WEBVTT - Chris Kimsey 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to the barb Left That's podcast, 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:18.280 my yesterday as producer of Engineer Chris Kim's Chris. Glad 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.720 to have you here, Bob. It's a pleasure to be 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.439 seeing you and talking to you. Believe you, men, I 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.080 feel like we've known each other for a long time. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.520 It was Peter Fampton that first introduced me to your blog. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.400 It must have been like two thousand and thirteen, maybe 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.440 two thousand and twelve, I'm not sure. Ever since then, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:40.200 I've been religiously following you. UM. I never chirp up much, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:42.319 I never step in. I think I've only said one 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.120 or two things ever, But I really I really respect 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.680 your love of the music business and your care with 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.760 the music business as well installing in a lot of 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:56.920 people things that they don't know and should know. Thank you, 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:03.120 good night, don't brother. Okay, what was the first record 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.560 you ever worked on? The first record I ever worked on, 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.080 UM would have been as an assistant engineer, a tea boy, 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.200 or as an engineer where how far do you want 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.399 to go back? All the way to the beginning, all 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.360 the way to the beginning, right The first record I 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.760 would have worked on, UM was It would have been 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:27.560 a jingle for UM Martini Try a Taste of Martini 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:31.440 any time anywhere, that one, which you might not get 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.560 in the States. I don't know, but it was. It 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:39.320 was for UK TV adverts and at Olympic we did 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.760 a lot of those sessions from seven am until ten 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.039 in the morning, the jingle sessions, and that would have 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.080 been the first session UM I would have worked on. UM. 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.320 Actually no, I tell a lie. The first session I 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.280 ever worked on was the day that I arrived at 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:58.120 Olympic to start work. I just remembered, so UM I was. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.240 I arrived at the studio my first day and the job, 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.559 and I was told to go up to Studio one, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:10.200 introduced myself to the engineer, sit down and observe. So 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.600 I walked into Studio one, introduced myself to the engineer 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.160 who's still a very good friend of mine. Alan O'Duffy 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.640 and Anna looked at me, startled, and he said, do 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.480 you work here? I said yes. He said can you 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.280 take over? Because the engineer at the assistant engineer that 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.160 was working with me, he's suddenly turned really sick and 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.200 he's disappeared, so can you take over? So I didn't 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.280 tell him that, you know, I just walked in the building. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.880 So I sat down. And because I was familiar with 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.640 tape machines, my mother and father bought me a tape 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.080 machine when I was about ten years old, so I 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.639 knew how to press record, stop, start, rewind, those simple things. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.960 And I looked at the tape box and could see 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.200 what the log was, what people were writing in for 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.800 the log. And the special only lasted like thirty minutes. Again, 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:06.240 it was another jingle session. And at the end of 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.840 the session and and said thank you very much, Chris. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.600 He said, They said, I haven't seen you before. How 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:13.880 long have you worked here? I said, well about forty 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.359 five minutes now, So that was off to a good 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.639 start and A has been a dear friend every since. Actually, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.320 let's start from the beginning. Where were you? Where did 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:27.040 you grow up? M I grew up in Battersea in 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:33.240 southwest London, um um and in my school from the 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:39.960 age of like eleven through fourteen. My school not said that. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:44.240 I was really interested in the school plays and theatrical stuff, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.840 so having a tape recorder was really handy because I 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:54.640 was asked to do the sound for the school plays. Um. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.520 Anything to get off doing the actual lessons, but I 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.760 loved English lit. I loved doing in the sound effects 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.560 of the plays. And that took me to a really 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:09.480 interesting place because the school were they they suggested that 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.800 I go to a recording studio in in the middle 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.520 of London, near Tottenham Court Road, which was in a school, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.400 a tiny little studio. It was a four channelvill Texian 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.719 mixer and a stereo phareograph machine. UM. It was mainly 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:30.800 for dialogue, mainly for drama. And I was sent there 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.760 every second Saturday in the month. And I'm like twelve 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.080 years old, thirteen years old getting on the tube going 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:43.760 up to London. UM. And I met another young student 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:49.040 in there who also became a very very dear friend, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:54.080 a gentleman called Ray Staff. And Ray was one of 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:59.320 the best mastering engineers. He just retired about a year ago, 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:05.839 but he's his last residence was air mastering, but he 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:10.960 was at Columbia Sony in London Whitfield Street, tried and 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.599 I think he started at Trident actually, and he was 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:18.719 one of the best mastering engineers in the UK for sure. UM. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.400 And occasionally I have the nerve to the cheek to 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.320 pull him out of retirements. Sometimes and say, you've got 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.520 to master this one for me. So it's quite a 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.719 strange that he and I were because he's from East London, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.600 so it was a very different part of London. So 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.440 it was quite of wonderful that we met there and 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.360 then we met in a later life as well when 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:41.839 our careers that you know, kind of the following the 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.200 roads and paths that we did. Okay, were you surprised 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.040 when you saw the Battersea Power Station on the cover 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.800 of the Pink Floyd album. Um? Yes, I was surprised 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.920 by that, but I mean it's such an iconic building. 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.520 Um it was, you know, it was fantastic to see. 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:02.120 I just want to go to the the thing with 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:07.279 Ray because there's another little wonderful at addendum to that story. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.920 So the teacher, the music teacher in that school who 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.599 donated his saturdays to teaching young students, um, the two 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:21.680 of us. Um. He was also a musician and he 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.040 loved his jazz. So one afternoon he said to me, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.400 he said, Chris, would you mind staying behind? He said, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.000 I've got a little trio like to record. And we 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.960 only had like three or four microphones, well four microphones 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.680 because we had four knobs on the bull text in 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.360 so so I stayed behind and recalled the Teacher's Little 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.839 Jazz Ensemble. Well, many many years later I saw his 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.880 face pop up because, um, his name is Ray Cooper, 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:54.200 and I think you know Ray Cooper for the percussionist. Yeah. So, Um, 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.000 there was a wonderful moment a long time ago where, um, 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.200 we hadn't seen each other since I was fourteen years old, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.520 and I saw him. There was an event for um, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.239 what was the Elton and Bernie album, The Two Rooms? 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.200 Was it? Yeah, there was a big Yeah, there was 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.120 a big event for that. U and I attended that 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.880 event and we kind of, you know, I just kind 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.520 of looked. We saw each other from a distance and 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.120 we both started to cry as we walked towards each other. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.840 It was unbelievable. Um, And what a wonderful man he 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.880 was and still is terrific gentleman. Okay, what did your 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.840 parents do for a living and why did they buy 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.720 that tape recorder for you? Well, I'm not sure they 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.400 bought it, Bob. I think it might have fallen off 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.560 the back of a lorry, as we say in London. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.080 That begs the question of what your parents were doing 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:53.080 every day. Well, my my my mother worked as UMM. 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.720 She was what you would call hr now. She was 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.400 working in a bank UM and she was part of 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.960 the accounts team. And then my father, my father was 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:09.080 an under taker French polisher and carpenter, and he had 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.360 a job at a big department store here called the 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.600 co op Um repairing stuff that had come in broken 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.000 or had to be repaired, furniture. But that's where the 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.160 back of the lorry, you know, gifts would sometimes arrive. Okay, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:31.960 so you grow up exactly the right time the Beatles hit, etcetera. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.760 You talked about your theatrical interests as a result of schooling. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.560 To what degree were you interested in the popular music scene. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.680 I wasn't that interested in popular music, in fact, where 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.400 even when I started working at the Olympicum, the kind 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.400 of band scene didn't interest me at all. I mean 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.480 I just missed Jimmy Hendrix by about a year. At Olympic. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:56.880 I think Jimmy was there when it first opened with 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.280 Eddie Eddie Kramer, and I never met Jimmy. I never 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:04.439 met Eddie, actually I missed him. Um. And my whole 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.840 love of music was really it was film scores. It 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.280 was musical films. Um and the only two tapes I 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.520 had for my tape machine were Fates and Artra Songs 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.200 for Swinging Lovers and Nat King Cole with George Shearing. 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.520 Um and they were really my two introductions to the 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.960 sonics of music, of recording. Um and they've stuck with 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.120 me ever since. I mean, two of my favorite recordings ever. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.960 Um So in starting at Olympic um No, let's go 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.040 back a little bit before. Yeah, so, how does your 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.120 schooling end? How do you get the job? Little? Okay, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:49.200 the schooling ends? Um. I left school when I was 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.080 sixteen and a half. I didn't go on to further education. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.800 I didn't go to college. And um I because of 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.680 my love of recording. In a way, I missed quite 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.360 a lot of lessons because of that, which I enjoyed 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.640 missing because I got more involved in recording the music. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.800 So in leaving school, I didn't have any path or 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:18.120 direction um and, apart from my love of of of music, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.120 and so I had odd jobs of like I had 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:28.120 a job driving for Ferrari, not the race. There was 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.280 your job driving with Ferrari, not not not the racing team. 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.160 I was picking up spare parts for Ferrari because I 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.520 passed my license as soon as I could. I passed 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.880 my driver's license, so I was driving that Tina when 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.000 I was like seventeen sixty and a half years old. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.240 So um um, and I had another job picking up 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.200 spare parts for another factory. UM. So I was always 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:56.160 traveling and then um um. I had two girlfriends at 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.560 the time. One girlfriend lived in Barns around the corner 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:03.240 for malmn Pick and the other girlfriend lived across the street. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:09.000 And whilst going to Barnes every week to see your girlfriend, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.720 I would I would just go into Olympic, into the office. 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.360 I didn't know what was in there. I had no 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.240 idea what do we called. Your studio was really m 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.880 apart from they recorded something and I would go in 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.199 and just say if you've got your jobs and they 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.520 said no, no. I go back the next week and 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.160 same thing. Well after the third week, they sort of 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.360 got fed up with me said okay, what's your name, 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.319 what's your phone number? So I gave him that information 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.000 um and then took up another driving job. And then 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.880 I suddenly got a call for an interview with Keith 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:46.280 Grant and went to the studio met Keith, who built 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.240 Olympic studios who designed it and one of the best 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.880 recording engineers ever. And Keith showed me around and I 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.360 was in total or I mean it was it was 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.920 four track, just moving into eight track and to see 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.000 that equipment and the console, the Olympic console, and he 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.160 took me to see the studios terrific and he said, well, 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.480 I've got some technical questions for you. So I thought, 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.760 I was ship, here we go. I'm gonna this is 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.640 not going to happen. And he said, how do you 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.400 wire a thirteen and plug? You know the words? How 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.320 do you you know wire a main sac? Well I 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.080 knew that that was simple and actually built my own 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.800 little radio at home as well. So um, and that 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.440 was it. That was the end of the test. So 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.679 I thought, okay, well, wonderful to meet you. And they 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.439 just said, well, well, you know, we've got a lot 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.360 of other people were talking to and went home a 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.080 week pass nothing, and then after that I thought, well 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.560 I better look around for another job. So a girlfriend 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:49.720 across the street, her brother had a company that were 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.520 supermarket fitting. So you traveled around the UK fitting out 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.600 supermarkets and the the overtime was really good. It was 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.560 it was driving, which I like it's again. So I 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.240 was about to start that on a Monday morning, but 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:09.720 fortunately Olympic called on the Friday before that Monday and said, hey, Chris, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.040 can you come in Monday morning and start for eleven 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:17.959 pounds a week? Um, and that was it. Okay, how 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.560 long did you work, Jingles? How did you go from 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:25.360 t boy to assist hto engineer? What was going on there? Um? 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:30.199 Pretty quickly? Um, from te boy to tape operator because 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.760 I had all the skills and knowledge really. Um. The 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.920 great thing about Keith Grant was that he could see 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.320 he was a people person, and I think in meeting 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.679 with me, he knew there was someone there that would 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:49.000 really um, would really lock in with other musicians and 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.599 other engineers. There was a spirit that he, you know, 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.400 knew was inside me and the love of music as well. 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.960 So UM. I was an assistant engineer for maybe three 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.559 three years, which at the time seemed like an eternity 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:09.800 because another engineer, another assistant engineer, was doing sessions UM 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.520 and Keith said, he said, the longer you can stick it, 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.560 you know, being a taper on different types of sessions, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.960 you'll learned so much UM. And that became so true 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.720 because um so I spent maybe a year and a half, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.520 maybe two years assisting Keith on a lot of the 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.920 film music UM, the Thomas Crown Affair, the original one 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.680 with Windbles of My Mind, michel Le gram Um. I 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.840 was assistant on that UM, the Italian Job by Quincy Jones, 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:46.119 the assistant on that UM, a lot of Jesus Christ Superstar, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.200 assisted on some of that UM, a lot of really 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:55.760 good large session UM orchestral sessions UM. And as an 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.680 assistant you had to set the whole room up UM. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.640 You know, if it if it was a fifty or 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.000 sixty piece orchestra, you would have someone else to help you. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.000 But generally it was the assistant engineer's job to set 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.680 up the whole room so that when the producer or 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.080 the engineer walked in at like ten am, they could 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:12.800 almost just sit down and push the faders up in 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:19.120 press record um. UM. That taught me a great lesson actually, 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.160 which I know still reflect upon today, is that I'm 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:26.920 always prepared for anything on the session UM, and to 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.280 the point where I'll prepare before the artist, before the band, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.840 before anyone arrives, because I like to kind of like 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.040 to take the studio out of the recording process so 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.240 that the musicians are there to create UM and you 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:47.840 enjoy themselves really to you know, to give a great performance. UM. 