1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: At a time when presidential lawlessness is a consuming question 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: of the day, we thought we could revisit a time 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: when executive lawbreaking was well, far more amusing enter very 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: special episodes seemingly favorite political curiosity Richard Nixon. But this 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: story isn't about Watergate or the White House plumbers, and 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: it's not about the Saturday night massacre at the Department 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: of Justice. It's not even about Nixon's famous Checkers the 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: Dog speech and the related slush fun scandal. With Nixon, 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: there are so many dodgy dealings, but this criminal tale 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: comes from his international hopscotching days as the Vice President 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: of America. That's when, according to a long running legend, 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: then Vice President Richard Nixon allegedly muled a suitcase filled 13 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: with marijuana through US customs for the jazz legend and 14 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: noted pothead Louis Armstrong. This story is according to street 15 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: leg whispered rumors, and of course, social media. You can 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: find this story repeated online. While the details may vary, 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: the story is essentially the same. But the big question remains, 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: could it possibly be true? In order to revisit this 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: long whispered crime legend and to separate fact from fiction. 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: I spoke with my favorite person to discuss all things Nixon, 21 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: or crime or jazz. My Pop's Zeke Burnette. Welcome to 22 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: very special episodes and iHeart original podcast. I'm your host, 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: Zaren Burnett. And this is Richard Nixon's Magic Suitcase. 24 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: Welcome back to very special episodes. She's Danis Schwartz. Hey, 25 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: he's Aaron Burnette. 26 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: I'm Jason English. 27 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 2: Today we're gonna really dig in on a. 28 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: Piece of historical trivia. 29 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: I've seen bats around the internet many times over many years. 30 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: Love that your dad is back. 31 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: I have to say I never heard this rumor and 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 4: it had delighted me to no end. This is one 33 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 4: that you want to just tell everyone, you know. I 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 4: love it so much. 35 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: I know people may be listening to going another Nixon story, Yes, 36 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: another Nixon story, but this one, like all Nixon stories, 37 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: it really kind of illuminates the intersections of both the 38 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: ideals and the reality of Americas. I like that about 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: Nixon for this one. 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly how Nixon became kind of our 42 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: patron saint here. I think it was very organic that 43 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: someone pointed out, like, hey, did you guys know you 44 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 2: mentioned Richard Nixon in like six of the last seven episodes, 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: and so at that point we've kind of leaned into it. 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 2: So I'm glad we got nice, meaty Nixon story, not 47 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: just him on the periphery for this one. 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a Nixon crime story. You don't expect pop. 49 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: Are you familiar with the story of Louis Armstrong running 50 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: into Richard Nixon while he was on his goodwill ambassador 51 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 1: tour in nineteen fifty. 52 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 5: Eight, Yes, I yeah, the story the way it came 53 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 5: down to me, Louis Armstrong become a friend of Eisenhower 54 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 5: in the fifties. 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: That was during the era when jazz was bumping up 56 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: against the conventions of music, and jazz musicians were playing 57 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: around with the fast and phrenetic developments of the sound 58 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: of bebop. 59 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 6: Think of the. 60 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: Style of Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Thelonious Monk, and the 61 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: young Miles Davis and John Coltrane. The sounds they created 62 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: reflected the go go energy of the mid century. It 63 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: was propulsive, it was atomic, it was quantum, it was multiracial, 64 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: it was drug fuel. It was anti establishment. It was cool, 65 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: it was hip, it was sexy. And it was also 66 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: a threat to men like Richard Nixon. That's why men 67 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: like Nixon preferred the swing music and siren voice singers 68 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: from the days before America dropped the atomic bomb. They 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: preferred string arrangements and the melodies of a simpler time. 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: If they even went for jazz, the wildest they'd go 71 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: for was Benny Goodman's swing music. But when Jeane Krupa 72 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: started the song sing Sing Sang with that deep and 73 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: crazed drum solo, that might be a bit too much, 74 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: a bit too spicy for their tastes. Or when Cab 75 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: Calloway did his Harlem nightclub act that was too sexy, 76 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: too cochi. When folks like Nixon thought of jazz music, 77 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: that usually meant Louis Armstrong. 78 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 6: Now that was some. 79 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: All American jazz. That was the good old sound they loved. 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: And that's also why Richard Nixon, or so the story goes, 81 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: was proud to call Louis Armstrong a friend. But equally, 82 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: like the other jazz cats, Louis Armstrong was also an 83 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: all American pothead. Pops didn't go anywhere without some of 84 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: that gauge on him. He was the Willie Nelson of 85 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: the jazz scenes. He smoked all the time, and everyone 86 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: in the note was aware of it, which most certainly 87 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: did not include his pal Richard Nixon. The nineteen fifties 88 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: they get a bad rap. They get painted as a 89 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: vanilla time of mass consumerism, advertising jingles, suburban conformity, and 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: postwar prosperity. The naughtiest thing going was found in the 91 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: pages of Playboy or heard in the birth of rock 92 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: and roll. But this is not exactly true, like not 93 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: at all. The most popular music of the nineteen twenties, 94 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: thirties and forties was jazz and then swing, but the 95 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: music had gone through many different sounds, tempos, and flavors, 96 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: yet it was all jazz until the bebop players came along. 