1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: On the night of April fourteenth, nineteen ninety six, a 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: home invasion on Chicago's South Side left twenty four year 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: old Eddie J. Binyon fatally shot. The shooter wore a mask, 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: but not all of the assailants did. Soon one identification 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: led to an interrogation and three more names, one of 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: whom was Robert Johnson. But it appears that violence and 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: threatening teenagers with eighty years in prison might not lead 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: to the most reliable information. This is wrongful Conviction. 9 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 2: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early 11 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus 12 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts. 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. It's Ben Bollen. I'm back 14 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: to cover a few more cases for Jason. This one 15 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: takes us to an unfortunately familiar place, Chicago, Illinois. Joining 16 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: us from the Exoneration Project to help tell this story. 17 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: Lauren Myers Koff Mueller. Welcome back, Lord, thanks for having us, 18 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: and of course us here includes the man himself, Robert Johnson. Robert, 19 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. 20 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 3: My pleasure. 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: So Robert, let's start with where you grew up. 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, Inglewood, Chicago, like south Side on fifty seven and Aperdeen. 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: The neighborhood was a little messed up. I think that's 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 3: when the drug epidemic really hit ard. It was a 25 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 3: bad area, but it was still okay, Like I was 26 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 3: still able to enjoy myself. Me and my brother, we 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: were living with a great aunt and my name was 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 3: Mae Jones. She stood in for my mother and basically 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 3: raised us like we were her own and she took 30 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 3: care of me from the age two to ten. Then 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 3: she passed away. Then I went to stay with my grandmother. 32 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 3: You know, I remember have very fond memories growing up. 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: I remember one thing that I used to love, like 34 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 3: during Christmas time. My grandfather used to take us to 35 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: Ford City. We used to ride past all the houses 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: with they decorations and stuff up, like I just remember 37 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 3: that in my mind. I used to love to do it, 38 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: like every year. I mean, you had people that really 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 3: went forward. It was like they was in competition something, 40 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 3: it was like, but it was real nice. 41 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 4: Well and you haven't been out for Christmas. 42 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: Yet, so I'm not you know, I haven't even thought 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 3: that far, but yeah, that's something I definitely would like 44 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 3: to do. 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: Having been released in February of twenty twenty five, at 46 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: the time of this recording, Robert is still experiencing a 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: lot of first having meant more than twenty eight years 48 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: wrongfully incarcerated at the hands of at least two detectives 49 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: who had previously worked under John Burge, the notorious detective 50 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: commander that ran a torture operation out of Chicago's Area 51 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: two and three. These men were also involved in cases 52 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: that will link in the episode description, like Marcus Wiggins. 53 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: By the time of Robert's case, Marcus's mother had already 54 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: won a civil suit regarding her son's torture that left 55 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: him with a stutter, So the word was certainly getting 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: around at this time. But kids in Robert's neighborhood already knew. 57 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: I mean, they really thought that they can do anything 58 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: to someone like I remember one time I walked out 59 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: my house, I walked three blocks. By the time I 60 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 3: got to the third block, I had been stopped, paded down, 61 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: and strip searched three times, made to pull my pants 62 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: down so they can see if I had something in 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: my draws. It's really a blessing that technology has changed 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 3: and people are able to like just record stuff and 65 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: get it on camera, but back then they didn't have it. 66 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: And I mean, it was just notorious in the neighborhood 67 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: and they really thought that they was not only the 68 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: law above the law. 69 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: Did you ever hear about police torturing people around this time? 70 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a known fact, like already, like if 71 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: the police grabbed you, you getn't beat. 72 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 4: It was known maybe in the neighborhoods. But judges were 73 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 4: ignoring it and or not believing it, and juries certainly 74 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 4: were not believing it. Defense counsel it kind of depended, 75 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 4: but typically they said, we're not bringing that up a 76 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 4: trial because no what will believe you. 77 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: So we need to remember the context of what's occurring here. 78 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: This is the late stage of the crack epidemic era. 79 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: It's a dire social issue, and it leads to the 80 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: election of a ton of so called tough on crime politicians. 