1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: Message to Bondie, Pam Bondie, the US Attorney General release 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 2: the files, the Jeffrey Epstein files in case you need clarification. Bondie, 4 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: you promised, now deliver. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. Joining 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 2: us tonight is a very special guest, Mark Epstein. This 7 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 2: is the biological brother of Jeffrey Epstein, now dead. 8 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: Mister Epstein, thank you for being with us. 9 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: You're welcome, Mark, if I may call you that. Sure, 10 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: you have been disturbed from day one about the claim 11 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: your brother, Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. You say that did 12 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: not happen. 13 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Why? 14 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, it was sort of like almost 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: day two. What happened. When I first heard that Jeffrey 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 3: was found dead from the parent suicide. I heard it 17 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 3: on CNN. The government didn't notify me as they claimed. 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 3: I heard it on CNN, and at first I had 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: no reason to doubt that, because you know, I knew 20 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 3: he was in jail, he was potentially facing a very 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 3: long term. I knew he wouldn't want to live like that. 22 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: He didn't have any children to worry about. Our parents 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: are gone, and he wouldn't have to worry about me, 24 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 3: So there was no reason to doubt that. But then 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: the next day, the next morning, I had to I 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: had to identify his body because I'm the next of kin. 27 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: And they did the autopsy, and so far, you know 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 3: the same thing. I just assumed it was a suicide. 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 3: But then the city pathologist who did thisice of the 30 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: autopsy with Michael Bottom, there's forensic pathologists on my behalf 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 3: witnessing this. They both came out of the atop the 32 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: room and they said they couldn't call it a suicide 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: because it looked too much like a homicide. Now that 34 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: never appears in any government report and no one speaking 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: about that. The two qualified forensic pathologists who did the 36 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 3: autopsy could not call it a suicide because it looked 37 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: too much like a homicide. And then a few days later, 38 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: Barbara Samson, who was the chief medical examiner, she declares 39 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 3: it was a suicide. And let's be clear, Barbara Sampson 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 3: never saw the body. She wasn't at the autopsy, and 41 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: after the autopsy was over that day, we blamed the body, 42 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: so she never saw it. Just like psh Ptel made 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 3: that statement that you know because he's a prosecutor and 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 3: everything else. He said, you know a suicide when you 45 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 3: see it. I mean he said that in that congressional 46 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 3: or I sent it here in young and the oath 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 3: I would take, and he said, you know his suicide 48 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: when you see it. The first questions that came to 49 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: me we were how many suicides is he's seen? Okay? 50 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: And also he never saw the body, He never saw 51 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 3: the scene. I don't think he was at the scene 52 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: of the crime that day, or I don't know if 53 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 3: he was day afterwards, but that wouldn't matter. Everything seems 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 3: to be covering up the fact that the mythologist who 55 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: did the autopsy wouldn't call it a suicide. Other people 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 3: are called with the suicide, ignoring these very qualified professionals. 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: Doctor Biden has done about five hundred autopsies on prison debts, 58 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: and I'm not sure how many. Doctor Roman did, certainly 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: more than Cashptell. 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: You know, with us, everyone is Mark Epstein. This is 61 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein's brother, who doesn't have a dog in the fight, 62 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: no skin in the game to opine as to whether 63 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: Epstein committed suicide or not. But what he's saying is very, 64 00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: very disturbing. Day one, Mark Epstein, I was concerned about 65 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: the markings. 66 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: And I've prosecuted and investigated. 67 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: Many many homicides more than I can count, and have 68 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: investigated suicides as well to determine if they were homicides. 69 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: And the first thing that jumped out. 70 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: At me was the marking on your brother's neck, which 71 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: was a straight across horizontal ligature mark. 72 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: And when someone hangs themselves. 73 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: Even from the side of a bed, think about Robin Williams, 74 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 2: who committed suicide by use of a ligature from a 75 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: door knob. Okay, this is not a traditional hanging, for instance, 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: from an elevated point. Even from that type of suicide 77 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: from a bed, you would see a you or a 78 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: smiley marking on the neck. 79 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: This was a. 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: Straight horizontal ligature mark, indicative of someone wrangling him with 81 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: a ligature from behind. It's a subtle but important distinction 82 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: which I will discuss momentarily with a forensic expert. Let 83 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: me understand, Mark Epstein, you just stated that you learned 84 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: about the suicide allegation from TV. 85 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was actually in Norfolk, Virginia, having breakfast at 86 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: a restaurant and the television was on don't tune to CNN, 87 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 3: and I saw my brother's picture up here and they 88 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 3: said that he was found dead from an apparent suicide. 89 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 3: That's how I learned about this. I mean the Justice 90 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: Department report. They said they notified me. They did not. 91 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 3: There's a lot of errors in the Justice Department report. 92 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: Why would they have lied about that. 93 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 3: They're trying to make it look like a suicide. 