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.400 And I'll never forget that from Keith. So after about 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.240 a year and a half, two years of working on 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.920 those sessions, I was then asked if i'd like to 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.880 work the evening sessions, which was the you know, the 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.200 and the rock and roll music UM. And they said, well, 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.040 we're gonna put you on a Glenn John's session. Now 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.320 I've never met Glenn's. I didn't know who he was. 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.760 And the other assistants had worked with Glenn, and they said, 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:18.280 you better be really careful. Was Glenn suffer snow falls? Um? 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.480 And um just beyond your guard. So I studied what 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.680 he wanted, what he needed and the first session he 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.560 walked in seven pm. Everything was ready to go and 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.280 he loved it. And then he asked me to be 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:38.520 on future sessions. Well, future sessions were things like the Eagles, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:45.400 Steve Miller band, Um Delaney and Bonnie Joe Cocker, UM, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.600 Joan Arber Trading UM, look kind of the Eric Clapton, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.680 the Kreme de La Krem of that time and period. UM. 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.120 And then the first time I met the Stones was 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.200 with Glynn. Okay, wait wait before you go, before you 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.080 go back that you're working with Glenn, what did what 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:10.639 did you learn from him? Specifically? Um? I learned UM 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.480 I learned are the professionalism in terms of how to 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:21.560 inspire and get musicians to deliver U without without them 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.800 really knowing that they were being kind of you know 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:30.240 that was happening to them. U. Encouragement um uh. You know, 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.359 encouragement come come in different forms. It can um. It 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.479 can also come in the form of like someone say, 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.600 well that's a part of crap. You know you can 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:44.760 do better, um, which you know it's true. UM. So 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.679 people take that on boarding and then they lift up 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.480 their games. So UM. And Glenn just had a great 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:55.760 finesse UM and style about his approach to being an 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:59.240 engineer producer because he was one of the first freelance 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.600 engineers term producer UM. And the reason he worked at 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.439 Olympic a lot was because well, not only did it 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.800 sound amazing there, but abbey Road wouldn't not let engineers 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.760 in from outside. If you were an abbey Road engineer, 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.600 you couldn't work there. And Glenn had grown up working 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.320 in IBC Studios, which I think it might have still 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.719 been going, but you know, his career had moved on 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.240 and he found this wonderful temple of sound that he loves. So. Um, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.800 So I learned a lot from Glenn and we're still 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.520 really very good friends today. Um. I mean, you know, 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:38.040 Glenn's a no bullshit guy, um and doesn't suffer any fools. Um. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.639 I'm not sure I'm quite as hard nosed as that, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:47.280 but um, I've got my ways. So um, it was. 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.320 It was a wonderful education between So. Then you say 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.600 you were talking about how your metap Stones. Yeah, that, though, 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.520 was was an interesting session. The first session so it 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:02.360 was brown Sugar, the early days of Brown Sugar. Wait wait, wait, wait, 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.520 before we get to brown Sugar, you were involved and 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.200 you were involved and leeds up when three correct? Yes, 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.639 I was the assistant on that. Yeah. Yeah, I did 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.159 a lot of sessions with Andy Johns as well. I 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.080 was flip flopping between the two brothers. So um, two 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:21.520 very different styles of producing and recording. Um, both you know, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:26.360 getting incredible results. Um. So Andy I worked with ten 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:31.880 years after who I later worked with myself. Um um 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.680 oh gosh, um more of the heavy m West Bruce 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:46.040 and Lang Um Spooky Tooth, Humble Pie, um who else 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.680 with Andy? I can't remember much else with Andy actually, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:20:01.120 but quite a lot. You know, people are very interested 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.399 and leads up in three because of course it was 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.119 a left turn concerning what came. It had come before 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.679 any stories, any inside because people you know, whover that 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.159 stuff up. Yeah. Well I knew the first album obviously 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.840 because that was recorded Olympic. I wasn't there at the time, 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.000 but I was in the building, so I knew of 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.920 the album. And and also that's the album that Glim 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:27.560 made with Jimmy so um um led Zeppelin to um 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.480 Classic and then let's have been three there was. I 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.720 mean it was a little bit of a missmash in 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.040 terms of it. Eddie Kramer doing some engineering, Andy John's 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:42.760 doing some engineering um um. So but for me that 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.440 experience have been with them, I've never been impressed by 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.320 rock and roll stars. I mean the only person that 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.720 I've ever been kind of not impressed. That's like not 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:57.840 the right word. I've um. I'm very easy going in 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.760 meeting musicians, um. But the only person I've ever been 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:06.560 nervous of meeting with Sean Connery. UM. So UM. In 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.119 working with Zeppelin, it was it was another band, UM, 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.600 and you know, fantastic to work with. UM. I actually 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.040 heard the squeak on the bass drum, and since I've 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.439 been loving you, there's a squeaky bass drum which never 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:26.439 got old, and I cherished the thought that it's still there. UM. UM. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.040 Working with Jimmy, actually I could you know, I could 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:34.560 see Um a genius. But they were all so in 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.719 tune with each other. And the fact that Jimmy's background, 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:43.280 Jimmy's background, you know, came from session in a session musician. UM. 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.720 Same with John Paul Jones. So, UM, that was an 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.560 exciting thing to happen that you've got basically the session 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.320 musicians who get together from you know, one of the 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.720 biggest bands in rock and roll. So let's go back 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.639 to Brown Sugar. Okay, So the session for Round Sugar 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.400 seven PM. I've got the whole room set up. I've 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.600 never worked with the Stones before. Glynn gave me the 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.600 line up, set it all up. UM. Stew had arrived 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.440 to you know, put the amps up and set them 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.520 up in Stuart. UM. I didn't realize that Stew was 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:17.360 in the band at that time, I thought he was there, 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:23.320 you know, the roadie UM UM and seven o'clock, no 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.480 one arrived. Seven thirty eight o'clock, no and arrived. So 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:29.960 I just sat there waiting and about quarter past eight, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.240 UM two people walked into the recording area. Now the 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.560 control room is quite away from the entry to the 0:22:37.600 --> 0:22:41.040 recording area, so I see these two characters come in. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.200 I did not think they were to do with the band. 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:47.040 I thought, then they look a bit shifty. I'm not sure. 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.879 So I called security and said that there's two guys 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:52.600 have just walked in. I don't think they're supposed to 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.080 be here. It turned out to be Bill and Charlie UM. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.560 So that was my first introduction to them, which was great. 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.119 And then Glenn followed him behind UM and everything was 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:07.439 fine after that. UM and then UM and working with 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.959 Jimmy Miller was an inspiration. UM. I learned a lot 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.000 about the feel of a record, the feel of a 0:23:15.560 --> 0:23:19.439 band playing together, because I'm all, you know, this is 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.320 all I'm like a big sponge taking all this information 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:27.040 in because coming from the love of of U film scores, 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:31.320 musical scores, freights and Archer nat King Cole coming from 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:35.120 that area of music. This is very very different, very different, 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:43.040 but just as powerful, UM and just as illustrating. So UM. 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:48.520 So in starting assisting on the Brown Sugar Sorry that 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:53.720 the Sticky Fingers album, that was it the Sticky Fingers album. UM. 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.280 Some of those tracks have been recorded in the States, 0:23:56.960 --> 0:23:59.879 some mixed house at Star Groves, UM, some in the 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:05.040 Olympic m I kind of I got the impression that 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:11.119 Glenn um Glim was kind of interested still in the sessions, 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:13.680 but not much with the band. And I didn't realize 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:15.600 that he you know, he'd been working with the band 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.560 from day one, you know, from before they even got signed, 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.040 so he had a long tenure with them, and and 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:27.399 that the next thing, you know, after after they finished 0:24:27.440 --> 0:24:30.600 working with Glenn, then they worked with Keith Harvard on 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:33.480 Black and Blue. And Keith Harvard was an Olympic engineer, 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.280 so we were good friends. Keith also worked with Zeppelin, 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:39.480 I mean a lot of Zepplin stuff. UM, we were 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:44.960 very close. And then I think it was on that album, 0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:48.800 on the Sticky Fingers album that UM I ended up 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.680 doing overdubs with Mick, but did vocal overdubs with Mick. 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:54.960 I recorded the saxophone on Brown Sugar with Bobby Bobby 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:59.080 Keys Um and I think at that that moment in time, 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:04.280 Stut and Glenn, who were very very close they had 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:07.080 been for years, I think they kind of had a 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:10.280 little chat thinking about in the future who might work 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:14.879 with the Stones, okay, and what they decide. Well, what 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.800 happened was later a few years, some years later, after 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.240 Black and Blue and what else came after that. It's 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:25.159 only rock and roll, like, um, I was. I just 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:29.400 got back from the States doing Peeda Frampton's Frampton Comes 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:33.399 to Live album. Um And I arrived home and just 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:36.080 got in the front door and about to unpack my 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:39.440 suitcase and the phone rings and it's Stey and Stuart. 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:43.080 He said, Chris, what you're doing? And I said, oh great, 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.240 Stu just got home, gonna I'm back and check out 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:47.560 for you know, a few weeks. He said, no, you're not. 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:50.520 He said, don't unpack, You're coming to Paris on Monday. 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:55.840 You're doing the next Stones album. And that was some girls, Okay, 0:25:55.920 --> 0:26:00.159 let's go back. So you work on Sticky Fingers. Do 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:06.560 you end up working with Frampton? Okay? Um. I was 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:11.320 the assistant on a French artist called Johnny Halliday, and 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:17.679 Johnny Holliday was the that the French elvis huge, huge 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:21.159 in France. Um, if you're with Johnny you can't go 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.280 out anywhere you get mobbed. I mean he was a 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:29.040 serious star, bless him. And I was the assistant on 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:31.040 one of the albums that he was making, the Olympic 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:34.960 and on on the second day, the staff engineer never 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:38.240 turned up because he didn't like the French. So there's 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:42.560 Johnny and the producer and the band turning up with 0:26:42.640 --> 0:26:46.640 no engineer. So they said to the management, well who 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:50.000 can we use um And a few names were mentioned. 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.120 They said, well, we really like Chris. We've only worked 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:53.760 with him one day, but we really like him. Can 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:56.680 we use Chris? So that was kind of my launching pad. 0:26:57.040 --> 0:26:59.399 That was my first session in the hot seat, as 0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:04.880 it were. UM. And that session, the band that Lee 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:09.639 had a Johnny's producer had assembled was Gary Wright, Hugh McCracken, 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:16.320 Ringo Star, Klaus Worman, Peter Frampton. Um. You know, it 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:20.560 was a dream session, UM for Johnny and for me. 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.639 So I got to work with those musicians at a 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:27.600 very early age and UM, and that kind of started 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:31.040 my friendship with Peter. I'd know him, Peter and Humble 0:27:31.080 --> 0:27:36.480 Pie UM and UM from the Johnny sessions we became 0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:40.480 really really good friends. UM. We used to hang out 0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:44.760 a lot together. We both I discovered a love of 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:48.560 two things in that time of Tamila Motown music and 0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:51.399 the Scar music as well. UM. I actually used to 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:55.000 go to a Scar club down in a surbiton um 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:59.400 Chessington actually um about ten miles out of London. I said, 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:02.800 loves of ska music and Pete and I would you know, 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:05.639 we start for you know, ages listening to Stevie Wonder 0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:09.679 listening to Tamla Motown UM and kind of you know, 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.159 get so excited about the drum sound, the vocal everything 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.880 about it um UM. And so that was a really 0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.960 introduction to a lot of key musicians that I went 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.320 on to work with later. I worked with Gary Wright 0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:27.600 later on with Spooky Tooth. As I said Peter, UM, 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.440 so that was that was a big break for me actually, 0:28:30.680 --> 0:28:34.560 UM and I went on to produce I think six 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:38.360 albums with Johnny Halliday in my career UM and some 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:41.480 big big records UM Live at the Park, the Prince 0:28:41.960 --> 0:28:45.720 UM two. I think to live albums or three live albums, 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:50.080 and to studio albums, and we were really really good friends, 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:53.640 really good friends. Apart from the music, we we just 0:28:53.680 --> 0:28:57.040 really enjoyed each other's company. Um So, I missed him 0:28:57.080 --> 0:29:01.560 a lot. At one point, you leave staff at Olempic 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:05.560 and go independent. What are the decisions in there? Um? 0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:09.000 I can't remember which year it was, but I was 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:13.720 becoming as a an engineer, as becoming, you know, I 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:17.080 had so much work I would obviously I would always 0:29:17.080 --> 0:29:19.440 do Olympic because of the Olympic staff engineer. But then 0:29:19.560 --> 0:29:22.680 opportunities came along with bands who wanted to do it 0:29:22.680 --> 0:29:26.160 at other studios. So I decided I would leave Olympic 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:30.040 as a staff engineer and become freelance, which I did. 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:34.600 Um and then then I discovered the joy of you know, 0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:38.320 working in other studios, other environments, which I loved doing. 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:41.800 Um So. I used to work a lot at Basing 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:48.040 Street Studios, which was Island Records that became PSALM years later. 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:53.600 UM I used to work at Rack Studios. UM I 0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:58.320 worked at a place in Kent called Escape Studios with 0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:01.840 a band called Marmalade and Jeff Beck lived around the corner, 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:06.960 so Jeff was always popping in UM and then Alvin 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:09.680 Lee Halving had his own studio in his house at 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:13.720 Hook and Manner. I worked there, um, and then working 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:16.560 with Johnny. I was in Paris a lot, doing sessions 0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:20.760 with Johnny in Paris as well. UM, so became almost 0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:24.840 like a gypsy, which I really enjoyed. You know, I'm 0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:33.360 only like my early mid twenties now m seventy one, um, 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.480 and really moving around quite a lot. And then of 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:40.640 course Paris with the Stones, which was I mean collectively 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.600 maybe seven years of my life working with them and 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:47.920 doing you know, the three albums. Um, actually not seven 0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:51.400 years of my life in Paris, but we would have 0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:55.600 spent collectively maybe two two and a half years making 0:30:55.600 --> 0:31:00.280 those albums in Paris. Okay, let's go back a chapter three. 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:05.200 Frampton announces he's leaving Humble Pie just before the PM 0:31:05.320 --> 0:31:09.959 breaks pick. Then he puts out four solo albums before 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:13.240 he has the live album. First album. I just love 0:31:13.320 --> 0:31:17.440 that with you know by your side, when to change, unbelievable. 