1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio, Gui Stop Stop, Don't Know Wanna 3 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Want Bad Joy Up by Canza. That is, of course, 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: the sex Pistols with Anarchy in the UK off their 5 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven album never Mind the Bollocks. Here's the 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: sex Pistols. The song and the album feature My Guest 7 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: Today guitarist and musician Steve Jones. While many have laid 8 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: claim to inventing punk rock, Jones and the band are 9 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: the actual creators of the genre, although the name was 10 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: given to them by their friend designer Vivian Westwood. Jones 11 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: is nothing if not surprising. He overcame a challenging lower 12 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: class upbringing in Britain to become a founding member of 13 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: one of the most influential bands in music. Although The 14 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Sex Pistol's nineteen seventy seven debut would be their only release, 15 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: the band left an indelible mark on music and culture. 16 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: After The Pistol's breakup, Jones went on to perform in 17 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: the bands The Professionals and Neurotic Outsiders. He also released 18 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: his own solo work and Steve Jones' career continued to evolve. 19 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: He hosted a daily radio show, Jonesy's Jukebox for almost 20 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: two decades, and his memoir Lonely Boy was developed into 21 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: the popular FX series Pistol, directed by filmmaker Danny Boyle 22 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: and the most surprising part. Jones is also one of 23 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: my favorite performers on social media. He's known for playing 24 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: heartfelt and beautiful songs in his shower showcasing the softer 25 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: side of the legendary punk rock star. I wanted to 26 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: get his take on building a musical genre and what 27 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: was really behind the punk rock movement. 28 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: Well, we didn't form a band and say let's be 29 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: punk rock. It was a word that came after us forming. Actually, 30 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: it was a word that this American lady who lived 31 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: in London called Caroline Coon. I think she was the 32 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: first one to write it in the Melody Maker punk rock. 33 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 2: It just was a word that came up. But as 34 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: far as what does it mean, I mean, it's the 35 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: same thing as or Richard or Jerry Lee Lewis. You know, 36 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: to me, it's just rock and roll. There was a 37 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: lot of fashion slung in there with Vivian Westward and 38 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: Malcolm McLaren and it was the right time, and we 39 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: were just the next generation of young people who didn't 40 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: like old people. You know, he just wanted something different. 41 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: That's what. It's what, that's what happens. It's like every 42 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: generation should be doing that, you know. 43 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: It's their own means of expressing how much they hate 44 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: their parents. 45 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that and everything else, even if it's just nonsense, 46 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: you know, rebelling what's the famous line in the movie, 47 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: and what you're rebelling against? What you're going you got 48 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: you know, it's the same. It's the same stuff. Nothing's new. 49 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: There's a documentary. I watched Sex Pistols documentary, Filth and 50 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: the Fury. Yes, the Filth and the Fury. There you 51 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: go things the Filth and the Fury comes and I 52 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: love that film. I loved it because they really take 53 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: their time and lay the context in there of how 54 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: horrible it was in England and in London at that time. 55 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,119 Speaker 1: The poverty and the job was this, and the inflation 56 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: and everything was that a part of it too? Was 57 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: it just you? 58 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: You? 59 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: You did? You hate it there and just dream of 60 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: getting the hell out of there. 61 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't really pay attention to what was 62 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: going on. Around me. To be honest with you, I 63 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: just it was just growing up. I didn't feel like 64 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 2: I was poor. I had a crappy upbringing by my stepfather. 65 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: It was abusive. My mother wasn't really looking back there. 66 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: I think she was a little bit crazy, like really crazy, 67 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: and we were dirt poor, you know. But all I 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: wanted to do when I was like really young, like 69 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: ten to eleven, was just to go up the West 70 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: End and around Piccadilly and just walk around looking for excitement. 71 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: That was it. I didn't. I mean I did notice 72 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: some trash bags here and there, but I really didn't 73 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: care about any any of that stuff. You know, John 74 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: like he was a lot sharper, you know what I mean. 75 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: I was pretty simple. I just wanted to do most 76 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: teenagers want to do is get laid, have a laugh, 77 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: and get drunk. Yeah, that was pretty much. Yet I'm 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 2: not one of them. The clash was more political than 79 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: the sex pistols. I think I think we didn't take 80 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: ourselves serious. Like the clash the class seemed very serious. 