94 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: Why Why do you believe the government. And I'm not 95 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: one for conspiracies, Mark at all. Why because I don't 96 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: think people can keep their yap shut long enough to 97 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: maintain a conspiracy, That's why. 98 00:05:59,040 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: But in this. 99 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: Case, the refusal to release the files that were promised 100 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: to us months ago, promise after promise after promise, the 101 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: confusion around suicide, the homicide, the edited video, and again 102 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 2: we're hearing from d C, well there's nothing in the files. 103 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: Well, if there's nothing in the files, release the files. 104 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: We have got I. 105 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: Think now four suicides connected to your brother's case. Four 106 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: four suicides Jeffrey Virginia Giffrey, your brother, his French counterpart, 107 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: according to law enforcement, and two other alleged victims. Now 108 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: five people commit suicide. Can that possibly be a coincidence, 109 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: Mark Epstein. 110 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: There's also other things that they used a question like 111 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 3: also a few days after the death, Bill Barr, an 112 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: attorney general, you know, came out publicly and stated that 113 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: he saw the video and he saw that nobody went 114 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: in or out of the tier, and that convinced him 115 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: it was a suicide. And when I heard that, I 116 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 3: thought this is ridiculous. I thought, why is the Attorney 117 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: general himself watching this whole night long video, you know, 118 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: putting he up somebody in his office watch it and say, hey, Bill, 119 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 3: nobody went in or out. That was number one and 120 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 3: number two to assume that he was it was a 121 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: suicide because nobody went in or out when there were 122 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 3: twelve other prisoners on that tier, I would not have 123 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: to go in or out of that door if they 124 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: were going to kill somebody on the tier. And I 125 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: was told that shell doors were left unlocked that night. 126 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: And I was also told by somebody who was familiar 127 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: with the prison that they weren't surprised to hear that. 128 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 3: So and also to think that somebody could get to 129 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: Jeffrey's tier, go inside, you know, kill somebody, and then 130 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: leave completely undetected, it's just like a stupid statement that 131 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 3: you know, that's not what you're based on. We can't 132 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 3: find out who the other prisoners on that tier were, 133 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: when did they get there, and where are they now. 134 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 3: There's been no interviews of all the prisoners on the tier, 135 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: which would normally be done in a situation like that. 136 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: There's no record of that. So when I heard Bill 137 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 3: bar say that, and then you know, the forensic pathologist 138 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: said they couldn't call it a suicide because it looked 139 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: too much like a homicide. I mean, if you just 140 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: looked at the facts of this and forget it was 141 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein and forget the case against them for a minute, 142 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 3: you know, this doesn't look like the suicide, you would 143 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: investigate this as a homicide. And then also the night 144 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: when they locked up. But we have there as the 145 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: record of you know, we know about the two gods 146 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: that got in trouble, you know, because they weren't doing 147 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: the rounds, you know, Toba Noel and Michael Thomas. No 148 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: Michael Thomas came on shift in the middle of the night, 149 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: so he wasn't there, and they locked up the tear 150 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: and there's never any there's never ever just one god. 151 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 3: There on reports, there's a mention of an unnamed god 152 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 3: number one and an unnamed god number two. There are 153 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 3: questions who are they and why are they unnamed? Are 154 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 3: they actual prison guards? Could they have been put there to, 155 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: you know, to kill somebody and then they disappeared into 156 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: ether without any record of who they are. There's all 157 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: these unanswered questions that in a normal wear honest face, 158 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 3: even if it was a suicide, these questions would not 159 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: be kept secret. There's too much, too much mystery about it. 160 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, Mark Epstein, if this were 161 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 2: any case but your brothers, everything would be very, very 162 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: transparent with a simple for you Freedom of Information Act request. 163 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: Because Epstein's case is over, he's dead, it is no 164 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: longer an ongoing investigation as it relates to him. So 165 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 2: if that's true, why haven't all of these questions and answered? 166 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: And why haven't these files been released? I've handled literally 167 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: so many cases, thousands of cases, I can't count them. 168 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 2: And when a case is over, When a case is over, 169 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: say the Purp dies or the appeals are exhausted, the 170 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: files are released. The Purp's dead, Epstein is dead, these 171 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 2: files should be released. You know you mentioned FBI director 172 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: Cash Ptel. Did you state Mark Epstein that Patel stated, 173 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: you know, I know a suicide when I see one. 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that it's a public record. He said 175 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 3: that in the of them in hearing. He listed his 176 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 3: credentials as a prosecute. 177 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: He's not a medical doctor, he's a lawyer. 178 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: Well, that's what I said before I said he's not 179 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: a forensic pathologist. He doesn't have a medical degree. I 180 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: even joked, I said, maybe he has a boy Scout 181 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: merit page in first aid. What is he basing his 182 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 3: expertise on. That's a question. Also, I understand something when 183 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: the government quickly calls this suicide, but that sort of 184 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 3: kills any investigation because if it's a suicide, there's usually 185 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 3: there's two questions on the suicide. One how did they 186 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 3: do it? And two? Why? You know? And how do 187 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: they do it? Is usually simple, I say, if you 188 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 3: find somebody spat it on the sidewalk where they jumped 189 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: off of a building, if they're laying in a pool 190 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: of blood with a gun on the floor, well they 191 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 3: shot themselves. You know, it's a pretty simple answer of 192 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: how somebody committed suicide. The why doesn't matter because you know, 193 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,479 Speaker 3: in this case he's dead, but it stops the investigation. 