1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. So we've 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: got a lot of people who have asked us to 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: talk about the Treaty of White Tangy, and this is 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: including a listener mail that we read on the podcast 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: a very long time ago in which I pronounced white 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Tangy terribly, like really really badly. Somebody later wrote in 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: and said that I did a good job, and I'm 10 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: pretty sure that person was kidding, because I did a 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: very bad job. I'm behind. Yes, I'm I'm hoping to 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 1: do a better job today. I've been listening to a 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: whole lot of film from New Zealand. So this is 14 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: a treaty that was signed by representatives of the British 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Government and the Mowing of New Zealand, or as it's 16 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: known in the Maori language Ao Taroa, and that means 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: land of the Long White Cloud. So this is the 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: document that established New Zealand as a nation. And unlike 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: with many, many, many other treaties between the British government 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: and indigenous peoples that had happened earlier in history. The 21 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: spirit of this agreement was really to see to the 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: best interests of both the Maori and the Crown, which 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: makes it kind of an anomaly UH and kind of 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: groundbreaking in the words are in the world of like 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: colonial and indigenous relations. However, the English and Maori texts 26 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: of this treaty are so different that they're almost fundamentally 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: different documents, and so debate over exactly what the treaty 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: meant and how it should be interpreted started almost immediately, 29 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: And given the history of mankind on the earth, it 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: should also be a surprise to no one that not 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: everything afterward followed the original spirit of the treaty anyway. 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to talk about today, this 33 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: treaty and how it came about and some of what 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: it led to you. And you know, as with any treaty, 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: there are pros and cons to it. But when you 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: look at the grand spectrum um of relations between UH 37 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: colonizing governments and indigenous peoples, this one was a lot 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: of different, a lot different than a lot of what 39 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: came before. So we're gonna do a little bit of 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: groundwork here about New Zealand UH Dutch explorer Able Tasman 41 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,839 Speaker 1: first sighted New Zealand in sixteen forty two, and then 42 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: James Cook's cabin boy, who was called Young Nick, spotted 43 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: it again in seventeen sixty nine. Europeans were fairly slow 44 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: to arrive in New Zealand from that point, so the 45 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: whalers and the steelers came first, and then missionaries followed 46 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: not long after. By the eighteen thirties, they were approximately 47 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five thousand Maori living in New Zealand, 48 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 1: and a few British settlers made it a frontier outpost 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: of New South Wales, which at the time was a 50 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: British penal colony. Overall, for the most part, early relations 51 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: between the Maori and the Europeans who were arriving in 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: New Zealand were mostly peaceful. There were occasional disputes and fights. However, 53 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: the British law did not extend to New Zealand because 54 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand wasn't British territory, and so this meant that 55 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: there really was not any law governing the British subjects 56 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: who wound up there, who naturally did not feel like 57 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: they were beholden to Maori law. And so this was 58 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: especially problematic given that many of the subjects of the 59 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: Crown who made their way to New Zealand were convicts 60 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: who had escaped from New South Wales. So you had 61 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: people who were convicted criminals making their way to this 62 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: other island where there were no laws to govern them. 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: And as more people moved in, uh, trading efforts started 64 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: to grow because people need things, and so more than 65 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: one thousand British ships began visiting New Zealand every year, 66 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: and New Zealand started to become more appealing to other 67 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: European governments as a consequence, including France. Eventually, as the 68 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: population of Europeans started to grow, some of them asked 69 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: the British government to help establish some kind of official 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: system to try to maintain order. It was this kind 71 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: of lawless place among the European settlers at this point. 