1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 3: I mean legitimate. 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 4: He says. He's always voted for Democrats, but this year 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 4: it will be different. 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: He'll vote Republican. 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 4: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 4: on him. 12 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 5: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 13 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 6: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: Welcome Delon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 3: October eighth. I'm your host, David Papadopolis. The moment we've 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 3: been waiting for is almost he here, the grand unveiling 17 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 3: of Elon's Robotaxi, the self driving droid card that is 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 3: supposed to push Tesla far into the future and make it, 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 3: according to Elon, a multi trillion dollar company. Now, a 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: launch like this would normally dominate the show, perhaps it'd 21 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 3: be the only thing we talk about. But over the weekend, 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 3: Elon jumped and jumped and jumped onto stage with Donald 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 3: Trump lashing himself ever more tightly to the Trump train 24 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 3: as the election approaches, and so we just gotta get 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: into that. And to help us, we're going to bring 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: in a special guest, Jacob Silverman, an independent journalist who 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 3: covers the tech industry. But we will start with that 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: Robotaxi launch to talk about what we can expect from 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 3: the big event Thursday night. We have our regulars, Dana 30 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: Hall and Max Chafkin. 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: Hey there, Hey, hey, good to be here. 32 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 3: Hi David, and we also are beaming in from London 33 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: our Global Autos editor, a very busy man, Craig Trudell. Craig, 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: how you doing Robotaxi week? Happyt rowboat Taxi week to you, sir? Okay, So, Craig, 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: we are just a couple of days away. I can 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: sense the excitement in your voice. By the way, all 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 3: the way across the pond, I can just feel it. 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 3: No jumping around though in the studio over there, our 39 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: studio can't take that. What do we know? Remind us, 40 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: what do we know so far about this robotaxi the 41 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: cyber cab as Elon calls it, and what's he been 42 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: promising and what are the general expectations for it? 43 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 6: Well? I think about you know, this time of year, 44 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 6: everyone talks about you know, debates and playing the quote 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 6: unquote expectations game, right where you try to you know, 46 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 6: under promise and then over deliver. 47 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 5: Right. 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 6: I think Governor Walls his people were talking about he's 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 6: not such a great debater, He's very nervous. Elon isn't 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 6: playing that game. He is posting on x about this 51 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 6: being you know, one for the history books and agreeing 52 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 6: with one of his super fans that you know, this 53 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 6: is going to be the most significant moment for Tesla 54 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 6: since the unveiling of the Model three that was a 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 6: super important moment in the history of Tesla's So you know, 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 6: he is is you know, setting expectations awfully high here. 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 3: He's in full, full on hype mode. 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 6: He's in hype mode, he's in in salesmanship mode. And 59 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 6: you know, honestly, you guys have been talking about on 60 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 6: the podcast about the idea that it's been quite effective, right, 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 6: It's been driving the stock price up for months now, 62 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 6: and so you know, the the expectations going into this event, 63 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 6: I would say are hugely elevated. There are some analysts 64 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 6: maybe who are starting to come out with notes to 65 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 6: kind of you know, maybe maybe temper things a bit 66 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 6: so that they can sort of, you know, declare what 67 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 6: a what a surprise everything was. But I think you know, 68 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 6: you look at what Elon has been saying and hosting. 69 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 6: It's been anything but you know, lowering expectations. 70 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: Now, Dana remind us he's been promising the Robotaxi the 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: cyber Cap. I don't know, by the way, when he 72 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 3: changed from Robotaxi to cybercap, but he's been promising it 73 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: for a long time. When we're according to his initial 74 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: predictions way back when where we going to get the 75 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 3: cyber cap. 76 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: I mean, he made a big pitch to Wall Street 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: investors that twenty twenty was going to be the year 78 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: of the Robotaxi. Here it is, you know, late twenty 79 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: twenty four, and we're gonna have this unveiling Thursday night. 80 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: But I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands 81 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: that it's not just the Romotaxi event. People, it's called 82 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: we robot And so I predict that we're going to 83 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: see a Robotaxi, we're going to hear about the fleet, 84 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: We're going to see optimists do something like they are. 85 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: This is like sort of beyond just the robotaxi. They're 86 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: they're really pitching this is like the big event that's 87 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: gonna kind of explain to, you know, the plebes, why 88 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: Tesla has this huge advantage. And there it's there. They're 89 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: calling the event our official unveiling of the future of autonomy. 90 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: So it goes beyond just this robotaxi. It's like it's 91 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: much it's much bigger in their minds. 