81 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: These are folks who gave pretty much unlimited leeway to 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: law enforcement, but this didn't really lead to safer streets. 83 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: The victim in this case was Robert's close friend Eddie J. 84 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 3: Benyon. Yeah, Eddie Benyon Jay, he was my friend. We 85 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: used to hang out. It was even one time that 86 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: I ran away from home and he let me sleep 87 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 3: in his house. No, I ran away from home because 88 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 3: you know, I was mischiedious or whatever. You know. My 89 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 3: grandfather was like, you're gonna come in at this time, 90 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 3: and I was like, I ain't granddad, you want me 91 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: to come in at eight o'clock. Like that's when everything started. 92 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 3: Like I'm sixteen years old or fifteen years old, like, 93 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 3: so I last out and ran away, but he let 94 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 3: me stay at his house a couple of days. And 95 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 3: I'm sadden. I was sadden when this happened to him. 96 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: But I didn't even get a chance to even really 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: process the situation because two days later, less than two 98 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 3: days later, I was arrested or kidnapped rather. 99 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: And the night in question was April fourteenth, ninety six. 100 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: This is around ten thirty or eleven pm. This was 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: after Robert's curfew. Other than a short errand for his grandmother, 102 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: He's at home for the night. But Robert knew the 103 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: guys who were involved twenty year old Jimmy Slaughter, seventeen 104 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: year old Willy Doherty, fifteen year old Fernando Gilbert, and 105 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: a fourth assailant. 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 3: I was real tight with Jimmy Slaughter, but we all 107 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 3: was cool. The only person that I wasn't really cool 108 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 3: with was Willy Doherty. I had only known him for 109 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: maybe two months at the most. So on the night 110 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 3: of the crime, my grandmother sent me to Leon's, a 111 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 3: like food joint, because she was hungry. We both was angry, 112 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 3: and then she sent me to go and get some 113 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 3: bread and a pop. On my way to this store, 114 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: I sink them. They walked past me and they went 115 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: their way and I went my way. 116 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 4: So there was this group of guys who had this 117 00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 4: idea to rob j Binyon because he was selling drugs. 118 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 4: A few of them had guns, a couple of them 119 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 4: wore masks, and the idea was that initially Jimmy Slaughter, 120 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 4: he also knew Jay, so he would go in and 121 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 4: then he would let the other people in. There were 122 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 4: a number of other people in the house, including Jay's girlfriend, 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: and you know, they're basically all corralled into the back 124 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 4: of the house while this search was undertaken for the 125 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: drugs and the money. The problem was that there, I 126 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: guess wasn't as much money or drugs as was expected. 127 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: And the fourth assailant, the one who was masked. They 128 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: shot Jay Binyon in the back of the head without 129 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: one a care in the world for this young man's life, 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: but two that half of his crew, namely Jimmy Slaughter, 131 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: were not wearing masks and were in view of the 132 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: people they knew from the neighborhood, like the victim's girlfriend, 133 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: Shawna Wilkins. 134 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 4: Right, Shawna knew who he was. They called nine one one, 135 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 4: and initially Jimmy is treated as put up atually a 136 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 4: witness because they didn't necessarily know that he let these 137 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: guys in on purpose. And during their interrogation of Jimmy, 138 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 4: he has now testified that he was abused, choked, and hit, 139 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 4: and they get names out of him, and then they 140 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: go and pick up these other guys, Willie Doherty and 141 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 4: Fernando Gilbert, and at that point, you know, they're playing 142 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: people off of each other and saying, well, this is 143 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: what other people are saying. They're already saying it's Robert 144 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 4: and Willie. He was I think seventeen at the time, 145 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: and they also abuse him and threaten him, and so 146 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: he went along with that. 147 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: Now it appears that it was some mix of Robert's 148 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: known association with Jimmy Slaughter that brought him to suspicion 149 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: and the other suspects, Gilbert and Doherty both looking to 150 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: save themselves from lengthy prison terms, as well as to 151 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: avoid being labeled snitches for naming that fourth assailant who 152 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: was not named first by the police. And so with 153 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: all this, it appears to have been a convergence of 154 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: various agendas that ultimately led to Robert being pegged as 155 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 1: the mask shooter. 