194 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: There's no reason to investigate any further. That's why they. 195 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: Call it, of course, because in jurisdictions, for a suicide 196 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: is a crime, the purp is the dead person. 197 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: It's very obvious. 198 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: So when something is named a suicide, when it's determined 199 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: to be a suicide, that is all investigation. There's nothing 200 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: to investigate if it's a suicide, homicide altogether different. In 201 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: addition to Patel, now the theory is emerging Mark Epstein 202 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 2: that your brother, Jeffrey Epstein, was not just a multimillionaire, 203 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 2: that he was actually a US and Israeli intelligence service spy, 204 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: and that that is why the files are not being 205 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: released because there is sensitive information in the files as 206 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 2: it relates to US security. What do you make of 207 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 2: the claim that your brother was, in a fact an 208 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: intelligence agent. 209 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: Well, I've heard this for years already. This is that 210 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: the first time that's been raised. I have no idea 211 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: to tell me what he was doing. So, and I 212 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 3: said before, I don't want to speculate on anything, Because 213 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 3: I start speculating, I lose credibility. I like to stick 214 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 3: to facts. So I have no idea about what Jeffrey 215 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 3: was doing, if for anything, but I do believe he 216 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 3: was built to quiet for the information he had. 217 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: What information? 218 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I've said publicly before in the in the 219 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen election, he told me that he he didn't 220 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: tell me what he knew, but if he said if 221 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: he knew what he if he said what he knew 222 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 3: about the candidates trumping won, they'd have to cancel the election. 223 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 3: So he obviously had some dirt on on Donald, you know. 224 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 3: So he said if he said what he knew, they'd 225 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: have to cancel the election. That's what he told me. 226 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 3: You can make out of that whatever you want, But 227 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: that's a quovoute. Oh you could take You could take 228 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: that wherever you want. 229 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: What disturbs you the most? 230 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: Mark Epstein, let's get off the allegations that your brother 231 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: was a spy all that, although that has now reared 232 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: its ugly head as an excuse why these files are 233 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 2: not being released. We've all heard of redaction. I've had 234 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: to redact many, many documents before they are released. And 235 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: you are to redact or mark out with a white 236 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 2: man mark. That's what I'm talking about. Redact only sensitive portions. 237 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 2: Why can't the files be released with any intelligence related information? 238 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: If there is any redacted? 239 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: What about the other thousands and thousands and thousands of pages? 240 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: Mark, Well, as far as I'm concerned, they should release 241 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: everything they can. I have no qualms with that, you know. 242 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: And then the question also becomes, you know, if Bill 243 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: Bond made the statement, you know, to quash the investigation. 244 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 3: You know that Jeff it was a suicide, which, like 245 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 3: you said, end's investigations and Krispateell's claiming it's a suicide 246 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 3: without any expertise, without even he never saw the body either, 247 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 3: you know, and it's quickly deemed the suicide. You know, 248 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: who if he was killed, who ordered the hit? So 249 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: to speak? Who are these people covering up for? That 250 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 3: should be the question that we're looking at if it was, 251 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: because most people who look at all the facts believe 252 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: it was a homicide. You know, people see a little 253 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 3: bit here, a little bit there. You know, we get 254 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 3: these fifteen minutes to talk on a podcast or something. 255 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: You have to look at all the facts. That will 256 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 3: take you quite a lot of time. We have mastered 257 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: a lot of information and everyone who has seen the 258 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: bulk of it. Nobody thinks it's a suicide, and so 259 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 3: who is being protected? That's the question. 260 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we are speaking to Mark Epstein. 261 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: This is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. 262 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: And the issue is not whether we like or hate, 263 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: love or hate Jeffrey Epstein. We don't have to condone 264 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: what he was accused of doing. Of course we don't. 265 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 2: The issue is why are these files not being released? 266 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: Now? 267 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: We've been told from the highest source that there is 268 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: no quote client list. There may not be a client 269 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: list in the way that you imagine you open a 270 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: little black book and you go through it alphabetically and 271 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: you find names and phone numbers and emails and addresses. 272 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: That may not exist. 273 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: But those files could contain indications and names, descriptions of events, flights, 274 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 2: and so much more to impugne the integrity of many, 275 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: many highly placed individuals, multimillionaires, celebrities. We don't know. Why 276 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: don't we know? Because the files have not been released. 277 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: And now with claims that the video from the night 278 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: of the death, as Mark calls it, the murder, has 279 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: been doctored, it was released as raw footage. It is 280 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: anything but raw. 281 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: According to expert something. 