81 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: But I'm not taking away what we concocted, which was 82 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: just the fluke. You know, It's four guys you just 83 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: got together it just happened to be that the four guys. 84 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: This was before Sid when we had Glenn Matlock as 85 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: the bass player, and it was just magic for two 86 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: years and then it kind of started fizzling away. 87 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: So home was tough. Your stepfather was abusive. You write 88 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: all of this in your book Lonely Boy. Your dad disappeared. 89 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: You'll reconnected with your real dad when you were fifty correct. 90 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 2: Oh, I never knew, but my friend kind of pushed 91 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 2: me to look him up and I did. And so 92 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: it was in two thousand and eight and we were 93 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: touring sex pistols. We did like thirty shows, did a 94 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: bunch of festivals in Europe, and I'd spoken to him 95 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 2: one time. He kind of put two and two together 96 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 2: what was happening, and he agreed to meet me, and 97 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: I went up to Nottingham. He lived in Nottingham. He 98 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: got married after he left my mum. He has three 99 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: kids my age and I met him and that was bizarre. 100 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 2: How so well, his voice is exactly the same, and 101 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 2: he really does look like me. And he was a 102 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: truck driver most of his life and he was an 103 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: amateur boxer. And I met him and we went in 104 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: this caf around a corner from the station in Nottingham, 105 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 2: and he was just he wouldn't shut up. He was 106 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 2: so guilt ridden, he just wouldn't be quiet. I'm like, 107 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: I don't care, shut up. I just want to see 108 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 2: if you had hair or not. You know, I liked him, 109 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: actually liked him. They were young when they had me, 110 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 2: you know. 111 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, you think would you be capable of doing the 112 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: same thing, you. 113 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: Know, easy? Yeah, so I've got no qualms with him. 114 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: He's dead now. My mom died around they were like 115 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: eighty two. They both kind of died the same time. 116 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: Even though they never spoke or anything since he left, 117 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: really they never communicated. 118 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: When you saw him, did you either forgive him or 119 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: have the impulse to forgive him? 120 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? I made it clear I didn't like a form more. 121 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: You know, I just said, look, it's all good, you know, 122 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: you don't have to keep going on about this, that 123 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: and the other. I really wanted to see you, and 124 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: I'm glad it turned out the way it did. My 125 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: biggest fear was when I called him and he was 126 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: going to say, I don't want nothing to do with you, right, 127 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: And that was it. So I think it turned out 128 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: pretty good a couple of times after that, and he 129 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: sent me a let and then that was it. It 130 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: just fizzled out. I had no desire to want to, 131 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: you know, hang out with him and all that was 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: that was long gone. 133 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: Now when you I mean, we're going to meander here. 134 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: But when you after your heyday with the band and 135 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: that white hot period, had you visited Los Angeles? So 136 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: when did you first go to Los Angeles? And are 137 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: you like a lot of Brits I know where they 138 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: walk out there and they're like, this is it, man, 139 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: I'm moving here the sunshine and blah blah. 140 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: Blah pretty much. I mean not at first. The first 141 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: time I came to LA is when the Pistols played. 142 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: We actually didn't play in LA but we did like 143 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 2: twelve shows or whatever it was in January nineteen seventy eight. 144 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: January seventy eight, and we ended in San Francisco and 145 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: we broke up, and me and Cookie the drama and 146 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 2: the manager, Malcolm, we came to LA for a few days. 147 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 2: I didn't really get it at the time. I remember 148 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: we went in the Palm restaurant that was on Little 149 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 2: Santa Monica at the time, and Malcolm's like, yeah, go on, 150 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: do something, throw some lobsters around, and we did it 151 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: like idiots. And then the next day we went to Brazil. 152 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: So I didn't really get the whole thing, but I 153 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 2: did get the whole thing in Hollywood, I mean, you know, 154 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, whatever, Beverly Hills. A couple of years later, 155 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: when I went back there and produced this band called 156 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: the Avengers in San Francisco. They were one of the 157 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: bands that opened up for us on our last show 158 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: at the winter Land, and I produced this little weep. 159 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was doing. I was stoned 160 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: out of my mind on weed. Then I came to 161 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: LA and I hung out for a couple of weeks, 162 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 2: and that's when I fell in love with Los Angeles. 