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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to the barb Left That's podcast,

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Speaker 1: my yesterday as producer of Engineer Chris Kim's Chris. Glad

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Speaker 1: to have you here, Bob. It's a pleasure to be

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Speaker 1: seeing you and talking to you. Believe you, men, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we've known each other for a long time.

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Speaker 1: It was Peter Fampton that first introduced me to your blog.

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Speaker 1: It must have been like two thousand and thirteen, maybe

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Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve, I'm not sure. Ever since then,

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Speaker 1: I've been religiously following you. UM. I never chirp up much,

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Speaker 1: I never step in. I think I've only said one

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Speaker 1: or two things ever, But I really I really respect

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Speaker 1: your love of the music business and your care with

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Speaker 1: the music business as well installing in a lot of

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Speaker 1: people things that they don't know and should know. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: good night, don't brother. Okay, what was the first record

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Speaker 1: you ever worked on? The first record I ever worked on,

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Speaker 1: UM would have been as an assistant engineer, a tea boy,

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Speaker 1: or as an engineer where how far do you want

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Speaker 1: to go back? All the way to the beginning, all

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Speaker 1: the way to the beginning, right The first record I

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Speaker 1: would have worked on, UM was It would have been

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Speaker 1: a jingle for UM Martini Try a Taste of Martini

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Speaker 1: any time anywhere, that one, which you might not get

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Speaker 1: in the States. I don't know, but it was. It

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Speaker 1: was for UK TV adverts and at Olympic we did

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Speaker 1: a lot of those sessions from seven am until ten

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Speaker 1: in the morning, the jingle sessions, and that would have

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Speaker 1: been the first session UM I would have worked on. UM.

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Speaker 1: Actually no, I tell a lie. The first session I

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Speaker 1: ever worked on was the day that I arrived at

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Speaker 1: Olympic to start work. I just remembered, so UM I was.

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Speaker 1: I arrived at the studio my first day and the job,

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Speaker 1: and I was told to go up to Studio one,

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Speaker 1: introduced myself to the engineer, sit down and observe. So

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Speaker 1: I walked into Studio one, introduced myself to the engineer

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Speaker 1: who's still a very good friend of mine. Alan O'Duffy

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Speaker 1: and Anna looked at me, startled, and he said, do

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Speaker 1: you work here? I said yes. He said can you

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Speaker 1: take over? Because the engineer at the assistant engineer that

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Speaker 1: was working with me, he's suddenly turned really sick and

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Speaker 1: he's disappeared, so can you take over? So I didn't

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Speaker 1: tell him that, you know, I just walked in the building.

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Speaker 1: So I sat down. And because I was familiar with

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Speaker 1: tape machines, my mother and father bought me a tape

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Speaker 1: machine when I was about ten years old, so I

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Speaker 1: knew how to press record, stop, start, rewind, those simple things.

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Speaker 1: And I looked at the tape box and could see

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Speaker 1: what the log was, what people were writing in for

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Speaker 1: the log. And the special only lasted like thirty minutes. Again,

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Speaker 1: it was another jingle session. And at the end of

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Speaker 1: the session and and said thank you very much, Chris.

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Speaker 1: He said, They said, I haven't seen you before. How

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Speaker 1: long have you worked here? I said, well about forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes now, So that was off to a good

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Speaker 1: start and A has been a dear friend every since. Actually,

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Speaker 1: let's start from the beginning. Where were you? Where did

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Speaker 1: you grow up? M I grew up in Battersea in

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Speaker 1: southwest London, um um and in my school from the

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Speaker 1: age of like eleven through fourteen. My school not said that.

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Speaker 1: I was really interested in the school plays and theatrical stuff,

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Speaker 1: so having a tape recorder was really handy because I

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Speaker 1: was asked to do the sound for the school plays. Um.

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Speaker 1: Anything to get off doing the actual lessons, but I

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Speaker 1: loved English lit. I loved doing in the sound effects

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Speaker 1: of the plays. And that took me to a really

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Speaker 1: interesting place because the school were they they suggested that

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Speaker 1: I go to a recording studio in in the middle

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Speaker 1: of London, near Tottenham Court Road, which was in a school,

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Speaker 1: a tiny little studio. It was a four channelvill Texian

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Speaker 1: mixer and a stereo phareograph machine. UM. It was mainly

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Speaker 1: for dialogue, mainly for drama. And I was sent there

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Speaker 1: every second Saturday in the month. And I'm like twelve

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Speaker 1: years old, thirteen years old getting on the tube going

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Speaker 1: up to London. UM. And I met another young student

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Speaker 1: in there who also became a very very dear friend,

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Speaker 1: a gentleman called Ray Staff. And Ray was one of

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Speaker 1: the best mastering engineers. He just retired about a year ago,

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Speaker 1: but he's his last residence was air mastering, but he

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Speaker 1: was at Columbia Sony in London Whitfield Street, tried and

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Speaker 1: I think he started at Trident actually, and he was

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Speaker 1: one of the best mastering engineers in the UK for sure. UM.

