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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a series

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Speaker 1: of dots that may or may not contain a secret code.

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Speaker 1: Instead is supported by the generous contributions of people like you,

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Speaker 1: our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash Thinking

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Speaker 1: Sideways to learn more Thinking Sideways. I don't you never

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Speaker 1: know stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.

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Speaker 1: Hey guys, you made it. It's the end of October.

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Speaker 1: Last episode, the last episode. If you don't know, this

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Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin. That's and that

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Speaker 1: is Steve. Yes, that's clean. Actually we did at that time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good. I won't have to edit that at all,

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Speaker 1: except for all of the five booths that we did

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Speaker 1: before then. Yeah yeah, yeah no. So as you probably

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Speaker 1: we know, but maybe not. This month of October, we've

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Speaker 1: been doing Thinking Sideways is Most Wanted. So we came

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Speaker 1: up with a list of fifteen, the fifteen most requested mysteries,

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Speaker 1: and we did an episode on the five the top

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Speaker 1: five voted, so they weren't necessarily the top five most

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Speaker 1: requested that we've ever had. They were a list of

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Speaker 1: the most requested and then there was a vote. So sorry,

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Speaker 1: if we missed the most requot, we didn't. We got,

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Speaker 1: but there are some that are like that are pretty

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Speaker 1: frequently requested that I guess we'll attempt to tackle on

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Speaker 1: the next next year. Yeah, if we're not, if we're

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Speaker 1: not covering the mystery that you really really are dying

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Speaker 1: to see us cover, we'll send us money. It's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do accept bribes. Yeah. So this is our uh no, not,

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Speaker 1: there's no more like weird first runner up, the second runners. No,

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Speaker 1: this is our winner, our winner, and uh the we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of the Beaumont children. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a big one. So you may or may not

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Speaker 1: have listened to our group shows before. You might be

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Speaker 1: able to tell this is going to be a long episode.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't do it by myself. We all three

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Speaker 1: broke it up. So we're going to do our standard

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Speaker 1: show that we broke up style, and we're just going

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Speaker 1: to each tackle different parts of it. I got the

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Speaker 1: lambst part he did because he said he didn't care. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know. So I'm gonna start by giving a quick

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Speaker 1: overview of the story. You might want to give him

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Speaker 1: the warning because this is a story about childbuction. You

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Speaker 1: that's you know, an uncomfortable subject for Yeah, not only

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Speaker 1: is it child abduction, but a lot of the um

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Speaker 1: suspects I guess are pretty bad. People are pretty and

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk not in graphic detail, but

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Speaker 1: in some big detail about what they did and why

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Speaker 1: it pertains to this. So if you're squeamish, it's not you,

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Speaker 1: it's not your bag. Just get this one. Although presumably

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Speaker 1: you're not going to be so upset about this morning.

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Speaker 1: If you're super excited about us covering with mystery, hopefully

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Speaker 1: there won't be any cross over there. Yeah, I don't,

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Speaker 1: I don't. I think this is pretty Pg. Thirteen. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be too concerned. It's not the worst. But just

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Speaker 1: for all some of our listeners who need to know

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Speaker 1: things like that, I think our listeners are already. They're

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Speaker 1: not that kind of people anyway. They love the gore,

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Speaker 1: not all of them. Okay, you guys ready. On January

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, which was Australia Day of that year,

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Speaker 1: three children disappeared. Guess what their name was? Their last

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Speaker 1: names for beaumont Um. They were Jane who was nine,

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Speaker 1: Arna who was seven, and Grant who was four. They

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Speaker 1: were on a beach that was called glenn Elg, which

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Speaker 1: is the palindrome. You guys, I know that's really cool.

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Speaker 1: You know. You pointed that out and I had not

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Speaker 1: enough step before. It's palindrome. My Australian friend who helped

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Speaker 1: me with some of these pronunciations. Uh, the first thing

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Speaker 1: he said, I said, how would you say this word?

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Speaker 1: He said, it's a palindrome and I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but how do you say it? So apparently that's the thing. Um. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: it was near It was near Adelaide, South Australia. South

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Speaker 1: Australia is the state, I believe, right, I think so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is also near Somerton, which you may or may

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Speaker 1: not remember. This is why you are so excited about

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Speaker 1: this particular case, just because it ties into your favorite one,

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Speaker 1: my favorite one, yeah, which is um, that family actually

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Speaker 1: lived in Somerton, um, which is where the whole Tam

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Speaker 1: and Shrewd thing, Tom and Shrewd thing. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: a little for me to triangle. Yeah, it happened in

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Speaker 1: nine and it's actually, as it turns out, this area

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Speaker 1: is pretty notorious for disappearance and murders. So um, maybe

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Speaker 1: someday we'll cover some other ones, but now we've covered two.

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Speaker 1: Well certainly, I mean some of the suspects in this

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Speaker 1: case had been suspects and many many disappearances of children.

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Speaker 1: It's like, it's kind of shocking how many people were

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Speaker 1: out there doing this kind of stuff in South Australia.

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Speaker 1: It's weird. It's you'd think it was like a place

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Speaker 1: that people sent the worst people that they hadn't even

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Speaker 1: going to make that all right. So their parents were

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Speaker 1: Jim and Nancy Beaumont, and they often allowed the three children, Jane,

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Speaker 1: Arena and Grant to ride the bus to the beach.

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Speaker 1: It was like a five minute bus ride from their

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Speaker 1: home to the beach um, and so they were often

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Speaker 1: allowed to do that. And on this day they were excited.

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Speaker 1: It was Australia Day, which I think is kind of

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Speaker 1: like fourth of July here. I believe that. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: I think it's Independence Day or something. Ignorance sorry everyone, anyways,

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Speaker 1: it was a day of celebration, and so the three

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Speaker 1: children said they wanted to go to the beach and

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Speaker 1: their parents said sure, yeah, no problem, said by lunch. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They left home just after ten am. I believe it

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Speaker 1: was ten. Ten was when the bus left, and they

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Speaker 1: arrived at the beach predictably at about ten fifteen, which

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Speaker 1: is confirmed by the bus driver and also um a

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Speaker 1: few passengers of the bus. They said, yeah, the kids

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Speaker 1: got off around eleven. The children paused to play in

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Speaker 1: a sprinkler that was on the lawn of Collie Reserve,

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Speaker 1: which is like a public park that's just adjacent to

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Speaker 1: the beach. It's like big One. I looked at pictures.

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Speaker 1: It looks really pretty. Around this time, a witness also

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Speaker 1: noticed that there was a man playing with the children.

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Speaker 1: He was wearing blue swim trunks, and a school friend

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Speaker 1: of Jane's said that she saw the kids there too

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Speaker 1: at about eleven, but that she didn't notice the man

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Speaker 1: playing with them, and so maybe the man was just

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Speaker 1: playing in the sprinklers but not with them. Yeah. Maybe.

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Speaker 1: The witnesses description of the whole encounter with the man

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Speaker 1: was that he was laying on the grass initially like tanning,

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Speaker 1: and then got up and started playing with the kids.

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Speaker 1: But forty five minutes later the children bought some pastries

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Speaker 1: and a pie from one Cel's cake shop. Uh. They

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Speaker 1: paid with a one pound note and pause for all

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Speaker 1: of our Australian listeners. You might be saying, but in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six we had the dollar. Not so, not

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Speaker 1: until May. I did my research on this one. It

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Speaker 1: was still the pound until May of nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: So they paid with a one pound note and um.

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Speaker 1: Later Nancy told authorities that she had given Jane eight

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Speaker 1: shillings and sixpence in coins, which was to cover the

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Speaker 1: bus fare, and then like small little snacks, get yourself

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Speaker 1: something a munch, Yeah, just little little snacky things. So

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Speaker 1: they so it's unclear where they got the one pound

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Speaker 1: note from. Uh. The owner of the shop also mentioned

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Speaker 1: that she did know the children and they they had

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Speaker 1: purchased a meat pie, which they had never purchased before. Um,

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Speaker 1: though they'd come into the shop many times. Yeah you're

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Speaker 1: a kid, You got some cash and you go into

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Speaker 1: a pastry shop. Yeah yeah, or cane croissants or you

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Speaker 1: know whatever. Not it's not going to be a hearty

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Speaker 1: meat pie. So she thought that was a little odd,

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Speaker 1: but she you know, didn't question them or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: But she did recall that as being odd when she

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Speaker 1: was interviewed later around noon. A number of witnesses were

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Speaker 1: all sitting on a bench when they were approached by

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Speaker 1: a man who matches the description of the man in

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Speaker 1: the blue Simms swim trunks, and he said he was

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Speaker 1: missing some money and wondered if they had seen anybody

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Speaker 1: touching his clothing. No, no, I know where. Yeah they

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Speaker 1: might have stole it, right, Yeah, they don't. They didn't

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Speaker 1: seem like that kind of a group of kids. Um.

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Speaker 1: The group, who was comprised of a woman, an older couple,

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Speaker 1: and the older couple's ten year old granddaughter, said sorry,

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Speaker 1: we didn't see um anybody touching her clothes, and so

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Speaker 1: the man walked back to his clothes, where three children

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Speaker 1: were waiting for him. The witnesses said they were quote

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Speaker 1: fairly certain that at least two of the children were

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Speaker 1: Jane and Grant, and were absolutely positive that the third

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Speaker 1: child was Arena. And the man then helped the three

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Speaker 1: children dress, which they the witnesses said they thought was

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Speaker 1: odd because at least two of them looked like they

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Speaker 1: were definitely old enough to dress themselves at nine and

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Speaker 1: seven at nine, that's a little weird, But he apparently helped.

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Speaker 1: He took the time to help them all dress. It

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Speaker 1: took them like fifteen minutes to get all dressed, but

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Speaker 1: he apparently helped them all dress and then around um,

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Speaker 1: twelve fifteen. As I said, it took it took that

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Speaker 1: long too. I haven't seen anything that said, I guess

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Speaker 1: so it was about noon when he approached them, So

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Speaker 1: the conversation took maybe a minute or two, and then

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Speaker 1: he walked back to the children and immediately helped them

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Speaker 1: start dressing. And then the witnesses said they departed around

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Speaker 1: twelve fifteen, so it did take them a while. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it was he was not helping them get dressed, maybe

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Speaker 1: he was trying to undress them and they were kept

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Speaker 1: they kept dressing themselves, he kept undressing. No, I think

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Speaker 1: it was pretty clear he Actually I was. I was

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Speaker 1: wondering about it, as I had never thought about this.

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Speaker 1: But if the children buy something and they eat something

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Speaker 1: and somebody laces it on them, that would be why

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Speaker 1: you would have to help a kid get dressed, if

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Speaker 1: you they were a little drunk. That's good. I hadn't actually, no,

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Speaker 1: I just yeah about that now. Yeah, it's just this

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Speaker 1: whole scenario. It's just it's just a little hard to

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Speaker 1: picture from today's modern stand put. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think guys. I mean, obviously you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: having anything to do with the kids that you don't

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Speaker 1: know he'll go anywhere near them. Absolutely, that's worth kind

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Speaker 1: of a more paranoid society today than we used to be.

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Speaker 1: Well in this case, actually was the imptis for a

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Speaker 1: lot of that. It turns out there was the catalyst

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Speaker 1: for a lot of families in Australia, particularly to stop

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Speaker 1: allowing their children the kind of freedom that the Beaumont

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Speaker 1: children were afforded. Yeah, between because this happened between the

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Speaker 1: Purvs and the Dingoes, you know, I mean Australia wanting

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Speaker 1: to get your kids. Yeah, yeah, it absolutely is. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that's the thing about this these kids is that

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Speaker 1: you bring up a great point, Joe is everybody's probably

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Speaker 1: freaking out going, oh my god, their parents let them

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Speaker 1: go on their own. But it was he was a

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Speaker 1: very different world. And I mean I grew up in

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Speaker 1: in the States, you know, and and still when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, my parents still said where are you

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Speaker 1: going when you're gonna be back? You know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be back by this time, and don't ride your bike

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Speaker 1: in the street. Yeah, And then I just took off

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Speaker 1: and did what I wanted. Yeah, and it's exact same

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Speaker 1: thing these kids were doing. Yeah, I know, he would

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Speaker 1: just take off and go all over the place. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting actually to think about the

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Speaker 1: way that we're reacting to this story versus like the

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Speaker 1: Madeline McCann case for instance, right where I know we

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Speaker 1: were all like, what were those parents thinking? That's absurd,

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Speaker 1: But it was genuinely the society that was exactly how

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Speaker 1: everybody was treating their children. Yeah. I think it's that

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Speaker 1: And there's an age difference thing here between this and

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Speaker 1: the Meccans. Yeah, I'm not trying to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was genuinely at a different time. And regarding the

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Speaker 1: maccan parents, you know, they should have locked their room.