163 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: There was no traffic, big roads, big privacy. It was 164 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 2: just you know, night and day. Coming from Shepherd's Bush 165 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: in London, it was like Dickens, you know, like the 166 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: Dickens to Fantasy Island, you know, Savashmuse I put it 167 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: in my book. There was one moment there was this 168 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 2: lady who I met. She had a big convertible. She 169 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: had the convertible down a big, massive Cadillac whatever it was, 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: and she lived on Beverly Glen and she goes, you 171 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: want to go to see a movie, And we went 172 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: to see a drive in movie and I'm smoking a joint. 173 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: The tops down were just cruising along and I'm like, 174 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 2: I love this place. It just all clicked, coming from 175 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: Dickens to that, you know, Hollywood, you know, it was 176 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 2: the best. 177 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: Oh Man, Yeah, described to me that concert at winter Land, 178 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: because that's when that's when all the wheels fall off. 179 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: Correct, they were falling off before that, but that was 180 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: that was the end. That was like, it didn't look 181 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: like it was going any further. 182 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: Because the show sucked. What was the show? 183 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: Like? 184 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: No, the show, well, I had the flu. It was 185 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: just it was getting sloppy. We was not communicating with 186 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: each other. Everyone's egos were going in different directions. And 187 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 2: we were twenty years old, you know, twenty one, and 188 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: it was just all this bombasket stuff that happened to 189 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: us really quick, and I couldn't handle it. I don't 190 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: know about the rest of the guys. I was relieved 191 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: when we broke up. They were I decided I've had 192 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 2: enough of this. I just I don't see a future 193 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: in it, you know. And that was it, and I 194 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: think it was manipulated a bit by Malcolm McLaren, the 195 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: manager pretend yeah, that's right up his alley. That just 196 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 2: doing stuff like that, just you know, he wanted to 197 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 2: be a star, you know. 198 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: He wanted the band to end. 199 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: I think so that's just his nature. I think the 200 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: fad ended. He don't like normalcy, you know, he likes 201 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: the chaos. 202 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: And maybe he thought you guys were going to go 203 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: much further. If everybody's so self destructive back then and 204 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: you're the manager, you think McLaren thought you guys were, 205 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, reaching the end. 206 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 2: Anyway, I think he's a narcissist or he was a narcissist, 207 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: And I didn't think he fought that deep about other people, right. 208 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: I think he was more about just keeping that. He 209 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: was great at, you know, publicity. He was excellent as that. 210 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: You know, some of the things that he came up 211 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: with with great I love Malcolm. Even though you know 212 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 2: we got turned over financially, I still love McLaren. He 213 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 2: was a big part of my growing up. 214 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: Now when you mentioned that turned over financially, was McLaren 215 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: Was he the partner Westward? Were they together as a couple, 216 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: or no, oh yeah, oh think I don't know that. 217 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I know her name, but I don't know 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: about their relationships. They were a couple, oh yeah, for sure. 219 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: And you first met them where. 220 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: I met them in the shop they had down King's Road. 221 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: And it went through various names, but it was all 222 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: First it was too fast to live, too young to die. 223 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 2: Then it changed selling like teddy boy clothes. I don't 224 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 2: know if that term teddy boys is known in America. 225 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: Yes, of people like me who know British music. 226 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, fifties music, but it wasn't the fifties, but 227 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: they would sell stuff like that, and then it was 228 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: then it was lead it rock, and then it was seditionaries. 229 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: That's when the punk thing, and it was all the 230 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: bondage and all the MPs would go in there and 231 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: try on rob and Nickers and play with themselves. 232 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: They couldn't get elected if you didn't do that, and 233 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: you come up. 234 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 2: It was a great time and now it's cool. World's end. 235 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: It's still viving westward now. 236 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: Now when you say you got tossed financially at various points, 237 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: let's say when you're recording and you're making this epic album, 238 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: and beyond who owns the rights? Who owns that music? 