282 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 3: You know, I don't think somebody got into the tier 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 3: to kill them and then left, So the video is 284 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: not going to show that. But what I want to see, 285 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: which also we can't get, is the video of the 286 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 3: infirmary area of the prison because when Jeffrey was found 287 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 3: dead after they tried to work on him, which I 288 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: don't know why, because the autopsy showed he was dead 289 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,959 Speaker 3: for at least two hours when he was found at least, 290 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: most likely a lot more and there's other reasons for that, 291 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 3: but at least two hours. So he was taken to 292 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 3: the infirmary. When the fire Department EMP people got to 293 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 3: the jail from the nine one one call, Jeff's body 294 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 3: was already in the infirmary. So I'd like to see 295 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 3: the video footage, you know, all the cameras from the pision, 296 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 3: so where he was, through the infirmary and in the 297 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 3: infirmary itself, because this camera's all over that place. We 298 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: can't get any additional video footage because this would show 299 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 3: the condition that Jeff's body was in, how it was handled, 300 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 3: and then there's a picture of them wheeling him out 301 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 3: of the vision. They go to the hospitals on a 302 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 3: gurney and he's got a brace on, and he's in 303 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 3: debated and the DMT guys are squeezing in the air 304 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: balloon to try to get into his lungs. Now, these 305 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: are professional medical people. It's just's been dead for two hours, 306 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 3: So sort of why the charade of trying to make 307 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 3: it look like he was potentially revivable? I mean, they wasn't. 308 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 3: You know the mark in his neck that you saw 309 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: in a photograph, it stayed in his neck. That's the 310 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: indication that he was dead for at least two hours, 311 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 3: you know, So why And then I have a photograph 312 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: of him from the hospital where he's actually wearing a 313 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 3: hospital gown. You know, he's dead on the gurney with 314 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: a hospital gown on. Someone put his arms through the 315 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 3: sleeves and you know it kind of tie in the back. 316 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 3: But why did they dress this dead body in a 317 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 3: hospital gown? Normally dead bodies are either in body bags 318 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 3: are covered by a sheet. So why the charade? Also, 319 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 3: what I was told by people on the scene is 320 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 3: that there was somebody there with a handheld video camera 321 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: in the prison infirmary and in the hospital. Where's the 322 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: footage from that handheld video camera, stuff that wouldn't like, 323 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 3: as you said, would normally be open and available in 324 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 3: a regular case and a regular suicide, but nothing was 325 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 3: being released. 326 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: Mark. 327 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: I've got to tell you something, Mark, I have investigated 328 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 2: and prosecuted and covered literally thousands of homicides of deaths. 329 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: I've never seen a dead body put into a hospital gown. Never, 330 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 2: not once. That's very disturbing. I had not heard that 331 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 2: detail until you just told me that. So you have 332 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: a video of your brother wearing a hospital gown. 333 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 3: Not a video photograph. That's unmistakable. It's Jeffrey in the 334 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 3: hospital gown on the journey in the hospital. Yeah. And 335 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 3: when I when I first when I first saw that, 336 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: I got a question that somebody who was on the seat, 337 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 3: I said, what was Jeffrey wearing when he was found? 338 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 3: I thought, well, if he was wearing a hospital gown 339 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: when he was found, it makes sense. But turns take no, 340 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 3: he wasn't wearing hospital gown. He was wearing the pre's 341 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: an orange shorts and shirt when he was found. So 342 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 3: someone went through the trouble of dressing this dead body 343 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 3: in a hospital. Gain. 344 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: Why do you believe that there is a cover up happening? 345 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: Right now. 346 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: I already know you believe he was murdered. You don't 347 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: refer to it as a suicide or a death. You 348 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: refer to Jeffrey Epstein's murder your brother. Why do you 349 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: believe there's a cover up now, Mark Epstein, Well. 350 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 3: It's always been covered up. It never came out and 351 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 3: said it was, you know, anything other than a suicide, 352 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 3: even though the actual pathologists who did the autopsy, the 353 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: only two, both claimed that they couldn't quote it a 354 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: suicide because it looked too much like a homicide. 355 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: Mark, according to reports, you actually laughed at the handling 356 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: of the so called Epstein files. 357 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 3: Why, well, just again, it's just so blatantly wrong. It's 358 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 3: just wrong the way this is being handled. And the 359 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 3: kids believe as I do, that this is a cover up. 360 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: It's sort of like, you know, every time I said before, 361 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 3: every time they do something, they say something, it just 362 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 3: makes it puts their foot further down their throats. They're 363 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 3: digging a deeper hole for themselves because nobody's believing anymore. 364 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 3: But they're saying even you know, the supporters on the 365 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 3: you know, it's not a part of initial for me, 366 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 3: you know, but the President's supporters that are getting really 367 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 3: annoyed and breaking away because they don't like they don't 368 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 3: like being liked. 369 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: I'm with you on that mark. I'm not a Democrat 370 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: and I'm not a Republican. I really don't care. I 371 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: think they all lie and I have to hold my 372 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: nose when I vote. That said, I don't have a 373 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 2: political dog in the fight, but I know we were 374 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: promised that these files would be released. We were told 375 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: over and over and over, and now they're not. It 376 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: stinks to high Heaven the case is over. Why are 377 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: the files being withheld? You stated that you laughed. What 378 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: is amusing about it is that your Are you laughing 379 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: out of irony? 