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: So they're going to flex max all their technological prowess, 93 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: the technical prowess that the market says makes the company 94 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 3: infinitely more valuable than it's all old school peers. And 95 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: I guess we'll see. 96 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: Can you unveil the future? 97 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: I don't think you can. 98 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: And I think that that language, you know right there, 99 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: kind of hints at one of the problems. This is 100 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: not a product launch because there is no product, like 101 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: they can say that they are launching a cyber cab. 102 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: But there's a reason this event is being held on 103 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 2: a Hollywood sound stage, and I'm sure it's going to 104 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: be very impressive. I'm sure we're going to see something 105 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: that looks very much like a taxi driving around streets 106 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 2: that look very much like streets, but of course you 107 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: can't just do this in the real world because in 108 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: the real world it is not legal. And leave aside 109 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 2: the questions about whether Tesla can come anywhere to achieving 110 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: this on it from a technological basis, which I think 111 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: are big questions. You know, we tend to like think 112 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: about the really successful Elon Musk launches, the Model three launch. 113 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: Dana brought up the cyber truck launch also, I think 114 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: a very successful launch, notwithstanding. 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 3: The broken glass. 116 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: But of course there have been times when things have disappointed, 117 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: and in particular around autonomy. 118 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, now, Max, let me through for a second, because 119 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: we have curated over the years some Musk highlights from 120 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: some of these events. Let's listen to them now. 121 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 5: The car can do almost anything. You can pick your 122 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 5: favorite color, and it looks like a beautiful sculpture on 123 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 5: the wall. We expect to have the first operating robotaxis 124 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 5: next year. The goal is to make have electric you know, 125 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 5: solar roofs that look better than normal roof The new 126 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 5: Tesla Roadster will be the fastest car production car ever 127 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 5: made period. 128 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: Man. Listen to that stuff makes me want to jump 129 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: around here now. But Craig, so you've gone back and 130 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 3: look through. 131 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: Uh. 132 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I think you were there for 133 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 3: many of them, for many of these events, and you 134 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: recall some of the greatest hits and the biggest crash 135 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: and burns. Like, what do you typically get concretely out 136 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: of these events and how does the market tend to 137 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: react to them? 138 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 6: I mean, musk. You can say what you will about 139 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 6: his political leanings of late or his you know, sense 140 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 6: of humor. Sometime it can be you know, everyone's cup 141 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 6: of tea. But he is a showman. I think you 142 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 6: guys have talked about this on the podcast in the past. 143 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 6: Well boast about, you know, being able to deliver a 144 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 6: car in you know, rapid fashion did so with the 145 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 6: Model X and twenty twelve that that launched a couple 146 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 6: of years late, the Model three handover in twenty seventeen. 147 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 6: I just remember him talking about, you know, warning of production. Hell, 148 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 6: I guess he was. He was right there. But I 149 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 6: think he both is able to hype up the product 150 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 6: that he is springing to market and also, you know, 151 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 6: really get people excited about what's coming. 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: Right. 153 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 6: I think back to twenty seventeen, when you know, toward 154 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 6: the end of the year they were showing the Semi 155 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 6: and surprise everybody by showing the next generation roadster that 156 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 6: was their first vehicle ever. He said on stage, you know, 157 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 6: people have asked us for a long time, when are 158 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 6: you going to make a new roadster. We are making 159 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 6: it now. He's still not making that roadster. He's not 160 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 6: even really making that Semi either, that that is in 161 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 6: pilot production. So he will make a lot of big pronouncements, 162 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 6: big statements, big predictions. I mentioned his sense of humor. 163 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 6: I do want to give him credit that he has 164 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 6: said that Tesla specializes in making the impossible merely late. 165 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 6: I think that's a pretty good line. 166 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: I just want to note that, like you know, I mean, 167 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: I think for the stock, there's a question of if 168 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: do people like sell on the news because the news 169 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: could be like less hypey than when then what people 170 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: are anticipating. But like if you actually go to the event, 171 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: people are super into it. Like these diehard fans, they 172 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: are flying in from all over the country. They're begging 173 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: for plus ones. Like to be clear, Tesla's inviting Wall 174 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: Street analysts, big investors, and they're like chosen influencers plus 175 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: some randos to like go to this thing. So all 176 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: the influencers who are part of the like Musk single 177 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: phantic echo chamber are all going to be there and 178 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: to be in the room with this guy who some 179 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: people think is like the i'mas Edison of our time, 180 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: like it is, it is enthralling for people. They are like, 181 