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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: How are you are right?

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Speaker 3: Great?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited this, what do you How does it work?

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Speaker 4: Well, I've got some photos that I can show you

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Speaker 4: along the way of locations or people, the map of

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Speaker 4: the locations where we're going to be.

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Speaker 1: So where is that from the awesome History Center?

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Speaker 4: This is like you know, you can just go online

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Speaker 4: and find maps of from eighteen seventy two or eighteen

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Speaker 4: eighty six, So this is I think from eighteen ninety six. Okay, right,

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Speaker 4: So it's we're right here. This is where we are

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Speaker 4: right now, and you can tell because there's the mill

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Speaker 4: at Opera House right over there. And we're going to

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Speaker 4: be heading up Brazos in this direction towards Saint Mary's

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Speaker 4: and then head down Tenth Street right there and talk

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Speaker 4: about the old courthouse that used to be there, and

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Speaker 4: then walk over to the jail.

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Speaker 5: Let's do it.

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Speaker 6: So do I follow you?

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Speaker 1: Local historian Monica Ballard and I are on Ninth Street

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Speaker 1: in downtown Austin, Texas, talking about Eugene Burt. He was

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Speaker 1: at the center of one of the city's most gruesome crimes.

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Speaker 1: Here's a reminder of the story. In eighteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: twenty nine year old Eugene Burt was packing up and

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Speaker 1: planning to leave the city where he had spent his

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Speaker 1: whole life. He and his wife Annie had argued the

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Speaker 1: night before. He wanted to escape his string of bad

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Speaker 1: business decisions, as well as his angry brothers, by moving

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Speaker 1: the family to Dallas, but Annie was close to her

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Speaker 1: mother and her sister in Austin and she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to leave. When Eugene's housekeeper, Minnie Simms, asked where Annie

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Speaker 1: and the girls were, Eugene said that they had gone

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Speaker 1: to wait in San Antonio while he packed up their house.

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Speaker 1: They would return to Austin and then all four of

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Speaker 1: them would move to Dallas. Monica Ballard says that Eugene

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Speaker 1: Bert was very calculating and he knew how to tell

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Speaker 1: a convincing story. And this was a planned I mean,

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Speaker 1: had everybody known that they were going to Dallas?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he couldn't find work.

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Speaker 5: He thought he would have a better job.

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Speaker 4: In Yes, in Dallas. Yeah. So the packing commenced and

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Speaker 4: Minnie was offered and she accepted. The mattress that Annie

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Speaker 4: and Eugene slept on and she wow, she couldn't wait

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Speaker 4: to have a fine mattress like that. But she noticed

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Speaker 4: that a little part of the ticking had been cut off,

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Speaker 4: and she was going to go and ask about that.

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Speaker 4: And she went downstairs and found Eugene in the downstairs

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Speaker 4: dining room and he was sitting there, elbows on knees,

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Speaker 4: staring down on the floor, weeping. So she thought, let's

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Speaker 4: just let it go and not ask him about that.

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Speaker 4: The packing of the crates continued, and Eugene instructed many

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Speaker 4: to take the family photos out of their frames because

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Speaker 4: mister Miller was going to buy the frames. And she asked, well,

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Speaker 4: which crate do you want the photos in? And he said,

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Speaker 4: just throw them on the trash plan.

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Speaker 1: Eugene was weepy and erratic, but his housekeeper wasn't suspicious yet.

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Speaker 1: Minnie Simms watched her employer, the man she had known

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Speaker 1: for several years. He had always seemed kind to his family.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps the stress of his business failures was affecting him.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps he was sentimental about leaving the city where he

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Speaker 1: had grown up. Both options seemed feasible to the housekeeper,

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Speaker 1: and Minnie was too busy with Eugene's errands to analyze

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Speaker 1: him too much. Early in the morning of Saturday, July

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth, eighteen ninety six, something had happened to Annie

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Speaker 1: Bert and her young daughters, Lucille and Eleanor. They were gone,

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Speaker 1: but where Eugene Burt told many that they had taken

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Speaker 1: the five am train to San Antonio and they would

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Speaker 1: return by Wednesday. But Bert's descendant, Jeremy Childs, says that

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Speaker 1: while many worked preparing breakfast for Eugene and helping him,

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Speaker 1: he seemed to fret.

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Speaker 2: The only person that said he was acting strangely on

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Speaker 2: the day of the murders was his housekeeper, and she

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Speaker 2: mentioned that he was frantic and walking quickly.

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Speaker 1: And then he made a request that seems odd to

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Speaker 1: me looking through a twenty first century lens, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't seem out of order to many at the time.