239 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: Well we do now you do, you know? And whoever 240 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: the publisher is for the songwriting. But it has all 241 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: come back to us only because John Wrighton wanted to 242 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: sue him a few years later Malcolm. Yeah, and he did, 243 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: and otherwise it would have all went to Malcolm. We 244 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: had the worst deal. We had one lawyer, it was 245 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: Malcolm's lawyer, and we just signed pieces of paper. We 246 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: didn't even exactly, We didn't know what was going on, 247 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: not that it ain't the first time that happens, and 248 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: it will keep happening. It will keep happening because when 249 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: you're young, you don't know. You just want to get 250 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: out there and you know, get on the stage. 251 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: So when the original series is launched, the idea comes 252 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: to you or anybody for that manner to do Pistol, 253 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: a sixth part dramatic series about you guys. You've got 254 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: to give them the rights to the music. 255 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 2: Correct. Yeah, And we had a problem with John. He 256 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: didn't want to allow it. He didn't want the series 257 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: to happen. Did he say why, Well, I could only 258 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: think that it wasn't his book. They were doing a 259 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: thing on it was mine that could have played a part. 260 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I was thrilled that Danny Boyle 261 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: wanted to do that. 262 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: Great director. 263 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and he did a good job. Nine. I 264 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: loved it. Yeah, it was really good. 265 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: What did you like about it? 266 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: I think, like you said about the filth and the fury, 267 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: how it captured a time. I think he really captured 268 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: the time with all the sets and whatnot. I just 269 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: thought it was great. I just wish they had had 270 00:15:58,200 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: more on me in it. 271 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: What was it like for you to see? Because when 272 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: you do a narrative piece that six episodes or five, 273 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: or a movie that's a couple of hours. There's an 274 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: idea about Steve Jones in Pistol that they want to 275 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: get across the person themselves is a suggestion. The piece 276 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: isn't about your life, you know, verbatim, and in real 277 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: time it's not. It can't be. What do you think 278 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: of the guy that played you? What did you when 279 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: you're watching that guy, you're saying, yeah, that's me. 280 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: I think he did a good job. He's Australian, right, 281 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: so he had to kind of change his accent. He 282 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 2: ain't as good looking as me be sure that's because 283 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: of that saying, yeah, no one. They couldn't find anyone. 284 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: I couldn't absorb it. To be honest, if you when 285 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: i'd see when I see, you know, an episode put 286 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: together in a rough stage, I'm looking at it, I'm like, 287 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: I'm not in that. I'm not in it. It's like 288 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 2: that ain't me, even though he's playing me. I couldn't. 289 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 2: I couldn't absorb it. It was the weirdest feeling. I 290 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: fall down in shit and I always come up smelling 291 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: the roses. You know, God's good for me. 292 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: Musician Steve Jones. If you enjoy conversations with some of 293 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: music's greatest guitarists, check out my episode with Peter Frampton. 294 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 3: Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason 295 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 3: that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard 296 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: the sounds of all these people on TV and on 297 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 3: the radio electric guitar very young. I have a very 298 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 3: acute sense of sound, and I've always had that if 299 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: I don't have a good sound, I can't play very well. 300 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: Hear more of my conversation with Peter Frampton at Here's 301 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: Thething dot Org After the break. Steve Jones shares how 302 00:17:52,480 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: the sex Pistols lineup came to be. I'm Alec Baldwin 303 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Steve Jones and 304 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: the sex Pistols cracked open issues of class and culture 305 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: in Great Britain in the nineteen seventies. Songs like God 306 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: Save the Queen and Anarchy in the UK helped them 307 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: become both a symbol of political turmoil and an international sensation. 308 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: I wanted to know if growing up, Steve Jones ever 309 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: thought he would become a world famous musician. 310 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 2: No, you never. I never thought that, you know. When 311 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 2: I'd watched Top of the Pops, I thought these bands 312 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: and that they fell from mars. I didn't know it 313 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: was possible to do anything like that, you know, And 314 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: and next thing, you know, here I am. You know, 315 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: I steal all this musical equipment. I was good at, 316 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 2: you know, being a tea leaf. I always had did 317 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: these to want to do it because I love music, 318 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: you know, at an early age, and it was just 319 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: one of them things. It seemed totally natural to become 320 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: popular and famous and a big band. I didn't realize 321 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: that most musicians that doesn't happen. 