72 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: They were also a lot of the British subjects were 73 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: hoping for protection that would prevent the encroachment of other 74 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: European governments, and at first the British were really not 75 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: eager to do this. They did not really want to uh, 76 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, extend their holdings into New Zealand at all, 77 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: so Eventually, in eighteen thirty five, a man named James 78 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: Busby was given the official post of British Resident in 79 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: New Zealand, and this was sort of like being a 80 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: consular official. He was there to represent the Crown, that 81 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: was his job, but he really didn't have any actual 82 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: power and he had almost no support from the British government, 83 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: so consequently people called him the Man of War without guns. 84 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: One of Buzzby's acts as British Resident, which kind of 85 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: cracked me up as a title for some reason, although 86 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: one that was done without any authority to do so, 87 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: was to draw up a declaration of Independence of the 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: Northern Chiefs. And this document declared New Zealand a sovereign 89 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: nation under the absolute rule of its hereditary chiefs and 90 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: tribal leaders. And his goal wasn't so much to make 91 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: the Maori independent as to try to block the French 92 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: from making their own treaty and taking the colony over. 93 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: Yes that Britain was not currently at war at Pramp 94 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: when this was going on, but they had been in 95 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: the recent past and for many many years, so they 96 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: were at best a little wary of each other. All 97 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: I can think of is the Eddie izard bit where 98 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: he does do you have a flag? It is actually 99 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: a lot like this for you. Yes, there is real 100 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: There was a real discussion about we need to get 101 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: the flag. We need to get a flag for the 102 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: New Zealanders. People will be more respectful of New Zealand 103 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: if it has a flag like that was a real 104 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: step in this whole process that we're not going into 105 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: a lot of detail about today. So Buzzby presented this 106 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: declaration to thirty four Maori chiefs at his home on 107 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: the North Island. So additional chiefs then were originally present, 108 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: eventually signed the document, and then in ninety six the 109 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: Crown officially acknowledged Maori nationhood based on the existence of 110 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: this declaration. And before this point, the Maori had not 111 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: really had the concept of the state as part of 112 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: their worldview. In their social structure, each tribe governed itself 113 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: under the leadership of a chief known as rangatira. However, 114 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: as word of the declaration of independence spread, it solidified 115 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: the idea among the Maori that they were in fact 116 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: in charge of their own affairs and able to govern themselves. 117 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: So this declaration, though only gave New Zealand a temporary 118 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: respite from the influence of all these political factions from Europe. 119 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: By the late eighteen thirties there were about two thousand 120 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: settlers from Europe living in New Zealand, and a number 121 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: of British businesses and shipping companies were planning to scale 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: up their operations there, and there, of course was also 123 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: interest substantially from France. There were also huge amounts of 124 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: trade going on between New Zealand and New South Wales, 125 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: so the Maori wanted to begin trading with other nations themselves, 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: but doing so was difficult without being first officially recognized 127 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,679 Speaker 1: as a nation, which brings us back to the question 128 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: of whether they had a flag, which was a real 129 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: point of discussion uh in all of this, in a 130 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: move that was definitely as much about protecting its own 131 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: interests from France as protecting the Maori from anybody. In 132 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty nine, the British government dispatched William Hobson of 133 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: the Royal Navy to go to New Zealand and negotiate 134 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: on behalf of the crown, and his assignment was to 135 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,119 Speaker 1: establish a treaty with the Maori, and once that was done, 136 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: he was to act as Lieutenant governor for any part 137 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: of New Zealand that would agree to become a British colony. 138 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: Hobson got a lot of direction about exactly what he 139 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: was supposed to do, and included in all of this 140 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: were these instructions from Lord normanby the Colonial Secretary regarding 141 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: this assignment. This is quote. All dealings with the Aborigines 142 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: for their lands must be conducted on the same principles 143 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: of sincerity, justice, and good faith as must govern your 144 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: transactions with them for the recognition of Her Majesty's sovereignty 145 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: in these islands. Nor is this all. They must not 146 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: be permitted to enter into any contracts in which they 147 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: might be ignorant and unintentional authors of injuries to themselves. 