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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frying and I'm Tracy B. Wilson, A Tracy.

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Speaker 1: We work on a podcast. We do. We also listen

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Speaker 1: to podcasts, sure do. And uh. One thing that's going

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Speaker 1: on this March is that podcasts in general are all

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Speaker 1: trying to get people interested in podcasting as a general thing.

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Speaker 1: So all this month we are asking you to tell

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Speaker 1: somebody that you love about a podcast you think they'll

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Speaker 1: love that doesn't have to be our podcast. Um, I

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Speaker 1: love my big podcast love right now is How to

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Speaker 1: Be Amazing with Michael ian Black. I have said it

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Speaker 1: amongst friends, I will say it here. I think he

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Speaker 1: has the best interviewer in any medium right now. Awesome,

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Speaker 1: He's amazing. And I'm sure that there is someone out

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Speaker 1: there that you know or love, like our your best friend,

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Speaker 1: or someone in your family that you think, oh, this

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Speaker 1: podcast would be perfect for them, something like how to

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Speaker 1: Be Amazing or some other podcast and recommend it. Uh

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Speaker 1: So go tell them about these things because everybody should

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Speaker 1: be listening to podcasts. It's a medium that has something

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Speaker 1: truly for everyone. And we want you to also share

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Speaker 1: with us in the world what you recommended to that

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Speaker 1: friend by posting on social media and using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: tripod which is t r y p o D. So

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Speaker 1: spread the word about some podcasts. Uh. It will only

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Speaker 1: make us all smarter and more interested in the world.

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Speaker 1: So thanks for that, and now we're gonna hop into

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Speaker 1: our topic for today, which is another question to Tracy. Tracy,

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Speaker 1: you have heard of Qatard's delusion or Guitard syndrome before, right,

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Speaker 1: and usually probably if you've seen it. It comes up

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Speaker 1: on frequently online on like lists of you know, world

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Speaker 1: strangest maladies or or you know, lists of of sort

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Speaker 1: of disturbing or un settling mental disorders. Because in those

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Speaker 1: lists it's usually just characterized as a patient believing themselves

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Speaker 1: to be deceased. It is sometimes called walking corpse syndrome

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Speaker 1: because of that, and while that can certainly be part

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Speaker 1: of it, it is a lot more complex than that,

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Speaker 1: so Catard syndrome is quite rare. It involves both a

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Speaker 1: negation delusion, so the individual feels a major change in

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Speaker 1: their body or they deny the existence of one or

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Speaker 1: several parts of their organs or bodies like they will

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Speaker 1: sometimes think that they no longer have this era, or

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Speaker 1: that their blood is gone, or some other variation on

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Speaker 1: that theme. And it also has a nehalistic delusion element,

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Speaker 1: so in that in that part of it, the individual

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Speaker 1: also believes that they are are all people are dead,

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Speaker 1: that they are somehow comporting themselves around the earth in

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Speaker 1: a state of non living nous. Uh. So it is

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Speaker 1: it's very complex. And additionally, the work of Jules Quatard

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Speaker 1: is much debated even today, and part of that is

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Speaker 1: because it was unfinished, which we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: So really, the story of this syndrome that's named for him,

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Speaker 1: in many ways is the story of psychiatry and how

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Speaker 1: ideas are challenged and then shift and change through interpretation

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Speaker 1: as well as accumulation of data through the passage of time.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about Jules Guitard his work in

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Speaker 1: this area, and then sort of how things played out

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Speaker 1: later on in terms of using his work to address

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Speaker 1: issues patients for having Jules Quatard was born on June one,

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Speaker 1: eight forty, in East Tudan in central France. As a

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Speaker 1: young man, he became a medical student in Paris, where

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Speaker 1: he studied under several prominent and trailblazing physicians of the day.

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Speaker 1: These included Pierre Paul Broca, who has a portion of

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Speaker 1: the frontal lobe in the brain named after him because

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Speaker 1: of his work studying that area and then also establishing

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Speaker 1: the concept of brain function being associated with specific areas.