156 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 3: The fifteenth, when I came home from school, my grandma 157 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: told me that the police had called there and wanted 158 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: to talk to me about a conversation that I allegedly heard. 159 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: She was like, you know, call him back, But you know, 160 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 3: I never called him because I'm not calling the police 161 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: based on my experience with him. I want to be 162 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: as farther away from as possible. And then I want 163 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 3: to say, between two to three o'clock in the morning, 164 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: the phone ringed and the doorbell ringed at the same time. 165 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: My grandma went to the door, and I heard the 166 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: master or was out there, and she told him, yeah, 167 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 3: you can talk to him, but not right now. I'm 168 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: not going to let y'all talk to him at no. 169 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: Three o'clock in the morning. So Detective O'Brien, I know 170 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: his voice because he also testified at my trial and 171 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 3: he was the one that I had the most inaction with. 172 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 3: I heard him say, if you don't let us in, 173 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: we're gonna kick the door in. And I heard my 174 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: grandma say, well, kick it in, but I ain't letting 175 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: y'all talk to him. I'm not opening this door. And 176 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: then I heard a slam up against the door. I 177 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: guess they were trying to intimidate her or whatever they 178 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: was trying to do, and my grandma came back in. 179 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: You know, I doze back off for maybe an hour, 180 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 3: because they came right back. They rang the bell that time, 181 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 3: and I haven't did anything, so I was just like, 182 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 3: you know, let him in. So initially they told my 183 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: grandma that we just want to talk to him. We're 184 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: not taking him nowhere. We just want to ask him 185 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 3: a couple of questions. We're gonna do that here if 186 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: it's okay with you. My grandma said, okay, she let 187 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 3: him in. They came in. It was about seven or 188 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: eight of them. We sat down in my living room. 189 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: My grandmother got up to go to the bathroom, and 190 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien said to me, get up right now, let's go. 191 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 3: They didn't even tell me I was under arrest. They 192 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 3: just was like, let's go now. They didn't tell my 193 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: grandma they was taking me or anything. I said, Grandma, 194 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: I'm gone, and I found out later on she didn't 195 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 3: even hear me, so. 196 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: She must have come back from the bathroom and then. 197 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: And I was gone, just gone. I was gone. People 198 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: find it hard to believe or understand why an individual 199 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 3: will confess to a crime that he wouldn't do. I 200 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: personally know why a person would do that, because I 201 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: was so afraid that another ten more hours I might 202 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 3: have would have said something that I didn't do. Don't 203 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: be so stern. Would you say, well, I know I 204 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: wouldn't confess to a crown that I wouldn't do. No, 205 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 3: you say that because you have never been inside of 206 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: one of them interrogation rooms. That's the reason why I'm 207 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: not mad at Willie Duwherty Shimmy slaughter Often that no 208 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 3: guilty because it is pressure and it's like, how do 209 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: I help myself? That's the only thing you're thinking about survive? 210 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 3: How so I mean, I kept on telling them that 211 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 3: I wasn't involved, and they just wouldn't listen to me. 212 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 3: They was all in my face, screaming and hollering and 213 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 3: talking about we know you had something to do with this. 214 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: Your co defended is saying it's you that you killed Jay. 215 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: You better tell us something or you're going to spend 216 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 3: the rest of your life in prison. But I just 217 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 3: kept on telling them, no, I had to do with this. 218 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 3: You know, I never wanted to say anybody's name, because 219 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: you know where I come from, that's frowned upon and 220 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: you can be killed. But as they began to show 221 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 3: me all types of statements and stuff, it seemed like 222 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: that they are really trying to penness on me. So 223 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: I said what I thought was going to shed some 224 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 3: light on the individual that was involved, Like he was me. 225 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 3: I seen these individuals together that night. You know, they 226 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 3: looked at me like what else? 227 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: But he never said anything else, just the names of 228 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: the four guys that he had seen walking together that night, 229 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: three of whom had already given statements and one of 230 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: whom Willie Doherty, had repeated what the police had said 231 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 1: that Robert was the fourth assailant. 