker 1: to a couple of times through here. They check it
Speaker 1: out and the letter is evidently sent from a town
Speaker 1: that is called Dandenong. That yep, it's gonna go with that, Victoria.
Speaker 1: And it was evidently sent two or three days prior
Speaker 1: so they said it was sent on the twenty one
Speaker 1: to February based on its postmark. Those are pretty reliable.
Speaker 1: Those are pretty reliable. It's it's the arrival date. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm a little iffy on this because we don't
Speaker 1: know exactly what day had arrived. What the letters are
Speaker 1: weird because the handwriting isn't really Janes, like it's kind
Speaker 1: of Jins but not you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 1: like it's kid, right. Yeah, Well it's also hard at
Speaker 1: that age, Like I can look back at my journals. Yes,
Speaker 1: I kept journals from when I was nine until when
Speaker 1: I was eleven, right, that on a daily basis. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they went ahead and hoped, I'm going to say, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put it that way. They hoped that it was
Speaker 1: actually her handwriting. And the letters said that the children
Speaker 1: were good, We're okay, but that and that they would
Speaker 1: be returned to their parents, and all their parents had
Speaker 1: to do was follow a set of instructions, and that
Speaker 1: those instructions were that they that one of the parents.
Speaker 1: I believe it's it might have been expressly Mr Beaum
Speaker 1: though I think it is positive, but we're going to
Speaker 1: say it is um. And he had he had to
Speaker 1: wear a completely right no, not a pink jumps suit,
Speaker 1: not my uniform, no, No, Jim had to be in
Speaker 1: front of the post office in that town at eight
Speaker 1: fifty in the morning on the February, which was a Monday,
Speaker 1: and he was gonna be wearing a he had to
Speaker 1: wear a dark coat and white trousers. Of course, with
Speaker 1: all these letters, it says if tell costs, the whole
Speaker 1: thing's off, so you can't do anything. There is some
Speaker 1: very right off the stop top peculiarities with letters, and
Speaker 1: that is that Arna's name is continually spelled wrong. It's
Speaker 1: supposed to be two ends and it only has one
Speaker 1: end every time that it's used in the letter. But
Speaker 1: what the heck, We're going to go ahead and follow up.
Speaker 1: The parents leave for town on Sunday morning. They head out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they detectives. They took cops with them, of course, and
Speaker 1: this whole thing was supposed to be done on the
Speaker 1: on the download. It was going to be super hush.
Speaker 1: Somehow that didn't happen. One of the cops was Detective Swain. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: Swain did go but yeah, they were going to do
Speaker 1: it on the download, and that that somebody was a
Speaker 1: jerk and leaked it in Vain. Well, there's a couple
Speaker 1: of things that were wrong here. There's there's people who
Speaker 1: were honestly suspicious, but it did get leaked to the
Speaker 1: Adelaide Press somehow that this was going on, and so
Speaker 1: why I don't I'm not going to accuse anybody of
Speaker 1: taking bribes from the press, but I guess also, like
Speaker 1: my other part of that though, is that like if this,
Speaker 1: if the public commitment is to getting this thing solved
Speaker 1: and like ensuring the well being of the children, I
Speaker 1: think the commitment was that strong. Because we're not even
Speaker 1: a month later, we're barely a month after. It just
Speaker 1: still seems like any what editor worth its salt wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I mean, it's not like it's the
Speaker 1: UK Mail, Like, it's not you know, it's not that
Speaker 1: kind of publication. So yeah, that's upsetting to me. It's
Speaker 1: setting to me that they would have published something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but by the way, it wasn't just a month or so,
Speaker 1: it was it was like two years. Thank you, I'm
Speaker 1: an idiot. It's okay, it was a million years ago.
Speaker 1: It was it was two years after the fact. So
Speaker 1: I will agree then, Okay, you're right, But I also
Speaker 1: think that if it's been two years and this is
Speaker 1: a case that I feel like it's kind of like
Speaker 1: Lord Luken, he gets trotted out and lipped up, gets
Speaker 1: trotted out to sea. They send all these guys down there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just it just feels like I am going to
Speaker 1: blame the newspaper a little bit. I know a lot
Speaker 1: of other stuff happened that went wrong, and that's fine,
Speaker 1: but I am definitely going to place some pretty heavy
Speaker 1: blame whether the letters were real or not. You, as
Speaker 1: a newspaper shouldn't ever say, like, these people are going
Speaker 1: to like potentially recover their children after two years of searching,
Speaker 1: let's publish it before it happens. Now, they didn't publish it.
Speaker 1: They just they just of the Balmas to dandon the town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the town. Yeah. Actually, it's like they're like the Australians
Speaker 1: like the Brits, and so it's probably pronounced dong any who.
Speaker 1: So obviously the Adelaide newspaper guys are there. At the
Speaker 1: same time, there's a pub owner who sees Swayin wandering
Speaker 1: around and is suspicious something, and the reason is that
Speaker 1: somebody had been in that town breaking into safes and
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know who this guy is. I'm
Speaker 1: calling the call. Wasn't Swain or was it, Mr Beaumont,
Speaker 1: I can't remember. One of them was wearing like the
Speaker 1: black trench coat and the hat and like kind of wandering.
Speaker 1: I thought both of them were just like kind of
Speaker 1: wandering around suspicious. We were being suspicially the Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think Balt was loitering in front of the post office
Speaker 1: like you're supposed to. And then if the detective was
Speaker 1: just walking around the neighborhood like you know, being acting
Speaker 1: like a pedestrian just walking through, well, but I I
Speaker 1: really to get the impression that you're you're early on
Speaker 1: in the timeline because I think that if and I
Speaker 1: might be wrong, but I got the impression that the
Speaker 1: cops were called on Sunday when they were patrolling around
Speaker 1: trying to figure things out. Because what happens is this
Speaker 1: guy calls the cop. The cop somehow figures out that
Speaker 1: Swayne is a police officer in Adelaide, and what does
Speaker 1: he and I don't know how he does it. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure who he calls. But then what does he do?
Speaker 1: He goes ahead and calls the local press and tells
Speaker 1: them what's going on. So at A fifty the next morning,
Speaker 1: because Mr Beaumont is in front of the post office.
Speaker 1: He's doing what he's supposed to. But there's all of
Speaker 1: these I'm using air quotes here, random wandering people. I'm
Speaker 1: just minding my own business. Wasn't like I'm sure. Actually,
Speaker 1: let's just keep going because this is my favorite. It's
Speaker 1: about to come of phone calls. Yes, so so of
Speaker 1: course he's standing outside. Somebody calls he's out and he's
Speaker 1: outside the post office. Somebody calls the post office. It's
Speaker 1: a male voice with a Australian accent. He talks to
Speaker 1: this postal woman worker. It's a woman. She goes and says,
Speaker 1: I need you to take a message outside. She takes
Speaker 1: a message outside to Mr Beaumont saying that they're delayed
Speaker 1: and they they're on their way. Okay, everything seems fine
Speaker 1: so far. Not too long after that and I there's
Speaker 1: a telegraph comes through somehow. The message is conveyed again
Speaker 1: to Mr Beaumont that they're on their way, and then
Speaker 1: after that another message is brought to him saying that
Speaker 1: Grant is sick and so they can't be there till
Speaker 1: after lunch. And of course you know Mr he's hanging out,
Speaker 1: he's gonna wait and they're his kids. He's of course
Speaker 1: they're his kids. And he finally he gets there at
Speaker 1: eight fifty in the morning, he gives up three o'clock.
Speaker 1: I think he kind of figured out, yeah, he's had enough,
Speaker 1: and so obviously he didn't get his kids. What I
Speaker 1: don't really get about this is didn't the police. It's
Speaker 1: it's easy to find out what telegraph office the telegrams
Speaker 1: originated in. Don't ask me, brother, I I don't know
Speaker 1: why that didn't happen and did that well, and and
Speaker 1: there's there's some follow up, but it doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: at that time, I don't know why, you know, I
Speaker 1: kind of feel it feels a bit like there there
Speaker 1: was going on, you know, that suddenly it was just
Speaker 1: like nobody knew what to do anymore, nobody knew how
Speaker 1: to do their job anymore. Yeah, it was like, well,
Speaker 1: we don't want to blow our cover, so we're not
Speaker 1: going to go, you know, as soon as the telegram
Speaker 1: got we're not going to follow the telegram guy both
Speaker 1: back in because obviously he's being watched so or potentially
Speaker 1: you know, and by that point, I don't think you
Speaker 1: keep a necessarily great record of like this person at
Speaker 1: exactly this time said this telegraph saying this, but you
Speaker 1: can talk to the people who work in the office.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I know you right down text
Speaker 1: they send the text, so somebody's going to interact with you.
Speaker 1: And yeah, of course, I just think that, like if
Speaker 1: you follow up a couple of days later, especially if
Speaker 1: you happened to send it from a really populoust area,
Speaker 1: like well, you know, here's here's the thing too. And
Speaker 1: of course, well I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 1: to give away the ending, but more than one telegram
Speaker 1: was sent, So after the first telegram, if the cops
Speaker 1: had just you know, got in the telegraph telegraph office
Speaker 1: that received the telegraph the telegram and then found out
Speaker 1: from them where it originated. Right, But that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I thought, like, I think they still thought their cover
Speaker 1: was like they were still I think they thought they
Speaker 1: were still being really sneaky, and they were like, but
Speaker 1: if I follow this guy into his office, I'm not
Speaker 1: being sneaky anymore, you know what I mean, Like they
Speaker 1: were they still thought they had it versus like, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of days later, they realized like a cover
Speaker 1: was super blown. Immediately we were like dummies. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: okay to go question this person. Yeah, if if that
Speaker 1: had the telegrams, if the letters and everything had been
Speaker 1: for real, then that that would that really, in my mind,
Speaker 1: represents a huge lost opportunity. Absolutely, No, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think that one of the biggest problems in this
Speaker 1: entire case, as with so many cases we cover, is
Speaker 1: the fact that it was just totally bungled by the
Speaker 1: police a little bit. But Steve has more things to say.
