Speaker 1: On the night of April fourteenth, nineteen ninety six, a
Speaker 1: home invasion on Chicago's South Side left twenty four year
Speaker 1: old Eddie J. Binyon fatally shot. The shooter wore a mask,
Speaker 1: but not all of the assailants did. Soon one identification
Speaker 1: led to an interrogation and three more names, one of
Speaker 1: whom was Robert Johnson. But it appears that violence and
Speaker 1: threatening teenagers with eighty years in prison might not lead
Speaker 1: to the most reliable information. This is wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this
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Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. It's Ben Bollen. I'm back
Speaker 1: to cover a few more cases for Jason. This one
Speaker 1: takes us to an unfortunately familiar place, Chicago, Illinois. Joining
Speaker 1: us from the Exoneration Project to help tell this story.
Speaker 1: Lauren Myers Koff Mueller. Welcome back, Lord, thanks for having us,
Speaker 1: and of course us here includes the man himself, Robert Johnson. Robert,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: My pleasure.
Speaker 1: So Robert, let's start with where you grew up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Inglewood, Chicago, like south Side on fifty seven and Aperdeen.
Speaker 3: The neighborhood was a little messed up. I think that's
Speaker 3: when the drug epidemic really hit ard. It was a
Speaker 3: bad area, but it was still okay, Like I was
Speaker 3: still able to enjoy myself. Me and my brother, we
Speaker 3: were living with a great aunt and my name was
Speaker 3: Mae Jones. She stood in for my mother and basically
Speaker 3: raised us like we were her own and she took
Speaker 3: care of me from the age two to ten. Then
Speaker 3: she passed away. Then I went to stay with my grandmother.
Speaker 3: You know, I remember have very fond memories growing up.
Speaker 3: I remember one thing that I used to love, like
Speaker 3: during Christmas time. My grandfather used to take us to
Speaker 3: Ford City. We used to ride past all the houses
Speaker 3: with they decorations and stuff up, like I just remember
Speaker 3: that in my mind. I used to love to do it,
Speaker 3: like every year. I mean, you had people that really
Speaker 3: went forward. It was like they was in competition something,
Speaker 3: it was like, but it was real nice.
Speaker 4: Well and you haven't been out for Christmas.
Speaker 3: Yet, so I'm not you know, I haven't even thought
Speaker 3: that far, but yeah, that's something I definitely would like
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: Having been released in February of twenty twenty five, at
Speaker 1: the time of this recording, Robert is still experiencing a
Speaker 1: lot of first having meant more than twenty eight years
Speaker 1: wrongfully incarcerated at the hands of at least two detectives
Speaker 1: who had previously worked under John Burge, the notorious detective
Speaker 1: commander that ran a torture operation out of Chicago's Area
Speaker 1: two and three. These men were also involved in cases
Speaker 1: that will link in the episode description, like Marcus Wiggins.
Speaker 1: By the time of Robert's case, Marcus's mother had already
Speaker 1: won a civil suit regarding her son's torture that left
Speaker 1: him with a stutter, So the word was certainly getting
Speaker 1: around at this time. But kids in Robert's neighborhood already knew.
Speaker 3: I mean, they really thought that they can do anything
Speaker 3: to someone like I remember one time I walked out
Speaker 3: my house, I walked three blocks. By the time I
Speaker 3: got to the third block, I had been stopped, paded down,
Speaker 3: and strip searched three times, made to pull my pants
Speaker 3: down so they can see if I had something in
Speaker 3: my draws. It's really a blessing that technology has changed
Speaker 3: and people are able to like just record stuff and
Speaker 3: get it on camera, but back then they didn't have it.
Speaker 3: And I mean, it was just notorious in the neighborhood
Speaker 3: and they really thought that they was not only the
Speaker 3: law above the law.
Speaker 1: Did you ever hear about police torturing people around this time?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a known fact, like already, like if
Speaker 3: the police grabbed you, you getn't beat.
Speaker 4: It was known maybe in the neighborhoods. But judges were
Speaker 4: ignoring it and or not believing it, and juries certainly
Speaker 4: were not believing it. Defense counsel it kind of depended,
Speaker 4: but typically they said, we're not bringing that up a
Speaker 4: trial because no what will believe you.