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Speaker 2: When he ordered breakfast, he was very clear not to

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Speaker 2: use the water in the cistern because he claims that

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Speaker 2: there was an incident the night before and that the

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Speaker 2: cat had gotten into the cistern and drowned. That was

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Speaker 2: his explanation asked to why and not use the cistern

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Speaker 2: water for his breakfast, but in reality he had done something.

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Speaker 1: Far worse, Something terrible had happened to Annie and the girls.

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Speaker 1: Her family could just sense it. By Sunday, July twenty seventh,

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Speaker 1: Annie's mother, Elizabeth Powers, and her sister Agnes were distressed.

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Speaker 1: They hadn't heard from Annie for several days, which was

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Speaker 1: out of character. After attending Sunday services at Saint Mary's

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Speaker 1: Cathedral down the road, Missus Powers rapped on the Bert's

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Speaker 1: front door, and the Bert's cook, Minnie Simms answered. Missus

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Speaker 1: Powers asked where Annie and the girls were, so Many

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Speaker 1: explained that Eugene had told her that there had been trouble.

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Speaker 1: On Friday night, He and Annie had argued and they

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Speaker 1: both decided that it was best for Annie to take

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Speaker 1: their daughters on a short trip to San Antonio. They

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Speaker 1: would be back soon, so there was no need to worry.

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Speaker 4: On that Sunday, the following day that Bert had left town,

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Speaker 4: Many saw Missus Powers, Annie's mother, and expressed her dismay

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Speaker 4: that she hadn't gotten to say goodbye to Annie and

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Speaker 4: the children because they were in San Antonio, so that

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Speaker 4: would have been unusual. This struck Missus Powers is very

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Speaker 4: odd because they didn't know anybody in San Antonio, and

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Speaker 4: generally when there was trouble as was being described, you know,

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Speaker 4: if they'd had an argument or something like that, that

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Speaker 4: Annie would bundle up the children and go to her house.

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Speaker 4: That didn't happen. She was a little dismayed by this.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Childs and I talk about what happened next.

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Speaker 2: Of course, this is very odd, very unlike Anna to

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Speaker 2: not tell her mother where she might be going, especially

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Speaker 2: if it's going to be long term. Mister Bird, of course,

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Speaker 2: Eugene has traveled to Dallas, and everything seems very askew.

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Speaker 1: Does Missus Powers immediately call the police or anybody.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't raid too many red flags at that time,

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Speaker 2: but she does start to ask some questions.

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Speaker 1: Missus Powers and Annie's sister felt uneasy. The three of

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Speaker 1: them were very close, and they felt that Annie just

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Speaker 1: wouldn't leave. Finally, after a day of fretting, Missus Powers

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Speaker 1: went to a nearby police station in downtown Austin.

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Speaker 4: Missus Powers contacted Detective Cheneville and asked him to send

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Speaker 4: somebody by to check out the house on Monday. So

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Speaker 4: two policemen stop by, and of course, where there are

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Speaker 4: uniform policemen walking around, there are neighborhood boys seeing what

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Speaker 4: was going on. So they asked the boys. They said,

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Speaker 4: so you know what it's been going on here? Hou's

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Speaker 4: been quiet? Oh yeah, yeah, the birds they left Saturday.

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Speaker 4: I think, yeah, they've gone to Dallas and as well.

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Speaker 4: Anything else strange about that, Well, there's a strange smell

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Speaker 4: coming from the cellar door, but the door's locked, so

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Speaker 4: we don't know what's up. So everybody just sort of

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Speaker 4: shrugged and left.

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Speaker 5: It at that.

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Speaker 1: But none of that made Missus Powers feel any better,

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Speaker 1: so she waited one more day. By now it's Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: Missus Powers has not heard from her daughter, so she

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Speaker 1: goes to see Roscoe and Monty at their shoe store.

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Speaker 1: Even though Eugene was estranged from his brothers Roscoe and Monty,

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Speaker 1: they still cared for Annie and the girls. When Missus

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Speaker 1: Powers arrived to their store looking panicked, they panicked too,

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Speaker 1: so she pleads with them because Roscoe has a key

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Speaker 1: to the house. So Roscoe meets up with a mister Johnson,

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Speaker 1: a city health official or an ex city health official,

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Speaker 1: and went to investigate at the house. And even before

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Speaker 1: they entered the house, the stench was overpowering.

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Speaker 4: There was a foreboding odor and the ominous hum of

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Speaker 4: a myriad of flies underneath the floor in the basement.

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Speaker 2: He also notices that beneath the floorboards in the kitchen

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Speaker 2: is an abundance of flies that have started to come

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Speaker 2: in and out of the cellar area. Goes down there.

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Speaker 4: And they found the bodies, the mutilated bodies of Annie

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Speaker 4: and a toddler and an infant.

