WEBVTT - #534 Ben Bowlin with Robert Johnson 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.680 On the night of April fourteenth, nineteen ninety six, a 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.680 home invasion on Chicago's South Side left twenty four year 0:00:10.680 --> 0:00:15.640 old Eddie J. Binyon fatally shot. The shooter wore a mask, 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.680 but not all of the assailants did. Soon one identification 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.880 led to an interrogation and three more names, one of 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.040 whom was Robert Johnson. But it appears that violence and 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.640 threatening teenagers with eighty years in prison might not lead 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:38.199 to the most reliable information. This is wrongful Conviction. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.919 You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.680 and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.080 and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:58.040 on Apple Podcasts. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.000 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. It's Ben Bollen. I'm back 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.160 to cover a few more cases for Jason. This one 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:14.040 takes us to an unfortunately familiar place, Chicago, Illinois. Joining 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.960 us from the Exoneration Project to help tell this story. 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.119 Lauren Myers Koff Mueller. Welcome back, Lord, thanks for having us, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:26.800 and of course us here includes the man himself, Robert Johnson. Robert, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:28.319 thank you so much for joining us. 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:29.240 My pleasure. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.960 So Robert, let's start with where you grew up. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:38.000 Yeah, Inglewood, Chicago, like south Side on fifty seven and Aperdeen. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:41.360 The neighborhood was a little messed up. I think that's 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.440 when the drug epidemic really hit ard. It was a 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:49.640 bad area, but it was still okay, Like I was 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.760 still able to enjoy myself. Me and my brother, we 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.880 were living with a great aunt and my name was 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.520 Mae Jones. She stood in for my mother and basically 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.880 raised us like we were her own and she took 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.760 care of me from the age two to ten. Then 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.680 she passed away. Then I went to stay with my grandmother. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.919 You know, I remember have very fond memories growing up. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.160 I remember one thing that I used to love, like 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.080 during Christmas time. My grandfather used to take us to 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.440 Ford City. We used to ride past all the houses 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.440 with they decorations and stuff up, like I just remember 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.359 that in my mind. I used to love to do it, 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.000 like every year. I mean, you had people that really 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.560 went forward. It was like they was in competition something, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.120 it was like, but it was real nice. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.840 Well and you haven't been out for Christmas. 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.000 Yet, so I'm not you know, I haven't even thought 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.360 that far, but yeah, that's something I definitely would like 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:50.720 to do. 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.799 Having been released in February of twenty twenty five, at 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:58.040 the time of this recording, Robert is still experiencing a 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.800 lot of first having meant more than twenty eight years 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.320 wrongfully incarcerated at the hands of at least two detectives 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.000 who had previously worked under John Burge, the notorious detective 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.680 commander that ran a torture operation out of Chicago's Area 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.960 two and three. These men were also involved in cases 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.040 that will link in the episode description, like Marcus Wiggins. 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.840 By the time of Robert's case, Marcus's mother had already 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.679 won a civil suit regarding her son's torture that left 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.040 him with a stutter, So the word was certainly getting 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.480 around at this time. But kids in Robert's neighborhood already knew. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.400 I mean, they really thought that they can do anything 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.680 to someone like I remember one time I walked out 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:45.560 my house, I walked three blocks. By the time I 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.600 got to the third block, I had been stopped, paded down, 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.480 and strip searched three times, made to pull my pants 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.440 down so they can see if I had something in 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:01.840 my draws. It's really a blessing that technology has changed 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.760 and people are able to like just record stuff and 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.200 get it on camera, but back then they didn't have it. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.920 And I mean, it was just notorious in the neighborhood 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.120 and they really thought that they was not only the 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.280 law above the law. 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.800 Did you ever hear about police torturing people around this time? 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.839 Yeah, it was a known fact, like already, like if 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.920 the police grabbed you, you getn't beat. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.640 It was known maybe in the neighborhoods. But judges were 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.520 ignoring it and or not believing it, and juries certainly 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.360 were not believing it. Defense counsel it kind of depended, 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.359 but typically they said, we're not bringing that up a 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.800 trial because no what will believe you. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.760 So we need to remember the context of what's occurring here. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.240 This is the late stage of the crack epidemic era. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.280 It's a dire social issue, and it leads to the 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:58.480 election of a ton of so called tough on crime politicians. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.960 These are folks who gave pretty much unlimited leeway to 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.919 law enforcement, but this didn't really lead to safer streets. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.560 The victim in this case was Robert's close friend Eddie J. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.840 Benyon. Yeah, Eddie Benyon Jay, he was my friend. We 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.320 used to hang out. It was even one time that 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.880 I ran away from home and he let me sleep 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.560 in his house. No, I ran away from home because 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.479 you know, I was mischiedious or whatever. You know. My 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.040 grandfather was like, you're gonna come in at this time, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.120 and I was like, I ain't granddad, you want me 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.160 to come in at eight o'clock. Like that's when everything started. 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.920 Like I'm sixteen years old or fifteen years old, like, 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.600 so I last out and ran away, but he let 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.719 me stay at his house a couple of days. And 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.839 I'm sadden. I was sadden when this happened to him. 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:47.920 But I didn't even get a chance to even really 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.760 process the situation because two days later, less than two 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.359 days later, I was arrested or kidnapped rather. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.000 And the night in question was April fourteenth, ninety six. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.080 This is around ten thirty or eleven pm. This was 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.360 after Robert's curfew. Other than a short errand for his grandmother, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.560 He's at home for the night. But Robert knew the 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:15.520 guys who were involved twenty year old Jimmy Slaughter, seventeen 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.240 year old Willy Doherty, fifteen year old Fernando Gilbert, and 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:20.520 a fourth assailant. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.280 I was real tight with Jimmy Slaughter, but we all 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.960 was cool. The only person that I wasn't really cool 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.440 with was Willy Doherty. I had only known him for 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.920 maybe two months at the most. So on the night 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.720 of the crime, my grandmother sent me to Leon's, a 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.080 like food joint, because she was hungry. We both was angry, 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:41.960 and then she sent me to go and get some 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.720 bread and a pop. On my way to this store, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.880 I sink them. They walked past me and they went 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:49.440 their way and I went my way. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.680 So there was this group of guys who had this 0:06:54.839 --> 0:07:00.120 idea to rob j Binyon because he was selling drugs. 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.880 A few of them had guns, a couple of them 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:08.479 wore masks, and the idea was that initially Jimmy Slaughter, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.160 he also knew Jay, so he would go in and 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.960 then he would let the other people in. There were 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.200 a number of other people in the house, including Jay's girlfriend, 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.000 and you know, they're basically all corralled into the back 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.120 of the house while this search was undertaken for the 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.120 drugs and the money. The problem was that there, I 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.520 guess wasn't as much money or drugs as was expected. 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.160 And the fourth assailant, the one who was masked. They 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.680 shot Jay Binyon in the back of the head without 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.800 one a care in the world for this young man's life, 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.400 but two that half of his crew, namely Jimmy Slaughter, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.400 were not wearing masks and were in view of the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.960 people they knew from the neighborhood, like the victim's girlfriend, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:53.200 Shawna Wilkins. 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.840 Right, Shawna knew who he was. They called nine one one, 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.440 and initially Jimmy is treated as put up atually a 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:05.760 witness because they didn't necessarily know that he let these 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.960 guys in on purpose. And during their interrogation of Jimmy, 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:15.040 he has now testified that he was abused, choked, and hit, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.960 and they get names out of him, and then they 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.080 go and pick up these other guys, Willie Doherty and 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.760 Fernando Gilbert, and at that point, you know, they're playing 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.840 people off of each other and saying, well, this is 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.280 what other people are saying. They're already saying it's Robert 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.920 and Willie. He was I think seventeen at the time, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.120 and they also abuse him and threaten him, and so 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.160 he went along with that. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.800 Now it appears that it was some mix of Robert's 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.040 known association with Jimmy Slaughter that brought him to suspicion 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.880 and the other suspects, Gilbert and Doherty both looking to 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.280 save themselves from lengthy prison terms, as well as to 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.880 avoid being labeled snitches for naming that fourth assailant who 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.360 was not named first by the police. And so with 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.280 all this, it appears to have been a convergence of 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.960 various agendas that ultimately led to Robert being pegged as 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:09.960 the mask shooter. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.000 The fifteenth, when I came home from school, my grandma 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.240 told me that the police had called there and wanted 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.120 to talk to me about a conversation that I allegedly heard. 