Speaker 1: So we need to remember the context of what's occurring here.
Speaker 1: This is the late stage of the crack epidemic era.
Speaker 1: It's a dire social issue, and it leads to the
Speaker 1: election of a ton of so called tough on crime politicians.
Speaker 1: These are folks who gave pretty much unlimited leeway to
Speaker 1: law enforcement, but this didn't really lead to safer streets.
Speaker 1: The victim in this case was Robert's close friend Eddie J.
Speaker 3: Benyon. Yeah, Eddie Benyon Jay, he was my friend. We
Speaker 3: used to hang out. It was even one time that
Speaker 3: I ran away from home and he let me sleep
Speaker 3: in his house. No, I ran away from home because
Speaker 3: you know, I was mischiedious or whatever. You know. My
Speaker 3: grandfather was like, you're gonna come in at this time,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I ain't granddad, you want me
Speaker 3: to come in at eight o'clock. Like that's when everything started.
Speaker 3: Like I'm sixteen years old or fifteen years old, like,
Speaker 3: so I last out and ran away, but he let
Speaker 3: me stay at his house a couple of days. And
Speaker 3: I'm sadden. I was sadden when this happened to him.
Speaker 3: But I didn't even get a chance to even really
Speaker 3: process the situation because two days later, less than two
Speaker 3: days later, I was arrested or kidnapped rather.
Speaker 1: And the night in question was April fourteenth, ninety six.
Speaker 1: This is around ten thirty or eleven pm. This was
Speaker 1: after Robert's curfew. Other than a short errand for his grandmother,
Speaker 1: He's at home for the night. But Robert knew the
Speaker 1: guys who were involved twenty year old Jimmy Slaughter, seventeen
Speaker 1: year old Willy Doherty, fifteen year old Fernando Gilbert, and
Speaker 1: a fourth assailant.
Speaker 3: I was real tight with Jimmy Slaughter, but we all
Speaker 3: was cool. The only person that I wasn't really cool
Speaker 3: with was Willy Doherty. I had only known him for
Speaker 3: maybe two months at the most. So on the night
Speaker 3: of the crime, my grandmother sent me to Leon's, a
Speaker 3: like food joint, because she was hungry. We both was angry,
Speaker 3: and then she sent me to go and get some
Speaker 3: bread and a pop. On my way to this store,
Speaker 3: I sink them. They walked past me and they went
Speaker 3: their way and I went my way.
Speaker 4: So there was this group of guys who had this
Speaker 4: idea to rob j Binyon because he was selling drugs.
Speaker 4: A few of them had guns, a couple of them
Speaker 4: wore masks, and the idea was that initially Jimmy Slaughter,
Speaker 4: he also knew Jay, so he would go in and
Speaker 4: then he would let the other people in. There were
Speaker 4: a number of other people in the house, including Jay's girlfriend,
Speaker 4: and you know, they're basically all corralled into the back
Speaker 4: of the house while this search was undertaken for the
Speaker 4: drugs and the money. The problem was that there, I
Speaker 4: guess wasn't as much money or drugs as was expected.
Speaker 1: And the fourth assailant, the one who was masked. They
Speaker 1: shot Jay Binyon in the back of the head without
Speaker 1: one a care in the world for this young man's life,
Speaker 1: but two that half of his crew, namely Jimmy Slaughter,
Speaker 1: were not wearing masks and were in view of the
Speaker 1: people they knew from the neighborhood, like the victim's girlfriend,
Speaker 1: Shawna Wilkins.
Speaker 4: Right, Shawna knew who he was. They called nine one one,
Speaker 4: and initially Jimmy is treated as put up atually a
Speaker 4: witness because they didn't necessarily know that he let these
Speaker 4: guys in on purpose. And during their interrogation of Jimmy,
Speaker 4: he has now testified that he was abused, choked, and hit,
Speaker 4: and they get names out of him, and then they
Speaker 4: go and pick up these other guys, Willie Doherty and
Speaker 4: Fernando Gilbert, and at that point, you know, they're playing
Speaker 4: people off of each other and saying, well, this is
Speaker 4: what other people are saying. They're already saying it's Robert
Speaker 4: and Willie. He was I think seventeen at the time,
Speaker 4: and they also abuse him and threaten him, and so
Speaker 4: he went along with that.