97 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: They took the solos of the swing era and turned 98 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: that into the focus of the song. That cleared out 99 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: the dance floors, which means the audiences went looking for 100 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: new sounds to dance to, and they found R and 101 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: B that quickly turned into early rock and roll. And 102 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: that's how the nineteen fifties found a new swing, a 103 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: new sound, a new beat, a new rhythm, and a 104 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: new spirit of the times. Think Buddy Holly the Big 105 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,119 Speaker 1: Bopper and Richie Vallence, Think Chuck Berry and Elvis Little 106 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis. But on the big screen 107 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: there was also a new sensuality. Think Marlon Brando and 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, and Jane Russell. Overseas, there were 109 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: the films of Fellini, which were sensual dreams put to celluloid. 110 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: In the wider world of art, there was the painter 111 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: Jackson Pollock, who'd given up brushing paint onto a canvas 112 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: back in the forties. Instead he'd fling it, flick it, 113 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: drizzle it, and drip it. He brought the same unconstrained 114 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: sensuality to the plastic act of creating art. The nineteen 115 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: fifties in America were not square. They were not sub 116 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: dude in vanilla or as cookie cutter as you've been told. 117 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: The fifties were a riotous time. What we think of 118 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: as the chaos and turbulence and craziness and revolution of 119 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties began in the nineteen fifties. Think of 120 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties as the teenage years of the zeitgeist, 121 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: before the spirit of the times went off to college 122 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties. The nineteen fifties were most certainly 123 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: a new time, a new chapter in America, and that's 124 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: how President Eisenhower's administration came up with the idea to 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: send jazz musicians around the world as cultural ambassadors. At 126 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: the same time America was squelching its own civil rights 127 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: movement and the related protests, marches, sit ins, and bus boycotts, 128 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: the Eisenhower administration sent black Americans abroad to talk about 129 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: how Western style capitalism was way better than communism. That's 130 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: what Louis Armstrong was doing in ninety teen fifty eight 131 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: when he was at the airport returning home to the 132 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: USA after a tour selling American freedom around the world. 133 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: The trouble was Satchmo was secretly smuggling a stupid large 134 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: amount of pot in his luggage, and he didn't know 135 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: how he'd get through customs without getting busted. 136 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 6: And then boom entered Richard Nixon, or so the story goes. Again. 137 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: This is a crime legend, the sort of story that 138 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: was shared in smoky after hours jazz clubs after the 139 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: crowds have gone home, and it's just the musician sitting 140 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: around swapping stories and passing a bottle. You'd only hear 141 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: it from people who'd hung around spaces like that after 142 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: hours joints and the kinds of nightclubs were black comics 143 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: performed for black crowds. That's how I heard this story 144 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: from my pops. 145 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 5: The one people we talked about that were people in 146 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 5: the life, you know, jazz musicians, people who are supposed 147 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 5: to being to know, drug dealersts, gamblers, people like that 148 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 5: black politician. 149 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,359 Speaker 1: As this story traveled through those smoky and shadowed places, 150 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: of course, it was never fact checked. It existed long 151 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: before the Internet, so there was no way to know 152 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: if it was true or not. And then once the 153 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: Internet came along, it had become an urban myth and 154 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: then a meme. But did then Vice President Richard Nixon 155 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: really mule an obscene amount of marijuana through customs for 156 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong today will investigate this strange and curious crime legend. 157 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: Could it possibly be true? Well, good news, we found 158 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: the truth. In the nineteen fifties, jazz music was popular, 159 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: and not just in the United States. This gave the 160 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: US ambassador to the Soviet Union and idea, how about 161 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: an international jazz radio show on January sixth, nineteen fifty five, 162 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: Voice of America premiered Music USA to broadcast jazz to 163 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: the world. To say it was a hit as an understatement, 164 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: According to historian Penny von Eshen, quote, in nineteen fifty five, 165 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: it reached an estimated thirty million people in eighty countries, 166 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: a number that would more than triple to one hundred 167 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: million over the next decade. The State Department saw this 168 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: fan base as an opportunity to win hearts and minds, 169 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: so in nineteen fifty six, the US sponsored a Dizzy 170 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: Gillespie tour of the Middle East, South Asia, and the Balkans, 171 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: and for years would continue sponsoring jazz musicians to spread 172 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: the joys of music and America. But everyone knew who 173 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: the big draw was. As The New York Times noted 174 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: in late nineteen fifty five, quote, America's secret weapon is 175 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: a blue note in a minor key. Right now, the 176 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: United States' most effective ambassador is Louis Satchmo Armstrong, while 177 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: he won't technically become an ambassador until later. That's how, 178 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: according to legend, Nixon found himself doing some light drug muling. 179 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 5: So America want to underwrite a world tour for Louis 180 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 5: Armstrong as a cultural ambassador. 181 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: Being a good American, Louis Armstrong takes the gig. He 182 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: sells the idea that America means freedom and excellence in 183 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: jazz and cool. 184 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 5: He went to London in France, to Germany, I think, Italy, 185 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 5: and cup other countries. 186 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: Finally, after his globe Trekking Sachmo flew home to Idlewild 187 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: Airport in New York. Since it was an international trip, 188 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: he was directed to customs. Louis Armstrong didn't expect that. 189 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: Perhaps he thought when he returned home to America there 190 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: would be no customs line for the returning goodwill ambassador, 191 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: but there was. He was to wait in line, just 192 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: like any other American. Ironically, it was a terrible time 193 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: to be treated equally and so standing there in the 194 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: customs line, Louis Armstrong started to sweat because. 