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Speaker 1: There's also Alfred Vulpian who is credited with the dicovery

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Speaker 1: of adrenaline being made by the adrenal gland, and Jean

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Speaker 1: Martin Charkoal who's considered the father of modern neurology and

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Speaker 1: has more than a dozen medical conditions or discoveries named

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Speaker 1: for him and short as kind of an incredible time

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Speaker 1: to be studying medicine in Paris, it really was. There

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Speaker 1: was also a lot going on, of course in Vienna

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Speaker 1: and Germany at the time that Paris had some really

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Speaker 1: interesting neurological and psychiatric culture growing up around it, so

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Speaker 1: initially Qatard was on the same path as the neurologist

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Speaker 1: that he had been studying under. His first significant paper

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Speaker 1: was titled Physiological and Pathological Studies on Cerebral Softening, exploring

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Speaker 1: how inflammation and hemorrhaging damage his brain tissue, and then

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Speaker 1: his doctorate paper in eighteen sixty eight, was titled Study

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Speaker 1: on Partial Atrophy of the Brain. One event though, would

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Speaker 1: really significantly change the course of Cotard's career. He witnessed

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Speaker 1: the psychiatrist Charles Les Sig interviewing a patient and he

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Speaker 1: was enthralled. Based on watching this man at work, Uh

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Speaker 1: Coutard began to shift his focus away from neurology and

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Speaker 1: into psychiatry. The two men would eventually become colleagues, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like we should say that this was It

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Speaker 1: was not uncommon for people going into psychiatry at this

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Speaker 1: time to have started out in neurology. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people did. In eighteen seventy four, l Sega introduced Jews

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Speaker 1: Coutar to Jews Falcli, and the two jewels Is would

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Speaker 1: go on to become research partners, working side by side

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Speaker 1: in the Mazon de Sante that's the asylum at von

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Speaker 1: Zes in Paris, UH in the southwestern suburbs. And incidentally,

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Speaker 1: Fare's father actually owned that asylum. What Tired gave a

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Speaker 1: presentation to Paris's Medical Psychological Society on June eighty. He

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Speaker 1: read a case report he and fall I had assembled

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Speaker 1: titled of the Hypochondriact arium in a severe form of

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Speaker 1: anxious melancholy. In this case, the patient was a woman

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Speaker 1: who was forty three. She had a unique set of symptoms.

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Speaker 1: So this woman, who is referred to in the paper

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Speaker 1: as Madame X, thought that she was made of nothing

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Speaker 1: but skin and bone, and that she had no brain, nerves,

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Speaker 1: chest or entrols. Additionally, she had come to the conclusion

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Speaker 1: that God did not exist, nor did the devil, and

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Speaker 1: that she would live forever. She had made several attempts

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Speaker 1: on her own life and requested of her doctors and

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Speaker 1: others that she be burned alive. As Coutard presented, he

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Speaker 1: referenced similar cases that had been on the record going

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Speaker 1: as far back as twenty years. He specifically mentioned similar

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Speaker 1: cases handled by doctor Juel by Rs as some of

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Speaker 1: the oldest. These were considered part of a diagnosis of

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Speaker 1: general paralysis, and in this context the paralysis referred to

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Speaker 1: as a failure of the brain characterized by a loss

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Speaker 1: of inhibitions and the exhibition of delusional thinking. So not

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Speaker 1: a lack of physical movement or an inability to move

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Speaker 1: your body right. When we think of paralysis, that's usually

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Speaker 1: what comes to mind, but that's not the application of

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Speaker 1: the word here. So yeah, this these similar um cases

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Speaker 1: that had been studied two decades earlier had kind of

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Speaker 1: gotten lumped in as general paralysis, but Qatard felt like

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Speaker 1: there was something a little more specific about them, and

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Speaker 1: he thought that what his patient was exhibiting was actually