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:19.880 That was one of my favorite. That's the first album 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:25.040 that I worked with Peter on and um he very 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.680 kindly gave me an associate producer credit, which I didn't 0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:30.000 didn't understand what a producer credit was at that time, 0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:35.560 but it certainly helped. Um um Um. You know he 0:31:35.640 --> 0:31:38.880 was very nervous making that album, very excited but nervous 0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:41.920 because he was solo that the songs on the album. 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:44.960 And I remember getting Jim Price and Jim Horn to 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:50.160 do the horns on on the Stones song that he covered. Um, 0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:53.120 and that that version I can't remember which song is it. 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:56.760 Do remember what jumping Jack JUMPI Jack fashicles is Yeah, 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:59.480 ba ba ba ba, but yeah, um that version is 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:04.120 still one of my favorite versions of a Stone song actually. Um. 0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:06.280 And there was a lot of magical moments on that 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.400 album that I could talk about forever. There was one 0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:12.320 where we recorded over another day. We recorded it in 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:16.160 the stairwell at Olympic. Um. Um, you can hear a 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:20.720 seven four seven flying across about I think two minutes. Um. 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:24.520 It's that, you know, we couldn't get rid of it obviously. Um. 0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:26.480 And it was only when you had like one one 0:32:26.560 --> 0:32:29.160 jone bell jet every half an hour, not every three minutes. 0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:33.640 So um um that that was a beautiful moment. Um. 0:32:33.720 --> 0:32:37.400 And Peter's guitar sound as well. Um, that's when I 0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:41.520 discovered quite a unique way of recording his little Ampeg 0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:45.200 amplifier with two microphones, one at the front and one 0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:48.840 at the back. Um. And yeah, that that was just 0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:54.400 the absolute, um wonderful journey with Peter. And then and 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:58.120 then after that was what was it? Well before we 0:32:58.160 --> 0:32:59.880 get I know that the album. Before we get to that, 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:04.200 you mentioned I M pig. Tell me about since we're here, 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:07.360 tell me about your feelings of the sounds of different amps, 0:33:07.400 --> 0:33:11.280 different microphones, different boards. How deep into that are you? 0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:15.200 You have favorites, things that don't work. Um. I do 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:19.400 remember when the SSL desk came out that a lot 0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:22.520 of people were either you know, excited about it. A 0:33:22.520 --> 0:33:24.360 lot of people didn't like it. They didn't like the 0:33:24.400 --> 0:33:27.440 sound of it. Um. I made some great records on 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:33.480 the SSL desks. Although I'm um, I use any piece 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:36.080 of equipment to get what I want from it rather 0:33:36.160 --> 0:33:40.480 than expecting it to do something. UM that the Nave 0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:43.960 console has a terrific sound. I mean every console has 0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:47.960 a sound to me. UM. The Olympic console, the nine 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:53.480 console and the console which were built at Olympic for 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:57.000 Olympic by Olympics. They were two of the best sounding 0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:02.719 consoles UM I've ever heard. They musicality was really impressive. 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.840 The same with the NAVE, but the controls are very 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:10.160 different and you have to know how to add or 0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:14.400 subtract um the EQ that you're using on those. The 0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:16.799 problem with the SSL was you only had to turn 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:20.600 the game NB just even on, and you had three 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:23.480 dB barking at you. So you have to be very 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:26.200 very careful, and I think a lot of engineers, lot 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.440 producers overcooked the records and they started to sound a 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:33.719 bit skinny and thin. Um. But the advantages of the 0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:37.359 SSL soon became that with you know, with with lots 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:39.760 of multi track happening, with for the eight track happening, 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:43.360 you could alternate the faders, so that was pretty handy 0:34:43.480 --> 0:34:47.120 rather than um all hands on deck. Although I was 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:50.200 never a fan of faulty eight track recording, I'm still 0:34:50.280 --> 0:34:56.040 not UM. I still apply my discipline and my creative 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:01.360 discipline in recording as if were an eight track or 0:35:01.360 --> 0:35:04.040 a sixteen track, or maybe a twenty four track, because 0:35:05.080 --> 0:35:08.520 it's so much easy to mix anything when you've only 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:11.560 got to deal with sixteen faders or twenty four the 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.200 most you know, when you've got like forty eight seventy two, 0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:20.399 it's um it's yeah, it's okay, but it's it's not fun. 0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:25.000 It's not it's not a performance mix um everything. It 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:29.960 becomes very linearized and very controlled. And a lot of 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:32.640 records that I like, and a lot of records that 0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.120 a lot of people love. You know, we all talk 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:38.600 about their um the great sounds and the recording some 0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.560 of the sixties, seventies, and eighties, and they're they're they're 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:44.319 full of what people would say today, well they are. 0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:48.400 They're full of mishaps, mistakes, They're they're full of you know, 0:35:48.960 --> 0:35:53.040 some tuning problems, some timing issues. But that's what makes 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:56.320 the record human. That's what makes it possible to listen 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.239 to it again and again and again. When you know, 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:02.279 when I hear records that have all been quantized and 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:07.040 they're all just snapped to a grid um, that music 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:10.080 goes in, you know, in one ear, and you know, 0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:12.959 after about two or three plays, it's like, Okay, don't 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:14.760 really even to hear that anymore because I'm not getting 0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:22.680 anything from it. Okay. In terms of ems and Mike's UM, well, 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:27.759 growing up in studios in the in the sixties and seventies, 0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:31.680 I mean, all you had was you just had you 0:36:31.880 --> 0:36:36.680 sixty seventhsmen sixty sevenths you forty sevens A KG four 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:39.840 one fours m A k G D thirties, which is 0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:44.719 the best past Dr Mike ever. Um so um, you 0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:48.640 were really you didn't know that these microphones were but 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.600 well as good until many years later and you kind 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:54.719 of figured out, well, that's why that sounds so good, 0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:58.239 because you've got that beautiful valve microphone going into a 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:04.680 tape machine and analog tape. Um. So um, they're my 0:37:04.760 --> 0:37:09.160 favorite microphones, but I must say that Sure also on 0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:12.600 the top of my list. Some time ago I was 0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:17.719 invited by Sure with Eddie Kramer to beta test the 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:21.480 k S M forty four, which is Sure's kind of 0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:25.160 version of a U eighty seven but a fraction of 0:37:25.200 --> 0:37:28.560 the cost um and Eddie and I spent a good 0:37:28.680 --> 0:37:32.480 year or maybe two years in beta testing different versions 0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:36.640 and helping them get it right. So only I think 0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:38.759 it was three years ago. Two years ago I had 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:42.600 a master class at Kingston University UM and as part 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:47.759 of the session UM I picked out four microphones and 0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.319 we had a blind shootout test with myself and the 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:54.560 students as to what microphones sounded best and on the 0:37:54.640 --> 0:37:58.040 selection of instruments, not just one instrument. And this was 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:01.160 a semi classical recording, so it was an electric guitar. 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:05.600 There's nothing electrical, it's all it was. Remember it was piano, celestue, 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:13.560 acoustic guitar, violin um, clarinet, um. And I was so amazed. 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:16.000 I mean I really couldn't believe it that the Shore 0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:19.399 beat are you eighty seven? It beat a four one 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.719 four everything we put up, but there was one other 0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:25.719 I can't remember the other one one was but um 0:38:26.480 --> 0:38:30.600 they were old new versions of old microphones with this 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:34.600 shure O case forty four and the Shore one. Every 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:38.080 time it was like surreal. So I think sure for 0:38:38.160 --> 0:38:45.920 doing that. And amps and outboard gear, guitar amps yeah, um, 0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:53.279 oh gosh wow, I think small old fenders. There's too 0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:56.200 many now, I mean I don't have any. I like 0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:58.880 the amps that the guitar player gets a great sound 0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:02.000 and he knows the the fire. I mean, I'm not 0:39:02.480 --> 0:39:04.920 working with musicians who don't have an app that they 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:06.279 love and they know how to play and get a 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:10.439 result from um so um. Usually I'm working with people 0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:14.359 that have got terrific amplifiers, UM an out ball gear 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:17.359 That's an interesting question because I'm in the middle of 0:39:17.400 --> 0:39:20.800 building a new studio at Olympic now when we've got 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:23.879 We've got a nineteen seventy one leave console that's been 0:39:23.920 --> 0:39:28.480 completely restored. I've got eight of the sorry twelve of 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:36.600 the original Olympic nineteen sixty six and nine Mike and EQS, 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:40.080 Mike pres and EQUS, so we've got that covered. And 0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:42.760 I was looking at our balls stuff and there's so 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.279 much out there now. But really all I need is 0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:49.200 a couple of compressors, maybe a notch filter, an echo plate. 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:53.239 That would be great, UM, because everything else is you know, 0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:57.840 it's unplug ins. UM. You know I I don't have 0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:02.319 a problem, UM with digital at all, although I do 0:40:02.480 --> 0:40:06.640 know that some of the most enjoyable records to work 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:09.520 on and to mix and to live with have been 0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:13.239 recorded on analog and then put into pro tools. UM. 0:40:13.280 --> 0:40:15.239 I did this on two of the master classes that 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:19.319 I was talking about, where UM, the the university has 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.759 a twenty four track student and I'll only teach a 0:40:22.080 --> 0:40:25.399 UNI where they have analog tape machines because that's where 0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:30.040 it all comes from for me. UM. Talking about the discipline. UM, 0:40:30.200 --> 0:40:33.080 wonderful times with the students and the musicians. Because these 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.720 musicians are young musicians, they actually haven't recorded on analog before, 0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:41.960 so to give them that experience was quite fascinating. UM. 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:45.239 In terms of like, um, where you can't tell me 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:48.239 now that you want to over another xylophone because we've 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.319 only got one track left, so I'm gonna have to 0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:54.160 bounce down the violins and the viola onto one track. 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:56.319 They go, yeah, but we can change it. They can't. 0:40:56.320 --> 0:41:00.000 We say no, that's it. It's and at first they've 0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:02.480 very nervous, and then two hours later they can completely 0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:04.960 forget about it. Yeah, because it's done. And and that's 0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:07.799 another thing about you know, making great records, is that um, 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:12.040 with all the options in digital world now, where people 0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:16.919 aren't committing to a balance UM, it's um. I think 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:21.760 that makes for very strange sounding records. And the beauty 0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:26.040 of bouncing something down isn't really a restriction because you're 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:30.160 committing to it and you're building your sound around that sound, 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:33.960 rather than trying to build a sound collectively from a 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:38.880 hundred tracks or whatever you've got. And in terms of electronics, 0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:43.080 studio amps make a difference what speakers you listen to, 0:41:43.120 --> 0:41:47.279 what speakers you mix on UM speakers. Yeah, that's a 0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:56.239 wonderful question. Um um I I I like PMC speakers. 0:41:57.040 --> 0:42:01.800 I'm sitting in front of a pair now, I of Proact. 0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:04.759 I've got three bears of pro Act. I traveled all 0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:07.360 around the world with pro Rex. There might go to 0:42:07.520 --> 0:42:14.000 little speaker with a Bryson amplifier. UM. I've also um 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:18.680 um amphion speaker. UM. I was introduced to them maybe 0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:21.960 five years ago, I think when they when they first 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.440 appeared in the UK, and I was working with a 0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:30.319 artist from Norway. UM great blues guitar player called Um 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:34.799 Area Linton. UM. I think that's happened outside the last day. 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:39.960 We can't remember. Area An Area knew the the the 0:42:39.960 --> 0:42:42.839 the guy who made these speakers. So this they sent 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:44.759 them over for me to listen to, and I didn't 0:42:44.760 --> 0:42:49.120 get on with them. But then four years later I 0:42:49.200 --> 0:42:53.040 was doing a show with a p I UH and 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.680 they had the new versions of the speakers, and they 0:42:55.719 --> 0:42:59.920 blew me away. I mean I preferred those two putting 0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:03.080 anything I heard that day because I could listen to 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:05.680 them for hours and hours and not get fatigued. Not 0:43:05.840 --> 0:43:12.040 that I listened allowed volume um anymore. Um but they 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:15.319 were just really beautiful to listen to. And I like 0:43:15.360 --> 0:43:17.799 a speaker where I can close my eyes and not 0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:20.759 think of the speaker or know what a speaker it is. 0:43:21.080 --> 0:43:23.680 You know some speakers, I go, that's a JB L. 0:43:23.960 --> 0:43:27.279 That don't like that, that that's a Genelect Jenna lets 0:43:27.280 --> 0:43:30.480 are great, but they've got their own sound, so if 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:33.040 you know that, you can work with them. Every speaker's 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:36.920 got its own identity. Um. Although a speaker, like a product, 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:39.879 is so flat, it doesn't have an identity, but people don't. 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:42.040 Some people don't like that, so you have to work 0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:44.560 harder to get a good mix out of that. Which 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:49.040 brings me back to the Yamaha, the black NS ten 0:43:50.400 --> 0:43:54.239 that we all used to use, um and a p 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:59.920 over the over the twitter that was Bobby clear Mountain's discovery, 0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:04.560 an antissue paper over the tweeter. Um and um, and 0:44:04.800 --> 0:44:08.359 sure they you had to really work hard to get 0:44:08.360 --> 0:44:11.319 something to sound good on those shitty little speakers. But 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:15.359 once you've got it sounded great, it would translate everywhere. UM. 0:44:15.440 --> 0:44:18.680 So I'm very I'm always not sure of speakers when 0:44:18.719 --> 0:44:22.200 someone says to me, it's the best sounding speakers. Okay, 0:44:22.239 --> 0:44:26.640 So you play something UM that you've mixed or recorded 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.680 and you know, sure it's gonna sound big good because 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:32.320 it's already good. But if you're working on that speaking 0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:34.480 from scratch, it's a different you know, I think it's 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:46.360 a different Kettler Fish. You mentioned the brace and the amplifier. 0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:49.720 Are you someone who uh you know different the amplify 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:54.000 amplifier types, different brands are not as specific on that, 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:57.319 not so specific, but I do. I've worked. I've been 0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:01.799 working a lot with you know, dsp amplifiers built into speakers, 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:05.279 and I find that my ears I get fatigued a 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.839 lot quicker than I do with as if I'm using 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.680 a analog amplithia UM with speakers on the end of 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.840 it UM. So I don't know if that's my age 0:45:14.920 --> 0:45:18.359 or it's just my brain. Let's just while we're on 0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:22.040 this topic, let's just go to the digital analog in 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:26.839 terms of okay, you know they have now playback at 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:31.360 a much higher resolution even then c D, whether you're okay, 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:36.800 And then we have this analog revolution with vinyl, with 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:41.040 things cut digitally whereas opposed to something that was originally 0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:45.440 cut analog. What are your feelings about all this well 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.640 it it seems to me that it's all going to 0:45:48.800 --> 0:45:51.920 end up on digits anyway. Even if you record it 0:45:51.960 --> 0:45:54.800 on analog, you mix it on analog, it's going to 0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:58.400 get into digits. I need to be on you know, 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:03.520 to be on streaming on Apple Spotify, or if if 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:08.520 you're making a vinyl record only, you're still okay, you'll 0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:12.080 have the stereo, you have the stereo mixtape to take 0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:15.000 to have the mastering done for your vinyl. But there's 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:19.160 not any other situations. I don't think where you're going 0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:23.520 to use that stereo tape to create an analog master 0:46:23.640 --> 0:46:28.960 for an analog source like a vinyl record. So um, 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:34.319 I think that's a very limited, very niche market. Well, 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.719 we're an agreement on that, But the question would become, 0:46:38.320 --> 0:46:41.160 if we're going with digital or vinyl, where do you 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:45.520 come down on that argument? Can I just stay with analog? 0:46:47.239 --> 0:46:49.359 You could stay with the analog. But but you're saying 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:51.960 we're living in a digital world unlike when we grew up. 0:46:52.160 --> 0:46:55.440 Music is a portable one of the you know, I 0:46:55.520 --> 0:46:58.600 think you know, the sound has affected what music we get. 0:46:58.800 --> 0:47:03.480 You know, we have the compression wars, the loudness wars, 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:07.239 and then of course we have Spotify equing everything. And 0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:09.080 this is all affected. If you go back through the 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:12.719 stereo revolution of the sixties and seventies, people had great systems, 0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:16.040 people mix for that. Now people are listening on earbuds, 0:47:16.160 --> 0:47:19.480 we have beats with you know, push base. So I 0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:22.160 agree we're really living in a digital world. And as 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:26.240 you stated earlier, analog you know, is a minor factor, 0:47:26.320 --> 0:47:30.000 but it punches above its weight in terms of inc 0:47:30.840 --> 0:47:32.640 You know, we have this a lot of society, not 0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:37.600 only in music. We're constantly reading about vinyl, even though 0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:40.600 you and me know it's a very small part of 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.920 the marketplace. We also know that the average person doesn't 0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:46.719 have the playback equipment of a quality that they could 0:47:46.760 --> 0:47:50.000 even tell the difference. But if you have a typical 0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:55.680 this point three thousand dollar system and it's the it 0:47:55.840 --> 0:48:01.080 starts as digital, what do you prefer the end digital 0:48:01.120 --> 0:48:05.239 product or the analog product? Or is it subtle? Do 0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:08.800 you hear a difference? Now? I can hear if a 0:48:08.920 --> 0:48:12.879 record has been recorded on analog tight and then put 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:15.720 into digital and release as opposed to a digital digital. 