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Speaker 1: But other than at you know, that wasn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: too egregious on their part because we actually got a

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Speaker 1: little blowback and when that episode there and some people

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Speaker 1: were like upset with us because I thought we were

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Speaker 1: too hard on the parents. Yeah. So Nancy, as we've

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Speaker 1: just discussed, it was, you know, a different time. Nancy Beaumont,

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Speaker 1: the mom, she wasn't too worried when the kids didn't

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Speaker 1: come home at on the noon bus. She kind of

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Speaker 1: just figured that maybe they had decided to walk home

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Speaker 1: from the beach with they which they had done before,

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Speaker 1: and would have taken them, you know, extra time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or maybe they missed the bus. It wasn't exactly what

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Speaker 1: we would call a frequent run bus. The next bus

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Speaker 1: was due back at two, so she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: she was she wasn't concerned. Really. She thought either they

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Speaker 1: would be waiting for her at home they would walk home,

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Speaker 1: or they'd be on the two o'clock bus. So she did.

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Speaker 1: She went home, and she was a little myth that

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Speaker 1: they weren't home waiting for her. I think she genuinely thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: they just walked home. And then she walked from home

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Speaker 1: to the bus stop for the two o'clock bus, expecting

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Speaker 1: them to get off that bus. They didn't. They didn't

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Speaker 1: get off any bus. She kind of thought, Okay, that's weird,

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Speaker 1: but I guess they could be on the next bus.

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Speaker 1: And the next bus came at three. Rationalizing is what

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Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, when denial, if your kids are your

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Speaker 1: kids are kidnapped. Yeah, So when they were not on

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Speaker 1: the three clock bus, she did start to freak out.

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Speaker 1: And there's this possible sighting of the kids at one

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Speaker 1: or two fifty five pm. I have a hard time too.

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Speaker 1: So these two, these two sightings are like the police

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Speaker 1: don't think they're credible, but we'll mention them anyway. So

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Speaker 1: it's possible that at one PM the children were seen

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Speaker 1: with the same man, but he had light brown hair,

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Speaker 1: not blonde hair. Men in the blue trunks. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: the report was that they were leaving the beach um

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Speaker 1: pretty much at that moment. It's also possible that the postman,

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Speaker 1: who was familiar with them, saw them work walking along

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Speaker 1: Jetty Road towards the beach. He said it would have

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Speaker 1: either been at the getting or end of his round,

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Speaker 1: which would have been at one or to fifty five pm.

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Speaker 1: And in some statements he actually said that he saw

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Speaker 1: them in the morning, but he recanted that. So you'll

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Speaker 1: see out on the internet all three versions of that

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Speaker 1: in all the different places. You'll see that the policeman,

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Speaker 1: deaf or the postman definitely saw them on their way

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Speaker 1: to the beach. Oh, he definitely saw them walking alone

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Speaker 1: at one. Oh, he definitely saw them walking alone at

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Speaker 1: Toft but he couldn't even remember. But he couldn't remember. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't remember any of that, so the police kind

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Speaker 1: of discounted that as well, understandably so I agree. So

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Speaker 1: I gu said Nancy by this point was pretty concerned, um,

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Speaker 1: but she she did go home and continue to wait

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Speaker 1: for them and tell Jim. Her husband got home, at

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Speaker 1: which point both of them I think it was about

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Speaker 1: five pm when he got home, and they decided to

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Speaker 1: go to the beach to look for the kids, I think,

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Speaker 1: just hoping that they had lost track of time or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Obviously, they didn't find anything, so they

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Speaker 1: officially reported the children missing at seven thirty pm that night,

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Speaker 1: and then Jim continued to look throughout the night for

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Speaker 1: the kids or any sign of the kids, and when

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Speaker 1: there was no sign of them, they were officially declared

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Speaker 1: missing the next morning. So the morning of January nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty six. The search that ensued was extensive and did

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Speaker 1: eventually become the biggest man hunt or search search in

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Speaker 1: the history of Australia. There are a few things to note,

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Speaker 1: not very many, but a few. The first thing of

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Speaker 1: note is that the children, but particularly Jane, were described

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Speaker 1: as shy. Apparently, Arena had at one point told her

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Speaker 1: mother that Jane had quote got a boyfriend down the

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Speaker 1: beach unquote, and Nancy, of course, you know, thinking that

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Speaker 1: seven year old arna Um referring to nine year old

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Speaker 1: Jane had just meant a playmate and ignored the comment.

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Speaker 1: But it did seem a little weird after the kids disappeared.

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Speaker 1: In hindsight, yeah, a lot of things that are very simple.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about this before though, Yeah. Um, so investigators

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Speaker 1: did theorize that the man in the blue swim trunks

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Speaker 1: that had been seen playing with the kids, um had

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Speaker 1: actually met them before, since they did go to the

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Speaker 1: beach fairly frequently, that he had worked to gain their trust. Um,

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Speaker 1: because it would it seemed out of character, I guess

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Speaker 1: for the kids to play with a stranger within you know,

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Speaker 1: such kind of ease. It lends me to think that

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of planning put into places. This

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Speaker 1: wasn't a crime of opportunity. Was snatch and grab, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly the right term used it. Somebody had to

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Speaker 1: spend three four separate occasions with these kids to build

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Speaker 1: up that relationship. If indeed the man in the blue

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Speaker 1: swim trunks was responsible, we don't know that. But also

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Speaker 1: if he if this guy had been regularly hanging with

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Speaker 1: the kids. Do you think they would have been a

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Speaker 1: lot more witnesses have noticed on previous occasions, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But also it's not exactly as though the police were saying, like,

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Speaker 1: anybody who ever saw these kids interacting with anybody, tell

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Speaker 1: us anything? You know, they were saying specifically on this

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Speaker 1: day these kids disappeared, did you see them? You're in

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Speaker 1: this area? It seems like, um, this speech is kind

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Speaker 1: of a touristy area, so it's not as though a

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Speaker 1: regulars and I don't know. It's also entirely possible that

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Speaker 1: the man in the blue shorts was playing with his

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Speaker 1: own three children. They were misidentified absolutely the children. UM,

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Speaker 1: they had things like towels, small playthings. Jane had a

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Speaker 1: copy of Little Women, which is not a small book

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Speaker 1: with her, and none of these items were ever found,

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Speaker 1: which lends itself to think that the kids weren't just

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Speaker 1: washed out to see those things would have probably washed

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Speaker 1: back up on the shore or um, so it wasn't

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Speaker 1: just a riptide. Jim appeared on national television on January

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Speaker 1: thirty one asking for any leads, and um hundreds of

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Speaker 1: tips flooded the hotlines and Apparently every single one of

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Speaker 1: them was followed up, and none of them really produced

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Speaker 1: any kind of substantial leads. A few months after the

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Speaker 1: kids disappeared, a woman reported that on the night of

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Speaker 1: the disappearance, she had seen a man and three children,

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Speaker 1: two girls and a boy, enter a house next to

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Speaker 1: hers that she thought was empty, and I think it

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Speaker 1: was like a vacation rental sort of situation, not like

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Speaker 1: an abandoned house sort of situation. She reported that she

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Speaker 1: saw the boy walking alone when he was chased and

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Speaker 1: quote roughly caught by the man. Why did you wait

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Speaker 1: too much? Yeah, I mean that's actually it just like

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Speaker 1: the Springfield three and lady who said that she saw

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Speaker 1: the girls in the vein months later. Months later, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly. The police weren't able to to substantiate

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Speaker 1: this story because of the distance of time between when

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Speaker 1: it happened and when the tip was given, so they

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Speaker 1: weren't able to go get any forensic evidence or anything

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Speaker 1: like that that would have potentially existed in this house. Fingerprints. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if if this happened right, if this woman was telling

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Speaker 1: the truth, there would have been for forensic evidence there

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Speaker 1: and they would have been able to collect it and

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Speaker 1: I would have probably yielded many more results in the

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Speaker 1: long run. But if it was I they must have

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Speaker 1: followed up with the owners of the house. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if it was a vacation rental then and they rented

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Speaker 1: it to somebody for a day or two, I presume

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Speaker 1: I The only thing that you can never find about

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Speaker 1: this is that it just there were no leads from it,

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Speaker 1: So I presume that it wasn't actually rented on that day.

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Speaker 1: This is always at most paph Yeah, but I did

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Speaker 1: want to include it because it is kind of interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like we said before, while this case did

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Speaker 1: drastically alter the way that parents behave with their children,

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Speaker 1: the allowances they gave them, the kind of freedom they

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Speaker 1: gave them, no one blames the family in this case,

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Speaker 1: which I think is fair. And if you know something,

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00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: there is still a one million dollar reward um for

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Speaker 1: any information leading to this case being solved, which is

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Speaker 1: still there's still a huge commitment to the solving of

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Speaker 1: this case. And that's that's why thinking sideways is not

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Speaker 1: going to solve it right at the moment, because actually

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Speaker 1: that's how we're going to fund the showy year old mystery,

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Speaker 1: and this whole thing. Yeah. Now, the thing about it

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00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 1: is is if you go and you look at all

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Speaker 1: the information on the internet, it's quite obvious who did

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Speaker 1: the killing, and it's quite obvious where the bodies are.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately the Australian dollar is really weak right now,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to wait until it's a couple of

377
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: years ago it was actually it is actually pretty strong,

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Speaker 1: and now it's like worth you know, it's just not

379
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Speaker 1: worth that much. So we're going to hold off on

380
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Speaker 1: solving sorry folks. Yeah, so do Actually we do have

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00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 1: really really big news we're really excited about, but we're

382
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: not sure if we're going to release it or not

383
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Speaker 1: on Australia. Get your acting then we can solve this case.

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Speaker 1: It's on you. This is like that picture of a

385
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Speaker 1: million likes, right, Like, if this picture just gets a

386
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Speaker 1: million likes, Bill Gates will he will anyway at the

387
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Speaker 1: end of the overview of this story, Steve, Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: more of course. Oh, we're we're in. I think this

389
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 1: is going to happen for a while. Is there's more

390
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: story to tell before we ever even get into the

391
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: theory section, because as with all high profile cases, stuff

392
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: just keeps happening. Yeah, and um, as a disclaimer, I

393
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Speaker 1: don't I don't know about you guys, but like I

394
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Speaker 1: did my research on my parts and then like the

395
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: other part kind of skimmed the cliff notes of the

396
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Speaker 1: other parts. So just so our listeners are prepared, they're

397
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of weight. What But apparently there

398
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: were some letters, some letters there were It's unclear the

399
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: exact date that the first letters arrived. It was either

400
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: thee or four February of nine. The Beaumonts received a

401
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: letter that was supposedly from their daughter Jane, and of

402
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: course Mr Paumont calls the cops. Smart, yeah, he calls.

403
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Speaker 1: The lead detective on the case was Stan Swayin Right, Yeah,

404
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: it was so Swain And I'm gonna he'll be referred

405
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 1: to a couple of times through here. They check it

406
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: out and the letter is evidently sent from a town

407
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Speaker 1: that is called Dandenong. That yep, it's gonna go with that, Victoria.

408
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Speaker 1: And it was evidently sent two or three days prior

409
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Speaker 1: so they said it was sent on the twenty one

410
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Speaker 1: to February based on its postmark. Those are pretty reliable.

411
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Speaker 1: Those are pretty reliable. It's it's the arrival date. That's

412
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: why I'm a little iffy on this because we don't

413
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Speaker 1: know exactly what day had arrived. What the letters are

414
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: weird because the handwriting isn't really Janes, like it's kind

415
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: of Jins but not you know what I mean. It's

416
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: like it's kid, right. Yeah, Well it's also hard at

417
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: that age, Like I can look back at my journals. Yes,

418
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: I kept journals from when I was nine until when

419
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: I was eleven, right, that on a daily basis. Yeah,

420
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: they went ahead and hoped, I'm going to say, I'm

421
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: gonna put it that way. They hoped that it was

422
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: actually her handwriting. And the letters said that the children

423
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: were good, We're okay, but that and that they would

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Speaker 1: be returned to their parents, and all their parents had

425
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: to do was follow a set of instructions, and that

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00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: those instructions were that they that one of the parents.