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Speaker 1: a form of what was at the time called lipomania

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Speaker 1: or lipomania, and that term eventually was supplanted by melancholy. Basically,

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Speaker 1: he thought he had identified a specific form of melancholia,

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Speaker 1: and this was, in his opinion, and anxious melancholia, with

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Speaker 1: delusions that could include religious misbeliefs of damnation or demon possession,

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Speaker 1: the perception that some or all of the body had

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Speaker 1: ceased to exist, inability to perceive physical pain, immortality delusions,

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Speaker 1: and suicidal behavior. Jules Cotard also drew possible connections and

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Speaker 1: this presentation from the symptoms he had observed in the

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Speaker 1: patient two similar historical events, including various cases of reported

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Speaker 1: demon obsession. He suggested that the idea of the wandering

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Speaker 1: Jew legend, which was a man who had taunted Christ

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Speaker 1: on the cross and then was doomed to wander earth

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Speaker 1: until the world ended, He thought that may have had

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Speaker 1: roots in the observation of a person with a similarly

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Speaker 1: delusional state. Yeah, he was kind of making this case

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Speaker 1: that it could be that that whole legend grew out

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Speaker 1: of someone speaking with a person who actually had this

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Speaker 1: delusion that he was trying to identify. And Guitar continued

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Speaker 1: to develop his research on this topic. In two he

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Speaker 1: expanded on it by introducing the term deligions and that's

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Speaker 1: neolistic delusions in an article that he published in the

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Speaker 1: Archives den Patients with such delusions, he said, had a

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Speaker 1: tendency to deny everything, leading in extreme cases to denial

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Speaker 1: of the self. He separated the delusions of negation clinically

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Speaker 1: from delusions of persecution. In that article, he characterized persecution

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Speaker 1: delusions as exhibiting mistrust, paranoia of poisoning, delusions of grandeur,

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Speaker 1: and acoustic verbal hallucinations that would sometimes be homicidal. In contrast,

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Speaker 1: he listed anxious monologue, deep melancholic depression, refusal to eat,

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Speaker 1: visual hallucinations, and suicidal behavior as characteristics of the delusion

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Speaker 1: of negation. Four years after Qatar's initial presentation on the

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Speaker 1: symptoms of madam X, he wrote about another patient, this

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Speaker 1: one an adult man who said that he could no

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Speaker 1: longer see his children's features. In eighty four, Qatar, still

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Speaker 1: trying to build up a unified theory of what he

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Speaker 1: believed to be related symptoms, came to the conclusion that

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Speaker 1: this was a loss of mental vision, and that this

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Speaker 1: was actually the root of the problem. When patients exhibited

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Speaker 1: nehalistic delusions, the mind, in his estimation, was simply unable

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Speaker 1: to process visual representation of objects. He would later refine

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Speaker 1: this concept by describing the problem as a loss of

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Speaker 1: quote psychomotor energy, causing the patient to lose visual representation

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Speaker 1: and to experience psychomotor impairment. It's entirely likely that Cotard

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Speaker 1: would have continued to refine his work on the topic

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Speaker 1: had he not met an untimely end. In eighteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: at just forty nine years old, he contracted He contracted diphtheria,

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Speaker 1: which he caught from his daughter. He never recovered, and

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Speaker 1: he died on our August nineteen of that year. At

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Speaker 1: his funeral, his partner for I spoke calling him quote

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Speaker 1: a profound and original thinker, given to paradox but guided

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Speaker 1: by a robust sense of reality. And next up, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about what the rest of Paris's psychiatric community

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Speaker 1: did with Qatard's work after his death. But first we're

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Speaker 1: going to pause and have a word from one of

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Speaker 1: our sponsors. Almost immediately after Jules Quatard's death, debate began

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Speaker 1: about his work and where he had been headed with

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Speaker 1: it and what his intentions actually were. One of the

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Speaker 1: ongoing themes of Qatard's work was this struggle to develop

