Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Dave Pash Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Dave Pash, ESPN play by play announcer and
Speaker 1: voice of the Arizona Cardinals. Our guest today is Vance Joseph,
Speaker 1: in his third year as the defensive coordinator of the
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals after two years as the head coach of
Speaker 1: the Denver Broncos. Coming up, I'll ask Vance about his
Speaker 1: secondary Did he see Marco Wilson being this good as
Speaker 1: a rookie? What about Byron Murphy and him bursting onto
Speaker 1: the scene here in twenty twenty one, we'll discuss the
Speaker 1: growth of Isaiah Simmons and where Zaban Collins is at
Speaker 1: and his development. Also, Chandler Jones, the new Cardinals all
Speaker 1: time sack leader, where does he rank among the players
Speaker 1: that Vance Joseph has been around? And will Vance be
Speaker 1: a head coach again in twenty twenty two? All that
Speaker 1: and more coming up. We are brought to you by
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Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at pashpod for updates
Speaker 1: on upcoming guests on the Day Pash Podcast, as well
Speaker 1: as highlights from previous guests. Now here's today's guest, Cardinals
Speaker 1: defensive coordinator Vance Joseph So Vance. Before we get too
Speaker 1: deep into the details, I definitely want to do that
Speaker 1: give me an overall sense of how you would assess
Speaker 1: how your defense is playing this year. Well, thus four,
Speaker 1: I think we've been solid. You know. Obviously the numbers
Speaker 1: that were concern about its points allowed, I think right
Speaker 1: now with the defense on the field, it's about fifteen five.
Speaker 1: You know, That's that's pretty good. You know, in its
Speaker 1: day and age with the NFL football, you know, everyone's
Speaker 1: giving up points, everyone's going points. So our our entire
Speaker 1: offseason and our entire camp and our entire goals is
Speaker 1: to keep the points, you know, low, and that's that's
Speaker 1: that's winning football, you know, and right now that's happening
Speaker 1: it's not perfect, and every every week with growing we
Speaker 1: got a bunch of young guys playing. So um, it's
Speaker 1: always a work in progress when it comes to that,
Speaker 1: but it's forced over our product. It's it's decent right now.
Speaker 1: I'm curious how how you would assess what the strength
Speaker 1: of your defenses. To me, watching it kind of from
Speaker 1: a bird's eye view in the booth, it seems like
Speaker 1: your secondary is certainly a big part of that. The
Speaker 1: thing about that is like I didn't see Marco Wilson
Speaker 1: coming Byron Murphy even making the steps that he did.
Speaker 1: Did you see those things coming? And if so, when
Speaker 1: did you see it coming? I saw Murphy coming um
Speaker 1: this spring. He was different. His body was from his
Speaker 1: mindset was different. So I saw that progress. Obviously, he
Speaker 1: played a lot of football as a young guy, and
Speaker 1: he had some hard downs, you know, but he learned
Speaker 1: from it. And to have a young corner that plays
Speaker 1: inside and outside, that's that's hard to find. And right
Speaker 1: now he's mastering that, you know, and that that obviously
Speaker 1: makes his value, you know, huge and makes our defense better.
Speaker 1: With Marco Wilson, I wasn't sure, you know. We watched
Speaker 1: the tape obviously in college, and when you research his background,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be surprised. I mean he was he was
Speaker 1: a big time player in high school. He was teammates
Speaker 1: with Pats Hurtanum, the kid from Cleveland Swards. So I
Speaker 1: mean he's he's been around good players his entire life,
Speaker 1: and I mean he's he's he's been a good player.
Speaker 1: He was a freshman start at Florida, you know, for
Speaker 1: three years, so that that takes talent. You know, walk
Speaker 1: in that conference and the players a freshman versus all
Speaker 1: those Alabama first round picks. So when he's playing against
Speaker 1: these NFL guys, he's never overwhelmed because he's played against
Speaker 1: him already, you know, and when you track his background,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't be surprised. But drafting him in the fourth round,
Speaker 1: obviously having a day once stared at corner, that's that
Speaker 1: that's impressive by Steve and his staff to find a
Speaker 1: guy who can play that early, you know, with the
Speaker 1: football IQ and the courage and the confidence to play
Speaker 1: at a high level and overcome bad place. You know,
Speaker 1: he's done all those things. So it's been fun to
Speaker 1: watch him grow. What about your your young linebackers it's
Speaker 1: been fun to see the growth of Isaiah Simmons. Is
Speaker 1: that something that you know last year with no preseason games,
Speaker 1: how much of a killer was that for him? And
Speaker 1: when do you feel like he finally got comfortable with
Speaker 1: what he was seeing? That was awful for Isaiah. I
Speaker 1: mean he had no offseason and no training camp, you know,
Speaker 1: so the first time he even met with us in
Speaker 1: personal was in training camp, you know. And the having
Speaker 1: no games that was that was hard for him because
Speaker 1: in college he wasn't a screw down linebacker. I mean
Speaker 1: he was he was more of a hybrid safety outside
Speaker 1: backer type, you know. So when he came to us,
Speaker 1: he was he was playing more closer to the box
Speaker 1: and playing more linebacker stuff and that takes time, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think a about week eight or nine, you
Speaker 1: can see the growth with Isaiah. You know, he got comfortable,
Speaker 1: started making plays and kept the package really small for him.