195 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 5: He had three pounds of herb in the suitcase and 196 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 5: there was no way to get out of line, so 197 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 5: he was really trapped and moving towards the moving saw. 198 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: According to legend, three pounds of pot supposedly stashed in 199 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: the suitcase. Of course, getting busted in the customs line 200 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: would be a bad look for the Goodwill Ambassador. It 201 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: would certainly do no favors to his booking schedule, not 202 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: to mention, if a judge wanted to, they could easily 203 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: lock up the Jazz Icon behind bars as a cautionary 204 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: tale and throw away the key. Just as he's about 205 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: to have a coronary event from worry and from fear, 206 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong looked up to see the source of an 207 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: incoming excitement in the airport. It was a cluster of 208 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: journalists circling someone even more famous than him. 209 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 5: And right before he got there, he saw the Secret 210 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 5: Service came out of another door and a bustle, so 211 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 5: everything came to a stop. 212 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong spotted at the center of this hubbub his 213 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: old friend Richard Nixon. 214 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 5: And Richard Nixon was vice president then, and he saw 215 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 5: Louis Armstrong. 216 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: The two mid century icons met eyes. It was a 217 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: most fortuitous moment for Sachmo. 218 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 5: Because Nixon was already planning to run for president, so 219 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 5: he's always trying to get photo ops that would make 220 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 5: him seem like a decent guy. So when I was hey, Sasimo, 221 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 5: what are you doing here? And Sashmo said man, Pops. 222 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 5: They wanted, they wanted, They want me to have to 223 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 5: go through customs. They say, oh no, not you. You 224 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 5: an ambassador, you don't go through customs. 225 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: And with that, Louis Armstrong handed over his luggage with 226 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: the possible three pounds of pots stuffed inside to the 227 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: then Vice president, and he let Richard Nixon carry his 228 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: marijuana into America, or so the story goes. In the 229 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: book Miles on Miles Interviews and Encounters with Miles Davis, 230 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: you can find this same story repeated in that book. 231 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: We Hear a story Miles Davis supposedly told about Nixon 232 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,359 Speaker 1: the drug mule. He credits the keyboard player Tommy Flanagan 233 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: as the one who told him the story the way 234 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: Miles told it, the group of musicians were together waiting 235 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: in the VIP lounge, but it wasn't at Idlewild, New York. Instead, 236 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: he said they were in Paris at Orly Airport. That's 237 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: when they spotted Vice President Richard Nixon walk into the scene. 238 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: Secret Service guards the whole bit. As the Miles on 239 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: Miles book recounts the legendary encounter. 240 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 3: When he saw. 241 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 7: Satchmo, the Vice President immediately rushed up to him and 242 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 7: almost getting down on his knees, grabbed Forsatchmo's hand as 243 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 7: if to kiss it. Slobbery all over Satchmo. Nixon began 244 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 7: teller Satchmo what a national monument? Satchmo? Was you like 245 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 7: the statue of Liberty? Your national treasure? I'm your biggest fan, 246 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 7: mister Armstrong. 247 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: Obviously, this is a very different version of events and 248 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: by far the most colorful telling of the tale, back 249 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: to Miles Davis and the Tommy Flanagan version of the story. 250 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 7: When the flight was announced and everybody started getting up 251 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 7: to board the plane, Nixon kept asking, are you sure 252 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 7: there's nothing I can do for you, mister Armstrong. 253 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 6: The band had a lot of luggage. 254 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: Louis picked up a couple of. 255 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 7: Pieces and handed them to Nixon, saying, yeah, would you 256 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 7: mind carrying these, mister Vice President. 257 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: From that point it's pretty much the same story. Nixon 258 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: unknowingly smuggles Louis Armstrong's pot. Now we have at least 259 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: two different versions taking place in two different airports, but 260 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: with generally the same gist. Obviously, this is going to 261 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: require some investigation to get at the truth. For now, 262 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: let's take a break listen to some ads. When we 263 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: get back, we'll talk Louis Armstrong and his mid century 264 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: fight for two of his passions, civil rights and his 265 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: love of pot. When you hear a story about the 266 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: vice president of the United States smuggling contraband for a 267 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: black jazz musician in the nineteen fifties, typically you might 268 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: focus your attention on the vice president. That would be 269 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: a mistake. The real story here is the jazz man 270 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong, both his love of pot, but also why 271 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: he was being sent around the world as an exemplar 272 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: of American freedom at a time when he could not 273 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: fully enjoy those freedoms, and yet he was willing to 274 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: travel around the world and advertise for his racist home country. 275 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: Why what did he possibly know that allowed Louis Armstrong 276 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: to look past all the bigotry back home. Well, for one, 277 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: he knew what it was like to be raised in 278 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: New Orleans just past the turn of the twentieth century. 279 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: He knew what it was like to be a disrespected 280 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: black child and a nation meant for white men. But 281 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: he also knew, thanks to his efforts and the efforts 282 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: of other Americans like him, the words of America's founding 283 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: documents were being made more and more true with each 284 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: passing day. That's why he trumpeted quite literally for America. 285 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 5: He had two different positions the peculiarity of his popularity. 286 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 5: He was so popular across every line that he was 287 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 5: a good ambassador for. 288 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 3: America before the world. 289 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 5: And he was such a stilling example of black excellence. 290 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 5: He was a good example for us before our country. 291 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: That's who he was. Louis Armstrong was gifted with a big, 292 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: beautiful spirit. 