427
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: I believe it's it might have been expressly Mr Beaum

428
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: though I think it is positive, but we're going to

429
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: say it is um. And he had he had to

430
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: wear a completely right no, not a pink jumps suit,

431
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 1: not my uniform, no, No, Jim had to be in

432
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 1: front of the post office in that town at eight

433
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 1: fifty in the morning on the February, which was a Monday,

434
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: and he was gonna be wearing a he had to

435
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: wear a dark coat and white trousers. Of course, with

436
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: all these letters, it says if tell costs, the whole

437
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: thing's off, so you can't do anything. There is some

438
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: very right off the stop top peculiarities with letters, and

439
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: that is that Arna's name is continually spelled wrong. It's

440
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: supposed to be two ends and it only has one

441
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: end every time that it's used in the letter. But

442
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: what the heck, We're going to go ahead and follow up.

443
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: The parents leave for town on Sunday morning. They head out. Yeah,

444
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: they detectives. They took cops with them, of course, and

445
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: this whole thing was supposed to be done on the

446
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: on the download. It was going to be super hush.

447
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: Somehow that didn't happen. One of the cops was Detective Swain. Yes, yes,

448
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: Swain did go but yeah, they were going to do

449
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: it on the download, and that that somebody was a

450
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: jerk and leaked it in Vain. Well, there's a couple

451
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: of things that were wrong here. There's there's people who

452
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: were honestly suspicious, but it did get leaked to the

453
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: Adelaide Press somehow that this was going on, and so

454
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: why I don't I'm not going to accuse anybody of

455
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: taking bribes from the press, but I guess also, like

456
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: my other part of that though, is that like if this,

457
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: if the public commitment is to getting this thing solved

458
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: and like ensuring the well being of the children, I

459
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: think the commitment was that strong. Because we're not even

460
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: a month later, we're barely a month after. It just

461
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: still seems like any what editor worth its salt wouldn't

462
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I mean, it's not like it's the

463
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: UK Mail, Like, it's not you know, it's not that

464
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 1: kind of publication. So yeah, that's upsetting to me. It's

465
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: setting to me that they would have published something like that. Yeah,

466
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: but by the way, it wasn't just a month or so,

467
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: it was it was like two years. Thank you, I'm

468
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: an idiot. It's okay, it was a million years ago.

469
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: It was it was two years after the fact. So

470
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: I will agree then, Okay, you're right, But I also

471
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: think that if it's been two years and this is

472
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: a case that I feel like it's kind of like

473
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: Lord Luken, he gets trotted out and lipped up, gets

474
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: trotted out to sea. They send all these guys down there. Yeah,

475
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: I just it just feels like I am going to

476
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: blame the newspaper a little bit. I know a lot

477
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: of other stuff happened that went wrong, and that's fine,

478
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: but I am definitely going to place some pretty heavy

479
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: blame whether the letters were real or not. You, as

480
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: a newspaper shouldn't ever say, like, these people are going

481
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: to like potentially recover their children after two years of searching,

482
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: let's publish it before it happens. Now, they didn't publish it.

483
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: They just they just of the Balmas to dandon the town. Yeah,

484
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: the town. Yeah. Actually, it's like they're like the Australians

485
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: like the Brits, and so it's probably pronounced dong any who.

486
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: So obviously the Adelaide newspaper guys are there. At the

487
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: same time, there's a pub owner who sees Swayin wandering

488
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: around and is suspicious something, and the reason is that

489
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: somebody had been in that town breaking into safes and

490
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know who this guy is. I'm

491
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: calling the call. Wasn't Swain or was it, Mr Beaumont,

492
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: I can't remember. One of them was wearing like the

493
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: black trench coat and the hat and like kind of wandering.

494
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: I thought both of them were just like kind of

495
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: wandering around suspicious. We were being suspicially the Yeah, I

496
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: think Balt was loitering in front of the post office

497
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: like you're supposed to. And then if the detective was

498
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: just walking around the neighborhood like you know, being acting

499
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: like a pedestrian just walking through, well, but I I

500
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: really to get the impression that you're you're early on

501
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: in the timeline because I think that if and I

502
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: might be wrong, but I got the impression that the

503
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: cops were called on Sunday when they were patrolling around

504
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: trying to figure things out. Because what happens is this

505
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: guy calls the cop. The cop somehow figures out that

506
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: Swayne is a police officer in Adelaide, and what does

507
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: he and I don't know how he does it. I'm

508
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: not sure who he calls. But then what does he do?

509
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: He goes ahead and calls the local press and tells

510
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: them what's going on. So at A fifty the next morning,

511
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: because Mr Beaumont is in front of the post office.

512
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: He's doing what he's supposed to. But there's all of

513
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: these I'm using air quotes here, random wandering people. I'm

514
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: just minding my own business. Wasn't like I'm sure. Actually,

515
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: let's just keep going because this is my favorite. It's

516
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: about to come of phone calls. Yes, so so of

517
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: course he's standing outside. Somebody calls he's out and he's

518
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: outside the post office. Somebody calls the post office. It's

519
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: a male voice with a Australian accent. He talks to

520
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: this postal woman worker. It's a woman. She goes and says,

521
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: I need you to take a message outside. She takes

522
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: a message outside to Mr Beaumont saying that they're delayed

523
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: and they they're on their way. Okay, everything seems fine

524
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: so far. Not too long after that and I there's

525
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: a telegraph comes through somehow. The message is conveyed again

526
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: to Mr Beaumont that they're on their way, and then

527
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: after that another message is brought to him saying that

528
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: Grant is sick and so they can't be there till

529
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: after lunch. And of course you know Mr he's hanging out,

530
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: he's gonna wait and they're his kids. He's of course

531
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 1: they're his kids. And he finally he gets there at

532
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: eight fifty in the morning, he gives up three o'clock.

533
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: I think he kind of figured out, yeah, he's had enough,

534
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: and so obviously he didn't get his kids. What I

535
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: don't really get about this is didn't the police. It's

536
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: it's easy to find out what telegraph office the telegrams

537
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: originated in. Don't ask me, brother, I I don't know

538
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: why that didn't happen and did that well, and and

539
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: there's there's some follow up, but it doesn't seem like

540
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: at that time, I don't know why, you know, I

541
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: kind of feel it feels a bit like there there

542
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: was going on, you know, that suddenly it was just

543
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: like nobody knew what to do anymore, nobody knew how

544
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: to do their job anymore. Yeah, it was like, well,

545
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: we don't want to blow our cover, so we're not

546
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: going to go, you know, as soon as the telegram

547
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: got we're not going to follow the telegram guy both

548
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: back in because obviously he's being watched so or potentially

549
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: you know, and by that point, I don't think you

550
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: keep a necessarily great record of like this person at

551
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: exactly this time said this telegraph saying this, but you

552
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: can talk to the people who work in the office.

553
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I know you right down text

554
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: they send the text, so somebody's going to interact with you.

555
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, of course, I just think that, like if

556
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: you follow up a couple of days later, especially if

557
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: you happened to send it from a really populoust area,

558
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: like well, you know, here's here's the thing too. And

559
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: of course, well I don't want to I don't want

560
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: to give away the ending, but more than one telegram

561
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: was sent, So after the first telegram, if the cops

562
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: had just you know, got in the telegraph telegraph office

563
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: that received the telegraph the telegram and then found out

564
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: from them where it originated. Right, But that's what I'm saying.

565
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: I thought, like, I think they still thought their cover

566
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 1: was like they were still I think they thought they

567
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: were still being really sneaky, and they were like, but

568
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: if I follow this guy into his office, I'm not

569
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: being sneaky anymore, you know what I mean, Like they

570
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: were they still thought they had it versus like, you know,

571
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: a couple of days later, they realized like a cover

572
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: was super blown. Immediately we were like dummies. Okay, it's

573
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: okay to go question this person. Yeah, if if that

574
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: had the telegrams, if the letters and everything had been

575
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: for real, then that that would that really, in my mind,

576
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: represents a huge lost opportunity. Absolutely, No, I agree with you.

577
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: I think that one of the biggest problems in this

578
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: entire case, as with so many cases we cover, is

579
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: the fact that it was just totally bungled by the

580
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: police a little bit. But Steve has more things to say.

581
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm just staring at you too, watching your blabern Okay,

582
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: so we've talked about the fact that several telegrams come through.

583
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: One of them says they're going to be late. The

584
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: other one tells Mr Beaumont to go wait across. This

585
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: is my favorite part. I just like that is seriously

586
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: my favorite part of this entire story, because I just

587
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: imagine it was like, Okay, you've got the image. You

588
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: have a bunch of people in like n C. I

589
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: s right there doing a steak out or the wire

590
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: they're doing a stake out, and it's like, no, I'm

591
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: just a homeless person. I'm asking for money. Oh I'm

592
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: a person giving you you know, it's like all staged.

593
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: Yeah right, but the moves right, So like Mr Baman

594
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: gets the thing and he's like, okay, I'll grow go

595
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: across the street. And he goes across the street and

596
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: like two seconds later, everybody else is around him again too,

597
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: with the same exact tableau just on the other side.

598
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: That's that mental image is one of my favorite mental

599
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Mr Bamant stays in that town for

600
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: a total he he waits outside the post office for

601
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: a total of three days, hoping that something's going to happen,

602
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: and it doesn't, but more letters are sent to the

603
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: family's home. There are three letters that are sent in

604
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: two envelopes, and one of them was postmarked from the

605
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: twenty ninth of February from that same city town, same

606
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: same town, and would have been on the same The

607
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: other one was from the same day, but it arrived

608
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: the same day. It was posted on the same day.

609
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: Is the way that it's written. I'm assuming that it was.

610
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 1: That means that the post office handled it and stamped

611
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: it that day, but it's not. It's never been said

612
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: where it came from. I would presume that it was

613
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: the same town, but maybe whoever was sending him went

614
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: to the next town and it went through their post system.

615
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: I'm I can't clarify that. But the letters they show

616
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: up and again there's a letter from Jane and in

617
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: that letter, um, well there's two letters. Yeah, there's the

618
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: letter from Jane and it's it's signed. It's still in

619
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: that weird handwriting that's not quite Jane's handwriting, but it's

620
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: still there. And then there is there's what's called the

621
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: disguised handwriting, which I think means I'm writing with my

622
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: left hand so you can't tell who I am. Kind

623
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: of disguised handwriting. It's really terrible. I'm guessing from but

624
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: it's it's signed the man and it says that because

625
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: the Beaumont didn't play ball, the kids aren't going to

626
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: be returned. Um. And it's it's really it's it's just

627
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of a brutal thing. And the whole thing

628
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: is brutal to me because it turns out, as I

629
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: think everybody's figured out at this point, the whole thing

630
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: was a hoax because in that waste they looked at

631
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: the letters again, but they didn't get much out of him.

632
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: And then ten years ten eleven years later they had

633
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 1: better ways to to fingerprint things, and they were able

634
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: to pull prints off of them, and they found the

635
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: guy who wrote the letter, and he was he was

636
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: a kid when he did it. He was seventeen year

637
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: old kid who thought it was funny and he did this.

638
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: But the whole time after he felt, you know, as

639
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: he matured, he was really regretful of the whole thing

640
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: and realized what a jackass movement was. But so the

641
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: letters are weird and they're alluded to, but the whole

642
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 1: thing turns out to be for not Yeah, yeah, too bad,

643
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: all right, So the time goes by. This is actually

644
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: this what I'm gonna talk about now, happened before the

645
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: letters arrived. This is later in the year of nineteen six.

646
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: This was obviously a huge deal and it got worldwide publicity, publicity,

647
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: and so a Dutch paras psychologist or psychic psychic who

648
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: was named offered his services. He was actually sometimes consulted

649
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: by Dutch police in murder and missing person cases. And

650
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: he was the girl with the dragon tattoo. Yeah, he

651
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: had crazy hair. There's a picture requisite crazy hair. Do

652
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: you see this picture? It wasn't as crazy as I

653
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: thought it was going to be. But it was still

654
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy. Yeah, it was. It

655
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: wasn't as crazy as I thought it was going to

656
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: because it was missing the top part. Yeah. But man, anyway, Yeah,

657
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: he's good. There is a bull joke. Yeah, there is

658
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: a Wikipedia page this guy. You can look at the

659
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: picture yourself. Is his name is? Is? Actually um, it's

660
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: spelled like Gerard Cross Croisset. But yeah, so Gerard Croissets

661
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: and so no, no, they should have to figure out

662
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: how to spell it. They should have to figure out

663
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: how to pronounce it. What's wrong with you? If they

664
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: insist we pronounced things correctly, they should figure out how

665
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: to spell things from our pronunciation. That's right. Screwed, Yeah, ruined? Okay,

666
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: so what so? Did he was involved in this case

667
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: and he didn't involved his career by the way, it

668
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: was kind of a mixed bag. He actually did occasionally

669
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: succeed in giving police clues that helped to solve the

670
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: occasional murder, missing person or missing bodies. Do you think

671
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: it's like we could give helpful clues to people? I

672
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: have two feelings, one is living, the other is dead.

