WEBVTT - SCOTUS Allows Abortion Pill & All Those NYC Trials 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:10.560 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio Today. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:15.080 The Supreme Court unanimously preserved access to the abortion pill 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.320 that was used in nearly two thirds of all abortions 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.600 in the country last year. In the court's first abortion 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:26.760 decision since conservative justices overturned Roe v. Wade two years ago. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.920 The justices reversed a federal appeals Court ruling that would 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.120 have barred mail order prescriptions from mifipristone across the country. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.879 The ruling was based on a procedural issue called standing finding. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.879 The challengers in the case, anti abortion doctors and medical groups, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.280 failed to show they were injured by the FDA's approval 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.400 of the medication. It was the issue we heard voiced 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.280 by justices across the ideological spectrum during oral arguments, from 0:00:55.320 --> 0:01:00.000 liberal Katanji Brown Jackson to conservative Brett Kavanaugh, who wrote 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.800 Today's who wrote today's opinion. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.560 I mean, it makes perfect sense for the individual doctors 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.920 to seek an exemption, but as I understand it, they 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.840 already have that, and so what they're asking for here 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.679 is that in order to prevent them from possibly ever 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.720 having to do these kinds of procedures, everyone else should 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.240 be prevented from getting access to this medication. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.400 Just to confirm understanding issue. 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.280 Under federal law, no doctors can be. 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:38.720 Forced against their consciences to perform or assist in an abortion. 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:39.360 Correct. 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.520 But the court didn't even address the FDA's decision to 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:47.960 loosen the restrictions on MiFi pristone. So this decision doesn't 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:51.360 mean that the drug is safe from future legal attacks. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.720 Joining me is an expert in reproductive healthcare rights. Mary Ziegler, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.840 a professor at UC Davis Law School. Mary, did this decision, 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:04.520 this unanimous decision come as any surprise after the oral arguments. 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:06.480 I mean, it was a little bit of a surprise 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.919 that it was unanimous, But I think after oral argument 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.600 it was pretty clear that the plaineiffs were in trouble 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.680 here on standing grounds, and their standing arguments were really weak, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.040 you know, from the outset. So in that sense, it 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:17.800 wasn't a surprise. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.640 And tell us how the court came to its decision 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.200 on standing. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.960 Well, the court had three different grounds for deciding the 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.200 planeiffs didn't have standing. The planeiffs argued that they had 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.520 standing because they could face conscience based injuries if patients 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.920 had complications for with the Pristone and ended up in 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.480 the emergency room where they were practicing. They argued that 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.360 they would suffer economic harms potentially if forced to treat patients. 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.040 And finally, they argued that their group, their association, suffered 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.680 harms because it was forced to divert resources that could 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.880 have been used for other pro life or anti worsion 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:56.119 work to oppose Mithi Pristone, and the Supreme Court rejected 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.239 all three of those claims. On the conscience point, this 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.840 is said, essentially, there are lots of federal laws to 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.400 protect conscience, so there's no real threat of injury here. 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.720 On the claims about economic harm, the course of this 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.200 is just way, way too broad, almost to the point 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.600 of ridiculousness. They said. If this was true as a 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.000 theory of standing, firefighters could sue to object to relax 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.120 building codes, and teachers and border states could sue to 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.800 challenge immigration policies, this would be a Pandora's box. And finally, 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.600 on associational standing right the idea that the association was 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:35.640 diverting resources, the Court emphasized that this would be essentially 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:41.040 allowing organizations to manufacture standing by spending money to gather 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.520 information and advocate against an action. So all three of 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.600 those standing claims failed. But again they were specific to 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.320 these parties. So it doesn't mean that these claims will 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.360 necessarily go away forever, just that these plaintiffs were unable 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:57.000 to bring them. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.320 Yeah. In fact, on the last page of the paion, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.160 just as Kavanaugh wrote, quote, it is not clear that 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.480 no one else would have standing to challenge the FDA's 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.600 relaxed regulation of mifipristone, and the Texas judge below has 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:17.119 allowed the states of Idaho, Kansas, and Missouri to join 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.960 the case at the district court level to help press 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.719 the same claims against the FDA. So that's still pending. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.080 Yes, So there are these other plaintiffs in the district 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.120 court who had initially tried to intervene in the Supreme 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.560 Court proceedings and were turned away, but who are proceeding 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.040 through the lower courts arguing that they understanding that these 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.800 plaintiffs lacked. And it's worth emphasizing too, that isn't necessarily 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.839 the end of it either. There are some local counties 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.400 and cities and what's called the Sanctuary City for the 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.000 Unborn movement that have been mulling bringing suits on the 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.120 same basis and asserting they have standing. So I think 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.800 we're seeing already some plaintiffs in lower court trying to 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.240 say they can bring these claims, and they might be 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:01.880 the only ones, and. 