293 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 5: All the musicians he ever met talked about how generous 294 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 5: he was with his time, that he always had time 295 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 5: for musicians, like you know, I said, yeah, man, come 296 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 5: on in and said out, and that they would talk. 297 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 5: They would feel guilty about how long how much time 298 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 5: he was taking. He said, where you gonna learn this 299 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 5: from me? 300 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 6: If you don't learn it from. 301 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 5: Me, So it's not like that sort of time when 302 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 5: you want the lesson or not. So he was really 303 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 5: good about that, and he didn't pretend everything was okay 304 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 5: in America. 305 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: He was honest with himself and with others about the 306 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: state of America as well as the progress of America. 307 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 6: He did not expect. 308 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: America to be healed of its racial animus overnight, possibly 309 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: not even in his lifetime. He knew it was a process, 310 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: a long march, a rising tide, and he believed that Americans, 311 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: regardless of color or creed, were his extended family, and 312 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: so he approached the problems of America the way one 313 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: confronts the issues that devil a large family. 314 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 5: He talked about it all the time. They talked about 315 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 5: it like you're talking about your family. When you've got 316 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 5: family problems. You're not criticizing the people next door. You're 317 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 5: criticizing your brother. You criticizing your uncle. And that's what 318 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 5: he was always dealing, criticizing his uncle and his brothers, 319 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 5: as opposed to what a lot of black activists were doing. 320 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 5: They were criticizing the strangers. And to him, they said, no, 321 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 5: we're all Americans. We're not strangers. So we've got some 322 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 5: differences that we have to work out. 323 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: That is the belief of a generous spirit. We've got 324 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: some differences that we have to work out, which also 325 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: required constant conversation about the issues that matter, engagement rather 326 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: than outrage. 327 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 6: But he also wasn't. 328 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: Above honest and biting criticism of America and the nation's 329 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 1: failures to faithfully follow the words of the Constitution. In 330 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: the press, he would speak truth to power and do 331 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: so in his ever recognizable gravelly. At one point, Louis 332 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: Armstrong says in an interview, the. 333 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 8: Way they are treating by people in the South, the 334 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 8: government couldn't go to hell. He's getting so bad. The 335 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 8: cold man, i'dn't gotten any country. 336 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 6: But Louis Armstrong didn't give up hope. 337 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: Instead, he used his unique position in American life and 338 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: his celebrity as a beloved jazz man to influence the 339 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: events of the day as best he could. 340 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 6: For instance, when school. 341 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: Segregation was ruled illegal in the United States, southern public 342 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: schools located below the Mason Dixon line were forced to 343 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: desegregate as a result of the nineteen fifty four Supreme 344 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: Court decision Brown for the Board of Education. At the 345 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: time when there was a tremendous backlash and protests and 346 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: violent as a result of the Supreme Court decision, Louis 347 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: Armstrong was on the front lines of that fight. Only 348 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: he wasn't on the protest lines. He was on the 349 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: phone line to the President of the United States, Dwight D. 350 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: Eisenhower in nineteen fifty five, the Little Rock School Board 351 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: voted to comply with the Supreme Court. The superintendent of 352 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: Schools planned to desegregate the public schools in Little Rock 353 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: starting in nineteen fifty seven. When the new school year 354 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: rolled around in September, the National Association for the Advancement 355 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: of Colored People aka the NAACP helped to enroll a 356 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: group of students at the Little Rock Central High School 357 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: and now formerly all white school. In response, the Governor 358 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: of Arkansas, Orville Faubus, called in the Arkansas National Guard 359 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: to quote preserve the peace, but most reasonable folks understood 360 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: the governor's move was meant to block the school children 361 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: from attending the high school. The governor claimed the black 362 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: school children had to be barred based on the threats 363 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: of imminent danger of tumult. 364 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 6: Riot, and breach of peace. 365 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: Seeing all this go down on the nightly news, the 366 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,239 Speaker 1: story goes Louis Armstrong phone to the President to discuss it. 367 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Since he was a cultural ambassador, he could call the 368 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: President directly speak with him about his concerns and the 369 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: developments in Little Rock, Arkansas. 370 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 5: There was one report that one of the White House 371 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 5: secretaries told her family that Lewis Armstrong had called the 372 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 5: White House to talk to Eisenhower about Little Rock and 373 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 5: that Eisenhower was deflecting, saying, you know it's the atturnity 374 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 5: Attorney General was looking at that. 375 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 3: Now we got this, we got that. 376 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 5: Lewis said, you must not have no grandchildren, because if 377 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 5: you did, you wouldn't be moving so slow. Those were 378 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 5: your grandchildren down there. You wouldn't be moving so slow. 379 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 5: You wouldn't be talking about the Justice Department. 380 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 3: You be on the. 381 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 5: Phone sending out the military protecting those people. You know 382 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 5: you would. That's all. Now, I'm not gonna argue about it. 383 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 5: That's all she said. I couldn't believe it because the President 384 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 5: took it. He didn't hang up, he didn't start hollering back. 385 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 5: He said hmm. Then they entered the call. But I 386 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 5: think the next day they sent out the troops to Litora. 387 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: The key distinction in his approach to criticizing Power was 388 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: to speak to the president man to man, father to father, 389 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: American to American. 