Speaker 1: I'm just staring at you too, watching your blabern Okay,
Speaker 1: so we've talked about the fact that several telegrams come through.
Speaker 1: One of them says they're going to be late. The
Speaker 1: other one tells Mr Beaumont to go wait across. This
Speaker 1: is my favorite part. I just like that is seriously
Speaker 1: my favorite part of this entire story, because I just
Speaker 1: imagine it was like, Okay, you've got the image. You
Speaker 1: have a bunch of people in like n C. I
Speaker 1: s right there doing a steak out or the wire
Speaker 1: they're doing a stake out, and it's like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: just a homeless person. I'm asking for money. Oh I'm
Speaker 1: a person giving you you know, it's like all staged.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, but the moves right, So like Mr Baman
Speaker 1: gets the thing and he's like, okay, I'll grow go
Speaker 1: across the street. And he goes across the street and
Speaker 1: like two seconds later, everybody else is around him again too,
Speaker 1: with the same exact tableau just on the other side.
Speaker 1: That's that mental image is one of my favorite mental
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Mr Bamant stays in that town for
Speaker 1: a total he he waits outside the post office for
Speaker 1: a total of three days, hoping that something's going to happen,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't, but more letters are sent to the
Speaker 1: family's home. There are three letters that are sent in
Speaker 1: two envelopes, and one of them was postmarked from the
Speaker 1: twenty ninth of February from that same city town, same
Speaker 1: same town, and would have been on the same The
Speaker 1: other one was from the same day, but it arrived
Speaker 1: the same day. It was posted on the same day.
Speaker 1: Is the way that it's written. I'm assuming that it was.
Speaker 1: That means that the post office handled it and stamped
Speaker 1: it that day, but it's not. It's never been said
Speaker 1: where it came from. I would presume that it was
Speaker 1: the same town, but maybe whoever was sending him went
Speaker 1: to the next town and it went through their post system.
Speaker 1: I'm I can't clarify that. But the letters they show
Speaker 1: up and again there's a letter from Jane and in
Speaker 1: that letter, um, well there's two letters. Yeah, there's the
Speaker 1: letter from Jane and it's it's signed. It's still in
Speaker 1: that weird handwriting that's not quite Jane's handwriting, but it's
Speaker 1: still there. And then there is there's what's called the
Speaker 1: disguised handwriting, which I think means I'm writing with my
Speaker 1: left hand so you can't tell who I am. Kind
Speaker 1: of disguised handwriting. It's really terrible. I'm guessing from but
Speaker 1: it's it's signed the man and it says that because
Speaker 1: the Beaumont didn't play ball, the kids aren't going to
Speaker 1: be returned. Um. And it's it's really it's it's just
Speaker 1: it's kind of a brutal thing. And the whole thing
Speaker 1: is brutal to me because it turns out, as I
Speaker 1: think everybody's figured out at this point, the whole thing
Speaker 1: was a hoax because in that waste they looked at
Speaker 1: the letters again, but they didn't get much out of him.
Speaker 1: And then ten years ten eleven years later they had
Speaker 1: better ways to to fingerprint things, and they were able
Speaker 1: to pull prints off of them, and they found the
Speaker 1: guy who wrote the letter, and he was he was
Speaker 1: a kid when he did it. He was seventeen year
Speaker 1: old kid who thought it was funny and he did this.
Speaker 1: But the whole time after he felt, you know, as
Speaker 1: he matured, he was really regretful of the whole thing
Speaker 1: and realized what a jackass movement was. But so the
Speaker 1: letters are weird and they're alluded to, but the whole
Speaker 1: thing turns out to be for not Yeah, yeah, too bad,
Speaker 1: all right, So the time goes by. This is actually
Speaker 1: this what I'm gonna talk about now, happened before the
Speaker 1: letters arrived. This is later in the year of nineteen six.
Speaker 1: This was obviously a huge deal and it got worldwide publicity, publicity,
Speaker 1: and so a Dutch paras psychologist or psychic psychic who
Speaker 1: was named offered his services. He was actually sometimes consulted
Speaker 1: by Dutch police in murder and missing person cases. And
Speaker 1: he was the girl with the dragon tattoo. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: had crazy hair. There's a picture requisite crazy hair. Do
Speaker 1: you see this picture? It wasn't as crazy as I
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be. But it was still
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy. Yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: wasn't as crazy as I thought it was going to
Speaker 1: because it was missing the top part. Yeah. But man, anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's good. There is a bull joke. Yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a Wikipedia page this guy. You can look at the
Speaker 1: picture yourself. Is his name is? Is? Actually um, it's
Speaker 1: spelled like Gerard Cross Croisset. But yeah, so Gerard Croissets
Speaker 1: and so no, no, they should have to figure out
Speaker 1: how to spell it. They should have to figure out
Speaker 1: how to pronounce it. What's wrong with you? If they
Speaker 1: insist we pronounced things correctly, they should figure out how
Speaker 1: to spell things from our pronunciation. That's right. Screwed, Yeah, ruined? Okay,
Speaker 1: so what so? Did he was involved in this case
Speaker 1: and he didn't involved his career by the way, it
Speaker 1: was kind of a mixed bag. He actually did occasionally
Speaker 1: succeed in giving police clues that helped to solve the
Speaker 1: occasional murder, missing person or missing bodies. Do you think
Speaker 1: it's like we could give helpful clues to people? I
Speaker 1: have two feelings, one is living, the other is dead.
Speaker 1: Who is Tom? Oh? You mean Tim? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're stealing street from Facebook seemed to fail more off
Speaker 1: and then he succeeded. Yeah, but they what the hell,
Speaker 1: they were desperate. They sent him photos and other information
Speaker 1: about the disappearance um, and he contacted them and gave
Speaker 1: them some clues about his feeling about where the kids
Speaker 1: might might be, more their bodies might be. And of
Speaker 1: course all those were checked out. None of them panned out,
Speaker 1: so eventually decided to would be better if he went
Speaker 1: to Australia. Yeah that makes sense, like feelings better, closer
Speaker 1: to boots on the ground and honest uf yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and his travel expenses were paid by a rich Australian
Speaker 1: businessman who had taken an interest in the case. Who
Speaker 1: is hilarious looking by the way. Yeah, oh he he uh.
Speaker 1: He wears great suits and funny hats. Yeah I've seen
Speaker 1: Oh you had to ask me. I knew it until then.
Speaker 1: But he's the funniest looking guy ever. Okay, Well, well, anyway,
Speaker 1: it's very generous of them to treat close to a
Speaker 1: free trip to Australia. The Bamas, for their part, didn't
Speaker 1: actually want to meet with Class because they thought he
Speaker 1: was a quack. They didn't believe in psychics, and they
Speaker 1: also really were not happy about the media feeding frenzy
Speaker 1: that was taking place. Yeah, the word got out that
Speaker 1: he was coming and everybody got all excited. Uh. He
Speaker 1: did succeed in actually meeting with the Beaumas before he
Speaker 1: left Australia, but yeah, I don't think they took him
Speaker 1: too seriously. Yeah, he kept changing his mind about where
Speaker 1: they were then, This is before he even arrived in Australia.
Speaker 1: He was he kept changing his mind about that. At
Speaker 1: first he said they were only half a mile from
Speaker 1: where they disappeared, maybe in a collapsed stormwater pipe, and
Speaker 1: then he changed his mind, said that they were in
Speaker 1: some sand dunes. UM. When he arrived in Australia, which
Speaker 1: was like November, he walked on the beach and just
Speaker 1: sort of commune with nature and stuff, and then said
Speaker 1: that he felt that they were buried under the floor
Speaker 1: of a warehouse that had recently been constructed. Um and
Speaker 1: so he he requested that they rip up the concrete
Speaker 1: floor of the warehouse because the bodies were underneath the
Speaker 1: underneath there. The police were skeptical because they had searched
Speaker 1: the area thoroughly at the time the kids disappeared. This
Speaker 1: was actually a building site and then so they hadn't
Speaker 1: poured the concrete slab yet, so actually in all likely
Speaker 1: place to dispose of some bodies. What the police had
Speaker 1: had apparently searched the work site before the concrete slab
Speaker 1: had been poured, and so they were extremely skeptical. And
Speaker 1: of course the building's owner wasn't enthusiastic at all about
Speaker 1: the idea. Of course, the person who has a stake
Speaker 1: in this building. Oh yeah, uh. They kicked off a
Speaker 1: big fundraising campaign to raise funds to compensate the owner
Speaker 1: for the damage that was going to be done. Raised
Speaker 1: about forty bucks. They ripped up the floor and found nothing,
Speaker 1: and then again they it was the building was partially
Speaker 1: demoed in and then the current owner then let the
Speaker 1: police society again and once again nothing was found. And
Speaker 1: this is weird. Well, they brought in the cadaver dogs.