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:19.200 I could actually hear that um and also I can 0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:22.600 feel it as well. Uh, I kind of it resonates 0:48:23.040 --> 0:48:26.600 in my mind and my body in a different way. Um, 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:29.960 I am. That's funny you mentioned that because I feel 0:48:30.320 --> 0:48:32.520 my example was, you know, the early days of c 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:35.080 D s. I put and I got I never want 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:37.759 to have any clipping, any distortion. I got plenty of power. Yeah, 0:48:37.800 --> 0:48:39.640 And I got the A C D C back in 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:44.880 black c D and I crank it. My ears are bleeding, Okay. 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:47.719 Then I put on the vinyl LP and your ears 0:48:47.719 --> 0:48:51.000 didn't lead. You know, it's like in the whole house 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:53.640 shakes and you feel some people might say you're hearing 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:56.399 the distortion, but it's night and day. It is night 0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:58.680 and day. I totally agree with you. And if I 0:48:59.360 --> 0:49:02.160 have so many c DS that I never played anymore, 0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:06.120 now I've got thousands upon thousands my vinyl which I've 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:09.439 got about six thousands. I played them every day. I mean, 0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:11.799 you know, there's always something out on the turntable. But 0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:15.560 the CDs, it's only the you know, the quick availability 0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:23.600 of them. Um that uh yeah, and um so I'm 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:25.560 not sure where alive with this one. I mean, I 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:27.520 just love the sound of analog. I know it's going 0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:31.520 to end up in the digital format. Somehow, because no 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:34.239 one's going to be listening to analog real to real. 0:49:34.360 --> 0:49:36.799 No one's gonna be listening to cassettes. No one's going 0:49:36.840 --> 0:49:40.080 to be listening to a analog tape that goes straight 0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:43.319 onto vinyl. But um, I think if you can keep 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:48.160 analog in the chain somewhere, you know, you're preserving some 0:49:48.160 --> 0:49:50.960 some part of that magic, some part of that thing 0:49:51.000 --> 0:49:55.120 that you and I hear and love so much. Um. 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:59.520 So let's be black and black, black and white. If 0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:03.479 it's digitally from beginning to end, Does it make any 0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:07.920 sense to put it on a vinyl record? No, I 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:09.960 don't think it does. Now you might as well be 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:13.600 split on the CD. Um. Yeah, yeah, you know, I 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:16.000 find it's to finish it makes more sense. Yeah, because 0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:19.040 in fact, put it on vinyl, you're gonna have to 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:23.359 roll off everything below fifty sides, so and to say 0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:26.439 at the top end as well. So it's yeah, that's 0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:30.279 not working at all. I recently I do a lot 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:33.720 of mastering as well. But mastering I would never pertain 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:38.319 to be the mastering engineer like Bob Ludwig or my 0:50:38.400 --> 0:50:40.200 friend Ray stuff. But I do do a lot of 0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:44.200 mastering to help UM people who you know who have 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:49.080 kind of would I say, problem albums um or need 0:50:49.239 --> 0:50:52.520 some real lifts, something different in it. And I do 0:50:52.719 --> 0:50:55.160 things like I'll add rever to the whole mix in 0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:58.080 the chorus. Because the mixes flat, the mixesn't happening. They 0:50:58.080 --> 0:51:00.160 don't have the money to go and remix it or it, 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:04.000 but I can help it by doing that. So UM, 0:51:04.040 --> 0:51:08.160 I love doing the mastering. And and I actually mastered 0:51:08.239 --> 0:51:11.680 something a few months ago that was from cassette and 0:51:11.760 --> 0:51:15.880 it sounded amazing. I mean it really did sound warm 0:51:16.040 --> 0:51:20.000 and beautiful and of that moment um. You know, there 0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:22.560 was a bit of hiss, but you can you can 0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:26.000 get rid of that easy enough. UM. And it was 0:51:26.040 --> 0:51:28.520 just sound enjoyable to listen to again and again and again. 0:51:28.719 --> 0:51:31.520 I really have to thing about analog tape. I can 0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:36.239 listen to any recorded performance UM that's been recorded the 0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.680 originally an analog, even if it's gone into digital later, 0:51:39.160 --> 0:51:42.480 and it pleased me a lot more than listening to 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:47.680 something that's digital digital digital. Okay, when do you start 0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:53.359 mixing records as supposed to just recording them? Um? When 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:57.680 did I start just mixing records? UM? I don't think 0:51:57.719 --> 0:52:01.239 there's many records that I've only mixed. Actually I think 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:05.520 generally i've I've always recorded and then mixed everything. Um. 0:52:05.560 --> 0:52:08.319 It was the opposite way round where Um, I do 0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:13.360 remember fondly um when it must have been. It was 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:18.080 Missed You with the Stones, and i'd mixed the album. 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:22.120 Um and Earl McGrath, who was the president of the 0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:26.200 Stones label at that time, lovely man not with us anymore, 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:30.080 but true gentleman, his best man at my at my wedding, 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:34.239 um um and um sorry not the best man he 0:52:34.360 --> 0:52:38.759 was at the wedding. And a he had this um 0:52:39.400 --> 0:52:43.240 young kid at the power station that was just started 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:46.759 to mix people's records who he's really a champion him 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:49.960 and his name was Bob clear Mounting. So there was 0:52:50.480 --> 0:52:53.719 an The first time I heard that someone else was 0:52:53.719 --> 0:52:56.480 going to mix my recording, I got really piste off 0:52:56.480 --> 0:52:58.279 and I was really like, well, what the fun's going 0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:02.080 on there? And then a one the full thing happened. Um. 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:05.000 A few months after that record came out, after Miss 0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:09.280 You came out, I was working in Los Angeles and 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:11.839 I was driving down pc H as you would do, 0:53:12.680 --> 0:53:16.960 maybe not now, but then you could. And I remember 0:53:16.960 --> 0:53:19.680 it fundly. I'd have rented Mustang and I had the 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:22.319 hood down. I was blasting the radio and Miss You 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:27.680 came on and I'm listening to it. I'm going, ship man, 0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:32.600 Bob is a genius. This sounds freaking awesome. This is fantastic, 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:38.080 really really excited. And and then um, the difference between 0:53:38.120 --> 0:53:41.439 Bob's mix and my mix was is that Bobby's mix 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:44.560 was the edited version and my mix was the unedited version. 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:46.440 So my mix had the sax solo at the end, 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:48.919 and all of a sudden, the sax solo came on 0:53:49.239 --> 0:53:51.680 and I went, oh, ship this isn't Bobby's mix, It's 0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:57.080 my mix. And that at that point I dropped all, 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:01.640 you know, kind of hostility to was anyone who had 0:54:01.680 --> 0:54:03.960 to remix something that I would recorded, because I figured 0:54:04.000 --> 0:54:06.920 out as long as i'd recorded it and got the 0:54:06.960 --> 0:54:09.400 groove and the sound and got it in the pocket 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:11.799 from the you know, from the get go, it would 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:13.560 you had to be stupid to fuck it up in 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:17.080 mixing it, in remixing it. And I've always stuck by that, 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:20.640 although I won't stick by that now with Dolby Atmos mixing, 0:54:20.760 --> 0:54:24.120 because I've had some experience with that which we might 0:54:24.160 --> 0:54:27.640 get too later. I don't know, I definitely do want 0:54:27.680 --> 0:54:30.920 to get to that. But but reversing the question, what 0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:33.759 was the first record or when did you start not 0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:40.160 only recording the records but also mixing them. Um, well, 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:44.560 thee the Fountain albums that would have been would have 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:48.680 been one period, that would have been one set of records. Um. 0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:53.359 I'm actually looking at my cv nows um. I had 0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:57.760 to print it out because I appear on seventy seven albums. 0:54:57.800 --> 0:55:04.719 I think it was something ridiculous. Um um okay, so 0:55:05.360 --> 0:55:10.080 killing Joke, Love like Blood, night Time, Brider than the 0:55:10.160 --> 0:55:15.720 Thousand Sons, recorded them, mixed all of that, although although 0:55:16.280 --> 0:55:18.520 some years later and brighter in the Thousand Sons, the 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:23.360 record company got Julian, the Australian mixer Julian. What's Julian's 0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:29.719 last name? Um? M hm uh and Julian was a 0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:33.240 very good mixer, but kind of flavor of the month 0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:37.080 when the album came out. So and then many years 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:42.200 later my mixes were released um on another version and 0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:46.040 it was just nice to see that the fans appreciated 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:54.440 my mixes as much as Julian's mixes. UM Marillion Um 0:55:54.560 --> 0:56:01.920 Diesel part West, Johnny Halliday, the Proclaimers Bill Wyman ten 0:56:02.000 --> 0:56:08.400 years after UM I recently recently remixed the Spacing Time 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:15.960 for Chrystalist Records because it's the fourtieth anniversary of that album. 0:56:16.400 --> 0:56:21.239 UM And that album was a real special special experience 0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:24.479 for me and Alvin as well in terms of it 0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:27.640 was kind of Alvin. It was there almost like their 0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:30.319 Sergeant Pepper. It was the first album that they used 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:34.719 string arrangements on UM and Alvin and I were like 0:56:35.360 --> 0:56:38.600 sonic fairies. We would really we wanted to push the 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:43.320 boundaries of of sound. Um So in in mixing the 0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:48.120 album again forty years later, um So it was recorded 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:51.960 in seventy nine, I think I think it was UM 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:57.120 and it was on sixteen track so um it was 0:56:57.160 --> 0:56:59.120 in pro tools. You know, the analog had been dumped 0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:04.480 into protols. UM And There's two ways that one can 0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:07.120 mix an album or even produce some recording an album. 0:57:07.160 --> 0:57:10.319 One is you record it faithfully, honestly of what you're 0:57:10.360 --> 0:57:13.279 hearing in the studio. There's nothing much to do with 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:18.600 it other than capture an incredible performance, you know, instilling 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:21.880 that in the musicians great rhythm section, or get the 0:57:21.880 --> 0:57:24.680 band to a level where they're performing at their best 0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:27.439 and you press the re call back with the write 0:57:27.480 --> 0:57:31.400 microphones to right console and you get it. Then there's 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:36.120 the one where UM, you capture that same those same ingredients, 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:39.560 but knowingly that when you mix it, you're gonna mess 0:57:39.600 --> 0:57:43.320 with it, You're going to really experiment with it. UM. 0:57:43.320 --> 0:57:47.240 And that's what I discovered in remixing the Space in 0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:50.960 Time album because UM, I loaded the multi track in 0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.480 the sixteen track and we didn't even use all sixteen 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:55.880 tracks either, so it wasn't as if there was a 0:57:56.280 --> 0:58:01.360 a pilet of information there. But what we did, what 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:06.160 Alvin and I did with those mixes was unbelievable. I couldn't. 0:58:06.560 --> 0:58:08.840 It took me. It took me about three days to 0:58:08.960 --> 0:58:11.640 mix each song to try and figure out what the 0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:15.080 hell I'd done because they just sounded so good. UM. 0:58:15.160 --> 0:58:17.480 And we only had a e M T echo plate, 0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:23.880 two compressors. UM. We had the Olympic console, which thankfully 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:27.720 Eddie Cramer did a clone e q U of the 0:58:28.320 --> 0:58:32.760 same desk that I recorded on the HLS Cramer e 0:58:32.920 --> 0:58:35.440 Q and also a pie a limitter because we have 0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:40.959 PIO limits there. UM, the echo plate, tape delay. Anna 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:45.040 Leslie now that Leslie I used to great extent because 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:48.720 I was I think I'm really right in saying that 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:51.880 when I mixed, I'd love to change the world. It 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:56.000 was the Leslie that gave it the identical, identifiable sound 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:59.640 um that you know, added to the atmosphere of the record. 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:03.440 UH created that you know, that great song that hit 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.800 um and other Leslie sounds had not been heard really 0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:10.840 as prominent as that before. So um it was a 0:59:10.880 --> 0:59:14.720 real challenge and quite wonderful to go back um um. 0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:17.720 I could actually I got into a position where I 0:59:17.760 --> 0:59:22.240 could almost remember how I was mixing it um because 0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:26.440 mixes them were a performance, you know, they weren't all 0:59:26.640 --> 0:59:29.919 um on the computer, so you could nudge this little 0:59:29.960 --> 0:59:32.439 bit there, that little bit there. It really was like 0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:35.520 you'd start from zero and then you'd end up at 0:59:35.520 --> 0:59:39.520 plus eight or somewhere in riding the faders um um, 0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:43.760 and and even arranging the mix on the go. Of course, 0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:45.760 the other way to do that would be to mix 0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:49.240 it in sections and edited together as well, which I 0:59:49.280 --> 0:59:53.160 did with the LP. So um that was it was 0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:57.080 a really good journey to go back um um you know, 0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:01.360 um test my knowledge of how I made that sound, 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:04.000 and I look forward to sharing that with students as well. 1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:07.800 Actually it was really good. Okay, let's stay on that point. 1:00:07.880 --> 1:00:11.640 Remixing professionals learned how to get the most out of digital. 1:00:11.960 --> 1:00:15.280 Record companies wanted to milk the audience for more money, 1:00:15.360 --> 1:00:20.040 so they were constantly equeuing records remastering them on digital. 1:00:20.400 --> 1:00:23.600 But then it became an issue remix. There's this guy, 1:00:23.720 --> 1:00:27.600 Steven Wilson did Jo throw tall, a lot of other things. 1:00:27.680 --> 1:00:33.520 He literally remixes to sound exactly like the original, only cleaner. Yeah, 1:00:33.560 --> 1:00:36.720 I know Stephen, I know Stephen, and in fact he's 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:40.720 I mean that's a real task because he's remixing something 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:43.280 we know. He wasn't there any original sessions. He's got 1:00:43.280 --> 1:00:45.640 no notes, he's got a multi check, he doesn't know 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:48.360 what solo was used, what vocal was used. I mean, 1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:51.360 it's a month's worth of detective work before he can 1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:56.520 even in, you know, at the leaves sting of mixing it. Um. 1:00:56.760 --> 1:01:01.840 So yeah, that's um. I wouldn't have the patients to 1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:07.120 do that, Okay. So in any event, they sound Donna 1:01:07.200 --> 1:01:10.640 called to the originals, but cleaner you go to the 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:14.240 Beatles remixes and not good with Giles but I find 1:01:14.280 --> 1:01:17.880 it's offensive. These are classic records one of the other, 1:01:18.200 --> 1:01:21.320 and I'm worried that the remixes will take over from 1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:24.960 the originals as time goes on. Well, the only take 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:29.920 over if that that's the only thing is available. UM 1:01:29.240 --> 1:01:33.880 and And I totally agree with you about I really 1:01:34.080 --> 1:01:38.640 I've had some big wars and problems with with record 1:01:38.680 --> 1:01:44.120 companies remastering a record I've recalled him mixed produced um and. 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:46.680 It's gone from label to label to label over the 1:01:46.760 --> 1:01:48.880 last thirty years, and each time it ends up with 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:51.680 the new label they remastering, It's like, we got it 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:53.920 right the first time, Why are you fucking with it again? 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:58.560 One big problem for me was when UM, I think 1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:03.800 this was about five years ago, UM them Some Girls 1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:10.240 was reissued and remastered UM and UM. I wasn't sent 1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:14.480 anything to approve it. Um. The only time I got 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:17.800 to hear it was when I bought it or downloaded it, 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:21.400 and I was terrified at what I heard. I mean, 1:02:21.480 --> 1:02:24.160 I was really in shock. It was terrible. It had 1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:26.960 been compressed to death. It was that whole a loudness 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:30.080 war thing, and it didn't even it didn't sound like 1:02:30.160 --> 1:02:32.760 the same record that I made I mean, it's hard 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:36.400 to believe that remastering can screw screw something up so much, 1:02:36.440 --> 1:02:39.280 but it can. So I complained to The Stones, to 1:02:39.440 --> 1:02:43.920 the management, um, and I just got a reply back saying, well, 1:02:44.160 --> 1:02:46.640 it's got a five star review. You know it's okay. 1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:49.920 And then three months later I looked on Amazon and 1:02:50.200 --> 1:02:53.080 everyone was saying this is atrocious. I want my money back. 1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:55.880 It's a load of crap. And every review was the same. 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.280 So you know, I stick with my original statement. UM. 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:03.520 So yeah, remastering. There's only been a few remasterings that 1:03:03.560 --> 1:03:06.160 I've really enjoyed. Mom was the Peter Tosh album that 1:03:06.280 --> 1:03:09.720 I did, and that was we mastered. Um. Um Abbey 1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:14.960 Road that did sound really really good. Um. And Jimmy 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:19.160 Cliff album Um Special that we master sounding good, but 1:03:20.800 --> 1:03:25.560 Old Merillian sounding good too. Um. It's um yeah. Mainly 1:03:25.640 --> 1:03:30.920 the Stones is quite it's quite atrocious. Okay, go back 1:03:30.960 --> 1:03:33.880 to space in time the ten years after album. What 1:03:34.160 --> 1:03:38.320 is your goal in remixing it? If I know the original, Well, 1:03:38.560 --> 1:03:42.560 how will I hear the remix? What might be different? Um? 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:47.360 A little bit like what you said about Steve Wilson 1:03:47.600 --> 1:03:52.520 is that there's a there's more clarity, especially on the 1:03:52.600 --> 1:03:56.800 drum sound um and the vocal sound um. Trying to 1:03:56.840 --> 1:03:59.480 get the guitar sounds the same as the album that 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:04.720 was a Allen's as well, um um. But definitely the 1:04:04.800 --> 1:04:09.000 drums because um, we would have mixed those songs maybe 1:04:10.680 --> 1:04:15.280 well definitely like to maybe three mixes a day. I mean, 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:17.600 we didn't spend a lot of time that one does 1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:21.600 or or went on to do in mixing. Um. So 1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:25.000 the drums, I think, of anything, will possibly suffer because 1:04:25.240 --> 1:04:27.880 the drums were recorded on either two tracks or three 1:04:27.960 --> 1:04:32.760 tracks um um. So it was quite limited at the 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:35.040 time with what you could do with that if you 1:04:35.120 --> 1:04:38.160 really wanted to mess with it. So um, there's definitely 1:04:38.360 --> 1:04:41.240 a lot more clarity all around, I think. Um. And 1:04:41.360 --> 1:04:44.520 also there were a couple of tracks on the album 1:04:44.640 --> 1:04:47.800 the original mixes why I always felt that the vocals 1:04:47.880 --> 1:04:50.520 were a little bit too low. UM. So I did 1:04:50.640 --> 1:04:53.800 push those up a tiny bit, but I respected and 1:04:53.920 --> 1:04:56.960 I think any anyone who has asked to remix anything. 