232 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 3: At some point I was charged with first degree murder 233 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: on Robert and the only days and like I say, 234 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 3: another five more hours and no telling what I would 235 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: have see it. My bond was like five hundred thousand 236 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 3: and something like that, fifty to walk. You know, my 237 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: family not that type of money. So I was in 238 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 3: custody at the duration of Montreal. 239 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: In the meantime, the three other guys are looking for 240 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: the best deal, right. 241 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 4: So all of them filed motions to suppress their statements, 242 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: alleging different levels of mistreatment or abuse. But the big 243 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 4: thing that happened was with Willie Doherty, who was seventeen 244 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 4: years old, terrified had been abused by the police and 245 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 4: forced to falsely implicate Robert. To begin with, he filed 246 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 4: his own motion to suppress his statement, which then was 247 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 4: withdrawn when his lawyer came to him with this offer, 248 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 4: which was fifteen years at fifty percent, so seven and 249 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 4: a half years for a murder in Chicago if he 250 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 4: would testify against Robert, and if he didn't do that, 251 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 4: he was looking at eighty years, which is where Robert 252 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: ended up getting. And so he was told, you know, 253 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 4: it's either you or him, like he'll take this and 254 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 4: testify against you and walk free in seven and a 255 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 4: half years, or that's what you could do. So Willy 256 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 4: thought that it was kind of his only chance at 257 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 4: a life. So he ends up accepting that. And the 258 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 4: other guys they did not testify against Robert, but they 259 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 4: were allowed to make that same deal. You know. They 260 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 4: were like, well, Robert's going down anyway, let's just save ourselves. 261 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: Robert's trial began a little over a year later, This 262 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: is on May thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, and as Robert mentioned, 263 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: Detective O'Brien testified, but the substance of his testimony appeared 264 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: to do little more than a firm in the record 265 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: that he had done everything by the book. 266 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 3: Detective O'Brien say, he came there to arrest me and 267 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 3: told my grandma that I was under arrest and that 268 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 3: if she wanted to she can accompany me. Then he 269 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: said that my grandma declined. 270 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: And at this point, you were sixteen. 271 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 3: Sixteen, not any ration, no person, no a grandmother like 272 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: grandmothers don't play about they grand suos in now for real, 273 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 3: it ain't no way that she would have declined to 274 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: come with me. 275 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: And perhaps the subtext there was even this kid's grandmother 276 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: doesn't think he's innocent. However, that is undercut by one 277 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: of the state's only eye witnesses, Shawanna Wilkins, the victim's girlfriend. 278 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: We mentioned earlier. She had an obvious interest in getting 279 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: the right person, and she testified to Robert's innocence. 280 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: The girlfriend who witnessed everything testified she did not see 281 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 4: Robert there. She knew Robert because, as Robert said, he 282 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 4: was friends with Jay, and he'd been around, and she 283 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 4: said the same thing, Knewes's voice, did not recognize his 284 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 4: voice or him as one of the perpetrators. Jay's sister 285 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 4: also testified that Robert was very close friends with her brother. 