673
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: Who is Tom? Oh? You mean Tim? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

674
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: we're stealing street from Facebook seemed to fail more off

675
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: and then he succeeded. Yeah, but they what the hell,

676
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: they were desperate. They sent him photos and other information

677
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: about the disappearance um, and he contacted them and gave

678
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: them some clues about his feeling about where the kids

679
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: might might be, more their bodies might be. And of

680
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: course all those were checked out. None of them panned out,

681
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: so eventually decided to would be better if he went

682
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: to Australia. Yeah that makes sense, like feelings better, closer

683
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: to boots on the ground and honest uf yeah, yeah,

684
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: and his travel expenses were paid by a rich Australian

685
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: businessman who had taken an interest in the case. Who

686
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: is hilarious looking by the way. Yeah, oh he he uh.

687
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: He wears great suits and funny hats. Yeah I've seen

688
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Oh you had to ask me. I knew it until then.

689
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: But he's the funniest looking guy ever. Okay, Well, well, anyway,

690
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: it's very generous of them to treat close to a

691
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,479
Speaker 1: free trip to Australia. The Bamas, for their part, didn't

692
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: actually want to meet with Class because they thought he

693
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: was a quack. They didn't believe in psychics, and they

694
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: also really were not happy about the media feeding frenzy

695
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: that was taking place. Yeah, the word got out that

696
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: he was coming and everybody got all excited. Uh. He

697
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: did succeed in actually meeting with the Beaumas before he

698
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: left Australia, but yeah, I don't think they took him

699
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 1: too seriously. Yeah, he kept changing his mind about where

700
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: they were then, This is before he even arrived in Australia.

701
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: He was he kept changing his mind about that. At

702
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: first he said they were only half a mile from

703
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: where they disappeared, maybe in a collapsed stormwater pipe, and

704
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: then he changed his mind, said that they were in

705
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: some sand dunes. UM. When he arrived in Australia, which

706
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: was like November, he walked on the beach and just

707
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: sort of commune with nature and stuff, and then said

708
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: that he felt that they were buried under the floor

709
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: of a warehouse that had recently been constructed. Um and

710
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: so he he requested that they rip up the concrete

711
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: floor of the warehouse because the bodies were underneath the

712
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: underneath there. The police were skeptical because they had searched

713
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: the area thoroughly at the time the kids disappeared. This

714
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: was actually a building site and then so they hadn't

715
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: poured the concrete slab yet, so actually in all likely

716
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: place to dispose of some bodies. What the police had

717
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 1: had apparently searched the work site before the concrete slab

718
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: had been poured, and so they were extremely skeptical. And

719
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: of course the building's owner wasn't enthusiastic at all about

720
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: the idea. Of course, the person who has a stake

721
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: in this building. Oh yeah, uh. They kicked off a

722
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: big fundraising campaign to raise funds to compensate the owner

723
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: for the damage that was going to be done. Raised

724
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: about forty bucks. They ripped up the floor and found nothing,

725
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: and then again they it was the building was partially

726
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: demoed in and then the current owner then let the

727
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: police society again and once again nothing was found. And

728
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: this is weird. Well, they brought in the cadaver dogs.

729
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: Remember that, because I actually watched some of the footage

730
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: from that, because of course you media feeding frenzy. The

731
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: cameras are all there, and I must have watched four

732
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: different newscasts in a row that were you know, they

733
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: had the cadaver dogs and the pits trying to figure

734
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: things out. The dogs weren't really getting much of anything weird. Yeah,

735
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: like they were may not have been bodies there. Yeah,

736
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: maybe their bodies weren't there. Yeah yeah. Actually, uh later

737
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: told somebody that he actually believed that the children were

738
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: buried in the foundation of a block of apartments, but

739
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: then he didn't he didn't say anything about that because

740
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: he didn't want to upset the people living in the apartment,

741
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: so he decided on the warehouse instead. That reached him manure. Yeah, yeah,

742
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that, will I forget it. But

743
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: he left Australia Australia. Many people thought that he was

744
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: just a fraud and he never came back. Yeah. And

745
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: also there's another psychic who has kind of stuck him

746
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: inserted himself into this case. Uh, Australian guy named Scott

747
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: Russell Hill who claims to be a psychic detective, and

748
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: he's written a book called Psychic Detective. That's a good name.

749
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't think that. He says

750
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 1: that he knew the Beaumont kids when he was young,

751
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't bother to check that out, and I'll

752
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: take him at his words. Yeah. He also said that

753
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: he encountered with Grant's ghost. Remember Grant was a little

754
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: four year old. I'll also take that at face value. Yeah. Yeah,

755
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: so he had account ghost and he says he's working

756
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: on the case, but so far nothing. Yeah, that's the

757
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: only part of this that I believe. Yeah. Yeah, so

758
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: so the psychics didn't really pan out a last. When

759
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: you want to talk about next suspects, maybe, yeah, you

760
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: guys were there, I want to talk about suspect No,

761
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: not at all. I guess we'll start because suspects are

762
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: theories at this point. Yeah. Yeah, the theories are or

763
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: who done it? Yeah, there are really interesting ones. Yeah.

764
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: So the first one is a gentleman, if you can

765
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,320
Speaker 1: go on that, by the name of Bevin Spencer von Einem.

766
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 1: And I'm just going to preface this by saying, sometimes

767
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: when you research this kind of mystery, you end up

768
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: having to research a person who was so horrible that

769
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: you literally do not know where to start. And I

770
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: think Steve felt this way too when researching his suspect um.

771
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go ahead and say, of all of

772
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: the real life confirmed killers we've ever talked about in

773
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: the show, this guy in my book takes the cake

774
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: every single time. I watched a number of news pieces

775
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: about this guy, and every single time they referred to

776
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: him as the sadistic von Eimen. That was that his title,

777
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: Like that's his name. Now he is currently alive and

778
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 1: currently in jail. Well, and if he's part of what

779
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: he's alleged to be part of, then it's super He's

780
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: definitely part of what he's alleged to be part of.

781
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to go on the record and say he's

782
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: absolutely part of that, and we'll talk about that. He's

783
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: not He's not a nice guy. I wasn't trying to

784
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 1: defend this a great citizen. I mean, he's in jail

785
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: for a long time for a reason. Yeah, but guess

786
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 1: what the possibility of problem? She doesn't get that anyways,

787
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: W go Australia. Einem was born in nineteen forty five

788
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: or maybe nineteen fifty nine, I'm not sure, to be honestly.

789
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: When you google him, right, there's usually that like preview

790
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: of the Wikipedia page, and on the preview it says

791
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: born in nineteen fifty nine, and you click through and

792
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 1: it's like born in nineteen So I literally don't know

793
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: ye what year he was born in I'm I so too.

794
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going with for all of the like

795
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: ages that we're gonna refer to in a little bit.

796
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: But just so you guys know, there is that discrepancy

797
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: on the Internet Internet somewhere, I'm going to say that

798
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: that was a Wikipedia update that then got cash by.

799
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: Yeah it's possible. Yeah, Um, so he was born in

800
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: Australia because it was a suspect and he was born

801
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: in it would have been seven yea. Probably not that

802
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: his Wikipedia and Murtipedia page list his number of victims

803
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: as one to five plus. Probably doesn't. He is currently

804
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: serving life with possibility of parole somehow. Like we said,

805
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: I kind of suspect he's never going to get He's

806
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: definitely not. But the fact that it's a possibility is

807
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: interesting to me. To understand why he's so horrible, you

808
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: have to learn about something that happened in the late

809
00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: seventies to mid eighties in Adelaide called the Family murders.

810
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: Who in hell named this the media? Actually yeah, folcally

811
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: this is it's a group of suspects that was called

812
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: the Family and police are adamantly against calling them that

813
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: because they feel like it gives legitimacy to a group

814
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: of people who did some really bad stuff but aren't

815
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: affiliated with each other anymore. I don't know how the

816
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: police choose to refer to these guys, so unfortunately, we're

817
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: going to refer to them as the family. How well

818
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: documented is the existence of this group? Um, it's from

819
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: what I have read, it's internally confirmed within the police.

820
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: The problem you run into, um shockingly, put on your

821
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: tin hats, is that everybody but I am is allegedly

822
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: either a really successful business person or connected to the

823
00:46:53,480 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: politics society, politicians, judges, yeah, um, or just you know,

824
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: rich business people, so they've got the connections. So it's

825
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: actually when you when you research about these they're referred

826
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 1: to as um item and then you've got suspect one, two,

827
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: and three. They're not named, even though the police are

828
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: pretty sure they knew who these people are. How do

829
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: psychotic perverse like this find each other? I mean, and

830
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: seriously interesting, isn't it. You just like walk up to

831
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: your guy in the bar and say, hey, what are

832
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: you into? And they meet each other on per book.

833
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: Yeah in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, But I've always wondered about,

834
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: like like previously, like we talked about Leonard Lake and

835
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: Charles Ing you know each other. That was a prison Yeah,

836
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: but those two met in prison. But it's like, you know,

837
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: how did they One of them said, Hey, you know,

838
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: I really like this torturing and raping and murder. How

839
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: about you do me? No, I don't know, and I

840
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: especially don't know how these guys all met, but they did,

841
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: and together they are suspected to be responsible for at

842
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: least five, but probably twelve or thirteen murders all um,

843
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: almost all young people. The oldest one is twenty five,

844
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: but that's an outlier. The bulk of them are under seventeen.

845
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: And as it turns out, all but one of the

846
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: like five like definitely attributed to these people. Murderers are unsolved,

847
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: so that means that we know what we're doing next October.

848
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: He just kidding. Um. The one that has been solved

849
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: is the one that von Einen is serving life for

850
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: the murder of Richard Kelvin in Um nineteen eighty three.

851
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to go too deep into this. It's

852
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,879
Speaker 1: really really vicious. But Richard was a fifteen year old

853
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:55,760
Speaker 1: boy who was kidnapped, raped, sodomized, and tortured for five

854
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: weeks until his death caused by massive blood loss due

855
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: to an anal dream. Um. His body was dumped on

856
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: July three, unceremoniously and really poorly hidden right next to

857
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: an airfield, and they found a lot of drugs. They

858
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: found a quote massive amount of um what they call

859
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: hypnotic drugs, drugs which are sedatives, um. And it was

860
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: four different kinds and this is this is what this

861
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: is what did Yeah, they did a search of his house. Um.

862
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: Actually they did a search of people who had been

863
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: prescribed these drugs, and a Mr. B Von I'm in

864
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: I M can be the names to the I'm sorry

865
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: came up and the police knew this name because he

866
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: had been questioned in conjunction with four other almost identical cases.

867
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: Apparently his prescription was for a massive amount of these

868
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: drugs too, Wasn't it like a couple of thousand pills

869
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: over the course of like two years that he had

870
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: been prescribed like eight Michael, all four of these um.

871
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: But he he was found to be in possession of

872
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: two of the drugs that were found in Richard's system.

873
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: So the police went to his house. They said, hey, uh,

874
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: can we search your house? And he said yeah, totally, um.

875
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: And they found one of the well, they found one

876
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: of the drugs in his medicine cabinet. He said, oh,

877
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: it's prescribed to me. And they said, okay, are there

878
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: any other drugs in the house and he said no, no,

879
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: And they pulled a wardrobe away from the door and

880
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: there was another bottle of one of the other kinds

881
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: of medicines that was found in richard system. And they said,

882
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: as this years and he said, oh, yeah, but I

883
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: don't take it a whole lot anyway. It's actually kind

884
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: of god, I hate to say this, it's kind of

885
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: an interesting case if you want to read about it.

886
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of really good reading out there on this.

887
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: But that was a lot of other physical evidence. And

888
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: so luckily and yeah, frankly, I think for considering the

889
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: severity of the crime, they should have strung him up. Yes,

890
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: So the case was really really strong against him. He

891
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: had been acting kind of suspicious the entire time. Um.

892
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: So he was eventually sentenced to life in prison with

893
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: a twenty four year no parole term that was immediately

894
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: appealed and amended to a thirty six year no parole term.

