WEBVTT - The FTC Sues Amazon and Biden Heads to the Picket Line 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:06.160 From Marhart where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Valley, NBN. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:11.080 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed loved Love. 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.840 I'm Caroline Heidel Bloomberg's world headquarters in New York, and 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.360 I'm d Love Loo in San Francisco. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.680 This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.600 Coming up Biden. He heads to the picket line. We 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.440 go live d Wayne County, Michigan, where the President joins 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.960 UAW workers on strike and discuss what it means for 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:42.080 the EV industry. 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.559 And we'll have the latest on big texts, antitrust battles 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.320 as the FTC prepares to sue Amazon, while Google's trial continues. 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.000 More ahead las Apple's biggest start of the year. No, 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.680 not its iPhone, of course, but it's its case being 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.800 panned by customers. Will have more on the product mis 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.960 far ahead. Now, let's get out to someone who knows 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:02.440 a thing or two about all to make has Ford 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.120 in particular and indeed, well how all of this affects 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.320 the EV transition. Just A Dawson, and I'm pleased to 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.800 say is with us, and we are awaiting the president 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.959 for well, I mean, in long as living memory, we 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.640 haven't seen a President join the picket line. How important 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:17.960 is this in terms of aligning himself with the UAW 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.080 and what that means for ongoing negotiations. 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.959 Well, that remains unclear. I mean, it's something that that 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.839 Biden is doing at the invitation of UAW head Sean Fain, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.679 and he's clearly you know, casting his lot with labor. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.880 We've seen a summer of a lot of labor unrested activity, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.160 and it does feel like labor is a bit on 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.640 the upswing and this is clearly something the President feels, 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.760 you know, kind of dovetails with his message about better 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.800 wages for workers. It remains to be seen, however, if 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.360 there's any breakthrough in the talks, because the automakers and 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.000 the union seem to be at loggerheads over any number 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:57.240 of issues, including wages. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.840 Chester Ford has been from the expansion of the strike, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.040 you know, the UAW focus a little more in STILLANTIS 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.720 and GM. But yesterday evening the union was upset with 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:10.600 Ford about idling plants. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:12.560 What is the latest tension there? 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:14.160 Yeah, that's right. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:16.560 Ed Ford had said that it's going to hit the 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:22.000 pause button on an expected expansion of its electric vehicle 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.240 you know, production capacity at a new plant that was 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.760 to be built in Western Message, again with some key 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:33.120 support from a leading Chinese battery maker, c L. So 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.040 the reasoning for that is a little unclear, but it 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:40.600 comes a very delicate time with the EAZWAYW talks. So 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.839 it's something THEW has objected to. They see it as 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.640 kind of a preemptive strike by Forward to prevent the 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.720 unionization of those workers, among other things. So it just 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.959 shows you how volatile this whole mix is. That plant 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:56.920 was announced, you know, quite a while ago, and yet 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.520 here we are it looks like there's gonna be no 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:01.120 shovels the ground for the time being. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.880 Ultimately, this is all sort of precarious balancing app not 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.680 only for corporate America, but also for the administration trying 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.760 to push companies to invest in a transition and at 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.600 the same time as having to share what have been 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.640 some decent profits with workers as well. Just what's the 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.800 investor reaction been, like? Have they been okay with the 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.639 idea that basically, for the short term, maybe these automakers 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:24.959 do need to realign where some of the money goes. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.080 Well, yes, that's a very good question. The certainly public 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:34.560 opinion seems aligned with the workers. Where investors stand is 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.520 a little unclear. I mean, you know, these the stocks 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.560 of say GM and Ford in particular have kind of 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.840 been you know, under a microscope really dating back to 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:49.560 the start of these negotiations in Midsummer. So there is 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.360 a big question about how much they can afford and 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.360 still make all the investments they need. On the other hand, 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.040 there does seem to be some recognition that they're going 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:02.200 to have to compromise. Maybe they given on things like 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.640 no more share of buybacks. I mean that certainly seems 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.600 to be something that investors might be okay with the dividend, 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:08.480 that's another matter. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.440 All right, Blombos Chester Dawson, who leads our industrials and 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.440 allt to make a coverage out of Detroit, thank you 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.160 so much. Look at the core of this is the 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.440 electrification of an entire industry, and what we're talking about 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.960 is where the money should go. Joining us now is 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.160 arkdisos In, our founder and CEO at Free Wire Technology 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.960 is a charging infrastructure company, energy solutions company. And the 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.080 union's argument is that lots of public money is going 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.320 into the infrastructure, it's going into the production capacity, but 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.520 the labor is not going with it. Your argument is 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:46.200 that those jobs on the assembly line can be reallocated 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.080 to your industry for an example. 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:48.640 That's right. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:50.599 I think this is going to be a redistribution of jobs. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.000 It's clear that the number of labor that it takes 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.200 to produce an electric vehicle is forty percent lower than 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.400 that of a combustion vehicle. Jim Farrelly has said this. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.160 But the fact of the matter is of your at 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.080 the industry today. Three years ago, we have two battery 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.800 manufacturing plants across the US. Today we have thirty either 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.720 live or plan to go live over the next four years. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:10.920 By the end of the decade, we have twenty times 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.240 the battery manufacturing capacity that we did in this country 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.320 at the start of at the start of the decade. 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.200 The fact is the redistribution of jobs will happen. It 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.359 won't impact everyone the same way. But going from jobs 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.599 that pay today eighteen to thirty two dollars an hour 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.279 to jobs that will invariably pay more in the battery 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.840 manufacturing sector, that's fundamentally what's happening. And the UAW strike 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.680 against the automobile OEMs is not fundamentally about their employees 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.560 or their labor it's fundamentally about the UAW because those 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.760 they will not be there to support battery manufacturing as 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.120 well as chip and semiconductor production. 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.159 You have hundreds of fast charges here in North America. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.920 You're active in Europe as well. Are you in a 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.840 position where you're like, okay, the money's coming from the 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.000 Inflation Reduction Act? 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:56.320 Are you in a position to. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.200 Offer jobs to those that are currently working on the 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.599 assembly line are worried about their future. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.320 We have jobs that are available for UAW workers today 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.000 that are displaced, but the fact of the matter is 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.000 we won't be able to take all of the demands 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:13.240 that these OEMs have to give up. So there are 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.200 hundreds of companies in the space, from battery manufacturing to 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.560 charger technologies that are absorbing many of these jobs. And 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.279 similar to what happens in the transition from fuels to solar, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.720 a lot of the jobs went into the solar industry, 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:30.000 high paying, distributed, dispersed jobs that are seeing great result 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:30.480 right now. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.159 Oh god, it's interesting you bring up solar. So there's 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.680 another industry that was highly dependent on China, really and 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:39.960 you're seeing that same issue here at play with battery 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.280 making here in the United States. We're just hearing from 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.000 Justin Dawson about Ford being blasted by the UAW itself 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.160 at the moment for putting on ice that three and 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.479 a half billion dollar battery plant because it was going 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.280 to be working with coatl. How much are you having 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.080 to get supply chain from China? How much do you 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.719 think jobs in the US are dependent on an ongoing 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.320 somewhat friendly relationship. 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.159 That's right, Carolyn. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:02.839 I think there is a concern that some of the 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.760 battery production and as well as chips and semiconductors charging 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.040 infrastructure will come from the Chinese market. But unlike solar, 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.120 I think the Biden administration has taken a good look 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.200 at that ahead of the blossoming of this industry. We've 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.320 already put certain tariffs in place on battery cells coming 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:25.000 in from China, and we've incentivized US domestic manufacturing of chips, 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.840 semi conductors, charging instructure, and batteries all across. That is, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.440 so we expect this market to play out a little 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:35.080 bit differently than it did in the solar industry free Wire, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.000 particularly because of the incentives that are in place. We've 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.440 transitioned all production out of China. In fact, we only 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.440 have one single supplier left from China for a small 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.600 inconsequential part. The vast majority of our other suppliers are 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.240 coming from the US and European markets, and more. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.200 Broadly, therefore, you have seen incentives with which to do this. 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:56.640 Can the industry eventually be standing on its own two 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.840 feet without the necessary sort of help with an ILRA 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.640 or indeed ensuring that well you're getting the right labor 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.080 at the right time without the incentive process there. 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.080 Yes, I think so, and you can see that corollaria 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:10.000 happening in Europe. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:11.560 Whereas in the US we use the. 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.520 Carrot via the incentives, in Europe they really use the 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.880 stick and said, by twenty thirty you're unable to drive 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.880 electric or you're going to pay twenty five pounds by 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.120 going into the city of London if unless you have 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:22.360 an electric vehicle. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.360 And the business model there works. 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.640 You can see that as adoption ramps up in the US, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.000 seven percent of all new vehicles sold last quarter, we're 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.000 fully electric. In the US twenty five percent of new 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.800 vehicle sold in California, we're fully electric. As adoption happens, 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.880 the business models start to turn and work. So I 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.120 am encouraged to see that while we do need incentives 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.200 to get through the next two to three years while 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.839 adoption is still low, we won't need them by the 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:46.679 end of the decade. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.440 Well, it's your assessment, Arkada, of the lasting or near 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.600 term impact of this. You're hopeful, of course that more 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.600 people by electric vehicles and use your charges, But do 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.760 you see that this temporary halt talks between the UAW 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.440 and the OEMs is going to impact production for the 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.320 next year eighteen months and therefore the availability of EV 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:09.319 models right now? 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:10.920 That's right, but I think a lot of the demand 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.200 will shift to the to Tesla. Frankly speaking, they're still 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.240 one of the largest adopters, still one of the large 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.319 producers of electric vehicles. This is only going to solidify 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.400 their market dominance, and so while you will see fewer 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.000 makes and models of vehicles from the traditional big three OEMs, 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.120 there's still plenty of supply and capacity available for consumers 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:30.920 to pick up. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.600 Wow, we're going to be combining all of those stories 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:37.360 with a discussion on Tesla's effect, well with EU subsidies 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.760 as well. Our codecersn't have absolutely great to speak with you. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:40.000 Thank you. 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.080 Free Wire technologies on all thing uaw here in the US. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.480 I mean, while speaking of strikes, look voice actors performers 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.599 who work in video games. They voted to authorize a 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.800 strike ahead of their contract negotiations this week. Like the 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.760 SAG after strikes, the concern for video game makers involved 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.720 how artificial intelligence can be used to recreate the actor's 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.040 voice and images at the moment that the vote only 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.720 authorizes a strike, and we're going to rebring you any 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.199 updates sis to whether they actually action on that authorization. 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.680 Ed All right, coming up, We're going to go from 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.320 what's happening on the ground with strikes, what's happening in 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:15.120 Capitol Hill. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.640 Amazon versus the FTC. 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.400 We'll talk about the impact of the FTC's lawsuit on 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.160 the future of Amazon, but also big tech anti trust 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.400 at large. That's coming up next. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.079 It's official the FTC is suing Amazon. FTC investigators and 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.559 Lina Khan's office have been working on the complaint for months, 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.760 which accuses the e commerce giant of monopolizing online marketplace 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.600 services by degrading quality for shoppers and then overcharging the sellers. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.880 That's bringing Bloomberg's editing out of Seattle for more. And 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.760 this is the fourth suit that the FTC is put 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.720 in front of Amazon. Give us the specifics this time 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:10.079 around of what they're claiming. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.200 Yeah, this is the big one that we've been waiting for. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.679 The other three complaints were focused on the consumer protection 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.400 issues at the FTC say with Amazon, and this is 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.480 the big anti trust case. So, like you said, this 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.360 case focuses on two different aspects of Amazon's business, both 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.960 the way that the e commerce giant sells to customers 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.160 and also the way that sellers use the website to 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:34.440 reach their own customers. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.400 We've been anticipating it. Amazon too had been anticipating it. 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.800 And we get the response from the company criticizing the 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.640 FTC lawsuit, saying it's wrong on facts on law, and 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.640 they said they look forward to making the case in court. 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.000 In fact, Amazon really says the FTC has quote radically 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:54.320 departed from consumer mission. From that perspective, this isn't This 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.400 isn't a realignment of how the FTC ces big tech, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.720 isn't it. It's not just look what gets the consumer 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.880 that this price, but the way in which they go 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:02.640 about doing it. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.040 So the sellers too, that's. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.000 Absolutely right, and that's one reason why this case is 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.720 so interesting. You know, Lena Khan, the chair of the FTC, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.319 as a law student at Yale, wrote her most famous 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.439 law review paper about Amazon's business practices and why current 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.800 anti trust law is inadequate to address that kind of 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.599 anti competitive measure. And this case is really going to 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.000 be the test of some of those theories whether or 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.600 not you can fit a different kind of business like 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.040 Amazon that didn't exist back when our current anti trust 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.760 statutes were written a century ago, whether you can fit 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.640 that kind of case into current anti trust law. So 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.600 this will be a really important case both to test 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.079 Lena Khan's legal theory and also Amazon's defense. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.120 You know, Amazon's come out quickly in response to this. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.080 Cara outlined their response that merchants on the site have 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.400 had this complaint against Amazon for a really long time, 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.679 that it's a one sided relationship. The FTC suit is 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.440 also conjunction with seventeen other states. How does it play 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.400 out from here? Anna, you know, is this can be 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.640 law long and drawn out and protracted or do we 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.000 expect sort of some quick decision to be made in 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:11.559 the courts. 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.240 Yeah, the solar aspect of This is really interesting because 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.559 for these third party merchants, Amazon is both a competitor 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.880 and a business partner. So that's one reason why these 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.040 merchants have long complained that Amazon has too much power 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.079 over their relationship with their customers. So we'll see how 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.400 this plays out in federal court. Like I said, this 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.160 is going to be an important test of this kind 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.440 of legal theory, and we do expect this to be, 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.440 you know, a long process. There will be plenty of appeals, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.440 and Amazon had asked for Lena Khan to accuse herself 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.920 from this case because of kind of the past history 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.439 writing about and investigating the company. So you know, we'll 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.000 see what kind of defense they present in court. But 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.040 they also have been waiting for this for a long 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:54.880 time and they're definitely prepared to make their case. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.000 Important times for you to be out there in Seattle. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.160 We thank you, Anna Egeton. 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.679 SEC Chair Gary Gensler appearing before the House Financial Services 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.400 Committee tomorrow to testify about regulation of the crypto industry 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.520 of conversation that has. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.280 Been ongoing for a little while. 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.040 Now joining us in the program Bloomberg Shnali Basset, but 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.400 also Caracalbot coinbase head of US policy. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:25.600 Chanali, take it away. 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.000 Kara, thank you for joining us ahead of this pretty 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.840 critical hearing. The reality of the situation, though, is the 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.080 SEC has a lot on its agenda, crypto being just 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.160 one part of it. The lawmakers themselves also facing a 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.200 potential government shut down, a lot going going on. How 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.520 do you win the attention over to the needs that 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.360 you have for the crypto industry when there are so 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:48.440 many distractions. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.520 Absolutely, well, thank you so much for having me today. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.400 It's a really pivotal moment here in Washington. And I 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.840 think how we are doing this is we are bringing 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.760 the faces the voices the Americans who own and care 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.480 about crypto and they are coming to Washington for the 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.960 first ever Stand with Crypto Day tomorrow. So we have 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:13.160 more than fifty companies represented, representing more than thousands and 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.120 thousands of jobs across the United States. They are coming 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.560 to meet with their members of Congress to talk about 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.920 why they care about crypto policy. And that is historic. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:24.080 And it just so happens that it's on the exact 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.840 same day that Chairman Gensler is testifying in front of 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.480 the House Financial Services Committee. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.760 Well, what does this mean for the constituents that you're 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:35.320 bringing down to Washington when they're having conversations with lawmakers. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:36.440 Are they mostly. 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.600 Preparing those lawmakers to grill Gary Gensler tomorrow or are 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.560 they trying to win back lawmakers that are not yet 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:44.320 on their side. 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.080 I think they're trying to educate, but I think it's 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.840 also really trying to help people understand why crypto matters 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.280 to the fifty two million Americans who own it today 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.320 in the United States, and that is something that there 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.920 are so many lawmakers that understand why YPTO is important, 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.200 but are there are a few outliers, and there are 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.600 some that are saying, including mister Gensler, that this industry 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.040 is rife with corruption and fraud. And these folks are 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.040 coming to Washington today to say, this is my job. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.400 You're talking about my family, my economic situation, your state. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.160 That really needs to consider how this industry as a 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.680 whole is influencing the country, is influencing the future of 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:25.720 the country and innovation. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.720 Car I appreciate the education argument. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.880 What is the end goal though, Is it sort of 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:37.760 specific oversight from a legislation perspective that you're looking for 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:39.240 at the end of the road. 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:44.280 Absolutely, I think Congress, is it an opportunity, has an 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.200 opportunity to pass legislation that will create a comprehensive framework 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:51.360 for crypto. It's what Americans are asking for. It's about 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:58.240 consumer protection, it's about enabling innovation, and really about US competitiveness. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:57.960 As a whole. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.520 And so what we're here to talk about both as 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.640 Coinbase and I think from the rest of the founders, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.879 as we've had discussions across the country, they want to 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.840 see legislation, whether it's the Financial Innovation and Technology Act 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.640 for the twenty first Century, if it's the stable Coin 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.800 Bill that has been worked on in a biparisan fashion 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.800 over the course of the last year to eighteen months. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.280 There is legislation on the table that I think Congress 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.719 really needs to consider and vote to pass. A vote 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.800 in November for this legislation is a vote for consumer 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.200 protection and for Americans who want to own and use crypto. 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.560 A vote against this legislation is really a vote against 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.320 the future innovation, jobs, economics. That is what is going 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.399 to carry a lot of these members through through twenty 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:40.920 twenty four. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:42.280 Cara. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.440 A few weeks ago, the Ripple co founder Chris last 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.240 And joined me on the program, and he said that 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:52.040 above Gary Gensler at the administration level, the Biden administration 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.160 has chosen to drive the crypto and blockchain industries offshore. 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.920 Is that a position that Coinbase share. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:03.679 It is certainly having an impact. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.159 Yes, there have been studies done where two percent of 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.840 developers are going overseas. That means a million jobs by 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.199 twenty thirty. And if you think about technology, I've been 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.000 working in technology for twenty years. You see startups, they 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:19.440 have knock on effects four to six jobs per small startup. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.320 That means four to six million jobs that are going 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:23.800 overseas by twenty thirty. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:25.919 So yes, it's having a very real. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.800 Impact where unelected bureaucrats are making decisions that I think 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.560 Americans really rely on elected officials to do. And so 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.800 I think the administration and others really need to think 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.560 carefully about how they proceed in the next six to 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:40.200 eighteen months. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.720 There's a lot at stake from Coinbase obviously as well. 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:44.280 When you think about your own suit when it comes 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.000 to the SEC what are you most looking for Congress 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.880 to tackle First? You have now a new stake in circle, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.960 so that puts stable coins on the table more dramatically 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:56.960 and there's also the staking issue. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.000 What do you prioritize. 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:00.760 All of it? 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.480 Honestly, I think the comprehensive nature of the legislation is 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.720 really important because at this point digital assets is not 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:14.359 a one size fit all ecosystem. We have commodities, we 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.560 have stable coins, and then we have what is I 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.879 think a fledgling industry right now with digital asset securities, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.719 because there's no pathway to registration for the sec so 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.080 we really need a comprehensive approach. So by that nature, 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.960 we're really pushing for pieces of legislation in all three 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:31.760 of those areas. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.639 All right, caracalvet Coinbase, Head of US Policy and of 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:47.240 course our own Shinali Bassett, Welcome back to Member Technology. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.640 Ed Louvelow here in San Francisco. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.480 And Caroline hid in New York. You have some pictures 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:52.359 we want to be brought up. 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:53.080 Yeah. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:58.240 President Biden has touched down at Detroit Metropolitan Airport, Wayne County, Michigan. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.760 As we know, Caroline is going to later meeting with 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.680 UAW representatives. Joining the picket line at the invitation of 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.960 UAW right now meeting with local representatives ahead of that, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.760 and the talks ongoing between the UAW principally GM and 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:18.000 STILLANTIS the sticking point. Ford was spared from the expanded strike, 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.520 but there are issues over it, pausing plans for new 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.080 battery facilities in that state. President Brighten on the ground 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:25.320 there in Wayne County, Michigan. 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.960