286 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 3: She was only able to testify to us being close 287 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 3: friends when my attorney tried to ask her, did you 288 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 3: believe that Robert was involved? I believe she answered the 289 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: question no, But I think the judge told the jury 290 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: to disregard it. But the fact that she got up 291 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 3: there and testified, I think should have helped. But it didn't. 292 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: So it appears that the state star witness, Willie Doherty, 293 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: was enough to convince the jury. 294 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 4: That's the only evidence against it, and yet he was 295 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 4: still convicted. Because back then, in the nineties and it's 296 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 4: still a lot of the time today, but especially then, 297 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 4: if someone's sitting in the defendant's chair, the jury assumes 298 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,959 Speaker 4: they did it because to get to that point, the prosecution, 299 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 4: the police believe you did it, so you must have 300 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 4: done it, or at least done something. 301 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 3: But a part of me was like, you mean to 302 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 3: tell me that one person out of twelve people can't 303 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: say wait a minute, hold on, here is a guy 304 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 3: that's taking a pleat deal. We know that he was 305 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 3: involved because he's saying he was involved, and he's being 306 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 3: off of this deal and he's going to walk up 307 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 3: out of here because we had already been there for 308 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 3: about a year and a half, so he was going 309 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 3: to go home in less than six years versus him 310 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: getting eighty years, and it's the only thing they got here. 311 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 3: I just would have thought it was somebody that would 312 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: have been like, wait a minute, I don't believe this. 313 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 3: I'm not convicting this keyd because that's what I was. 314 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 4: So Robert had the fifty five years on the first 315 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 4: degree murder and then twenty five years on the arm 316 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 4: robbery and the home invasion. Those two were concurrent, so 317 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 4: it added up to eighty years. 318 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 3: When the guilty verdict came in, I pit my fist 319 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: in my mouth and I just bit down on it 320 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 3: as hard as I could to somewhat compose myself. I 321 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 3: began crying. I had a public defender. His name was 322 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 3: Bob Gaultra. I remember he put his hand on my shoulder. 323 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 3: And while it may have been a simple gesture, in 324 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 3: that moment, I needed that actually was shipped to stay 325 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 3: there a seventeen year. That place is a nightmare, and 326 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 3: it's you know, grown me in here. You immediately know 327 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 3: that my childhood that's over with. Ain't no more child, 328 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 3: Ain't no more am a kid. You have to grow 329 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 3: up fast, Ain't no games, ain't no playing. You need 330 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: to learn how to survive quick, what to do, what 331 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 3: not to do? You need to understand all this or 332 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: lose your life. My mind couldn't accept the fact that 333 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 3: I was about to spend eighty years of my life 334 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: under these conditions. But I mean, it's hell being there 335 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 3: for something you did do, But to wake up every 336 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 3: day knowing that you didn't have nothing to do with this, 337 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 3: that is I don't even I don't even know the 338 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 3: word for that. And I seriously contemplated taking my life, 339 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 3: like I was really close. I remember times, and I 340 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 3: went through this for a few years, Like I'd hear 341 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 3: a phone ring and be like, oh, well, maybe that's 342 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: them calling to say, yeah, he ain't had nothing to 343 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 3: do with that. Y'all got the wrong guy like that. 344 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: Let him out. We made a mistake, but you know, 345 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 3: the call that never came. My family was a real 346 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 3: big support system for me, My grandmother, my cousin. At 347 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 3: the time, I had a brother that was also in 348 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 3: prison as well. I didn't know that day I had 349 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: a brother that was incocerated. They allowed us to correspond 350 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 3: with each other, and he sent me different letters and 351 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 3: was encouraging me. 352 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: Robert's brother encouraged him to learn the law, which was 353 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: even more difficult for him than we usually hear. 354 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 3: When I first went to prison, I could barely read. 355 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: I remember when I first began to read the law. 356 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 3: It was like it was a whole other language, you know. 357 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 3: But I had some guys around me that helped me 358 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: instead me in the right direction. Actually it was this 359 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: older individual named James Edwards. He was actually wrongfully convicted 360 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: as well. He was later exonerated as well. He helped 361 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 3: me file my poaching viction. 362 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: Thankfully, Robert's co defendants began to come clean, first Jimmy 363 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: Slaughter in two thousand and one, and then Willie Doherty 364 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: inand and in three, both of whom stated that Robert 365 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: was in no way involved. 