390 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 5: But he's the first one that made it personal. After 391 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 5: that point, it had been a matter of obligation, responsibility, 392 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 5: states rights, all kinds of bullshit. They were thrown in. 393 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 5: Lewis made, for instance, you must don't have no grandchildren 394 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 5: that you worry about. 395 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: The Next day, after his call with Louis Armstrong, the 396 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 1: President of the United States made a call of his own. 397 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: He later federalized the National Guard and ordered the troops 398 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: to protect the Little Rock Nine and ensure they were 399 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: safely escorted the class in their new school. Those nine 400 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: school kids' names are Melva Pattillo'biles, Felma Mother's Head, Minnie, 401 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: Jean Brown, Gloria Ray, Carl Mark, Carlotta Walls, Lanier, Terrence Roberts, 402 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Eckford, Jefferson Thomas, and Ernest Green I say R. 403 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: Since seven of the Little Rock Nine are still with us, 404 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: only two of them have passed, this chapter of American 405 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: history is still alive and breathing. 406 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 3: Now. 407 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: Since he had this direct access to the President, Louis 408 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: Armstrong may have leveraged that access to advocate for another 409 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: cause near and dear to his heart. Pot smoking. Louis 410 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Armstrong was a huge pothead. He smoked every day and 411 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: credited with helping him to deal with the stress of 412 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: being a black man in mid century America. In fact, 413 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: he considered a requirement for his way of life, and 414 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong said, Jesus agrees with him. Trouble for him was, 415 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: pott was very much illegal in nineteen fifties America, but 416 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong thought he had a solution to that particular prohibition. 417 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: According to Street Legend and also High Times Magazine, Louis 418 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: Armstrong asked his manager to send a letter to his 419 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: good friend to the President, Dwight D. Eisenhower, to ask 420 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: if he could grant Louis Armstrong a waiver to grow 421 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: his own and smoke it. You see, Satchmo had supposedly 422 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: heard from another friend to his singer Bing Crosby, who 423 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: was also a big time pot smoker, that he had 424 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: some sort of federal waiver that kept him safe from prosecution. 425 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: So Louis asked Ike for that same protection so he 426 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: could enjoy his smoke too. Not long after, he ran 427 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: into Nixon at the airport in Idlewhile when he allowed 428 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: the vice president to smoke a pot into America for him. 429 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong was over in Hawaii living the good life, 430 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: staying with his wife in Waikiki. After returning from Japan, 431 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: customs officials found one whole marijuana cigarette and two marijuana 432 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: cigarette stubbs. In the cosmetic case of Armstrong's wife, Lucille, 433 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: she was arrested, pleads guilty and is fined two hundred dollars, 434 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: though half of that gets waved because Louis was doing 435 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: a benefit performance for the March of Dimes. Either way, 436 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong was pissed, so he contacted his manager, a 437 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: mob connected force of personality, and he asked him to 438 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: do whatever he had to do so that Satchmo could 439 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: smoke pot whenever and wherever he wanted and without fear 440 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: of police or customs agents. 441 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 5: Lewis Armstrong wanted a license to smoke pot. He wrote 442 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 5: his manager said, you can work this out for him 443 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 5: and get me a permission. I can smoke anywhere I 444 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 5: want to, any time I want to. 445 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: In his letter to his manager lawyer, Louis Armstrong wrote. 446 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 9: Mister Glazer, you must see to it that I have 447 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 9: special permission to smoke all the reefers that I want 448 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 9: to when I want to, or I will just have 449 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 9: to put this one down. 450 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 8: That's all I can gladly vouch for a nice Fats 451 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 8: took a gauge which relaxes my nerves. If I have 452 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 8: any I can't afford to be dense fear in that 453 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 8: any minute I'm gonna be arrested brought to jail for 454 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 8: a silly, little minor fig like marijuana. 455 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: However, this rationale and expectation that he could have something 456 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: like a license to smoke pot helps explain why Louis 457 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: Armstrong might be flying around the world in the nineteen 458 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: fifties with pounds of pot in his luggage, thinking he 459 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: was pretty safe from prosecution for any minor marijuana based 460 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: in fractions, and of course that was not true. When 461 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: you say it out loud, three pounds of pot that 462 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: is a sizable amount. It also raises an interesting question 463 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: how did Louis hide his pot? Was he actually smuggling 464 00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: it or did he just have it kind of floating 465 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: around his luggage? Is kind of loose now, since both 466 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: my father and I have had our experiences with smuggling 467 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: pot around America, I had to ask my pops how 468 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: he might smuggle that much pot if he had to. 469 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 5: Partly inside of a pillow. A lot of guys those 470 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 5: days took their own pillows. They didn't trust hotel pillow 471 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 5: and never smuggle everything inside the pillow. 472 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: Three pounds, though, that's enough to fill a pillowcase or two, 473 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: depending on the size of the pillows. Do that often 474 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: enough and get away with it? And yeah, you might 475 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: think you'd always slide by, but that was very much 476 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: not the case. Okay, let's take a little break. When 477 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: we're back, we'll separate fact from fiction and figure out 478 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: if this crime legend really did happen or not. There's 479 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: an interesting corollary to Louis Armstrong asking the President of 480 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,239 Speaker 1: the United States for a license to smoke pot. A 481 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: decade later, a pill popping Elvis Presley would ask then 482 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: President Richard Nixon for the same sort of license, Only 483 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: Elvis asked Nixon for a Bureau of Narcotics badge. You see, 484 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: the King had promised the President he could help with 485 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: the war on drugs. His plan was to travel the 486 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: country investigating countercultures and well, it's not quite clear what 487 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: actually he'd be doing. 