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.360 The Supreme Court can almost get pushed to hear these cases. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.599 For example, in this case, you have the most conservative 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.120 circuit in the country, the Fifth Circuit, pushing the legal 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.000 envelope and finding that these plaintiffs have standing to sue, 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.840 and then the Supreme Court has to respond and. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:23.320 Push back exactly right. And it doesn't necessarily mean that 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.600 those plaintiffs will succeed either, right, I mean, they might 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.039 not have standing either. But I think all we know 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.400 after today is that the Supreme Court is kicking the 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.920 can down the road. They haven't resolved many of these 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.720 claims permanently, and. 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.800 The Court stop short way short of affirming the FDA's 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:44.159 decisions to expand access to mifipristone. I mean, they didn't 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.920 consider the merits at all in the opinion, right. 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.560 I mean, if anything, the Court seems sympathetic to the 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.839 idea that people have conscience based objections to abortion. The 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:56.679 Court seem to be sympathetic to those and the Court 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.000 didn't at all affirm the logic of the FDA's decision 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.880 making didn't say anything one way or another about the 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.320 plaintiff's theory that the Comstock Act operated as if the facto. 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:06.760 Ban on abortion. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.520 So we got really no insight, especially no insights that 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.080 would be reassuring to the Biden administration about what the 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:13.359 Court thinks about those things. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:19.039 Just as Kavanaugh wrote, the plaintiffs have sincere legal, moral, ideological, 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.839 and policy objections to elective abortion and to the FDA's 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:29.120 relaxed regulation of mifipristone. That language is a little troubling, 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:29.600 isn't it. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:31.960 I agree, I mean, and I think it signals that 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.119 we haven't seen the end of this by a long shot. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.880 And there's some irony in the fact that Kavanaugh wrote 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.719 a concurring opinion in the Dobbs case which overturned the 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.360 constitutional right to abortion, and he said, basically, the abortion 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.400 issue is now up to the states. We're done with it. 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.799 Yeah, I mean, I don't think anybody paying attention really 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.960 believed that. But it's ironic, of course, that the Court 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.960 has two abortion decisions in one term. I mean, this 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.400 isn't even the last we've heard from this particular term 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.520 on abortion, which is extraordinary. So this is not, you know, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.760 not even the end of what we're hearing from the 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.480 justices right now, much less, you know, for the longer term. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.600 Mary, Does this mean that women in every state can 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:19.200 get mifa pristone or is it still illegal in states 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:20.440 that have bands on abortion? 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.200 It's still illegal. This ruling doesn't change the status quo. 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.200 So if a state has prohibited mithrapristone, it's still prohibited 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.400 in the state. If a state has access to mifhra 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.720 pristone or provides that access, the drug is still available. 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.600 So it isn't underlining any state law one way or another. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.120 You mentioned the second abortion case that's yet to be 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.440 decided over Idaho's strict abortion ban. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:50.200 Tell us about that that case involves emergency access to abortion. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.560 The Biden administration has argued that a federal law called 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.880 the Emergency Medical Treatment in Labor Act Trump's state bans 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.320 when those bands wouldn't allow access to abortion for certain 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.120 medical emergencies that the federal law would require. Idaho, the 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.880 state of Oide administration took to court. Has responded that 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.880 the amtala does nothing of the sort, and that the 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.400 question is either left to the states, or even that 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:18.400 Imtala offers some protection for the unborn child as Idaho, 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.440 what's it pointing to language in the statue, So that 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:26.560 ruling remains to be seen and could have pretty important effects. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:29.680 After the oral arguments, and then if a priss Stone case, 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.040 it seemed pretty clear what the decision would be. Can 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.679 you glean anything from the oral arguments in the Idaho case? 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.640 I mean, it seemed as if the court was likely 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.280 to side with Idaho, although the oral argument was a 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.280 little bit all over the place, So it's not entirely 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.600 clear that that's going to be true. And if it 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.680 is true, it's not entirely clear on what basis they're 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.120 going to side with Idaho. So I think we're expecting 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.680 a win for Idaho, but on what basis or you know, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.000 how sweeping a win I think remains to be seen. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.640 And tell us a little about the lawyers for the 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.320 anti abortion doctors and medical groups here. They're from the 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:13.040 conservative Christian legal advocacy group Alliance Defending Freedom that's been 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.160 behind a lot of Supreme Court decisions, and so the alliance. 