Speaker 1: Remember that, because I actually watched some of the footage
Speaker 1: from that, because of course you media feeding frenzy. The
Speaker 1: cameras are all there, and I must have watched four
Speaker 1: different newscasts in a row that were you know, they
Speaker 1: had the cadaver dogs and the pits trying to figure
Speaker 1: things out. The dogs weren't really getting much of anything weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they were may not have been bodies there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe their bodies weren't there. Yeah yeah. Actually, uh later
Speaker 1: told somebody that he actually believed that the children were
Speaker 1: buried in the foundation of a block of apartments, but
Speaker 1: then he didn't he didn't say anything about that because
Speaker 1: he didn't want to upset the people living in the apartment,
Speaker 1: so he decided on the warehouse instead. That reached him manure. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that, will I forget it. But
Speaker 1: he left Australia Australia. Many people thought that he was
Speaker 1: just a fraud and he never came back. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: also there's another psychic who has kind of stuck him
Speaker 1: inserted himself into this case. Uh, Australian guy named Scott
Speaker 1: Russell Hill who claims to be a psychic detective, and
Speaker 1: he's written a book called Psychic Detective. That's a good name.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't think that. He says
Speaker 1: that he knew the Beaumont kids when he was young,
Speaker 1: and I didn't bother to check that out, and I'll
Speaker 1: take him at his words. Yeah. He also said that
Speaker 1: he encountered with Grant's ghost. Remember Grant was a little
Speaker 1: four year old. I'll also take that at face value. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he had account ghost and he says he's working
Speaker 1: on the case, but so far nothing. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: only part of this that I believe. Yeah. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: so the psychics didn't really pan out a last. When
Speaker 1: you want to talk about next suspects, maybe, yeah, you
Speaker 1: guys were there, I want to talk about suspect No,
Speaker 1: not at all. I guess we'll start because suspects are
Speaker 1: theories at this point. Yeah. Yeah, the theories are or
Speaker 1: who done it? Yeah, there are really interesting ones. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the first one is a gentleman, if you can
Speaker 1: go on that, by the name of Bevin Spencer von Einem.
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to preface this by saying, sometimes
Speaker 1: when you research this kind of mystery, you end up
Speaker 1: having to research a person who was so horrible that
Speaker 1: you literally do not know where to start. And I
Speaker 1: think Steve felt this way too when researching his suspect um.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go ahead and say, of all of
Speaker 1: the real life confirmed killers we've ever talked about in
Speaker 1: the show, this guy in my book takes the cake
Speaker 1: every single time. I watched a number of news pieces
Speaker 1: about this guy, and every single time they referred to
Speaker 1: him as the sadistic von Eimen. That was that his title,
Speaker 1: Like that's his name. Now he is currently alive and
Speaker 1: currently in jail. Well, and if he's part of what
Speaker 1: he's alleged to be part of, then it's super He's
Speaker 1: definitely part of what he's alleged to be part of.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go on the record and say he's
Speaker 1: absolutely part of that, and we'll talk about that. He's
Speaker 1: not He's not a nice guy. I wasn't trying to
Speaker 1: defend this a great citizen. I mean, he's in jail
Speaker 1: for a long time for a reason. Yeah, but guess
Speaker 1: what the possibility of problem? She doesn't get that anyways,
Speaker 1: W go Australia. Einem was born in nineteen forty five
Speaker 1: or maybe nineteen fifty nine, I'm not sure, to be honestly.
Speaker 1: When you google him, right, there's usually that like preview
Speaker 1: of the Wikipedia page, and on the preview it says
Speaker 1: born in nineteen fifty nine, and you click through and
Speaker 1: it's like born in nineteen So I literally don't know
Speaker 1: ye what year he was born in I'm I so too.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going with for all of the like
Speaker 1: ages that we're gonna refer to in a little bit.
Speaker 1: But just so you guys know, there is that discrepancy
Speaker 1: on the Internet Internet somewhere, I'm going to say that
Speaker 1: that was a Wikipedia update that then got cash by.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's possible. Yeah, Um, so he was born in
Speaker 1: Australia because it was a suspect and he was born
Speaker 1: in it would have been seven yea. Probably not that
Speaker 1: his Wikipedia and Murtipedia page list his number of victims
Speaker 1: as one to five plus. Probably doesn't. He is currently
Speaker 1: serving life with possibility of parole somehow. Like we said,
Speaker 1: I kind of suspect he's never going to get He's
Speaker 1: definitely not. But the fact that it's a possibility is
Speaker 1: interesting to me. To understand why he's so horrible, you
Speaker 1: have to learn about something that happened in the late
Speaker 1: seventies to mid eighties in Adelaide called the Family murders.
Speaker 1: Who in hell named this the media? Actually yeah, folcally
Speaker 1: this is it's a group of suspects that was called
Speaker 1: the Family and police are adamantly against calling them that
Speaker 1: because they feel like it gives legitimacy to a group
Speaker 1: of people who did some really bad stuff but aren't
Speaker 1: affiliated with each other anymore. I don't know how the
Speaker 1: police choose to refer to these guys, so unfortunately, we're
Speaker 1: going to refer to them as the family. How well
Speaker 1: documented is the existence of this group? Um, it's from
Speaker 1: what I have read, it's internally confirmed within the police.
Speaker 1: The problem you run into, um shockingly, put on your
Speaker 1: tin hats, is that everybody but I am is allegedly
Speaker 1: either a really successful business person or connected to the
Speaker 1: politics society, politicians, judges, yeah, um, or just you know,
Speaker 1: rich business people, so they've got the connections. So it's
Speaker 1: actually when you when you research about these they're referred
Speaker 1: to as um item and then you've got suspect one, two,
Speaker 1: and three. They're not named, even though the police are
Speaker 1: pretty sure they knew who these people are. How do
Speaker 1: psychotic perverse like this find each other? I mean, and
Speaker 1: seriously interesting, isn't it. You just like walk up to
Speaker 1: your guy in the bar and say, hey, what are
Speaker 1: you into? And they meet each other on per book.
Speaker 1: Yeah in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, But I've always wondered about,
Speaker 1: like like previously, like we talked about Leonard Lake and
Speaker 1: Charles Ing you know each other. That was a prison Yeah,
Speaker 1: but those two met in prison. But it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: how did they One of them said, Hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I really like this torturing and raping and murder. How
Speaker 1: about you do me? No, I don't know, and I
Speaker 1: especially don't know how these guys all met, but they did,
Speaker 1: and together they are suspected to be responsible for at
Speaker 1: least five, but probably twelve or thirteen murders all um,
Speaker 1: almost all young people. The oldest one is twenty five,
Speaker 1: but that's an outlier. The bulk of them are under seventeen.
Speaker 1: And as it turns out, all but one of the
Speaker 1: like five like definitely attributed to these people. Murderers are unsolved,
Speaker 1: so that means that we know what we're doing next October.
Speaker 1: He just kidding. Um. The one that has been solved
Speaker 1: is the one that von Einen is serving life for
Speaker 1: the murder of Richard Kelvin in Um nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go too deep into this. It's
Speaker 1: really really vicious. But Richard was a fifteen year old
Speaker 1: boy who was kidnapped, raped, sodomized, and tortured for five
Speaker 1: weeks until his death caused by massive blood loss due
Speaker 1: to an anal dream. Um. His body was dumped on
Speaker 1: July three, unceremoniously and really poorly hidden right next to
Speaker 1: an airfield, and they found a lot of drugs. They
Speaker 1: found a quote massive amount of um what they call
Speaker 1: hypnotic drugs, drugs which are sedatives, um. And it was
Speaker 1: four different kinds and this is this is what this
Speaker 1: is what did Yeah, they did a search of his house. Um.
Speaker 1: Actually they did a search of people who had been
Speaker 1: prescribed these drugs, and a Mr. B Von I'm in
Speaker 1: I M can be the names to the I'm sorry
Speaker 1: came up and the police knew this name because he
Speaker 1: had been questioned in conjunction with four other almost identical cases.
Speaker 1: Apparently his prescription was for a massive amount of these
Speaker 1: drugs too, Wasn't it like a couple of thousand pills
Speaker 1: over the course of like two years that he had
Speaker 1: been prescribed like eight Michael, all four of these um.
Speaker 1: But he he was found to be in possession of
Speaker 1: two of the drugs that were found in Richard's system.
Speaker 1: So the police went to his house. They said, hey, uh,
Speaker 1: can we search your house? And he said yeah, totally, um.
Speaker 1: And they found one of the well, they found one
Speaker 1: of the drugs in his medicine cabinet. He said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's prescribed to me. And they said, okay, are there
Speaker 1: any other drugs in the house and he said no, no,
Speaker 1: And they pulled a wardrobe away from the door and
Speaker 1: there was another bottle of one of the other kinds
Speaker 1: of medicines that was found in richard system. And they said,
Speaker 1: as this years and he said, oh, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: don't take it a whole lot anyway. It's actually kind
Speaker 1: of god, I hate to say this, it's kind of
Speaker 1: an interesting case if you want to read about it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of really good reading out there on this.
Speaker 1: But that was a lot of other physical evidence. And
Speaker 1: so luckily and yeah, frankly, I think for considering the
Speaker 1: severity of the crime, they should have strung him up. Yes,
Speaker 1: So the case was really really strong against him. He
Speaker 1: had been acting kind of suspicious the entire time. Um.