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Speaker 1: terminology for psychiatric ailments, and he had also championed this

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Speaker 1: idea of using symptomatic classification for psychiatry. So, of course,

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Speaker 1: with his work in this state of arrested development, I

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Speaker 1: mean he had been writing updates to his ideas just

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Speaker 1: days before his death, there was a lot of room

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Speaker 1: for interpretation. While some of his contemporaries thought he had

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Speaker 1: been cataloging an entirely new disease, others thought his work

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Speaker 1: had always been focused on exploring a severe and specific

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Speaker 1: form of melancholia. Others thought that he merely sought to

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Speaker 1: catalog and described a symptom cluster that could be found

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Speaker 1: in other diseases in addition to melancholia. In August of

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Speaker 1: eight two, the issue was hotly debated at the Mental

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Speaker 1: Medicine Congress in Bois France, Coutard's partner Falclay, advocated for

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Speaker 1: the idea that his friend had identified a new disease,

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Speaker 1: and to argue his case, he claimed that there was

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Speaker 1: an essential form of Qutard's delio de negusion which stood

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Speaker 1: on its own and also in a secondary form of

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Speaker 1: it that could be part of other melancholia and even

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Speaker 1: non melancolia disorders. Others and attendants argued that the specific

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Speaker 1: cluster that Fare was advocating as part of Coltard's newly

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Speaker 1: identified disorder included elements that were so rare, specifically those

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Speaker 1: relating to religion based concepts of demonic possession, damnation, and

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Speaker 1: eternal life, but there was no validity to calling it

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Speaker 1: its own singular syndrome. To support this view, was pointed

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Speaker 1: out the verse really, all patients with melancholia had a

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Speaker 1: tendency toward negation and guilt, so the cases in Cotard's

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Speaker 1: writings were just extreme examples of this. Additional arguments against

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Speaker 1: this being a standalone disorder or disease identification included claims

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Speaker 1: that Qatard was merely listing a random assortment of symptoms

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Speaker 1: that could be found in any number of mental disorders,

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Speaker 1: so grouping them together was essentially meaningless aside from anyone's

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Speaker 1: specific patient having them. Cases were also brought into the

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Speaker 1: discussion to illustrate the rather common occurrence of nehalistic delusions

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Speaker 1: in cases of chronic melancholia. While the Mental Health Congress

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Speaker 1: came to no clear conclusion as to whether Cotard's work

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Speaker 1: was describing a specific syndrome or common elements of multiple

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Speaker 1: mental disorders, there was some agreement on how to define

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Speaker 1: realistic delusion syndrome, and that was that it included two

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Speaker 1: specific elements, anxious melancholia and systematized ideas of negation. So

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Speaker 1: as an assign to clarify what that means, uh systematized

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Speaker 1: delusion indicates that a patient has developed a consistent, complex

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Speaker 1: system of beliefs associated with their condition, which often fit

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Speaker 1: together perfectly in a really elaborate narrative. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: if you think that you died in an accident where

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Speaker 1: you did not die, all of the strange things that

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Speaker 1: may happen to you you will put together into a

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Speaker 1: puzzle to support that conclusion, like I'm clearly dead. That

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Speaker 1: is why that person never calls me back. It's because

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Speaker 1: I'm dead and they're not getting my call. That's a

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Speaker 1: very simplified and and basic way, and I'm sure any

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Speaker 1: doctor would be like hallad no. But that's just to

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Speaker 1: kind of give you an idea of what this systematized

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Speaker 1: aspect of it means. One year after that Congress and

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Speaker 1: four years after Cotard's death, the term Cotard syndrome was

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Speaker 1: first introduced. That was a by Emil Resis name the

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Speaker 1: depressive disorder that Coutard had studied and described that then

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Speaker 1: became cemented in the lexicon through its use by another

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Speaker 1: of Coutard's contemporaries, who was psychiatrist Jules Sigla. Although there

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Speaker 1: were some differences in how Sigla and Coutard viewed this condition.