380 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: What makes you laugh about this situation? 381 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: Well? Well, the thing I really think that was the 382 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 3: main thing was Cash Purtell's line, I which is, how 383 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: stupid is that him to claim, you know, was suicide 384 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 3: when you see when when he didn't see this suicide, 385 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 3: He didn't see Jeff's body or anything about it. This 386 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 3: was almost six years ago and he's now claiming, you know, 387 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 3: with suicide when you see it. I mean, how did 388 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 3: he expect anyone to believe him give him any credibility 389 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: on a statement like that to mean it was funny. 390 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 3: It was just it was so ridiculous. 391 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: Maybe I would laugh if I weren't so disturbed as 392 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 2: a crime victim myself that we're not getting the answers 393 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 2: that we were promised. Do you believe Elaine Maxwell knows anything? 394 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 3: She was around a lot. You know, I have nothing 395 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 3: the personally in this in the dog fight with her, 396 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: but yeah, she probably knows a bunch. She was around 397 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 3: for a lot of this stuff. That was the area 398 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 3: when she and Jeffrey were close. 399 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: Mark Epstein joining us Jeffrey Epstein's brother. He is convinced 400 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: Epstein did not die by his own hand and has 401 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 2: brought up multiple inconsistencies with what we are being told 402 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 2: is true. 403 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: Final thought, Mark. 404 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 3: It's not only me that's convinced. It's everybody who looks 405 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 3: at all the information we've mayreed so far, and there's 406 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 3: more coming in. We're finding new information that will be out. 407 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 3: But again, I don't want to speculate, and I don't 408 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 3: want to put information out that I don't know for sure. 409 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: But there's more stuff coming out, and it's not just me, 410 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 3: it's not just my fight. A lot of people, most 411 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 3: people who've seen it's not all the people who've seen 412 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: all the information we have no but out of that group, 413 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 3: nobody believes it was a suicide. 414 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know, Mark, you just says something else extremely 415 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: interesting to me and significant. It's not just about you. 416 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: It's not just about your brother, Jeffrey Epstein. It's about 417 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: what's right and what's wrong, and broken promises and the 418 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: fact that our whole system is based on seeking the truth, 419 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: regardless of what that truth may be. Maybe we'll get 420 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 2: the files and there'll be nothing in there. Maybe it 421 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: will be this morning I had oatmeal, then I took 422 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: a job in Central Park. I don't know. But the 423 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: fact that we're not getting them, the fact that we're 424 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: being told there's nothing in the files, well, if that's true, 425 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: then release them. 426 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: This is no way to run an investigation. 427 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: In other part is that every American citizen should be 428 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: concerned that here you have an American citizen who was 429 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 3: killed in in prison under federal protection. Yeah, that should 430 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: that should diserve everybody if that could happen. Well, so 431 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: what's part of the story is that in a few 432 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: days after the death, they were trying to have to 433 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 3: appeal the bail decision. Jeffrey to see if he can 434 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 3: get bail, and he was putting up it would have 435 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 3: been the largest bail in US Street. And the hearing 436 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: was coming up for that, so you know, again I 437 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 3: wasn't involved on the day to day thing, and I 438 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 3: found out about that afterwards that the hearing was soon 439 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 3: to come. And I know Jeffrey. I would say, well, 440 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 3: you know, if he was going to commit suicide, he 441 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: would wait to see if he got bailed, because if 442 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 3: he got bailed, he'd be out of jail. He'd be 443 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 3: living in his house with an ankle monitor on and 444 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 3: armed guards to make sure he didn't go anywhere, and cameras, 445 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 3: you know, but he wouldn't be in jail. So why 446 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 3: would you kill yourself before that bail hearing. I could 447 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 3: see if he had the bail hearing and it was denied, 448 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 3: and then he didn't want to spend another jail year 449 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 3: in jail awaiting trial. Okay, another's not your reasons to 450 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 3: take yourself out. But that hearing didn't come up yet, 451 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 3: it was soon to happen, So why would he kill 452 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: himself before the hearing for bail? Doesn't make sense, anybody. 453 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. 454 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: It doesn't makes his mister Epstein, we wait as God 455 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: willing justice unfolds. 456 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: Goodbye, Miss Epstein. 457 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: Joining us now is a very special guest, Spencer Couven, 458 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: chief legal Officer Gold Law, who has represented nine Epstein victims, 459 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: nine nine now. 460 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: Prosecuted a lot of cases. 461 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: And when I would have three or four victims, that 462 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: would be like an avalanche. You, a single lawyer, have 463 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: represented nine, which tells me that there are many, many 464 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 2: more out there, probably that we don't even know about. 465 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: It's concerning to me, mister con First of all, thank 466 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 2: you for being with us. 467 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: That there are five. 468 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 2: Suicides, five alleged suicides connected to this case. Does somebody 469 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: in this universe want me to believe that five people 470 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: connected to this case all committed suicide? And let's see, 471 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: there's Epstein, there's Virginia'sjufray, There's a French Epstein who was 472 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: a pimp of little girls. There was Carolin Angiano, and 473 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: there was leip sky Patrick. That's five people, three of 474 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: those Epstein victims, three dead. One is Epstein and the 475 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 2: other is his French counterpart. That they would trade little girls. 