Speaker 1: Now it appears that it was some mix of Robert's
Speaker 1: known association with Jimmy Slaughter that brought him to suspicion
Speaker 1: and the other suspects, Gilbert and Doherty both looking to
Speaker 1: save themselves from lengthy prison terms, as well as to
Speaker 1: avoid being labeled snitches for naming that fourth assailant who
Speaker 1: was not named first by the police. And so with
Speaker 1: all this, it appears to have been a convergence of
Speaker 1: various agendas that ultimately led to Robert being pegged as
Speaker 1: the mask shooter.
Speaker 3: The fifteenth, when I came home from school, my grandma
Speaker 3: told me that the police had called there and wanted
Speaker 3: to talk to me about a conversation that I allegedly heard.
Speaker 3: She was like, you know, call him back, But you know,
Speaker 3: I never called him because I'm not calling the police
Speaker 3: based on my experience with him. I want to be
Speaker 3: as farther away from as possible. And then I want
Speaker 3: to say, between two to three o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 3: the phone ringed and the doorbell ringed at the same time.
Speaker 3: My grandma went to the door, and I heard the
Speaker 3: master or was out there, and she told him, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can talk to him, but not right now. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to let y'all talk to him at no.
Speaker 3: Three o'clock in the morning. So Detective O'Brien, I know
Speaker 3: his voice because he also testified at my trial and
Speaker 3: he was the one that I had the most inaction with.
Speaker 3: I heard him say, if you don't let us in,
Speaker 3: we're gonna kick the door in. And I heard my
Speaker 3: grandma say, well, kick it in, but I ain't letting
Speaker 3: y'all talk to him. I'm not opening this door. And
Speaker 3: then I heard a slam up against the door. I
Speaker 3: guess they were trying to intimidate her or whatever they
Speaker 3: was trying to do, and my grandma came back in.
Speaker 3: You know, I doze back off for maybe an hour,
Speaker 3: because they came right back. They rang the bell that time,
Speaker 3: and I haven't did anything, so I was just like,
Speaker 3: you know, let him in. So initially they told my
Speaker 3: grandma that we just want to talk to him. We're
Speaker 3: not taking him nowhere. We just want to ask him
Speaker 3: a couple of questions. We're gonna do that here if
Speaker 3: it's okay with you. My grandma said, okay, she let
Speaker 3: him in. They came in. It was about seven or
Speaker 3: eight of them. We sat down in my living room.
Speaker 3: My grandmother got up to go to the bathroom, and
Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien said to me, get up right now, let's go.
Speaker 3: They didn't even tell me I was under arrest. They
Speaker 3: just was like, let's go now. They didn't tell my
Speaker 3: grandma they was taking me or anything. I said, Grandma,
Speaker 3: I'm gone, and I found out later on she didn't
Speaker 3: even hear me, so.
Speaker 1: She must have come back from the bathroom and then.
Speaker 3: And I was gone, just gone. I was gone. People
Speaker 3: find it hard to believe or understand why an individual
Speaker 3: will confess to a crime that he wouldn't do. I
Speaker 3: personally know why a person would do that, because I
Speaker 3: was so afraid that another ten more hours I might
Speaker 3: have would have said something that I didn't do. Don't
Speaker 3: be so stern. Would you say, well, I know I
Speaker 3: wouldn't confess to a crown that I wouldn't do. No,
Speaker 3: you say that because you have never been inside of
Speaker 3: one of them interrogation rooms. That's the reason why I'm
Speaker 3: not mad at Willie Duwherty Shimmy slaughter Often that no
Speaker 3: guilty because it is pressure and it's like, how do
Speaker 3: I help myself? That's the only thing you're thinking about survive?
Speaker 3: How so I mean, I kept on telling them that
Speaker 3: I wasn't involved, and they just wouldn't listen to me.
Speaker 3: They was all in my face, screaming and hollering and
Speaker 3: talking about we know you had something to do with this.
Speaker 3: Your co defended is saying it's you that you killed Jay.