148 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: You will not, for example, purchase from them any territory 149 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: the retention of which by them would be essential or 150 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: highly conducive to their own comfort, safety, or substance. The 151 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: acquisition of land by the Crown for the future settlement 152 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: of British subjects must be confined to such districts as 153 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: the natives can alienate without distress or serious inconvenience to themselves. 154 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: To secure the observance of this rule will be one 155 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: of the first duties of their official protector. So if 156 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: you know anything about relations with indigenous people in the 157 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: world before this point, this is basically the opposite of 158 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: how a lot of these treaties were previously carried out, 159 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: Like there were many many treaties in the settlement of 160 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: what is now the United States and in Africa and 161 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: in the South Pacific and in South America that we're 162 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: basically like, here is this treaty where we're gonna make 163 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: you think you're getting a good deal, but we, the 164 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: people who are colonizing, are actually taking you for a 165 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: giant ride. So this was specifically at this point the 166 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: world having learned that this was a bad thing to 167 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: do UH against the rules, like he he was supposed 168 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: to get down there and actually put a treaty together 169 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: in good faith. And so, considering the tone of a 170 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: lot of earlier treaties between the British UH and Indigenous 171 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: People's or later Americans and Indigenous People's or whoever and 172 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: indigenous people's UH, this was hugely progressive um. But at 173 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: the same time, some of the flavor of the instruction 174 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: was also kind of racist, since a big underlying tone 175 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: of all of it was that from the British point 176 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,359 Speaker 1: of view, the Maori were not actually capable of handling 177 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: their own affairs, so they're Although it was a big 178 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: step forward in relations with indigenous people, it was not 179 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: entirely free from problems. Hobson arrived on January twenty nine, 180 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: eighteen forty, and he had been corresponding with George Gipps, 181 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: who was Governor of New South Wales, about what exactly 182 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: should go into the treaty, and once he arrived, Hobson 183 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 1: also worked with his secretary, who was named James Freeman, 184 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: as well as James Buzzby, who we discussed earlier on 185 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: completing this treaty. So they basically got completely down to 186 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: the wire on putting the treaty together. They had summoned 187 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: all of these chiefs to a big meeting uh but 188 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: they didn't have a draft of the treaty to actually 189 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: have translated until the night before. So on the eve 190 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: of this meeting they handed the treaty over to Henry Williams, 191 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: who was a missionary, and Williams translated the text into 192 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: Maori with the help of his son Edward. At this point, 193 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: the Williams had established relationships with the Maori, and they 194 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: spoke the Maori language, but they really did not have 195 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: a lot of time to put their translation together. On 196 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: February five, once again in Buzby's home, the representatives of 197 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: Britain presented the treaty to about five hundred assembled Maori, 198 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: and while there was extensive discussion, no agreement was actually signed. 199 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: The next day, which was February six, after a little 200 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: more discussion, forty five chiefs did sign the treaty. The 201 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: first to sign was the chief named hona Heke, who 202 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: was also called Hone Pocai, and he felt a treaty 203 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: with the British was their best option. The day before 204 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: the treaty was signed, he reportedly said to Hobson, Governor, 205 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: you should stay with us and be like a father. 206 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: If you go away, then the French and the rum 207 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: sellers will take us Maori over. So hana Heck's support 208 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: was really instrumental in getting a lot of the other 209 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,359 Speaker 1: chiefs to sign the treaty, and from there the original 210 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: treaty as well as copies of it, were sent around 211 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: the islands to gather additional signatures, and in the end, 212 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: uh more than five hundred Maori signa jurors were applied 213 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: to the document, and thirteen of the signatures were from women. Overwhelmingly, 214 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: the Maori who signed the treaty signed a Maori language version, 215 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: with at least one British subject signing as well. And 216 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: who this British signatory was varied from place to place. 