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Speaker 1: Detectives pulled the bodies of Annie and Lucille and Eleanor

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Speaker 1: from the cistern. They put a sheet over the three

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Speaker 1: of them and tried to process the scene. Nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: forensic techniques were crude compared to modern technology.

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Speaker 5: As you might.

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Speaker 1: Expect, a pathologist could analyze stomach contents, but we know

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Speaker 1: now that this technique doesn't always accurately predict time of death.

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Speaker 1: Testing the temperature of the victim's liver had not yet

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Speaker 1: been utilized as a tool. There were forensic tools available

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Speaker 1: in the late eighteen hundreds, like toxicology, chemistry, and even fingerprinting,

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Speaker 1: but none of those things came into play in this case.

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Speaker 1: And you probably know that water isn't often a friend

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Speaker 1: to investigators. Water can wash away evidence and speed up

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Speaker 1: the decomposition process, making autopsies difficult. Monica Ballard says that

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Speaker 1: the bodies of Annie and the girls had decomposed quickly

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Speaker 1: over the four days they were submerged in the cistern.

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Speaker 1: I asked Monica about the condition of the bodies.

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Speaker 4: The head was left out of the burlap sack, and

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Speaker 4: missus Burt's feet as well, And so her main body

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Speaker 4: was encased in this in this sack and bound around

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Speaker 4: with ropes.

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Speaker 6: Why do you think that he did that.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it was an easier way of lowering her in

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Speaker 4: or getting her downstairs to that point, maybe dragging her.

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Speaker 1: And the girls were separate somewhere.

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Speaker 4: The baby was wearing just a diaper and the other

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Speaker 4: girl was in a white nightgown. And yeah, the bodies

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Speaker 4: were loaded. And you could tell though that she had

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Speaker 4: been struck on the side of her head, and the

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Speaker 4: face was really so disfigured that one of the witnesses

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Speaker 4: said that he recognized her by her eyes, the color

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Speaker 4: of her eyes.

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Speaker 1: Now, it was the city physician's job to determine how

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Speaker 1: they died, which clearly wasn't from natural causes. Remember this

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Speaker 1: used to be Eugene's father's job. Doctor William Burt. If

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Speaker 1: he were still alive, it would have been his job

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Speaker 1: to report to the murder scene. Investigators loaded the bodies

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Speaker 1: onto a horse drawn cart waiting out front of the

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Speaker 1: Bird's home. A crowd had gathered on Ninth Street. Neighbors

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Speaker 1: whispered about what could have possibly happened because they seemed

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Speaker 1: like such a lovely family. Doctor Graves examined the bodies

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Speaker 1: at a local furniture store were called Miller's, and in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen hundred's autopsies often took place at furniture stores

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Speaker 1: out of convenience. The owners of the store could then

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Speaker 1: make a casket for the deceased. Doctor Graves scribbled notes

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Speaker 1: as he examined Annie and her two daughters. He first

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Speaker 1: noted what they were wearing. Annie had been wrapped in

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Speaker 1: a blanket with a rope secured around her. Then she

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Speaker 1: was placed inside a large burlap sack. The little girls

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Speaker 1: had their hands crossed on their chests. Their arms were

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Speaker 1: tied together with wire. Their feet were crossed at the ankles,

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Speaker 1: and they were also tied with wire. The wire was

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Speaker 1: then wrapped around their entire bodies, presumably to keep their

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Speaker 1: clothes in place. Their deaths their final moments were violent,

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Speaker 1: and it's difficult to read the details, especially because they

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Speaker 1: include the murders of Eleanor and Lucille.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the examination was just done there and doctor Graves

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Speaker 4: he said that the head of missus Burt had been

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Speaker 4: crushed with a blunt instrument of some kind, and the

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Speaker 4: children had an instrument of some kind thrust into their

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Speaker 4: temples with such force as to crush the bones. It

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Speaker 4: sounds like doctor Graves was describing a crude lobotomy on

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Speaker 4: a four year old and an eighteen month old. How

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Speaker 4: could a father or any parent do that? And then

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Speaker 4: doctor Graves inspected something around each of their necks. All

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Speaker 4: three had handkerchiefs tied tightly around their necks, and indications

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Speaker 4: in the opinion of doctor Graves points to strangulation first

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Speaker 4: and then the use of other means to make sure

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Speaker 4: the work of death.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Graves suspected that Eugene first strangled them and then

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Speaker 1: butchered their bodies with an axe. Annie had a gash

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Speaker 1: in her face that extended from her right temple down

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Speaker 1: her cheekbone. The girls both had the same injuries. Those

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Speaker 1: images horrified detectives and doctor Graves. So doctor Graves quickly

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Speaker 1: settled on strangulation as a cause of death for all three,

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Speaker 1: followed by some post mortem mutilation. But then after he

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Speaker 1: spoke with detectives, doctor Graves revised his opinion and it

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Speaker 1: was so much worse. Here's why. The detectives spent hours

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Speaker 1: searching the Bird's home. They looked at the mattress in

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Speaker 1: the master bedroom, They looked through Lucille and Eleanor's room.