Speaker 3: You better tell us something or you're going to spend
Speaker 3: the rest of your life in prison. But I just
Speaker 3: kept on telling them, no, I had to do with this.
Speaker 3: You know, I never wanted to say anybody's name, because
Speaker 3: you know where I come from, that's frowned upon and
Speaker 3: you can be killed. But as they began to show
Speaker 3: me all types of statements and stuff, it seemed like
Speaker 3: that they are really trying to penness on me. So
Speaker 3: I said what I thought was going to shed some
Speaker 3: light on the individual that was involved, Like he was me.
Speaker 3: I seen these individuals together that night. You know, they
Speaker 3: looked at me like what else?
Speaker 1: But he never said anything else, just the names of
Speaker 1: the four guys that he had seen walking together that night,
Speaker 1: three of whom had already given statements and one of
Speaker 1: whom Willie Doherty, had repeated what the police had said
Speaker 1: that Robert was the fourth assailant.
Speaker 3: At some point I was charged with first degree murder
Speaker 3: on Robert and the only days and like I say,
Speaker 3: another five more hours and no telling what I would
Speaker 3: have see it. My bond was like five hundred thousand
Speaker 3: and something like that, fifty to walk. You know, my
Speaker 3: family not that type of money. So I was in
Speaker 3: custody at the duration of Montreal.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, the three other guys are looking for
Speaker 1: the best deal, right.
Speaker 4: So all of them filed motions to suppress their statements,
Speaker 4: alleging different levels of mistreatment or abuse. But the big
Speaker 4: thing that happened was with Willie Doherty, who was seventeen
Speaker 4: years old, terrified had been abused by the police and
Speaker 4: forced to falsely implicate Robert. To begin with, he filed
Speaker 4: his own motion to suppress his statement, which then was
Speaker 4: withdrawn when his lawyer came to him with this offer,
Speaker 4: which was fifteen years at fifty percent, so seven and
Speaker 4: a half years for a murder in Chicago if he
Speaker 4: would testify against Robert, and if he didn't do that,
Speaker 4: he was looking at eighty years, which is where Robert
Speaker 4: ended up getting. And so he was told, you know,
Speaker 4: it's either you or him, like he'll take this and
Speaker 4: testify against you and walk free in seven and a
Speaker 4: half years, or that's what you could do. So Willy
Speaker 4: thought that it was kind of his only chance at
Speaker 4: a life. So he ends up accepting that. And the
Speaker 4: other guys they did not testify against Robert, but they
Speaker 4: were allowed to make that same deal. You know. They
Speaker 4: were like, well, Robert's going down anyway, let's just save ourselves.
Speaker 1: Robert's trial began a little over a year later, This
Speaker 1: is on May thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and as Robert mentioned,
Speaker 1: Detective O'Brien testified, but the substance of his testimony appeared
Speaker 1: to do little more than a firm in the record
Speaker 1: that he had done everything by the book.
Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien say, he came there to arrest me and
Speaker 3: told my grandma that I was under arrest and that
Speaker 3: if she wanted to she can accompany me. Then he
Speaker 3: said that my grandma declined.
Speaker 1: And at this point, you were sixteen.
Speaker 3: Sixteen, not any ration, no person, no a grandmother like
Speaker 3: grandmothers don't play about they grand suos in now for real,
Speaker 3: it ain't no way that she would have declined to
Speaker 3: come with me.
Speaker 1: And perhaps the subtext there was even this kid's grandmother
Speaker 1: doesn't think he's innocent. However, that is undercut by one
Speaker 1: of the state's only eye witnesses, Shawanna Wilkins, the victim's girlfriend.
Speaker 1: We mentioned earlier. She had an obvious interest in getting
Speaker 1: the right person, and she testified to Robert's innocence.
Speaker 4: The girlfriend who witnessed everything testified she did not see
Speaker 4: Robert there. She knew Robert because, as Robert said, he
Speaker 4: was friends with Jay, and he'd been around, and she
Speaker 4: said the same thing, Knewes's voice, did not recognize his
Speaker 4: voice or him as one of the perpetrators. Jay's sister
Speaker 4: also testified that Robert was very close friends with her brother.