217 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: Not every rangatira signed the document. Some of them never 218 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: got a chance to, because while copies of the treaty 219 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: were distributed, they didn't make it to every single part 220 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: of the islands that make up New Zealand. There were 221 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: also definitely chiefs who opposed the treaty on the grounds 222 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 1: that the protections that were being granted were just not 223 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: enough to outweigh the independence that they would be giving up. 224 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: There were also chiefs who were suspicious of the British 225 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: government's intent about the whole thing. And then farther inland, 226 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: there were chiefs who just didn't see the point because they, 227 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: not being from the more coastal areas, hadn't actually had 228 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: a lot of contact with people from Europe by then. 229 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: And even though not every chief had signed, the British 230 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: government felt that the treaty applied to all Maori, whether 231 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: they had signed it or not. They also almost universally 232 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: viewed the English language version of the text as the 233 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: true version of the text. Within a few years, British 234 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: officials admitted that crown sovereignty would outweigh Maori leadership when 235 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: the two were in conflict. Uh, hey, treaty, Do you 236 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: want to pause for a moment from our Pacific adventure 237 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: for a word from a sponsor? So to get back 238 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: to this treaty itself. The Treaty of Whitangy opens with 239 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: a preamble and that's followed by three articles. Article woman quote. 240 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: The chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of 241 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: New Zealand and the separate and independent chiefs who have 242 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: not become members of the Confederation, seed, to Her Majesty, 243 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: the Queen of England, absolutely and without reservation, all the 244 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: rights and powers of sovereignty which the said Confederation or 245 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: individual chiefs respectively, exercise or possess, or may be supposed 246 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: to exercise or to possess over their respective territory as 247 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: the sole sovereign thereof. So the extremely short and oversimplified 248 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: version of this is basically, you, the British, are the 249 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: boss of us the Maori as of now yeah. So 250 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: Article two reads, Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms 251 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: and guarantees to the chiefs and tribes of New Zealand, 252 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: and to the respective families and individuals thereof, the full, 253 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: exclusive and undisturbed possessions of their lands and estates, forest, fisheries, 254 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: and other properties which they make collectively or individually possess, 255 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: so long it is as it is their wish and 256 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: desire to retain the same in their possession. But the 257 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: chiefs of the united tribes and the individual chiefs yield 258 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: to Her Majesty the exclusive right of preemption over such 259 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate 260 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: at such prices as may be agreed upon between the 261 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: respective proprietors and the persons appointed by Her Badesty to 262 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: treat with them on that behalf. So the oversimplified summation 263 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: on that one is, UH, you can keep your land 264 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: and your stuff unless you want to give it to us. Uh. 265 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: If you want to do that, we'll figure out a price. 266 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: Article three is in consideration thereof her Majesty, the Queen 267 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: of England extends to the natives of New Zealand, her 268 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: Royal protection and imparts to them all the rights and 269 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: privileges of British subjects. That one's already pretty short, but 270 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: it basically it exchange for giving up their sovereignty, the 271 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: Maori get the protection of the crown and the rights 272 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: and privileges that are due to British subjects. And the 273 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: document ends with an epilogue which essentially states that both 274 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: parties have entered into the spirit of the treaty, which 275 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: has been important in determining whether future acts violated the treaty. 276 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: Uh it's the spirit, not the letter. So that's the 277 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: English parts. But there are some huge and important and 278 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: meaningful differences between the English and the Maori texts in 279 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: almost every part of the entire treaty, and those differences 280 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: start right from the beginning. The English preamble is focused 281 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: on providing for British settlement of New Zealand while also 282 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: protecting the Maori's interests as well as setting up a 283 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: government in the interest of maintaining peace and order. But 284 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: the Maori preamble is focused on securing Maui claims to 285 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: land and tribal governance and autonomy or Tino rangatira tanga. 