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Speaker 1: They examined the basement where the cistern was, and they

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Speaker 1: were surprised because they found no blood, not a bit

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Speaker 1: according to the police. But these should have been three

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Speaker 1: very bloody murders because they were caused by blunt force

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Speaker 1: trauma to the heads. The detectives told doctor Graves that

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Speaker 1: Eugene Bird had been very interested in his father's work

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Speaker 1: as the city physician, so would have known that an

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Speaker 1: object like an axe would have caused a massive amount

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Speaker 1: of blood loss. And so when doctor Graves heard all

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Speaker 1: of this, he revised his opinion about what had taken place.

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Speaker 1: Eugene had not strangled his wife and daughter with the handkerchiefs.

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Speaker 1: He had hit them each with an axe and then

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Speaker 1: quickly tied the cloths around the next to stop the

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Speaker 1: blood that was stripping down.

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Speaker 4: It was found later that it was not meant to

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Speaker 4: strangulate at all. It was meant to staunch the flow

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Speaker 4: of blood as he beat their brains in.

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Speaker 1: So this seems like someone who was pretty astute. For

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Speaker 1: somebody who can't get it together enough to get a job,

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Speaker 1: this seems kind of well planned. Yeah, was this planned

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Speaker 1: or does this seem like an act of passion.

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Speaker 4: Planned to a certain extent of his escape, of hiding

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Speaker 4: the bodies, of cleaning up after the bodies, all of

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Speaker 4: that seems extremely meticulous and not something that arose out

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Speaker 4: of an argument that Friday night.

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Speaker 1: That's a big question that I have. Was this an

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Speaker 1: act of passion or was it something that was planned?

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Speaker 1: It seems premeditated to me, and Jeremy Childs agrees. Because

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Speaker 1: of the handkerchiefs. Eugene had to act quickly to stop

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Speaker 1: the blood, so he must have been carrying them in

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Speaker 1: his pocket along with the acts.

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Speaker 2: This goes to the brutality, but also the premeditation is

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Speaker 2: they're found with linen or handkerchiefs tied very tightly around

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Speaker 2: their necks so that they wouldn't bleed as much. So

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Speaker 2: that the cleanup wouldn't be as bad. It is absolutely

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Speaker 2: maniacal to think that a father could do something like

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Speaker 2: that to his wife and his young children.

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Speaker 1: There were no doubts that Eugene Bert had murdered his

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Speaker 1: entire family. Who else could it be? Who else had

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Speaker 1: access to his house? Who else would Annie have let

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Speaker 1: inside in the middle of the night. But the evidence

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00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 1: so far was sir substantial if it went to court.

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Speaker 1: There were no witnesses, no fingerprints, and most importantly, no

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Speaker 1: murder weapon. The police searched the house and the property.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't find an axe, and Eugene Burt was in

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Speaker 1: the wind, but it seemed very clear to investigators what

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Speaker 1: the motive was. They surmised that Eugene Burt was a

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Speaker 1: troubled man before he married Annie and they had the girls.

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Speaker 1: He had tortured a bunny when he was just a boy.

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Speaker 1: He had thieved and lied and embezzled all from his

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Speaker 1: own brothers. The deaths of his parents had sent him

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Speaker 1: into despair for years. He was an excellent actor, a

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Speaker 1: man who masqueraded as a doting husband and father when

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Speaker 1: he was truly a monster, just waiting to release his depravity.

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Speaker 1: On his wife and children. But the truth might have

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Speaker 1: been much simpler. Eugene Bert might have suffered from a

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Speaker 1: mental ill, He might have suffered from stressors after the

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00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 1: death of his parents. He might have suffered from fear

290
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Speaker 1: of financial ruin or of prison. That was all likely true,

291
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Speaker 1: But throughout history people have suffered and they haven't killed

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Speaker 1: their wife and children. Eugene Burt was guilty of murder,

293
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Speaker 1: but would he go to prison for it or the gallows,

294
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: or would he go free? Eugene Bert fell into a

295
00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 1: category of killers that are now known as family annihilators.

296
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Speaker 1: These murderers are typically men. They kill their families but

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00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 1: not themselves, and their motives are often twisted, sometimes related

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00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 1: to finances or religion, or simply a desire to start over.

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00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,679
Speaker 1: Family annihilators are uncommon, so when they do come up

300
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 1: in the news, they make big headlines. Julie Norton comes

301
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 1: from Eugene's maternal side of the family. I asked her

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00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: why she thought people would take the lives of their children,

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00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 1: or their spouses or other family members, but not take

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Speaker 1: their own lives.