488 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 6: But all he needed was a badge. 489 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: That way, he could be like a floating dea agent 490 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: able to operate in the. 491 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 6: World of rock and roll. 492 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 3: Aganova's on the case. 493 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: Unfortunately for the King, Nixon followed Eisenhower's lead and didn't 494 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: hand out a license for a star like Elvis to 495 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: be above the law. Okay, back to Louis Armstrong. So far, 496 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: we've heard at least two versions of the legend of 497 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong asking then Vice President Richard Nixon to mule 498 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: his marijuana through customs. Now it's time for a third version. 499 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: This time it comes from a Nixon confidant, the former 500 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: Trump advisor Roger Stone. In his book Nixon's Secrets, The Rise, 501 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: Paul and Untold Truth about the President, Watergate and the Pardon, 502 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: Stone also recounts the story of the pop smuggling as 503 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: he heard it. Of course, his version is told from 504 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: the perspective of Nixon. According to Roger Stone, the story goes. 505 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,479 Speaker 10: Just then the door swung open and Vice President Richard Nixon, 506 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 10: in step with his security detail, swept in the room, 507 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 10: followed by a gaggle of reporters and photographers. Nixon, seeing 508 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 10: an opportunity for a wire photo with Armstrong, went up 509 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 10: to the jazz man satch moo, what are you doing here? 510 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 10: A surprise Nixon asked, well, Pops, Armstrong called everyone, Pops, 511 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 10: I just came back from my goodwill ambassador's tour of Asia, 512 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 10: and they told me I had to stand in this 513 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 10: line for customs. Nixon grabbed both of Satchmo's suitcases. Ambassadors 514 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 10: don't have to go through customs, and the Vice President 515 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 10: of the United States will gladly carry you bags for you, 516 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 10: Nixon said, whereupon the Vice President muled three pounds of 517 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 10: pop through United States customs without ever knowing it. 518 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: That's essentially the same story, with many of the same details, 519 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: obviously different from the version Miles Davis tells, but the 520 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: rough outline is the same. So does this give the 521 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: story more credibility? Well, not necessarily, However, Roger Stone does 522 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: attempt to imbue it with an insider's account and a 523 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: certainty that it did happen. In fact, Stone adds to 524 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: his version that. 525 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 10: When Nixon was told what happened by Charles mcwater, who 526 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 10: served as a traveling aid to Nixon, who heard the 527 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 10: tale from one of the jazz musicians traveling with Satchmo, 528 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 10: a startled Nixon exclaimed, Louis smokes. 529 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 6: Marijuana beyond the punchline. 530 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: He adds to the story in an article exerted from 531 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: the book. Roger Stone also includes a photo of Nixon 532 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: and Louis Armstrong posing together. Ostensibly, this is a shot 533 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: from the reputed pot mule moment in Idlewild Airport, which 534 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: is now JFK Airport, Except the photo used for publicity 535 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: materials for his book was taken in July nineteen fifty seven, 536 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: and it wasn't taken in upstate New York. Instead, it 537 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: was snapped in Washington, DC. At that time, Louis Armstrong 538 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: was in DC after he'd had lunch with the VP. 539 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: We know this since the photo ran in newspapers across 540 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: the country. Why this matters is that in Roger Stone's 541 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: version of events, Nixon had muled the pot for Louis 542 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: Armstrong in nineteen fifty eight. And why that date matters 543 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: is that in nineteen fifty eight we know that Louis 544 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: Armstrong didn't leave the United States. He did not travel 545 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: the world as a cultural ambassador. Indeed, according to Louis 546 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: Armstrong historian Ricky Riccardi, and contrary to almost every version 547 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: of the story, his first State Department cultural ambassador tour 548 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: started in nineteen sixty when he toured Africa. But in 549 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty eight, Louis Armstrong was Stateside, which means he 550 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't have had any reason to be in an airport 551 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: in Idlewild, New York or Paris, France, with or without 552 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon and three pounds of pot in his luggage. 553 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: And remember how Miles Davis got his information from Tommy Flanagan. 554 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,239 Speaker 1: Ricardi throws cold water on that as well, saying that 555 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: Flanagan never even played with Louis Armstrong. So does that 556 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: mean that Richard Nixon never smuggled pot into America for 557 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong, Well, the evidence just isn't there. Louis Armstrong's 558 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: biographers have never found evidence of this story, and we 559 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: know Louis Armstrong certainly told plenty of stories, both true 560 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: and exaggerated. Satchmo recorded seven hundred and fifty private takes 561 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: of him just talking and telling stories, and not one 562 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: of them ever mentions Richard Nixon and Pott smuggling. You'd 563 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: think that might come up. Since the facts don't support 564 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: the story, all we seemed to be left with is 565 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: the pleasing fiction along the way to the truth. I 566 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: asked my pops about a different pleasing fiction, namely, if 567 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: you could imagine what it would have been like getting 568 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: high with Louis Armstrong. 569 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, yeah, I sure could. I sure could. I 570 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 5: could imagine that brazen. I could imagine the environment in 571 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 5: which it would happen. It would be either in a 572 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 5: dressing room or in a nightclub after your clothes. 573 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 6: And what about the other star of this crime legend? 574 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: Could my pops imagine getting high with Richard Nixon? 575 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 5: No, I can't imagine sitting on a bust with Richard Nixon. 