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Speaker 1: While many believed that Cotard's work had led him to

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Speaker 1: the conclusion that neilistic delusion was a separate and unique condition,

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Speaker 1: Segla felt that it was an expression of an extreme

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Speaker 1: state of anxious melancholia. So the case in which Sigla

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Speaker 1: first used the term Qatar's syndrome to describe a patient

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Speaker 1: featured a man who, much like Coutard's patient, Madam X,

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Speaker 1: believed himself to be immortal, damned, and without his internal Organs,

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Speaker 1: and despite his different view of whether the syndrome was

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Speaker 1: a unique disorder or a way to identify extreme cases,

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Speaker 1: Sigla's diagnosis of a patient as having Gutarge syndrome really

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Speaker 1: popularized the terms usage. With the dawn of the twentieth

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Speaker 1: century came many changes in the way mental health was

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Speaker 1: discussed and treated, and Coutard's work had to be examined

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Speaker 1: in new ways as a consequence. So first you probably

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Speaker 1: noted that leading up to this point we exclusively used

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Speaker 1: the term melancholia. That's because depression and manic depressive illness

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Speaker 1: as diagnostic terms didn't exist until the twentieth century, and

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Speaker 1: those have continued to be refined. Now people generally say

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Speaker 1: bipolar disorder and not manic depressive illness. Once they were introduced, though,

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Speaker 1: these terms really impacted a lot of disorders and illnesses,

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Speaker 1: including Coutard syndrome. So in the early nineteen hundreds, Cotard

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Speaker 1: syndrome was invoked as a symptomatic analysis of patients who

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Speaker 1: were being treated for general paralysis and senile dementia, as

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Speaker 1: it had been towards the end of the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: been used in both of those, but now it was

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Speaker 1: also associated with the newer terms depression and at that

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Speaker 1: point manic depressive illness. And so this wider range of

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Speaker 1: use also came with the development of a subdivision of

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Speaker 1: the syndrome by some doctors into two types, the melancholic

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Speaker 1: type of Catard syndrome and the hypochondriacal type of Catard syndrome.

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Speaker 1: The melancholic type was considered secondary and a patient with

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Speaker 1: effective disorder. It's a mood disorder such as depression by

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Speaker 1: polar disorder or anxiety disorder, characterized by nihilistic delusions and

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Speaker 1: the patient's subjectivity. The hypochondriacal type was considered a primary

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Speaker 1: manifestation of the syndrome, where the patient's symptoms were focused

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Speaker 1: around incorrect and paranoid feelings about that body, like that

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Speaker 1: it was missing viscera or that it was no longer alive.

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Speaker 1: And again we should make clear that this was not

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Speaker 1: a universally accepted approach to to dividing this UH. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh four, Leonardo Bianchi and James hog McDonald wrote

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Speaker 1: a tech Book of Psychiatry for physicians and students, and

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Speaker 1: in it they wrote, quote Qatard and others have assigned

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Speaker 1: undue importance to the delirium of negation, attributing to its

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Speaker 1: certain clinical characters, many of which, as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: are common to the majority of cases of depressive delirium,

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Speaker 1: such as self accusation and hypochondria, of which it represents

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Speaker 1: a more advanced stage of evolution. It was just as

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Speaker 1: a decade earlier, a time when some of the medical

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Speaker 1: mental health community believed that Qatard had wrongly associated a

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Speaker 1: series of fairly common symptoms into one unique cluster. Another

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Speaker 1: idea developed during this period was a way to identify

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Speaker 1: analyistic delusions as true Guitard syndrome. This particular approach required

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Speaker 1: that a patient exhibit a combination of an effective or

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Speaker 1: mood component like anxiety, and an intellectual component, which is

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Speaker 1: the idea of negation. This approach meant that these delusions

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Speaker 1: could be recognized and acknowledged in a variety of scenarios