476 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: As you're just twelve years. 477 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: Old, he ends up dead. 478 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: Wow, are any of your clients worried about how people 479 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: connected to this case are dropping dead light flies. 480 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 4: I got to tell you, Nancy, you know a couple 481 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,159 Speaker 4: of issues. First of all, the moment he was re 482 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 4: arrested in New York, when his plane landed, or New 483 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 4: Jersey at that moment, I did an interview shortly thereafter, 484 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 4: advising the general public he was never making it out alive, 485 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 4: and you know, prophetically he didn't. I was one of 486 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 4: the first said he wouldn't make it out alive, and frankly, 487 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: I continue to be a disbeliever in the story that's 488 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 4: been populated by the FEDS and the Department of Justice. 489 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 4: There are just way too many connections here. I can 490 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 4: also tell you exclusively because I don't know that I've 491 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 4: ever talked about this before, but shortly after he passed 492 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 4: in jail, I received a call from one of the 493 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 4: guards at the facility who had retired. This is somebody 494 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 4: that wasn't working there at the time, but was able 495 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 4: to speak with me on authority because he had worked 496 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 4: there and said, there is no way that someone within 497 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 4: that type of a facility could have the opportunity to 498 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 4: commit suicide. This is the most secure, one of the 499 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 4: most secure prisons we have in the United States. It 500 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 4: is a prison within a prison within a prison. It 501 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 4: is three levels of high security, constantly monitored. And it 502 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 4: was unbelievable to him that somebody in there would potentially 503 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 4: be able to commit suicide. And then look at the photographs. 504 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 4: This is a gentleman that was on suicide watch just 505 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 4: a few weeks prior, and yet they give him sheets, 506 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 4: and they give him pill bottles, and they give him wires. 507 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 4: In the photographs you can see all of the things 508 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 4: that they gave him that potentially they could then use 509 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 4: later to say, oh, well, look at all this stuff 510 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 4: he used to commit suicide. It's just absolutely unbelievable. It's 511 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 4: unbelievable to me, it's unbelievable to the victims I represent. 512 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 2: Well, Spencer hold on moment, I want to follow up 513 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: before I lose the thought. Spencer Coban joining US Chief 514 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: Legal Officer gold to Law, who has represented nine and 515 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: counting Epstein victims. 516 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: I've been in a lot of prisons and a. 517 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: Lot of jails, a lot more than I can even 518 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: remember since I started prosecuting violent crimes in nineteen eighty seven. 519 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: That said Spencer, You're right. 520 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: Never in any jail, any penitentiary that I have, any 521 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 2: youth facility, a GV jail that I've ever seen, did 522 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: a cell have as much strewn around as the Epstein 523 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: jail cell. When I saw that, I'm like, that's impossible. 524 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: Inmates are not allowed all of those sheets, blankets, acute trema. 525 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 2: That doesn't happen. Why Because it is a homicide suicide risk. 526 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: Those sheets can be torn into strips and used to. 527 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 1: Commit a homicide. You do not see that in a facility. 528 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,239 Speaker 2: And the moment I saw that, Spencer, I knew it 529 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: was wrong. 530 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: What we're showing right now that would never happen. 531 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: Anybody in the justice system knows this is no in oh, Spencer. 532 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 4: This is top level security prison, right, this is where 533 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 4: we hold terrorists and high level prisoners. You're absolutely right, Nancy, 534 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 4: there is no way. And I've been inside jails as 535 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 4: well in the work that I do on behalf of victims, 536 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 4: interviewing people, and this is just impossible. It was impossible 537 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 4: to believe when I saw it. It was impossible to 538 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 4: believe on behalf of my clients. I couldn't believe it 539 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 4: at the time, and my clients couldn't believe it either. 540 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 4: You know, it's just atrocious, and I want to bring 541 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 4: you back. You know, I've been representing victims going back 542 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 4: to the original prosecution of this case in Palm Beach. 543 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 4: I represented victim number one, that was a fourteen year 544 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 4: old girl that I helped walk through the criminal justice 545 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 4: and then subsequently the civil justice system, which started the 546 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 4: landfall of future victims of Jeffrey Epstein. And you said 547 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 4: before how many. I can tell you that in my 548 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 4: contacts with the FBI during those investigations, there were literally 549 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 4: hundreds of victims, hundreds of young girls who had been 550 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 4: trafficked by Epstein and Maxwell. They were out there. And 551 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 4: then there were more than hundreds that actually submitted claims 552 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 4: when the funds were seized over in the Virgin Islands 553 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 4: after his arrest. So the victims are numerous, The stories 554 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 4: are voluminous. They involve high profile individuals in the business community, 555 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 4: high profile politicians, royalty, you name it. Jeffrey Epstein had 556 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,959 Speaker 4: the goods on all of them, and there were a 557 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 4: lot of people. I have no doubt that we're afraid 558 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 4: of what you had to say. 559 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 560 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 2: I'm curious, Spencer Couven and I recall when you said this, 561 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: when Jeffrey Epstein touched down at the private airstrip at 562 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 2: Titterborough and he was arrested. You said, he'll never make 563 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: it out of jail, He'll never come out alive. 