1:04:57.120 --> 1:04:59.640 I mean, I was fortunate because I recorded the original, 1:05:00.200 --> 1:05:02.480 so you know, at least I had a clue, well 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:05.720 the big clue of course of me. So um. But 1:05:06.720 --> 1:05:10.360 in sending something an album that to a mixer who's 1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:12.480 not been involved with it at all, who doesn't even 1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:14.920 really know the music, but it's just been asked to 1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:17.960 remix it was the label, you know, the copyrights running out, 1:05:18.000 --> 1:05:20.400 and they want to you know, remix it to reissue it. 1:05:20.800 --> 1:05:24.240 I think that's really dangerous and I think the major 1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:26.880 record companies, if they're going to continue doing that, they 1:05:26.920 --> 1:05:31.880 should actually form like a consultium of of producers and 1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:35.520 mixes from that period who, you know, at least have 1:05:35.680 --> 1:05:38.640 some consultation with whoever they're farming it out to to mix, 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:42.959 you know, to make sure there's respect to the original record. Okay, 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:44.919 let's go back to Frampton. He puts out the first 1:05:45.000 --> 1:05:47.440 record most people have no idea who Free Empton is, 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:52.240 makes some impact, then forms the band Camel. Not as 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:54.000 good as a first record, but very good. You talk 1:05:54.000 --> 1:05:56.840 about Tamla Motown. There's a great cover of I Believe 1:05:56.880 --> 1:05:58.840 When I Fall in Love with You will Be Forever 1:06:00.000 --> 1:06:05.920 Ward album. Something's happening, artistic and commercial disappointment. Fourth album 1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:09.400 when many people have given up, an incredible home run 1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:12.760 Fampton and Yeah, and then all of a sudden there's 1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:20.040 the Comes Alive double album, explain what happened there. Um. Well, 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:23.240 the live versions are faster than the album the studio versions, 1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:27.240 so there's a you know, obviously there's that incredible injection 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:31.960 of adrenaline on the live performance. Um um. And also 1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:34.960 I think with I think with a lot of artists, 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:38.040 then when you're a solo artists coming from a rock 1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:40.080 and roll band to go out on your own and 1:06:40.160 --> 1:06:43.800 make a solo album, UM, it takes maybe a year 1:06:43.960 --> 1:06:46.160 or two for you to really know the songs that 1:06:46.240 --> 1:06:50.160 you're performing. Um. And they obviously changed quite a lot 1:06:50.240 --> 1:06:52.880 from the recording in the studio to what they actually 1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:55.920 go out on the road and sound like. Um. Just 1:06:56.080 --> 1:06:58.360 in terms of you might have the same musicians that 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:01.120 you use in the in the study video recording, and 1:07:01.200 --> 1:07:03.240 when you go on the road, you've got the group 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:05.480 musicians that you're playing with year in, year out, so 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:11.200 it's it's more honed down um um UM. I think 1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:14.000 when Peter went out on the road and did that 1:07:14.200 --> 1:07:17.800 huge slog around which you know, the Fampton comes a 1:07:17.880 --> 1:07:21.520 live album came from where when they went out and 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:25.960 did that, um, just put the pro tools so it 1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:30.400 didn't stop. It's okay, just screen up, um. When Um, 1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:33.040 when Peter went out on the road and slogged around 1:07:33.080 --> 1:07:38.240 for for ages doing those performances. Um, two things happened. 1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:41.160 I think one was that the band were really really 1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:44.959 tight and Peter had his act down. And Peter had 1:07:45.200 --> 1:07:52.280 also moved away from this musician songwriter didn't really think 1:07:52.320 --> 1:07:55.840 of himself as a singer, but say uh, and I 1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:58.880 think it was always holding himself back from the singing. 1:07:58.960 --> 1:08:01.360 But when he got front of stage in fact of 1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:04.520 the audience, that's changed all of a sudden, you know, 1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:08.560 he broke through that barrier, um and just put his 1:08:08.640 --> 1:08:10.280 heart on the line and his voice on the line, 1:08:10.360 --> 1:08:13.800 and it connected with people. Um. The most wonderful thing 1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:17.360 in mixing that album was that you could actually you 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:20.680 could just push up the four two or four. There 1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:23.400 would have been two I think maybe three audience mix 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:26.760 and just from listening to the audience was like, you know, 1:08:27.040 --> 1:08:29.519 you would get the adrenaline as well. And they weren't 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:32.000 huge gigs, whether they were like the film or East. 1:08:32.080 --> 1:08:35.320 They were you know, pretty small rooms per se um. 1:08:35.520 --> 1:08:38.519 But wow, what sound and what a joy to mix. 1:08:38.600 --> 1:08:40.760 I mean, um, you know, there was a lot of 1:08:40.800 --> 1:08:43.040 stories about all a lot of stuff has been replaced. 1:08:43.320 --> 1:08:46.320 We never replaced anything except for a piece of world 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:49.160 It's Them where the words of the lead had come out. 1:08:49.600 --> 1:08:52.559 And there was one other thing, a technical break where 1:08:52.640 --> 1:08:55.519 something was missing, and we replaced that. But that was it, 1:08:55.640 --> 1:08:58.200 and we definitely didn't double up on the audience either. 1:08:58.800 --> 1:09:01.920 Um you know, it was what it was. And there's 1:09:01.920 --> 1:09:04.080 a great story about that album, which I'm sure you 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:07.280 may have heard. But um so d Anthony, Peter's manager 1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:09.800 at the time, said okay, you know we're going to 1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:12.519 do a single album. That's it. Let's get it finished, 1:09:12.560 --> 1:09:17.200 and were presented to the label. Um and so finished 1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:20.320 mixing the first album as it were, Jerry Muss came 1:09:20.360 --> 1:09:23.040 down to the studio, listened to it all back. He's 1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:26.320 sitting there. After we played side one, side to he said, 1:09:26.720 --> 1:09:30.400 where's the rest? We were what do you mean? He said, 1:09:30.520 --> 1:09:32.240 what is it? Where's all the where's the rest of 1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:34.640 the concert? Where the other songs? They said, it's got 1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:37.080 to be a double album, so we had to go 1:09:37.200 --> 1:09:39.320 back in and mix the rest of the album. So, 1:09:40.120 --> 1:09:43.080 um yeah, d you got that one really wrong. Um 1:09:43.479 --> 1:09:47.040 so yeah, that was and after that, you know, Peter's 1:09:47.120 --> 1:09:51.720 life changed dramatically. I mean the the start and that 1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:54.400 he had to endure and he wasn't really prepared for 1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:57.400 it either. I mean it really it really hit him 1:09:57.880 --> 1:10:05.280 by surprise. Um, and his manager didn't help us, as 1:10:05.360 --> 1:10:08.759 he has told me. Um, did you have any idea 1:10:08.880 --> 1:10:11.800 Frampton Comes Alive was going to be the phenomenon that 1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:14.840 it was? No? Not as big as it was, No way, 1:10:16.200 --> 1:10:18.439 I did feel that it was. It was at the time, 1:10:18.560 --> 1:10:22.120 maybe one of the best live sounding records ever, because 1:10:22.160 --> 1:10:24.640 I've heard a lot of you know, live albums at 1:10:24.680 --> 1:10:28.000 the time, and nothing seemed to come close to it 1:10:28.160 --> 1:10:32.519 sonically or as an experience as well. Um, it was 1:10:32.600 --> 1:10:38.240 almost like the whole songs on this kind of I know, UM, 1:10:39.040 --> 1:10:43.400 this plateau, this air, they were like floating around, but 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:46.320 they were so positive sounding, and that was the audience. 1:10:47.479 --> 1:10:49.800 How did you feel when Peter did not use you 1:10:49.960 --> 1:10:52.479 on the next album, Mom and You and it was 1:10:52.560 --> 1:10:55.360 a disaster? Well he did use me on that album. 1:10:55.760 --> 1:10:57.760 Oh I didn't know. I thought you just came back 1:10:57.800 --> 1:11:01.720 and they returned to form the one after that. Tell 1:11:01.760 --> 1:11:03.880 me your experience of arming you were it was a 1:11:03.960 --> 1:11:08.640 disaster and it wasn't. I think I came Did I 1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:11.400 come back? Under force I might have with D. I 1:11:11.479 --> 1:11:15.560 don't know. D was a very vicarious manager, not a 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:20.720 very nice person actually, um and UM. I think I 1:11:21.000 --> 1:11:23.680 came back more out of support of Peter, But I 1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:27.799 was pretty bitter at the time because I've been promised, 1:11:27.960 --> 1:11:30.720 you know, to be part of Peter's career. If it 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:33.280 was successful, I would get a percentage, you know, a 1:11:33.360 --> 1:11:37.240 producer percentage. I never received any of that. D D 1:11:37.439 --> 1:11:43.400 threatened actually to UM. Yeah, he he made some comments 1:11:43.479 --> 1:11:46.240 that if I ever approached Peter for any money or 1:11:46.240 --> 1:11:48.759 anything like that, I'd never work in New York City again, 1:11:49.680 --> 1:11:52.400 which is a young twenty four year old terrified the 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:55.400 ship out of me, um and and it was very 1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:57.400 difficult for me to go back and work with Peter. 1:11:58.120 --> 1:12:01.080 Um and I'm in you because of that, um And 1:12:02.040 --> 1:12:05.200 that actually in going back and working and I'm in you. 1:12:05.840 --> 1:12:09.320 UM after that, I don't think we worked together after that, 1:12:10.400 --> 1:12:12.240 but I think you worked one more time, Oh yeah 1:12:12.560 --> 1:12:15.800 on Churchill. Yeah yeah, not not. But also we're you 1:12:15.840 --> 1:12:20.360 saying the album where I should be, Where I should be? Yeah, okay, 1:12:21.000 --> 1:12:23.479 So but after where I should Be, it was still 1:12:24.160 --> 1:12:27.200 not a very good you know, not very good atmosphere 1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:31.320 all around really um, still with D you know, in control. 1:12:31.680 --> 1:12:37.240 UM and this this kind of relationship with Peter where UM, 1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:39.880 I felt like, hey, come on, step up to the plate. 1:12:40.040 --> 1:12:42.680 You know, it's like I've paid my jewes with you. 1:12:43.479 --> 1:12:49.280 Um and UM and not realizing that he was being 1:12:49.400 --> 1:12:53.679 completely you know, ripped off by D, that his life 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:57.240 was a mess UM and D was also part of 1:12:57.360 --> 1:13:01.560 that UM. And so after that it was almost like 1:13:02.439 --> 1:13:06.479 my friendship, my love for that man, you know, stopped 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:10.120 and it really really hurt me in a lot of ways, 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:13.599 as I'm sure he did Peter. And then many years 1:13:13.680 --> 1:13:15.719 later we got back together. We took all the ghosts 1:13:15.720 --> 1:13:19.720 at the closet, UM, and we kind of made up, 1:13:19.800 --> 1:13:21.920 hugged and it was back to the music again. It 1:13:22.040 --> 1:13:25.160 was fantastic. You know, he's a genius. I love him 1:13:25.200 --> 1:13:28.000 to bits and he's been such a good friend you 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:31.040 know since we did all that so um, and he 1:13:31.240 --> 1:13:33.240 was a part of my career and my whole you 1:13:33.280 --> 1:13:37.160 know success story. Really, so I can't you know, I 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:40.759 can't knock him for that. I never knocked him for anything. 1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:43.560 It was just it was just sad that you know, 1:13:43.760 --> 1:13:47.840 he wasn't really guided and advised right yeah to um 1:13:48.240 --> 1:13:51.320 to look after himself, to support himself and to support 1:13:51.400 --> 1:14:03.679 his friends around him. Um. So, but that happens okay. 1:14:03.720 --> 1:14:06.599 You talked about the producer's percentage on the Frampton albums. 1:14:07.160 --> 1:14:11.320 At what point did you start getting a producer's uh percentage? 1:14:11.600 --> 1:14:13.680 And this was in the development I mean this is 1:14:13.800 --> 1:14:17.559 varied from zero to five cent for a long time. 1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:21.880 The standard was for who negotiated your deals and and 1:14:21.960 --> 1:14:23.640 how or did you do it yourself? And when did 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:25.720 you start getting a percentage? Oh? No, I didn't do 1:14:25.760 --> 1:14:28.960 it myself. I had a couple of managers at the time. 1:14:29.000 --> 1:14:33.000 One was Rick Aliberti, American manager at would Stop Now. 1:14:33.439 --> 1:14:38.240 Another one was Mims scala Um out of London. Um. 1:14:39.320 --> 1:14:43.240 They were two oh Satha Jeffrey as well at one 1:14:43.360 --> 1:14:48.600 time in London. UM. And I think um um, I 1:14:48.680 --> 1:14:52.560 think the first voti the first valty check with the 1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:57.960 first producer agreement was with Johnnie Halliday. UM and boy 1:14:58.120 --> 1:15:01.519 was that a good yeah, good one to have um. 1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:06.000 And it was respect from both sides, so that was wonderful. Um. 1:15:06.280 --> 1:15:09.280 And then Marillion, kidding joke actually got a contract with 1:15:09.280 --> 1:15:14.200 Peter Tosh, which was amazing um and Jimmy Cliff psychedelic 1:15:14.320 --> 1:15:20.360 first Um. Um what else? Um, there's a band in 1:15:20.439 --> 1:15:22.720 the Australia that I produced with Noise Works. We were 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:29.000 quite big um so um yeah, yeah, you get a 1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:32.880 percentage of the Stones records. No, no, I did get 1:15:33.520 --> 1:15:35.920 I did at one time. I got half of a penny, 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:38.880 half of the US penny and I kind of cashed 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:44.040 it in, um because well that's my next question. Did 1:15:44.120 --> 1:15:46.480 you sell it back to them and all your royalties 1:15:46.560 --> 1:15:48.519 do you still own or did you cash those? Now? 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:50.840 I keep I still don't know my royalties. But a 1:15:50.920 --> 1:15:53.840 long time ago, UM, I just got into such a 1:15:53.960 --> 1:15:57.240 bitter place with the Stones for not being offered or 1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:02.160 given a worldy apart from that half of any um, 1:16:03.240 --> 1:16:05.080 I just wanted to get rid of the kind of 1:16:05.680 --> 1:16:07.640 I don't know. I just wanted to get rid of 1:16:07.720 --> 1:16:12.480 that feeling, um that I hadn't been kind of respected 1:16:12.640 --> 1:16:15.320 or I was respected, but I didn't feel as if 1:16:15.320 --> 1:16:17.360 I was really part of the team as it were. 1:16:18.320 --> 1:16:20.840 I think they, you know, they realized the new I 1:16:20.960 --> 1:16:23.280 brought a lot to the table for them in terms 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:27.960 of sound and production, you know, capturing it and keeping 1:16:28.000 --> 1:16:29.800 it going when time was really hard for them, like 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:32.680 tattoo you when they weren't talking to each other, um, 1:16:33.200 --> 1:16:36.560 and and there was no one really there, you know, 1:16:37.120 --> 1:16:39.800 fighting for me. I mean I was, you know, just 1:16:40.200 --> 1:16:43.000 in love with my profession what I did, and um, 1:16:43.360 --> 1:16:46.120 it was only you know, after the fact, you know, 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:48.640 you sit back and go, well, hey, those guys are 1:16:48.680 --> 1:16:51.920 getting three percent, they're getting a percentage, and they're doing 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.599 bugger all. I've done twice as much more than they've 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:58.600 ever done, and I'm not getting anything. So but I 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:01.080 learned to kind of, you know, just ditch all that 1:17:01.240 --> 1:17:03.840 and forget about it, because that's not That's not what 1:17:03.960 --> 1:17:06.640 it's about. It's about making the music. And if you 1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:10.519 live with that bitterness and that contempt around you, you're 1:17:10.520 --> 1:17:13.519 a miserable person. And a lot of books that I've 1:17:13.560 --> 1:17:17.120 read by producer engineers, that's that's the basis of the book. 1:17:17.680 --> 1:17:20.240 Um um um. I am going to write a book. 1:17:20.320 --> 1:17:22.599 My book will be nothing like that. I mean, I've 1:17:22.640 --> 1:17:26.639 got so many great, great funny stories about every album 1:17:26.640 --> 1:17:29.120 I've ever made. I think that are really just fun 1:17:29.160 --> 1:17:33.840 to talk about and to rediscover. Okay, other than investments, 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:39.960 does enough money come in from royalties to live on UM. No, no, 1:17:40.360 --> 1:17:46.080 definitely not not with streaming UM and UM, I mean 1:17:46.160 --> 1:17:49.560 I I started my own little digital label earlier this 1:17:49.720 --> 1:17:54.880 year because during COVID, I I did, you know, I've 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:56.519 always been a little bit of a writer, So I 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:59.599 did in writing with Robert Hart Gary Granger some years ago, 1:18:00.640 --> 1:18:03.760 maybe ten years ago, which we never came out. And 1:18:03.880 --> 1:18:08.080 then during Lockdown there was a musician who got in 1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:10.040 touch with me. Funny enough, he was a fan of 1:18:10.120 --> 1:18:14.439 Peters UM and that's how he found me on my 1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:17.720 website and I kind of nurtured him and helped him 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.200 in songwriting, and then he got to the point where 1:18:20.600 --> 1:18:23.120 I went, who I really like where this is going 1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:27.560 out lyrically? UM. So we kind of joined together and 1:18:27.720 --> 1:18:31.080 we would co write you know, the songs, UM. And 1:18:31.240 --> 1:18:34.560 then we actually we made about and this is just 1:18:34.640 --> 1:18:38.160 the two he's he's programming and playing everything. I'm adding 1:18:38.240 --> 1:18:41.000 some stuff over here. But it's the type of album 1:18:41.000 --> 1:18:44.479 I've never made before. UM. But I did enjoy doing 1:18:44.560 --> 1:18:48.040 it because you know, I couldn't go to a studio, 1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:50.479 so I had to do something keep it in so 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:54.679 UM and then UM, you know, we've actually finished about 1:18:54.720 --> 1:18:57.880 four albums and so a very good friend of mine, 1:18:57.960 --> 1:19:00.760 Robin Miller said, rob is that she said, just do 1:19:00.920 --> 1:19:03.000 your own digital little label, do it with a wall. 1:19:03.520 --> 1:19:06.680 So I set it all up and it was very 1:19:06.720 --> 1:19:08.960 lucky to come up with the name Undercover Music, so 1:19:09.160 --> 1:19:10.880 there's a bit of a link to the Stones, which 1:19:10.960 --> 1:19:15.240 was cool. Um, and then started releasing stuff on that 1:19:15.560 --> 1:19:20.200 and then I was I just found how hard it 1:19:20.400 --> 1:19:23.799 is to be a musician out there today, because unless 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:27.599 you've got some kind of link to someone who's got 1:19:27.840 --> 1:19:31.360 such a huge social network presence, it's like you might 1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:34.519 as well be basking. I mean, it is really tough. 1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:37.160 I mean I think I've got something like two thousand 1:19:37.240 --> 1:19:40.320 Facebook followers, so of course they were all alerted. But 1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:43.599 even so, the streaming income is just, you know, it's 1:19:43.680 --> 1:19:46.840 quite sad, and I kind of thinking, I was thinking, wow, 1:19:47.120 --> 1:19:49.479 if I've just you know, there's been a thousand streams 1:19:49.520 --> 1:19:53.640 today that could have related to maybe like back in 1:19:53.720 --> 1:19:56.519 the day, like maybe four hundred singles sales, you know, 1:19:57.000 --> 1:20:01.880 physical sales. So um it sets them my wondering about stuff. 1:20:02.000 --> 1:20:10.480 But um um, but I do think that the musicians 1:20:10.560 --> 1:20:12.680 do have a better chance of getting their stuff out 1:20:12.760 --> 1:20:15.080 there now there's so many more platforms, but how they 1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:17.680 get it noticed and picked up is another thing. Um. 1:20:18.360 --> 1:20:20.799 And you know, I'm not a Twitter, I'm not on Instagram, 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:26.040 I'm not I'm not in that. I have a young 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:29.280 student from Kingston University who said, I'll do all that 1:20:29.400 --> 1:20:31.080 for you, so he does it for me. Bet him. 1:20:31.760 --> 1:20:35.559 But it's still, you know, it's very low key compared 1:20:35.600 --> 1:20:38.640 to everything else that's going on. But but the satisfaction 1:20:38.720 --> 1:20:40.960 of doing it and getting it out there is much. 1:20:41.280 --> 1:20:43.720 You know, it's bigger and better than anything. Um. And 1:20:43.800 --> 1:20:46.560 I enjoy doing the videos. I enjoyed doing the the 1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:48.719 artwork for the covers because I always do a digital 1:20:49.000 --> 1:20:54.280 booklet upload um. And then and then the last album 1:20:54.360 --> 1:20:57.880 I released was my wife's album, which we discovered in 1:20:58.000 --> 1:21:02.800 Lockdown because she made some recordings back in nineteen seventies 1:21:02.920 --> 1:21:07.799 seven and seventy nine. UM and I put those together 1:21:07.920 --> 1:21:10.960 and put that album out and one of the tracks 1:21:11.040 --> 1:21:13.479 on there with with Alvin and Mick Ralph's Salving the 1:21:13.600 --> 1:21:16.800 Mick Ralph's Um. The rest of the album is with 1:21:17.040 --> 1:21:20.320 musicians from a band called Carrillo Frank Carrillo at the 1:21:20.400 --> 1:21:23.720 time a long View Farm. We recalled it a long 1:21:23.840 --> 1:21:28.519 View farm UM and I also discovered six thousand and 1:21:28.600 --> 1:21:32.080 thirty five minute meter slides as I was really keen photographer, 1:21:32.080 --> 1:21:36.040 so used a lot of those photos from the sessions UM. 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:40.240 And we also had a track where UM, Christie and 1:21:40.400 --> 1:21:44.559 Keith did a duet together. UM. We were in Compass 1:21:44.680 --> 1:21:49.439 Point working on Undercover and Keith wanted to do it. 1:21:49.600 --> 1:21:53.800 Did this version of UM, Let's Go Steady Again, which 1:21:53.920 --> 1:21:58.479 was Sam cook it back in the day. And and Keith, 1:21:58.600 --> 1:22:01.080 you know new Christie's was singer because he'd heard the 1:22:01.160 --> 1:22:05.360 thing before and and he said, you get your wife in, 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:08.880 she's got a sing on this, and as she did. UM. 1:22:09.360 --> 1:22:14.040 And it was a wonderful moment actually of Keith when 1:22:14.760 --> 1:22:17.600 I approached his management and said, look, Christie's putting the 1:22:17.720 --> 1:22:20.080 album out, we'd love to include that duet on it. 1:22:20.200 --> 1:22:22.160 It's been you know, it's on bootleg, it's been out 1:22:22.200 --> 1:22:25.800 there on YouTube. At first management said no, and then 1:22:26.200 --> 1:22:28.479 two weeks they did. Keith piped in and said yep, 1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.960 you could use it. So that that was a wonderful 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:35.720 thing that he did for her really, quite specially now 1:22:35.840 --> 1:22:40.760 mentioning her engineers not to mention everybody on that side 1:22:40.800 --> 1:22:42.639 of the desk or afraid where they're going to get 1:22:42.680 --> 1:22:46.000 their next gig, and they tend to work around the clock, 1:22:46.560 --> 1:22:50.760 and it's hard to have relationships and hard to maintain relationships. 