Speaker 1: So he was eventually sentenced to life in prison with
Speaker 1: a twenty four year no parole term that was immediately
Speaker 1: appealed and amended to a thirty six year no parole term.
Speaker 1: The term was up in two thousand seven, but the
Speaker 1: at time Premier of South Australia vowed that he would
Speaker 1: not leave jail alive if it's a thirty six year
Speaker 1: no parole term. And he went to jail in eighty
Speaker 1: three that oh, three thirteen. Did he go to jail
Speaker 1: that year? Yeah, that means but it was nine? Sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't mention there. They push up parole
Speaker 1: for things like good behavior. Okay, got it. I was
Speaker 1: the math wasn't working, And I think that it's possible
Speaker 1: that I got that number from the twenty four year
Speaker 1: no parole term, not the thirty six but he was
Speaker 1: up for parole. Did it didn't go through? I will
Speaker 1: never go through. It won't anyhow. The family is likely
Speaker 1: responsible for the other four murders um starting in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine of mostly teenage boys. All five of them
Speaker 1: died due to massive blood loss caused by an adal
Speaker 1: injury UM. Oh, except for one of them was undetermined
Speaker 1: because farmer had set the body on fire on accident
Speaker 1: um bad tractor. So the thing about em didn't the
Speaker 1: jury deliberate deliberate for like all of three hours before
Speaker 1: it was actually seven and a half a half. Yeah. Yeah, so, um, well,
Speaker 1: but why is Vonayan considered a suspect in the Bouman
Speaker 1: children disappearance? Good question. Neither of you asked it. Shame
Speaker 1: on you. I was letting your listeners ask it. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean his m O doesn't necessarily match
Speaker 1: the Beaumont children. Yeah. So this the allegation actually stems
Speaker 1: in part from, uh, some footage that was taken by
Speaker 1: a local news station at the time when the initial
Speaker 1: search was mounted for the Beaumont children. UM. And in
Speaker 1: one clip, the police are searching a storm drain and
Speaker 1: there are a lot of onlookers and one of the
Speaker 1: men looking on looks almost exactly like I am, at
Speaker 1: like twenty or twenty one, which is how old he
Speaker 1: would have been at the time. UM. And they actually
Speaker 1: found an image of him from like four or five
Speaker 1: years later, when he was twenty five. UM. And then
Speaker 1: they for reference, they darkened his hair a little bit
Speaker 1: and gave him similar sunglasses. So, UM, I know our
Speaker 1: listeners don't have this image, but if you will turn
Speaker 1: the page, do look rather similar. It's it's a startling similarity,
Speaker 1: and it's a good comparison. And I would say that
Speaker 1: it's not. He doesn't necessarily look like an everyday Joe.
Speaker 1: You know when I look at this image, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at that image, you're not
Speaker 1: immediately like black could be anybody. It's they look he's
Speaker 1: got a very distinct feature. He's got a distinct dry
Speaker 1: line and chin. He's got a real jetting chin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: although the fact that he was just sort of hanging
Speaker 1: around while the police were doing their thing doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: prove much of anything, certainly not, but but it would
Speaker 1: place him at the area at that time. Apparently the
Speaker 1: report I read some reports that one of the men
Speaker 1: standing next to him also looks very similar to to
Speaker 1: another one of the alleged families that the old man,
Speaker 1: because the people who were standing there, they're kind of
Speaker 1: in pairs. There's one pair and then there's one him
Speaker 1: and this other guy. And I assumed that they were
Speaker 1: talking about the guy. So the other part of this
Speaker 1: is the statements by um a witness which which was
Speaker 1: just referred to as Mr B. And he's deemed a
Speaker 1: highly credible witness for almost everything, and he gave a
Speaker 1: lot of information that led to the arrest and conviction
Speaker 1: of on Iron allegedly He once told Mr B that
Speaker 1: he had several years ago, taken three children from a beach,
Speaker 1: taken them home, and um quote conducted experiments on them.
Speaker 1: He said that he had performed performed a surgery on
Speaker 1: each of them. Uh, then quote connected them together. And
Speaker 1: I really hope it just means he tied them together,
Speaker 1: not surgically attached them. I don't know that. I kind
Speaker 1: of think, uh. And one of the children had died
Speaker 1: during the operations, so he killed the other two and
Speaker 1: then dumped their bodies in the Bushland's home operation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can see how that would kill somebody. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: apparently actually he did live in the area and did
Speaker 1: go to Glenelg Beach to perv on the changing room
Speaker 1: a lot, And I guess it's possible. I don't know
Speaker 1: a whole lot about psychopathic ms and if they age
Speaker 1: or change at all. But if he were a young
Speaker 1: man targeting a younger demographic and that demographic aged with him,
Speaker 1: that's not something I've ever heard of. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know either young boys you're into young men,
Speaker 1: or you just kill people at random, Like I've never
Speaker 1: I've never heard of anything where it's he was a
Speaker 1: young man, so he was into children, and then when
Speaker 1: he was a middle aged man, he was into young
Speaker 1: man and progressing that way. I guess it was pure speculation,
Speaker 1: but if there, if it were because of some sort
Speaker 1: of trauma, that it would it could potentially age with you.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Cason desires change with time, and
Speaker 1: that goes for psychos as well as regularly, but also
Speaker 1: potentially that he you know, if he was a psycho
Speaker 1: and was really his draw was too much younger children,
Speaker 1: and when he was working alone, he had been targeting
Speaker 1: younger children, and then he found this group of people
Speaker 1: that was like, dude, seriously like four year olds. I
Speaker 1: don't know, fourteen year olds is like more where it's at.
Speaker 1: That's fine, So I don't but I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess there's also a possibility of that or there's influence well,
Speaker 1: you know, and this he if if what we're talking
Speaker 1: about is correct, he is then exactly who you were
Speaker 1: speculating a about one of you. Recently, when we talked
Speaker 1: about the serial killer, we were just kind of theorizing
Speaker 1: the serial killer who continually changed their m oh, they
Speaker 1: didn't actually have I'm sure you're the one who brought
Speaker 1: that up. Actually, I don't think that was me. I
Speaker 1: think that was one of you. But the point is this,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good that that's a that's a good idea.
Speaker 1: It's a good I mean, it's a it's an interesting point.
Speaker 1: I I think that personally, if you're targeting, you know,
Speaker 1: people in the four to nine year old range, there's
Speaker 1: a couple of good reasons for it, and it's probably
Speaker 1: it probably is not going to change. One handy thing
Speaker 1: about little kids is that they're fairly naive and small
Speaker 1: and weak and so. But I guess if like, if
Speaker 1: you're thinking, like I want to overpower and do horrible
Speaker 1: things to a person, right, if you're one single person,
Speaker 1: you're going to target something that's easier than if you're
Speaker 1: a group of five grown men, four grown men, three children.
Speaker 1: Though isn't easy that's gained their trust. I don't know. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing pro or con on this one. It's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. And then I guess a few
Speaker 1: other things we need to mention because I'm just going
Speaker 1: to move this forward a little bit. Um. One is
Speaker 1: that apparently Vaughan I'm in was um he was reported
Speaker 1: to be preoccupied with children, whether that like we've been
Speaker 1: arguing back and forth, Mr B did say that he
Speaker 1: was preoccupied with children and that he actually claimed to
Speaker 1: have also taken two girls from a football match and
Speaker 1: killed them, because he actually claimed that, or was he
Speaker 1: just accused of that? You know? He actually he told
Speaker 1: Mr B. So this was like in an encounter, he
Speaker 1: told Mr B. Oh, yeah, I took three kids several
Speaker 1: years ago. I took three kids from a beach and
Speaker 1: did this to them. And then a few years later
Speaker 1: I took two girls from a football match. He didn't
Speaker 1: never like say specifically like it was these kids and
Speaker 1: I took them. Um. So I think, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, that lends additional credibility to me that he
Speaker 1: was telling the truth versus like him just kind of bragging,
Speaker 1: because if he were trying to brag to brag, he
Speaker 1: would have said, like I'm responsible for the Beaumont kids,
Speaker 1: I'm responsible for this specific case. It wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: like a vague yeah, I did this thing in my mind,
Speaker 1: people could commit these heinous crimes and then actually bragged
Speaker 1: to people. I guess Mr B was one of his
Speaker 1: fellow purvs, right, I think the sense that I have
Speaker 1: is that Mr b was kind of like a an associate,
Speaker 1: not one that was responsible for like actually killing and
Speaker 1: kidnapping and things like that, but that he was granted
Speaker 1: some sort of immunities for his testimony. But the case
Speaker 1: that Steve was alluding to was that, um, Joanne Radcliffe
Speaker 1: and Christie Gordon are two girls did go missing from
Speaker 1: a football game uh in Adelaide in nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 1: The other issues that there is is, I know we
Speaker 1: didn't mention this when we were kind of going through
Speaker 1: but the description, Yeah, the the witnesses description of the
Speaker 1: blonde man in the blue swim trunks. Um, they guessed
Speaker 1: that he was in his thirties, UM, which was older
Speaker 1: than von I m would have been. UM. But photos
Speaker 1: of him from around that time do actually really closely
Speaker 1: match the sketches. He was kind of a sandy blonde
Speaker 1: at that point. UM. And then I would be remiss
Speaker 1: if I didn't mention the first reason that anybody knew
Speaker 1: about Von Einman, and that is the night of May tenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, which is just weird. If you read
Speaker 1: his Wikipedia page, you will find a heading called the
Speaker 1: Good Samaritan and on night of May nine, two gay
Speaker 1: men were thrown into the river Torrens and this attack
Speaker 1: was widely believed to have been carried out by a
Speaker 1: group of police officers squad h Yeah, and one of
Speaker 1: the men did drown and the other one survived with
Speaker 1: a broken leg or maybe broken ankle. Accounts Ferry broken something,
Speaker 1: but he I guess played dead until the cops left,
Speaker 1: crawled out of the river, crawled to a road, flagged
Speaker 1: down a passing car. The driver took the man to
Speaker 1: the hospital. The driver was Bevin Spencer Van I am,
Speaker 1: I am, which is weird, Like I know you would
Speaker 1: think would like it. I'll push the guy back down
Speaker 1: the river back and then got down and murder him.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just a little weird, I guess in
Speaker 1: my mind, which is like it just kind of brings
Speaker 1: up that like stigma that we have about psychopaths that
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, they just want to kill everyone, but
Speaker 1: they don't kill a certain act. Yeah, he has he
Speaker 1: has very specific tastes. So anyway, that's um, that's him,
Speaker 1: and I kind of like him. I wasn't able to
Speaker 1: find explicitly where in South Australia he was living at
Speaker 1: the time of the disappearance of the Beaumont children, but
Speaker 1: it sounds like he was in the area. He you know,
Speaker 1: kind of casually claimed that he was responsible for a
Speaker 1: lot of these disappearances. I think he was probably certainly
Speaker 1: capable of it. He kind of matches the description. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think he's a plausible He certainly is.