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: oh my god, Like I got to see Elon Musk 182 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: in person, and that's like what they live for. 183 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 4: And it's a little bit. 184 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: Like a tent revival situation where just being in the 185 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: same room with him and hearing him and being able 186 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: to scream his name, it's like very religious almost, And 187 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: I don't think you can sort of negate that. Like 188 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: when the Model three was unveiled, Like I was there 189 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: when he did that along with you know, like Mary Nichols, 190 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: the head of the California Air Resources Board, and like 191 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: there was electricity in the room because people really felt 192 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: like you were seeing the needle move. And I can 193 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: imagine that they will there will be a similar vibe, 194 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, at this AI event, except Elon. I don't 195 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: get the sense that Elon is like preparing for his 196 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, preparing for his remarks that much. I mean, 197 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: he's like on the campaign trail with Donald Trump, Right, so, 198 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: like in terms of showmanship, like, I don't think he's 199 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: like practice his pattern, Like I don't think the sense 200 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: that he's like hunkered down doing like product launch prep 201 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: way that most CEOs do. And so if he just 202 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: sort of like rolls in late and is off the 203 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: cuff and like shambles around and makes some jokes about 204 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: how the future is autonomy, like I don't. I don't 205 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: think Wall Street's gonna be super keen on that. 206 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: One thing we haven't mentioned yet is that this event 207 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 2: is at seven pm Pacific time, so that's ten pm 208 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: Eastern time. 209 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 3: This is a late event, and that. 210 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: This is how Elon Musk likes it, right, he likes 211 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: these things as Danna and Craig are hinting as to 212 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: feel like parties. 213 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 3: But it isn't. 214 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: It's unlikely to me that this is going to have 215 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: a big media impact even no matter what he does, 216 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: because of how they've decided to kind of do the 217 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: theater of it. And I've been sitting here trying to 218 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 2: think about, well, what could Elon announce that would be perceived? 219 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 3: What does a positive what does success at the event 220 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 3: look like? 221 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: So I think, okay, success would look like awesome design. 222 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: Does does does this thing somehow just blow you away? 223 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: That would be one thing Number two, and this is 224 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: more important, some sort of indication that they have a 225 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: deal in place with some municipality anywhere in the world 226 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: to deploy this thing in any kind of time front 227 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: frame that is like soon ish, you know, Like but 228 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 2: if we end this with just like here's a cool product, 229 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: but it doesn't there's no plan for deployment, I think 230 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: the reaction is going to be poor because I think 231 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: Elon has done so much to make it seem like 232 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 2: this is happening like right now that if the truth 233 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: is it's happening three four, five, six years from now, 234 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 2: that's going to be processed as a big disappointment. 235 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: Craig first, and then Dana the same question to you, 236 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: What does success look like for you? 237 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 6: Craig, Yeah, I mean I would agree with Max. I 238 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 6: think hard and fast plans for deployment to me is 239 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 6: a must. And I think that's where this gets really tricky, 240 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 6: right because we've heard him literally year after year say 241 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 6: that you know, his robotaxis are just around the corner, 242 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 6: and even you know, as Dani alluded to earlier, back 243 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 6: in twenty nineteen, he was telling everybody that their Tesla, 244 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 6: the Tesla that you know was in their driveway, that 245 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 6: they had already bought, was on the verge of being 246 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 6: a Robotaxi. We know that there is no Tesla robotaxi 247 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 6: on the road. What is going to be shown in 248 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 6: La Thursday night is going to be, you know, prototypes. 249 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 6: I do think that, you know, Dana, you know, scooped 250 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 6: a few months back that you know, this event after 251 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 6: all got delayed because he wanted to make a design change. 252 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 6: I think that speaks to this idea that this thing 253 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 6: is not baked, and you know, I think the question 254 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 6: will be, does this guy end up having any credibility 255 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 6: with Wall Street when you know, in twenty nineteen, as 256 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 6: Dana alluded to, he said, you know, we expect to 257 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 6: have the first operating robotaxis next year, and then has 258 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 6: proceeded to predict that over and over again at nauseum. 259 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: I don't know if he's got credibility with Wall Street 260 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 3: or Wall Street analysts per se, but clearly, judging from 261 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 3: the reaction in the stock market of the last few 262 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 3: months when he made his grand pivot to the Robotaxi. 263 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 5: I e. 264 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 3: The stock has popped fifty percent. I guess he seems 265 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: to have still that credit in the bank with the 266 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 3: broader investor base out there, Dana, what does success looklick 267 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 3: for you? 268 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: Well, he has to give people rides. I mean, he 269 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: can't just like stand on the stage and like pull 270 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: the sheet off of this you know, two seat robotaxi 271 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: like people. He actually has to give investors like rides. 