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Speaker 1: without the identification of Qatard syndrome, And to make things

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Speaker 1: even more nebulous, some positions also suggested breaking down the

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Speaker 1: syndrome into complete and incomplete versions based on variations in

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Speaker 1: the patient's symptoms. This is one of those things where

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Speaker 1: the more I read, the more I was like how

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Speaker 1: do any doctors or clinicians ever agree on anything, because

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Speaker 1: because it is so hotly debated, and I know this

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Speaker 1: isn't just unique to Catard syndrome. Yet others suggested that

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Speaker 1: Catard syndrome is really a result of institutionalization, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: that first patient that Qatard described back in eighty was

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Speaker 1: a woman who had been confined at the Van Vis

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Speaker 1: Asylum for a number of years. So to wrap things up,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk a bit about the discussion and

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Speaker 1: handling of Quatard syndrome after World War Two. But first

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take one last quick break for a word

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Speaker 1: from a sponsor. During World War two, Paris was of

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Speaker 1: course occupied by the Nazis, and so work on psychiatry

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Speaker 1: they're certainly slowed. But after the war, Catard's work was

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Speaker 1: once again examined, and in some ways history repeated itself,

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Speaker 1: as various clinicians offered their interpretations based on their work

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Speaker 1: with patients that had similar or related symptoms. In the

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Speaker 1: book Uncommon Psychiatric Syndromes, writers Morgan Enoch and William Trethowen wrote,

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Speaker 1: it is quote justifiable to regard Cotard's syndrome as a

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Speaker 1: specific clinical entity, because it may exist in a pure

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Speaker 1: and complete form even when symptomatic of another mental illness.

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Speaker 1: Analyistic delusions dominate the clinical picture and today, of course,

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Speaker 1: classification of mental disorders continues to be debated, and in

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Speaker 1: the eighties many of the concepts that were being introduced

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Speaker 1: were in their infancy, so things were constantly in flux.

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Speaker 1: There was ongoing debate about what various disorders should be called,

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Speaker 1: and even how to arrange the known disorders into a

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Speaker 1: larger classification system. Because the very juvenile stage of many

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Speaker 1: of the concepts that Gatard was writing about, and the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was writing in French, there have been

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Speaker 1: additional debates through the years about the interpretations of his

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Speaker 1: work and how translation has affected it. For example, in

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Speaker 1: a paper written in by G. E. Barrios and R. Luke,

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Speaker 1: there is some discussion about the use of the French

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Speaker 1: word dellier, which has more complex and nuanced meaning than

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Speaker 1: it's usual translation to delirium or delusion. The two writers

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Speaker 1: of that paper explain that the word is more inclusive

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Speaker 1: than that and can be used to describe a syndrome

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Speaker 1: with lots of different symptoms, not just delusions, and this

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Speaker 1: syndrome now has three distinct developmental stages recognized within it

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Speaker 1: UH In the work of some doctors, the German Nation

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Speaker 1: stage is characterized by depression and often a fear or

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Speaker 1: worry about illness. And in the second stage, called the

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Speaker 1: Blooming stage, patients exhibit anxiety and negativism and the delusions

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Speaker 1: of death and immortality appear. This is what most people

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Speaker 1: are describing if you ever read like a very quick

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Speaker 1: blurb about what Gutard's is UH, and then the third

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Speaker 1: chronic stage of Quatard syndrome manifests in severe depression. Gutard's

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Speaker 1: syndrome is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

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Speaker 1: of Mental Disorders or in the International Classification of Diseases

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Speaker 1: as an independent disorder. Instead, it is listed as a

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Speaker 1: nihilistic delusion, which is an effective delusion within an oppressive

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Speaker 1: episode with psychotic features and Guitards. Syndrome can be treated

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Speaker 1: with antidepressants, antipsychotics, and mood stabilizers, either by themselves or

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Speaker 1: in some combination, depending on the tests that have been