366 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 4: So he did a pro say filing in two thousand 367 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 4: and nine, which is basically the same pleading that eventually 368 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 4: got him released in twenty twenty five. So the way 369 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 4: that it works in Illinois is you don't have a 370 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 4: right to counsel for post conviction. In Illinois, there's a 371 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 4: statutory right to counsel if your post conviction gets past 372 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: the first stage, but you have to raise enough evidence 373 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 4: to get there without a lawyer. So it's this bar 374 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 4: already that people have. But Robert's case did get to 375 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 4: the second stage, and so then he had a lawyer 376 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 4: who filed an amended petition raising the same claims that 377 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 4: was in twenty fourteen, and this lawyer had an updated 378 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 4: affidavit from Jimmy Slaughter, but the judge dismissed the petition 379 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 4: at the second stage. 380 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: Which is pretty wild considering that the only witness who 381 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 1: said he was the shooter Willie Doherty was now literally 382 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: saying that Robert was not involved at all, which was 383 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: then corroborated by Jimmy Slaughter as well. And if you're 384 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: going to say that now he's not credible, then when 385 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: was he ever credible? Yet still, this judge ruled in 386 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen that the evidence of actual innocence, which was 387 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: the recantation of the state's sole inculpatory witness, was somehow insufficient, which. 388 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 4: What more do you want? 389 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 3: Right? 390 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 4: It's not every case, especially now, has DNA or something 391 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 4: that is a smoking gun. Most cases have eyewitness misidentification, 392 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 4: which they didn't even have that here because the eyewitness 393 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 4: that it wasn't Robert that was appealed. So I think 394 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 4: it was in twenty eighteen that Alison Flowers, an investigative 395 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 4: journalist she had been looking into Robert's case, had written 396 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 4: an article. It was The Invisible Institute. It was published 397 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 4: in the Daily Beast, just doing fantastic work covering different witnesses, 398 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 4: talking to different people, covering some of the misconduct and 399 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 4: the case. And so she came to me and I 400 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 4: took a look, and we waited for that decision, and 401 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 4: the appellate court remanded for the evident Jerry Hearing saying 402 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 4: basically that there was so little evidence against Robert to 403 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 4: begin with, that these witnesses would make a difference. You know, 404 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 4: if they're credible, you need to at least listen to 405 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 4: these people and see what they have to say. 406 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: That was all in twenty twenty, and Lauren and the 407 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: Exoneration Project began their reinvestigation to develop more evidence. 408 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 4: It was difficult to investigate and interview people in heavy 409 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 4: COVID times, but eventually we were able to talk to 410 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 4: a bunch of different people. Willy Doherty was the hardest 411 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 4: one to get in touch with. We eventually did. I 412 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 4: mean understandably. Jimmy Slaughter also felt very bad about what 413 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 4: had happened, but Willy was really devastated by having testified 414 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 4: falsely against Robert. And Robert has already said that he 415 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 4: doesn't blame them because he was in the same situation. 416 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 4: He understands better than anyone else why Willy took that 417 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 4: deal and why he did what he did. 418 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: In addition, Lauren and another attorney with the Exoneration Project 419 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: began Richardson developed pattern and practice evidence, much of which 420 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: had become available from other cases in which detectives O'Brien 421 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: and Moser had been exposed for the same kind of misconduct, 422 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: and they were finally ready to supplement the petition in 423 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: late twenty twenty three. They had the hearing in twenty 424 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: twenty four, by which time Jimmy Slaughter and Willie Doherty 425 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: had come clean with the fourth assailant, the same guy 426 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: who Robert had said he'd seen walking with the group 427 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: that night, Tremaine Taylor. 