895
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: The term was up in two thousand seven, but the

896
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 1: at time Premier of South Australia vowed that he would

897
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: not leave jail alive if it's a thirty six year

898
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: no parole term. And he went to jail in eighty

899
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: three that oh, three thirteen. Did he go to jail

900
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: that year? Yeah, that means but it was nine? Sorry, sorry,

901
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: I guess I didn't mention there. They push up parole

902
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: for things like good behavior. Okay, got it. I was

903
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: the math wasn't working, And I think that it's possible

904
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: that I got that number from the twenty four year

905
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: no parole term, not the thirty six but he was

906
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: up for parole. Did it didn't go through? I will

907
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: never go through. It won't anyhow. The family is likely

908
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: responsible for the other four murders um starting in nineteen

909
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: seventy nine of mostly teenage boys. All five of them

910
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: died due to massive blood loss caused by an adal

911
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: injury UM. Oh, except for one of them was undetermined

912
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: because farmer had set the body on fire on accident

913
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 1: um bad tractor. So the thing about em didn't the

914
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: jury deliberate deliberate for like all of three hours before

915
00:52:54,680 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: it was actually seven and a half a half. Yeah. Yeah, so, um, well,

916
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: but why is Vonayan considered a suspect in the Bouman

917
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: children disappearance? Good question. Neither of you asked it. Shame

918
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: on you. I was letting your listeners ask it. Well,

919
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean his m O doesn't necessarily match

920
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: the Beaumont children. Yeah. So this the allegation actually stems

921
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: in part from, uh, some footage that was taken by

922
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: a local news station at the time when the initial

923
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: search was mounted for the Beaumont children. UM. And in

924
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: one clip, the police are searching a storm drain and

925
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 1: there are a lot of onlookers and one of the

926
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: men looking on looks almost exactly like I am, at

927
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: like twenty or twenty one, which is how old he

928
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: would have been at the time. UM. And they actually

929
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: found an image of him from like four or five

930
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: years later, when he was twenty five. UM. And then

931
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: they for reference, they darkened his hair a little bit

932
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: and gave him similar sunglasses. So, UM, I know our

933
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 1: listeners don't have this image, but if you will turn

934
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: the page, do look rather similar. It's it's a startling similarity,

935
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: and it's a good comparison. And I would say that

936
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 1: it's not. He doesn't necessarily look like an everyday Joe.

937
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: You know when I look at this image, I mean,

938
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at that image, you're not

939
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: immediately like black could be anybody. It's they look he's

940
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: got a very distinct feature. He's got a distinct dry

941
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 1: line and chin. He's got a real jetting chin. Yeah,

942
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: although the fact that he was just sort of hanging

943
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: around while the police were doing their thing doesn't necessarily

944
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,359
Speaker 1: prove much of anything, certainly not, but but it would

945
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: place him at the area at that time. Apparently the

946
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: report I read some reports that one of the men

947
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: standing next to him also looks very similar to to

948
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: another one of the alleged families that the old man,

949
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: because the people who were standing there, they're kind of

950
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 1: in pairs. There's one pair and then there's one him

951
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: and this other guy. And I assumed that they were

952
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: talking about the guy. So the other part of this

953
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: is the statements by um a witness which which was

954
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: just referred to as Mr B. And he's deemed a

955
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: highly credible witness for almost everything, and he gave a

956
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: lot of information that led to the arrest and conviction

957
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: of on Iron allegedly He once told Mr B that

958
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: he had several years ago, taken three children from a beach,

959
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: taken them home, and um quote conducted experiments on them.

960
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: He said that he had performed performed a surgery on

961
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: each of them. Uh, then quote connected them together. And

962
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: I really hope it just means he tied them together,

963
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: not surgically attached them. I don't know that. I kind

964
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: of think, uh. And one of the children had died

965
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: during the operations, so he killed the other two and

966
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: then dumped their bodies in the Bushland's home operation. Yeah,

967
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: I can see how that would kill somebody. Yeah, And

968
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 1: apparently actually he did live in the area and did

969
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: go to Glenelg Beach to perv on the changing room

970
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: a lot, And I guess it's possible. I don't know

971
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: a whole lot about psychopathic ms and if they age

972
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: or change at all. But if he were a young

973
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: man targeting a younger demographic and that demographic aged with him,

974
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: that's not something I've ever heard of. I don't know.

975
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: I don't know either young boys you're into young men,

976
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 1: or you just kill people at random, Like I've never

977
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: I've never heard of anything where it's he was a

978
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: young man, so he was into children, and then when

979
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: he was a middle aged man, he was into young

980
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: man and progressing that way. I guess it was pure speculation,

981
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: but if there, if it were because of some sort

982
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: of trauma, that it would it could potentially age with you.

983
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Cason desires change with time, and

984
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: that goes for psychos as well as regularly, but also

985
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: potentially that he you know, if he was a psycho

986
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: and was really his draw was too much younger children,

987
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: and when he was working alone, he had been targeting

988
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: younger children, and then he found this group of people

989
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: that was like, dude, seriously like four year olds. I

990
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: don't know, fourteen year olds is like more where it's at.

991
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: That's fine, So I don't but I don't know. I

992
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: guess there's also a possibility of that or there's influence well,

993
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, and this he if if what we're talking

994
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: about is correct, he is then exactly who you were

995
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: speculating a about one of you. Recently, when we talked

996
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: about the serial killer, we were just kind of theorizing

997
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: the serial killer who continually changed their m oh, they

998
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: didn't actually have I'm sure you're the one who brought

999
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: that up. Actually, I don't think that was me. I

1000
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: think that was one of you. But the point is this,

1001
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: that's that's a good that that's a that's a good idea.

1002
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,479
Speaker 1: It's a good I mean, it's a it's an interesting point.

1003
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: I I think that personally, if you're targeting, you know,

1004
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: people in the four to nine year old range, there's

1005
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: a couple of good reasons for it, and it's probably

1006
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: it probably is not going to change. One handy thing

1007
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: about little kids is that they're fairly naive and small

1008
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: and weak and so. But I guess if like, if

1009
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: you're thinking, like I want to overpower and do horrible

1010
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: things to a person, right, if you're one single person,

1011
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: you're going to target something that's easier than if you're

1012
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: a group of five grown men, four grown men, three children.

1013
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: Though isn't easy that's gained their trust. I don't know. Again,

1014
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing pro or con on this one. It's hard.

1015
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. And then I guess a few

1016
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: other things we need to mention because I'm just going

1017
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 1: to move this forward a little bit. Um. One is

1018
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: that apparently Vaughan I'm in was um he was reported

1019
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: to be preoccupied with children, whether that like we've been

1020
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: arguing back and forth, Mr B did say that he

1021
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: was preoccupied with children and that he actually claimed to

1022
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: have also taken two girls from a football match and

1023
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: killed them, because he actually claimed that, or was he

1024
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: just accused of that? You know? He actually he told

1025
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: Mr B. So this was like in an encounter, he

1026
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: told Mr B. Oh, yeah, I took three kids several

1027
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: years ago. I took three kids from a beach and

1028
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: did this to them. And then a few years later

1029
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: I took two girls from a football match. He didn't

1030
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: never like say specifically like it was these kids and

1031
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,479
Speaker 1: I took them. Um. So I think, to be honest

1032
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 1: with you, that lends additional credibility to me that he

1033
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: was telling the truth versus like him just kind of bragging,

1034
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: because if he were trying to brag to brag, he

1035
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: would have said, like I'm responsible for the Beaumont kids,

1036
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm responsible for this specific case. It wouldn't have been

1037
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 1: like a vague yeah, I did this thing in my mind,

1038
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: people could commit these heinous crimes and then actually bragged

1039
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: to people. I guess Mr B was one of his

1040
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: fellow purvs, right, I think the sense that I have

1041
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: is that Mr b was kind of like a an associate,

1042
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,720
Speaker 1: not one that was responsible for like actually killing and

1043
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: kidnapping and things like that, but that he was granted

1044
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: some sort of immunities for his testimony. But the case

1045
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: that Steve was alluding to was that, um, Joanne Radcliffe

1046
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: and Christie Gordon are two girls did go missing from

1047
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: a football game uh in Adelaide in nineteen seventy three.

1048
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 1: The other issues that there is is, I know we

1049
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: didn't mention this when we were kind of going through

1050
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: but the description, Yeah, the the witnesses description of the

1051
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: blonde man in the blue swim trunks. Um, they guessed

1052
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 1: that he was in his thirties, UM, which was older

1053
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: than von I m would have been. UM. But photos

1054
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: of him from around that time do actually really closely

1055
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: match the sketches. He was kind of a sandy blonde

1056
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: at that point. UM. And then I would be remiss

1057
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: if I didn't mention the first reason that anybody knew

1058
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: about Von Einman, and that is the night of May tenth,

1059
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, which is just weird. If you read

1060
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: his Wikipedia page, you will find a heading called the

1061
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: Good Samaritan and on night of May nine, two gay

1062
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: men were thrown into the river Torrens and this attack

1063
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: was widely believed to have been carried out by a

1064
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: group of police officers squad h Yeah, and one of

1065
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: the men did drown and the other one survived with

1066
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: a broken leg or maybe broken ankle. Accounts Ferry broken something,

1067
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 1: but he I guess played dead until the cops left,

1068
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: crawled out of the river, crawled to a road, flagged

1069
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 1: down a passing car. The driver took the man to

1070
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: the hospital. The driver was Bevin Spencer Van I am,

1071
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: I am, which is weird, Like I know you would

1072
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: think would like it. I'll push the guy back down

1073
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: the river back and then got down and murder him.

1074
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 1: It's just it's just a little weird, I guess in

1075
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: my mind, which is like it just kind of brings

1076
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: up that like stigma that we have about psychopaths that

1077
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, they just want to kill everyone, but

1078
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: they don't kill a certain act. Yeah, he has he

1079
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: has very specific tastes. So anyway, that's um, that's him,

1080
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: and I kind of like him. I wasn't able to

1081
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: find explicitly where in South Australia he was living at

1082
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: the time of the disappearance of the Beaumont children, but

1083
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: it sounds like he was in the area. He you know,

1084
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: kind of casually claimed that he was responsible for a

1085
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: lot of these disappearances. I think he was probably certainly

1086
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: capable of it. He kind of matches the description. I

1087
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: don't know. I think he's a plausible He certainly is.

1088
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: We'll never will probably never know unless well, he's still alive,

1089
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 1: so he might fess up one of these things. He's

1090
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: still alive, but you but he has the possibility of parole,

1091
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 1: even though people think he's not gonna ever make it out.

1092
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: But if he were, like, yeah, I did those crimes,

1093
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: like he'd be dead pretty quick and he's never going

1094
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: to get out of parole anyway, though, somebody needs to

1095
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: convince that. Yeah, but there might be a deathbed confession

1096
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 1: confession you know, hopefully one can help. Yeah. So yeah,

1097
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: that's h that's my guys. Yeah, my guy's just a

1098
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: total champ too. So thanks for whoever saddled me with

1099
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: this one. You volunteered, I actually didn't. I said I

1100
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: don't care. Joe was the one who was typing that

1101
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: we don't care. Well, let's talk about this guy in

1102
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: true killer fashion. He's got three names. He's always identified

1103
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: as Arthur Stanley Brown. We're just gonna kind of take him,

1104
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 1: as we do with a lot of these guys. We're

1105
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: just gonna take you kind of through who they are

1106
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: and what they've done, and then why it's relevant to

1107
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: the case. So Arthur was born nine lived in a town,

1108
01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: uh most of his life, a place called Townsville. It

1109
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: fully sounds like it's out of a cartoon. It's kind

1110
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: of like towntown town Berg. Yeah. Townsville is northwest of Brisbane.

1111
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: It's god, it's like kilometers, so it's it's a good

1112
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: distance away from there. But that was kind of a landmark.

1113
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: I could find what is that in miles? I don't know, Joe,

1114
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 1: what is that in miles? Kilometers? That's all right, I

1115
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: can get my phone and get the calculmar. I want

1116
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: you to do that. He So Brown did Mary. He

1117
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:29,439
Speaker 1: married a woman whose name was Hester Anderson. I'm sorry, Okay, Yeah,

1118
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: Devin likes the name Hester. Hester had three children of

1119
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 1: her own from her first marriage, and uh, I'm gonna

1120
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: say thankfully she never had any children with Arthur. According

1121
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: to the you will see it referred to as either

1122
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: the family secret or the family legend. Everybody knew in

1123
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: the family that Arthur had a thing for kids, and

1124
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: then he was a pedophile. And there are allegations that

1125
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: he molested a number of children in the family. And

1126
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't just mean his wife's children. It sounds like

1127
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: he was any children in the family that he could

1128
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 1: get his grubby little hands. This is the one that

1129
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: the book's being written about. Or is it a different person?