272 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: They have to be able to and I think they're 273 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: gonna have to show like the app, the Tesla app, 274 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: and people are gonna have to like experience hailing it 275 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: and then like riding around in it. I mean that said, 276 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: you know, they are doing this on this kind of 277 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: closed course, and there's a lot of questions about whether 278 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: they pre mapped the route or whatever. 279 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: But you have to have. 280 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: People actually experience it. Because Tesla's try to sort of 281 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: do two things at once. They have sold current tesl 282 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: owners on the idea that eventually, with the flip of 283 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: a switch, your car will be self driving. And then 284 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: simultaneously they are now unveiling dedicated, purpose built robotaxi that 285 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: Tesla's gonna run itself. And you know, the whole idea 286 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: is that it's gonna be this combination of Uber and Airbnb, 287 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: where like you can drive your car yourself, or like 288 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: if you're on vacation or asleep, you can like lend 289 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: your car to this Tesla fleet and it'll make money 290 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: for you when you're not around. And so they kind 291 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: of have to differentiate and explain to people how this 292 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: is actually gonna work. But I think that it's not 293 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: a success unless, like the big investors actually get to 294 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: ride in this thing. 295 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: Just to note a caution, getting a ride in a 296 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 2: quote unquote robotaxi on a closed course at a demo 297 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 2: is not anywhere near the same thing as a robotaxi 298 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: being deployed in public. So, like, I think Dan is 299 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: right if they give If they don't give anyone rides, 300 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: that that will be a disappointment. But even if they 301 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: do give rides, everyone needs to watch that with a 302 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 2: you know, with a big granult. 303 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 3: Google has been. 304 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 2: Doing this for like fifteen years. Other companies, me and 305 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: Craig and Dana, we've all sat through demos on real 306 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: roads with robotaxis before. Like this has been going on 307 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: for a very long time. It is not novel to 308 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: be able to have a robotaxi demo on a close 309 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: of course, even though I am sure so certain that 310 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 2: Elon Musk will make it seem novel when he announces 311 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: it on the teenth. 312 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: Wait, the point is that Tesla does not have a 313 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: permit from the California Department of Motor Vehicles to deploy 314 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: any kind of robotaxi on public roads in California, full stop. 315 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: Like they do not have a pump permit. So the 316 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: only way that they can demonstrate this is to do 317 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: it on private land at the discretion of the owner. 318 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: And they're doing it at the Warner Brothers studio in Burbank. 319 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of reasons for that. I mean, 320 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: Musk has done demos at Hollywood studios before. He like 321 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: famously unveiled the solar roof on like the set of 322 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, Hollywood, what was it called, Desperate Housewives. So 323 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: that just the fact that it's happening on private you know, 324 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: on a private lot where you know they can control 325 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: the variables of what is in the built environment, is 326 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: really telling. 327 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: Now, Craig, this big event is late here East Coast time. 328 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 3: It's either super late London time or super early, depending 329 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: on the way you look at it. Three in the morning, 330 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 3: I'm guessing you're setting your alarm for two fifty five. 331 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: You're gonna pound a couple cups of espresso, and then, Craig, 332 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: you shall play Tesla cyber car cyber what what is 333 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: this thing again? To cyber cab launch bingo? Are you 334 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: not gonna play bingo? And to play bingo? Craig Dana 335 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: seems to have a card ready for us well. 336 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: So to back up for a bit. Listeners of the 337 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, regular listeners of the pod know that we 338 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: often make an earnings call bingo, and this time around, 339 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: instead of earnings called bingo, we're doing Robotaxi edition Bingo. 340 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: And you know, like Musk uses a lot of stock 341 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: phrases over and over again. So we've got the big 342 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: O card and you'll be able to download it at 343 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: some point. But I bet Craig and Max and David 344 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: you can probably guess some of the words. 345 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: Come on, I'm Max, Tesla is an AI company. 346 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: I think you say that. There we go, Craig, what 347 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 3: here is this square? 348 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: There is a square called that that very simply just 349 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: says AI. 350 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 6: I got a feature complete March of the nines. 351 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: Oh those are good. Gosh, they're not on the card though. 352 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 353 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 6: Regulatory approval, We do have regulators. Regulators. 354 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, not not optimistic en up for approval. 