564 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: He'll be killed. You called it. How did you know 565 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: that was going to happen? 566 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: I know you're not clairvoyant, so you had to deduce 567 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: from the facts that he would be killed behind bars, 568 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: and you were right. 569 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 4: I got to tell you based on the information not 570 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 4: only that I knew at the time that I could disclose, 571 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 4: but based on the information that I still to this 572 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 4: day unfortunately can't disclose based on attorney client privilege and 573 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 4: the people that were involved in some of these trading 574 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 4: for sexual favors over the years. There was just no way. 575 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 4: These people were at too high of a level, They 576 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 4: were too influential, and someone like Epstein with that type 577 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 4: of information I just knew, was never going to make 578 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 4: it out of that system alive. It just wasn't going 579 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 4: to happen. 580 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 2: We are showing you video now of the prison cell in. 581 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: Which Epstein died. His brother tells me. 582 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: He refuses to call a suicide because he's convinced it's 583 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: a homicide. And again, he's got no skin in the game, 584 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 2: no dog in the fight. It doesn't affect the brother 585 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: one way or the other, whether it's a suicide or 586 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 2: a homicide. 587 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: He's not getting any money out of it. He's not 588 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: doing a book. 589 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: Deal as far as I know, he's just saying this 590 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 2: is no suicide. If you look at that video, Spencer, 591 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: it shows the elevator, which is the only way in 592 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: and out, although I'm sure they've got to have an 593 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: emergency exit stairs, right. But that said, I think that 594 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: may be pictured in the video as well, near the 595 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 2: there you go by the elevator. That said, that doesn't 596 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: exclude or preclude his neighbors who had been moved in 597 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: and out of the sale block, who was there that night. Amazingly, 598 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 2: those names have not been released. What do you make 599 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 2: of it, Spencer? 600 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 4: You know, there are a number of things. And I 601 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 4: heard your interview with his brother shortly before, and he 602 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 4: makes an excellent point with respect to the video. We 603 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 4: don't see the video of him in the infirmary. In 604 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 4: the infirmary, we need to see that video to see 605 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 4: what learns he had as he came out of hisself. 606 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 4: But more importantly, who was working on that block that night. 607 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 4: We need to see the interviews, We need to see 608 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 4: the names of the people that are involved, and we 609 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 4: need to see all of that video, not just the 610 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 4: snippets they've decided to show to us. And we all 611 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 4: know in this day and age, video can easily be edited. 612 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 4: If you watch that video and the timecode and the video, 613 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 4: and I've watched it numerous times now, there are sections 614 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 4: of that where the timecode jumps and it is weird. 615 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 4: It's strange. I don't know what to make of it. 616 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 4: But if this is the raw video, I would be surprised. 617 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 4: I think they've processed this video through something and that 618 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 4: they've probably cut things out, but I can't be sure 619 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 4: of that. But at the end of the day, release 620 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 4: the names of the people that were on that block 621 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 4: and let us know who was there, so that the 622 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 4: public can talk to them and interview them like you're 623 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 4: doing here today with me, and find out what they know. 624 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 2: Spencer, I think we should demand more than that. I 625 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: don't want just a list of names prepared by the government. 626 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 2: I don't believe that anymore. And I'm certainly not a 627 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist at all. Again, I don't think people can 628 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 2: keep their yap shut long enough to maintain a conspiracy. 629 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: But unlike any other case that has been closed with 630 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 1: this case is closed with the death of Epstein. 631 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 2: This is subject to for your Freedom of Information Act. 632 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 2: There is no reason for these files not to be released. 633 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 2: We were promised to release. It didn't happen. Why we're 634 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: being told, oh, there's nothing there. Well, if there's nothing there, 635 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 2: then why not release the files. I think we need 636 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: the entire set of files, not a list that somebody 637 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 2: in DJ makes up pursue it to what their boss 638 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 2: tells them to do. 639 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: I don't believe that anymore. You also say that. 640 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 2: You're convinced one hundred percent sure that everything has not 641 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: been released, and you are falling back on thousands of 642 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 2: hours of surveillance video from Epstein's homes that remain sealed, 643 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 2: so you know for a fact everything has not been released. 644 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 4: It is absolutely certain that everything hasn't been released. And 645 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 4: the RUS with respect to release the grand jury testimony, Again, 646 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 4: that is only a very small snippet of information. We're 647 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 4: talking thousands of hours of videotape surveillance in home camera 648 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 4: videos that were taken from the Manhattan mansion, the Saint Thomas, 649 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 4: Virgin Island mansion, and the Palm Beach mansion that I 650 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 4: know exists because I was one of the only attorneys 651 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 4: early on in the case to actually walk through Epstein's 652 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 4: Palm Beach mansion after the incident and during our case, 653 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 4: and I saw firsthand places where he had put the 654 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 4: video cameras in the rooms inside of his home, in 655 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 4: the corner of those rooms, including in bedrooms, his massage room, 656 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 4: and other places in the home. I know it exists. 