1:22:51.320 --> 1:22:53.920 How many times have you been married, And you've been 1:22:53.960 --> 1:22:56.560 married to this lady for a long time, how do 1:22:56.680 --> 1:22:59.720 you sustain that doing all your work? Tend to be 1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:02.160 well not now people work during the day, but in 1:23:02.240 --> 1:23:04.640 the old days were working at night. And do you 1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:07.559 have any children? How did you maintain a family life? Well, 1:23:07.880 --> 1:23:12.080 we've been married forty one years, but um, that's a 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:16.040 success story. Yeah, yeah, that's a platinum album there. And 1:23:17.080 --> 1:23:20.519 I've only been married once. We have two children, a 1:23:20.600 --> 1:23:25.200 son and a daughter. Um, and we're a very happy family, 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:30.639 very happy. And um, I was blessed because the woman 1:23:30.720 --> 1:23:34.600 that I married it was my biggest fan, um and 1:23:35.240 --> 1:23:38.519 is still my biggest fan today. And of course I'm 1:23:38.560 --> 1:23:40.920 a huge fan of hers as well. I mean, we 1:23:41.080 --> 1:23:43.400 did meet in the studio. We met at Hook and 1:23:44.000 --> 1:23:47.280 Alvin the studio because she was staying with Alvin and 1:23:47.360 --> 1:23:51.080 Susanne at the time doing some vocals on some Mick 1:23:51.200 --> 1:23:55.360 Ralph's stuff, and so of course I fell in love 1:23:55.439 --> 1:23:58.920 with her voice as well. Um. And then she's from Minnesota, 1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:01.760 but she she was living in England a long long 1:24:01.840 --> 1:24:04.680 time ago, and that's never never moved back to Minnesota. 1:24:05.080 --> 1:24:09.800 UM and so UM, yeah, it's been it still is 1:24:09.840 --> 1:24:13.680 an incredible journey with the woman that I met all 1:24:13.720 --> 1:24:16.240 that time ago. And and what's really special about it 1:24:16.360 --> 1:24:18.880 is actually is that all the bands that I've ever 1:24:18.960 --> 1:24:22.920 worked through, UM, they know and love her as well, 1:24:23.160 --> 1:24:25.760 you know, they there's a respect for both of us there. 1:24:27.040 --> 1:24:30.320 I'm very fortunate in so much as every every band 1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:33.759 of musician I think I've ever worked with, UM, there's 1:24:33.960 --> 1:24:37.880 never been a really ugly falling out moment. I mean, 1:24:38.200 --> 1:24:40.800 I'm not that type of person. I mean, you know, 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.160 the whole thing with the business side is a little 1:24:43.200 --> 1:24:47.120 bit different sometimes UM, as I discussed earlier. But even so, 1:24:47.800 --> 1:24:50.600 you get through those moments and you're still you know, 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:53.559 when you see friends, even if I was to see 1:24:54.080 --> 1:24:56.599 Mick or Keith in the street, you know, it's still 1:24:56.800 --> 1:24:59.200 a good feeling. It's a good vibe. But I actually 1:24:59.240 --> 1:25:01.599 bumped into Do and event last week because they were 1:25:01.680 --> 1:25:06.800 Olympic doing some interviews for their new album, and it 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:08.599 was so it was as if I just saw them 1:25:08.600 --> 1:25:11.200 about two weeks ago. I mean that's it's nice guys anyway, 1:25:11.240 --> 1:25:15.400 they really are um, um, you know, really sort of 1:25:15.439 --> 1:25:18.400 the earth guys and uh, and just a lot of 1:25:18.479 --> 1:25:21.920 love and respect of what we do. That's the main thing. Okay, 1:25:22.000 --> 1:25:24.560 let's talk about the stone to come back from recording 1:25:25.120 --> 1:25:28.360 and finishing for him. It comes alive. You get the 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:31.599 call for some girls, you end up working for them 1:25:32.280 --> 1:25:34.760 for you know, for your stuff comes out, like for 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:38.000 fourteen or fifteen years. So what was the experience working 1:25:38.080 --> 1:25:44.200 with the starts? UM? Well, I was actually I was. 1:25:45.240 --> 1:25:49.720 I was surprised how little um they were coming into 1:25:49.760 --> 1:25:52.839 the control. In fact, Charlie never came into the control, 1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:55.559 when Bill hardly came into the control and mc keith 1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:00.360 well occasionally come into control. And but after I set 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:03.400 up in Paris, um, you know, like the first week 1:26:03.680 --> 1:26:06.599 and got a sound together UM and had things as 1:26:06.680 --> 1:26:10.679 I wanted it, and um, they came in to listen 1:26:10.800 --> 1:26:13.519 for one playback and then they just looked at each 1:26:13.560 --> 1:26:16.759 other kind of like nodded. I didn't say really anything 1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:20.400 to me, UM, And then I just kept recording UM 1:26:20.560 --> 1:26:24.120 and logging everything, and you know, I talked to them 1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:29.040 about sounds. You know, guitar sounds sometime or parts or whatever, 1:26:29.160 --> 1:26:32.040 but not a lot. But it was really keeping my 1:26:32.160 --> 1:26:34.639 eye on the ball to make sure everything was going 1:26:34.720 --> 1:26:37.200 down when it should go down, or or if I 1:26:37.320 --> 1:26:40.360 felt that a track was really not happening, you know, 1:26:40.479 --> 1:26:42.639 I'd say, guys, I think you should change and try 1:26:42.720 --> 1:26:48.080 something else now. Um. But um it was. It was 1:26:48.160 --> 1:26:51.120 a really like a big football team in a way, um, 1:26:51.920 --> 1:26:54.439 because it was only as strong as you know, the 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:57.960 whole team on the pitch really um and some girls. 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.920 Was a really interesting period because because of keith situation 1:27:02.120 --> 1:27:06.519 with the Canadian um um. You know he might have 1:27:06.600 --> 1:27:10.760 gone to prison um so and he was still using 1:27:10.800 --> 1:27:13.120 at the time as well, So there was a there 1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:19.639 was interesting shift of power. I realized now where Mick 1:27:20.120 --> 1:27:24.360 was was, you know, could have in control a lot more. 1:27:25.600 --> 1:27:31.320 But but incredibly supportive to Keith. Incredibly supportive. You know, 1:27:31.439 --> 1:27:35.000 he wasn't stripping him down that you know, he because 1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:38.479 Keith would disappear for a couple of hours to the bathroom, um, 1:27:38.720 --> 1:27:40.040 you know, in the middle of a session and then 1:27:40.120 --> 1:27:42.680 come back, or you know I did see him might 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:46.960 nod off a few times with the guitar sound, so um, 1:27:47.120 --> 1:27:50.160 so Mick was incredibly supportive. And then then kind of 1:27:50.280 --> 1:27:53.280 Keith suddenly woke up from it all and but that 1:27:53.479 --> 1:27:57.040 the thought that that might be the last Stones or 1:27:57.120 --> 1:27:59.560 the last recording with Jaggon and Richards for quite some 1:27:59.720 --> 1:28:03.760 time him. I think that really gave the album a 1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:09.360 special energy um which and being in Paris was wonderful 1:28:09.400 --> 1:28:11.320 as well. It's a great city for them to work in. 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:17.080 And the studio um was it was very basic, but 1:28:17.240 --> 1:28:19.320 in a great year my t G one two three 1:28:19.360 --> 1:28:22.760 four five console um which is a great sounding old 1:28:22.800 --> 1:28:26.040 console um and that helped a lot. That is the 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:30.120 sound of those records act. Okay, now there are all 1:28:30.160 --> 1:28:33.360 these stories about the Stones. They right in the studio, 1:28:33.920 --> 1:28:37.600 they might excavate something from years before. How did the 1:28:37.720 --> 1:28:43.920 songs ultimately come to be on some girls? Uh? Well 1:28:44.040 --> 1:28:45.880 some girls all the songs with it in the studio 1:28:45.960 --> 1:28:48.960 pretty much. That's why I took about a year to recall. 1:28:49.120 --> 1:28:52.800 So what's what's that actually like? Never mind the cost, Well, 1:28:52.880 --> 1:28:54.880 the cost wasn't that bad because make had done a 1:28:54.960 --> 1:28:57.960 deal with the studio. He got the cheapest studio in 1:28:58.120 --> 1:29:00.519 Patio Marconi. There were three rooms and he picked the 1:29:00.560 --> 1:29:05.639 cheapest one. Um, until it got to the point where, UM, 1:29:06.800 --> 1:29:09.160 where he thought it would be better if we moved 1:29:09.200 --> 1:29:11.680 into the NIV room because there was a more expensive 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:15.040 need room. But I loved the sound of the ear 1:29:15.120 --> 1:29:17.599 my console. The control room in the ear my room 1:29:18.280 --> 1:29:21.559 was tiny. You couldn't get more than four people in there. Um, 1:29:21.840 --> 1:29:25.040 and I quite like that too, So UM, I really 1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:27.599 stuck up to stay in that studio. And Keith loved 1:29:27.640 --> 1:29:29.960 the sound in that studio too, so we didn't move. 1:29:30.040 --> 1:29:33.479 We stayed in the cheaper studio. So I don't think 1:29:33.520 --> 1:29:37.280 the cost was that, you know, was what It wasn't 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:39.640 anything like, you know, two thousand bucks a day. It 1:29:39.720 --> 1:29:41.320 was more like that two hundred bucks a day, and 1:29:41.400 --> 1:29:47.320 it's really cheap. So but it was a situation where, um, 1:29:47.920 --> 1:29:50.840 you know, Michael Keith would come in with a song 1:29:51.280 --> 1:29:53.599 that you know, the basics of a song, a bit 1:29:53.640 --> 1:29:56.400 of a verse riff and a chorus riff, and then 1:29:56.640 --> 1:29:59.040 you know, just played them through with the other members 1:29:59.040 --> 1:30:00.639 of the band, played them through and through and through 1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:04.679 and try different fields, different grooves on them, different tempos, 1:30:05.360 --> 1:30:08.960 until you know you'd find one that's all of a 1:30:09.000 --> 1:30:12.120 sudden everybody went, oh, that's it. Let's stick with that 1:30:12.439 --> 1:30:15.160 that way, that's the way to do it. Um. Um. 1:30:15.920 --> 1:30:18.840 It took a lot of you know, a lot of 1:30:19.040 --> 1:30:22.599 logging from my point of view, to log every song, 1:30:23.080 --> 1:30:28.240 every song title, every take um. Um. So but it 1:30:28.400 --> 1:30:30.759 was a long process. It was a really long process. 1:30:31.240 --> 1:30:34.600 Um Um. I think we must have been there for 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:37.479 some Girls Gosh, I think we might have been there 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:39.640 for that four months, maybe five months. It was a 1:30:39.760 --> 1:30:43.800 long time. Um. But in doing that, you know, not 1:30:43.960 --> 1:30:46.799 only did we recalled some Girls album, but we recorded 1:30:47.040 --> 1:30:49.680 a lot of tattoo you as well. Um. You know 1:30:49.720 --> 1:30:52.720 a lot of tracks from that period um ended up 1:30:52.760 --> 1:30:57.479 on other albums. Okay, So are you keeping the tape 1:30:57.520 --> 1:31:00.320 machine running the whole time or only when they're doing takes? 1:31:00.920 --> 1:31:04.599 Oh no, there's no discussion of are we doing a take? 1:31:05.320 --> 1:31:09.519 They're just performing and I'm recording. There's there's never no 1:31:09.640 --> 1:31:13.160 one ever says, okay, let's do one. No, that didn't happen. No, 1:31:13.680 --> 1:31:15.680 It's just you keep your eye on the ball. You 1:31:15.800 --> 1:31:18.960 get a feel for what's happening in the room. Um, 1:31:19.479 --> 1:31:22.320 and you have to kind of really be connected with 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:26.960 it and second guess it so that you know that Okay, 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:30.519 somebody's gonna happen. Make sure we're running UM and you 1:31:30.640 --> 1:31:35.719 get it. So, if you're recording everything, you know, tape 1:31:35.880 --> 1:31:37.880 is big and expensive. Do you ever say, well, there's 1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:41.840 nothing on this real I'm gonna record over it. Um. Yeah, 1:31:42.000 --> 1:31:44.640 maybe a little bit, but it wasn't very often that 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:47.800 there was nothing on it UM. And I was running 1:31:47.840 --> 1:31:51.400 at fifteen i p s. So you know that that's 1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:54.400 a lot of minutes. It's not like thirty ips. We've 1:31:54.439 --> 1:31:57.280 only got eighteen minutes. It's more than that. So but 1:31:57.479 --> 1:32:00.599 we did. Yeah, I think we must have elected about 1:32:00.680 --> 1:32:04.280 four hundred ls of tape UM, which was which was 1:32:04.400 --> 1:32:06.160 quite interesting when you'd have to ship it all to 1:32:06.280 --> 1:32:10.120 New York to work and do some overdubs. Obviously you 1:32:10.120 --> 1:32:13.479 wouldn't ship the whole four hundred rills, but it was 1:32:13.600 --> 1:32:16.960 definitely like eight riels that you chip over UM. So 1:32:17.479 --> 1:32:19.800 there's a big trunk of tape coming over to the 1:32:19.880 --> 1:32:23.920 States for sure. Okay, at the time, Miss You was 1:32:24.040 --> 1:32:27.479 seen as a disco song playing to disco. What was 1:32:27.520 --> 1:32:32.840 going on? How did that get created? Well? Um? Bill 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:38.920 loved UM. He loved the club scene in Paris regimes. 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:41.640 Glad of remember the name of the club. There was 1:32:41.680 --> 1:32:44.599 a club called Regimes that he would go to. Um 1:32:45.080 --> 1:32:47.720 and you know it was it was it was at 1:32:47.760 --> 1:32:51.640 the good time of what I called disco before I 1:32:51.720 --> 1:32:55.679 think before it became digitized, and it was musicians playing 1:32:55.960 --> 1:33:00.479 a lot of it. Um and um, I know that 1:33:00.920 --> 1:33:04.360 I fondly remember that Bill Um. You know, that whole 1:33:04.439 --> 1:33:08.920 baseline was Bill's invention and that was really that was 1:33:09.000 --> 1:33:12.280 the driving force of the song really. Um. So that 1:33:12.439 --> 1:33:14.320 was a great you know, it was a great moment 1:33:14.400 --> 1:33:19.160 for Bill um. And yeah I missed Bill. I mean 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:22.120 I missed him in the Stones ex it um. So 1:33:23.479 --> 1:33:25.519 yeah that that record was one of the type and 1:33:25.600 --> 1:33:30.719 it wasn't like a cheesy disco song either. Yeah. Yeah, 1:33:30.920 --> 1:33:36.120 and um when whenever whenever, Mick you know, adds a 1:33:36.200 --> 1:33:38.600 bit of narrative in the song, like talking like he 1:33:38.720 --> 1:33:44.720 did it just exactly. It just adds, you know, this 1:33:44.920 --> 1:33:48.040 wonderful imagery to it without a picture, and that's what 1:33:48.160 --> 1:33:50.920 he does. So well, that's what you know, that's always 1:33:50.960 --> 1:33:54.560 what I loved about his his lyrics and his performance 1:33:54.600 --> 1:33:57.759 as well. I mean, working with Miking the studio is working. 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.400 It's like watching a prize fight about on the microphone 1:34:01.439 --> 1:34:04.640 because he you know, he'll he'll do his warm up exercises. 1:34:04.720 --> 1:34:07.160 He makes sure he's fit before he sings you know, 1:34:07.439 --> 1:34:10.960 one word um, because he has the pair and the 1:34:11.080 --> 1:34:14.720 energy to keep going. And also he's dancing all the 1:34:14.800 --> 1:34:16.920 time he's singing, you know, until it's time to be 1:34:17.080 --> 1:34:19.200 on mike, and then he's right in front of the 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:23.560 microphone on it. Um. Yeah, kind of the opposite the 1:34:23.640 --> 1:34:29.040 key Keith let's straight all over the room singing so um. 1:34:29.320 --> 1:34:33.240 It's quite funny. The two of them is lovely. Okay. 1:34:34.400 --> 1:34:36.920 My favorite other other than Issue on that album is 1:34:37.000 --> 1:34:40.400 rarely mentioned when the Whip comes down, but the track 1:34:40.640 --> 1:34:43.639 that constantly you know, goes on there's Waiting for a Friend. 1:34:43.720 --> 1:34:47.240 But forget that Shattered. How did Shattered come back? Yeah? 1:34:47.720 --> 1:34:51.720 I think that's the first because at that period, I 1:34:51.720 --> 1:34:57.280 remember Keith getting two guitar pedals. Um. So I remember 1:34:57.360 --> 1:35:00.160 that the guitar amps. Everyone was playing through boogie the 1:35:00.240 --> 1:35:05.080 fires which were really loud, I mean really loud um, 1:35:05.400 --> 1:35:07.800 and I would have to go down and turn them 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:11.720 down sometimes because um, the way I set did up 1:35:11.800 --> 1:35:14.720 was like in a semi circle, and and I put 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:17.360 a small p a up so people could hear mixing 1:35:17.880 --> 1:35:19.800 to get an idea of you know, where the vocal 1:35:19.920 --> 1:35:24.040 was and the melody, rather than news headphones which worked 1:35:24.080 --> 1:35:26.040 to treat but if the guitar has got too loud 1:35:26.080 --> 1:35:28.680 and you couldn't hear the p a um. So. But 1:35:28.920 --> 1:35:31.320 Keith got two pedals at that time. One was an 1:35:31.439 --> 1:35:34.840 m XR phaser and the other one was the m 1:35:35.000 --> 1:35:38.479 x R analog delay, and that's what's on Shattered and 1:35:38.600 --> 1:35:41.640 it was that that whole kind of you know, he 1:35:41.800 --> 1:35:44.519 was kind of messing around with that riff, and then 1:35:44.600 --> 1:35:47.240 the pedal came along and we said, oh, let's try 1:35:47.280 --> 1:35:49.640 the pedal on this, and he went, wow, I let 1:35:49.720 --> 1:35:51.920 you know. And I think in a sense it took 1:35:52.000 --> 1:35:57.400 him back to maybe like um um, the Everly Brothers 1:35:58.080 --> 1:36:01.320 sound or something you know of his favorite you know, 1:36:01.439 --> 1:36:05.280 records in his past that because he was he would 1:36:05.280 --> 1:36:08.880 give you the most amazing mixtapes, mainly of reggae, a 1:36:08.960 --> 1:36:11.880 lot of reggae stuff or Hank Williams, you know, a 1:36:12.000 --> 1:36:15.680 mixture of reggae, Hank Williams Everly Brother's buddy Holly. And 1:36:15.840 --> 1:36:19.240 he was always giving me mixed mixtapes, which is fantastic. Um, 1:36:19.800 --> 1:36:23.240 I kind of could hear that from the Shattered riff? Um? 1:36:24.320 --> 1:36:27.800 Uh yeah, because it's quite It's a very different song 1:36:27.920 --> 1:36:32.160 in every way in its arrangement and mixed vocals on it. 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:36.640 Uh yeah, it's um but it was a song that's um. 1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:39.680 I mean it always you know Jagger Richards, but um, 1:36:40.479 --> 1:36:43.280 some are more Richards than Jagger, some are more jagged 1:36:43.320 --> 1:36:46.040 than Richards. Um. And that to me was more of 1:36:46.520 --> 1:36:51.200 a Keith song. We're mixed singing on the top. Okay, 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:53.080 I made a mistake waiting on a friend is on 1:36:53.200 --> 1:36:57.040 Tattoo You. Tattoo You, of course has the iconic start 1:36:57.160 --> 1:36:59.400 me up, but you were saying it was a fraud 1:36:59.479 --> 1:37:03.280 experience as the Dagon Richards had issues. So tell me 1:37:03.320 --> 1:37:07.920 about the making of Tattoo You. Um. Well, UM, I 1:37:08.080 --> 1:37:11.200 can't remember now what the circumstances were. More likely that 1:37:11.280 --> 1:37:13.840 Mick had dona solo album or he was getting into 1:37:13.920 --> 1:37:17.880 being a film producer. Um. But Mick and Keith were 1:37:17.920 --> 1:37:20.680 not on talking terms, not on good terms at all, 1:37:20.760 --> 1:37:24.000 and it came to the point where they needed an 1:37:24.040 --> 1:37:27.280 album and Prince Rupert Lowenstein, who was the manager at 1:37:27.320 --> 1:37:30.479 the time, approached me and said, Chris, you know of 1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:33.160 any tracks that might be around that we could use 1:37:33.240 --> 1:37:35.519 to put out. And I said, well, yeah, I know, 1:37:36.000 --> 1:37:38.720 because I still got like a photographic memory. I knew 1:37:38.760 --> 1:37:41.439 a lot of tracks that I'd recorded on the Emotional 1:37:41.520 --> 1:37:45.080 Rescue and some girls that hadn't been released and hadn't 1:37:45.120 --> 1:37:49.479 been used. So UM, I said, if I know of that, 1:37:49.880 --> 1:37:52.120 there's six or seven that I know of. I said, 1:37:52.280 --> 1:37:54.320 I'm pretty sure there'll be some others in the vaults. 1:37:54.600 --> 1:37:58.040 So UM, I spent three months going through all of 1:37:58.160 --> 1:38:01.880 their all of their tapes and kind of put together 1:38:02.120 --> 1:38:06.240 a selection of songs to send them to listen to. UM. 1:38:06.840 --> 1:38:10.720 And it took a while to get the feedback, but UM, 1:38:11.040 --> 1:38:13.160 over a period of time it came back that we 1:38:13.280 --> 1:38:15.680 honed it down to you know the songs that are 1:38:15.760 --> 1:38:19.560 on Tattoo today. Um. The only thing I had to 1:38:19.640 --> 1:38:22.519 do really was to get Mick to finished vocals because 1:38:22.720 --> 1:38:26.000 on a lot of them the vocals weren't complete. Um, 1:38:26.240 --> 1:38:29.240 there were vocals, but lyrically they might not be complete, 1:38:29.320 --> 1:38:31.320 or is just repeating the same verse because he hadn't 1:38:31.360 --> 1:38:34.840 written the verse or whatever. So UM, Mick did take 1:38:35.280 --> 1:38:36.760 It took a while to get him to complete the 1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:39.200 vocals and and we ended up doing most of the 1:38:39.280 --> 1:38:43.559 vocals in the strangest situation. Um. We had the rolling 1:38:43.600 --> 1:38:47.519 Stones mobile in Paris and I remember it being winter 1:38:47.760 --> 1:38:51.639 for sure, um. And for some reason, UM, he chose 1:38:51.680 --> 1:38:53.680 to do them in a warehouse next to a like 1:38:53.800 --> 1:38:57.519 a train depot station where they washed all the trains 1:38:57.680 --> 1:39:00.160 on the edge of the periphery. So we're at in 1:39:00.240 --> 1:39:05.839 the middle of nowhere doing vocals in the stones mobile. Um. Anyway, 1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:08.479 we finished all the vocals, we got those done, um. 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:11.920 And then Charlie had the idea to put sunny ronnings 1:39:11.960 --> 1:39:17.320 on neighbors um and got that finished. Yeah. And then 1:39:18.120 --> 1:39:22.040 but I think I can safely say if if if 1:39:22.080 --> 1:39:25.040 it hadn't been for me knowing where the things were 1:39:25.320 --> 1:39:28.719 and knowing what was there, um and putting it all together, 1:39:28.880 --> 1:39:32.840 it wouldn't have happened. Well. The funny thing is, but 1:39:33.040 --> 1:39:35.920 that I'm an agreement that is considered to be the 1:39:36.080 --> 1:39:39.960 last great phenomenal album. It's gotten a lot of respect 1:39:40.080 --> 1:39:43.000 forty years. Hence it's kind of interesting it is. I mean, 1:39:43.120 --> 1:39:45.040 it's got a lot of and what I love about 1:39:45.120 --> 1:39:49.600 the album is that you don't get the impression that 1:39:49.760 --> 1:39:54.120 it's songs from different albums. It's he It sounds like 1:39:54.200 --> 1:39:58.280 a purpose written album, which in a way always bugged me. 1:39:58.520 --> 1:40:01.599 I think you know, he, you know, Meet never likes 1:40:01.640 --> 1:40:04.479 to go back anytime, so you know, it was it 1:40:04.640 --> 1:40:06.160 was it was a bit of a chance to get it, 1:40:06.560 --> 1:40:08.760 get it, you know, for him to to finish it 1:40:08.840 --> 1:40:12.320 in that way. So, but it is. Um. I wish 1:40:12.360 --> 1:40:14.680 I could remember whose genius idea it was to have 1:40:14.760 --> 1:40:17.400 the fast side and the slow side, because that really 1:40:17.600 --> 1:40:20.519 adds to the album. I mean, it's that's a it's 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:22.880 almost like a concept album in that way. It really 1:40:22.920 --> 1:40:25.880 adds to it. Um. And also it's a buzz for 1:40:25.960 --> 1:40:27.479 me because I get to play on one song. I 1:40:27.560 --> 1:40:30.760 get to play on Heaven as well. Um. It was, 1:40:30.880 --> 1:40:33.160 you know, a moment of waiting for the rest of 1:40:33.200 --> 1:40:36.200 the band to come and there's me, Mick, Um and 1:40:36.439 --> 1:40:39.040 Charlie and no one else, and so I just walked 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:41.200 out and start playing the electric piano with Mick while 1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:44.200 he's you know, putting down Heaven. How did you know 1:40:44.320 --> 1:40:46.320 how to play the piano to take lessons as a kid, 1:40:46.439 --> 1:40:53.320 I taught myself. Yeah, what age twelve? And you did 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:56.320 you ever play in bands? No? I never played in bands. No, 1:40:56.560 --> 1:40:59.880 but I you know, I've played on some records, not many, 1:41:00.280 --> 1:41:02.800 and I've written quite a few songs as well. Um 1:41:03.240 --> 1:41:07.639 so yeah, okay, so start me Up. That was sitting 1:41:07.680 --> 1:41:11.920 down the floor from the Some Girls album. Yeah, because 1:41:12.280 --> 1:41:15.439 that that song had been around in black and Blue 1:41:15.520 --> 1:41:18.600 time as a reggae song. I mean, Keith, that was 1:41:18.720 --> 1:41:22.120 Keith's song. That it was, it was, you know, I 1:41:22.280 --> 1:41:26.200 found out in Uncovering Everything that it started life as 1:41:26.200 --> 1:41:30.120 a reggae song. But the day that we recorded it 1:41:30.360 --> 1:41:32.519 in Paris as the version that we all know and 1:41:32.640 --> 1:41:37.400 love today, quite a remarkable thing happened because it wasn't 1:41:37.479 --> 1:41:39.879 very often. In fact, I can't think of another occasion 1:41:40.400 --> 1:41:44.519 where you would recalled a song with the Stones and 1:41:44.640 --> 1:41:47.800 that was the master. So because you know, it was 1:41:47.880 --> 1:41:50.639 a big, big lead up to getting a final master. 