WEBVTT - How Did Wine Fraud Become Such a Big Business? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.120 Guess what mango? What's that? Will? All right, I'm gonna 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.080 tell you about a little experiment. You know, I love 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.119 to tell you about experiments, Right, So this was one 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.760 that took place back in two thousand one, and there 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.280 were fifty four undergrads and this was at the University 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.680 of Bordeaux. So they were studying wine tasting and wine 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.479 making and they were training to be experts on and 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.799 kind of naturally interested in the subject of wine. And 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.439 so during this specific study, there was a researcher that 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.480 was asking students to describe one glass of white wine 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:30.760 and one glass of red wine. And these were both 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.320 just sitting right in front of them. But of course 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.760 there's a trick here, so they didn't know that the 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.440 glass of red was actually just a glass of white 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.680 wine with a little bit of food coloring. So I mean, 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:43.640 I feel like I can already guess how this ends. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.319 Like none of them knew was white wine they were drinking, right, 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:49.519 and it uh. It kind of reminds you of that 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:52.519 commercial from Pizza Hut where they served this pasta in 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.080 Italy and they tried to rebrand themselves as Pasta Hut, 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:57.760 and no one knew it was from pizza Hut. Oh man, 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:00.520 that was so tricky, And I'm sure those sudies were 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:03.480 equally scientific, but but you're right, like, not one of 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.360 the fifty four kids could tell the white wine was white. 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.160 And as they were writing down their notes, they were 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.280 looking for the features that you would typically find and reds, 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.880 and even convincing themselves that they were tasting those notes 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.720 and the drink. Now, honestly, normally, I don't like these 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.319 kinds of studies because I don't love people feeling like 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.440 they've been tricked, and especially with things like art or wine, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.920 where they're already feeling intimidated by the whole thing. And 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.080 I feel like everybody should get to enjoy those things 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:34.320 without worry. But today's show is all about wine crimes, 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.080 you know, the forgeries and frauds and the wine world, 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.920 and it is a fascinating world. And the thing that's 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:41.679 so interesting to me about these cons is that the 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.360 people really really want to believe they're drinking or buying 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.440 the good stuff, even when it's really smart people drinking 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.720 a very obvious white wine and drops of food coloring 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.320 or just placed in it. And that's what today's show 0:01:54.360 --> 0:02:18.240 is all about. Let's dive in. Hey, their podcast listeners, 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.560 Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will Pearson and as 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.920 always I'm joined by my good friend man guest Ticketer 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.760 and on the other side of the soundproof glass decanting 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.239 a bottle of what is that? It's Bartels and James 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.240 man the Wild Island Wine Spritzer, and I think he 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.160 ordered it on eBay. He was saying, that's our friend 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.160 and producer Tristan McNeil. I'm pretty sure that's just a 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.160 bottle of grape soda that he put a bartls On 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.520 James label on. And uh, we know your tricks, Tristan, 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.640 so you can't fool us, Triston. But today's episode is 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.120 obviously about wine and wine crimes. But did you know 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.320 that grape juice is actually a man made invention? So 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.440 I didn't gave actually pointed this out to me. But 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:58.720 just think about it, like if the juice from a 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.840 bunch of grace was to somehow pool in the wild, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.360 it would start to ferment on its own. So in 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.840 order to make grape juice, we actually have to halt 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.079 their natural fermentation process to stop it from being alcoholic. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.000 So there's no such thing as all natural grape juice, 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.200 no matter what the labels tell you. You know, I've 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.680 actually never thought about that, and that is a pretty 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.760 benign case of of mislabeling. But there's so many other 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.640 interesting stories of you know, many more nefarious examples, including 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.720 one of history's first wine crimes. And I know you 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.320 were doing some digging into this, So do you want 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.520 to give us the scoop? Yeah, definitely, I can do that. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.680 So wine itself is something that's been around pretty much forever. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.440 I mean, you can go back as far as seven 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.520 thousand b C. And the Chinese were actually making wine 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:44.160 from fermented honey and rice and fruit. The Phoenicians were 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.040 getting in the act. They were producing and trading their 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.480 own versions throughout the Mediterranean. And for as long as 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.960 humans have been making wine, there have also been those 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.640 have been manipulating or counterfeiting it for their own game. 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.640 And you can actually see this in ancient Rome. So 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.640 the Romans complained about phony wine flowing through the country, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.520 and in fact, Pliny the Elder once wrote about the problem, saying, quote, 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.960 not even our nobility ever enjoys wines that are genuine. 