Speaker 3: She was only able to testify to us being close
Speaker 3: friends when my attorney tried to ask her, did you
Speaker 3: believe that Robert was involved? I believe she answered the
Speaker 3: question no, But I think the judge told the jury
Speaker 3: to disregard it. But the fact that she got up
Speaker 3: there and testified, I think should have helped. But it didn't.
Speaker 1: So it appears that the state star witness, Willie Doherty,
Speaker 1: was enough to convince the jury.
Speaker 4: That's the only evidence against it, and yet he was
Speaker 4: still convicted. Because back then, in the nineties and it's
Speaker 4: still a lot of the time today, but especially then,
Speaker 4: if someone's sitting in the defendant's chair, the jury assumes
Speaker 4: they did it because to get to that point, the prosecution,
Speaker 4: the police believe you did it, so you must have
Speaker 4: done it, or at least done something.
Speaker 3: But a part of me was like, you mean to
Speaker 3: tell me that one person out of twelve people can't
Speaker 3: say wait a minute, hold on, here is a guy
Speaker 3: that's taking a pleat deal. We know that he was
Speaker 3: involved because he's saying he was involved, and he's being
Speaker 3: off of this deal and he's going to walk up
Speaker 3: out of here because we had already been there for
Speaker 3: about a year and a half, so he was going
Speaker 3: to go home in less than six years versus him
Speaker 3: getting eighty years, and it's the only thing they got here.
Speaker 3: I just would have thought it was somebody that would
Speaker 3: have been like, wait a minute, I don't believe this.
Speaker 3: I'm not convicting this keyd because that's what I was.
Speaker 4: So Robert had the fifty five years on the first
Speaker 4: degree murder and then twenty five years on the arm
Speaker 4: robbery and the home invasion. Those two were concurrent, so
Speaker 4: it added up to eighty years.
Speaker 3: When the guilty verdict came in, I pit my fist
Speaker 3: in my mouth and I just bit down on it
Speaker 3: as hard as I could to somewhat compose myself. I
Speaker 3: began crying. I had a public defender. His name was
Speaker 3: Bob Gaultra. I remember he put his hand on my shoulder.
Speaker 3: And while it may have been a simple gesture, in
Speaker 3: that moment, I needed that actually was shipped to stay
Speaker 3: there a seventeen year. That place is a nightmare, and
Speaker 3: it's you know, grown me in here. You immediately know
Speaker 3: that my childhood that's over with. Ain't no more child,
Speaker 3: Ain't no more am a kid. You have to grow
Speaker 3: up fast, Ain't no games, ain't no playing. You need
Speaker 3: to learn how to survive quick, what to do, what
Speaker 3: not to do? You need to understand all this or
Speaker 3: lose your life. My mind couldn't accept the fact that
Speaker 3: I was about to spend eighty years of my life
Speaker 3: under these conditions. But I mean, it's hell being there
Speaker 3: for something you did do, But to wake up every
Speaker 3: day knowing that you didn't have nothing to do with this,
Speaker 3: that is I don't even I don't even know the
Speaker 3: word for that. And I seriously contemplated taking my life,
Speaker 3: like I was really close. I remember times, and I
Speaker 3: went through this for a few years, Like I'd hear
Speaker 3: a phone ring and be like, oh, well, maybe that's
Speaker 3: them calling to say, yeah, he ain't had nothing to
Speaker 3: do with that. Y'all got the wrong guy like that.
Speaker 3: Let him out. We made a mistake, but you know,
Speaker 3: the call that never came. My family was a real
Speaker 3: big support system for me, My grandmother, my cousin. At
Speaker 3: the time, I had a brother that was also in
Speaker 3: prison as well. I didn't know that day I had
Speaker 3: a brother that was incocerated. They allowed us to correspond
Speaker 3: with each other, and he sent me different letters and
Speaker 3: was encouraging me.
Speaker 1: Robert's brother encouraged him to learn the law, which was
Speaker 1: even more difficult for him than we usually hear.
Speaker 3: When I first went to prison, I could barely read.
Speaker 3: I remember when I first began to read the law.
Speaker 3: It was like it was a whole other language, you know.
Speaker 3: But I had some guys around me that helped me
Speaker 3: instead me in the right direction. Actually it was this
Speaker 3: older individual named James Edwards. He was actually wrongfully convicted
Speaker 3: as well. He was later exonerated as well. He helped
Speaker 3: me file my poaching viction.