1130
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: What book are you talking about? The satin Oh No,

1131
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: that's that's Harry. Different guy, that's Harry. Yeah, that's a

1132
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: different guy, totally different person, very similar backgrounds. But it's

1133
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: from the accounting that the parents told the kids to

1134
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: keep away from him, and they told him, they told

1135
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: him why they were Evidently didn't hide the fact that

1136
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: they considered him a pedo. They don't understand why they didn't.

1137
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 1: Just like to the police, I say the same freaking thing.

1138
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. But I did learn a really an

1139
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: interesting slang, which is rock spider. Evidently that's slang for

1140
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 1: a pedophile in Australia and I've never heard of that one.

1141
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: But the kids used to all of the kids in

1142
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: the family would refer to him as a rock spider,

1143
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: so they all knew stay away from that guy. He

1144
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: He is pretty well known because of a case that happened.

1145
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: It's a disappearance in killing that of two young girls

1146
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy's the s of August nineteen seventy. We

1147
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: have Susan and Judith Mackay and these girls are five

1148
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: and seven and they disappeared from a suburb which is

1149
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: eight Conville. Believe it's how your pronounced. Their bodies were.

1150
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 1: They disappeared on the twenty six. Their bodies were found

1151
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: two days later in a creek bed and they had

1152
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: been molested and both of them had been stabbed in

1153
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: the chest three times of peace. One of them was

1154
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 1: strangled that the stabs weren't what killed them. One of

1155
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 1: them was strangled and one of them it's officially it

1156
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: was a fixiate it with sand asfixiated Yeah, that word, um,

1157
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't or I don't know if that is that

1158
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: or shove face in sand till run off. I don't know.

1159
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: But but the hunt for the girls was huge and

1160
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,560
Speaker 1: there eventually was a big reward put out for information.

1161
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,600
Speaker 1: It was ten thousand dollars at the time, which is

1162
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,839
Speaker 1: equivalent to about a hundred grand today. People came forward,

1163
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: they had all these stories of what they had seen. Um.

1164
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 1: But some people to people who came forward that would

1165
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: become important to this are a man who was said

1166
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: he saw the girls at a bus stop at eight

1167
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: ten that morning, and then another person who said he

1168
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: saw the girls in a car at a gas station

1169
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock in the morning, and the guy at

1170
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 1: the gas station said he overheard the girls, one of

1171
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: them saying, you said you were going to take us

1172
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 1: to see mummy. I want to see mummy now, So

1173
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 1: that you know that kind of to me. I don't

1174
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,520
Speaker 1: know why. Well I do know why it was discredited

1175
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: at the time, and but we won't get too much

1176
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: into that. So here's what goes on though, is that

1177
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: people say they see these girls in a car, and

1178
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: the car description is really really bad. It turns out

1179
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: to be described as a blue car. But there's three

1180
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: different kinds. There is a Holden e H which is

1181
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: kind of a it's it's like a late sixties that

1182
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:37,600
Speaker 1: flat square style of car. Yeah, yep. There's there's a

1183
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: couple of witnesses who say well, no, it wasn't that.

1184
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: Instead it was a Vauxhall Victor, and the Vauxell is

1185
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: more of a nineteen fifties round ish car. You know,

1186
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 1: they don't look they don't look much alike at all.

1187
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: And what's even worse is that the people who say

1188
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: that it was a Vauxhall Victor, they eventually changed their

1189
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 1: description to a different kind of hole that. I think

1190
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: it's a hold In f J, which is also kind

1191
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 1: of a nineteen fifties roundies style looking car. But the

1192
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 1: one thing that those two people do agree upon is

1193
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: the fact that this blue car had a driver's side

1194
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: door that wasn't the same color as the rest of

1195
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 1: the car. Interesting, if you're gonna be a handy tip

1196
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: for you would be serial killers out there, you want

1197
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: to like not have cars like that. Yeah, yeah, well

1198
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: that's the focus. Yeah, or an Escort or something. But Honda,

1199
01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 1: Honda Accord, maybe a Kia maybe Kia. Well, well, the

1200
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: point is the cops went with a Holden. They decided

1201
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: it's got to be the Holden. I don't remember. I

1202
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,799
Speaker 1: think it was the the e H is the description

1203
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: they went with. So people are looking for holdens that

1204
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 1: have a weird colored door and obviously never find the car.

1205
01:10:54,520 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 1: We then jumped forward to and at the point Arthur's

1206
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 1: one of his relatives sees a TV show where the

1207
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: case of these two girls is. You know, it's one

1208
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 1: of those kind of cold case rehash TV shows, and

1209
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: she says, well, you know, the description kind of sounds

1210
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 1: like that's that skiezy uncle of mine. And she reports him,

1211
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: and okay, she sees the sketch of the man. They

1212
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: had a sketch of the man who's driving the car,

1213
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: and you think, well, okay, it's like thirty years later.

1214
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: He can't look like the same dude except the brown. Really,

1215
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 1: he didn't he aged, but his face looked remarkably similar

1216
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy to two thousand. It got wrinkly, but

1217
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,880
Speaker 1: it didn't sag or really change at all. He's one

1218
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 1: of those disturbing people who I you've I've talked about. Yeah,

1219
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: he just he doesn't he Yeah, he's that painting somewhere.

1220
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: He doesn't look like he aged. That. That explains something here,

1221
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: because I was going to mention later, but being born

1222
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,839
Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve, the Guy and the Beast was described

1223
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 1: as mid thirties and he would have been fifty four,

1224
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: so maybe he did at just age really really well. Well,

1225
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 1: I mean we've had this conversation. I have an uncle

1226
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: who is in his seventies, and if you didn't know

1227
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,680
Speaker 1: what you would think he was in his early to

1228
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: mid fifties. And you both have met him and probably

1229
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 1: didn't realize how old he was. Yeah, my mom, I

1230
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 1: have memories of her getting carded. You don't have memories

1231
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,280
Speaker 1: until you're you know, really like five six. She had

1232
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: me when she was thirty five. I get carded still,

1233
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: which is weird. I get carted all the time, you

1234
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: do know. I get carded very rarely get There are

1235
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: people who yeah, definitely just age. Well yes, well this guy,

1236
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,599
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so we're thirty years later the cops

1237
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: when they go ahead and they follow up on this tip,

1238
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: and then suddenly they start realizing some things like he

1239
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: had a Vauxhall Victor at the time that the girls

1240
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: were murdered, and the lo and behold it had it

1241
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,320
Speaker 1: was blue and it had an off colored door. Huh.

1242
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: And he did some weird stuff like he took the

1243
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,519
Speaker 1: door off and he buried it and he replaced it

1244
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 1: with another door. And then later on went and dug

1245
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 1: that door back up. His family's like, you're so weird,

1246
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,479
Speaker 1: what are you doing. He gave some weird excuse about

1247
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: how he didn't want to be involved in the case,

1248
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: and like, really, to me, things that call suspicion to yourself.

1249
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: Yet nobody did anything at the time. That's kind of

1250
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: a kind of just a lot of work when he

1251
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: could have just taken it somewhere and got to body

1252
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: shop and gotten it repainted. Yeah. Although the other on

1253
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 1: the other hand, if there's this search happening for a

1254
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: car and you're responsible auto shop, somebody brings a car

1255
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: that matches that description with a weird description, that's the problem.

1256
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,519
Speaker 1: Is the cops were golden going with the hold in

1257
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: and he had the Vauxhall, so he totally could have

1258
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: done something simple enough for all he knew. They were

1259
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: just yeah, he was being smart. I don't know he was.

1260
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: He wasn't being very smart at all. I would have

1261
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 1: pushed it into the river and reported for insurance. So

1262
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 1: here's some of the other things that kind of became

1263
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:25,599
Speaker 1: damning evidence against him is that he um for thirty years. God,

1264
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: I think it was like thirty years or something like that.

1265
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: He was a carpenter and he worked for the Queensland

1266
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 1: Department of Public Works. Takes care of public buildings, is

1267
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:36,680
Speaker 1: kind of the simple way to think of that. And

1268
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:38,640
Speaker 1: one of the things he had to do was he

1269
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: had been working at the time the girls disappeared at

1270
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: their school, so he would have seen them painting the school. Right,

1271
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm making a TV reference. Yeah,

1272
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,760
Speaker 1: I was totally gonna say, wait a minute, you're making

1273
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 1: a TV show, Joe. I am um ten points to Raven.

1274
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 1: We have to do the clothing. That's Raven clothe, Okay,

1275
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: Harry Potter jokes point being he uh. He gets he

1276
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: gets hauled into court, they press charges. The first trial

1277
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: ends in a hung jury. They try to try him again.

1278
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: His lawyer then files emotion and it eventually goes through

1279
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: saying he's not fit to stand trial because he was

1280
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,280
Speaker 1: starting to suffer from dementia and he had Alzheimer's and

1281
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: he died in two thousand and two. And it's fairly

1282
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,519
Speaker 1: that they're fairly certain that he is responsible for the

1283
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 1: murder of these two young girls, but they can't say

1284
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 1: for sure because there's things like there's no records of

1285
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: where he worked at certain times, so some of the

1286
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 1: stuff is spotty. Like they know he was at the

1287
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 1: school where the these two girls were at s were murdered,

1288
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: but like for the Beaumont children, they don't have records

1289
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: because there is um There was a giant flood and

1290
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,680
Speaker 1: it wiped out a bunch of records because you know,

1291
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:05,480
Speaker 1: back in the day when everything's done in paper, waterlogged

1292
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: records are useless. But they think that he might be

1293
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: involved in this because if he was working for the

1294
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 1: Department of Public Works, he could be connected to the

1295
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 1: Beaumont case because that means that he would have gone

1296
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: where they told him to go. It's a long way

1297
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: away from where he lived. It's d kilometers, it's fifteen

1298
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: hundred miles. I think if I actually did the math on,

1299
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,799
Speaker 1: people do have to travel that far from work, especially

1300
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,640
Speaker 1: in Australia where it's everything's kind of far. Everything is

1301
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: very far away from a lot of the things that

1302
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 1: are major on the coast, and the coastline is long,

1303
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: so it's going to be a big area. But I

1304
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 1: get that. Yeah, so I'm not sure. I think this

1305
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:53,519
Speaker 1: guy is kind of weak. Well, no, I mean, it's

1306
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 1: it's there's some other things. Well, I don't know that

1307
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: he's I don't know that he's necessarily we I mean,

1308
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 1: there's the whole he looked young earth than he actually was.

1309
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: Bit there's working for the Public Works Department. Um, the

1310
01:17:05,439 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: records being destroyed in the it's the Brisbane flood seventy

1311
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: four is the one that did it. But there's that,

1312
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,479
Speaker 1: Or there's the fact that he worked for the Public

1313
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 1: Works Department, so theoretically he probably had access to the

1314
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:22,720
Speaker 1: records room to go file his reports and stuff. Yeah,

1315
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: he could have destroyed the records of what he did

1316
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 1: if it was just a regular working stiff. I'm not

1317
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: sure how much time he would have had to spend

1318
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: loafing on the beach, you know, you know, getting into

1319
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 1: young children, that is That is kind of the odd

1320
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: One of the things that's that's hard for me with

1321
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 1: this is that, Yeah, he would have had to have

1322
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: been on the beach and been there for an extended

1323
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: amount of time, as I said before, because the kids

1324
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,920
Speaker 1: didn't go to the beach every day, so he would

1325
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: just be prowling around. But if if he were working

1326
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 1: at their school, Jane or Arness, Yeah, if he were

1327
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,680
Speaker 1: working at Jane's school, for instance, and had developed a

1328
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 1: relationship with her and then bumped into her at the beach. Yeah,

1329
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 1: because they think the sense that I had of those

1330
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 1: children was that Jane was the responsible. Well, she was responsible,

1331
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: but she was also the most shy of them. So

1332
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,839
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, had she accepted someone in general,

1333
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:22,880
Speaker 1: the other two would have followed her lead. You know,

1334
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 1: if she said no, it's okay, you guys, this is

1335
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:26,120
Speaker 1: my friend, they would have been like, oh, yeah, of

1336
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 1: course that's okay. Jane says it's you know, okay, So

1337
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 1: it's okay. I don't I don't like Brown for this one.

1338
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's a stretch for him to

1339
01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 1: be that far from home, but I can see why

1340
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:45,679
Speaker 1: people would would lump him in, especially when everybody kind

1341
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 1: of knew he really had a thing for kids. Yeah, yeah,

1342
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 1: all right, we were we were promised some more suspects.

1343
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: There are actually three more. I know they're a little weak.