428 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 4: So Tremaine is deceased now he was killed in I 429 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 4: think it was twenty eighteen. We're not able to talk 430 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 4: to him. But Willie Doherty to fight at our hearing, 431 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 4: admitted his own involvement and identified the other participants as Slaughter, Gilbert, 432 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 4: and Taylor. He said that Tremaine had the gun, Robert 433 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 4: wasn't there, wasn't involved at all, and that he basically 434 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 4: fled as soon as it started to get questionable. That 435 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 4: you know, he didn't think anyone was going to get hurt, 436 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 4: is what he had said. And Jimmy Slaughter also admitted 437 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 4: his own involvement and identified the other perpetrators as Doherty, Gilbert, 438 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 4: and Taylor. Also said Tremaine had the gun and that 439 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 4: Robert wasn't involved at all, wasn't even there. And then 440 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 4: there were a number of people who came forward to 441 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 4: say that Tremaine confessed to them at different points, so 442 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 4: either right after it happened or a few years down 443 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 4: the line, including his best friend, his own brothers. You know, 444 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: his mom has spoken to different people, including journalists, and 445 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 4: her belief and understanding is that her son did it. 446 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 4: So we had the hearing in the fall, and the 447 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 4: judge took it under advisement basically and was reviewing everything 448 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 4: and was going to come back with her ruling in February, 449 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: which was vacating Robert's conviction. 450 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 3: And I was just like, man, I heard my family 451 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: back there hollering, which they're not supposed to do. Yeah, 452 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 3: the George immediately got on them like, hey, don't do 453 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 3: that anything. 454 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if there is ever a time to yell 455 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: or whistle or whatever, this has gotta be one of 456 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: those times. This is February nineteen, twenty twenty five. 457 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a memory that I relive over and 458 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 3: over again. 459 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: Like. 460 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: I just act really can't even describe it. It was 461 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 3: like a dream, like it was something that I waited 462 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: for so long that I prayed for. That I fought 463 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 3: for something that I thought wasn't even to happen at 464 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 3: some point, you know. 465 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 4: So the judge granted him bond and he then walked out. 466 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 3: That next day, first I had went back to my 467 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 3: grandmother's house. My grandma said, I want you to walk 468 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 3: through the door, because she kept on saying every time 469 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 3: that I talked to her in prison, I just want 470 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 3: to see you walk through that door. 471 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 4: And she lived at the same house right she did. 472 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 3: That was another surreal moment walking back into that house 473 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 3: after twenty eight years and ten months. They didn't even 474 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 3: look the same, but it was on. So I ended 475 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: up walking through the door and she was like, everybody, 476 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: get it pitched while you walking into the door. So 477 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: I ended up walking in the door before somebody was 478 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: able to take fits it. So she told me, no, 479 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: you go back out, walk back out. I had to 480 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 3: walk back out and walk back in, and everybody took 481 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 3: pictures of me and walking in, and we talked for 482 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: a brief moment and I say, well, look, Grandma, the 483 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: first thing I need to do is I need to 484 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 3: jump in the tub. That's the first thing I want 485 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 3: to do in the bathtub. 486 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 4: And then soon thereafter you got to be there for 487 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 4: her ninety third birthday. 488 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 3: You know, I love telling this one particular story about 489 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 3: her ninety third birthday. So every year my grandma while 490 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 3: I was in prison, they asked her what is your wish? 491 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 3: And every year it has been to see my grandson 492 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 3: come home. And they asked her again and she said, 493 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 3: I ain't got no wish. This year, my wish is 494 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 3: standing next to me. I got what I wished for. 495 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 3: That's what we both both wish for. 496 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 4: You know, I love it. Yeah, it makes me cry. 497 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 4: Then it was I think it's like a month later 498 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 4: that we had the date for the state to decide 499 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 4: are we appealing, are we moving forward with the trial, 500 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 4: et cetera. And they came in and they dropped all 501 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 4: the charges. 502 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: It's not like they had any evidence to present, and 503 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: so it was. 504 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 4: Like the day after that, I think, right that you 505 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 4: got to leave for the Innocent Network conference in Seattle. 506 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. I probably had the best time of my life there. 