322 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: You know, now, you started off as a singer. You're 323 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: singing and you passed that baton quick Why? 324 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: I couldn't handle it. I got on the stage once 325 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 2: and I just freaked out. It was way too much 326 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: for me. I was not ready for that. This is 327 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: when Malcolm came up with the name Q E. Jones 328 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: and the Sex Pistols. And it was me. I was 329 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: singing this other guy, Wally Nightingale and Glenn Mattlock, the 330 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: original bass player, and we was rehearsing, rehearse in, rehearsing, 331 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: and he like, got us this gig and we're doing 332 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: a lot of covers. I think we had one original. 333 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: We played this Salter's Cafe a down King's Road. I 334 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 2: was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. And I couldn't even 335 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: tell you what happened. It wasn't for me. My self 336 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: esteem weren't good. 337 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: Did it just so happen that you've had a competent 338 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: vocalist near you or did you tell him he had 339 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: to become a vocalist the way you became a guitarist. 340 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: Did he have to work at it? 341 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 2: Well? After that failure show, we auditioned for a singer. 342 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 2: And this when John used to come into Malcolm's shop 343 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: and then we auditioned him in the shop. Now this 344 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: when when I heard this guy, I'm like, who is 345 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: this clown? He can't sing? We don't we don't want it, 346 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: and we want someone like Rod Stewart, you know. But 347 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: that was it, you know, it was it. It was 348 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: this magic and it took you know a little while, 349 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: and then we were like, wow, this is this is rotten? Yeah, yeah, 350 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: and it was complete. Then it was complete. You know. 351 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: Obviously you write about and much has written about you 352 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: that you didn't play the guitar early on as a 353 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: child and so forth, and then you flash ahead and 354 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: you're on Rolling Stones list of the one hundred greatest 355 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: guitarists in history. How did that happen? 356 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: Well, I used to do a lot of speed. Really. 357 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: That gave me the focus. You know, I have that 358 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: thing what kids have now ADT. 359 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: Or whatever it is ADHD. 360 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely had that. I had no attention span. 361 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: I didn't I went to school. I just sat in 362 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: the back and just didn't even learn anything. I couldn't 363 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 2: even read and write, which I sought it out later 364 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: in years after getting clean, and so I actually had 365 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: a tutor to help me read and write. I couldn't 366 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: even sign a check. 367 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: But you dug down and you learned how to play. 368 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: I read where you said you take a chord and 369 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: play that chord for like five hours until you got 370 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: that down. You did it step by step. 371 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: The Black Beauty way of learning guitar, the Black Beauty School. 372 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it now, speaking of Black Beauties. Two 373 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: weeks ago, this past Friday, on the twenty third of February, 374 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: I had my thirty ninth anniversary. 375 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: At AA Oh Beautiful. Now. 376 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: I don't talk about sobriety that much on the show, 377 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: but if I find it's worthwhile, I will. And for you, 378 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: when did you realize something had to change? And how 379 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: quickly thereafter did you change it? 380 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'm thirty three years Cleveland sober. 381 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: That's where I met you. Out there, Yeah yeah. 382 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well I drifted out to California, not the 383 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: time when I fell in love with it. Later, I 384 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 2: was in this band, broke up. We went to England. 385 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 2: I started this other band called the Professionals, and we 386 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 2: did a tour. I ended up in New York. I 387 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: didn't get on the plane. I stayed in New York 388 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 2: for about a year, I sold my passport and then 389 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: I got this other band together, or a band was 390 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: We played at the Pep Momint Lounge. It was like 391 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: a showcase with Michael Debars and two of the guys 392 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: from Blondie and it was great. But they were all 393 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: based in la And then I drifted out to La. 394 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: I detoxed. I went to some methodone place in set 395 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: a high end methadone place in Century City, and I 396 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 2: got clean and I started living with Michael Debars, but 397 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: I wasn't ready to be sober, and so i'd hung 398 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: out with him when I lived with him for a while, 399 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: and then I did start to be aware of alcoholics anonymous, 400 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: but it shook me another six years of being homeless, 401 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: slept on someone's couch who was sober, and then I 402 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 2: would get thirty days, sixty days, you know. I started going. 