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.480 She was like, you know, call him back, But you know, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.080 I never called him because I'm not calling the police 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.360 based on my experience with him. I want to be 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.120 as farther away from as possible. And then I want 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.880 to say, between two to three o'clock in the morning, 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:41.000 the phone ringed and the doorbell ringed at the same time. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.280 My grandma went to the door, and I heard the 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.040 master or was out there, and she told him, yeah, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.679 you can talk to him, but not right now. I'm 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.160 not going to let y'all talk to him at no. 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:55.600 Three o'clock in the morning. So Detective O'Brien, I know 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.760 his voice because he also testified at my trial and 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.880 he was the one that I had the most inaction with. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.199 I heard him say, if you don't let us in, 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.800 we're gonna kick the door in. And I heard my 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.600 grandma say, well, kick it in, but I ain't letting 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.480 y'all talk to him. I'm not opening this door. And 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.520 then I heard a slam up against the door. I 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.720 guess they were trying to intimidate her or whatever they 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:24.040 was trying to do, and my grandma came back in. 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.800 You know, I doze back off for maybe an hour, 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.000 because they came right back. They rang the bell that time, 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.800 and I haven't did anything, so I was just like, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.080 you know, let him in. So initially they told my 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.360 grandma that we just want to talk to him. We're 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.880 not taking him nowhere. We just want to ask him 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.960 a couple of questions. We're gonna do that here if 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.640 it's okay with you. My grandma said, okay, she let 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.280 him in. They came in. It was about seven or 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.880 eight of them. We sat down in my living room. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.559 My grandmother got up to go to the bathroom, and 0:10:56.440 --> 0:11:00.520 Detective O'Brien said to me, get up right now, let's go. 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:04.800 They didn't even tell me I was under arrest. They 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.679 just was like, let's go now. They didn't tell my 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.960 grandma they was taking me or anything. I said, Grandma, 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.400 I'm gone, and I found out later on she didn't 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.080 even hear me, so. 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.280 She must have come back from the bathroom and then. 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:40.200 And I was gone, just gone. I was gone. People 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:45.760 find it hard to believe or understand why an individual 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.679 will confess to a crime that he wouldn't do. I 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:54.880 personally know why a person would do that, because I 0:11:55.000 --> 0:12:00.200 was so afraid that another ten more hours I might 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.960 have would have said something that I didn't do. Don't 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.720 be so stern. Would you say, well, I know I 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.560 wouldn't confess to a crown that I wouldn't do. No, 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.640 you say that because you have never been inside of 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.640 one of them interrogation rooms. That's the reason why I'm 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.480 not mad at Willie Duwherty Shimmy slaughter Often that no 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:27.880 guilty because it is pressure and it's like, how do 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.960 I help myself? That's the only thing you're thinking about survive? 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.320 How so I mean, I kept on telling them that 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.680 I wasn't involved, and they just wouldn't listen to me. 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.160 They was all in my face, screaming and hollering and 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.520 talking about we know you had something to do with this. 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:52.679 Your co defended is saying it's you that you killed Jay. 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:55.720 You better tell us something or you're going to spend 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.319 the rest of your life in prison. But I just 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.839 kept on telling them, no, I had to do with this. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.840 You know, I never wanted to say anybody's name, because 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.040 you know where I come from, that's frowned upon and 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.880 you can be killed. But as they began to show 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.080 me all types of statements and stuff, it seemed like 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.920 that they are really trying to penness on me. So 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.000 I said what I thought was going to shed some 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:27.200 light on the individual that was involved, Like he was me. 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.679 I seen these individuals together that night. You know, they 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.439 looked at me like what else? 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.520 But he never said anything else, just the names of 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.840 the four guys that he had seen walking together that night, 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.280 three of whom had already given statements and one of 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.160 whom Willie Doherty, had repeated what the police had said 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:51.839 that Robert was the fourth assailant. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.439 At some point I was charged with first degree murder 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.240 on Robert and the only days and like I say, 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.000 another five more hours and no telling what I would 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.240 have see it. My bond was like five hundred thousand 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.840 and something like that, fifty to walk. You know, my 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.280 family not that type of money. So I was in 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.840 custody at the duration of Montreal. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.440 In the meantime, the three other guys are looking for 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:17.720 the best deal, right. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.040 So all of them filed motions to suppress their statements, 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:28.120 alleging different levels of mistreatment or abuse. But the big 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.280 thing that happened was with Willie Doherty, who was seventeen 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.480 years old, terrified had been abused by the police and 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.400 forced to falsely implicate Robert. To begin with, he filed 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.400 his own motion to suppress his statement, which then was 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.080 withdrawn when his lawyer came to him with this offer, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.280 which was fifteen years at fifty percent, so seven and 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.640 a half years for a murder in Chicago if he 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.160 would testify against Robert, and if he didn't do that, 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.320 he was looking at eighty years, which is where Robert 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.760 ended up getting. And so he was told, you know, 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.880 it's either you or him, like he'll take this and 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.960 testify against you and walk free in seven and a 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.880 half years, or that's what you could do. So Willy 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:13.120 thought that it was kind of his only chance at 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.080 a life. So he ends up accepting that. And the 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.440 other guys they did not testify against Robert, but they 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.760 were allowed to make that same deal. You know. They 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.920 were like, well, Robert's going down anyway, let's just save ourselves. 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.800 Robert's trial began a little over a year later, This 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:38.240 is on May thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and as Robert mentioned, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:43.200 Detective O'Brien testified, but the substance of his testimony appeared 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.920 to do little more than a firm in the record 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.200 that he had done everything by the book. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.520 Detective O'Brien say, he came there to arrest me and 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.960 told my grandma that I was under arrest and that 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.520 if she wanted to she can accompany me. Then he 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.120 said that my grandma declined. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.480 And at this point, you were sixteen. 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.760 Sixteen, not any ration, no person, no a grandmother like 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.520 grandmothers don't play about they grand suos in now for real, 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.840 it ain't no way that she would have declined to 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:18.520 come with me. 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.840 And perhaps the subtext there was even this kid's grandmother 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.200 doesn't think he's innocent. However, that is undercut by one 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.680 of the state's only eye witnesses, Shawanna Wilkins, the victim's girlfriend. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.000 We mentioned earlier. She had an obvious interest in getting 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.000 the right person, and she testified to Robert's innocence. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.200 The girlfriend who witnessed everything testified she did not see 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.080 Robert there. She knew Robert because, as Robert said, he 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:48.720 was friends with Jay, and he'd been around, and she 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.920 said the same thing, Knewes's voice, did not recognize his 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:56.680 voice or him as one of the perpetrators. Jay's sister 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.480 also testified that Robert was very close friends with her brother. 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.439 She was only able to testify to us being close 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.679 friends when my attorney tried to ask her, did you 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.000 believe that Robert was involved? I believe she answered the 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:17.560 question no, But I think the judge told the jury 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.000 to disregard it. But the fact that she got up 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.840 there and testified, I think should have helped. But it didn't. 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.200 So it appears that the state star witness, Willie Doherty, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.680 was enough to convince the jury. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.520 That's the only evidence against it, and yet he was 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.239 still convicted. Because back then, in the nineties and it's 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.040 still a lot of the time today, but especially then, 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.320 if someone's sitting in the defendant's chair, the jury assumes 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.959 they did it because to get to that point, the prosecution, 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.480 the police believe you did it, so you must have 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.680 done it, or at least done something. 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.439 But a part of me was like, you mean to 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.640 tell me that one person out of twelve people can't 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.320 say wait a minute, hold on, here is a guy 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.840 that's taking a pleat deal. We know that he was 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.160 involved because he's saying he was involved, and he's being 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:09.760 off of this deal and he's going to walk up 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.119 out of here because we had already been there for 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:13.679 about a year and a half, so he was going 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.200 to go home in less than six years versus him 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.000 getting eighty years, and it's the only thing they got here. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.480 I just would have thought it was somebody that would 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.159 have been like, wait a minute, I don't believe this. 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.440 I'm not convicting this keyd because that's what I was. 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.000 So Robert had the fifty five years on the first 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.320 degree murder and then twenty five years on the arm 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:40.000 robbery and the home invasion. Those two were concurrent, so 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:41.960 it added up to eighty years. 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:47.679 When the guilty verdict came in, I pit my fist 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.320 in my mouth and I just bit down on it 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:57.119 as hard as I could to somewhat compose myself. I 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.679 began crying. I had a public defender. His name was 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:06.120 Bob Gaultra. I remember he put his hand on my shoulder. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:10.480 And while it may have been a simple gesture, in 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:28.600 that moment, I needed that actually was shipped to stay 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:33.760 there a seventeen year. That place is a nightmare, and 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:38.480 it's you know, grown me in here. You immediately know 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.119 that my childhood that's over with. Ain't no more child, 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.680 Ain't no more am a kid. You have to grow 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:53.840 up fast, Ain't no games, ain't no playing. You need 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.480 to learn how to survive quick, what to do, what 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:04.000 not to do? You need to understand all this or 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:11.200 lose your life. My mind couldn't accept the fact that 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:16.080 I was about to spend eighty years of my life 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.320 under these conditions. But I mean, it's hell being there 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.440 for something you did do, But to wake up every 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.120 day knowing that you didn't have nothing to do with this, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.679 that is I don't even I don't even know the 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:34.040 word for that. And I seriously contemplated taking my life, 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:39.199 like I was really close. I remember times, and I 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.960 went through this for a few years, Like I'd hear 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.440 a phone ring and be like, oh, well, maybe that's 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.480 them calling to say, yeah, he ain't had nothing to 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.800 do with that. Y'all got the wrong guy like that. 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:52.840 Let him out. We made a mistake, but you know, 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:57.480 the call that never came. My family was a real 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:04.360 big support system for me, My grandmother, my cousin. At 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.119 the time, I had a brother that was also in 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.080 prison as well. I didn't know that day I had 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.040 a brother that was incocerated. They allowed us to correspond 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.520 with each other, and he sent me different letters and 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.639 was encouraging me. 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.359 Robert's brother encouraged him to learn the law, which was 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.880 even more difficult for him than we usually hear. 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.560 When I first went to prison, I could barely read. 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:30.520 I remember when I first began to read the law. 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.360 It was like it was a whole other language, you know. 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.040 But I had some guys around me that helped me 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.960 instead me in the right direction. Actually it was this 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.840 older individual named James Edwards. He was actually wrongfully convicted 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:49.040 as well. He was later exonerated as well. He helped 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.359 me file my poaching viction. 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:56.199 Thankfully, Robert's co defendants began to come clean, first Jimmy 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.400 Slaughter in two thousand and one, and then Willie Doherty 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:02.520 inand and in three, both of whom stated that Robert 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.080 was in no way involved. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:07.480 So he did a pro say filing in two thousand 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:11.920 and nine, which is basically the same pleading that eventually 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.600 got him released in twenty twenty five. So the way 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.560 that it works in Illinois is you don't have a 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.560 right to counsel for post conviction. In Illinois, there's a 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.840 statutory right to counsel if your post conviction gets past 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.800 the first stage, but you have to raise enough evidence 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.760 to get there without a lawyer. So it's this bar 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.800 already that people have. But Robert's case did get to 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.119 the second stage, and so then he had a lawyer 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.000 who filed an amended petition raising the same claims that 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.400 was in twenty fourteen, and this lawyer had an updated 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.960 affidavit from Jimmy Slaughter, but the judge dismissed the petition 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:53.760 at the second stage. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.280 Which is pretty wild considering that the only witness who 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:01.360 said he was the shooter Willie Doherty was now literally 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.359 saying that Robert was not involved at all, which was 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.040 then corroborated by Jimmy Slaughter as well. And if you're 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.240 going to say that now he's not credible, then when 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:15.639 was he ever credible? Yet still, this judge ruled in 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:19.639 twenty seventeen that the evidence of actual innocence, which was 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:26.000 the recantation of the state's sole inculpatory witness, was somehow insufficient, which. 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:26.720 What more do you want? 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:27.000 Right? 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:31.520 It's not every case, especially now, has DNA or something 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.720 that is a smoking gun. Most cases have eyewitness misidentification, 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.480 which they didn't even have that here because the eyewitness 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.840 that it wasn't Robert that was appealed. So I think 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:45.679 it was in twenty eighteen that Alison Flowers, an investigative 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.600 journalist she had been looking into Robert's case, had written 0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:53.080 an article. It was The Invisible Institute. It was published 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:57.800 in the Daily Beast, just doing fantastic work covering different witnesses, 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:02.080 talking to different people, covering some of the misconduct and 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:06.160 the case. And so she came to me and I 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:09.040 took a look, and we waited for that decision, and 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:13.440