355 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: We have some other phrases are scalable, cost per mile, 356 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: compute bus ticket end to end. We also have horse max. 357 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: You want to explain the why why horse often comes 358 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: up on our Bingo cards? 359 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 3: Do you remember the bastery like Elon? 360 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: There have been a few horse related incidents, I believe, 361 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: But I think what this refers to is the fact 362 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: that Elon has said that buying a car without this 363 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 2: technology would be like buying a horse. 364 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 6: Can I throw one one other animal one other animal 365 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 6: related card? How about boy boy who cried FSD instead 366 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 6: of boy who cried wolf? Because Elon has called himself 367 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 6: the boy who cried full self driving and was wrong. 368 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 3: This is why you're not part of the committee that 369 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 3: creates the Bingo card. You're demanding squares that are just 370 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 3: too hard. No one's gonna get Bingo America and the 371 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 3: world more broadly, they want to get Bingo. They want 372 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 3: to say Bingo. All right, listen, this is what we're 373 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: gonna do. First thing Friday morning, Craig, we're gonna have 374 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 3: you back on. You're gonna give us your impressions of 375 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 3: the grand unveiling of the cyber Cab, and perhaps we'll 376 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 3: hear a little bit from Max and Dan as well. 377 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 3: So Craig, we say goodbye to you, sir, Thank you 378 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 3: for joining us, Thanks for having me. Okay, now, the 379 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 3: cyber Cab launch should have been the biggest news story 380 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: of the week for Elon. But then then Elon showed 381 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 3: up with Trump and Butler Pennsylvania and it got a 382 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 3: little wacky. Let's actually listen to the tape when Trump 383 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 3: introduces him on stage. His name is Elon Musk. Saved 384 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: free speech. He created so many different great things. Where 385 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 3: is he? Come on up here, ey lot. 386 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 2: He created the first major American car company, and generations 387 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: in his rocket company is the only reason we can 388 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: now send American astronauts into space. 389 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 3: Come here, take overy, Lot, Yes, take over. 390 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 2: Hi everyone. 391 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 5: As you can see, I'm not just Maga, I'm dark 392 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 5: Mega Jacob. 393 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. We appreciate having you on. You 394 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 3: are an independent journalist and currently writing a book about 395 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 3: the tech industry and right wing politics for Bloomsberry, which 396 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 3: is all perfect for this segment. Did you watch this 397 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 3: either live or subsequently Jacob on Saturday? 398 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I did. I caught it later. I wasn't able 399 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 4: to watch it live. 400 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: And your thought as you are watching this scene, well. 401 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 7: Of course, I think the screenshotted images, the still images 402 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 7: of Musk flying the air and awkwardly with minimal vertical 403 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 7: leap and his belly showing might be the one that 404 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 7: lingers most. Or maybe him leaning forward kind of leering 405 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 7: at Trump with this sinister handshake. I think those are 406 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 7: the things that a lot of people will take away 407 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 7: rather than anything that he said. I mean, he later said, 408 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 7: I believe on Tucker Carlson that he claimed to have 409 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 7: improvised most of that, and perhaps it showed. The biggest 410 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 7: takeaway for me is just the scene and the setting 411 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 7: that this is a fairly big event for Trump. He's 412 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 7: coming back to the horrifying event for him of the 413 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 7: tempted assassination, and right there next to him is the 414 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 7: richest man in the world, who just a few months 415 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 7: ago was a little bit restrained in his support, at 416 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 7: least not totally open and opening the floodgates of money. 417 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, now, Max, why the jumping well, the jumping that 418 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: I cannot answer, and like Jacob is saying, the memes 419 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 2: have been fierce around, like these gestures and the jump 420 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 2: and everything. My reaction here was just like, wow, he 421 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: is all in. You know, this is a guy who 422 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: is you know, really putting everything, his entire identity and 423 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 2: a lot of his money behind this very very polarizing 424 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: reelection effort. 425 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and Dana, I will admit I didn't watch it. 426 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 3: It was Saturday afternoon. I was busy gambling, so you 427 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: will forgive me, but you know I did in catching 428 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 3: up afterwards, I had this sort of the same thought. 429 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 3: I believe there is a moment or two in the book, 430 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 3: in the Walter Isaacson biography of Musk, in which you know, 431 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: there's either Musk says it directly or Isaacson very much 432 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 3: gets the sense that at some point periodically I just 433 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 3: say fit and I just put ey. Musk just put 434 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 3: all my chips in the table and it was gonna 435 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 3: let it ride. Kind of seems what's going on here? 436 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that. Okay, So it's one 437 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: thing to start a pack to support President Trump. It's 438 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: another thing to sort of publicly endorse Trump. And then 439 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: it's like a third thing to like campaign with him. 440 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: I mean, no other CEO does that because you know, 441 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: people like hedge their bets and they don't want to 442 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: be on the wrong side if your side loses. But 443 