286 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: In Article one of the English version, the Maori chiefs 287 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: are seating quote the rights and powers of sovereignty to 288 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: the Queen of England. But in the Maori translation, the 289 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: word sovereignty was translated to a word that's closer to governorship, 290 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: which is a much less encompassing concept than sovereignty. There 291 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: was no exact translation for the word sovereignty in the 292 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: Maori language. The English version of the article of Article 293 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: two grants the Maori quote the full, exclusive and undisturbed 294 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: possession of their lands and estates forest fisheries and other properties, 295 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: but the Maori translation UH used a phrase that meant 296 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: quote the full essence of chieftainship, again suggesting that the 297 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: Maori were more or less getting full control over their 298 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: own affairs. The translation of forest, fisheries and other properties 299 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: is problematic too, since it was translated into a Maori 300 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 1: word that more closely means treasures. Yeah. There's been a 301 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: lot of UH discussions about what is included in treasures. 302 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: Is like, is the Maori language a treasure. Yeah, that's 303 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: a pretty culture that treasure. Yeah, that's a word of 304 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: nebulous meaning it's very nebulous, and so with huge differences, 305 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 1: like huge meaningful differences in the overwhelming bulk of this treaty. 306 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: The debate about what the treaty was really supposed to 307 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: mean and about what the Maori believed that they were 308 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: signing started almost immediately. And on top of that, there 309 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: is significant speculation about how exactly those discrepancies between the 310 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: two texts came to be. There. Was it a simple error, 311 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: you know, due to this sort of rush translation that 312 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: had to happen, or was it actually a more orchestrated 313 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: effort to slant the text uh in an effort to 314 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: make it more palatable to the Maori? And there is 315 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: really no clear documentation, although there's loads of speculation. There's 316 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: also a big subject of speculation around how much the 317 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: British signatories were even aware that these discrepancies existed. There 318 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: had been lengthy meetings and discussions about the treaty and 319 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: the text, and the williams Is were, as we said before, 320 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: familiar with the Maori language. Um, but you know, they 321 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of time to put this all together. 322 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: So you know, at this point in history, it's kind 323 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: of unclear exactly how much both sides knew about the 324 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: differences between what one was signing and what the other 325 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: was signing. But regardless of the differences, with this treaty 326 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: in place, New Zealand became a British colony, at first 327 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: as part of news South Wales and later that same 328 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: year as its own colony. So, because this was the 329 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: document that established New Zealand as a nation, to try 330 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: to recap everything that happened as a result of the 331 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: Treaty of Whitangy would basically require summing up basically the 332 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: entire history of New Zealand from the time that it 333 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: was signed, so so extremely briefly summarized. With the door 334 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: now opened to settling from Britain, a lot of settlers 335 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: from England, Ireland and Scotland started making their way to 336 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: New Zealand, with thousands of people arriving over the next decade. 337 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: Within a few years, Hona Heck had withdrawn his support 338 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: for the treaty. He was feeling disillusioned that it was 339 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: not in fact as beneficial for the Maori as he 340 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: had believed it was going to be. As an act 341 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: of protest, he had the flagpole at a British settlement 342 00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: repeatedly cut down. In the eighteen fifties, the European settlers 343 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: in New Zealand established their own government, and in eighteen 344 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: fifty three the first Parliament convened in New Zealand. But 345 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: at that point the Maori were completely excluded from holding 346 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: seats are from voting, following a pretty British tradition. Um 347 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: landownership was a requirement for both of these and most 348 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: property ownership among the Maori at that point was communal 349 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: instead of individual, so it took a while for that 350 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: to shift, so that was more compatible um with the 351 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: Maori worldview to allow the Maori to participate in the government. 352 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: Uh In eighteen sixty seven, Maori men gained the right 353 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: to vote in the Maori people actually gained four seats, 354 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: and that was intended to be a temporary move. Today, however, 355 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: the Maori continue to have seats in Parliament and can 356 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: choose to vote among the general or the Maori electorate. 