657 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 4: The FBI knows it exists, and I guarantee that the 658 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 4: Department of Justice has done summaries of the videotapes. Where 659 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 4: are the summaries? Where are the people identified in the videos? 660 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 4: Where are the videos? You know, at the end of 661 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 4: the day, the public needs to see this information and 662 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 4: judge for themselves. And you're right. If there are miners 663 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 4: that are identified in there, redact those names. If there 664 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 4: are videos of miners, you know, blur the images. But 665 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 4: who else was in this home? Who was there and 666 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 4: who was part of this criminal enterprise that Epstein ran 667 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 4: for years? 668 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: Spencer. Question. 669 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: Guys joining me Spencer Couven chief legal officer Gold Law, 670 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 2: who has represented so far and counting nine of Epstein victims. 671 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 2: Do you believe, Spencer, that any of your clients, some 672 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 2: miners at the time, do. 673 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: They have reason to believe they were videoed? 674 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 4: All of them that were inside the home had a 675 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 4: fear that they were video taped. Absolutely, because once it 676 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 4: came out that there were cameras in the home, then 677 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 4: they were afraid that there were going to be videotapes 678 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 4: that were going to be released of them. And they 679 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 4: still to this day live in fear. You know, I 680 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 4: mentioned I represented victim number one. You know, she has 681 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 4: still been anonymous up until this day. It has been 682 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,560 Speaker 4: almost twenty years since those cases were prosecuted, and both 683 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 4: in civil and criminal court, and you know, even to 684 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 4: this day, she's been anonymous and she's afraid that her 685 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 4: identity will be disclosed in some of these videos. 686 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 2: Well, not only should she be concerned about the video 687 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 2: being released and she's in the video, but they are 688 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: already five dead bodies piled up, five dead bodies, three 689 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 2: of them Epstein victims. I assume you've brought that to 690 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: the attention of your clients. 691 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: Correct. 692 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 4: Oh, I didn't need to bring it to their attention. 693 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 4: They brought it to my attention. They are all very afraid. 694 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 4: They're concerned for themselves, they're concerned for their family members. 695 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 4: You've got to remember this was a defense team even 696 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 4: at the time that was so hard on these victims 697 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 4: that they had people in SUVs following them at all 698 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 4: hours of the night, showing up at their jobs, you know, 699 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 4: questioning them and making veiled threats, you know, about if 700 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 4: they talk, what could happen to them. So they are 701 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 4: very afraid when they start seeing bodies pile up around 702 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 4: this whole Epstein debacle. And I call it a debacle 703 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 4: because of the way that the federal government and the 704 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 4: state government handed handled this prosecution. It was an absolute 705 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 4: debacle from the beginning. And now you know, people are 706 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 4: trying to, I believe, cover up the truth and cover 707 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 4: up what occurred. Listen, I know for certain. 708 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 2: Well settle hand Spencer, because it seems like everyone that 709 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 2: speaks out mates with misfortune. 710 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sad. It's sad. 711 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 4: You know. I was going to say, I know for 712 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 4: certain that there are individuals high up in the corporate 713 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: world who have not been disclosed that were customers of 714 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 4: the Epstein Maxwell trade. I know they exist. I just 715 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 4: can't talk about them because of attorney client privilege and 716 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 4: clients that were traded to them. But they exist and 717 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 4: they haven't been disclosed. That information's out there and the 718 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 4: government should release all the names. 719 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:10,479 Speaker 1: Okay. 720 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 2: Spencer Kavian is joining as chief legal officer at Gold Law, 721 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: representing and counting nine Epstein victims. I'd like you to 722 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 2: repeat what you just said in regular people talk. 723 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: Okay. 724 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 2: Not everyone is familiar with the intricacies of the Epstein case, 725 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 2: and I find what you said just then extremely privative. 726 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,879 Speaker 2: Please repeat regarding corporate clients of Epstein's. 727 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,319 Speaker 4: So, I know for certain that a number of my 728 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 4: clients have been traded to high level corporate individuals on 729 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 4: Palm Beach Island that would come and visit the island 730 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 4: and then make a call to the home and either 731 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,359 Speaker 4: get Maxwell or Epstein and tell them they were in 732 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 4: town and they would like someone's quote sent over. Those 733 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 4: individuals told me in confidence based on attorney client privilege, 734 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 4: which we then relayed to the defense team for Epstein. 735 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 4: Those cases resolved and settled quietly under confidentiality. Now, both 736 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,439 Speaker 4: my clients and Epstein wanted to remain confidential. In that circumstance, 737 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,719 Speaker 4: I can't disclose those people's names. I'm duty bound under 738 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 4: my privilege and I'm not allowed to disclose it. But 739 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,720 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, I know those people 740 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 4: exist and those people's names should be disclosed by the government. 741 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 2: Spencer Couven, you know you're preaching to the choir right now, 742 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 2: you are preaching to the choir. 743 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,399 Speaker 1: I know this is wrong. I know this is wrong, and. 744 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,319 Speaker 2: I also know that whoever speaks out and calls it 745 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 2: wrong is courting misfortune. I know that we wait as 746 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 2: justice unfolds, God willing. 747 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Couven. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye. Friend. 748 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 2: Is the saf