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Speaker 3: You know, mothers drive into a light with their children

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Speaker 3: in the car. It's hard to know when somebody has

307
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 3: it in their head they can't deal with a problem.

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Speaker 3: Two children, a wife that won't leave me alone. If

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Speaker 3: you've got that in your mind and it's a problem,

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Speaker 3: you know, who knows what you would do.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, there have been some very high profile

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Speaker 1: cases involving family annihilators. Here are two of them. In

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00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, accountant John List murdered his wife, their

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00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: three children, and his mother in New Jersey before vanishing

315
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,199
Speaker 1: for nearly eighteen years. He was having financial problems. He

316
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 1: feared that they would lose their eighteen room mansion, but

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00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 1: his family didn't know this. List also feared that his

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00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: family was straying from Christianity. He later claimed that he

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Speaker 1: murdered them so they could all be reunited in heaven,

320
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 1: but List had no intention to take his own life.

321
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: After covering up the murders, List moved to Colorado and remarried,

322
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Speaker 1: then started working for hn R Block. In nineteen eighty nine,

323
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Speaker 1: a former neighbor spotted him on America's Most Wanted after list.

324
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Speaker 1: Moved to Virginia after his conviction, List was sentenced to

325
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: five consecutive life terms. He died at age eighty three

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Speaker 1: in prison, still hoping to see his family in heaven.

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Speaker 1: More recently, a high profile case showed just how unsuspecting

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Speaker 1: some suspected killers can be. Friends and family thought that

329
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: Chris Watts was a committed husband and father, but secretly

330
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: he was having in a fair and his desire to

331
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Speaker 1: start a new life apparently took over. In August of

332
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, he strangled his wife, Sheanan, and then smothered

333
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Speaker 1: his daughter's four year old Bella and three year old Cisi.

334
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Speaker 1: Then he secluded them in oil tanks where he worked,

335
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: which sounds similar to what Eugene Burt did in his sistern.

336
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Speaker 1: At first, Chris Watts denied the murders. He even blamed

337
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: Shanan for killing the girls herself before he killed Shenan

338
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,239
Speaker 1: in anger. But finally Watts admitted to investigators with the

339
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 1: Colorado Bureau of Investigation that he was responsible for all

340
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Speaker 1: three deaths. When CBI investigators asked about the trigger, he

341
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: thought it was because Schanan never got along with his

342
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: family and he had a mistress.

343
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Speaker 7: He's wearing so.

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Speaker 2: Mad at Snana.

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Speaker 6: It was a part of it, Just this whole advanta stride.

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Speaker 8: That's all I think I can think of it right now,

347
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Speaker 8: because I mean there's no other reason. Really, it'll be

348
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 8: mad at her decisions. We took care of each other

349
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 8: their whole Latvoit ears it was just like.

350
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Speaker 6: A good relationship.

351
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Speaker 8: I mean, it's just like if I never met Nikki,

352
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 8: would iver haven't, you know, thought our relationship was bad?

353
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Speaker 6: I would not.

354
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Speaker 1: But Watts didn't just kill his wife. He murdered his

355
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: little girls. He strangled Shenan first at the house, but

356
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: then he drove Ceci and Bella to the oil site

357
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Speaker 1: where he would murder them and put them inside tanks.

358
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Speaker 1: When CBI agents asked why Watts killed his girls, Chris

359
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: Watts didn't have a clear answer.

360
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Speaker 9: Was it your intent the whole time you were taking

361
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Speaker 9: the girls out there that they were you were going

362
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Speaker 9: to do that to them?

363
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Speaker 6: Honestly? Like you said about the tanks, Yeah, like well

364
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Speaker 6: just I mean I just thought process all this. None

365
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 6: of that makes sense. I saw. I know you asked

366
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 6: Keep asking questions because it doesn't make sense.

367
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Speaker 9: You could have done it before you guys left and

368
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 9: not had him, you know, alive in a vaccine thinking

369
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 9: of been with Snana on in a vaccine.

370
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Speaker 6: Like how everything was going to happen. I don't know,

371
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 6: like why I had.

372
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Speaker 8: Man the bole trip out there. I mean, it's like

373
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Speaker 8: I was on like I wasn't thinking it was like,

374
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Speaker 8: it's okay in my mind right now I'm thinking back,

375
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 8: I'm like, I'm hoping that I wasn't like that I

376
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 8: wasn't coherent enough to make that decision to where I

377
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 8: knew I was going to kill my girls.

378
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Speaker 6: I was.

379
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 8: I'm just hoping that, you know, like, like no father

380
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 8: would want everyone to do anything that hears his blood flesh.