357 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: The number of Maori seats in Parliament varies depending on 358 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: how many choose to vote in the Maori electorate. I 359 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: think right now there are seven based on that number 360 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: UM and there's a lot of bait about whether having 361 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: specifically Maori seats are whether that's a good thing. Or 362 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: a bad thing. There's debate on both sides, UM and 363 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: I can see both sides of that argument. There are 364 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: people who feel like maybe the Maori would have more 365 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: representation if they UH did not have these pre arranged seats, 366 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: or people who feel like having these seats at all 367 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: is racist in some way. Like there's a lot of 368 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: ongoing discussion about that. UH. In nineteen seventy five, the 369 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: White Tangy Tribunal was established, and this investigates claims by 370 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: Maori on breaches of the Treaty. For the first ten 371 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: years of its existence, this tribunal only investigated issues that 372 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: happened since it was established. However, in nine five its 373 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: scope was expanded to include everything that has happened since 374 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: the treaty was signed in eighteen forty and only Maori 375 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: can make claims and these are against either the Crown 376 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: or against legislation. They can be contemporary or historical. There's 377 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: also a special Land Court to deal specifically with Maori land. 378 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: So today, New Zealand has grown into a parliamentary democracy 379 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: with three official languages, English, Maori and sign Language. The 380 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: House of Representatives, which is a body of elected officials, 381 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: makes the laws it's also simultaneously a constitutional monarchy, with 382 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: the reigning Sovereign of Great Britain being the Sovereign of 383 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: New Zealand as well. So as we are recording this, 384 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: Queen Elizabeth two is the Queen of the United Kingdom 385 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: as well as being Queen of New Zealand. So in 386 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: this whole arrangement that's a separate thing. New Zealand is 387 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: not just part of the United Kingdom. The Queen's involvement 388 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: in the government is also mostly symbolic. She's represented by 389 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: the Governor General, but a Prime Minister handles the day 390 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: to day running of the government. Um. I know most 391 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: of our listeners are from the United States, and this 392 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: sounds like very complicated system of government, considering uh what 393 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: what a lot of our listeners used to Yeah, it's 394 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: a lot of layers of different branches of government sort 395 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: of all theoretically playing nice together to make it even 396 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: a little bit more complex. The name New Zealand does 397 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: not even come from the British. It comes from the Dutch. 398 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: So when the Dutch cited it, they named it after 399 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: the Netherlands province of Zealand because at that point Australia 400 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: was called New Holland, which you know is another part 401 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: of Netherlands, and the treaty itself was actually almost lost 402 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: or destroyed a number of times over the years, including 403 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: by fire and by efforts to preserve the document that 404 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 1: we're actually damaging. Uh. Now, these documents are in the 405 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: Constitution Room at the Archives of New Zealand in Wellington. 406 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: I like this story because it does represent such a 407 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: big step forward in relationships between colonial governments and indigenous peoples, 408 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: but at the same time, like it's not perfect and 409 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: there's still colonialism happening in this whole situation san so 410 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: like I've really have two minds about it. But without 411 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: this treaty, like when you uh look at documents about 412 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: New Zealand or if you ever visit New Zealand, like 413 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: you see, it's sort of a multicultural place in a 414 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: lot of ways at this time, and I don't think 415 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: that would exist without this treaty having been created and signed. 416 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: And this story is also a sort of a nice 417 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: snapshot of how issues of government can become extremely complex. 418 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: But you know, based on one thing like that one 419 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: translation led to a great deal of discussion and all 420 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: of these sort of bizarre layers of government that happened 421 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: as a consequence. Yeah. So when this when the White 422 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: Tangy Tribunal looks at cases where people have filed a 423 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: grievance against the government or against the law, it's sort 424 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: of looking at okay, what was the spirit of the 425 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: treaty supposed to be in this case and was the 426 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 1: spirit of the treaty followed um. I tried to find 427 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: some data about how many cases the tribunal has heard UM, 428 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: and I was not able to find that before we recorded. 