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: I think that Elon Musk has made the calculation that 444 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: this is a very close race. He's already poured millions 445 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: of dollars into this campaign. He's now very focused on 446 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania as a UPenn graduate, you know, he's like, I 447 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: know the state. He's like campaigning with Trump. He's gonna 448 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: do more events with Trump. And I think for him, 449 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: it's like he wants his you know, he wants his 450 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: guy to win, and he somehow thinks that he is 451 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: value add But I think what was most disturbing to 452 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: me was this whole dark Maga thing. I mean, it's 453 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: like a dark vision of the future, and Musk is 454 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: becoming very dark, like saying, if you don't if Trump 455 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: doesn't win, this will be the last election that we 456 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: ever have. I think that it just really solidifies Musk's 457 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: reputation going forward, like people will people will will not 458 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: remember him as the guy who was trying to help 459 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: solve the climate crisis with electric cars. They will remember 460 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: him as the guy as the richest person in the 461 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: world who threw in all of his chits with Trump 462 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: and still on stage with him wearing like a dark maga. 463 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, and to that point, he actually I've now seen 464 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: appears in ads for Kamala Harris as someone that they 465 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 3: wanted very much linked to Trump. Jacob Dana mentioned just 466 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 3: now how unusual it is for a business executive of 467 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 3: his rank to campaign with the presidential candidate. And I 468 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 3: actually checked in with our DC crew and they don't 469 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 3: have any recollection of having seen it in recent history. 470 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 3: I suspect it's a fairly risky gambit, is it not. 471 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 4: I think so. 472 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 7: I think, you know, there is some precedent here. Even 473 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 7: at that event. One thing I did notice was that 474 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 7: I believe John Paulson, the Hedge funder, warmed up the 475 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 7: crowd or spoke briefly. 476 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 3: That must have been That must have been a barn 477 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 3: burner of a speech. 478 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 7: Yeah, I think there's a reason why it hasn't been 479 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 7: circulating on social media. But you know that that is 480 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 7: representative sort of the plutocracy that is part and parcel 481 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 7: of Trump and the backdrop behind him. But on the 482 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 7: other hand, You're exactly right. There there's been no one 483 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 7: of this media ubiquity, of this level of power and 484 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 7: wealth and influence, and must seems to understand, or at 485 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 7: least it has been joking about with Tucker Carlson that 486 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 7: there is some risk here. He's a major government contractor. 487 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 7: This has been brought up by numerous people, including Tucker Carlson, 488 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 7: and there are I think questions about some of the 489 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 7: donations and any campaign finance issues here, or even the 490 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 7: data collection that's been conducted by America Pack that's being investigated, 491 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 7: I believe by some state election officials. So there are 492 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 7: all kinds of potential exposure for someone like him. 493 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 3: We actually have that clip right now. Let's let's listen 494 00:24:58,880 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 3: to it. 495 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 4: Loses, man, what You're fucked dude. 496 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 3: If it does. 497 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I think he's joking, but also 498 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: not joking, right, I mean, there are a swirl of 499 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: federal investigations, and I think these comments do speak to 500 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: the fact that he's bought in. Jacob mentioned a couple 501 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: of things that also happened alongside this appearance, one of 502 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: which was the Carlson interview. The other is that Elon 503 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: announced this kind of big pushed collect names for a 504 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: mailing list. He's going to pay forty seven dollars per 505 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 2: person per registered voter in a swing state that you 506 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 2: refer and this is significant. People have asked sort of 507 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 2: questions about, well, what you know, does this potentially violate 508 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: you know, election laws and stuff. I seriously doubt it does. 509 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,959 Speaker 2: But I think what it does signal to me is 510 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 2: that Elon Musk has ambitions to be a political player, 511 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 2: maybe in the long term. I mean, you know, one 512 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: one of the things that one of the things about 513 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: showing up at this thing, at a Trump event is 514 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: there's sort of no going back from it, right, It's 515 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: going to be very difficult for Elon Musk to sort 516 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 2: of like departisan himself if this. 517 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: Were sort of a more run of the mill John 518 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: McCain kind of you know candidate perhaps, But if someone 519 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 3: of this il Donald Trump and the polarizing effect he 520 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 3: has in the place, yeah, we've seen it happen. 521 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: But like the combination of showing up at the events, 522 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 2: putting all this money, but the fact that he's spending 523 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: potentially a substantial amount of money building this mailing list. 524 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: So if you do the math, forty seven. He's saying 525 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: he wants a million names times forty seven dollars. That's 526 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: forty seven million dollars buying a forty seven million dollar 527 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: email list. Obviously, that would be useful to the Trump 528 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: campaign to potentially turn out voters. It could be an 529 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: asset going forward, right like having a massive mailing list 530 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: of Trump aligned registered voters in swing states would give 531 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 2: Elon potentially be a power worker going forward, no matter 532 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 2: who wins or loses this life. 533 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 3: All right, we're gonna move on to the main topic. 