381
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 6: But I did that, and I just don't understand how

382
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 6: it happened.

383
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Speaker 1: Watts is now serving a life sentence. It's not clear

384
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: whether the murders were premeditated, but regardless, Watts certainly covered

385
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: them up, and so did John List And in eighteen

386
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Speaker 1: ninety six, there's evidence that Eugene Bert had committed pre

387
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Speaker 1: medita murder.

388
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: If it wasn't premeditated, then he was really quick on

389
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: his feet, especially the part about wrapping the kerchiefs around

390
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: their necks to keep the blood. That may have been

391
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: something that goes back to his father. Maybe he witnessed

392
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 2: some surgeries as a child and knew the process of

393
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 2: making a tourniquet properly.

394
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Speaker 1: More on that theory in a little bit. Personally, I

395
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: don't think Eugene was particularly quick on his feet or

396
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 1: a brilliant criminal mastermind. He was bright, and he was

397
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: a grifter, but I'm not sure that he would be

398
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: adept at improvising under pressure. He oftentimes let his emotions

399
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: take over his common sense, like when he loudly criticized

400
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: Catholicism to a family friend. Eugene Burt wasn't cool or calm,

401
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: but he did know how to plan very well when

402
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: it was required.

403
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: They also find out that he had mailed himself a

404
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 2: package a large box to Houston, Texas.

405
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: While the investigation in Austin, can continued, Houston police contacted

406
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: detectives because a large crate had shown up at the

407
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: train station that couldn't be delivered when no one came

408
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 1: to claim it. The police in Houston searched maps for

409
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: the address and it appeared to be a fake location.

410
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: The numbers weren't right, even the name of the street

411
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: wasn't right, and then they looked at the name on

412
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: the label after checking the latest census, that name wasn't

413
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: real either. What was going on Austin law enforcement had

414
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: alerted the larger cities in Texas that there was a

415
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: suspected murderer in the area. When Houston police realized that

416
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: the name and address were fake, they called Austin and

417
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: when Austin investigators received the crate, they used a crowbar

418
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 1: and pride open the box.

419
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 2: In that box basically everything that he had used to

420
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: commit the murders, including a hatchet, as well as the

421
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: the bloody sheets and clothing that he was wearing and

422
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 2: that they were in the area using to clean up

423
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: the mess in the bedrooms where the murders took place.

424
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: That's where all the blood went, on the sheets, on

425
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: his clothes and on their clothes. And in that box

426
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: was the murder weapon, the hatchet. That was the same

427
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: hatchet that Eugene used to chop wood in his yard.

428
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,199
Speaker 1: I hate the term smoking gun, but this was the

429
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: smoking gun. Experts could not determine if the blood on

430
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: the items in the crate came from a human or

431
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: an animal. That wasn't possible in the late eighteen hundreds.

432
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: That breakthrough would not happen until nineteen oh one, when

433
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: a German scientist helped solve a crime a carpenter had

434
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: been charged with murdering two young boys. He was convicted

435
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: when the scientist managed to build a test differentiating human

436
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: blood from that of sheep based on certain chemicals, and amazingly,

437
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: there's now a portable rapides that tells investigators at the

438
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: scene if the blood is human or animal. Researchers use

439
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: an infrared device to analyze samples directly, with no preparation needed,

440
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: and the method doesn't destroy the blood sample. The chemical

441
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: fingerprints of proteins, nucleic acids, and carbohydrates are different between

442
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: humans and animals, amazing In eighteen ninety two, the blood

443
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: on the items inside the crate was substantial enough to

444
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: cause suspicion that Eugene Bert had killed his wife Annie

445
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: and their two little girls. How could this happen in

446
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: a family that seemed loving, even if Eugene Burt did

447
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: feel immense pressure, even if he did have erratic behavior

448
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: and numerous stressors. Forensic psychiatrist doctor Christine Montrose says that

449
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: we all have the ability to kill, whether it's done

450
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: to protect ourselves or our families, or out of dust

451
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: operation or out of malice, and doctor Montrose believes that

452
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: all of us could be pushed to murder depending on

453
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: the circumstances.

454
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 7: I mean, this is the scariest thing. Like I think

455
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 7: if my kids were threatened in some dire way, I

456
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 7: like to think I would not be capable of killing

457
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 7: another person, But I think I could.

458
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: I agree I would too in an instant.

459
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 7: All human beings, I think, have the capacity, under the

460
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 7: right circumstances to act in ways that might really appall off.

461
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 7: Do I think that all human beings have the capacity

462
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 7: to carry out sadistic you know, murders of the kind

463
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 7: that you.

464
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 4: Dwell in. No.

465
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 7: But do I think that all of us, when stretched

466
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 7: to certain circumstances, have the capacity to do things that

467
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 7: we would really feel horrified and deny that we have

468
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 7: the capacity to do.