Speaker 1: And now, man, I mean, he's getting better and better
Speaker 1: each week. He is still a young player, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean he's he's he's in his second year, but again,
Speaker 1: missing that time an off season and training camp. In
Speaker 1: those games, he's still a young player. So hopefully he
Speaker 1: can keep growing. Man with his physical tools and his
Speaker 1: football like you, he can be something different that the
Speaker 1: league has never seen, you know, and he's he wants
Speaker 1: to be that. He's working hard every single day and
Speaker 1: he can do a lot of things for your defenses.
Speaker 1: For its covering tight ends, uh, sitting at edges, outside backer,
Speaker 1: you know, closing the middle as a middle safety, but blitzing,
Speaker 1: you know, playing in space. I mean, so his his skills. Second,
Speaker 1: it's it's unique and he can be a different type
Speaker 1: of player you know that we've never seen in this league,
Speaker 1: you know. And as far as Zaven, you know, Xavan's
Speaker 1: in the same boat. You know, he's he's trying to
Speaker 1: figure out Mike Backer. You know, that's that's being a
Speaker 1: quarterback up of the entire defense and that takes time,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's he's working at it and he's
Speaker 1: getting better and better each week. He's nicked up right now.
Speaker 1: That that's hurt Zaving as far as missing practice time,
Speaker 1: but as far as the person and the player, he's
Speaker 1: going to be fine. What is it about a player
Speaker 1: like Jordan Hicks when you're a defensive coordinator that there's
Speaker 1: a comfort there for you. I assume when you've got
Speaker 1: somebody that knows what he's doing and knows what other
Speaker 1: guys are doing, you know, where does that factor in
Speaker 1: terms of like what you're looking at in terms of
Speaker 1: playing time and reps? Absolutely, I mean he is. He
Speaker 1: is my game manager, you know. I mean you have
Speaker 1: to have a player on the field that sees the
Speaker 1: game like you, you know, who can make all the
Speaker 1: audibles and make all the checks and help a lot
Speaker 1: of guys get lined up. And that comes with experience,
Speaker 1: you know. And Jordan's been with us now for three
Speaker 1: seasons and I mean he's played he's played over probably
Speaker 1: you know, two thousand reps in his defense, you know,
Speaker 1: so he understands the defense. And weekly in the NFL now,
Speaker 1: the game's become so complicated, these offenses, I mean every week,
Speaker 1: they change, they evolve weekly, and you have to have
Speaker 1: a guy who can who can unwind the formations, who
Speaker 1: can unwind the checks because if you if if you
Speaker 1: can adjust on game day, you know from the huddle,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be hard to play great defense, you know,
Speaker 1: But havn't having Hicksie who understands the concepts. He can
Speaker 1: he can help us adjust you know, play play by play,
Speaker 1: and that's so important, you know, doing his NFL right now,
Speaker 1: you're talking about how offenses adjust and how complex they are.
Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you heard what Kyle Shanahan said after the game. He
Speaker 1: said he was shocked at what happened because he thought
Speaker 1: they had such a great week of practice and obviously
Speaker 1: you guys messed with their heads. I mean, they couldn't
Speaker 1: do much offensively. They had two really big plays, and
Speaker 1: both big plays they fumble the ball. Sure, so what
Speaker 1: did you guys do to them to kind of get
Speaker 1: them off schedule? I think every every week, you know,
Speaker 1: we have a plan to take away what the offense
Speaker 1: does best. You know, and obviously Shanahan and the Niners
Speaker 1: are run first offense. You know, we thought, if we
Speaker 1: can just kill a run game and forced him to
Speaker 1: throw the ball, you know, more often than he wanted to,
Speaker 1: it can it can. It can lead to takeaways and
Speaker 1: sacks and those things. And I warned the staff, I said, listen, guys,
Speaker 1: you know we're going to be in this heavy package
Speaker 1: early and he's gonna throw the football and he may
Speaker 1: make some plays, you know, but let's stay with it,
Speaker 1: you know, Let's let's make them do what they're not
Speaker 1: good at doing, and that's throwing them ball thirty forty
Speaker 1: plus times, you know, And and it worked out for us,
Speaker 1: and some of sometimes it didn't look pretty. They made
Speaker 1: some plays in the past game, but we knew if
Speaker 1: we stuck to it that we can make some plays
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, take the ball away and
Speaker 1: sack the quarterback a bunch of times. And that's what happened.