534 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 3: You know, Jacob again, way back when when we first 535 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 3: thought we'd have you on, we were gonna have you 536 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 3: on just to talk about X and how you managed 537 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 3: very impressively to get a judge to unseal the names 538 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 3: of all the investors who bought the company alongside Elon. 539 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 3: Tell us what you found. 540 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 7: Sure, So, thanks to the help of our CFP or 541 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 7: Reporters Committee for the Freedom of the Press, I filed 542 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 7: a motion to intervene in one of the many lawsuits 543 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 7: that Elon, Musk and X are facing since the acquisition. 544 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 7: And in one of these lawsuits this is related to 545 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 7: employment issues and basically people suing the company who were 546 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 7: let go. They had to file a list of shareholders 547 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 7: X did, and they chose to do. 548 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 4: So under sealed. They want to keep it secret. 549 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 7: Now, these kinds of things happen all the time, and 550 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 7: so do with these kinds of emotions to intervene. But 551 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 7: this was something that I had been looking for and 552 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 7: wondering about, was who was actually the money behind must 553 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 7: taken over the company. We had some sense there were 554 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 7: SEC filings and public statements that gave us some idea, 555 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 7: but nothing with the sort of force of illegal filing 556 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 7: like this, and it actually worked rather quickly, within about 557 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 7: a month or the summer, a judge ruled in our favor. 558 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 7: You know, I think there are some surprises there, and 559 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 7: I think it gives a good sense of who Musk 560 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 7: is turning to for money. And also the difference is 561 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 7: actually between what he says to some people and in 562 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 7: both in public and private, and then actually how this 563 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 7: played out. 564 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: And the list is pretty wild, because I remember when 565 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: it came out, we were all like, I was like, 566 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, like Jacob. 567 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: Got the list. 568 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, but it's like this rogues gallery of like 569 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: foreign money, but then like Fidelity, and but then like 570 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: Sean Comb so Jacob jan maybe like run through the 571 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: highlights of like who who actually the investors are sure? 572 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 7: I mean, and some of these were mentioned in passing before, 573 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 7: like Shawn Combs, the you know recently indicted P Diddy 574 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 7: is definitely on there. We don't necessarily know for what amount, 575 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 7: but he has a company called Shawn Combs Capital, which 576 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 7: is maybe a reminder that so many of these celebrities 577 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 7: are now investors there are you know. One thing that 578 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,959 Speaker 7: I really noticed was the difference between those texts that 579 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 7: were released as part of the Delaware court proceedings that 580 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 7: kind of convinced must to go through with the proceedings. 581 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 4: I think. 582 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 7: But in those texts he was telling David Sachs said 583 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 7: he was in, but he's not on the actual list. 584 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 7: Unless there are a few companies that can't identify their owners. 585 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 7: Maybe one of those is his. Some other close Musk 586 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 7: associates aren't on there. In the text he Musk was 587 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 7: constantly telling people that the deal was oversubscribed. You know, 588 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 7: Larry Elson would say, oh, I'm in for two billion 589 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 7: if you want. But then we you know he was in, 590 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 7: but it doesn't seem to be oversubscribed because he has 591 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 7: people like this guy Andrea Stroppa, who's kind of a 592 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 7: semi obscure Italian cybersecurity researcher and just seems like a 593 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 7: guy must talks to on X. That's sort of this 594 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 7: category that I called the inexplicably rich. And then there 595 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 7: are also companies like Fidelity, which is a huge financial 596 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 7: firm invested in more than two dozen funds. But then 597 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 7: also you have kind of lower tier financial firms, I 598 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 7: would say, you know, and also even venture capitalists who 599 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 7: you know, through no fault of their own, but typically 600 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 7: do smaller deals like less than five hundred thousand dollars. 601 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 7: You just wouldn't expect that kind of more obscure, smaller 602 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 7: money to be part of this, especially when Musk was 603 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 7: telling his billionaire friends, hey, this is oversubscribed, but all. 604 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 3: So obviously he was having to work a lot harder 605 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 3: to stump to get people to put up the cash, 606 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: and he was intimating now they're also there was a 607 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 3: list of a few prominent or at least one prominent 608 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 3: Saudi name. 609 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 7: One of the largest or the largest outside shareholder of 610 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 7: Twitter when it was a public company was a Prince 611 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 7: al Willi bin Tallal from Saudi Arabia. He's listed three 612 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 7: separate times in the official ownership list as Kingdom Holding 613 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 7: Company and then under his own name, Prince Ali bin Tallal. 