429 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: So if someone knows and you send us, we will 430 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: probably read it on a future listener mail. Do you 431 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: have some listener mail now? I do. So. We have 432 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: gotten so much male about our recent episode about the 433 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: Spanish flu pandemic UM. A lot of it has been 434 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: from people who are sharing personal stories about grandparents and 435 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: other relatives who died during the flu or her who 436 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: survived the flu. UM. This one is from Abbey Babby says, Hey, ladies, 437 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: I'm a grad student in history and I'm writing my 438 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: thesis on a pandemic flu. I loved the Spanish flu episode, 439 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to add a bit of knowledge 440 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: I have collected about flu. I'm studying the eighteen eighty 441 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: nine to eighteen ninety four Russian flu, the pandemic that 442 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: immediately preceded the Spanish flu. It has some shocking similarities, 443 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: a similar death curve, although it was less dramatic, it 444 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: was very virulent to the extent that it shut down 445 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: and impacted services, telegraph operators, stores, postal workers, and policemen, 446 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: and the panic the pandemic caused. For context, I'm studying 447 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: this pandemic's effect on the British medical community. I don't 448 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: have the numbers in front of me, but it affected 449 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: millions of people. Newspapers tracked the flues progress across Europe 450 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: and led the Young Public Health Board in the UK 451 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 1: to tract in what was Victorian real time, the disease 452 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: across Europe and with the country and within the country 453 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: people freaked out. It was luckily a mild flu, but 454 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: touched many people's lives in many ways. It was a 455 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: milder Spanish flu, although it is unlikely that the two 456 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: virus strains are related. During this pandemic, the Bacillus was identified, 457 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,199 Speaker 1: and bacterial pneumonia and bronchitis are linked to influenza. This 458 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: influenza was also associated with depression to those who survived. 459 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: Doctors noticed an uptick in the rate of suicide of 460 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: influenza survivors, although this may also have some cultural factors. 461 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: My thesis advice there is an epidemiologist and don't worry. Ironically, 462 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: the more flu strains you get, the better prepared for 463 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: a major pandemic your body is. Kind of that's simplistic, 464 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: but a major pandemic, rather than an annual epidemic cold 465 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: and flu season generally results from the appearance of a 466 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: new strain, and before two thousand and nine would result 467 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: in the new strain of placing the old strain, so 468 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: the new strain doesn't have immuno markers to save people. 469 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: This has changed recently with the newer vaccine practices and technology. 470 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: One theory for why older generations a better survived large 471 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: scale dramatic pandemics is that they have more exposures to 472 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: the older viruses that were replaced. So when the new 473 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: virus A is replacing old virus B in a pandemic, 474 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: those exposed to even older virus C may have better 475 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: ability to to survive virus A. You should still get 476 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: a flu shots and this will help your immune system 477 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: even more. But the more strains you're exposed to, your 478 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: body is better prepared for taking an entirely new strain. 479 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: The She goes on to talk a little bit more 480 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 1: about vaccination technology and how the flu is very scary, 481 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: but you're probably going to survive. So um, thank you 482 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: very much, Abby. Yes, I like how many people have 483 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: written to reassure us that I will not die of flu. Yeah. 484 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: I also like, I genuinely appreciate it. I'm not being 485 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: facetious when I say that. I also like how many 486 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: people have written to us about Plague Incorporated, which I 487 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: talked about um previously, which that has scenarios now um, 488 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: And there is a swine flue scenario that is based 489 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: on being having things in common with the Spanish blue epidemic, 490 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: and I have not played that one yet. I've pretty 491 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: much immediately played Black Death and Small Marx like you do. 492 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: You know, Hey, so if you would like to write us, 493 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: you can totally do that thing. Uh. And our email 494 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: is a little bit different. It's all still the same. 495 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: It comes to us just the same as it always has. 496 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: But the email now is history podcast at how stuff 497 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: Works dot com. You can connect with us on Facebook 498 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: at Facebook dot com, splash history class stuff on Twitter, 499 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: at mist in history, at missed in history dot tumbler 500 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: dot com, and at pinterest dot com slash missed in 501 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: history and we hope you do. 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