1:41:50.720 --> 1:41:54.280 As I discussed earlier about different arrangements, different dempo's, different styles. 1:41:54.720 --> 1:41:58.200 So this day we actually nail miss You, that's the 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:02.080 day we'll recalled miss You. And then Keith launched him 1:42:02.120 --> 1:42:05.240 to start me Up, but with a completely different rhythm, 1:42:05.360 --> 1:42:08.439 not reggae at all, and it's the rhythm that we're 1:42:08.479 --> 1:42:12.400 here today and that song, the version the Master of 1:42:12.479 --> 1:42:16.360 Startup was recorded the same day as Miss You. Um. 1:42:16.760 --> 1:42:21.240 It was never known that to happen before. Um and 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:24.479 so um. They did come in and listen to it, 1:42:25.200 --> 1:42:28.600 and Keith said to me, he said, he said, no, 1:42:28.960 --> 1:42:30.920 I don't like it. It reminds me of sorry I've 1:42:30.920 --> 1:42:35.040 heard on the radio he raised it. Of course I 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:40.800 didn't raise it. I wouldn't raised anything. Um and um. Um. 1:42:41.479 --> 1:42:43.640 There's been a few times when I've been to a 1:42:43.720 --> 1:42:46.640 live concert and they will start with that song and 1:42:46.960 --> 1:42:49.679 Keith plays the wrong card, and I'm sure he doesn't 1:42:49.680 --> 1:42:54.000 because he knows I'm in the audience. I think he 1:42:54.000 --> 1:42:57.400 always wanted the reggae song to be the one. But whatever, Um, 1:42:57.680 --> 1:43:01.880 it's a fantastic song to start an album with. Okay, 1:43:01.960 --> 1:43:05.800 needle to say seventy eight some girls huge tour. There 1:43:05.840 --> 1:43:09.080 are tours, but undercover is a disappointment. But all of 1:43:09.080 --> 1:43:13.920 a sudden everything's rolled up for Wheels, which I think 1:43:14.080 --> 1:43:19.040 is quite good. Tell me about the recording of Steel Wheels, Well, Um, 1:43:19.720 --> 1:43:22.479 I've been invited back to to recording produced the band 1:43:22.560 --> 1:43:27.200 the Game because I think previously that Steve Steve Dinnyway 1:43:27.800 --> 1:43:35.280 did dirty work, um, which um, I purposefully stayed away 1:43:35.360 --> 1:43:40.280 from because after Undercover, the relationships on that album refraying. 1:43:40.560 --> 1:43:45.479 I mean my actually one of my greatest achievements is 1:43:45.560 --> 1:43:48.639 the mix of Undercover. I loved the mix of Undercover 1:43:48.720 --> 1:43:50.880 of the night. If you heard the actual multi track 1:43:51.040 --> 1:43:54.080 is nothing like what year it was. I had this 1:43:54.160 --> 1:43:57.000 whole vision in my head of how to mix that 1:43:57.160 --> 1:44:00.439 song UM and create it. And when I did it, 1:44:00.760 --> 1:44:03.000 Micke and Keith heard it separately because they wouldn't come 1:44:03.040 --> 1:44:05.559 in the room at the same time. UM and UM, 1:44:06.360 --> 1:44:08.639 and they both said to me on the separate occasion 1:44:08.640 --> 1:44:11.120 and said, great, mixed the rest of the album like that, 1:44:11.479 --> 1:44:13.560 And it was like, well, no, you can't. That's you 1:44:13.640 --> 1:44:15.679 can't do that with the rest of the songs. Although 1:44:15.760 --> 1:44:18.920 too much blood was a little bit right. So anyway, 1:44:19.000 --> 1:44:22.360 so UM not wanted to get involved in dirty work. 1:44:22.720 --> 1:44:27.360 UM UM. Steel Wheels came along and UM we had 1:44:27.400 --> 1:44:30.120 a discussion that instead of going in the studio and 1:44:30.479 --> 1:44:33.040 writing everything in the studio, that Micke and Keith should 1:44:33.080 --> 1:44:35.759 get together, and actually right before we went in the studio, 1:44:36.200 --> 1:44:39.839 so that happened. They went to Barbados to Eddie Grant's 1:44:39.880 --> 1:44:42.880 studio and hung out there for I think a month 1:44:43.439 --> 1:44:47.840 um um you know, writing the bones of the songs 1:44:47.880 --> 1:44:51.640 that we're going to be on steel Wheels, um and um. 1:44:51.800 --> 1:44:54.720 I was actually working in Monsterrat at the time with 1:44:54.920 --> 1:44:59.400 Anderson Wait for Buford Now um. So it was great 1:44:59.439 --> 1:45:03.360 because I would go over to see them in Barbados 1:45:03.479 --> 1:45:05.600 to see how they were doing at the weekend, and 1:45:05.720 --> 1:45:08.240 then come back and work with Anderson Wait for Boofing 1:45:08.280 --> 1:45:11.000 and Out. And after a couple of visits, I figured 1:45:11.040 --> 1:45:13.639 out that they needed some new blood in there. Um. 1:45:13.920 --> 1:45:16.679 And there was a young keyboard player who was working 1:45:16.880 --> 1:45:19.679 on the Anderson Wait for Booth and Now album called 1:45:19.760 --> 1:45:24.479 Matt Clifford. Matt was like John Anderson's programmer um and 1:45:24.680 --> 1:45:28.519 helped John, you know, make all the demos. So I 1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:31.360 took Matt over with me and introduced him to Mick 1:45:31.400 --> 1:45:35.439 and Keith. Uh. Mick instantly got on with Matt, loved 1:45:35.520 --> 1:45:39.320 him to bits. Keith wasn't a short um and um. 1:45:39.680 --> 1:45:42.760 So Matt would go over at weekends, um, you know, 1:45:42.920 --> 1:45:45.479 to to help them with piano barts or just you know, 1:45:45.560 --> 1:45:47.680 to get a bit more of a vibe going on. 1:45:48.560 --> 1:45:52.760 And so I remember the first weekend that Matt went over, 1:45:53.400 --> 1:45:56.320 I called him up, quite nervous, you know, saying how's 1:45:56.360 --> 1:45:58.240 it going, what's been happening, what's been happening? He said, 1:45:58.479 --> 1:46:00.479 he said what he said, I've been here twenty four 1:46:00.520 --> 1:46:03.040 hours and he said, we've met Prince so and so, 1:46:03.240 --> 1:46:06.760 Lady so and so. We haven't been to the studio yet. 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:11.360 I've been socializing with Mick. So, Um, they were after 1:46:11.400 --> 1:46:15.200 a good start. Um, and Matt's been a true friend 1:46:15.320 --> 1:46:19.400 to make ever since. Actually, I mean he's really stayed 1:46:19.479 --> 1:46:22.479 the course with them. But yeah, so it's nice to, 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:25.320 you know, put people together. I enjoy doing that a lot. 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:28.360 I mean I do put a lot of people together. 1:46:28.479 --> 1:46:32.840 I enjoy it. So so the album, okay, so the album. Yeah. 1:46:33.240 --> 1:46:37.160 So it was quite interesting going to Monteret because, um, 1:46:37.720 --> 1:46:39.960 although I love the studio, I love the island. I 1:46:40.040 --> 1:46:41.880 loved everything. I was a bit nervous about the Stones 1:46:41.960 --> 1:46:44.760 going there, knowing that they thrive on the city life, 1:46:44.840 --> 1:46:48.120 you know, their social life, Um is part always part 1:46:48.200 --> 1:46:50.720 of making a record in a way, So to be 1:46:50.840 --> 1:46:53.320 on an island for a month or six weeks or whatever, 1:46:53.360 --> 1:46:54.760 and then it was I wasn't sure I was going 1:46:54.800 --> 1:46:58.320 to pan out. It was a total opposite. It was amazing. Um. 1:46:58.680 --> 1:47:01.879 First of all, Bill, I think I just married Mandy 1:47:02.479 --> 1:47:05.320 young Mandy, so he was only too happy to be 1:47:05.479 --> 1:47:08.920 away from the paparazzi because they never got on the island, 1:47:09.360 --> 1:47:12.760 so that was a plus for him. Keith was with 1:47:12.920 --> 1:47:18.479 Patty um. Um. So the family everyone had their own 1:47:18.520 --> 1:47:21.600 little villa and the families rule with them. Um. And 1:47:22.200 --> 1:47:25.519 it was Keith who said, right, we're not working weekends. Um, 1:47:25.640 --> 1:47:30.040 We're just working Monday through Friday weekends off barbecue and swimming. Um. 1:47:30.520 --> 1:47:33.320 And that's what happened. And there was a terrific work 1:47:33.360 --> 1:47:36.840 ethic as well. We started like midday work until about 1:47:36.880 --> 1:47:39.479 seven o'clock, stopped for dinner and then go back in, 1:47:39.600 --> 1:47:41.640 but only go back in for a few hours, you know, 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:43.880 not too two or three in the morning. Um. And 1:47:43.960 --> 1:47:47.680 we got so much work done. It was absolutely a dream. UM. 1:47:47.840 --> 1:47:51.640 And I already had a I've always been working on 1:47:51.760 --> 1:47:55.360 every Stones album. I've always in my mind, in my head, 1:47:55.479 --> 1:47:58.519 I have kind of a vision of the sound, the 1:47:58.640 --> 1:48:01.280 sonic sound that I want for the band. There some 1:48:01.479 --> 1:48:05.479 girls album. Um, the Desk helped me with that No End. 1:48:05.800 --> 1:48:08.000 I mean it gave it that bite, that punk, that 1:48:08.439 --> 1:48:13.680 that kind of aggressive and electric kind of almost firework 1:48:13.760 --> 1:48:19.320 sound about it. Um. Undercover an emotional rescue. Emotional rescue 1:48:19.400 --> 1:48:22.320 led on from that, UM, but a bit more toned 1:48:22.400 --> 1:48:24.680 down because the songs were a bit more toned down. 1:48:24.920 --> 1:48:28.720 Still some great sounding songs, and Undercover was just a 1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:30.600 big challenge and I had to pull something out of 1:48:30.640 --> 1:48:33.200 the bag when undercover with the night. So when it 1:48:33.320 --> 1:48:35.560 got to come in when I got the invitation to 1:48:35.720 --> 1:48:37.720 Steel Wheels, I already had it in my mind that 1:48:38.080 --> 1:48:43.280 I wanted Steel Wheels to sound very cinematic, not like 1:48:43.439 --> 1:48:47.200 a rough and dirty Stones album, but very polished, for 1:48:47.320 --> 1:48:50.000 want of a better word, but a very you know, 1:48:51.120 --> 1:48:55.240 a very wide sounding record. UM. And the songs that 1:48:55.360 --> 1:48:59.200 they wrote for that album gave me that opportunity. UM. 1:48:59.479 --> 1:49:01.200 You know, there's a lot of backing vocals and a 1:49:01.240 --> 1:49:05.519 lot of horns, you know, as becausion. It's it's for them. 1:49:05.600 --> 1:49:09.080 It's a big production. But it doesn't sound like a 1:49:09.160 --> 1:49:12.600 ton of people. But it sounds it sounds expensive in 1:49:12.760 --> 1:49:15.400 one way. It's got a nice kind of sheen about 1:49:15.439 --> 1:49:18.080 it all. UM. And the reason I did that, it's 1:49:18.160 --> 1:49:21.680 because I was looking ahead to the next album, and 1:49:21.800 --> 1:49:24.040 the next album I wanted to do. I wanted to 1:49:24.080 --> 1:49:26.680 make it sound like Exile on Main Street. I was 1:49:26.720 --> 1:49:30.040 already planning ahead, but I never got the opportunity to 1:49:30.160 --> 1:49:34.040 do the next album because they changed labels, they changed producers. Um, 1:49:34.320 --> 1:49:36.760 and that was that. But that was my kind of 1:49:36.880 --> 1:49:41.040 focus on steel Will's. You know, the amazing thing is 1:49:41.080 --> 1:49:46.519 they're playing Slipping Away pretty much every night on this tour. Christie, 1:49:46.760 --> 1:49:51.000 I mean Christie was a big Christie. We used to 1:49:51.080 --> 1:49:53.760 sit at Key's house and I mean Keith would play 1:49:53.840 --> 1:49:56.040 that song over and over and over again and he 1:49:56.160 --> 1:49:58.519 never finished it. And I remember Christie sitting with him 1:49:58.560 --> 1:50:02.560 one night and and really kind of you know, I know, 1:50:02.760 --> 1:50:04.840 just like pushing him, saying, Keith, you've got to finish that. 1:50:04.880 --> 1:50:06.760 You've got to finish that. And then he came up 1:50:06.800 --> 1:50:09.360 with the bridge on the song and it got finished. 1:50:09.400 --> 1:50:12.639 So that's a yeah, that's a beautiful song, really beautiful song. 1:50:13.160 --> 1:50:15.960 And his vocals love you on that song too, absolutely. 1:50:16.080 --> 1:50:19.920 So how does it really end with you? In the start? Um? 1:50:20.960 --> 1:50:24.400 It ends um in a good place because so we're 1:50:24.400 --> 1:50:27.160 still really good friends with them all um, more so 1:50:27.360 --> 1:50:30.160 with Ronnie. I mean Ronnie went on to work with 1:50:30.240 --> 1:50:33.800 some solo stuff from Ronnie Um, which is great. Um. 1:50:34.880 --> 1:50:37.879 Ronnie has been a great supporter of the Olympic Cinema 1:50:38.000 --> 1:50:41.839 and studio. But he did some great artwork for me there, Charlie. 1:50:42.160 --> 1:50:47.720 I missed so much Charlie. I mean, yeah, Charlie. I 1:50:47.920 --> 1:50:52.280 just have so many wonderful memories of Charlie Um making 1:50:52.360 --> 1:50:56.960 the albums. And there's a good friend as a lovely man. Um. Bill, 1:50:58.120 --> 1:51:02.040 We're always in touch. Still love Bill and Keith. I 1:51:02.080 --> 1:51:03.680 don't see enough of because you know it's in the 1:51:03.760 --> 1:51:07.439 States nearly all the time. So um, it's very fleeting 1:51:07.479 --> 1:51:11.240 when I see Keith. But still great Mick. I haven't 1:51:11.240 --> 1:51:16.280 seen for ages um so um. But yeah, it's all 1:51:16.439 --> 1:51:20.479 very Yeah, it's all good. There's no well, I mean 1:51:20.520 --> 1:51:22.960 you do Steel Wheels, which is a real comeback tours, 1:51:23.160 --> 1:51:28.200 unbelievably successful. They just don't call you for the next record. 1:51:28.320 --> 1:51:31.479 Is that how it goes down? Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, Yeah. 1:51:31.520 --> 1:51:35.360 I think I think Mike had already, you know, because 1:51:35.400 --> 1:51:38.920 because the businessman of the band, so he decided that, 1:51:39.120 --> 1:51:41.040 you know, change of label, because I think they went 1:51:41.120 --> 1:51:46.879 with Virgin then um um um Don you know connected 1:51:46.960 --> 1:51:51.600 with Virgin. Don's wife was connected with Virgins, so you know, 1:51:52.400 --> 1:51:54.200 kept it all in the Virgin house as it were. 1:51:54.880 --> 1:51:58.080 Um and yeah, I went to see them when Don 1:51:58.240 --> 1:52:01.719 was in l A working with them, which was which 1:52:01.800 --> 1:52:06.680 was interesting different, but they were enjoying himself, so you know, 1:52:06.760 --> 1:52:09.160 what the hell? Okay? You know you mentioned that. I 1:52:09.200 --> 1:52:14.479 got to ask what what was don style different from yours? Um? 1:52:16.200 --> 1:52:19.880 What was done style different from my? Um? What? Don 1:52:20.120 --> 1:52:23.479 was definitely in awe of working with the band. You know, 1:52:23.720 --> 1:52:26.799 he was amazed that he was there working and producing 1:52:26.840 --> 1:52:30.360 the Holding Stones. I was never amazed I was working 1:52:30.439 --> 1:52:33.040 with him. I was just amazed when we finished an 1:52:33.080 --> 1:52:38.720 album that was great. Okay, you mentioned McK Ralph's a 1:52:38.760 --> 1:52:40.960 couple of times you work with bad Company. Tell me 1:52:41.040 --> 1:52:44.719 about that. Yeah, wow, Um that was on the Burning 1:52:44.840 --> 1:52:50.639 Sky record which we recorded that set out Errville in France. Um. 1:52:51.960 --> 1:52:55.080 You know, the BGS did a documentary recently and they 1:52:55.160 --> 1:52:57.680 said the Shot tour was a dump? What was it 1:52:57.800 --> 1:53:01.280 really like? Yeah? It wasn't that impressed if I got 1:53:01.400 --> 1:53:05.360 to say, yeah, it was. Yeah. It was nothing like 1:53:05.600 --> 1:53:10.479 Long Review Farm. It was nothing like Umu Ridge Farm. 1:53:10.600 --> 1:53:14.720 It was nothing like um um oh, what's the one 1:53:14.760 --> 1:53:17.200 in rock Field? It was nothing like rock Field equipment. 1:53:17.360 --> 1:53:22.280 It was pretty basic. Yeah, it wasn't yeah, Um, it 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:25.679 wasn't that technically, it wasn't that together at all. I agree, 1:53:26.240 --> 1:53:31.720 Um and um that album, Um, that was. It was 1:53:31.760 --> 1:53:35.240 quite a difficult album actually, Um. I think Paul at 1:53:35.280 --> 1:53:39.559 the time wasn't very happy. Um. I seem to remember 1:53:39.600 --> 1:53:43.720 a lot of yeah, a lot of uncomfortable moments. Um. 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:49.040 Mick was always a gentleman and always trying to, you know, 1:53:49.400 --> 1:53:54.200 keep things calmed down. Um and um I remember fondly 1:53:54.680 --> 1:53:58.120 with Mick. We actually on a Saturday night we'd have 1:53:58.160 --> 1:54:02.680 a disco for the local is just um, just to 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:08.040 get them involved. Um. Um but um, I mean I 1:54:08.160 --> 1:54:10.400 went on to work with Paul again with the Law 1:54:10.680 --> 1:54:16.200 with Kenny Jones. Um, that was really fun because Paul, 1:54:16.439 --> 1:54:19.479 Paul reminds me a lot of Mick in terms of 1:54:19.720 --> 1:54:24.880 his professionalism in performing a vocal. I mean, Paul is 1:54:25.000 --> 1:54:28.519 one of the most gifted singers. Um that well, I'm 1:54:28.640 --> 1:54:30.759 very fortunate to work with a lot of gifted singers. 1:54:30.840 --> 1:54:36.160 So um, but Paul has that just incredible voice and 1:54:36.960 --> 1:54:39.920 it comes from a very special place his voice and 1:54:40.040 --> 1:54:43.120 he's singing so and he's still got it he's still 1:54:43.240 --> 1:54:47.800 got it completely. Yeah, so it was always you know, 1:54:47.960 --> 1:54:50.000 to record him was just a dream as well. It 1:54:50.080 --> 1:54:53.280 was a bit like recalling Sinatra. Um, he's got that 1:54:53.640 --> 1:54:58.000 tone and that that delivery. And you know, I was 1:54:58.080 --> 1:55:00.480 very good friends with Simon. I haven't seen sim of ages, 1:55:00.560 --> 1:55:03.880 but um. It was nice because a lot of the 1:55:03.920 --> 1:55:06.440 bands that I worked, but you did become really well. 1:55:06.520 --> 1:55:09.480 Obviously you become very close to them for a while. 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:11.760 So for maybe four or five months, that's all you 1:55:11.840 --> 1:55:15.040 see as those people. Um, and then then you you 1:55:15.120 --> 1:55:17.280 go off and do other things. Sometimes you work together 1:55:17.320 --> 1:55:19.440 again with him. I mean, it's quite interested in my 1:55:19.560 --> 1:55:22.240 career that I've worked with Peter Fampton and the Stones 1:55:22.400 --> 1:55:24.480 as many times. I think I've done seven albums with 1:55:24.560 --> 1:55:28.480 both of them, which is quite strange. I've never never 1:55:28.560 --> 1:55:32.160 thought of that until someone mentioned it to me. Um. Um. 1:55:32.640 --> 1:55:36.640 And then my relationship with Merillium, which was really good too. 1:55:37.400 --> 1:55:41.520 That was a great relationship and kidding jokes still so um. 1:55:42.240 --> 1:55:45.680 But Paul yeah, I mean a wonderful voice. And I 1:55:45.800 --> 1:55:49.400 knew of Paul Free because of Andy Johns. Was Andy 1:55:49.480 --> 1:55:53.080 Johns would recorded the Free albums and that's when I 1:55:53.160 --> 1:55:58.080 met This is interesting. That's so when Backstreet Crawler came 1:55:58.120 --> 1:56:01.960 along podcast yeah know, but the replacement football Cosso was 1:56:02.320 --> 1:56:08.080 was Stuffy Walden and interest emailing was Snuffy yesterday. No wait, okay, 1:56:08.080 --> 1:56:11.520 because Stuffy and I have really dear friends because I 1:56:11.760 --> 1:56:15.800 produced Snuffy's first band called Stray Dog. They were signed 1:56:15.840 --> 1:56:18.840 to Manticore Records, to E L P S label, and 1:56:19.320 --> 1:56:22.360 Snuffy at the time was a hell raising text and 1:56:22.520 --> 1:56:25.560 you know, blues guitar player with a powerhouse trio in London. 1:56:26.280 --> 1:56:29.480 Um and made the album. I think they made another album, 1:56:29.520 --> 1:56:33.200 but then the band imploded and and I was sure 1:56:33.360 --> 1:56:35.720 that Snuffy wouldn't live to see the other side of 1:56:35.760 --> 1:56:40.680 twenty five years old. And then and then many years later, 1:56:41.080 --> 1:56:44.520 I was I was living in Manhattan and I'm watching 1:56:44.600 --> 1:56:48.880 the TV one night and thirty something comes on and 1:56:49.360 --> 1:56:51.640 I'm going like, wow, I love the music on this 1:56:51.800 --> 1:56:53.560 is really nice. So wait for the end credits and 1:56:53.600 --> 1:56:57.600 then it says music by um was it W G 1:56:58.400 --> 1:57:02.320 W G Walden? And I said to Christie, I said, ship, 1:57:02.600 --> 1:57:05.680 that can't be the same Snuff. He can't still be 1:57:05.840 --> 1:57:09.120 around anyway. It was him, and I tracked him down 1:57:09.960 --> 1:57:12.920 and um we we saw a lot of each other. 1:57:13.040 --> 1:57:15.200 About four years ago he was in London a lot. 1:57:15.480 --> 1:57:18.560 In fact, I invited him to perform at Olympic because 1:57:18.760 --> 1:57:21.760 I was doing before COVID, I was doing live music 1:57:22.360 --> 1:57:26.000 Olympic once a month. Um to like a small it's 1:57:26.080 --> 1:57:29.680 just a small forty five seater room, and I put 1:57:29.720 --> 1:57:34.320 on these wonderful evenings with with really really different artists, 1:57:34.360 --> 1:57:38.120 I mean from all different areas of music, mainly unsigned 1:57:38.280 --> 1:57:41.880 artists or new emerging artists or you know, kind of 1:57:42.040 --> 1:57:45.760 legendary artists. And Staffie is one of those. So um. 1:57:45.920 --> 1:57:48.240 I had Charlie Door on another night as well, and 1:57:48.640 --> 1:57:52.640 David Noffler. But but Snuffy and I really connected in 1:57:52.720 --> 1:57:56.320 a big, big way. And Snuffy said the most wonderful 1:57:56.360 --> 1:57:58.160 thing said Chris. He said, I want you to produce 1:57:58.240 --> 1:58:01.040 my next album. I said to me, your next album, 1:58:01.560 --> 1:58:04.400 he said, I'm I'm really winding down from the TV 1:58:04.680 --> 1:58:06.720 music is said, I want to make an album again. 1:58:07.320 --> 1:58:10.960 So um, we're you know, hopefully we're going to be 1:58:11.000 --> 1:58:13.240 doing something in the new year. That begs a question 1:58:13.280 --> 1:58:16.480 you talked to earlier about Frank Sinatra movie soundtrack. Did 1:58:16.520 --> 1:58:19.880 you come to love the sound of the music you 1:58:19.960 --> 1:58:23.200 were making or are you still at home playing the 1:58:23.640 --> 1:58:27.880 soundtracks and coruners of your No. I've come to love 1:58:28.000 --> 1:58:30.920 the sound of the music that I'm making, um and 1:58:31.080 --> 1:58:34.360 I'm incredibly proud of it. And I think one thing 1:58:34.480 --> 1:58:39.400 that I've always um, I've never been an engineer or 1:58:39.400 --> 1:58:43.160 a producer who puts a stamp of my sound on 1:58:43.240 --> 1:58:46.120 a record. I like to think, you know, I bring 1:58:46.320 --> 1:58:49.320 the best of any artists out of them. Um. But 1:58:49.480 --> 1:58:52.520 what I'm doing more now actually is um I love 1:58:52.640 --> 1:58:56.800 doing arrangements, like horn arrangements or string arrangements. I'm going 1:58:56.880 --> 1:59:00.640 back to that part of my sonic ear um um. 1:59:01.200 --> 1:59:06.000 And also I'm doing a lot more um um orchestral 1:59:06.200 --> 1:59:12.120 semi classical acoustic work. Um not jazz yet, I haven't 1:59:12.160 --> 1:59:17.560 fallen into that area, but um more acoustic work. UM. 1:59:18.040 --> 1:59:20.680 So what I'm saying is not kind of you know, 1:59:20.920 --> 1:59:25.240 rock and roll anymore. Um More. I still love blues, 1:59:25.360 --> 1:59:27.840 but it's like how many blues records can you make 1:59:27.880 --> 1:59:31.000 in here? Um? So I'm searching for something new. I'm 1:59:31.000 --> 1:59:33.040 always searching for something new. So I've been working with 1:59:33.080 --> 1:59:37.920 a young artist called James Passing recently, who who I've 1:59:38.040 --> 1:59:40.280 done one song with him and the reviews have been 1:59:40.800 --> 1:59:46.400 like James Taylor meets Bert back IRAQ, which is like, okay, 1:59:46.560 --> 1:59:49.040 I'll settle for that one. I like that. But the 1:59:49.200 --> 1:59:50.920 the guy's got a great voice and he you know, 1:59:51.000 --> 1:59:53.160 he's got the James Taylor style. But the way I 1:59:53.360 --> 1:59:57.120 raised the track was you know, quite orchestral as it were. 1:59:57.240 --> 2:00:02.000 So UM, I'm I'm leaning more towards that now. But 2:00:02.400 --> 2:00:06.760 I'm doing that mainly because I've been really since I've 2:00:06.800 --> 2:00:10.520 been working with Olympic Studios. UM. I met the new 2:00:10.600 --> 2:00:14.480 owners about twelve years ago by an accident. UM where 2:00:15.040 --> 2:00:18.040 is my wife? Actually she wanted our thirtieth anniversary there, 2:00:18.840 --> 2:00:21.440 so she tracked down the new owners, who nobody knew 2:00:21.480 --> 2:00:25.960 who they were. UM and UM. They asked me to 2:00:26.800 --> 2:00:29.240 to join in, and they wanted to keep the great 2:00:29.320 --> 2:00:33.080 Olympic sound in the cinema. So I was like consultant 2:00:33.160 --> 2:00:36.600 and designed the sound for the cinemas there, in choosing 2:00:36.760 --> 2:00:40.600 speaker systems that no other cinema has, and we were 2:00:40.640 --> 2:00:44.840 the first cinema to have Dolby atmos, so a very 2:00:45.080 --> 2:00:48.360 you know. UM. At that point in my life and career, 2:00:48.400 --> 2:00:52.280 I was totally absorbed with AMOS, became really good friends 2:00:52.320 --> 2:00:57.720 with um the Oscar winning Paul Massey, U film mixer 2:00:57.840 --> 2:01:02.080 who did Bohemian Rhapsody. Paul also, i mean does all 2:01:02.160 --> 2:01:04.600 of Ridley Scott's films he's doing you know, he did 2:01:04.680 --> 2:01:09.040 Marsha and he's doing just finished Gucci. Now we're great friends. Um. 2:01:09.360 --> 2:01:12.080 He spends half his life here, all those in the States, 2:01:12.200 --> 2:01:15.120 and but we see a lot of each other. Um. 2:01:15.360 --> 2:01:17.240 And at one time we were going to build a 2:01:17.280 --> 2:01:22.960 Dolby Atmos mixing film score set in Olympic and so 2:01:23.200 --> 2:01:26.040 Paul and I Paul educated me a lot about the 2:01:26.120 --> 2:01:28.840 mixing technique, the consoles. We went to Paris to look 2:01:28.880 --> 2:01:34.640 at some new build atmos cinema UM sound stages there. Um, 2:01:35.040 --> 2:01:38.080 that didn't happen because we turned it around and we're 2:01:38.120 --> 2:01:41.920 building the studio there. But um, it introduced me to 2:01:42.000 --> 2:01:44.960 atmos at the very kind of you know, at the 2:01:45.040 --> 2:01:48.920 start of it. Um. And if a film it's like 2:01:49.000 --> 2:01:51.920 an album. If a film is mixed well in Dolby Atmos, 2:01:52.160 --> 2:01:55.440 it sounds amazing, you know. If it's mixed poorly, it 2:01:55.520 --> 2:01:59.560 can sound like gimmicky. Um it can. Yeah, it's just 2:01:59.720 --> 2:02:04.120 like a record in my mind. So Gravity was the 2:02:04.200 --> 2:02:06.720 first film that we showed at Olympic in atmosph course 2:02:06.760 --> 2:02:10.720 the atmosphe and that is absolutely incredible. So for the 2:02:10.840 --> 2:02:13.640 last ten years I've been living with ATMOS, well eight 2:02:13.760 --> 2:02:15.880 years living with ATMOS, and then the whole thing with 2:02:16.040 --> 2:02:20.560 Atmos music comes along, um and I find myself involved 2:02:20.600 --> 2:02:27.320 with the speaker company PMC, who um Um, I've become 2:02:27.440 --> 2:02:31.000 very good friends with he. Whereas who's like the consultant 2:02:31.040 --> 2:02:33.320 for PMC and getting their stuff out of there. He 2:02:33.800 --> 2:02:36.800 used to work with Steve Lipson, um, you know, who's 2:02:36.880 --> 2:02:39.080 also an old friends. So it's always, you know, this 2:02:39.240 --> 2:02:42.880 close network of friends and people you know. Um. And 2:02:43.880 --> 2:02:49.280 in listening to ATMOS music mixes, I discovered you know, 2:02:49.360 --> 2:02:52.960 we were talking about the analog digital situation earlier. Well, 2:02:53.680 --> 2:02:57.120 the terrible thing that's happening, I think, um, is that 2:02:57.840 --> 2:03:02.280 record companies are now pushing stems out to mixes to 2:03:02.440 --> 2:03:07.120 mix everything in ATMOS because Apple the demanding Atmos um um, 2:03:07.800 --> 2:03:11.720 So stems are going out to mixes. The stems are 2:03:11.880 --> 2:03:15.440 usually got all the compression, all the EQ and everything 2:03:15.760 --> 2:03:19.440 that originated from what they mix the stereo track as 2:03:20.640 --> 2:03:24.680 sent to them to mixing ATMOS. Now ATMOS the dynamic 2:03:24.840 --> 2:03:27.960 range of ATMOS is huge. That's why it sounds like 2:03:28.080 --> 2:03:30.760 it does in a cinema because there is no compression. 