Speaker 1: But I think every every game we have a plan
Speaker 1: to obviously take away with the offense does best, you know,
Speaker 1: like Green Bay they ran the ball some. But the
Speaker 1: plan that night wasn't to make Aaron Rodgers one dimensional
Speaker 1: and pass every down. You know. So every every every
Speaker 1: game is so different, you know. And obviously with Aaron
Speaker 1: Rodgers type or Tom Brady type, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: cat and mouse game to absorb some runs, you know,
Speaker 1: and and kind of you know, win some first downs
Speaker 1: with shell and some rickson and put him in second
Speaker 1: and long. You know. But obviously, you know, Sunday it's different,
Speaker 1: different plan. It was stopped to run first at any
Speaker 1: cost and make them throw, and it worked out for us.
Speaker 1: But you know that, and that in my opinion, it's
Speaker 1: what our defense that's unwell all year, you know, every
Speaker 1: every game with our staff and myself, you know, having
Speaker 1: having a plan to go into the game and to
Speaker 1: take away what they do best. You know. Week one,
Speaker 1: Tennessee it was run first, you know, and our our
Speaker 1: plan was set that way. We go to Cleveland, it
Speaker 1: was run first, Our plan was set that way. So
Speaker 1: we've had three games where we faced run first offenses,
Speaker 1: and so far it's worked out. And I was Tennessee
Speaker 1: and I was Cleveland, and I was Sam Fran on Sunday.
Speaker 1: So you talked about the cat and mouse game. I
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting because so I do in college
Speaker 1: game every week for at ESPN ABC. We got Notre
Speaker 1: Dame Virginia this week, you got two veteran quarterbacks. But
Speaker 1: I still feel like in college it's coach versus coach.
Speaker 1: How much in the NFL is it coach versus quarterback,
Speaker 1: meaning it's cat mouse between you and Aaron Rodgers, or
Speaker 1: you and Tom Brady or you in this week, Sam Darnold.
Speaker 1: Now maybe with younger quarterbacks it's more coach on coach,
Speaker 1: But how much is it like you're trying Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: is trying to think about what you're going to do
Speaker 1: based on your tendencies when he knows you and watching you,
Speaker 1: and you're trying to figure out kind of exactly, you know,
Speaker 1: how their offense goes based on their quarterback. Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: think that's huge on Sundays. It's it's always to QB
Speaker 1: versus to coach, you know, because the next move and
Speaker 1: to dictate, you know, playing defense in in this league,
Speaker 1: you have to make them one dimensional either way, you know,
Speaker 1: and the best defense over times have always dictated to
Speaker 1: the offense. If you don't dictate to the offense, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can't get them stopped, you know. So you know,
Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, those guys, I mean you have
Speaker 1: you have to take something away, you know, to make
Speaker 1: them one dimensional either way, running or passing of football.
Speaker 1: If you don't, you know, if you're just trying to
Speaker 1: play formations and playing plays, man, you can't survive. It's
Speaker 1: it's too many concepts. It's too many plays to practice
Speaker 1: and to uh, you know, to defend. You know. But
Speaker 1: the the cat and mouse game from the coach to
Speaker 1: the quarterback and obviously the players performing and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: putting the plan in place, you know, pre pre snap looks,
Speaker 1: post snap looks. That's so critical. You know. With Aaron Rodgers,
Speaker 1: our our plan was to obviously give him a pre
Speaker 1: snap look and when the ball snap changed the look
Speaker 1: and it worked a couple of times. You know. Obviously
Speaker 1: we had some run game issues. We're more tackling than anything.
Speaker 1: But the plan was solid. We just didn't tackle well enough.
Speaker 1: And obviously, uh, you know, we had some short fields
Speaker 1: there and they made some plays. But it's always that
Speaker 1: game on Sundays. And you know, uh, my first one
Speaker 1: in the league with Mike Nolan, I mean he was
Speaker 1: he was really a bright guy. He came out of
Speaker 1: Baltimore with those guys, with Ray Lewis and those guys,
Speaker 1: and he would always talk about playing a quarterback, you know,
Speaker 1: not not worrying about the big time receiver or the
Speaker 1: big time back. It was always the plan was for
Speaker 1: the quarterback, and and and and the receivers were excess,
Speaker 1: the backs were excess, but the plan that's where started.
Speaker 1: You know, how do you make the quarterback flinch? You know,
Speaker 1: how do you bly on the quarterback with layers of
Speaker 1: coverage that was always his first call of duty and
Speaker 1: game plan meetings. And that's right, because that guy is
Speaker 1: so important to you know, win in losing games. If
Speaker 1: you don't take care of the quarterback man, you can't
Speaker 1: win in this league from from a defensive perspective. So
Speaker 1: with that said, on game day, how much obviously you
Speaker 1: have a plan and you're talking with your other coaches,
Speaker 1: But how much are you adjusting on the fly? How
Speaker 1: much is it feel based on how you when you
Speaker 1: look at a certain situation, you know, And I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's the same for every decordinator or is
Speaker 1: it difference. Some guys go strictly by feel, and I know,
Speaker 1: like it's a different level Mike Leach. There's no playbuff
Speaker 1: it's just all rights, not saying you're doing that. How
Speaker 1: much how much of what you do is okay? You know?