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Speaker 1: And occasionally I have the nerve to the cheek to

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Speaker 1: pull him out of retirements. Sometimes and say, you've got

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Speaker 1: to master this one for me. So it's quite a

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Speaker 1: strange that he and I were because he's from East London,

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Speaker 1: so it was a very different part of London. So

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Speaker 1: it was quite of wonderful that we met there and

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Speaker 1: then we met in a later life as well when

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Speaker 1: our careers that you know, kind of the following the

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Speaker 1: roads and paths that we did. Okay, were you surprised

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Speaker 1: when you saw the Battersea Power Station on the cover

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Speaker 1: of the Pink Floyd album. Um? Yes, I was surprised

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Speaker 1: by that, but I mean it's such an iconic building.

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Speaker 1: Um it was, you know, it was fantastic to see.

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Speaker 1: I just want to go to the the thing with

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Speaker 1: Ray because there's another little wonderful at addendum to that story.

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Speaker 1: So the teacher, the music teacher in that school who

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Speaker 1: donated his saturdays to teaching young students, um, the two

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Speaker 1: of us. Um. He was also a musician and he

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Speaker 1: loved his jazz. So one afternoon he said to me,

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Speaker 1: he said, Chris, would you mind staying behind? He said,

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Speaker 1: I've got a little trio like to record. And we

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Speaker 1: only had like three or four microphones, well four microphones

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Speaker 1: because we had four knobs on the bull text in

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Speaker 1: so so I stayed behind and recalled the Teacher's Little

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Speaker 1: Jazz Ensemble. Well, many many years later I saw his

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Speaker 1: face pop up because, um, his name is Ray Cooper,

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Speaker 1: and I think you know Ray Cooper for the percussionist. Yeah. So, Um,

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Speaker 1: there was a wonderful moment a long time ago where, um,

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Speaker 1: we hadn't seen each other since I was fourteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and I saw him. There was an event for um,

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Speaker 1: what was the Elton and Bernie album, The Two Rooms?

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Speaker 1: Was it? Yeah, there was a big Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: a big event for that. U and I attended that

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Speaker 1: event and we kind of, you know, I just kind

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Speaker 1: of looked. We saw each other from a distance and

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Speaker 1: we both started to cry as we walked towards each other.

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Speaker 1: It was unbelievable. Um, And what a wonderful man he

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Speaker 1: was and still is terrific gentleman. Okay, what did your

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Speaker 1: parents do for a living and why did they buy

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Speaker 1: that tape recorder for you? Well, I'm not sure they

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Speaker 1: bought it, Bob. I think it might have fallen off

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Speaker 1: the back of a lorry, as we say in London.

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Speaker 1: That begs the question of what your parents were doing

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Speaker 1: every day. Well, my my my mother worked as UMM.

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Speaker 1: She was what you would call hr now. She was

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Speaker 1: working in a bank UM and she was part of

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Speaker 1: the accounts team. And then my father, my father was

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Speaker 1: an under taker French polisher and carpenter, and he had

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Speaker 1: a job at a big department store here called the

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Speaker 1: co op Um repairing stuff that had come in broken

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Speaker 1: or had to be repaired, furniture. But that's where the

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Speaker 1: back of the lorry, you know, gifts would sometimes arrive. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you grow up exactly the right time the Beatles hit, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: You talked about your theatrical interests as a result of schooling.

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Speaker 1: To what degree were you interested in the popular music scene.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't that interested in popular music, in fact, where

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Speaker 1: even when I started working at the Olympicum, the kind

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Speaker 1: of band scene didn't interest me at all. I mean

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Speaker 1: I just missed Jimmy Hendrix by about a year. At Olympic.

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Speaker 1: I think Jimmy was there when it first opened with

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Speaker 1: Eddie Eddie Kramer, and I never met Jimmy. I never

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Speaker 1: met Eddie, actually I missed him. Um. And my whole

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Speaker 1: love of music was really it was film scores. It

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Speaker 1: was musical films. Um and the only two tapes I

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Speaker 1: had for my tape machine were Fates and Artra Songs

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Speaker 1: for Swinging Lovers and Nat King Cole with George Shearing.