2:03:31.400 --> 2:03:35.360 So when you're given compressed files to mixing atmos, it 2:03:35.680 --> 2:03:39.480 already makes your mix sounds like eight times smaller than 2:03:39.600 --> 2:03:42.800 anything else which doesn't have compression, because you're limiting the 2:03:42.880 --> 2:03:46.760 headroom in it. UM. And I'm really frustrated with this 2:03:47.000 --> 2:03:50.640 because RELD companies don't understand that they're pumping out all 2:03:50.720 --> 2:03:54.000 these stems to people. Mixes are coming back. They're in atmos, 2:03:54.120 --> 2:03:56.880 but they sound that ship. Um. You know they have 2:03:57.040 --> 2:04:00.760 no dynamic range. Um. There's a whole issue with me 2:04:00.880 --> 2:04:05.240 with reverb in atmos mixes. Um engineers are putting reverb 2:04:05.360 --> 2:04:10.040 upon reverb on vocals and that in atmos you have 2:04:10.120 --> 2:04:11.520 to be in a really good room to know what 2:04:11.560 --> 2:04:13.920 it's going to fold down to. And that's the other 2:04:14.000 --> 2:04:16.440 issue is that people are mixing in the atmos and 2:04:16.520 --> 2:04:19.840 then when it's actually folded down into spatial sound, into 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:23.800 into by normals sounding the headphones, it can sound like crap. 2:04:23.960 --> 2:04:27.680 And the other issue is is that the if you 2:04:27.800 --> 2:04:32.000 mix the stereo file stereo mixed file that's been compressed 2:04:32.040 --> 2:04:34.880 for stereo like they all are. Um, if you mix 2:04:35.000 --> 2:04:36.920 that with an al with a song that's been mixed 2:04:36.960 --> 2:04:41.800 in ATMOS on your album, the ATMOS song will sound 2:04:42.080 --> 2:04:45.800 eight eight times quieter than the stereo co best file 2:04:45.880 --> 2:04:51.680 because you can't compress metadata, which is what ATMOS music is. UM. 2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:56.960 So there's I mean, I think atmos is an incredible thing. 2:04:57.040 --> 2:05:02.440 It's great in cinemas, Um, it's great. UM. I believe 2:05:02.560 --> 2:05:06.800 it's going to be incredibly successful in cars because then 2:05:06.840 --> 2:05:09.720 you've got a captive audience. You can put eight speakers 2:05:09.760 --> 2:05:11.880 in the car, you put them over your head, um, 2:05:12.320 --> 2:05:15.360 and it will sound great in a car. Um. But 2:05:15.720 --> 2:05:18.600 for the whole thing with you know which Apple are 2:05:18.640 --> 2:05:24.120 pushing now with the the spatial music in headphones, it's 2:05:24.200 --> 2:05:26.640 like it's like what you were saying earlier about when 2:05:27.080 --> 2:05:29.320 you hear a remix of the Beatles and doesn't even 2:05:29.360 --> 2:05:32.240 sound like the Beatles, and it's like the same thing 2:05:32.280 --> 2:05:34.720 that happening in spatial It's like, what's the point of 2:05:34.800 --> 2:05:37.760 doing it for headphones? So, I mean, you know who 2:05:37.840 --> 2:05:40.680 wants I don't know. If you're in a room in 2:05:40.760 --> 2:05:44.880 an environment where you're totally you know, you're totally covered 2:05:44.920 --> 2:05:46.560 with sound. That's one thing when you've got a pair 2:05:46.560 --> 2:05:48.920 of headphones in, you know, and things coming out the 2:05:48.960 --> 2:05:51.640 back of your neck, the back of your head, It's like, 2:05:52.160 --> 2:05:54.960 that's that's not a very good experience. I don't think so. 2:05:55.520 --> 2:05:59.800 I'm really pushing to get ATMOS music played in sin 2:06:00.080 --> 2:06:04.920 miles because cinemas have atmos or an auditoriums that also 2:06:05.080 --> 2:06:07.800 have ATMOS. There's there's a whole you know, there's a 2:06:07.880 --> 2:06:12.040 whole new way to get ATMOS music to people, apart 2:06:12.080 --> 2:06:17.120 from earbats. Okay, a couple of things. The remixes are 2:06:17.240 --> 2:06:20.800 beyond defensive. There are songs where the vocal is so 2:06:21.080 --> 2:06:25.760 far down it's just really crazy forgetting the fact that 2:06:25.800 --> 2:06:31.000 we've had so many failed formats quad you know, s A, C, D, etcetera. 2:06:31.840 --> 2:06:35.760 If we start a new with new records, is there 2:06:35.920 --> 2:06:39.480 a future in mixing those for headphones? And is the 2:06:39.600 --> 2:06:43.320 learning curve too steep for engineers? What do you think? Now? 2:06:43.440 --> 2:06:45.640 Don't think the only curve is too steep, But it 2:06:45.720 --> 2:06:48.600 goes back to think of that. Okay, if you're recording 2:06:48.680 --> 2:06:52.240 from scratch and I'm doing this, actually I'm I'm recording 2:06:52.480 --> 2:06:56.600 music for atmos. But my my game plan is that. Um, 2:06:56.960 --> 2:06:59.920 I want to be called all real instruments. I don't 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:03.440 and the recording these synthpads um and he at eates, 2:07:03.520 --> 2:07:06.920 it's all real instruments. So it's it's in that term. 2:07:07.000 --> 2:07:11.400 It's classical. Now this sound, um, and I've done this 2:07:11.440 --> 2:07:17.120 already that just putting that into a Dolby atmosphere is amazing. Um. 2:07:17.440 --> 2:07:25.160 You know, acoustic guitar, marimba, violin's, clarinet, piano. Because sonically 2:07:25.360 --> 2:07:27.840 it works. I mean it's like listening to a Frank 2:07:27.840 --> 2:07:33.360 Sinatra album or the George Shearing album. It really works well. Um. 2:07:34.120 --> 2:07:37.360 When um, when it changes for me is when it 2:07:37.560 --> 2:07:42.200 becomes all programmed music, which okay, UM, I'm not a 2:07:42.280 --> 2:07:45.040 big fan of program music, so it's not fair for 2:07:45.120 --> 2:07:50.400 me to diss that music. But um, if it's written 2:07:50.480 --> 2:07:55.560 for Dolby and conceived before it's on a stereophile, then 2:07:55.600 --> 2:08:00.280 it's great. It can down terrific um. So I think 2:08:00.360 --> 2:08:04.040 there will be music. There is music being written for atmos, 2:08:04.160 --> 2:08:08.480 for Dolby atmos um um. But my fear, of my 2:08:08.640 --> 2:08:11.120 worry is that it could it could go down the 2:08:11.200 --> 2:08:13.960 toilet because the record companies are jumping on the bandmag 2:08:14.040 --> 2:08:16.960 and of the gimmick of it, um And most of 2:08:17.040 --> 2:08:19.480 it is a gimmick. In my mind. The whole headphone 2:08:19.480 --> 2:08:22.640 thing is a gimmick. Um. If you if you experience 2:08:22.720 --> 2:08:25.160 it in an auditory in a I mean, you know, 2:08:25.360 --> 2:08:28.240 no one can hear Dolby Atmos like we can in 2:08:28.320 --> 2:08:31.200 a recording studio. You know, it's like, but you can 2:08:31.320 --> 2:08:33.600 hear in the cinema. You can hear it in an 2:08:33.680 --> 2:08:36.960 environment where you know that speaker capability is in there. 2:08:37.040 --> 2:08:39.680 So that kind of makes sense to me. Um And 2:08:41.240 --> 2:08:44.839 one of the best Atmos mixes I've heard is Rocketman 2:08:44.960 --> 2:08:48.600 Elton John, I mean, and that was mixed by um 2:08:49.000 --> 2:08:50.960 or Andy I can't going to be his name now, 2:08:51.040 --> 2:08:53.320 but it was mixed by one of the original engineers. 2:08:53.360 --> 2:08:56.760 It wasn't farmed out to someone. It sounds incredible. I'm 2:08:56.840 --> 2:08:59.840 hearing stuff that I've never heard before. The placement of 2:09:00.080 --> 2:09:04.520 it is beautiful. Um And then I hear other stuff, 2:09:04.560 --> 2:09:08.520 which is just I heard Marvin Gaye, what's going on exactly? 2:09:08.640 --> 2:09:11.720 That's the worst. I mean, that really turned me off. Well, Well, 2:09:11.840 --> 2:09:13.840 I mean, you know, I've got the stems for that 2:09:14.000 --> 2:09:16.960 at home. I could do a better mixed up for sure. 2:09:17.080 --> 2:09:19.920 So I'm actually digging of you know, getting an ATMOS 2:09:20.000 --> 2:09:22.920 system and starting off on headphones because you can start 2:09:22.960 --> 2:09:25.960 off mixing your headphones. You don't need the studio. And 2:09:26.160 --> 2:09:29.240 the great thing about Dolby is they're helping engineers and producers. 2:09:29.320 --> 2:09:31.840 So you know, I could mix something at home in 2:09:31.920 --> 2:09:34.640 atmost all my headphones and take it to Dolby play 2:09:34.840 --> 2:09:38.560 in there in there at my studio and go, oh, actually, 2:09:38.880 --> 2:09:41.720 you know that vocals too high in relationship to the 2:09:41.760 --> 2:09:44.200 speakers over your head and stuff like that. And once 2:09:44.240 --> 2:09:46.160 you get that together that you can set a template 2:09:46.240 --> 2:09:48.480 up at home. So you get a template going and 2:09:48.600 --> 2:09:51.240 it's easier to you know, to mix at home without 2:09:51.280 --> 2:09:54.760 the expense of all the speakers. Um So. But then 2:09:54.800 --> 2:09:57.720 the other issue is folding it down into by noural. 2:09:57.960 --> 2:10:01.320 That's that's a problem that's hasn't really been sorted out. 2:10:01.600 --> 2:10:05.120 I've I've heard mixes where, um, I know the mix 2:10:05.200 --> 2:10:08.680 really well and say, for instance, like a guitar, it's 2:10:08.720 --> 2:10:11.280 coming out over your head, over the top speakers, and 2:10:11.360 --> 2:10:15.640 when it gets folded down from atmost into seven point one, um, 2:10:15.960 --> 2:10:19.880 the guitar, sorry, the guitars on the left side, the 2:10:19.960 --> 2:10:22.400 guitar suddenly coming out over your head, so the fold 2:10:22.480 --> 2:10:28.040 down doesn't happen. The software seems to estimate where it 2:10:28.080 --> 2:10:32.520 should be. Um, So there's got to be some engineering 2:10:32.640 --> 2:10:35.640 where you know, it knows exactly where it should be 2:10:35.720 --> 2:10:37.800 if you're doing it hard left or hard right, rather 2:10:37.840 --> 2:10:41.440 than simulating where it should be. But I think the 2:10:41.520 --> 2:10:45.360 format could be really really interesting. But it is really interesting. 2:10:45.400 --> 2:10:47.200 I've heard a lot of stuff, but it's still in 2:10:47.280 --> 2:10:54.400 its early days, of of of of being treated with respect. Um. Yeah, 2:10:54.520 --> 2:10:59.840 it's quite amazing, um. Bruce Bruce, Bruce Bochnick has actually 2:11:01.120 --> 2:11:04.720 the storm um for at most it's as incredible, I 2:11:04.800 --> 2:11:08.240 mean amazing. And it's so simple. I mean that compeable 2:11:08.240 --> 2:11:12.400 in night tracks, ain't that? Um, Well, there's a long history. 2:11:12.520 --> 2:11:15.480 He made it in five point one. He's been through 2:11:15.560 --> 2:11:18.120 so many iterations. I think, you know, not to put 2:11:18.200 --> 2:11:20.960 him down. But it's not like he came from stereo 2:11:21.120 --> 2:11:24.680 and went there. They've done a lot of versions in between. Okay, 2:11:24.840 --> 2:11:26.520 but you know what I'm saying about having the respect 2:11:26.560 --> 2:11:29.480 for the music, and they understand exactly that's so important, 2:11:29.880 --> 2:11:31.560 you know, he could I just have to ask you 2:11:31.560 --> 2:11:35.280 about one more band. I remember going to k Rock 2:11:35.360 --> 2:11:40.000 Acoustic Christmas in two and there's ten bands. The headliner 2:11:40.280 --> 2:11:44.000 is Duran. Duran. Half an hour, all of a sudden 2:11:44.000 --> 2:11:46.560 they come out and play this song called Ordinary World. 2:11:47.080 --> 2:11:50.840 I got it immediately. This was before the band the 2:11:50.920 --> 2:11:54.000 album was released. There are two tracks on that album 2:11:54.280 --> 2:11:58.320 like that that and come Undone. How did you get involved? 2:11:58.960 --> 2:12:01.800 How did you make those records? They haven't done anything 2:12:02.120 --> 2:12:05.320 quite at that level since so and they were seen 2:12:05.400 --> 2:12:09.840 as you know eighty six. The fact that all of 2:12:09.840 --> 2:12:13.360 a sudden they had this incredible material which was very successful, 2:12:13.720 --> 2:12:18.840 was astounding. Well, I Um, I was always a fan 2:12:18.920 --> 2:12:21.720 of Dround Around. I loved A Round Around ever since 2:12:21.760 --> 2:12:25.800 they appeared on the scene. As it were, because of 2:12:25.920 --> 2:12:29.200 my friendship with Peter Rudge, who was to a manager 2:12:29.880 --> 2:12:33.720 for the Stones for a long time. UM. Peter introduced 2:12:33.760 --> 2:12:35.520 me to the band because he was managing the band 2:12:35.760 --> 2:12:38.440 at that time and asked me if I'd like to 2:12:38.520 --> 2:12:40.720 have produced them. I said, well, I'd love to produced 2:12:40.840 --> 2:12:43.520 Rounder and I love them, so I got together with him. 2:12:43.560 --> 2:12:48.000 But it wasn't the Dround Around. It was um So 2:12:48.800 --> 2:12:55.440 Um Rodgers, the drummer had left the band. Um and 2:12:55.680 --> 2:12:58.080 the guitar player had left the band, so when I 2:12:58.240 --> 2:13:01.720 met them, it was Sterling who was the drummer in 2:13:01.760 --> 2:13:06.680 the band, and Warren Um the guitar player who played 2:13:06.760 --> 2:13:10.720 with Missing was it Missing Person? Yeah? I think he 2:13:10.720 --> 2:13:13.520 played with Zappa as well. Warren was a tour of 2:13:13.600 --> 2:13:16.320 the False I mean, he was such a great guitar 2:13:16.440 --> 2:13:21.680 player and a good songwriter, and sonically his sounds were like, 2:13:22.040 --> 2:13:24.080 you know, so different to what I've ever heard before. 2:13:24.920 --> 2:13:30.040 So it was a strange album for me experienced wise, 2:13:30.080 --> 2:13:32.240 because there were two brand new members in the band. 2:13:33.080 --> 2:13:34.840 So it would have been it would have been good 2:13:34.880 --> 2:13:38.240 if they had come along maybe like eight months later, um, 2:13:38.920 --> 2:13:42.000 because you know, then they really were integrated into the band. 2:13:42.120 --> 2:13:45.800 So UM, I did the album before the one you're 2:13:45.800 --> 2:13:48.920 talking about, Ordinary World. I did the album before that, 2:13:49.080 --> 2:13:51.760 so I was like the Um. I was like the 2:13:51.840 --> 2:13:55.880 opening act for the next album. But we did record 2:13:56.000 --> 2:13:58.640 some amazing songs in the album that I did. There's 2:13:58.680 --> 2:14:03.400 one sort called Antarctica, another one called Serious, and those 2:14:03.440 --> 2:14:06.360 two songs were much more. They weren't kind of pop 2:14:06.480 --> 2:14:09.840 rock songs. They were you know, almost ballads, you know, 2:14:09.960 --> 2:14:12.920 they were. They were beautiful, laid back around songs, and 2:14:12.960 --> 2:14:15.680 the course the record company didn't want that. They wanted 2:14:15.720 --> 2:14:18.360 all the you know, up tempo stuff, which was a 2:14:18.440 --> 2:14:22.160 shame because that wasn't that wasn't the good stuff on 2:14:22.280 --> 2:14:25.080 the album. That was the weaker material of anything. UM. 2:14:25.200 --> 2:14:30.080 But in working with them, durround Um, Nick and Simon 2:14:30.240 --> 2:14:34.440 and John we became again. We're still great friends to 2:14:34.960 --> 2:14:37.480 this day, I mean really good friends. And considering it 2:14:37.640 --> 2:14:42.000 was an album that was one of their poorest performing UM, 2:14:42.280 --> 2:14:45.080 it's you know, it's always good to see them UM. 2:14:45.520 --> 2:14:48.440 And I'm just so happy that you know, they're still 2:14:48.520 --> 2:14:50.920 doing it UM. And you know, they signed up with 2:14:51.000 --> 2:14:54.880 BMG now they got you know, new label, UM and 2:14:55.000 --> 2:14:58.839 they're doing things and and Nick is incredible. Nick's always 2:14:59.360 --> 2:15:02.840 looking for, you know, something new sonically and musically and 2:15:03.000 --> 2:15:06.280 in collaborations as well. He's a very smart man. Give 2:15:06.400 --> 2:15:08.520 me you were a picture of what's going on in 2:15:08.600 --> 2:15:13.160 the music business today. There's two pictures I'm seeing. There's 2:15:13.240 --> 2:15:17.360 one is I'm very futunate that I'm still working and 2:15:17.520 --> 2:15:22.560 involved with a lot of young talent, young musicians, some 2:15:22.760 --> 2:15:29.839 incredible musicians as well. Really really um just playing instruments 2:15:29.920 --> 2:15:33.360 all day long, writing all day long. UM. COVID has 2:15:33.400 --> 2:15:35.880 been a nightmare for them, but it's been a nightmare 2:15:35.960 --> 2:15:39.880 for all musicians, but the good ones, you know, that's 2:15:39.920 --> 2:15:42.960 what they know and love. So I'm still surrounded by that, 2:15:43.200 --> 2:15:45.800 and people are still sending the emails to work with 2:15:45.880 --> 2:15:48.760 them and help them on stuff. So that's you know, 2:15:49.080 --> 2:15:52.600 that's fantastic. And I love to share, you know, my 2:15:53.080 --> 2:15:57.200 fifty four years of knowledge and making them, recording great 2:15:57.280 --> 2:16:00.760 albums with them and to to help them get to 2:16:01.040 --> 2:16:02.800 you know, what they want to achieve and what they 2:16:02.840 --> 2:16:07.520 want to hear um UM. So that's one great picture 2:16:07.920 --> 2:16:09.800 and you know, and they can get it out there, 2:16:09.840 --> 2:16:12.920 they can easily release it. Then then it's up to 2:16:13.000 --> 2:16:15.840 them to you know, do the social network thing um, 2:16:16.840 --> 2:16:19.360 you know, which is that's another job in its in 2:16:19.480 --> 2:16:22.640 its own, but you know, so it is possible for 2:16:22.880 --> 2:16:26.800 an unknown artist if they really die hards, if they're 2:16:26.800 --> 2:16:28.440 going to perform live as well, they can get it 2:16:28.520 --> 2:16:31.680 out there. So that's good. And then I also see UM, 2:16:31.800 --> 2:16:35.680 I see labels like BMG who are supporting you know, 2:16:36.160 --> 2:16:40.200 the vintage, the older acts um and helping them preserve 2:16:40.800 --> 2:16:44.960 their heritage, preserve their catalog UM and you know, keeping 2:16:45.000 --> 2:16:47.360 them going into the future as well without you know, 2:16:47.520 --> 2:16:51.119 crazy deals where they're you know, forever paying back the money. UM. 2:16:51.520 --> 2:16:55.080 So I'm kind of encouraged by the business at the moment. 2:16:55.400 --> 2:16:58.440 Um Um. I'm not going to get into the streaming 2:16:58.560 --> 2:17:03.040 thing because that's another area that's um um in a 2:17:03.120 --> 2:17:05.320 sense I don't know enough about. But I know it's 2:17:05.400 --> 2:17:07.920 you know, it's not given the artists back their jews, 2:17:08.520 --> 2:17:11.560 you know, which they're really owned at all. It's it's 2:17:11.560 --> 2:17:15.640 a fragment of um of what they should be getting. 2:17:15.879 --> 2:17:18.960 And that's the deal done with the record companies and 2:17:19.080 --> 2:17:22.280 the streaming companies. You know. I understand the business of it, 2:17:22.400 --> 2:17:27.120 but I don't respect it at all. Okay, now, as 2:17:27.280 --> 2:17:31.440 it's transition from big studio to small studio, a lot 2:17:31.520 --> 2:17:34.880 of people of an older vintage are complaining there's not 2:17:35.160 --> 2:17:38.760 enough money to do it right. At best, you can 2:17:38.920 --> 2:17:41.880 you know, cut the basics in a big studio. Do 2:17:42.000 --> 2:17:44.320 you think the ship has already sailed and you can 2:17:44.400 --> 2:17:47.400 work with the new technology and make is big or 2:17:47.520 --> 2:17:51.960 you lamenting just not enough money to make the record? Um. 2:17:52.120 --> 2:17:54.280 I think there is the money to make the record, um. 2:17:54.840 --> 2:17:59.080 But the money should be there only if the musician, 2:17:59.440 --> 2:18:03.560 the band, the artist is ready to go into a studio. 2:18:04.280 --> 2:18:06.920 You know, I've made records where I've done a whole 2:18:06.959 --> 2:18:11.560 album in three days. So um, if anyone's that good, 2:18:12.080 --> 2:18:13.960 they can easily raise the money to go in with 2:18:14.040 --> 2:18:16.440 a band or whatever to make an album in three 2:18:16.520 --> 2:18:19.879 days of high quality if they're of the high quality 2:18:19.920 --> 2:18:25.000 as well. So I um, there's yeah, okay, there's there's 2:18:25.240 --> 2:18:28.960 no money coming from the majors for for new artists 2:18:29.440 --> 2:18:33.080 in that respect. Um. It's more it's turned out that 2:18:33.160 --> 2:18:35.520 the A and R, that the publishers are becoming the 2:18:35.600 --> 2:18:37.800 A and R people, and they're the ones who are 2:18:37.800 --> 2:18:40.920 giving money to the artists, the unknown artists because they're 2:18:41.120 --> 2:18:43.680 you know, they're signing their their publishing and bedding on that. 2:18:44.240 --> 2:18:46.240 So I think that's where the money is coming in from. 2:18:46.320 --> 2:18:49.880 But there's also money coming in from fans. Um. You know, 2:18:50.080 --> 2:18:53.200 quite a few records have been made have made, have 2:18:53.320 --> 2:18:57.600 been funded by the fans by well pledges no longer around, 2:18:57.680 --> 2:19:01.760 but you know, um of that type of funding. Um. 2:19:02.480 --> 2:19:05.360 And I think that's really good too because the then 2:19:05.400 --> 2:19:07.880 the fan base is involved in the making of the 2:19:07.959 --> 2:19:11.040 record and Meridian we're really one of the first man's 2:19:11.080 --> 2:19:14.520 to start that, and they've done so much from it. 2:19:14.560 --> 2:19:16.760 I mean, if anyone wants to look at a template 2:19:16.800 --> 2:19:18.680 a how to do it, we're really in a shining 2:19:18.720 --> 2:19:21.560 an example. I mean the fact that you know a 2:19:21.680 --> 2:19:25.000 band that was dropped that was you know, the change 2:19:25.040 --> 2:19:27.280 of seeing a change of everything all of a sudden. 2:19:27.280 --> 2:19:30.320 They're playing at the Albert hall Um, you know, and 2:19:30.440 --> 2:19:34.680 they're they're making great records still and setting out. But 2:19:34.760 --> 2:19:36.440 you've got to go on the road as well. That's 2:19:36.640 --> 2:19:38.960 that's the other I think a lot of music now, 2:19:41.040 --> 2:19:44.520 a lot of music is connected, um with It's always 2:19:44.560 --> 2:19:47.879 been connected with fashion, but even more so fashion orientated 2:19:48.320 --> 2:19:51.280 music made in bedrooms. I'm sick of hearing that old story. 2:19:51.360 --> 2:19:54.520 I mean, I've been making records where someone sent me 2:19:54.600 --> 2:19:56.960 the vocal on the guitar recording an iPhone and it 2:19:57.000 --> 2:19:59.920 sounds great. I've actually done backing vocals on the night 2:20:00.080 --> 2:20:03.960 phone and put them into a track. So it's more 2:20:04.000 --> 2:20:06.160 about what you get down on tape as its well 2:20:06.240 --> 2:20:10.160 what you get down rather than where you do it. 2:20:10.360 --> 2:20:14.040 Although I do still believe and I know that if 2:20:14.120 --> 2:20:17.160 you're a group of musicians or you want to create 2:20:17.560 --> 2:20:20.000 something so special with a group of musicians, even if 2:20:20.040 --> 2:20:22.160 you're a solo artist, you have to do it in 2:20:22.200 --> 2:20:27.640 a recording studio, in a in a real professional recording studio. Um, 2:20:28.240 --> 2:20:32.960 so you capture that moment um, Yeah, in that way, 2:20:33.360 --> 2:20:36.960 and something special happens when you when a group of 2:20:37.040 --> 2:20:39.400 musicians getting the room and played together, as opposed to 2:20:39.879 --> 2:20:42.120 I'm doing the drums at home, I'm doing the guitar 2:20:42.200 --> 2:20:44.960 in someone else's room. I'm doing you know, putting it 2:20:45.000 --> 2:20:48.080 all together from different rooms all over the world or 2:20:48.160 --> 2:20:53.760 different parts of whatever country you're in. Um, that's that's painful. 2:20:55.200 --> 2:20:58.640 Christs has been hotterly fantastic. I got so many more questions. 2:20:59.200 --> 2:21:02.039 We gotta leave shore for now. Maybe we'll go another 2:21:02.120 --> 2:21:04.680 deeper another time. You know, I'd love to b I 2:21:04.879 --> 2:21:06.680 was just blown away, you know, when you hit the 2:21:06.760 --> 2:21:09.680 mic running. You were just unbelievably great. The stories you 2:21:09.760 --> 2:21:12.600 were telling, amplifying all the issues. I can't thank you 2:21:12.800 --> 2:21:15.640 enough for doing Bob. It's really been it's really been 2:21:15.680 --> 2:21:17.879 a pleasure to told you because I've yeah, I've known 2:21:17.959 --> 2:21:21.720 you for a long time, so it's great to see 2:21:21.760 --> 2:21:24.000 you and to talk to you. And yeah, i'd love 2:21:24.080 --> 2:21:26.879 to come back and do a part two and talk 2:21:26.920 --> 2:21:31.480 about lots of other stuff. It's okay, this has been 2:21:31.560 --> 2:21:34.560 great until next time. This is Bob left stuff.