Speaker 1: And I had the plan going in it's not working. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change it right now, or maybe I'll change
Speaker 1: it for a little bit and see if this works. Well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's fair. I mean, you have
Speaker 1: a plan to go into the game, and obviously the
Speaker 1: first fifteen plays for the offense, that's usually their best plays.
Speaker 1: You know, if the plans working, then you have a
Speaker 1: good plan. You know, if it's not. If it's not working,
Speaker 1: you have to adjust quickly. I mean, you can't wait
Speaker 1: to half time to make adjustments and you're down by
Speaker 1: three scores. And that's one thing our staff, man, it's
Speaker 1: done a great job with it's making adjustments, especially at halftime.
Speaker 1: I think a second half. As far as our numbers,
Speaker 1: they get better in the second half, as far as
Speaker 1: yard is in points, you know, And that's that's having
Speaker 1: a great staff. That's having a lot of players who understand,
Speaker 1: you know, our scheme, so we can adjust. Want to
Speaker 1: fly without practicing certain things. But you have to be
Speaker 1: able to adjust, you know, especially if it's not working.
Speaker 1: You know that that Minnesota game that force us to
Speaker 1: adjust the first the first court and a half, man,
Speaker 1: I mean they were ripping us in a run game,
Speaker 1: in a plex and pass what's not being stopped And
Speaker 1: we got the halftime and and turned it right. I
Speaker 1: mean they rushed for like thirty five yards in the
Speaker 1: second half and scored three points. You know, So this
Speaker 1: league is a it's a league of adjusting. If you
Speaker 1: don't adjust, you know, to that guy having a great plan. Man,
Speaker 1: you can't you can't obviously finish game. So it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, some of its feel on a run, but
Speaker 1: once you figure out what's hurting you, you have to
Speaker 1: have answers in your plan to get it stopped immediately.
Speaker 1: If you don't, you can't win. Chandler Jones just became
Speaker 1: the all time sack leader in Cardinal's history. Where does
Speaker 1: he rank? I mean, you've coached yea great players, You've
Speaker 1: seen great players. You were in the NFL as a
Speaker 1: player for a couple of years, so I mean you've
Speaker 1: been around great players for twenty five years in this league.
Speaker 1: Where does he rank? I'm not saying you have the
Speaker 1: list of number one and number five, but is he
Speaker 1: up there the among the best that you've ever coached
Speaker 1: or ever seen at this level? Absolutely As a pass rusher,
Speaker 1: I mean, Chan's unique, you know, and uh, when you
Speaker 1: when you watch Chan play, I mean, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a different style of pass rushing. It's a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a tall, long guy with with with jinkie and
Speaker 1: kind of funny movements. You know that works on guys.
Speaker 1: But it's a plan to it. I mean and he
Speaker 1: studies pass rushing and um, you know, it's it's not hope,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a plan and he works his moves.
Speaker 1: He he takes the opponents you know, weekly and spends
Speaker 1: hours and hours on watching tackles sets, you know, so
Speaker 1: he has a plan of going a game with And
Speaker 1: you can't be great at something in this league if
Speaker 1: you're not working at it. You know, it's dev The
Speaker 1: physical twos obviously help you, you know, but most of
Speaker 1: the great players, many have they have a great plan
Speaker 1: going into games and and he's no different. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, if you get him one on one with
Speaker 1: most NFL tackles, he's gonna win his share. And that's
Speaker 1: what he's good at, you know. And as far as
Speaker 1: Russia's coach von Miller Off, coach camera Wake all those guys,
Speaker 1: and I've been around d Ware, I mean he is,
Speaker 1: he is up there with those guys because he can
Speaker 1: win one on ones consistently, and if you don't have
Speaker 1: a plan for Tamla Jones, he can he can wreck
Speaker 1: the game. And that's what most great players do. They
Speaker 1: wreck the game if you don't have comfort those guys
Speaker 1: and he can do those things. We've seen now two
Speaker 1: clear examples of how well the operation is running for
Speaker 1: you guys, Cleveland and then last week where you're down coaches.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's never happened before. Now with COVID, there's
Speaker 1: coaches who aren't there. You obviously were the interim coach
Speaker 1: for the Cleveland game, and then you know Jeff Rogers
Speaker 1: isn't available for this game. I know that impacts everybody.
Speaker 1: So I guess my question is the dynamic must be
Speaker 1: really good on the staff. What's it like between you
Speaker 1: and Cliff? How involved is he and what you guys
Speaker 1: are doing and how much are you talking? On game day? Right?