Speaker 1: We'll never will probably never know unless well, he's still alive,
Speaker 1: so he might fess up one of these things. He's
Speaker 1: still alive, but you but he has the possibility of parole,
Speaker 1: even though people think he's not gonna ever make it out.
Speaker 1: But if he were, like, yeah, I did those crimes,
Speaker 1: like he'd be dead pretty quick and he's never going
Speaker 1: to get out of parole anyway, though, somebody needs to
Speaker 1: convince that. Yeah, but there might be a deathbed confession
Speaker 1: confession you know, hopefully one can help. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's h that's my guys. Yeah, my guy's just a
Speaker 1: total champ too. So thanks for whoever saddled me with
Speaker 1: this one. You volunteered, I actually didn't. I said I
Speaker 1: don't care. Joe was the one who was typing that
Speaker 1: we don't care. Well, let's talk about this guy in
Speaker 1: true killer fashion. He's got three names. He's always identified
Speaker 1: as Arthur Stanley Brown. We're just gonna kind of take him,
Speaker 1: as we do with a lot of these guys. We're
Speaker 1: just gonna take you kind of through who they are
Speaker 1: and what they've done, and then why it's relevant to
Speaker 1: the case. So Arthur was born nine lived in a town,
Speaker 1: uh most of his life, a place called Townsville. It
Speaker 1: fully sounds like it's out of a cartoon. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like towntown town Berg. Yeah. Townsville is northwest of Brisbane.
Speaker 1: It's god, it's like kilometers, so it's it's a good
Speaker 1: distance away from there. But that was kind of a landmark.
Speaker 1: I could find what is that in miles? I don't know, Joe,
Speaker 1: what is that in miles? Kilometers? That's all right, I
Speaker 1: can get my phone and get the calculmar. I want
Speaker 1: you to do that. He So Brown did Mary. He
Speaker 1: married a woman whose name was Hester Anderson. I'm sorry, Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Devin likes the name Hester. Hester had three children of
Speaker 1: her own from her first marriage, and uh, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say thankfully she never had any children with Arthur. According
Speaker 1: to the you will see it referred to as either
Speaker 1: the family secret or the family legend. Everybody knew in
Speaker 1: the family that Arthur had a thing for kids, and
Speaker 1: then he was a pedophile. And there are allegations that
Speaker 1: he molested a number of children in the family. And
Speaker 1: I don't just mean his wife's children. It sounds like
Speaker 1: he was any children in the family that he could
Speaker 1: get his grubby little hands. This is the one that
Speaker 1: the book's being written about. Or is it a different person?
Speaker 1: What book are you talking about? The satin Oh No,
Speaker 1: that's that's Harry. Different guy, that's Harry. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: different guy, totally different person, very similar backgrounds. But it's
Speaker 1: from the accounting that the parents told the kids to
Speaker 1: keep away from him, and they told him, they told
Speaker 1: him why they were Evidently didn't hide the fact that
Speaker 1: they considered him a pedo. They don't understand why they didn't.
Speaker 1: Just like to the police, I say the same freaking thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I did learn a really an
Speaker 1: interesting slang, which is rock spider. Evidently that's slang for
Speaker 1: a pedophile in Australia and I've never heard of that one.
Speaker 1: But the kids used to all of the kids in
Speaker 1: the family would refer to him as a rock spider,
Speaker 1: so they all knew stay away from that guy. He
Speaker 1: He is pretty well known because of a case that happened.
Speaker 1: It's a disappearance in killing that of two young girls
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy's the s of August nineteen seventy. We
Speaker 1: have Susan and Judith Mackay and these girls are five
Speaker 1: and seven and they disappeared from a suburb which is
Speaker 1: eight Conville. Believe it's how your pronounced. Their bodies were.
Speaker 1: They disappeared on the twenty six. Their bodies were found
Speaker 1: two days later in a creek bed and they had
Speaker 1: been molested and both of them had been stabbed in
Speaker 1: the chest three times of peace. One of them was
Speaker 1: strangled that the stabs weren't what killed them. One of
Speaker 1: them was strangled and one of them it's officially it
Speaker 1: was a fixiate it with sand asfixiated Yeah, that word, um,
Speaker 1: I don't or I don't know if that is that
Speaker 1: or shove face in sand till run off. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But but the hunt for the girls was huge and
Speaker 1: there eventually was a big reward put out for information.
Speaker 1: It was ten thousand dollars at the time, which is
Speaker 1: equivalent to about a hundred grand today. People came forward,
Speaker 1: they had all these stories of what they had seen. Um.
Speaker 1: But some people to people who came forward that would
Speaker 1: become important to this are a man who was said
Speaker 1: he saw the girls at a bus stop at eight
Speaker 1: ten that morning, and then another person who said he
Speaker 1: saw the girls in a car at a gas station
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock in the morning, and the guy at
Speaker 1: the gas station said he overheard the girls, one of
Speaker 1: them saying, you said you were going to take us
Speaker 1: to see mummy. I want to see mummy now, So
Speaker 1: that you know that kind of to me. I don't
Speaker 1: know why. Well I do know why it was discredited
Speaker 1: at the time, and but we won't get too much
Speaker 1: into that. So here's what goes on though, is that
Speaker 1: people say they see these girls in a car, and
Speaker 1: the car description is really really bad. It turns out
Speaker 1: to be described as a blue car. But there's three
Speaker 1: different kinds. There is a Holden e H which is
Speaker 1: kind of a it's it's like a late sixties that
Speaker 1: flat square style of car. Yeah, yep. There's there's a
Speaker 1: couple of witnesses who say well, no, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1: Instead it was a Vauxhall Victor, and the Vauxell is
Speaker 1: more of a nineteen fifties round ish car. You know,
Speaker 1: they don't look they don't look much alike at all.
Speaker 1: And what's even worse is that the people who say
Speaker 1: that it was a Vauxhall Victor, they eventually changed their
Speaker 1: description to a different kind of hole that. I think
Speaker 1: it's a hold In f J, which is also kind
Speaker 1: of a nineteen fifties roundies style looking car. But the
Speaker 1: one thing that those two people do agree upon is
Speaker 1: the fact that this blue car had a driver's side
Speaker 1: door that wasn't the same color as the rest of
Speaker 1: the car. Interesting, if you're gonna be a handy tip
Speaker 1: for you would be serial killers out there, you want
Speaker 1: to like not have cars like that. Yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 1: that's the focus. Yeah, or an Escort or something. But Honda,
Speaker 1: Honda Accord, maybe a Kia maybe Kia. Well, well, the
Speaker 1: point is the cops went with a Holden. They decided
Speaker 1: it's got to be the Holden. I don't remember. I
Speaker 1: think it was the the e H is the description
Speaker 1: they went with. So people are looking for holdens that
Speaker 1: have a weird colored door and obviously never find the car.
Speaker 1: We then jumped forward to and at the point Arthur's
Speaker 1: one of his relatives sees a TV show where the
Speaker 1: case of these two girls is. You know, it's one
Speaker 1: of those kind of cold case rehash TV shows, and
Speaker 1: she says, well, you know, the description kind of sounds
Speaker 1: like that's that skiezy uncle of mine. And she reports him,
Speaker 1: and okay, she sees the sketch of the man. They
Speaker 1: had a sketch of the man who's driving the car,
Speaker 1: and you think, well, okay, it's like thirty years later.
Speaker 1: He can't look like the same dude except the brown. Really,
Speaker 1: he didn't he aged, but his face looked remarkably similar
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy to two thousand. It got wrinkly, but
Speaker 1: it didn't sag or really change at all. He's one
Speaker 1: of those disturbing people who I you've I've talked about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he just he doesn't he Yeah, he's that painting somewhere.