403 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: I liked it, the attention, it was felt like a 404 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 2: safe place. But I had no clue of what was 405 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: going on. And it took me, you know, a few 406 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 2: more years when the coin dropped and I'm like, I'm done. 407 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, it's the best thing that's ever happened 408 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 2: to me. You know, Prior at his two lives is 409 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 2: before sobriety and now sobriety. I'm not a completely different person, 410 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: and I didn't know. I didn't know that this was 411 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: going to be in my journey at all. But I 412 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: was living up. I was making money at this point, 413 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: and I was living up in the canyon making money 414 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 2: how doing solo stuff. I started working with Iggy Pop 415 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: and Andy Taylor from Duran Duran playing guitar sessions. Yeah 416 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: and right, I couldn't get arrested. Prior to that, I 417 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: had the worst reputation because I couldn't keep my hands 418 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: in my pockets. Everything disappeared and I was just, you know, 419 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 2: a junkie. No one wants to really hang out. So yeah, 420 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: it took a long time. But I remember the last 421 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: relapse that I had. I bet some guy in the 422 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: valley and I was buying balloons off him. It wasn't working, 423 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: and I went back. I took a victim a new bile. 424 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: We were shooting up and I'm like, you know what, 425 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: I need to go back and get my shit together. 426 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: And so I got a bunch of kayludes and some 427 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: other painkillers and I was going to get sober and 428 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: sneak back in to the rooms and no one would know. 429 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 2: And I lasted about two hours and that's when the 430 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 2: coin literally dropped, and I'm like, I'm done. I just 431 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 2: can't do this anymore. And it wasn't financial or anything 432 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: like that. It was emotional and that was it. It 433 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: was just all of a sudden. After go into AA 434 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: for about six or seven years, in and out, in 435 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: and out, that was when the coin dropped, and that's 436 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: when it all changed. 437 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: The book is filled with these brilliant phrases like incomprehensible demoralization. 438 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: That phrase just was tattooed on my forehead. I was 439 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: incomprehensibly demoralized. When you got sober and you stayed sober 440 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: for quite some time, how did that change your life 441 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: in terms of friends. Did you maintain some of the 442 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: old friends and people who weren't sober, or did all 443 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: your friends become sober people. 444 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: I really didn't have a lot of friends. They didn't 445 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: want to be my friend because I wasn't a good friend. 446 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: There was a few. I was so desperate, you know, 447 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 2: I was so desperate when I got sober for real 448 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: that everyone I hung out with was in the rooms. 449 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: But that's what I did. 450 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: That was it. I didn't want to hang out with 451 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 2: other people. I had a friend of mine visit me 452 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: once from England who was a witness school with. His 453 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 2: name was Jimmy Mackin. He was a really, really bad drunk. 454 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: I mean, he was one of them guys. He loved 455 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 2: to fight when he was at a couple of drinks. Anyway, 456 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: he was dry as a bone. And he came to 457 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: visit me and I couldn't wait for him to leave. 458 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: His energy was so bad. I was so uncomfortable around him. 459 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: He was like a time bomb. Yeah, you know, dry 460 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 2: as a bone. And he finally left after a few days, 461 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: and he went back and committed suicide. He was in 462 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: Chiswick Park and put in a car and he put 463 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: the old exhaust pipe into the thing and killed himself. 464 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 2: And you know, my point is is that it's so 465 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: different when you surrender, you know, it's so different when 466 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: you get to that point. I have no idea why 467 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 2: I'm one of the lucky ones that I'm still sober. 468 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: I have no idea because I don't really do anything 469 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 2: different than anyone else. I was definitely a lot more desperate. 470 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 2: It was tough at first, you know, changing and basically 471 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 2: starting from scratch. For me, like I said, I was illiterate. 