Speaker 1: We talk constantly, you know, I've during a week, you know,
Speaker 1: him and I talk about, you know, how to win
Speaker 1: a game together, you know, And every week it's different,
Speaker 1: you know. We all have weeks where the pressure falls
Speaker 1: on one side of the ball, you know, or even
Speaker 1: on Jeff, you know. So we have meetings on Thursday
Speaker 1: Fridays and just just talk about how to win this game,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, if I have to, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, play fast or to give him more possessions,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's that's obviously a big deal, you know,
Speaker 1: if our offense is going thirty points a game, you know,
Speaker 1: so if I can't get him off the field quickly,
Speaker 1: that kills our offense, you know. So we have a
Speaker 1: plan sometime to Hey, man, if I'm not getting him
Speaker 1: stop quicker quick quickly, I'm going to get aggressive, you know.
Speaker 1: So he's going to score fast. I'm getting it back fast,
Speaker 1: you know. But those things we got to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, when we first came here. You know, I
Speaker 1: would I would always go to coach and say, look, man,
Speaker 1: I mean this offense you're running, I mean, it's it
Speaker 1: is fast paced, you know. So for me to you know,
Speaker 1: play to our strengths and play to your strengths of
Speaker 1: the offense, and I gotta match that, you know. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna be up temple fast paced defense.
Speaker 1: Also and again you know, my goal is to obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, have three and outs, you know, or take
Speaker 1: the ball away. If they're gonna score, they're gonna score quickly,
Speaker 1: right and and get you in college the ball back quicker,
Speaker 1: you know, quickly enough to have more possessions. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to go on fifteen you know,
Speaker 1: fifteen twenty play drives. You know that happened against Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Against Green Bay, we had two drives where it was
Speaker 1: too long, you know, and uh, you know, not tackling
Speaker 1: and and and not win the third downs that kills
Speaker 1: our offense. You know. So just just knowing how you know,
Speaker 1: how this team's constructed and how we win, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: affects everyone, you know. So with with thirty points being
Speaker 1: scored a game, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna call it aggressive,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna take the ball away from Cliff
Speaker 1: and if it's getting too long and know, I'm going
Speaker 1: to open a well and blitz because now you know, hey,
Speaker 1: if he's going to score, let him score in six plays,
Speaker 1: not in twelve. You know, Let's get get the ball
Speaker 1: back to the Cliffs so he can score more points
Speaker 1: and we can win games together. So that's always being
Speaker 1: talked about in the building. Have you noticed a difference
Speaker 1: at all in Cliff's personality coming out more? I bring
Speaker 1: that up because I think I think I know the answer,
Speaker 1: but I had You know, I've known Cliff for a
Speaker 1: while doing going back to when he was even at
Speaker 1: Houston doing some of the games, and then when Manzelle
Speaker 1: was at A and M and I had two Texas
Speaker 1: Tech games recently. Cliff doesn't want to talk to me
Speaker 1: because they were against Texas and Oklahoma and they smoked
Speaker 1: in both games. But it was interesting. A lot of
Speaker 1: the folks at Texas Tech were saying, because I said,
Speaker 1: you know, Cliff's got an edge this year as personality
Speaker 1: has really come out, and the Texas Tech people are
Speaker 1: saying that's how Cliff was here that maybe it just
Speaker 1: was you know, adjusting to the NFL, not overstepping your
Speaker 1: bounds kind of you know, feeling things out. Have you
Speaker 1: noticed a difference this year and Cliff, well, you know,
Speaker 1: he's always had a swagger and an edge to him,
Speaker 1: you know, but it's you know, it's it's good to win,
Speaker 1: and it's good to see your work, you know, come
Speaker 1: from you know, you know it'll come to the forefront
Speaker 1: and it's working. You know that that gives you confidence,
Speaker 1: you know, And um, I think most young coaches come
Speaker 1: in this league, as as as head coaches especially, and
Speaker 1: you have to you know, you have to change who
Speaker 1: you are. You don't have to change who you are,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean you can you can be yourself
Speaker 1: and still be a great NFL coach has been proven
Speaker 1: over the years and Rex Ryan and Mike thom and
Speaker 1: I mean they got huge personality, Sean McVeigh, you know,
Speaker 1: so you can be yourself and still do a good
Speaker 1: job and uh, you know, be excited on the sideline
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, simply you know, and enjoy
Speaker 1: the game, you know, and not have to be this
Speaker 1: this stoic you know, straight up, button up guy on
Speaker 1: the sideline and that's not football, you know. So I
Speaker 1: it's it's fun to watch him be himself. You know,
Speaker 1: it's fun to you know, watch his team win and
Speaker 1: you know, went through all kinds of adversity, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's uh, it's it's been three years in the works.
Speaker 1: And I would always tell Cliff, I said, man, one day,
Speaker 1: it's going to be the greatest job they've ever seen.
Speaker 1: You know. We just got to hang in there and
Speaker 1: keep coaching these guys. And it takes time in this
Speaker 1: league to to flip it, you know. And it's it's
Speaker 1: fun to watch our young guys play so well, it's
Speaker 1: fun to watch Kyler in offense, you know, uh, you
Speaker 1: know score so many points each week. So you know
Speaker 1: what we talked about three years ago is finally happening,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, obviously it's it's it's hard to
Speaker 1: stay here, but it's also fun to watch it happen, man,
Speaker 1: and hopefully it gets better and better. I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought that up, because you know, I've said many times that,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Michael Bidwill deserves credit for being
Speaker 1: patience and a lot of owners aren't patient. They were
Speaker 1: not patient with you in Denver. They didn't give you time.