Speaker 1: Thankfully, Robert's co defendants began to come clean, first Jimmy
Speaker 1: Slaughter in two thousand and one, and then Willie Doherty
Speaker 1: inand and in three, both of whom stated that Robert
Speaker 1: was in no way involved.
Speaker 4: So he did a pro say filing in two thousand
Speaker 4: and nine, which is basically the same pleading that eventually
Speaker 4: got him released in twenty twenty five. So the way
Speaker 4: that it works in Illinois is you don't have a
Speaker 4: right to counsel for post conviction. In Illinois, there's a
Speaker 4: statutory right to counsel if your post conviction gets past
Speaker 4: the first stage, but you have to raise enough evidence
Speaker 4: to get there without a lawyer. So it's this bar
Speaker 4: already that people have. But Robert's case did get to
Speaker 4: the second stage, and so then he had a lawyer
Speaker 4: who filed an amended petition raising the same claims that
Speaker 4: was in twenty fourteen, and this lawyer had an updated
Speaker 4: affidavit from Jimmy Slaughter, but the judge dismissed the petition
Speaker 4: at the second stage.
Speaker 1: Which is pretty wild considering that the only witness who
Speaker 1: said he was the shooter Willie Doherty was now literally
Speaker 1: saying that Robert was not involved at all, which was
Speaker 1: then corroborated by Jimmy Slaughter as well. And if you're
Speaker 1: going to say that now he's not credible, then when
Speaker 1: was he ever credible? Yet still, this judge ruled in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen that the evidence of actual innocence, which was
Speaker 1: the recantation of the state's sole inculpatory witness, was somehow insufficient, which.
Speaker 4: What more do you want?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: It's not every case, especially now, has DNA or something
Speaker 4: that is a smoking gun. Most cases have eyewitness misidentification,
Speaker 4: which they didn't even have that here because the eyewitness
Speaker 4: that it wasn't Robert that was appealed. So I think
Speaker 4: it was in twenty eighteen that Alison Flowers, an investigative
Speaker 4: journalist she had been looking into Robert's case, had written
Speaker 4: an article. It was The Invisible Institute. It was published
Speaker 4: in the Daily Beast, just doing fantastic work covering different witnesses,
Speaker 4: talking to different people, covering some of the misconduct and
Speaker 4: the case. And so she came to me and I
Speaker 4: took a look, and we waited for that decision, and
Speaker 4: the appellate court remanded for the evident Jerry Hearing saying
Speaker 4: basically that there was so little evidence against Robert to
Speaker 4: begin with, that these witnesses would make a difference. You know,
Speaker 4: if they're credible, you need to at least listen to
Speaker 4: these people and see what they have to say.
Speaker 1: That was all in twenty twenty, and Lauren and the
Speaker 1: Exoneration Project began their reinvestigation to develop more evidence.
Speaker 4: It was difficult to investigate and interview people in heavy
Speaker 4: COVID times, but eventually we were able to talk to
Speaker 4: a bunch of different people. Willy Doherty was the hardest
Speaker 4: one to get in touch with. We eventually did. I
Speaker 4: mean understandably. Jimmy Slaughter also felt very bad about what
Speaker 4: had happened, but Willy was really devastated by having testified
Speaker 4: falsely against Robert. And Robert has already said that he
Speaker 4: doesn't blame them because he was in the same situation.
Speaker 4: He understands better than anyone else why Willy took that
Speaker 4: deal and why he did what he did.
Speaker 1: In addition, Lauren and another attorney with the Exoneration Project
Speaker 1: began Richardson developed pattern and practice evidence, much of which
Speaker 1: had become available from other cases in which detectives O'Brien
Speaker 1: and Moser had been exposed for the same kind of misconduct,
Speaker 1: and they were finally ready to supplement the petition in
Speaker 1: late twenty twenty three. They had the hearing in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four, by which time Jimmy Slaughter and Willie Doherty
Speaker 1: had come clean with the fourth assailant, the same guy
Speaker 1: who Robert had said he'd seen walking with the group
Speaker 1: that night, Tremaine Taylor.