472 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: I didn't know how to behave. It was all about me. 473 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 2: What can I get? It was all about doing something 474 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: nice for someone because there's going to be something in it. 475 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: For me, I was so self absorbed and me, me, me, 476 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: me me, you know. And when that changed after many years, 477 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 2: it didn't just that when I walked in to the rooms, 478 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 2: and it was that process, that long process, and I'm 479 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: just so grateful. You know. I still go to about 480 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 2: four millions a week in person. Yeah, I just love it. 481 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: I love it, you know. I love being of service. 482 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: I don't like getting old. I will say that. 483 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: Steve Jones. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend 484 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the 485 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. After 486 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: the break, Steve Jones shares the meaning behind the title 487 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: of his memoir Lonely Boy. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're 488 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. Steve Jones and the members 489 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: of the Sex Pistols embodied the nineteen seventies punk scene 490 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom. It also had them rubbing elbows 491 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: with other up and coming artists, designers and musicians like 492 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: Chrissy Hind of the Pretenders. 493 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: Chrissy she used to work in the shop that Malcolm 494 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 2: McLaren Mightavian Westward shop. And I met at here and 495 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 2: she was great, man, she was something else, a real badass, 496 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: you know. And the band started. She used to come 497 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 2: to the shows. She wanted to be in a band. 498 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: I didn't take her seriously. She used to stay with 499 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 2: me sometimes we'd hang out. We had a great time. 500 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: And then she got a band together and then sold 501 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 2: more records than the sex Pistols, you know. And a 502 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 2: great songwriter, a great voice. I love Christie. I see 503 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 2: her all the time. She's in the series. She's in 504 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 2: the show. She can't when she saw it, she's like, 505 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 2: what I'm in this more than you guys. What's going on? 506 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I know, I don't understand. I mean, 507 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 2: I think it was the you know, the political correct 508 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 2: thing to have more women stuff, you know. And the 509 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: girl who played Chrissy was great, and man, I got 510 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: not a bad word to say for Christy. I always 511 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 2: see her when I go over there. But the bottom 512 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 2: line was I was incapable of relationships. All I wanted 513 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: to do was get laid with different people. Once I 514 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 2: got to know someone a little bit, the old Hanson 515 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: just wouldn't stand up, you know what I mean. 516 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: We're done, We're done. The thing about Chrissy that I 517 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: always remember is she had so much respect from people. People. 518 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: You know, Chris, He's interesting, and she's beautiful, and she's 519 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: a very exotic, you know, in her whole package. But 520 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: people really really admire her. And she's a great fucking musician. 521 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: I think she's really at the top of the heap, 522 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: you know. 523 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: She is. You know, it's weird about her. When she 524 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 2: started recording, she had the same producer who produced in 525 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: never Mind the Bollocks, Chris Thomas. She couldn't have anyone 526 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: in the studio when she was singing. She was so 527 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: insecure about her voice. She just couldn't do it. She's 528 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: all right now, but for a few years, a few albums, 529 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 2: she couldn't have anyone around when she was singing. 530 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: So, speaking of your your sexual appetite, of course, there's 531 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: no surprise to any of us that you end up 532 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: on California. Yeah, in your acting career, now, when you 533 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: were on Californication. What did you play? 534 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 2: I played a tour manager. 535 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: And what happened on the show with you and Ducoveny? 536 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: Do you have scenes with Dukeveney? 537 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a few. I went on it and 538 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 2: it was I was only meant to do one episode, 539 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 2: and they liked me and I ended up doing two seasons. Yeah. 540 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: I just said, I don't mind accent, just don't give 541 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: me a lot of lines to remember. Terrible Remember I'm 542 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: terrible at remembering. 543 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: Your book is called Lonely Boy, and that's a very 544 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: powerful thing to say, because when you have that feeling 545 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: about your childhood, Why did you choose that title? 546 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 2: Why? Because I'm always alone even now, even now, even now, 547 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: even with thirty three years of sobriety, there's still that 548 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 2: part of me that just is always got that empty 549 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: feeling of being alone. I don't think that I don't 550 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: think that's ever going to go, you know. And I'm 551 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: not preferred, no, I mean, I've never had a relationship really, 552 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: you know. I'm hard work, man, I'm hard work to 553 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: be around sometimes, you know, especially with in a relationship. 