Speaker 1: You've got two years, and you know, I'm curious as
Speaker 1: you look back on that experience because I think, if
Speaker 1: things keep going well, you're going to have another chance.
Speaker 1: I hope you do. You deserve it. I believe you
Speaker 1: deserve another chance to be a head coach. So what
Speaker 1: did you learn from that experience that you think has
Speaker 1: helped you so that when the next one comes around,
Speaker 1: you'll be better prepared, but have a chance it's successful
Speaker 1: and staying there longer. I think in this league, obviously
Speaker 1: you know it's going to be four to five six
Speaker 1: jobs a year because the demand for winning is uh, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know high, you know, and the time they used
Speaker 1: to give you to flip teams, it's gone. You know,
Speaker 1: so you know you have three years probably max, to
Speaker 1: make huge improvement to show the owner that year heading
Speaker 1: in the right direction, you know. And uh, I think
Speaker 1: the Denver experiences just taught me a couple of things
Speaker 1: about you know, um obviously as a head coach, you know,
Speaker 1: being involved with everything and trying to fix it all,
Speaker 1: you know, so you can survive and have time to
Speaker 1: fix it. You know, if you don't make enough progress
Speaker 1: and and in your second year, especially in all three phases,
Speaker 1: you know, you won't have time to fix it, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think you know as a as a guy
Speaker 1: who's gone through that, and now now you understand that
Speaker 1: you have to figure out how to fix it, especially
Speaker 1: an offseason right and when it's when it's player picking
Speaker 1: season and having a quarterback and having those pieces that
Speaker 1: that you need to flip your team into improve. You
Speaker 1: got to get it done right. You have to get
Speaker 1: it done. And you know, once once you have your
Speaker 1: team said and you're moving forward and you don't have
Speaker 1: those pieces, man, it's impossible in this league to improve
Speaker 1: and to move on and to try to find an
Speaker 1: identity with your team if you don't have a quarterback,
Speaker 1: you know, are offensive line. So the player picking season
Speaker 1: is so critical, you know, to you changing the culture,
Speaker 1: because you won't change the culture without winning. You know,
Speaker 1: you can, you can be a great coach and you
Speaker 1: can preach the right things and coach the right things. Man,
Speaker 1: but if you can't win and have a winning product,
Speaker 1: it's hard to convince anyone around you, the city, the owner,
Speaker 1: the players, the building that you're the right guy if
Speaker 1: you're not winning, you know, And it's been a number
Speaker 1: of great head coaches that on that first chances it
Speaker 1: didn't work, you know. And it's a it's a players league,
Speaker 1: it really is. And you have to have the right
Speaker 1: pieces first to to have a chance to coach and
Speaker 1: to build culture and ability winning culture. You know. And
Speaker 1: I and I think it's a young head coach. You
Speaker 1: come in and you think, boy, you know, I'm with
Speaker 1: I'm with these experienced gms and experienced scouts. But you
Speaker 1: have to have a voice in the players. You have
Speaker 1: to have a voice in what you need for your
Speaker 1: systems to work, you know. And when you're a young
Speaker 1: head coach, it's your first time, you kind of defer
Speaker 1: some of those things because you don't want to like,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean that's the GM and that's his job,
Speaker 1: that's the scouts job. But really a false back on you,
Speaker 1: you know, so you have to have a voice and
Speaker 1: in the player of picking season to have a chance
Speaker 1: to improve enough to keep your job so you can
Speaker 1: fix it. And we all know it's ultimately about the quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's about your best players at your best position. I
Speaker 1: work with Jeff Van Gundi on NBA games. Last year
Speaker 1: we were stuck doing games from our houses, so we
Speaker 1: had like a backdrop behind us of books and things
Speaker 1: on our shelves, and Jeff has this huge picture of
Speaker 1: Patrick Ewing, right, So why he would always say Tricking
Speaker 1: built my house, Like I have this house because of
Speaker 1: Patrick Hewing, not because how good a coach I was,
Speaker 1: but because of Patrick Ewings, Right. So, as you know,
Speaker 1: down the road get opportunities, do you feel like you're
Speaker 1: in a position where you can be picky because you
Speaker 1: don't want to just take a job if there's not
Speaker 1: a quarterback in place, or like you said, if player
Speaker 1: picking season has not gone well for that organization. Right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm to the point in my life where
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm pretty set, you know, as as far
Speaker 1: as you know, my job here. I love living here,
Speaker 1: My family love living here. I have a thunders a
Speaker 1: freshman at Brophy, you know, and you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I would like him to finish high school at one school.
Speaker 1: My daughter Natalie went to three high schools, you know.