614 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 7: The important thing there, I think is one he was 615 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 7: always close, of course to the Saudi regime. But a 616 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 7: few years ago MBS, the notoriously violent Crown Prince of 617 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 7: Saudi Arabia, imprisoned a few hundred notables, including this prince, 618 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 7: and had a lot of them tortured and forced to 619 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 7: turn over their assets. This was part of what was 620 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 7: called an anti corruption purge. So I think that kind 621 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 7: of relationship with an authoritarian nation state is a big 622 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 7: part of the X story right now. 623 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 2: People should read the piece that Jacob wrote about this 624 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 2: in The Baffler because it's really funny. It's got a 625 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: lot of jokes and kind of like Dana kind of 626 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: hinted as breaks these people into categories, and but when 627 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: you take it into totality, I mean, it's just it 628 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: is like a weird collection of supporters and enablers which 629 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,479 Speaker 2: we have known about, but which kind of encompasses a 630 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 2: lot of sketch, a lot of foreign money, a lot 631 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 2: of people who we don't quite know where their money comes. 632 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 2: From Binance, which you know was founder was pled guilty 633 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: and just got out of prison, is a major investor, 634 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 2: and fine, you know, that's kind of how capitalism works. 635 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: But like, this is a company that is playing a 636 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 2: very significant political role. It's not just a like, you know, 637 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: social media site. It's it's a major way that like, 638 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: especially people on the writer are consuming their news. And 639 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: like we've had these discussions so many times over the 640 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: last ten years or so that it's almost like trite 641 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: or cliched to bring it up, but like it definitely 642 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 2: seems like a lot of people you wouldn't necess necessarily 643 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 2: want to have like super close to to like election 644 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: advertising or or messaging about voting, or telling people that 645 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 2: the vote is rigged, as we're seeing over and over 646 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: again on X, So like its just something to keep 647 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: an eye on. 648 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 3: I think, you know, this is probably not. 649 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: The right place to say this, but this whole story 650 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: about Elon and politics, the thing that I've found most 651 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: amusing and fun is that Politico reported that that Elon 652 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 2: is planning on doing more events with Trump, having even 653 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: more political engagement Trump, and it mentioned that he went 654 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: to a Steelers game over the weekend. 655 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: That that big to be clear that I did walk 656 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 3: he's a big football fan. 657 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 2: He was waiving a I think it's terrible, but this 658 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 2: political story sourced to I don't even know who with 659 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 2: some some somebody familiar or whatever, said that he's also 660 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,239 Speaker 2: a fan of the Philadelphia Eagles, So he's he's for 661 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: all the teams he's going to. He's going to be 662 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: extremely relatable to Pennsylvanians over the next a month. 663 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: Late, I've been joking around like, so we can we 664 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,479 Speaker 1: confirm that Musk is gonna do more events? And I've 665 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: been joking around like what is the what is the 666 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: next campaign event? Is Musk gonna go to a sheets 667 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: or a wah wah, Like, is he gonna yeens around 668 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: and like drink rolling rock beer? Like what is the 669 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: penaltimate like Pennsylvania campaign event to do? 670 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: He's gonna go to the old vet the link that 671 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 3: he's gonna watch the Eagles hilariously. 672 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 2: It seemed like the chief point of evidence here is 673 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 2: that he attended the Super Bowl game featuring the Eagles 674 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: in Rupert Murdoch's owner's box like all great Eagles fans. 675 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 3: Of course, he has been in the owner's box with 676 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 3: all all I'll say this is having known now, knowing 677 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 3: that he was at the game and having bet and 678 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: lost on the Steelers, I needed him to waive that 679 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 3: towel and shout and holler a little bit more loudly 680 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 3: to get the Steelers home. Listen, Jacob, We're gonna wrap 681 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: it up there. When your book is out, sir, please 682 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 3: let us know and we will absolutely have you back on. 683 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 4: That'd be great And thanks for this. It was fun. 684 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 3: Max Dana thinks as well as always grease to be here. 685 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Of course, nice, don't you, Jacob. 686 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and 687 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 3: Rayhan harmanci Are are senior editors. The idea for this very 688 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 3: show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and 689 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 3: Dave Purcell fact checks. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. 690 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 3: The Elaning theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa 691 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 3: and Alex sugi Ura. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, 692 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 3: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A 693 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 3: big thanks as always to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm 694 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 3: David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and review 695 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 3: our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See you 696 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:46,919 Speaker 3: next time.