554 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: I've tried it. I actually tried it last year for 555 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 2: about a year and it just it just fizzled out. 556 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 2: I just can't do it right, I just cannot do it. 557 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm damaged. Goods mate. It's not that I 558 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 2: don't want to, but I really don't have the choice 559 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 2: to have it or not. I just don't have the choice. Yeah, 560 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: I just am not. You know, various things happened when 561 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: I was a kid. 562 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: Have you been able to overcome back to some degree 563 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: or is it still as vivid in your mind from 564 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: time to time as it was back then what you 565 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: had to go through with your as a child, as 566 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: a boy. 567 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 2: No, I've definitely overcome it. I'm just left with there's 568 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: some things I think you just can't change. It don't 569 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 2: matter how much work you do on it, on something. 570 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 2: You know. He he molested me once, the stepfather, and 571 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 2: I was like ten. He made me jerk him off, 572 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 2: you know, when my mum was in hospital. But that 573 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: was enough just to throw me off because I'm a sensitive. 574 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 2: I'm a real sensitive and that was it. Coupled with 575 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 2: that and my mother not really being on the ball, 576 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: not a nurturing person, not protecting you, not protecting me. 577 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 2: He came before me. I was I was second fiddle. 578 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 2: We used to have a tin I had therapy once, right, 579 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: and I'm in the therapy office and I'm trying to 580 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 2: explain to the therapist, And I was explaining it to her, 581 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: not for what was going on, but to explain how 582 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 2: poor he was. We used to have a tin bath 583 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: and we would fill it up with a kettle, right, 584 00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: and my mom would go first, then my stepdad, then 585 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 2: I would get in last. The therapist says, it's funny 586 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 2: that they put you in last and not first. Most 587 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 2: normal parents, loving parents. 588 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: With the children, who's cared for first? 589 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, child, And it hit me like a sound of bricks, 590 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: and I started crying my eyes out. It was like 591 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 2: a moment and I never even saw it. You know, 592 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: prior to that. 593 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: Well, whatever you've been through and whatever trouble you've had 594 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: to face and pain you've had to face. When that 595 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: guy you in that shower with the guitar, you play 596 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 1: songs and the tears are rolling down my face because 597 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: of your musical ability, in spite of everything you've had 598 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: happened to you, in spite of all the shit you've 599 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: had to put up with, in spite of what you 600 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: put yourself through as well, you get in there and 601 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: you play those songs and the beauty of your musicianship 602 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: and who you are in your soul as a result 603 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: of everything you went through. I'm telling you, it makes 604 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: me cry every time. Do you have no idea what 605 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: that means to be? Because you're so fucking talented and 606 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: you reach people that way, you reach them. The guy 607 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: in the shower is one of the greatest musicians ever. 608 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 2: Well, I was actually I was actually going to do 609 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 2: one today, a new one, some of them. I really 610 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: appreciate that. 611 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: Ben. 612 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 2: Honestly, you've almost got meat to here that because I 613 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 2: don't think I'm a good musician. 614 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: You are a great You're a great musician. 615 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 2: Man. 616 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: People love you. They love your musicianship, your guitar playing, 617 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: your crazy youth and now people can watch you. You 618 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: think it's like a little amuse boosh, you're floating out 619 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: there to people. Let me tell you something, I look 620 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: forward to those. You're blessed. You're blessed from God. Don't 621 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: forget that. Okay, all right, mate? Thanks a lot, my 622 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: love to you, and thank you for doing this. 623 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 2: Thank you. I had fun. 624 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: My thanks to Steve Jones. If like me, you can't 625 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: get enough of Steve Jones singing in the shower, Visit 626 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: his Instagram page at Jonesy's Jukebox. That's at j O 627 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: n e s y S Jukebox. I'll Leave You with 628 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: No Feelings off of the nineteen seventy seven album never 629 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: Mind the Bollocks. Here's the sex Pistols. I'm Alec Baldwin. 630 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio. 631 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: I'll putty on way. I got a breeze. 632 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know 633 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: I