Speaker 1: But it took that to obviously get me the Denver
Speaker 1: job and moving and having success and moving on and
Speaker 1: moving on, and obviously, you know, for her, that wasn't
Speaker 1: a great experience in high school. But she's she's fine
Speaker 1: for it. She's at USC as a junior in a
Speaker 1: journalism and she's a steady kid, and she's she's bright
Speaker 1: and smart and she can adjust. But um, I have
Speaker 1: great job here, you know. So I'm not going to
Speaker 1: jump the first opportunity if it happens to take a
Speaker 1: you know, a job that I can't see myself fixing
Speaker 1: it quick enough to shoot it. You know. My goal
Speaker 1: wasn't to be a head coach. It was to be
Speaker 1: a coach for a long time, you know. And sometimes again,
Speaker 1: young guys, I mean, you get the job and once
Speaker 1: you get it and it gets hard. Man, Well you
Speaker 1: know I've been a head coach. I'm done. That's not
Speaker 1: my goal. You know, my goal is to be a
Speaker 1: head coach for a long time, you know, So the
Speaker 1: next job I take, if I have a chance to
Speaker 1: take one, it's got to be the right job. And
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's that's that's the way I
Speaker 1: should be thinking, you know, being my second chance, because
Speaker 1: you know, if you get two chances, man, that's it.
Speaker 1: You know, you won't get three probably, So my next
Speaker 1: one's got to be the right one. And I was
Speaker 1: reading something about Pete Carroll about three weeks ago and
Speaker 1: he mentioned Russell. He goes, you know, you know, Russell
Speaker 1: Russell has kept me in his job for a long time.
Speaker 1: You know. And when you have a guy like a
Speaker 1: Russell or Kyler, man, I mean you can really have
Speaker 1: a vision and to build around those guys. That piece,
Speaker 1: that piece is so important to football teams, right. If
Speaker 1: you don't have that piece, it's it's tough to have
Speaker 1: a vision for a football team without that one piece
Speaker 1: because you're always searching for that piece and you're always
Speaker 1: gambling and sacrificing and using resources that you shouldn't be
Speaker 1: using to trying to find that piece. And if you
Speaker 1: don't find it, man, it doesn't happen. I mean, you
Speaker 1: go back on every every team that's won a big game,
Speaker 1: it's been very few who know who didn't have a
Speaker 1: franchise quarterback. It's been done before. It's been done before, right,
Speaker 1: the Ravens did it with the great defense. I think
Speaker 1: Tampa did it with Brad Johnson who was a good,
Speaker 1: good quarterback. But it's it's rare, especially in this NFL
Speaker 1: is so different with the rules and the points being scored,
Speaker 1: that that spot has to be it has to be
Speaker 1: filled and that's the only way in my opinion. And
Speaker 1: you can have a vision for a team if if,
Speaker 1: if that quarterback spot it is the right guy, and
Speaker 1: you can simply build around it and have time and
Speaker 1: resource to fix it around that guy. If not, it's
Speaker 1: a it's an uphill battle. Last couple because I know
Speaker 1: you get a run. I'm curious about when you got
Speaker 1: the coaching bug, because you were a player and you
Speaker 1: played in the NFL for a couple of years. When
Speaker 1: did it start? And then who were some of your
Speaker 1: influences along the way. That's an awesome question, man, I
Speaker 1: was you know, I only played about two and a
Speaker 1: half two and a half years on paper, and Gary
Speaker 1: Burnett was my quarterback coaching college. And he was at
Speaker 1: Northwestern doing a great job, and he took the Colorado job,
Speaker 1: and he was back in town and Boulder, and I
Speaker 1: was living in denver Nebroncos just released me, and I
Speaker 1: was just doing some sports insurance work out in New York,
Speaker 1: just trying to find my second career, you know. And
Speaker 1: I didn't want to coach because you know when when
Speaker 1: when players are done playing and it's not you know,
Speaker 1: on your terms, you kind of like, you know, this coaching,
Speaker 1: this football, I'm done for a while and need a
Speaker 1: break from football. But he called me up. He said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know when I coached you, you know, you had
Speaker 1: a coaching bug till you And I said really, he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he said, just come down and spend a day with
Speaker 1: us on a Saturday, you know, doing spring ball and
Speaker 1: see if you're like it or not. So I went
Speaker 1: down and hung with coach for a day, and and uh,
Speaker 1: you know it, that feeling came back again, you know,
Speaker 1: just just just a young guys running around and the
Speaker 1: game of football and watching guys practice and learning and
Speaker 1: watching guys teach. Man that buck came back. And I
Speaker 1: went into that spring as a GA you know, with
Speaker 1: coach at Colorado and I gad for a year and
Speaker 1: a half and got a full time job with Waomi
Speaker 1: for a spring and went back to Colorado as a
Speaker 1: secondary coach for like three seasons. So that's where I started.