Speaker 4: So Tremaine is deceased now he was killed in I
Speaker 4: think it was twenty eighteen. We're not able to talk
Speaker 4: to him. But Willie Doherty to fight at our hearing,
Speaker 4: admitted his own involvement and identified the other participants as Slaughter, Gilbert,
Speaker 4: and Taylor. He said that Tremaine had the gun, Robert
Speaker 4: wasn't there, wasn't involved at all, and that he basically
Speaker 4: fled as soon as it started to get questionable. That
Speaker 4: you know, he didn't think anyone was going to get hurt,
Speaker 4: is what he had said. And Jimmy Slaughter also admitted
Speaker 4: his own involvement and identified the other perpetrators as Doherty, Gilbert,
Speaker 4: and Taylor. Also said Tremaine had the gun and that
Speaker 4: Robert wasn't involved at all, wasn't even there. And then
Speaker 4: there were a number of people who came forward to
Speaker 4: say that Tremaine confessed to them at different points, so
Speaker 4: either right after it happened or a few years down
Speaker 4: the line, including his best friend, his own brothers. You know,
Speaker 4: his mom has spoken to different people, including journalists, and
Speaker 4: her belief and understanding is that her son did it.
Speaker 4: So we had the hearing in the fall, and the
Speaker 4: judge took it under advisement basically and was reviewing everything
Speaker 4: and was going to come back with her ruling in February,
Speaker 4: which was vacating Robert's conviction.
Speaker 3: And I was just like, man, I heard my family
Speaker 3: back there hollering, which they're not supposed to do. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the George immediately got on them like, hey, don't do
Speaker 3: that anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, if there is ever a time to yell
Speaker 1: or whistle or whatever, this has gotta be one of
Speaker 1: those times. This is February nineteen, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a memory that I relive over and
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 3: I just act really can't even describe it. It was
Speaker 3: like a dream, like it was something that I waited
Speaker 3: for so long that I prayed for. That I fought
Speaker 3: for something that I thought wasn't even to happen at
Speaker 3: some point, you know.
Speaker 4: So the judge granted him bond and he then walked out.
Speaker 3: That next day, first I had went back to my
Speaker 3: grandmother's house. My grandma said, I want you to walk
Speaker 3: through the door, because she kept on saying every time
Speaker 3: that I talked to her in prison, I just want
Speaker 3: to see you walk through that door.
Speaker 4: And she lived at the same house right she did.
Speaker 3: That was another surreal moment walking back into that house
Speaker 3: after twenty eight years and ten months. They didn't even
Speaker 3: look the same, but it was on. So I ended
Speaker 3: up walking through the door and she was like, everybody,
Speaker 3: get it pitched while you walking into the door. So
Speaker 3: I ended up walking in the door before somebody was
Speaker 3: able to take fits it. So she told me, no,
Speaker 3: you go back out, walk back out. I had to
Speaker 3: walk back out and walk back in, and everybody took
Speaker 3: pictures of me and walking in, and we talked for
Speaker 3: a brief moment and I say, well, look, Grandma, the
Speaker 3: first thing I need to do is I need to
Speaker 3: jump in the tub. That's the first thing I want
Speaker 3: to do in the bathtub.
Speaker 4: And then soon thereafter you got to be there for
Speaker 4: her ninety third birthday.
Speaker 3: You know, I love telling this one particular story about
Speaker 3: her ninety third birthday. So every year my grandma while
Speaker 3: I was in prison, they asked her what is your wish?
Speaker 3: And every year it has been to see my grandson
Speaker 3: come home. And they asked her again and she said,
Speaker 3: I ain't got no wish. This year, my wish is
Speaker 3: standing next to me. I got what I wished for.
Speaker 3: That's what we both both wish for.
Speaker 4: You know, I love it. Yeah, it makes me cry.
Speaker 4: Then it was I think it's like a month later
Speaker 4: that we had the date for the state to decide
Speaker 4: are we appealing, are we moving forward with the trial,
Speaker 4: et cetera. And they came in and they dropped all
Speaker 4: the charges.
Speaker 1: It's not like they had any evidence to present, and
Speaker 1: so it was.