507 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 3: It was so much love and support in Karateie, just 508 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: a lot of people that was understood my feelings and 509 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 3: my thoughts, and a lot of compassionate people as well. 510 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: That didn't go through what we went through, but they 511 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: was outraged by people being wrongfully convicted and spending twenty 512 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 3: and thirty years of their life in prison. 513 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 1: And our crew here at wrongful conviction. We never miss it. 514 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: In fact, next year it'll be in Chicago and we're 515 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: all looking forward to it. And if anybody listening wants 516 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: to help Robert get back on his feet, his GoFundMe 517 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: is linked here in the episode description, so please give 518 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: if you can. And with that we go to our clothes. 519 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: We want to give the last word to Lauren and 520 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: Robert Souren. How about we start with you. What do 521 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: we want people to take away from this story? 522 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 4: Particular, people who I've met who have gone through this 523 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 4: and people who have been wrongly convicted are some of 524 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 4: just the most amazing people that you could ever meet, 525 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 4: Just the strongest, kindest, most grateful people. And Robert even 526 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: tops all of that. I mean, he's just always been 527 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 4: such a sweet person, so thoughtful, always asking after my 528 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 4: kids and my family and concerned about how I'm doing 529 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 4: when he's going through the worst possible thing anyone can 530 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 4: go through. And I'm just so like I said, lucky 531 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 4: to know Robert lucky that I got to work on 532 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 4: his case, that I got to be one of the 533 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 4: ones to bring the truth to light. And I'm grateful 534 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 4: that I get to watch everything that he's going to do. 535 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 4: He already has a job that he's really enjoying, and 536 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 4: he's spreading the word about wrongful convictions, and I just 537 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: feel so blessed to be even a small part of 538 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 4: the story. Worry that is Robert Johnson. 539 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: Just a few people that I would like to just 540 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: wholeheartedly thank them, because without them, I wouldn't be sitting 541 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 3: right here. James Edwards, they helped me file my post 542 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 3: in fiction, adolphful Davis, who introduced me to a journalist. 543 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 3: Her name is Elise. She talked to Alison Flowers, I 544 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,719 Speaker 3: want to think at least and Alison Flowers as well, 545 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: who brought my case to Lauren and Meghan. There is 546 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 3: no words that I can express how thankful I am, 547 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 3: how much I appreciate y'all. And I want to thank 548 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 3: Natasha Tyler because she fought hard for me, but I'll 549 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 3: never forget that ever, and last but not least, my 550 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 3: family as well. What I would want people to take 551 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 3: from this is that if you're on one of them. Jurors. 552 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: Don't just assume that a person that's sitting at that. 553 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 5: Table is guilty because the police said he did it, 554 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 5: or the prosecutor says he did it, but he listen 555 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 5: to the evidence. Because there are people in prison for 556 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 5: crime that they did not commit. It is my understanding 557 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 5: that Chicago is leading the nation and Wrong for Convictions 558 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 5: right now. I just want people to bear in mind 559 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 5: that these things happen a lot, and we need to 560 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 5: do something to stop if I'm happening, And I do 561 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 5: have one thing I would like to say for the 562 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 5: man of the woman that's now in prison for a crime. 563 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 3: That they didn't commit. Keep your hope. Don't let them 564 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 3: take that from you. Keep on fighting. It took me 565 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 3: twenty eight years and ten months. Don't never give up. 566 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 3: I can almost bet you something will happen. 567 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can 568 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 569 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava 570 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Thank our production team, 571 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 2: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow 572 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 2: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiber. The 573 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 2: music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR 574 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 575 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 576 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 577 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 578 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 2: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. 579 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 2: We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 580 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 2: in this show are accurate. 581 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 5: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in 582 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 5: this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect 583 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 5: those of Lava for Good.