Speaker 1: He doesn't look like he aged. That. That explains something here,
Speaker 1: because I was going to mention later, but being born
Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve, the Guy and the Beast was described
Speaker 1: as mid thirties and he would have been fifty four,
Speaker 1: so maybe he did at just age really really well. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean we've had this conversation. I have an uncle
Speaker 1: who is in his seventies, and if you didn't know
Speaker 1: what you would think he was in his early to
Speaker 1: mid fifties. And you both have met him and probably
Speaker 1: didn't realize how old he was. Yeah, my mom, I
Speaker 1: have memories of her getting carded. You don't have memories
Speaker 1: until you're you know, really like five six. She had
Speaker 1: me when she was thirty five. I get carded still,
Speaker 1: which is weird. I get carted all the time, you
Speaker 1: do know. I get carded very rarely get There are
Speaker 1: people who yeah, definitely just age. Well yes, well this guy,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so we're thirty years later the cops
Speaker 1: when they go ahead and they follow up on this tip,
Speaker 1: and then suddenly they start realizing some things like he
Speaker 1: had a Vauxhall Victor at the time that the girls
Speaker 1: were murdered, and the lo and behold it had it
Speaker 1: was blue and it had an off colored door. Huh.
Speaker 1: And he did some weird stuff like he took the
Speaker 1: door off and he buried it and he replaced it
Speaker 1: with another door. And then later on went and dug
Speaker 1: that door back up. His family's like, you're so weird,
Speaker 1: what are you doing. He gave some weird excuse about
Speaker 1: how he didn't want to be involved in the case,
Speaker 1: and like, really, to me, things that call suspicion to yourself.
Speaker 1: Yet nobody did anything at the time. That's kind of
Speaker 1: a kind of just a lot of work when he
Speaker 1: could have just taken it somewhere and got to body
Speaker 1: shop and gotten it repainted. Yeah. Although the other on
Speaker 1: the other hand, if there's this search happening for a
Speaker 1: car and you're responsible auto shop, somebody brings a car
Speaker 1: that matches that description with a weird description, that's the problem.
Speaker 1: Is the cops were golden going with the hold in
Speaker 1: and he had the Vauxhall, so he totally could have
Speaker 1: done something simple enough for all he knew. They were
Speaker 1: just yeah, he was being smart. I don't know he was.
Speaker 1: He wasn't being very smart at all. I would have
Speaker 1: pushed it into the river and reported for insurance. So
Speaker 1: here's some of the other things that kind of became
Speaker 1: damning evidence against him is that he um for thirty years. God,
Speaker 1: I think it was like thirty years or something like that.
Speaker 1: He was a carpenter and he worked for the Queensland
Speaker 1: Department of Public Works. Takes care of public buildings, is
Speaker 1: kind of the simple way to think of that. And
Speaker 1: one of the things he had to do was he
Speaker 1: had been working at the time the girls disappeared at
Speaker 1: their school, so he would have seen them painting the school. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm making a TV reference. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was totally gonna say, wait a minute, you're making
Speaker 1: a TV show, Joe. I am um ten points to Raven.
Speaker 1: We have to do the clothing. That's Raven clothe, Okay,
Speaker 1: Harry Potter jokes point being he uh. He gets he
Speaker 1: gets hauled into court, they press charges. The first trial
Speaker 1: ends in a hung jury. They try to try him again.
Speaker 1: His lawyer then files emotion and it eventually goes through
Speaker 1: saying he's not fit to stand trial because he was
Speaker 1: starting to suffer from dementia and he had Alzheimer's and
Speaker 1: he died in two thousand and two. And it's fairly
Speaker 1: that they're fairly certain that he is responsible for the
Speaker 1: murder of these two young girls, but they can't say
Speaker 1: for sure because there's things like there's no records of
Speaker 1: where he worked at certain times, so some of the
Speaker 1: stuff is spotty. Like they know he was at the
Speaker 1: school where the these two girls were at s were murdered,
Speaker 1: but like for the Beaumont children, they don't have records
Speaker 1: because there is um There was a giant flood and
Speaker 1: it wiped out a bunch of records because you know,
Speaker 1: back in the day when everything's done in paper, waterlogged
Speaker 1: records are useless. But they think that he might be
Speaker 1: involved in this because if he was working for the
Speaker 1: Department of Public Works, he could be connected to the
Speaker 1: Beaumont case because that means that he would have gone
Speaker 1: where they told him to go. It's a long way
Speaker 1: away from where he lived. It's d kilometers, it's fifteen
Speaker 1: hundred miles. I think if I actually did the math on,
Speaker 1: people do have to travel that far from work, especially
Speaker 1: in Australia where it's everything's kind of far. Everything is
Speaker 1: very far away from a lot of the things that
Speaker 1: are major on the coast, and the coastline is long,
Speaker 1: so it's going to be a big area. But I
Speaker 1: get that. Yeah, so I'm not sure. I think this
Speaker 1: guy is kind of weak. Well, no, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's there's some other things. Well, I don't know that
Speaker 1: he's I don't know that he's necessarily we I mean,
Speaker 1: there's the whole he looked young earth than he actually was.
Speaker 1: Bit there's working for the Public Works Department. Um, the
Speaker 1: records being destroyed in the it's the Brisbane flood seventy
Speaker 1: four is the one that did it. But there's that,
Speaker 1: Or there's the fact that he worked for the Public
Speaker 1: Works Department, so theoretically he probably had access to the
Speaker 1: records room to go file his reports and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he could have destroyed the records of what he did
Speaker 1: if it was just a regular working stiff. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how much time he would have had to spend
Speaker 1: loafing on the beach, you know, you know, getting into
Speaker 1: young children, that is That is kind of the odd
Speaker 1: One of the things that's that's hard for me with
Speaker 1: this is that, Yeah, he would have had to have
Speaker 1: been on the beach and been there for an extended
Speaker 1: amount of time, as I said before, because the kids
Speaker 1: didn't go to the beach every day, so he would
Speaker 1: just be prowling around. But if if he were working
Speaker 1: at their school, Jane or Arness, Yeah, if he were
Speaker 1: working at Jane's school, for instance, and had developed a
Speaker 1: relationship with her and then bumped into her at the beach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they think the sense that I had of those
Speaker 1: children was that Jane was the responsible. Well, she was responsible,
Speaker 1: but she was also the most shy of them. So
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, had she accepted someone in general,
Speaker 1: the other two would have followed her lead. You know,
Speaker 1: if she said no, it's okay, you guys, this is
Speaker 1: my friend, they would have been like, oh, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course that's okay. Jane says it's you know, okay, So
Speaker 1: it's okay. I don't I don't like Brown for this one.
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's a stretch for him to
Speaker 1: be that far from home, but I can see why
Speaker 1: people would would lump him in, especially when everybody kind
Speaker 1: of knew he really had a thing for kids. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, we were we were promised some more suspects.
Speaker 1: There are actually three more. I know they're a little weak.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, they do kind of progressively get weak, lower
Speaker 1: and lower on the possibility, and it's like I organized
Speaker 1: it that way or something something. The uh, well, the
Speaker 1: next two are really kind of weak because they were
Speaker 1: really way too young to have been this guy on
Speaker 1: the beach in his mid thirties, although again, you know
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily well yeah, also the guy in the
Speaker 1: beach might not have been involved at all. And here's
Speaker 1: the deal. You know, supposing you were that guy and
Speaker 1: you're living in Adelaide at the time, or you hang
Speaker 1: out on that beach and you knew the kids and
Speaker 1: you read about this in the paper, are you going
Speaker 1: to come forward and say, Hey, I I hung out
Speaker 1: with the kids a few times. But are you going
Speaker 1: to do that? I guess I would. I guess yeah.
Speaker 1: And maybe this is like the difference between like being
Speaker 1: a lady and being a dude. But like I guess
Speaker 1: I would because I would have nothing to fear front, right,
Speaker 1: really well, but I think he would say, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like here's my story. Do everything you can to like
Speaker 1: search my house, you know, see if I've ever been
Speaker 1: prescribed any you know, like any like just do everything
Speaker 1: that you can. Here's the difference. There's there's two two
Speaker 1: problems here. One you're a woman, and but two it's
Speaker 1: also nineteen six and it's easy to just fall off
Speaker 1: the radar and stay away because any you know, cases easily.
Speaker 1: And I will say at the time. I feel like,
Speaker 1: whether it was Australia or England or the United States
Speaker 1: or wherever, things like this become a witch hunt and
Speaker 1: as soon as you do something, everybody is putting you
Speaker 1: under the microscope. I guess for so for me, like
Speaker 1: he would have had to have left town, right because
Speaker 1: if this guy lived in that area and stayed in
Speaker 1: that area, the fact that, like so many different witnesses
Speaker 1: placed him with the Beaumont children. You go out one
Speaker 1: day to dinner and people are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's you. You're the one I saw. Police everybody, this
Speaker 1: is the one I saw. Like, that's that's what's going
Speaker 1: to happen in that case, right, either you come forward
Speaker 1: or you leave, that could happen. Well, no, I mean
Speaker 1: you could just Uh here's why why I probably would
Speaker 1: not come forward if it if it had been me,
Speaker 1: I would probably stop going to the beach, but I
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily leave town. Uh. And if if I eventually
Speaker 1: I did get busted, I just say, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, I never had any reason to think that
Speaker 1: it was me. I never had anything to do with this.