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.560 So wine forgeries have been this widespread problem from the start, 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.320 which you know must have been really disheartening for Pliny 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.520 the Elder. So so why do you say that? Well, 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.920 he was also the Roman scholar who coined the famous 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.080 phrase in vino veritas or in wine, there is truth, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.360 so he probably didn't appreciate people meddling with the wine 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.320 or his aphorism. I like the fact that I think 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.839 we've quoted Pliny the Elder maybe three times on this 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.800 show before we got real Plenty here. We we love Pliny, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.600 or at least quoting Plenty. But alright, so so fake 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.800 wine was definitely flowing through Rome. But but how exactly 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.719 did the scam work? So basically, counterfeiters would sometimes claim 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.720 a wine was made from a certain kind of grape 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.440 or even produced in a specific region, that it really wasn't. So. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.479 For example, like the most popular wine and ancient Rome 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.839 was fail Aian wine, which was made from grapes grown 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.240 on the slopes of this and this wine was somewhat 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.280 rare and pretty expensive, but before long there were all 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.599 these local bars serving up a never ending supply of 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.440 it at super cheap prices, And while plenty of people 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.719 couldn't tell the difference, there were these people with more 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.800 discerning palettes like Pliny, who caught on pretty quickly. So 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.920 I'm guessing though, that wouldn't exactly stop the counterfeiters. Though, 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.240 no it didn't. I mean, wine forgers only became more 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.359 common as time went on, which really prompted governments to 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.240 crack down on the crimes. So in London during the 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.679 Middle Ages, you actually see tavern owners had to store 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.720 their French, Spanish and German wines and separate containers and 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:35.919 separate areas, so it would be harder for them to 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.080 mix the wines or even to lie about where a 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.000 certain wine came from. And if a bar keep was 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.240 caught serving fraud wine like, the punishment was that they 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.880 had to drink every single drop of it themselves. What 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.520 a harsh punish. I mean, I guess if it was 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.040 fake wine, it probably didn't taste great, but that that 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.440 really doesn't seem like that bad of a punishment. Yeah, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:57.880 I mean, I guess some of the wine could have 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.160 been off or whatever. But Germany actually had a much 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.800 harsher policy wine counterfeiters there. It could be branded or 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.120 even hanged, and it depended on how much fraudulent wine 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.040 they were selling and who they've been selling it to. Alright, 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.159 so let me get this straight. So in one country 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.320 you could be looking at a punishment of having to 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.200 drink some pretty bad wine, and then another country you 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.000 might actually be hanged for the crime. I mean there 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.320 was a lot of bad wine. Yes, must have been 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.240 really bad so all right. So so then if we're 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.560 talking about multiple places that this kind of fraud was 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.880 rampant all across Europe or what it definitely was. And 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.840 during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries there is even this 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.960 group of so called wine doctors who started producing their 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.160 own makeshift wines from chemicals and all sorts of random 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.360 fruits like apples or even raisins, and then they try 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.680 to pass the stuff off as this really prestigious wine 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.479 from far away regions. And this actually became such a 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.320 huge problem that European government started cracking down on it. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.800 So you know, the British Parliament took a stab at it. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.520 They passed this Adulteration of Food and Drink Act in 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.680 eighteen sixty. Alright, So did this just put a complete 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.000 style up to the whole wine fraud business or what 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.120 or not at all? I mean the added scrutiny and 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.920 growing awareness of why fraud mostly just got criminals to 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.400 think more creatively about the whole business. I did read 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:13.520 about this amazing American wine scam that grape growers started 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.040 during Prohibition, and it was actually pretty clever. So at 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.240 the time, the Volstead Act made it so that, you know, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.760 that grapes could only be grown if they were to 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.240 be used for nonalcoholic consumption, like you know, eating on 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.720 their own or made into grape juice or I guess, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.040 you know, non alcoholic wine. And so this left American 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.200 grape growers with two pretty bad options. They could either 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.400 like rip out all their grapevines and plan a different crop, 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.080 or try to sell the grape some other way and 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:41.880 then just you know, kind of hope that there would 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.080 be a constitutional amendment that would come along later. And 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.280 so now some owners chose the first, of course, and 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.240 that was the much safer option, and they immediately started 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.840 replacing their grapevines with orchards. But you have these other 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.000 former winemakers who decided to try, you know, that the 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:01.000 second option, and ultimately that's what actually saved the entire 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.840 California wine industry. I mean, that's pretty fascinating, but it 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.360 was grape juice that popular, Like, how are they still 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.120 doing good business during this time? No, I mean, grape 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.400 juice was not that popular. And so basically, the grape 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.160 growers they would they they found a loophole. Actually, it 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.520 was perfectly legal to produce. It was so called non 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.040 alcoholic wine that could theoretically be turned into real wine 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.080 by the consumers. So the only catch was they had 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.360 to make it clear that fermenting the wine would be illegal. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.960 So with this in mind, the vineyards started selling these 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.920 quote wine bricks, and they were basically just these big 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.240 chunks of grape concentrate that came bundled with a packet 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.440 of yeast. I mean, that's ridiculous. It's like the blue 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.880 apron of wine or Hello Fresh who sponsored the show. 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.080 So we're gonna go with that, that's right. The bricks 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:50.480 also came with a warning label that warned consumers against, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.600 you know, combining the concentrate in yeast with water and 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.640 sugar in a sealed pot and then and then letting 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.960 that pot sit in a cooled cover for twenty one 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.680 day straight. And so it more than they should definitely 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.960 not do that, or else they you know, wind up 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.440 with an alcoholic beverage, even if it was a delicious 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.120 alcoholic beverage, they should definitely not do this. It feels 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.520 like very specific instructions on what not to do. Yeah, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.120 it's so subtle, right, but I mean it actually worked 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.120 incredibly well for the grape growers and kept them afloat 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.400 during America's failed attempt at sobriety. And so wine concentrates 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.200 like this had actually been sold pre prohibition for a 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:29.120 little less than ten dollars a ton, but just four 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.319 years into prohibition, the price had increased by nearly four 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.800 thousand percent and they were selling for almost four hundred 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.200 dollars a ton. And so it was this rise and 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.800 profits that attracted new grape growers to Napa Valley, and 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.000 among them was Caesar Mundabi. You know, that name obviously 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.760 sounds familiar to many people, and he was this Minnesota 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:51.400 grocer who began his family's wine dynasty actually during the 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.680 heart of the prohibition era. That's amazing, and I actually 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.080 love how the story really makes you root for winemakers, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.319 because that's not something that happens too often with wine crimes, right, 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.000 I mean, especially nowadays where most wine fraud tends to 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.120 be perpetrated among these high end wine collectors, and so 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.800 it is a little tough to drum up sympathy when 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:13.000 it's just like millionaires ripping off other millionaires. Yeah, I 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.280 know what you mean. So talking to wine frauds, did 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.920 you hear about those counterfeit wines that supposedly belonged to 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.319 Thomas Jefferson that went up for auction at Christie's in 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.040 the nineteen eighties, I don't think so. So one of 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:28.079 the bottles, which was a seventeen eighty seven Chateau Lafitte Bordeaux, 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.199 was sold to Chris and Malcolm Forbes for a hundred 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.960 and fifty six thousand dollars. And this is actually the 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:35.679 most that a single bottle of wine had ever been 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.080 sold for at the time. So we're talking about the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.720 Forbes family, like Forbes Magazine and all of that empire, right, 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:44.400 and for years this phony bottle of wine was actually 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.920 the pride of the Forbes collection. Apparently, when Malcolm Forbes 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.000 learned that he'd won the bid, he said, and this 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.840 is a direct quote, it's more fun than the opera 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.480 glasses Lincoln was holding when he was shot. And I 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.920 have those two, Right, that's just such an insane statement. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.240 And I guess when you're that rich, you're just looking 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.959 for ways to spend your money. But the craziest thing 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.000 is that the Forbes family didn't find out that they've 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.880 been scammed until two decades after the fact. You know, 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.720 to your earlier point, it is a little bit difficult 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.000 to drum up sympathy when people are saying stuff like that. 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.880 But I'm curious, so why did it take these two 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.720 decades to figure out they've been scamped? Partly it's because 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.960 the story is just so believable. So Thomas Jefferson was 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.640 famous for his love of fine food and wine, which 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.000 you'd grown accustomed to during his time in Europe. Then, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.960 in fact, during his time in the White House, Jefferson 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.640 actually spent over sixteen thousand dollars which is about three 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.040 hundred thousand dollars in today's money, on wine, amassing a 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.199 private collection of more than twenty thousand bottles. So, I mean, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.360 all that kind of sets the stage right, Like, then 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.719 you've got Forbes who hears the story of a well 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.600 known German wine enthusiast who supposedly like found Jefferson's wine 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.160 hidden behind a brick wall in Paris, and there was 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.400 little reason to doubt him. I mean, the bottles even 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.760 had the right eights and the initials T h J 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.240 on them, and they were etched into the bottles, so 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.800 it all seemed real and that makes sense. But but 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.560 how did the Forbes family figure out they've been duped? Well, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.319 the truth actually came out thanks to the efforts of 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.840 a different billionaire wine collector, so basically the German forger, 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.120 this guy named Hardy rodent Stock. He just wasn't content 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.640 with selling one bottle that he discovered behind the wall. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.880 He also found four more bottles, which he sold for 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.839 half a million dollars to William Coke and you probably 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.360 recognize that name. He's the lesser known but still super 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.840 wealthy Coke brother who isn't as tangled up in politics. 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.560 And for a long time Coke also believed his bottles 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.520 were legitimate, but that changed in two thousand five when 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.840 the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston was preparing to 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.800 exhibit his wine collection to the public, and basically the 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:48.080 museum contacted the Thomas Jefferson Foundation at Monticello, but none 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.880 of the historians could actually verify that the bottles belonged 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.600 to Jefferson. In fact, all of the evidence that they 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:57.080 had on hand pointed to the contrary. So what kind 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.000 of evidence are we talking about. Well, Jefferson actually kept 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.960 meticulous records on everything, you know, Jefferson being Jefferson, and 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.439 this included all the wines he'd ever bought while in France. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.800 And according to one of Monticello's senior historians, and here 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.160 I'm just going to quote the note he wrote in 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.400 his vast records of over sixty thousand documents, there was 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.720 nothing that suggested Jefferson had ever ordered any of these wines. 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.600 In the so called Jefferson bottles, there were about a 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.760 dozen bottles, including seventeen eighty four and a seventeen eighty 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.200 seven Chateau to Kim, a seventeen seven Lafitte or Margo. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.880 Most of them were seventeen eighty seven, a vintage Jefferson 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.240 never ordered in his life. Wow. So, I mean that 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.480 is pretty compelling evidence, but meticulous or not, I mean, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.040 there's always the chance that Jefferson made a mistake in 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:44.800 his records, right, Yeah, that's true, which is why Bill 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.760 Coke actually leaned on a private investigator and a former 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.720 FBI agent, this guy named Jim Elroy to get to 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.760 the bottom of things. Alright, I definitely want to hear 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.880 all this panned out. But before you cluisen, let's take 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:10.480 a quick break. You're listening to Part Time Genius and 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.200 we're talking about the most famous wine crimes in history. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.640 All right, mango, So what happened with Elroy's investigation? I'm 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.120 assuming he found a way to prove that the Jefferson 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.200 wine was fake, right, So he did, but it was 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.160 not easy. So at first he started looking for ways 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.360 to prove that the wine itself didn't really date back 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.560 to the eighteenth century. And the tricky part is finding 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.080 a way to do it without opening the bottles. Right, Like, 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.200 you know, just in cases hunch was wrong. You don't 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:38.440 want to mess up these wonderful bottles of wine. So 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.360 this is kind of amazing. But Elroy found a solution 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.280 in the research of this French physicist named Philip Hubert. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.160 And Hubert found a way to use low level gamma 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.120 ray detection to date wine without actually having to remove 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.400 it from the bottle. Wait, so how do how does 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.760 that work? Basically, you try to determine if the wine 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.520 contains any traces of caesium seven. And this is a 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.800 radio active isotope that doesn't occur in nature. So prior 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.840 to the Atomic Age, this isotope just straight up didn't 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:08.960 exist on Earth. But after the use of nuclear bombs, 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:14.360 it was literally everywhere, including like the atmosphere, the rain, soil, grapes, 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.520 and eventually in wine. Alright, So so this test can't 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.360 determine exactly when a wine was bottled, but it can 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.360 at least tell you if the bottle was before or 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.640 after what like the mid forties or so exactly, which 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.960 would have been enough for Elroy, like if the bottles 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:31.000 contained season one seven, then they couldn't have been bottled 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:35.040 in the eighteenth century. But Hubert's tests actually came back negative, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.200 which proved the wine had been bottled prior to the 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.560 Atomic Age, though not necessarily as far back as Jefferson. 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:43.160 Oh wow, so that's a pretty good curb also, so 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.000 Elroy then had to come up with a plan B. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.720 So so what did he do? Yeah, Elroy went back 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.800 to the drawing board and he started assembling this crack 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.320 team of wine fraudc experts, including a retired Scotland yard inspector, 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.800 a former m I five agent and even a master 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.200 glass engraver. And since efforts to uncover for on in 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.680 the wine itself had failed, the team turned their attention 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.040 to the other way to counterfeit one, which is just 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.520 by messing with the bottle. And this is where the 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.560 expert engraver comes in, because the team was actually able 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.200 to prove that the etched initials on the bottle had 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.240 been done with an electric dentist drill, which of course 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.000 was not a thing in the eighteenth century. Wow, I mean, 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.960 like it's so crazy that that was the deciding factor. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:23.720 I mean, I'm kind of guessing they wish they'd looked 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.920 closer at the bottle before they started doing all those seasons. Mean, 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.360 as interesting as that is, because I'm guessing these physicists 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.160 don't come cheap for that kind of investigation. Yeah, I mean, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.120 we didn't even get a detail there, because that part 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.960 wasn't easy either. Like Elroy had personally flown to the 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.840 French Italian border and he delivered the bottles in a 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.720 bulletproof case and and then he barely carried out the 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.440 experiment a mile underground. And this was to prevent interference 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.440 from atmospheric gamma rays like it was just way more 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.560 complicated than taking a closer look at the glass. But 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.320 in the end, Elroy was able to prove the bottles 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.920 were fraudulent, and in two thousand six Bill Coke followed 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.480 the lawsuit against Hardy Rodenstock in New York. You know, 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.000 the timing of all of this is also super interesting 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.720 because it was around this same time, you know, you'd 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:08.720 be looking at the opposite side of the country that 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.680 probably the most notorious wine counterfeiter to date was just 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.880 starting to come into his own. Yeah. I mean, I'm 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.359 guessing you're talking about Rudy, right, Yeah, So this is 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.080 Rudy carneiloh one. And for those who aren't familiar with 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.360 his story, Rudy was this mysterious young wine collector who 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.720 made a name for himself in the l A wine scene. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.200 And this was in the early two thousand's. And I 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.040 say mysterious because he sort of came out of nowhere 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.000 and nobody really knew much about him at the time. Now, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.760 this should have raised some suspicions in this upper crust 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.600 and the wine circles there that he managed to infiltrate, 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.920 but you know, most of his new friends chose to 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.600 ignore the mystery just on account of his deep pockets. 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.320 He would often pay the bill at these lavish dinners 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.199 and wine tastings, you know, for all the other enthusiasts 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.520 that were there, and he seemed to have this knack 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.680 for tracking down these hard to come by vintages and 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.119 and to get them at these uncommonly good price. Of course, again, 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.320 these folks should have and suspicious rudy, but they weren't. Yeah, 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:04.080 I mean, he's sort of like that guy who made 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.359 the room, Like nobody knew where he was from or 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.119 how he got his money. But hey, he's generous and 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.080 fun of me around, so why rock the boat with 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.440 any questions? Yeah, I mean, that seems to be what 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.720 was going on, and it was really all about the 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:18.600 wine for the people that he ran with. For instance, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.240 one of the group's rudy frequented was called angry Men, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.600 and they called themselves that because of how mad they 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.680 would get whenever they took a nice bottle of wine 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.040 to a party, only to find out that everyone else 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.840 had brought the cheap stuff, you know, So that these 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.040 angry Men dinners, all the guests would bring these really 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.000 fancy and expensive bottles of wine, and everyone would just 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.240 get schlaushed, and they would drink as much as like 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.080 two hundred thousand dollars worth of wine in a single evening. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.960 Two dollars that's insane. Yeah, I haven't drunk that much 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:52.919 in one night ever. Yes, yeah, dropping those big bills. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.840 But you know, it wasn't long before Rudy got into 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.000 the auction scene and and sort of became the go 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.040 to guy for rare Burgundy, and he was buying and 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.920 selling some of the finest wines of the twentieth century 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.440 and making bank in the process. And his biggest payday 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.640 came in two thousand and six when he sold almost 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:14.520 twenty five million dollars worth of wine in a single auction. Now, 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.800 the previous sales record had been something like fifteen million, 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.000 so we're talking a huge gain on that. But the 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.520 writing was already on the wall. So a year or 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.359 two later, a bunch of bottles of this rare burgundy 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.159 from the domain Ponsant wine House. They began to appear, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.200 with vintages dating between nineteen forty five and nineteen seventy one, 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.359 and the head of this winery, Lauren Posas, found this 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:38.879 to be exceptionally odd because his family hadn't started making 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.800 this particular red wine until nineteen eighty two. So, knowing 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.160 something was up, he launched his own international investigation into 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.119 Rudy's shady dealings. Now, he did this mostly as a 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.320 way to defend the good name of Burgundy. As he 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.240 later told a reporter, the fakes are like a piece 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.720 of dirt on the name of Burgundy, and I wanted 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.920 to wash it off. I mean, that's funny growing from 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.679 a wine growing region, like the idea of dirt on 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:06.119