576 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 5: I was actually in a building where he was. Your 577 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 5: mother was too. 578 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: I'd never heard this story before, never knew that my 579 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: parents had both been in the same room as Richard Nixon, 580 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: who was the president at the time. It was nineteen 581 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: seventy two and the President was visiting with hurricane relief 582 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: efforts that my parents were helping out with as volunteers 583 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: at the time. 584 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 5: My pops was working with the administrators trying to get 585 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 5: stuff done, trying to get supplies in and get cars 586 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 5: and people are going to pick up stuff. Then this 587 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 5: guy comes running in, so I said, okay, it's one 588 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 5: more person who lost his mind. And then just like 589 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 5: at a while, the doors opened to the school we know, 590 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 5: the double doors opened, and the Secret Service swept in, 591 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 5: and Nixon came in wearing the most beautiful cashmere top 592 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 5: coat you ever saw in a room full of hurricane victims. 593 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: Of all the stories, this one sounds like Richard Nixon, because, 594 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: as my pops always told me, there was one thing 595 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: you knew right away about President Nixon. 596 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 5: He didn't give a at all, and you could feel it. 597 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 5: You could feel that he really loved America, but he 598 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 5: didn't give us by the Americans like a king. 599 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 3: Think of that subject the other day, think of the 600 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 3: subjects as the same as them. Nicklon looked like that, which. 601 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: To me ultimately supports the idea of the legend that 602 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: Nixon would or could mule pot for Louis Armstrong, because 603 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: essentially Nixon always believed he was above the law, and 604 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: thus he could extend that to his friends. But that's 605 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: not evidence that the pot smuggling ever happened. As for 606 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: Louis Armstrong, he also believed that, as far as Pott 607 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: was concerned, he was or should have been, above the law. 608 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: The two men shared that attitude. Or as Sachmo put it. 609 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 8: I don't drink and have never once thought of using 610 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 8: a needle, but I can gladly vowed for a night's 611 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 8: fat stick, a gauge which relaxes my nerves if I 612 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 8: have any, because get megea nothing but medicine. 613 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: While the facts certainly don't support the story, the reason 614 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: this crime legend lives on is because it has all 615 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: the right elements and it's just plain fun to imagine. 616 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: But the lasting truth should be that Louis Armstrong was 617 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: a real American, the sort of man who had both 618 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: a generous and forgiving spirit and bravery to speak truth 619 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: to power, and as such he is a powerful example 620 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: and symbol of the America were still trying to become 621 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: Pot or no Pot. 622 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 5: They had an album Ambassador Satch. He was on the 623 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 5: Comfort in tails and a top hat with his horn. 624 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 5: We were proud of him, Yeah, because he went as himself. 625 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 5: He was in the same way the government used Joe Lewis. 626 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 5: There are people in the government who use Louis Armstrong, 627 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 5: but he wasn't complicit in the use. 628 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: Instead, Louis was trying in his way to get us 629 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: closer to being free through protection of our rights and 630 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: the freedom to be a big time stoner. That's very 631 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: different from the legacy of Nixon and his lawlessness, which 632 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: goes to show not all outlaws should be seen in 633 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: the same light. There's Nixon and then there's Satchmo, and 634 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: they represent two very different expressions of American freedom. And 635 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: that's the most lasting truth, the one that we can 636 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: take away from this very strange legend of Nixon's smuggling 637 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: pot for Louis Armstrong, Oh what a wonderful world. 638 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 2: Indeed, Zaron is always great to hear you and your 639 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,320 Speaker 2: dad back on the mic together. If anyone hasn't listened 640 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: to Black Cowboys, which came out four or five years ago, 641 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 2: but was a great podcast with Zaren and his dad 642 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: telling the true stories behind the legends of the West. 643 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 2: And Zaren, I'm hearing that we might be able to 644 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 2: see some of you talking about those stories soon. What's 645 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 2: going on with this peacock rumor what? 646 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 647 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Jordan Peele's company reached out to me thanks 648 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,279 Speaker 1: to Black Cowboys podcast, and you're like, hey, would you 649 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 1: do a documentary or doing an interview for our documentary series? 650 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: And they're doing a whole thing about the Black West. 651 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: It's a three part documentary, and I was pretty stoked. 652 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: It's got a lot of great talking heads and I 653 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: was just glad to be one. I felt bad almost 654 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: went should I call my pop? Do you want him 655 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: to come through? Because he could really he drop some 656 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: knowledge on y'all. 657 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to see you. I can't wait to 658 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 4: hear you talk about it. 659 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:25,919 Speaker 1: Oh man, it was a lot of fun. They would 660 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: make like a whole little like mini set behind me, 661 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: like they just arranged it. And I was like, how 662 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: does this look? And I was like, I think everything 663 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: was great except for me, but everything else looks great. 664 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 3: It's incredible. 665 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 2: Well, we're plugging things, Dana. I have all over social media. 666 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 2: I'm seeing pictures of you unboxing books. Are we allowed 667 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 2: to talk about that here? 668 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:42,800 Speaker 8: Yes? 669 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 4: If we're plugging things, I have a new book coming 670 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 4: out May nineteenth, twenty twenty six. It's called The Arcane Arts. 671 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 4: It's sexy magic professor student grad School. If any of 672 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 4: those words of plto you should absolutely pre order. I 673 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 4: wrote it under a pseudon SD coverly because it's a 674 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 4: little sexier than my historical Ya novels, and also because 675 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 4: I co wrote it with a friend of mine, Dan. 676 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 4: I would write originally the female point of view, and 677 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 4: then we swap chapters and he would write the male 678 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 4: point of view and go back and forth. So it 679 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 4: was like a really fun, almost like exquisite corpse way 680 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 4: to put a novel together. I'm very, very excited for 681 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 4: this one to be in the in the world. So again, 682 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 4: if like sexy Professor Dark Academia appeals to you at all, 683 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 4: please pre order that one. 684 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 3: I'm already pre ordering it. 685 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: Plus you, how did you come up with your pen name? 686 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 3: It was it different? 