Speaker 4: Like the day after that, I think, right that you
Speaker 4: got to leave for the Innocent Network conference in Seattle.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I probably had the best time of my life there.
Speaker 3: It was so much love and support in Karateie, just
Speaker 3: a lot of people that was understood my feelings and
Speaker 3: my thoughts, and a lot of compassionate people as well.
Speaker 3: That didn't go through what we went through, but they
Speaker 3: was outraged by people being wrongfully convicted and spending twenty
Speaker 3: and thirty years of their life in prison.
Speaker 1: And our crew here at wrongful conviction. We never miss it.
Speaker 1: In fact, next year it'll be in Chicago and we're
Speaker 1: all looking forward to it. And if anybody listening wants
Speaker 1: to help Robert get back on his feet, his GoFundMe
Speaker 1: is linked here in the episode description, so please give
Speaker 1: if you can. And with that we go to our clothes.
Speaker 1: We want to give the last word to Lauren and
Speaker 1: Robert Souren. How about we start with you. What do
Speaker 1: we want people to take away from this story?
Speaker 4: Particular, people who I've met who have gone through this
Speaker 4: and people who have been wrongly convicted are some of
Speaker 4: just the most amazing people that you could ever meet,
Speaker 4: Just the strongest, kindest, most grateful people. And Robert even
Speaker 4: tops all of that. I mean, he's just always been
Speaker 4: such a sweet person, so thoughtful, always asking after my
Speaker 4: kids and my family and concerned about how I'm doing
Speaker 4: when he's going through the worst possible thing anyone can
Speaker 4: go through. And I'm just so like I said, lucky
Speaker 4: to know Robert lucky that I got to work on
Speaker 4: his case, that I got to be one of the
Speaker 4: ones to bring the truth to light. And I'm grateful
Speaker 4: that I get to watch everything that he's going to do.
Speaker 4: He already has a job that he's really enjoying, and
Speaker 4: he's spreading the word about wrongful convictions, and I just
Speaker 4: feel so blessed to be even a small part of
Speaker 4: the story. Worry that is Robert Johnson.
Speaker 3: Just a few people that I would like to just
Speaker 3: wholeheartedly thank them, because without them, I wouldn't be sitting
Speaker 3: right here. James Edwards, they helped me file my post
Speaker 3: in fiction, adolphful Davis, who introduced me to a journalist.
Speaker 3: Her name is Elise. She talked to Alison Flowers, I
Speaker 3: want to think at least and Alison Flowers as well,
Speaker 3: who brought my case to Lauren and Meghan. There is
Speaker 3: no words that I can express how thankful I am,
Speaker 3: how much I appreciate y'all. And I want to thank
Speaker 3: Natasha Tyler because she fought hard for me, but I'll
Speaker 3: never forget that ever, and last but not least, my
Speaker 3: family as well. What I would want people to take
Speaker 3: from this is that if you're on one of them. Jurors.
Speaker 3: Don't just assume that a person that's sitting at that.
Speaker 5: Table is guilty because the police said he did it,
Speaker 5: or the prosecutor says he did it, but he listen
Speaker 5: to the evidence. Because there are people in prison for
Speaker 5: crime that they did not commit. It is my understanding
Speaker 5: that Chicago is leading the nation and Wrong for Convictions
Speaker 5: right now. I just want people to bear in mind
Speaker 5: that these things happen a lot, and we need to
Speaker 5: do something to stop if I'm happening, And I do
Speaker 5: have one thing I would like to say for the
Speaker 5: man of the woman that's now in prison for a crime.
Speaker 3: That they didn't commit. Keep your hope. Don't let them
Speaker 3: take that from you. Keep on fighting. It took me
Speaker 3: twenty eight years and ten months. Don't never give up.
Speaker 3: I can almost bet you something will happen.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can
Speaker 2: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts
Speaker 2: one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava
Speaker 2: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Thank our production team,
Speaker 2: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow
Speaker 2: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiber. The
Speaker 2: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
Speaker 2: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across
Speaker 2: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at
Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at
Speaker 2: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava
Speaker 2: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One.
Speaker 2: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported
Speaker 2: in this show are accurate.
Speaker 5: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in
Speaker 5: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect
Speaker 5: those of Lava for Good.