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Speaker 1: run and what the doctor and and patient determined to

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Speaker 1: be the best course of action. Sometimes UH these still

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Speaker 1: controversial electro convulsive therapy is also used. That is very

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Speaker 1: different than it used to be. F y. I. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The greatest risks in terms of the syndrome today when

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Speaker 1: speaking about potential mortality are starvation and patients that refuse

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Speaker 1: to eat or suicide. So patients undergoing treatment do you

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Speaker 1: have to be watched very carefully. But there is treatment

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Speaker 1: and there are many cases of people who come out

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Speaker 1: of this and uh treat it and no longer have it.

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Speaker 1: So that's guitar syndrome, which fascinates me. Yeah. Do you

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Speaker 1: also have some listener mail? I do, and it's not

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Speaker 1: about psychiatric weirdness at all. Um. This is from our

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Speaker 1: listener whose name is genevra I. Hope I am pronouncing

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Speaker 1: that correctly. She says, Hi, guys, I love your show.

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Speaker 1: I'm an illustrator and love listening to it when I'm working.

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Speaker 1: I made a hardcore Heroines of History Cards series last year,

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Speaker 1: and a few of the women I had heard of

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00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: because of your show and the others I found through research.

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Speaker 1: I recently saw that you did an episode on Edmonia Lewis,

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Speaker 1: and I was so excited since I found her last

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00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: year and was blown away by what she accomplished in

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Speaker 1: her lifetime. Also, here is the archaeology badger that came

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00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: to mind from the Unearthed episode. I laughed so hard

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00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: and loved your tagline. At any rate, here's a pack

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00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: of cards for fun. I've included my artist animal pun

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00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: series since I know cats and are are also a

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00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: love of uh one of yours. Thanks for being superstellar, Geneva.

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00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 1: And she also writes, PS, this is my first fan

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00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: mail I've ever sent. Of course, a history podcast moved

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00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: me to embarrass myself. I love it and I love

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Speaker 1: the shows. These are the cutest things. So now I

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Speaker 1: will describe these adorable cards which she has sent, and

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00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: I'll have to take pictures and share them. So one

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00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: is a hardcore history of heroines, no hardcore heroines of

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00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: history that you've probably never heard of. And basically she

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Speaker 1: has incorporated animals into these portraits. So for example, there

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00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 1: is um Caroline Herschel that we did an episode on

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Speaker 1: as a bird, and she's lovely. Uh sojourn her truth

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00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: uh is I think that is a ferret, but I'm

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00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: not a certain. They're all very, very adorable and this

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00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: new pack, which includes artists, has some of the best

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00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: things ever including Marcel du Chimp, Mark Chagal, Leonardo duck Vinci,

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00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: and Beatrix Otter. UH have to take picture of the

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00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: pictures of these and share them because they are so cute.

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00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, thank you. Shanever, these are

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00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: just the most darling things I have maybe ever seen.

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00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: I love them. UH. If you would like to write

405
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: to us, you can do so at History Podcast at

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00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: house to works dot com. You can find us across

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Speaker 1: the spectrum of social media as missed in History. That

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Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash missed in history, on Instagram, as

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Speaker 1: at misst in history, at mist in history dot tumbler

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Speaker 1: dot com, and at pinterest dot com slash mist in history.

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00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: If you would like to research a little bit on

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Speaker 1: your own, you can go to our parents site, how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works. You could type in uh psychiatry and find

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Speaker 1: a wealth of information an interesting articles to keep you occupied.

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Speaker 1: You can also visit me and Tracy at missed in

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Speaker 1: history dot com, where we have every episode of the

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Speaker 1: show that has ever existed, as well as show notes

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Speaker 1: for every episode that Tracy and I have worked on

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Speaker 1: together in the last four years. UH. So we encourage

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00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: you come and visit us at missed in history dot

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Speaker 1: com and houses dot com for more on this and

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Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is It How Stuff Works dot

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