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.880 The plaintiffs here are probably less important than the attorneys 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:25.760 representing them. Who are the Alliance Defending Freedom. That's the 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:30.840 group that has really been dominating in some ways the 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:36.360 landscape of Supreme Court abortion litigation since the Supreme Court 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.880 overturned re Vwad. So this is part of a much 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.560 longer game for them. They have lots of other cases 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:47.920 and strategies in the pipeline, including challenges involving aborshi pills. 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.640 So we're going to see, I think, much more where 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:53.319 this came from from them. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:58.440 We've talked before about the fetal personhood movement, which is 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.520 an effort to give fetuses the same rights as a person, 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.600 including the right to life. But you mentioned the Sanctuary 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.960 City for the Unborn movement. What's that about. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.440 This movement has created ordinances in a variety of cities. 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.439 These were the model for Texas's SB eight, which, as 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.520 you may know, is the bounty bill that passed in Texas. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.240 It's now spreading ordinances based on the Comstock Act. It's 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:28.920 spreading ordinances designed to limit interstate travel for abortion. The 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:32.680 man behind it, Jonathan Mitchell, and his colleague Mark Lee Dixon, 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.079 have had a lot of influence on anti abortion strategy 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.320 as well. So I think they're also looking at a 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.199 potential way into helping with this kind of challenge. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:46.640 Anti abortion activists are using different kinds of strategies to 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.240 try to prevent abortions, and we see laws passed in 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:56.120 states that target abortion in different ways. What's the most concerning. 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.439 That's absolutely right, right, So there's very much a kind 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.440 of like throw it at the wall and see what sticks. 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.280 That's going on here. Many of the strategies you mentioned 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.560 jun involve abortion pills, so some of them involve making 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:09.800 it easier to survey and track who's using abortion pills, 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.480 in part because states where abortion is legal have been 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.840 passing shield laws, some of which allow physicians to mail 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.840 pills into banned states. So some states are looking for 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:26.800 tools to track and ultimately prosecute that usage. We're seeing 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.880 efforts again to limit travel often called abortion trafficking ordinances 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:38.040 that criminalize assisting people traveling for abortion. We've seen efforts 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:43.240 to even do strange things like label mithipristone a threat 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.359 to the environment and to the groundwater that are targeting 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.440 the Environmental Protection Agency. And that's just the tip of 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.920 the iceberg. Probably the most salient rely on the strategy 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:57.000 that Donald Trump will you know, win the twenty twenty 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.600 four election, and that his Justice Department will be able 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.240 to inform the Comstocks Act as a ban on abortion, 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.160 and that that would of course override not just state laws, 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.880 but even ballid initiatives that voters are deciding for themselves 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.720 when it comes to protecting abortion right. So there are 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.600 a lot of strategies in play here, and this case 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.000 is just a small piece of a much bigger puzzle. 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.360 Finally, Mary, some are breathing a sigh of relief because 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.600 the Supreme Court has allowed access to MiFi pristone. But 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.560 this doesn't mean that mif A pristone is safe from 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.400 legal attack at the Supreme Court and elsewhere. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.360 No, not at all. I mean, the Supreme Court is 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.320 just saying that these particular plaintiffs don't have standing. I 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.880 mean this case, I mean, these claims aren't even going away. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.800 That's the most basic point. But I mean it's certainly 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.280 not true that abortion is safe and that other attacks 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.880 on abortion pills or abortion aren't ongoing. 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.559 Thank you so much, Mary, I always appreciate your in 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:57.080 depth analysis in this area. That's Professor Mary Ziegler of 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.640 UC Davis Law School coming up next to the Justices 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.200 reveal the extra money they earned last year in addition 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.840 to their two hundred and seventy four thousand dollars salary. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.480 Guess who's on the top of the list getting a 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:14.280 nearly nine hundred thousand dollars book advance and what about 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.160 those four thousand dollars tickets to a Beyonce concert? And 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.680 the justice who, like a bad student in school, asks 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:26.280 for an extension. The justices will be issuing decisions again tomorrow. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.400 Some of the most controversial cases of the term are 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.520 still in front of them, those involving Donald Trump and 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.960 presidential immunity, guns, social media, homelessness, the wealth tax, and 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.360 the power of agencies to fight things like climate change. 