1344
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: Um yeah, they do kind of progressively get weak, lower

1345
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 1: and lower on the possibility, and it's like I organized

1346
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,560
Speaker 1: it that way or something something. The uh, well, the

1347
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: next two are really kind of weak because they were

1348
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:12,840
Speaker 1: really way too young to have been this guy on

1349
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 1: the beach in his mid thirties, although again, you know

1350
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily well yeah, also the guy in the

1351
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 1: beach might not have been involved at all. And here's

1352
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: the deal. You know, supposing you were that guy and

1353
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:29,000
Speaker 1: you're living in Adelaide at the time, or you hang

1354
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: out on that beach and you knew the kids and

1355
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,920
Speaker 1: you read about this in the paper, are you going

1356
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: to come forward and say, Hey, I I hung out

1357
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: with the kids a few times. But are you going

1358
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: to do that? I guess I would. I guess yeah.

1359
01:19:43,439 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: And maybe this is like the difference between like being

1360
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 1: a lady and being a dude. But like I guess

1361
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 1: I would because I would have nothing to fear front, right,

1362
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: really well, but I think he would say, like, yeah,

1363
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: like here's my story. Do everything you can to like

1364
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: search my house, you know, see if I've ever been

1365
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 1: prescribed any you know, like any like just do everything

1366
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: that you can. Here's the difference. There's there's two two

1367
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: problems here. One you're a woman, and but two it's

1368
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 1: also nineteen six and it's easy to just fall off

1369
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:23,720
Speaker 1: the radar and stay away because any you know, cases easily.

1370
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 1: And I will say at the time. I feel like,

1371
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: whether it was Australia or England or the United States

1372
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 1: or wherever, things like this become a witch hunt and

1373
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:40,560
Speaker 1: as soon as you do something, everybody is putting you

1374
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: under the microscope. I guess for so for me, like

1375
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 1: he would have had to have left town, right because

1376
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:51,640
Speaker 1: if this guy lived in that area and stayed in

1377
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 1: that area, the fact that, like so many different witnesses

1378
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 1: placed him with the Beaumont children. You go out one

1379
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 1: day to dinner and people are like, oh my god,

1380
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 1: it's you. You're the one I saw. Police everybody, this

1381
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: is the one I saw. Like, that's that's what's going

1382
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: to happen in that case, right, either you come forward

1383
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 1: or you leave, that could happen. Well, no, I mean

1384
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 1: you could just Uh here's why why I probably would

1385
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 1: not come forward if it if it had been me,

1386
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: I would probably stop going to the beach, but I

1387
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily leave town. Uh. And if if I eventually

1388
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: I did get busted, I just say, hey, you know,

1389
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, I never had any reason to think that

1390
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 1: it was me. I never had anything to do with this.

1391
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 1: And then except I mean, except for if somebody like

1392
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 1: a bunch of people say, no, we saw you with

1393
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, then you said, then you have to

1394
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 1: explain why you didn't come forward, and that makes you

1395
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:44,720
Speaker 1: look even guiltier. And the circle that we can get

1396
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,200
Speaker 1: but you can pretty easily. It is it is. There's

1397
01:21:47,200 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: there's good arguments on both sides. But the thing about

1398
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: it is is if you come forward and then you

1399
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 1: become a person of interest, then somebody at the police

1400
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: department leads it to the press, and then once it's

1401
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: out in the press and your name and your photograph

1402
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:00,720
Speaker 1: are out there, your life is just your one over

1403
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: you I hear you. Yeah, yeah, it's again, it's like

1404
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 1: both arguments. Yeah, that's why I probably if it had

1405
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 1: been me, I probably wouldn't come forward. I just go

1406
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: on a really long vacation. But so or find a

1407
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: job in another town. But let's get back to our

1408
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 1: our next two suspects. Well, these guys actually could have

1409
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 1: been involved. I mean they they were not good people,

1410
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: and but they were really way too young to have

1411
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: been this thirty five to forty year old guy. But

1412
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they weren't involved. They maybe could have

1413
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: been involved, because this this is not necessarily just one

1414
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: guy that did this and as we've talked about, like

1415
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,480
Speaker 1: both of you know, both Steve and I had suspects

1416
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 1: that we're not mid thirties, but definitely matched the police sketches,

1417
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, on either end. And I want to throw

1418
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: one more suspect. By the way, Jane, I think she

1419
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: objected the two years. Okay, so what's your first one?

1420
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 1: All right, let's go right to the real suspects here,

1421
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: James Ryan O'Neill. Uh Si. Again, this guy is not

1422
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 1: a wrong suspect, but we'll talk about it for a minute. Anyway.

1423
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:05,439
Speaker 1: Uh he was born Lee Anthony bridge Art, and I

1424
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: think I'm pronouncing that correctly. I mean, it looks like

1425
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: he can pronounce it brid Gart, but I'm gonna go

1426
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 1: with bridge Art. But he was born in nineteen seven,

1427
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 1: so make him a bit young. But inten seventy one,

1428
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: he was charged with twelve crimes related to abductions and

1429
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 1: sexual assaults of four boys. So he skipped town and

1430
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: skipped bail. Yeah, really weird, and went to West. I mean,

1431
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 1: he's if somebody has abducted an assaulted four boys, why

1432
01:23:32,280 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 1: would you put them on on bail? Why would you

1433
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:36,679
Speaker 1: look up? Yeah? I mean really well, because you can't.

1434
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: You don't know that they have, right, I mean, I

1435
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: guess I would set Bill awfully high. But well, anyway,

1436
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: he skipped bail, went to Western Australia. He changed his

1437
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: name to James Ryan O'Neill. Uh, and was during his

1438
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 1: time in Western Australia that he actually told several people

1439
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,679
Speaker 1: that he was the one who carried out the Billmont kidnapping.

1440
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: I guess people didn't take them all that seriously. This

1441
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,360
Speaker 1: is you know, this is again not that long after.

1442
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: This is like, you know, five, six, seven years after,

1443
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,080
Speaker 1: and uh, it was still a pretty huge deal. So

1444
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: it's kind of surprising that nobody ever talked to the

1445
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,640
Speaker 1: police about this until far far later. But anyway, in

1446
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: uh February nine, he abducted and murdered a nine year

1447
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: old boy named Rickey Smith, and not too long after

1448
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,840
Speaker 1: that he did the same thing to another nine year

1449
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: old named Bruce Wilson. And Bruce Wilson's body was found

1450
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: in May and James O'Neill fell out a suspicious for

1451
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:36,320
Speaker 1: the killing, and Vestal was dragged downtown and interrogate he

1452
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,719
Speaker 1: he fessed up. He took the police to Ricky Smith's body. Yeah,

1453
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:43,919
Speaker 1: and so he was kind of busted. He was convicted

1454
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:47,800
Speaker 1: of the crime. He's a sociopath, he has uh he

1455
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:49,960
Speaker 1: has sort of hinted that he might have been involved.

1456
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,679
Speaker 1: He was interviewed for three years by a detective named

1457
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:56,400
Speaker 1: Gordon Davy, who eventually came to believe that he was

1458
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 1: the guy who hadn't have the Beaumont children. But again,

1459
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,720
Speaker 1: he was on eighteen years old when the kids disappeared,

1460
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:06,680
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Again, but but again, the guy

1461
01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: in the beach might not have been the kidnapper. I've

1462
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:10,760
Speaker 1: been able to find any pictures of him, but I've

1463
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:13,640
Speaker 1: also read that he doesn't look like the kidnappers description.

1464
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 1: But again, again, we don't know that the guy at

1465
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 1: the beach was actually a kidnapper, as the South Australian

1466
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: Police have questioned them and they don't think he's a

1467
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 1: good suspect and uh he uh. He apparently was involved

1468
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 1: in a lot of abductions of kids. There were there

1469
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 1: were a serious of other other ones between Ricky Smith

1470
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: and Bruce Wilson's Wilson were like another four or five

1471
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: who were abductive but they managed to escape. So his

1472
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,680
Speaker 1: his m O was again to kidnap the kids one

1473
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: at a time. But he the one is he the

1474
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:46,800
Speaker 1: one who, when asked, has confessed to every abduction that

1475
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 1: they've asked him about. Yeah, that was that was our

1476
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: next suspek. Yeah, he was the next one. Was the

1477
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,519
Speaker 1: one where they were like, oh, you did this one right,

1478
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:59,720
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I was in that area right

1479
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: this It was in that area, but I don't remember

1480
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:08,920
Speaker 1: if I did it or not. Yeah, a true psychopathy. Yeah, yeah.

1481
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 1: Derek Percy, Derek Ernest Percy. Yeah, family is very famous

1482
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,400
Speaker 1: Australian criminal um. He murdered a twelve year old girl

1483
01:26:16,479 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 1: named Evon Toy and he was found not guilty by

1484
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 1: reason of insanity, which that doesn't mean that he got

1485
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 1: to walk free. He's still locked up. He's said he's psychotic,

1486
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: maybe skechophrenic, that he had this legitimate psychiatric issue whereby

1487
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: he really honestly couldn't remember a lot of stuff that

1488
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 1: he'd done, because that's what he would always say. It's

1489
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:39,760
Speaker 1: like you said, it's say, oh you know I was

1490
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: in Adelaide. I was, I was, I was right there

1491
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 1: in the immediate area, but I don't really remember killing

1492
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 1: anybody or conducting anybody. I could say that about every day. Yeah,

1493
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: I remember being there, I remember killing I remember being

1494
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 1: in Portland when Kirrain went missing. But I don't know. Yeah,

1495
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 1: I know I was. I was here. I'm sorry. Yeah no,

1496
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 1: but yeah, I I don't think he was. I'm not

1497
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,360
Speaker 1: sure that he's crazy at all. I think he was

1498
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 1: just a sociopath. Luckily for us, he died in prison.

1499
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 1: But he was also much too young. He was also

1500
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:14,000
Speaker 1: again too young, but again he could have been involved

1501
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 1: in some way or another. He placed himself at the

1502
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 1: sign at the crime scene on that day, but then

1503
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: said he couldn't recall if he did it or not.

1504
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 1: But here's the deal. It's like, like say, everybody they

1505
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 1: asked him about it, he would say, oh, yeah, I

1506
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:29,600
Speaker 1: was right there. I actually don't remember actually kidnapping that

1507
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:31,760
Speaker 1: particular kid and killing him. You know, he he said

1508
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: this stuff. I think he was just playing the corps.

1509
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:38,799
Speaker 1: He was j Yeah, yeah, he was Percy, Derek Percy.

1510
01:27:39,160 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: Apparently they found maps in his possession of the scene

1511
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:46,160
Speaker 1: of the Beaumont crime with the area circled in with

1512
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 1: a pen. But that doesn't necessarily mean much. I mean,

1513
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,640
Speaker 1: he might have just it might have been. This is

1514
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: terrible to say, but it might have been a fan thing. Yeah,

1515
01:27:54,080 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: it could have been. It could have been, or it

1516
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: could have been he just wanted to It could have

1517
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 1: been he wanted to have something that to just sort

1518
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,680
Speaker 1: of implicate himself. But I mean nothing serious. Leting a

1519
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,200
Speaker 1: map with the circle drawing out it is not going

1520
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:09,320
Speaker 1: to get you the electric chair. But yeah, it'll drive

1521
01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 1: the cops crazy, it'll drive the public crazy and the

1522
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: parents crazy. But yeah, it doesn't get them much of anywhere.

1523
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: But again, he was much too young according to what

1524
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 1: he was. He was way too young. Uh, it's not

1525
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:24,679
Speaker 1: even a parent that you know. It's thought everybody believes

1526
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,920
Speaker 1: at least that whoever did this would have had to

1527
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:30,559
Speaker 1: have a car to get the kids out of there quickly.

1528
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. Yeah, and it's not clear

1529
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: that he had a car. It's not even clear that

1530
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:36,880
Speaker 1: he even had a driver's license at that age, and

1531
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: so so that kind of lets him out. Well he was,

1532
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 1: but it was a weird, weird person. I've heard this story.

1533
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 1: This is a little bit apocry full, but when he

1534
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 1: was a teenager, he was spotted by some other boys

1535
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 1: at a watering hole. He was dressed in girl's clothes

1536
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: and he was stabbing at a pair of girls panties

1537
01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: and yelling Uh yeah, okay, yeah. Anyway, then he went

1538
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 1: down to the river's edge and defecated in the water,

1539
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 1: and then the boy all the boys, of course, ran

1540
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,519
Speaker 1: back to school and told everybody about it, and uh

1541
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 1: and actually it didn't Nobody believed them. Everybody thought it

1542
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:14,560
Speaker 1: was so strange that they were Everybody was sure that

1543
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: they were just making it up. You're making it up. Yeah,

1544
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 1: I cut it out. He was. Actually, he had a

1545
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 1: reputation as for stealing women's underwear. Apparently the women's underwear

1546
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 1: tended to disappear everywhere he went and such a weird

1547
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: thing to do. I know, I just go buy some guy.