Speaker 1: And then except I mean, except for if somebody like
Speaker 1: a bunch of people say, no, we saw you with
Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, then you said, then you have to
Speaker 1: explain why you didn't come forward, and that makes you
Speaker 1: look even guiltier. And the circle that we can get
Speaker 1: but you can pretty easily. It is it is. There's
Speaker 1: there's good arguments on both sides. But the thing about
Speaker 1: it is is if you come forward and then you
Speaker 1: become a person of interest, then somebody at the police
Speaker 1: department leads it to the press, and then once it's
Speaker 1: out in the press and your name and your photograph
Speaker 1: are out there, your life is just your one over
Speaker 1: you I hear you. Yeah, yeah, it's again, it's like
Speaker 1: both arguments. Yeah, that's why I probably if it had
Speaker 1: been me, I probably wouldn't come forward. I just go
Speaker 1: on a really long vacation. But so or find a
Speaker 1: job in another town. But let's get back to our
Speaker 1: our next two suspects. Well, these guys actually could have
Speaker 1: been involved. I mean they they were not good people,
Speaker 1: and but they were really way too young to have
Speaker 1: been this thirty five to forty year old guy. But
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they weren't involved. They maybe could have
Speaker 1: been involved, because this this is not necessarily just one
Speaker 1: guy that did this and as we've talked about, like
Speaker 1: both of you know, both Steve and I had suspects
Speaker 1: that we're not mid thirties, but definitely matched the police sketches,
Speaker 1: you know, on either end. And I want to throw
Speaker 1: one more suspect. By the way, Jane, I think she
Speaker 1: objected the two years. Okay, so what's your first one?
Speaker 1: All right, let's go right to the real suspects here,
Speaker 1: James Ryan O'Neill. Uh Si. Again, this guy is not
Speaker 1: a wrong suspect, but we'll talk about it for a minute. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Uh he was born Lee Anthony bridge Art, and I
Speaker 1: think I'm pronouncing that correctly. I mean, it looks like
Speaker 1: he can pronounce it brid Gart, but I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: with bridge Art. But he was born in nineteen seven,
Speaker 1: so make him a bit young. But inten seventy one,
Speaker 1: he was charged with twelve crimes related to abductions and
Speaker 1: sexual assaults of four boys. So he skipped town and
Speaker 1: skipped bail. Yeah, really weird, and went to West. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's if somebody has abducted an assaulted four boys, why
Speaker 1: would you put them on on bail? Why would you
Speaker 1: look up? Yeah? I mean really well, because you can't.
Speaker 1: You don't know that they have, right, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess I would set Bill awfully high. But well, anyway,
Speaker 1: he skipped bail, went to Western Australia. He changed his
Speaker 1: name to James Ryan O'Neill. Uh, and was during his
Speaker 1: time in Western Australia that he actually told several people
Speaker 1: that he was the one who carried out the Billmont kidnapping.
Speaker 1: I guess people didn't take them all that seriously. This
Speaker 1: is you know, this is again not that long after.
Speaker 1: This is like, you know, five, six, seven years after,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was still a pretty huge deal. So
Speaker 1: it's kind of surprising that nobody ever talked to the
Speaker 1: police about this until far far later. But anyway, in
Speaker 1: uh February nine, he abducted and murdered a nine year
Speaker 1: old boy named Rickey Smith, and not too long after
Speaker 1: that he did the same thing to another nine year
Speaker 1: old named Bruce Wilson. And Bruce Wilson's body was found
Speaker 1: in May and James O'Neill fell out a suspicious for
Speaker 1: the killing, and Vestal was dragged downtown and interrogate he
Speaker 1: he fessed up. He took the police to Ricky Smith's body. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so he was kind of busted. He was convicted
Speaker 1: of the crime. He's a sociopath, he has uh he
Speaker 1: has sort of hinted that he might have been involved.
Speaker 1: He was interviewed for three years by a detective named
Speaker 1: Gordon Davy, who eventually came to believe that he was
Speaker 1: the guy who hadn't have the Beaumont children. But again,
Speaker 1: he was on eighteen years old when the kids disappeared,
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Again, but but again, the guy
Speaker 1: in the beach might not have been the kidnapper. I've
Speaker 1: been able to find any pictures of him, but I've
Speaker 1: also read that he doesn't look like the kidnappers description.
Speaker 1: But again, again, we don't know that the guy at
Speaker 1: the beach was actually a kidnapper, as the South Australian
Speaker 1: Police have questioned them and they don't think he's a
Speaker 1: good suspect and uh he uh. He apparently was involved
Speaker 1: in a lot of abductions of kids. There were there
Speaker 1: were a serious of other other ones between Ricky Smith
Speaker 1: and Bruce Wilson's Wilson were like another four or five
Speaker 1: who were abductive but they managed to escape. So his
Speaker 1: his m O was again to kidnap the kids one
Speaker 1: at a time. But he the one is he the
Speaker 1: one who, when asked, has confessed to every abduction that
Speaker 1: they've asked him about. Yeah, that was that was our
Speaker 1: next suspek. Yeah, he was the next one. Was the
Speaker 1: one where they were like, oh, you did this one right,
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I was in that area right
Speaker 1: this It was in that area, but I don't remember
Speaker 1: if I did it or not. Yeah, a true psychopathy. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Derek Percy, Derek Ernest Percy. Yeah, family is very famous
Speaker 1: Australian criminal um. He murdered a twelve year old girl
Speaker 1: named Evon Toy and he was found not guilty by
Speaker 1: reason of insanity, which that doesn't mean that he got
Speaker 1: to walk free. He's still locked up. He's said he's psychotic,
Speaker 1: maybe skechophrenic, that he had this legitimate psychiatric issue whereby
Speaker 1: he really honestly couldn't remember a lot of stuff that
Speaker 1: he'd done, because that's what he would always say. It's
Speaker 1: like you said, it's say, oh you know I was
Speaker 1: in Adelaide. I was, I was, I was right there
Speaker 1: in the immediate area, but I don't really remember killing
Speaker 1: anybody or conducting anybody. I could say that about every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember being there, I remember killing I remember being
Speaker 1: in Portland when Kirrain went missing. But I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know I was. I was here. I'm sorry. Yeah no,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I I don't think he was. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that he's crazy at all. I think he was
Speaker 1: just a sociopath. Luckily for us, he died in prison.
Speaker 1: But he was also much too young. He was also
Speaker 1: again too young, but again he could have been involved
Speaker 1: in some way or another. He placed himself at the
Speaker 1: sign at the crime scene on that day, but then
Speaker 1: said he couldn't recall if he did it or not.
Speaker 1: But here's the deal. It's like, like say, everybody they
Speaker 1: asked him about it, he would say, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: was right there. I actually don't remember actually kidnapping that
Speaker 1: particular kid and killing him. You know, he he said
Speaker 1: this stuff. I think he was just playing the corps.
Speaker 1: He was j Yeah, yeah, he was Percy, Derek Percy.
Speaker 1: Apparently they found maps in his possession of the scene
Speaker 1: of the Beaumont crime with the area circled in with
Speaker 1: a pen. But that doesn't necessarily mean much. I mean,
Speaker 1: he might have just it might have been. This is
Speaker 1: terrible to say, but it might have been a fan thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could have been. It could have been, or it
Speaker 1: could have been he just wanted to It could have
Speaker 1: been he wanted to have something that to just sort
Speaker 1: of implicate himself. But I mean nothing serious. Leting a
Speaker 1: map with the circle drawing out it is not going
Speaker 1: to get you the electric chair. But yeah, it'll drive
Speaker 1: the cops crazy, it'll drive the public crazy and the
Speaker 1: parents crazy. But yeah, it doesn't get them much of anywhere.
Speaker 1: But again, he was much too young according to what
Speaker 1: he was. He was way too young. Uh, it's not
Speaker 1: even a parent that you know. It's thought everybody believes
Speaker 1: at least that whoever did this would have had to
Speaker 1: have a car to get the kids out of there quickly.
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. Yeah, and it's not clear
Speaker 1: that he had a car. It's not even clear that
Speaker 1: he even had a driver's license at that age, and
Speaker 1: so so that kind of lets him out. Well he was,
Speaker 1: but it was a weird, weird person. I've heard this story.
Speaker 1: This is a little bit apocry full, but when he
Speaker 1: was a teenager, he was spotted by some other boys
Speaker 1: at a watering hole. He was dressed in girl's clothes
Speaker 1: and he was stabbing at a pair of girls panties
Speaker 1: and yelling Uh yeah, okay, yeah. Anyway, then he went
Speaker 1: down to the river's edge and defecated in the water,
Speaker 1: and then the boy all the boys, of course, ran
Speaker 1: back to school and told everybody about it, and uh
Speaker 1: and actually it didn't Nobody believed them. Everybody thought it
Speaker 1: was so strange that they were Everybody was sure that
Speaker 1: they were just making it up. You're making it up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I cut it out. He was. Actually, he had a
Speaker 1: reputation as for stealing women's underwear. Apparently the women's underwear
Speaker 1: tended to disappear everywhere he went and such a weird
Speaker 1: thing to do. I know, I just go buy some guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. It was also known to be kind of
Speaker 1: colder and emotionless. So obviously this is this guy is
Speaker 1: not a model citizen. Uh. He spent some time in
Speaker 1: the Navy and was still in the Navy when he
Speaker 1: was arrested for the murder of Yvon. Yeah. And one
Speaker 1: reason a lot of people rule him out also is
Speaker 1: that the Adelaide Oval case, that was the one where
Speaker 1: the two girls went missing at the football game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very big because, and this is one reason I
Speaker 1: don't totally buy this, but when that happened, he was
Speaker 1: in prison, and since everybody thinks that they were committed
Speaker 1: by the same person, that would rule him out. It's
Speaker 1: a suspect. Do you think that it was the same Someday?