469
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I agree with her. But the big question for

470
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: me with this story is motive? Why the children because

471
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: they were witnesses? And why kill his wife? The CDC

472
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: reports that homicide is the fifth leading cause of death

473
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: for women between twenty and forty four. The majority of

474
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: those women are killed by former or current spouses or partners. Sadly,

475
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: Julie Norton is not at all surprised that Eugene murdered

476
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: his wife.

477
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: As soon as you've said that Anna Powers said something

478
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: to her mother. There are some motive there that we're

479
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 3: just not seeing. I don't know what it is. Didn't

480
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: cook dinner, write It's difficult to know. Anything can just

481
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 3: set you off in the most bizarre way.

482
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Domestic court judge Simple Mahultra agrees with Julia.

483
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 9: There really is no trigger, you know, And if you

484
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 9: talk to survivors, they will tell you I never knew

485
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 9: what I could or could not do to prevent the violence.

486
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 9: You know. I did all the things. I cleaned the kitchen,

487
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 9: I cooked, I took care of the kids, I worked,

488
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 9: I did all the things that I thought I needed

489
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 9: to do to keep this person happy. And still there

490
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 9: was violence.

491
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: And it didn't matter to the other person. There was

492
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: nothing to stop it.

493
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 9: And I think that that is indicative of the fact

494
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 9: that domestic violence is about power and control and not

495
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 9: necessarily something that the victim did or didn't do. There's

496
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 9: not really a trigger.

497
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: What's so difficult to accept for most of us is

498
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: that a father could murder his wife and children for

499
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: an innocuous reason. That virtually anything can set someone off.

500
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: Descendant Jeremy childs says he can't understand it either.

501
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: I can relate to having bad finances again, a fight

502
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: with a wife, that kind of thing, but that's where

503
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: it ends. Well, I don't she's not little anymore, but

504
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: I have daughter and a son, and so that's where

505
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: I stopped being able to relate to him. And so

506
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: that's when I think mental illness must be a part

507
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: of his story to an extent for him to take

508
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: it to this realm.

509
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: Back to looking at the history of mental health struggles

510
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: in his family. If there is evidence pointing to mental illness.

511
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: I would have to start with his father, the doctor

512
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: William Bert, because I really do think that Eugene Burt's

513
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: psychosis stems from his childhood and either some of the

514
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: things that he saw or possibly even participated in, and

515
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: I think it damaged him.

516
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: Jeremy is talking about Eugene's experience at the home of

517
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: the second to last victim of the Servant Girl Annihilator

518
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: when Eugene was a teenager.

519
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: During one of the investigations of one of the victims,

520
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: Eugene went with him to the murder scene and was

521
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: actually holding the murder weapon, this bloody axe, and that

522
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: had to have an impact on someone that young and impressionable,

523
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: and that probably wasn't the first time that he was

524
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: at a crime scene with his father witnessing something brutal

525
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: like that.

526
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: So now we're back to thinking that Eugene Bert might

527
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: have been affected by hearing about and then seeing those

528
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: brutal murders when he was just fifteen. Jeremy's mother, Patricia

529
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: agrees with.

530
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 10: Him there might have been an opportunity that Eugene would

531
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 10: have actually even been present near one of those bodies,

532
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 10: something that might have caused some urge to surface.

533
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: And now we're back to talking about premeditation. Did he

534
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: plan this or was this an active passion or were

535
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: the murders the result of mental health issues that went undiagnosed.

536
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: Shooting someone in the spur of the moment, I can

537
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: see why that might be just someone being a jerk,

538
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: you know, or being so desperate that they think they

539
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: need to do this in order to survive or whatever.

540
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: But for a personal you knife or a hatchet, or

541
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: strangulation or beating someone to death, that I think requires

542
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: a level of mental illness at the bare minimum, you know,

543
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: to be able to do that to another human despite

544
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 2: their pleas for salvation, despite their crying out for you

545
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: know that I think absolutely requires a modicum of mental illness.

546
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: Here's what's interesting. The psychiatrists that I spoke with said

547
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: that Eugene Burt might have had schizophrenia. He had incredible

548
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: bouts of paranoia around Catholicism, and while it's true that

549
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: many people in the eighteen hundreds despised Catholics, Eugene's anger

550
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: seemed excessive. Julie Norton is a descendant from Eugene's mother's line,

551
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: and she admits that there is mental illness in her family,

552
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: maybe more than in the average family. But Julie says

553
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: that a mental illness wasn't to blame for these murders.

554
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: He might have been mentally ill, but I doubt that

555
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: his acting mentally ill was actually what happened. That does

556
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: sound like he thought this out, He thought this through,

557
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: he thought about how to cover it up.