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.400 Of the sixty one cases the Court heard this term, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.160 twenty six decisions are still outstanding, but the justices do 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.520 have behind them the revelations about their finances. While all 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.600 the justices except Samuel Leto who got the extension he 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:02.160 requests every year for a reason only he knows, and surprise, 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.360 it was the newest Justice, Katanji Brown Jackson, who topped 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.959 the list with an eight hundred and ninety three thousand 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:12.440 dollars advance for her yet to be published memoir, followed 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.439 by Justice Brett Kavanaugh Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.040 Store has looked at all the numbers. Clarence Thomas suddenly 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.480 remembered about some luxury trips back in twenty nineteen. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.360 These are the trips that he took with Harlan Crowe 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.080 that were the subject of the first big story about 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.720 this subject about a year ago from Republica, including this 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.080 cruise that he took on Harlan Crow's yacht in Indonesia. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.240 Now Justice Thomas's disclosure this is a trip in twenty nineteen, 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.800 and his new disclosure. He mentioned at the end that 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:49.280 in his original twenty nineteen report he had inadvertently admitted 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.080 a couple items, and he disclosed not the cruise itself, 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.840 but he disclosed the food and lodging he got for 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.760 one night in a hotel in Bali. He also disclosed 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.840 food and lodging in California and a separate trip at 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.360 this retreat known as the Bohemian Grove, So he didn't 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.000 disclose everything about it, but it was at least an 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.400 acknowledgement that these trips seem to have happened. 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.680 But he may now have more trips to account for. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.840 According to documents released by Senate Democrats just today, Thomas 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.440 failed to disclose at least three more private jet trips 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:29.400 across the US paid for by GOP, megadnor Harlan Crowe. 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.000 In any event, these trips represent an enormous amount of money. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.960 Yeah, an enormous amount. There's a watchdog group known as 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.280 Six to the Court that did some very rough calculations 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.080 and came to the conclusion that Justice Thomas received more 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.520 than four million dollars overalling gifts since nineteen ninety one, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:47.560 including these trips. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.080 The most interesting gift to me was the nearly four 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:56.040 thousand dollars in Beyonce tickets that Justice Jackson got and 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.400 she topped the list. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:59.680 Yeah, she did top the list. That was a bit 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.880 of an eye three seven hundred and twelve dollars for 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:04.200 four concert times. 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.000 I know, I spend that every time I go to 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:06.560 a concert. 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.840 Yeah, exactly. The author reported two gifts of artwork for 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.560 her chambers at twelve five hundred dollars. Yeah, that was 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.200 certainly the one that captured a lot of attention. You know, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.640 no suggestion she did anything wrong there, but she made 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.600 a decision that this is the kind of gift she's 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:27.920 comfortable accepting and then disclosing, and you know, it's not 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:31.000 something that other justices necessarily do. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.440 Thomas also disclosed receiving photo albums worth two thousand dollars. 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:38.080 It just seems to me like it's a bad look 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:43.160 for justices to be accepting these kinds of gifts. Is 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:48.040 there any rule or ethical consideration that they have to 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.040 make or are they just allowed to take anything they want? 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:53.960 Well, you know, they do have to disclose them. That's 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.840 sort of the one rule about that. And if you know, 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.560 Beyonce were involved in a Supreme Court case, you would 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.680 expect Jackson would probably recuse. But no, that's that is 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.639 very much the issue that people are talking about, and 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.120 you know, is it a bad look to be doing 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.720 any of this stuff? And the other element I would 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.080 toss into the mix is that, you know, the Justice 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.159 is collectively collected about a million and a half in 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.560 book income last year, including a big chunk of that 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.960 was Justice Jackson for a book that has yet to 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.720 be published. And we just learned the last few days 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.280 that Justice Kavanaugh's coming out with a book and he 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.199 reported six digits in income from that book. So you know, 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.639 they are picking up extra income in ways that you 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.920 know certainly are eye opening and do sort of raise 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.560 questions about, you know, whether that is the kind of, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.919 as you put it, look we want from a Supreme 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:45.560 Court justice. 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.280 I mean, a lot of judges give up lucrative private 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:55.159 practices to become a judge to do public service. And 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.679 here you have the majority of justice is on the 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.680 highest court in the land, make book deals, etc. And 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.639 making the kind of money that separates them from the 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.320 vast majority of Americans. It may not be unethical, but 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.480 it just strikes me as what's wrong with this picture? 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.240 But I noticed that Justice Kagan never seems to be 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:21.879 involved with any of these extra income things, books or 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.560 anything else. Was there anything on her financial revelations that 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:26.960 was noteworthy? 