687 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 4: Okay, this is so dorky, SD maybe you can figure 688 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 4: that one out. Your initials my initials reversed and then 689 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 4: Coverly is. My favorite play of all time is Arcadia 690 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 4: by Tom Stoppard and the young girl in that play 691 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 4: is named Thomasina Coverly and so I love that play. 692 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 4: I directed it in college. It was like one of 693 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 4: the first things I did, so I just I just 694 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 4: took it from that. 695 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,520 Speaker 3: I love that full. 696 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 4: Do you have like a pen name in mind? If 697 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 4: you ever wrote under a pen name? 698 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 1: I actually tried to come up with a pen name 699 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: because my father's a writer and I thought having two 700 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: of Zaron Burnett's writer would be confusing for the internet. Yeah, 701 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: my father was like, no, I named you Zaren for 702 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: a reason. I was like, okay, So then I shut 703 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,959 Speaker 1: it down and I've never looked back. So what about you, Jason. 704 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 3: No pen names. 705 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 2: Now, my first name is actually John. I'm John Jason English, 706 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 2: but my dad Jason. I'm just finding this out like 707 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,760 Speaker 2: I keep it under wraps. My grandfather was John Jason. 708 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 4: I've known you for more than ten years. 709 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. 710 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 2: I never let it out. The only places at like 711 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 2: doctor's offices or the DMV I have to remember my 712 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 2: name is John. Everywhere else, I've just always been Jason. 713 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,719 Speaker 2: So maybe I could go with Johnny English if I 714 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 2: needed to slip back into something. 715 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 3: That's a great pop star name, Johnny English. 716 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, Johnny English. Well, it's a great British spy name. 717 00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally. This was a fun one for the 718 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 3: fact checker. 719 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 2: In the notes would be like, no, just to be clear, 720 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 2: like this didn't happen, So we can't always just. 721 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,280 Speaker 6: Act like it happened. 722 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,239 Speaker 2: I know, but we're like setting the scene and so 723 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 2: delicate dance. 724 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 4: For a heart attack for a fact checker. 725 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Okay, So for Richard Nixon, obviously this is always difficult. 726 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:20,919 Speaker 1: Who's gonna play Nixon? And then all of a sudden 727 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 1: it came to me Steven van zandt from the Sopranos 728 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: in the East Street Band. Picture Immis Silvio, Now picture Nixon. 729 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: You see it, don't you? 730 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 3: I see it? 731 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 4: I mean mine Nixon will always be Dan Hideya from 732 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 4: De Dore know that movie. 733 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 6: Yes, he's so good. 734 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 4: That's my Nixon forever. 735 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: That's the gold standard. I was like trying to top 736 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 1: that or at least match it. And I was like, okay, yeah, 737 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 1: because like that's like the Mount Rushmore of Nixon's. 738 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:45,439 Speaker 3: It's like so good. 739 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: For Louis Armstrong, I went with Tracy Morgan, which like 740 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: you're at first you're like, wait really, but if you 741 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: think again, picture Tracy Morgan smiling and boom, there you 742 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: go Louis Armstrong. And for Miles Davis, this is unfortunate, 743 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: but I went with Michael K. 744 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 3: Williams. 745 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: Rip Michael kay Williams, but I thought he would be incredible. 746 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: He was slated to play Miles in a biopic. I 747 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: found it and doing some research and I was like, oh, 748 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: somebody else saw it. And then for Roger Stone, this 749 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 1: is a wild like out on a limb. But Peter 750 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: Scolari in a fright wig and a powdered face, could 751 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 1: totally nail Roger Stone. And then for Elvis, I went 752 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: with Quentin Tarantino. Again, a lot of people may not 753 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: know this. Obviously he loves Elvis, but he once played 754 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: Elvis and Elvis impersonator actually on an episode of Golden Girls, 755 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,919 Speaker 1: so he's got the history, so you let him cook. 756 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: And then finally, for my pop zig Burnette, I went 757 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 1: with George Clinton, just without the rainbow dreadlocks. Give him 758 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 1: normal dreadlocks to done deal. 759 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 3: So there you go. 760 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 2: Could we do an episode about Quentin Tarantino playing Elvis 761 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 2: impersonator and the Golden Girls? 762 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 3: Totally? 763 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: There is a hole, actually a bevy of Elvis impersonators 764 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,399 Speaker 1: and he's just the one that stands out. So I've 765 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: seen the episode on YouTube. It's hilarious. 766 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 2: Josh, write that down. We'll tackle that one. Very Special 767 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 2: Episodes is made by some very special people. This show 768 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 2: is hosted by Zaren Burnett, Danish Swartz, and Jason English. 769 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 2: Our senior producer is Josh Fisher. Today's episode was written 770 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 2: by Zaren Burnett, editing and sad designed by Chris Childs, 771 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 2: mixing and mastering by Josh Fisher. Additional editing by Mary Doo, 772 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 2: original music by Elise McCoy, show logo by Lucy Kintonia, 773 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 2: Research in fact checking by Austin Thompson and Zaren Burnett. 774 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 2: Executive producer is Jason English. Thanks to Zaren and producer 775 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 2: Josh for lending their vo talents to this one, and 776 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 2: thanks for Zarin's dad for popping on. 777 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 3: Always good to have. 778 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 2: Him on here. If you'd like to email the show, 779 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 2: you can reach us at very Special Episodes at gmail 780 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,800 Speaker 2: dot com. Very Special Episodes is a production of iHeart Podcasts.