1548
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. It was also known to be kind of

1549
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:40,920
Speaker 1: colder and emotionless. So obviously this is this guy is

1550
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 1: not a model citizen. Uh. He spent some time in

1551
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 1: the Navy and was still in the Navy when he

1552
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 1: was arrested for the murder of Yvon. Yeah. And one

1553
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:53,760
Speaker 1: reason a lot of people rule him out also is

1554
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:55,760
Speaker 1: that the Adelaide Oval case, that was the one where

1555
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:58,760
Speaker 1: the two girls went missing at the football game. Yeah,

1556
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: it's very big because, and this is one reason I

1557
01:30:02,080 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 1: don't totally buy this, but when that happened, he was

1558
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:08,799
Speaker 1: in prison, and since everybody thinks that they were committed

1559
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,720
Speaker 1: by the same person, that would rule him out. It's

1560
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 1: a suspect. Do you think that it was the same Someday?

1561
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,679
Speaker 1: Probably we will, I don't. I don't think this totally

1562
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 1: rules him out because they could have been done by

1563
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 1: two different people. I don't. A lot of people are

1564
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: absolutely certain they were done by the same Yeah, I mean,

1565
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 1: one of the things we glossed over is the fact

1566
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: that that area has had a almost prolific number of

1567
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:39,800
Speaker 1: young people disappear in that kind of same area, not

1568
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:43,040
Speaker 1: like recently, not, but there was a there was a

1569
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 1: lot of kids and young adults disappeared or were murdered.

1570
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 1: And uh we I don't think any of us wanted

1571
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 1: to touch on that in this show because it's like

1572
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:01,200
Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge thing that aren't prepared to take on,

1573
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:03,640
Speaker 1: but it is. It is probably I guess worth a

1574
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: mention that, like, there were some other things that happened

1575
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 1: around that time that the same person could or could

1576
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:12,160
Speaker 1: not have been responsible for him. But yeah, lots of

1577
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: stuff going on anyway, So he just ruled out Derek Percy.

1578
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, he was he was weak from the start. Yeah.

1579
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,919
Speaker 1: Last of all, this guy is a more recent nominee

1580
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 1: for a suspect who is Harry Phipps. He he was

1581
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:28,520
Speaker 1: the former chairman and co founder of a company called Casteloy,

1582
01:31:28,880 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 1: and somebody is apparently writing a book about him, or

1583
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 1: maybe it's out by now. I think it's called The

1584
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:37,599
Speaker 1: Satin Man, and there's really not It's it's a pretty

1585
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:39,760
Speaker 1: tenuous case, so I'm not going to spend more than

1586
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 1: thirty seconds on this. Uh yeah, but apparently one of

1587
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: his sons came forward after Phipps died, well after he died,

1588
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 1: and said that Phips, Harry Phipps, was a child abuser

1589
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 1: and a cross dresser, which of course doesn't make him

1590
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: a This is the one that the book is being

1591
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: written about, right, It's the whole long book. It's called

1592
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:02,519
Speaker 1: The Satin Man. Yeah, finding the Murderer of the Beaumont Children.

1593
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:06,080
Speaker 1: And like, this guy was a horrible man, and here's

1594
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:09,560
Speaker 1: all the dorm things he did to me, and that

1595
01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: obviously makes him responsible for my dad was a jerk. Yeah,

1596
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 1: Like I'm pretty sure that's my understanding of the whole

1597
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:18,240
Speaker 1: entire book. I haven't read it or anything, but my

1598
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:20,719
Speaker 1: understanding of the book is like, here all the reasons

1599
01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:23,160
Speaker 1: that my dad was a jerk, and he must have

1600
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:27,160
Speaker 1: of course been responsible. I know. Yeah, well, the the

1601
01:32:27,439 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: the evidence that I know. I have not read the book,

1602
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 1: I do, like I said, as far as I know,

1603
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 1: it's not even out yet. But this guy says this

1604
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 1: is Harry Phipps's son, says that on the day of

1605
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:41,920
Speaker 1: the Bee kids disappeared, he saw three children in their backyard,

1606
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:46,880
Speaker 1: which I'm not quite well wasn't And Harry Phipps also

1607
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:48,840
Speaker 1: Dick kind of resembled the description of the guy at

1608
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 1: the beach. Yeah, well, but wasn't he connected to the

1609
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:57,280
Speaker 1: property that they dug up? Yeah? I don't know, not

1610
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 1: that I know. I thought, I guess I had somewhere

1611
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:03,719
Speaker 1: that he was connected to that property that the psychic

1612
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,599
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, the kids are buried there. I thought

1613
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: that he was the owner or worked there or something.

1614
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 1: There was some connection between him and that property, and

1615
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:16,600
Speaker 1: that's what made the case quote unquote stronger. I you know,

1616
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 1: I've never actually heard who the owner of that warehouse was.

1617
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:23,200
Speaker 1: I've never heard. I don't know, so that was I

1618
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,160
Speaker 1: guess that was the only thing that I would add

1619
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: to that. It was but a kid. But then again,

1620
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,360
Speaker 1: if if, if Phipps was connected to that, but I'll

1621
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: guess what kids bodies weren't found there. Yeah, no, exactly, Yeah,

1622
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: but that that was one of the reasons I think

1623
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:37,040
Speaker 1: that the family was like, well, he was kind of

1624
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:40,479
Speaker 1: a jerk, and also he was connected vaguely to this area,

1625
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 1: so that strengthened their case a little bit. But you know,

1626
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,960
Speaker 1: I think that again I don't remember, so please everybody

1627
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 1: forgive me if I've just said something that's percent wrong. Yeah. Well,

1628
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: I think that the one reason I don't buy him

1629
01:33:55,120 --> 01:34:00,960
Speaker 1: the Phipps theory at all is that you just committed

1630
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:03,679
Speaker 1: a major crime, which is kidnapping. You take the kids

1631
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 1: to your own house and let them out in the

1632
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,120
Speaker 1: back of Hello, I don't I'll buy this at all.

1633
01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 1: I totally don't buy Harry Phipps. So I think, you know,

1634
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: maybe he was a cross dresser, maybe he was kind

1635
01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: of mean to his kids, but you know, that's about it,

1636
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: and you know, who knows, maybe even that's not true. Yeah,

1637
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: So and that's it for the suspects. Well yeah, and

1638
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 1: then there's the whole like amorphous like that. It could

1639
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:28,720
Speaker 1: be in random whoever. Yeah, I don't, it's not on

1640
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,200
Speaker 1: our list. Yeah, I don't think anyway, even our strongest

1641
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 1: suspect to his one item is Frankly, I got to say,

1642
01:34:34,960 --> 01:34:37,519
Speaker 1: the evidence is pretty thin. Yeah, it's not good. It's

1643
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: not great, but he is. I I think he's the

1644
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,920
Speaker 1: strongest of the suspect. Oh, yes, he is, but it's

1645
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: still now not great. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, people lock

1646
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 1: your kids up, put tracking devices on them, chip them,

1647
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:53,200
Speaker 1: chip your kids. What's that? What's that song? Lock your

1648
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:56,200
Speaker 1: kids to hide your wives? No, it's hide your kids,

1649
01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 1: hied your wife's That's that's I used to live by evidently. Yeah.

1650
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:04,759
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't have any kids. If if

1651
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: I have any, whenever I send them out of the house,

1652
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be trapped them. Yeah, because you're definitely

1653
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 1: and like prime kid having time. Yeah yeah, alright, kids

1654
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 1: wear your glass and nailing crusted jackets. Yeah, you know

1655
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:23,920
Speaker 1: you duct tape clean war minds to the front of

1656
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:32,760
Speaker 1: the back of face. Yeah. Well, so, as we said,

1657
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:36,559
Speaker 1: there is a one million dollar reward for anybody who

1658
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 1: has information about this. So, if you have information about this,

1659
01:35:40,240 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 1: the fact that I just said it's a million dollars,

1660
01:35:42,760 --> 01:35:46,720
Speaker 1: and tell us your theory, we'll cut you in. Yeah,

1661
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: we'll cut you in. We'll give you a one percent

1662
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: sounds fair in Australia, Australia. If you want us to

1663
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,400
Speaker 1: solve the mystery for you, your economy being Yeah, no,

1664
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do that. Just bump it up to

1665
01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:00,240
Speaker 1: one point four million, which is the equivalent of one

1666
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: billion in American and then we'll tell you. We'll tell

1667
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 1: you who did it, where the bodies are? Yeah, but

1668
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:10,600
Speaker 1: do you have anything else? Do you have anything else? Yeah? No,

1669
01:36:10,760 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 1: I doubt this case will ever be solved. I agree,

1670
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately, well until they raised the money, of course.

1671
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and then we'll solve it. UM. So if

1672
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:23,560
Speaker 1: you want to see some of the links that we

1673
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:28,600
Speaker 1: used to research this show, UM, or you want to

1674
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 1: leave a comment, UM, you can also listen and download

1675
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:36,599
Speaker 1: episodes on our website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast

1676
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:41,080
Speaker 1: dot com. Um. You are probably listening to us on iTunes.

1677
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:44,439
Speaker 1: If you are, leave as a comment and rating just

1678
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 1: it helps people find us UM continually moving up the ranking,

1679
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: moving up the rankings. Yeah. In fact, um, I think

1680
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 1: we put on Twitter. I don't know if we put

1681
01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 1: like everywhere. I'm just gonna like, I'm so proud of this.

1682
01:36:56,680 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 1: We have officially are like ninety day downloads is over million.

1683
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 1: Keep listening to us, you millions of people just getting

1684
01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:08,680
Speaker 1: it's like two thousand who just keep downloading over and

1685
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: yeah actually you can yeah, um, you can stream us

1686
01:37:19,240 --> 01:37:22,080
Speaker 1: almost anywhere. I think we're on like everything at this point. Um,

1687
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:26,439
Speaker 1: find us on all of your social media server sites things.

1688
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: We're on Facebook. We've got the group and the page,

1689
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:32,320
Speaker 1: so find his friend us like us. We're on Twitter.

1690
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: We're thinking Sideways Podcast. No, we're just thinking sideways. Um,

1691
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,160
Speaker 1: we are. We have a subreddit. I was wrong last week.

1692
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: I said it was Thinking Sideways Pod. It's not just

1693
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 1: search Thinking Sideways and you'll find us. Do we have

1694
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 1: an email account? We also have an email account. I

1695
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:51,640
Speaker 1: know you can't remember because you don't get it to

1696
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:53,840
Speaker 1: your phone, but Steve and I do. When we've gotten

1697
01:37:53,960 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: five emails since we started recording this episode. That email

1698
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 1: address is Thinking Sideway Podcast at gmail dot com. Send

1699
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: us your suggestions. We can't promise we'll ever get to them.

1700
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:11,400
Speaker 1: Uhn suggestions, but send us your feedback everything, whatever you

1701
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:13,000
Speaker 1: want to do. If you just want to talk to us,

1702
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: If you just want to misspell my name, I don't care.

1703
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 1: Her name is d E V I I A. There's

1704
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:26,360
Speaker 1: like some people have been like d A V A

1705
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 1: and I don't. Yeah, it's pretty much. It's just like that.

1706
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:32,640
Speaker 1: There's like five t s in it. It's fine. Um,

1707
01:38:32,760 --> 01:38:35,120
Speaker 1: but send us an email. We love. We will always

1708
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: get back to you. We love to talk to you people, um,

1709
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:39,559
Speaker 1: even though it may take us a couple of days.

1710
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:42,360
Speaker 1: And last but not least, if you want to make

1711
01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 1: a sustaining contribution to the show, you can do so

1712
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 1: on patreon dot com. It's patreon dot com slash thinking sideways. Um,

1713
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 1: and there's more information there for all of that stuff.

1714
01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:01,160
Speaker 1: That all having been said four hours later, Um, we're

1715
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 1: gonna get out of here. Happy October everyone. Yeah, so yeah,

1716
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 1: we'll see you in November. Yeah. So you guys are

1717
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 1: gonna meet your candy right? What candy Halloween? I'm sugar free? Yeah,

1718
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:15,759
Speaker 1: actually I will because I'm sure mine's full of razor bloods.

1719
01:39:16,040 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 1: You guys suck for life