558
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 5: He had some knowledge of how to do that.

559
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: Where do you think he would have learned that.

560
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 5: Being around his father? That would be my guess.

561
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 3: I can't imagine why I have a sister with schizophrenia.

562
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 5: She's not dangerous or anything.

563
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 3: She gets just irrational more than anything. She will get

564
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: angry at me when I try to help her. Thin

565
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 3: said don't make any sense, but they aren't harmful, and

566
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 3: she would never cover it up, and she wouldn't remember

567
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: that she'd done it.

568
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: And I've heard from other experts that the violence due

569
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: to an ongoing mental illness is not usually focused on

570
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 1: one particular person. It can be anyone. So then it

571
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: would be unusual to plan a murder beforehand and then

572
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: cover it up. Something about this case reminds me a

573
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: bit about the story of Howard Pearson from season three

574
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: of tenfold More Wicked. In that season, twenty year old

575
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: Howard Pearson murdered his father and mother in a rural

576
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 1: area of Austin, Texas in the nineteen thirties. His father

577
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: was an associate Supreme Court judge, so it was covered

578
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: extensively by the media. Howard also showed signs of mental illness,

579
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: so he was sent to a mental health facility rather

580
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: than a prison. But Howard had also extensively planned the

581
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: murder of his parents. He gunned them down, ran over

582
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: his mother with the family's car, and then Howard covered

583
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: up their murders by shooting himself in the arm and

584
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: claiming that robbers had killed them. Can you murder someone

585
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: because of mental illness but also plan it before and after?

586
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: Most experts say no, But Patricia Childs has a theory

587
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: about why we do the things we do. Patricia is

588
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: in Eugene's mother's family tree. So we're looking at Cleo's

589
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: mental health history for answers to Eugene Burt's terrible decision,

590
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: but perhaps we should be instead looking at his father,

591
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: doctor William Burt.

592
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 10: I have a sense that we have not only physical DNA,

593
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 10: but that we have spiritual DNA, emotional DNA. That is

594
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 10: to say, I think that there are things that carry

595
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 10: generation to generation. I know that there's no maybe no

596
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 10: real way to prove that when everyone wants a physical

597
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 10: explanation and physical proof. But that's just a sense that

598
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 10: I have in having worked on so many various family

599
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 10: trees for people, starting them and working and then sitting

600
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 10: down with them, and you begin to see certain traits

601
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 10: that move generation to generation, and then you'll be going

602
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 10: back in time.

603
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: In the story about Howard Pearson, we found out that

604
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: his father had been abusive to the whole family, and

605
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,919
Speaker 1: that might have been a motive for why he killed him.

606
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: Patricia thinks that William Burt might hold some answers because

607
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: she thinks that violence doesn't come out of nowhere. Young

608
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: boys don't impale rabbits for no reason. We will definitely

609
00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: come back to this. But the question then on everyone's

610
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: mind was where is Eugene Burt. The last we heard

611
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: of him, he was on a train bound for Dallas.

612
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: Police had no photos of him. People in the eighteen

613
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: hundreds weren't required to carry any kind of nationalized identification card,

614
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: so investigators printed up more than one hundred flyers with

615
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: his full physical description and distributed them in post offices

616
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: across Texas. Would police ever find him or would Eugene

617
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: Burt simply vanish along with the motive for the murders

618
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: of the three people who had accepted and loved him

619
00:37:52,480 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: the most. On the next episode of tenfold War, wicked

620
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: on exactly right.

621
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: Bert had been seen the day before the killings in

622
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 4: the backyard dragging a burlap sack, and he bought the

623
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 4: hatchet at a hardware store a couple of days before.

624
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a horrific story. I don't think it's understandable.

625
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 3: It's clearly not logical. No logical person would do that today.

626
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 10: If somebody had an ex sitting around, you'd think wow,

627
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 10: a little bit hmm. You know.

628
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 9: I imagine that his motivation there was just to get

629
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 9: rid of any and all evidence and really just go

630
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 9: on with his life, thinking that he wouldn't face any

631
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 9: consequences if he were to murder everyone.

632
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: If you love a good, real ghost story, my new

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Speaker 1: also check out my new book All That Is Wicked.

639
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Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right tenfold war. Media production

640
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Natalie Rinn. Editors Jason Whaling,

641
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: David Fabello and Kate Winkler Dawson researcher Kate Winkler Dawson,

642
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork by Nick Toga.

643
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 1: Executive producers Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Daniel Kramer. Follow

644
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold war Wicked and

645
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: on Twitter at tenfold war and If you know of

646
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 1: a historical crime that could use some attention, especially if

647
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: it happened in your family, email us at info at

648
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Speaker 1: tenfold war wicked dot com.

649
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Speaker 4: H