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.399 Now she's really one of the ones who has not 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.760 written a book, is not accepting unusual gifts, and as 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:40.560 largely steered clear of any of these ethical issues. She is, 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.920 I think fair to say, a good deal more more 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.280 cautious and careful. Along with the Chief Justice. He's the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.040 other one I would sort of put in that next 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:52.360 as people who are very careful about what they accept 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.560 in the appearance they give off when they make appearances 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.960 and the like, they make different decisions, And of course 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.199 one of the issues here is that all these decisions 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.360 are up to individual justices. Justice Kagan believes that justice 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.320 should operate a certain way, and she's allowed to do that, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.520 and Justice Thomas believes something very different, and there aren't 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.160 really any any constraints on him. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.520 There was an issue about the Chief Justice's wife, right, 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.000 she's a legal recruiter. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:26.280 Yeah, she left her law practice to become a legal recruiter, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:31.080 and there have been there have been some stories about 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.720 her work there. But I think when you talk to 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:40.359 judicial ethics experts, that's one where in general they tend 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.440 to say, you know, first of all, a spouse does 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.840 have a right to his or her career, and that 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.280 is so separate from the work that the Chief Justice does. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:56.080 The idea that you know, somehow it might influence his 0:19:56.280 --> 0:20:00.760 decision making that she is involved in in, you know, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:04.480 cooking up a lawyer and a law firm, that that's 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:09.440 not high on the list of ethical issues we should 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:10.040 be worried about. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.520 And so Justice Alito received a ninety day extension to 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.960 file his report and he's done that before. I mean, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.640 it seems odd since he's filed his taxes. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.679 Yeah, he does it every year. We never get a 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.160 real explanation for it. No other justice, no other active 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.960 justice does it. As a matter of course. Last year 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.240 Justice Thomas got an extension, but that had more of 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:37.199 an explanation to it because he was dealing with a 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.160 lot of these new revelations and some changing guidance about 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.600 how to file reports, So that made a little more 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.480 sense than Justice Thomas did file his report on time 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.200 this year. Yeah, I don't have an explanation for why 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.639 he does that. We will certainly look at his filing 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.000 when it comes in, but it. 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.360 Puts more emphasis on it if you're the only one, 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.160 you know at a certain time coming out. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:59.919 With it, unless you do it at a time when 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:02.680 all the people who be covering about it are on vacation. 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:04.479 It's the middle of the summer. 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:07.880 You make a great point, Greg, You know your Supreme 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.080 Court justices very well. Thanks so much. That's Bloomberg New 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:17.159 Supreme Court reporter Greg store And yesterday, Senate Republicans successfully 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.160 blocked a bill that would have required the Supreme Court 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.360 to adopt a code of conduct and would have created 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.719 a mechanism to enforce it. Senate Judiciary Chair Dick Durbin 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:31.480 criticized Chief Justice John Roberts on the Senate floor for 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.440 not doing enough to enforce ethical standards on the Supreme Court. 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.000 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, So where 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.240 can you go in Manhattan if you want to see 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:47.960 some famous politicians, billionaire businessmen, top lawyers, and lots of journalists. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.520 We'll tell you. Coming up next, I'm June Grosso and 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:55.520 you're listening to Bloomberg. So where can you go in 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:59.720 Manhattan if you want to see some famous politicians, billionaire 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:04.320 bill businessmen, and top lawyers. Go downtown to Lower Manhattan 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:08.120 where courthouses abound. And we're in the last few weeks 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:12.399 like a planetary alignment of the justice system. Politicians and 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.840 Wall Street figures have been crossing paths at simultaneous trials 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:22.439 of former President Donald Trump, Senator Bob Menendez, Christian billionaire 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:28.159 Bill Wong, and fugitive Chinese tycoon Guo Wangue. Joining me 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.240 is someone who has experienced this firsthand. Bloomberg Legal reporter 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:38.560 Ava Benny Morrison. How big is the area downtown where 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.840 the Federal Courthouse and the Manhattan State courthouses sit it's. 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:47.880 Quite a dense little area down there. You have the 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:52.440 Federal Courthouse, which is on Tel Street, and then across 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.800 the road from that you have the New York State 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.600 Supreme Courthouse. And then there are a couple of other 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.679 federal courthouses state courthouses in the streets around that, so 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.080 it's all very walkabules and they're all very close to 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:04.480 each other. 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.160 Tell us about the four trials that until last week 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.960 we're going on, and what you called a planetary alignment 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:14.240 of the justice system. 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.639 Yes, it certainly has been very busy down there. In 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:21.440 the state courthouse New York State Supreme we had former 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.080