Speaker 1: And it was all coach Barnett just getting me back
Speaker 1: into football because he saw theming me as a player
Speaker 1: that I would be a great coach and it worked
Speaker 1: out and from there I spent a you know, most
Speaker 1: of my NFL career with Sam Fran, with Mike Nolan,
Speaker 1: who was a hell of a hell of a head coach, man,
Speaker 1: hell of head coach. With Mike Singletary also, you know,
Speaker 1: who's obviously a great leader and a great player in
Speaker 1: this league for a long time. So between Gary Barnett
Speaker 1: and Mike Nolan, Mike Singletary, Billy Davis was my coordinator
Speaker 1: and uh in San Fran, great Manusky. Leaving those guys
Speaker 1: and going with Wade Phillips, that was that was obvias,
Speaker 1: A great move for me and a great experience being
Speaker 1: around Wade for four years. I mean he is he
Speaker 1: is a mastermind that's never had a bad day in life.
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't matter if we're down by fifty
Speaker 1: or by fifty, I mean, he is still the same guy.
Speaker 1: And that's that's uh, that's one guy that I kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of you know, take my coaching approach
Speaker 1: from that, you know, just just fix it, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean he would he would always say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's plenty of problem pointers. You know, let's be
Speaker 1: problem solvers. And he was right about that. That's coaching, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, anyone can see the issue, but let's let's
Speaker 1: solve the problem. And he was so good with players.
Speaker 1: Players love playing for him because he kept their lives simple.
Speaker 1: He was fair, he was honest, he kept their life simple,
Speaker 1: and you know, on a on a daily basis, this
Speaker 1: guy never had a bad day. And that was you know,
Speaker 1: you know, players and coaches love working with Wade because
Speaker 1: he was exactly the same every single day. And I
Speaker 1: leaving Wade, I went with Marvin Lewis, you know, who
Speaker 1: was incenseive for his fourteen season when I joined him.
Speaker 1: So just learn about longevity and how to build a
Speaker 1: program and and and to kind of hang in there
Speaker 1: when when bad times are happening, and to get to
Speaker 1: that thirteen fourteen season that was That was obviously the
Speaker 1: great experience being with Marvin and his staff and Sinci
Speaker 1: and from there going with Adam Gays in Miami as
Speaker 1: a young head coach and watching him go through the
Speaker 1: up and downs, and it's it's all. It's all one book,
Speaker 1: you know, and it obviously helps you NAVI get this league,
Speaker 1: which is a which is an awesome league. It's an
Speaker 1: awesome job, but it does have some some hard parts
Speaker 1: to it that you have to navigate to us stay
Speaker 1: alive in it. Well, it's all let you here and
Speaker 1: we gotta let you go. But I'm really grateful for
Speaker 1: you spending some time VJ. And I hope, for a
Speaker 1: lot of reasons the Cardinals keep winning. But I also
Speaker 1: hope that that leads to you being in a position
Speaker 1: where you can choose whether to continue here or be
Speaker 1: a head coach again, because I think you certainly deserve it.
Speaker 1: So I appreciate the time. Man. Thank you. Bro Alright,
Speaker 1: great conversation with Cardinals defensive coordinator Vance Joseph. He has
Speaker 1: just some awesome tales on Marco Wilson and his development,
Speaker 1: and also Byron Murphy and Isaiah Simmons, two other young
Speaker 1: guys that have really exploded onto the scene here in
Speaker 1: two twenty one plus Chandler Jones, who became the old
Speaker 1: time sack leader. Vance had some great thoughts and where
Speaker 1: he ranks among some of the best players Vans has
Speaker 1: seen or coached, including von Miller. But the thing that
Speaker 1: stood out to me the most was talking about the
Speaker 1: next head coaching opportunity. As a two year head coach
Speaker 1: with the Denver Broncos, he did not get a lot
Speaker 1: of time to build it, and he knows you're probably
Speaker 1: not going to get a third chance to be a
Speaker 1: head coach, so you better be patient and selective if
Speaker 1: and when you get that second opportunity. And I firmly
Speaker 1: believe he is going to have another chance to be
Speaker 1: a head coach. But he loves Arizona. He loves working
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals, his family loves Arizona, so he can
Speaker 1: be selective and patient. There's a chance Vans will be
Speaker 1: a head coach in twenty twenty two for another team
Speaker 1: in the National Football League, but there's also a great
Speaker 1: chance he'll continue to be the Cardinals defensive coordinator. You
Speaker 1: can make the case as well as the Cardinals offense
Speaker 1: has played all year and as much as Kyler Murray
Speaker 1: is in the thick of the MVP conversation, it's the
Speaker 1: defense that stands out above everything else is the biggest
Speaker 1: reason why the Cardinals are where they are and why
Speaker 1: they are a legit Super Bowl contender. We are presented
Speaker 1: by bet MGM, the official sports betting partner of the
Speaker 1: Arizona Cardinals and Hila River Hotels and Casinos. You can
Speaker 1: also follow us on Twitter at Pash Pod. The Cardinals
Speaker 1: play the Panthers on Sunday, and then we'll talk to
Speaker 1: you next week on The Dave Pash Podcast.