Speaker 1: Probably we will, I don't. I don't think this totally
Speaker 1: rules him out because they could have been done by
Speaker 1: two different people. I don't. A lot of people are
Speaker 1: absolutely certain they were done by the same Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the things we glossed over is the fact
Speaker 1: that that area has had a almost prolific number of
Speaker 1: young people disappear in that kind of same area, not
Speaker 1: like recently, not, but there was a there was a
Speaker 1: lot of kids and young adults disappeared or were murdered.
Speaker 1: And uh we I don't think any of us wanted
Speaker 1: to touch on that in this show because it's like
Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge thing that aren't prepared to take on,
Speaker 1: but it is. It is probably I guess worth a
Speaker 1: mention that, like, there were some other things that happened
Speaker 1: around that time that the same person could or could
Speaker 1: not have been responsible for him. But yeah, lots of
Speaker 1: stuff going on anyway, So he just ruled out Derek Percy.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, he was he was weak from the start. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Last of all, this guy is a more recent nominee
Speaker 1: for a suspect who is Harry Phipps. He he was
Speaker 1: the former chairman and co founder of a company called Casteloy,
Speaker 1: and somebody is apparently writing a book about him, or
Speaker 1: maybe it's out by now. I think it's called The
Speaker 1: Satin Man, and there's really not It's it's a pretty
Speaker 1: tenuous case, so I'm not going to spend more than
Speaker 1: thirty seconds on this. Uh yeah, but apparently one of
Speaker 1: his sons came forward after Phipps died, well after he died,
Speaker 1: and said that Phips, Harry Phipps, was a child abuser
Speaker 1: and a cross dresser, which of course doesn't make him
Speaker 1: a This is the one that the book is being
Speaker 1: written about, right, It's the whole long book. It's called
Speaker 1: The Satin Man. Yeah, finding the Murderer of the Beaumont Children.
Speaker 1: And like, this guy was a horrible man, and here's
Speaker 1: all the dorm things he did to me, and that
Speaker 1: obviously makes him responsible for my dad was a jerk. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I'm pretty sure that's my understanding of the whole
Speaker 1: entire book. I haven't read it or anything, but my
Speaker 1: understanding of the book is like, here all the reasons
Speaker 1: that my dad was a jerk, and he must have
Speaker 1: of course been responsible. I know. Yeah, well, the the
Speaker 1: the evidence that I know. I have not read the book,
Speaker 1: I do, like I said, as far as I know,
Speaker 1: it's not even out yet. But this guy says this
Speaker 1: is Harry Phipps's son, says that on the day of
Speaker 1: the Bee kids disappeared, he saw three children in their backyard,
Speaker 1: which I'm not quite well wasn't And Harry Phipps also
Speaker 1: Dick kind of resembled the description of the guy at
Speaker 1: the beach. Yeah, well, but wasn't he connected to the
Speaker 1: property that they dug up? Yeah? I don't know, not
Speaker 1: that I know. I thought, I guess I had somewhere
Speaker 1: that he was connected to that property that the psychic
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, the kids are buried there. I thought
Speaker 1: that he was the owner or worked there or something.
Speaker 1: There was some connection between him and that property, and
Speaker 1: that's what made the case quote unquote stronger. I you know,
Speaker 1: I've never actually heard who the owner of that warehouse was.
Speaker 1: I've never heard. I don't know, so that was I
Speaker 1: guess that was the only thing that I would add
Speaker 1: to that. It was but a kid. But then again,
Speaker 1: if if, if Phipps was connected to that, but I'll
Speaker 1: guess what kids bodies weren't found there. Yeah, no, exactly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that that was one of the reasons I think
Speaker 1: that the family was like, well, he was kind of
Speaker 1: a jerk, and also he was connected vaguely to this area,
Speaker 1: so that strengthened their case a little bit. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think that again I don't remember, so please everybody
Speaker 1: forgive me if I've just said something that's percent wrong. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that the one reason I don't buy him
Speaker 1: the Phipps theory at all is that you just committed
Speaker 1: a major crime, which is kidnapping. You take the kids
Speaker 1: to your own house and let them out in the
Speaker 1: back of Hello, I don't I'll buy this at all.
Speaker 1: I totally don't buy Harry Phipps. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he was a cross dresser, maybe he was kind
Speaker 1: of mean to his kids, but you know, that's about it,
Speaker 1: and you know, who knows, maybe even that's not true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So and that's it for the suspects. Well yeah, and
Speaker 1: then there's the whole like amorphous like that. It could
Speaker 1: be in random whoever. Yeah, I don't, it's not on
Speaker 1: our list. Yeah, I don't think anyway, even our strongest
Speaker 1: suspect to his one item is Frankly, I got to say,
Speaker 1: the evidence is pretty thin. Yeah, it's not good. It's
Speaker 1: not great, but he is. I I think he's the
Speaker 1: strongest of the suspect. Oh, yes, he is, but it's
Speaker 1: still now not great. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, people lock
Speaker 1: your kids up, put tracking devices on them, chip them,
Speaker 1: chip your kids. What's that? What's that song? Lock your
Speaker 1: kids to hide your wives? No, it's hide your kids,
Speaker 1: hied your wife's That's that's I used to live by evidently. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't have any kids. If if
Speaker 1: I have any, whenever I send them out of the house,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be trapped them. Yeah, because you're definitely
Speaker 1: and like prime kid having time. Yeah yeah, alright, kids
Speaker 1: wear your glass and nailing crusted jackets. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: you duct tape clean war minds to the front of
Speaker 1: the back of face. Yeah. Well, so, as we said,
Speaker 1: there is a one million dollar reward for anybody who
Speaker 1: has information about this. So, if you have information about this,
Speaker 1: the fact that I just said it's a million dollars,
Speaker 1: and tell us your theory, we'll cut you in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll cut you in. We'll give you a one percent
Speaker 1: sounds fair in Australia, Australia. If you want us to
Speaker 1: solve the mystery for you, your economy being Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do that. Just bump it up to
Speaker 1: one point four million, which is the equivalent of one
Speaker 1: billion in American and then we'll tell you. We'll tell
Speaker 1: you who did it, where the bodies are? Yeah, but
Speaker 1: do you have anything else? Do you have anything else? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I doubt this case will ever be solved. I agree,
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, well until they raised the money, of course.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then we'll solve it. UM. So if
Speaker 1: you want to see some of the links that we
Speaker 1: used to research this show, UM, or you want to
Speaker 1: leave a comment, UM, you can also listen and download
Speaker 1: episodes on our website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast
Speaker 1: dot com. Um. You are probably listening to us on iTunes.
Speaker 1: If you are, leave as a comment and rating just
Speaker 1: it helps people find us UM continually moving up the ranking,
Speaker 1: moving up the rankings. Yeah. In fact, um, I think
Speaker 1: we put on Twitter. I don't know if we put
Speaker 1: like everywhere. I'm just gonna like, I'm so proud of this.
Speaker 1: We have officially are like ninety day downloads is over million.
Speaker 1: Keep listening to us, you millions of people just getting
Speaker 1: it's like two thousand who just keep downloading over and
Speaker 1: yeah actually you can yeah, um, you can stream us
Speaker 1: almost anywhere. I think we're on like everything at this point. Um,
Speaker 1: find us on all of your social media server sites things.
Speaker 1: We're on Facebook. We've got the group and the page,
Speaker 1: so find his friend us like us. We're on Twitter.
Speaker 1: We're thinking Sideways Podcast. No, we're just thinking sideways. Um,
Speaker 1: we are. We have a subreddit. I was wrong last week.
Speaker 1: I said it was Thinking Sideways Pod. It's not just
Speaker 1: search Thinking Sideways and you'll find us. Do we have
Speaker 1: an email account? We also have an email account. I
Speaker 1: know you can't remember because you don't get it to
Speaker 1: your phone, but Steve and I do. When we've gotten
Speaker 1: five emails since we started recording this episode. That email
Speaker 1: address is Thinking Sideway Podcast at gmail dot com. Send
Speaker 1: us your suggestions. We can't promise we'll ever get to them.
Speaker 1: Uhn suggestions, but send us your feedback everything, whatever you
Speaker 1: want to do. If you just want to talk to us,
Speaker 1: If you just want to misspell my name, I don't care.
Speaker 1: Her name is d E V I I A. There's
Speaker 1: like some people have been like d A V A
Speaker 1: and I don't. Yeah, it's pretty much. It's just like that.
Speaker 1: There's like five t s in it. It's fine. Um,
Speaker 1: but send us an email. We love. We will always
Speaker 1: get back to you. We love to talk to you people, um,
Speaker 1: even though it may take us a couple of days.
Speaker 1: And last but not least, if you want to make
Speaker 1: a sustaining contribution to the show, you can do so
Speaker 1: on patreon dot com. It's patreon dot com slash thinking sideways. Um,
Speaker 1: and there's more information there for all of that stuff.
Speaker 1: That all having been said four hours later, Um, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get out of here. Happy October everyone. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see you in November. Yeah. So you guys are
Speaker 1: gonna meet your candy right? What candy Halloween? I'm sugar free? Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually I will because I'm sure mine's full of razor bloods.
Speaker 1: You guys suck for life