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Speaker 1: Um and they were really my two introductions to the

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Speaker 1: sonics of music, of recording. Um and they've stuck with

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Speaker 1: me ever since. I mean, two of my favorite recordings ever.

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Speaker 1: Um So in starting at Olympic um No, let's go

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Speaker 1: back a little bit before. Yeah, so, how does your

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Speaker 1: schooling end? How do you get the job? Little? Okay,

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Speaker 1: the schooling ends? Um. I left school when I was

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Speaker 1: sixteen and a half. I didn't go on to further education.

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Speaker 1: I didn't go to college. And um I because of

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Speaker 1: my love of recording. In a way, I missed quite

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Speaker 1: a lot of lessons because of that, which I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: missing because I got more involved in recording the music.

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Speaker 1: So in leaving school, I didn't have any path or

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Speaker 1: direction um and, apart from my love of of of music,

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Speaker 1: and so I had odd jobs of like I had

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Speaker 1: a job driving for Ferrari, not the race. There was

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Speaker 1: your job driving with Ferrari, not not not the racing team.

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Speaker 1: I was picking up spare parts for Ferrari because I

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Speaker 1: passed my license as soon as I could. I passed

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Speaker 1: my driver's license, so I was driving that Tina when

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Speaker 1: I was like seventeen sixty and a half years old.

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Speaker 1: So um um, and I had another job picking up

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Speaker 1: spare parts for another factory. UM. So I was always

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Speaker 1: traveling and then um um. I had two girlfriends at

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Speaker 1: the time. One girlfriend lived in Barns around the corner

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Speaker 1: for malmn Pick and the other girlfriend lived across the street.

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Speaker 1: And whilst going to Barnes every week to see your girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: I would I would just go into Olympic, into the office.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was in there. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what do we called. Your studio was really m

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Speaker 1: apart from they recorded something and I would go in

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Speaker 1: and just say if you've got your jobs and they

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Speaker 1: said no, no. I go back the next week and

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Speaker 1: same thing. Well after the third week, they sort of

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Speaker 1: got fed up with me said okay, what's your name,

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Speaker 1: what's your phone number? So I gave him that information

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Speaker 1: um and then took up another driving job. And then

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Speaker 1: I suddenly got a call for an interview with Keith

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Speaker 1: Grant and went to the studio met Keith, who built

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Speaker 1: Olympic studios who designed it and one of the best

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Speaker 1: recording engineers ever. And Keith showed me around and I

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Speaker 1: was in total or I mean it was it was

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Speaker 1: four track, just moving into eight track and to see

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Speaker 1: that equipment and the console, the Olympic console, and he

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Speaker 1: took me to see the studios terrific and he said, well,

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Speaker 1: I've got some technical questions for you. So I thought,

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Speaker 1: I was ship, here we go. I'm gonna this is

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Speaker 1: not going to happen. And he said, how do you

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Speaker 1: wire a thirteen and plug? You know the words? How

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Speaker 1: do you you know wire a main sac? Well I

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Speaker 1: knew that that was simple and actually built my own

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Speaker 1: little radio at home as well. So um, and that

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Speaker 1: was it. That was the end of the test. So

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Speaker 1: I thought, okay, well, wonderful to meet you. And they

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Speaker 1: just said, well, well, you know, we've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people were talking to and went home a

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Speaker 1: week pass nothing, and then after that I thought, well

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Speaker 1: I better look around for another job. So a girlfriend

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Speaker 1: across the street, her brother had a company that were

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Speaker 1: supermarket fitting. So you traveled around the UK fitting out

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Speaker 1: supermarkets and the the overtime was really good. It was

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Speaker 1: it was driving, which I like it's again. So I

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Speaker 1: was about to start that on a Monday morning, but

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Speaker 1: fortunately Olympic called on the Friday before that Monday and said, hey, Chris,

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Speaker 1: can you come in Monday morning and start for eleven

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Speaker 1: pounds a week? Um, and that was it. Okay, how

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Speaker 1: long did you work, Jingles? How did you go from

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Speaker 1: t boy to assist hto engineer? What was going on there? Um?

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Speaker 1: Pretty quickly? Um, from te boy to tape operator because

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Speaker 1: I had all the skills and knowledge really. Um. The

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Speaker 1: great thing about Keith Grant was that he could see

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Speaker 1: he was a people person, and I think in meeting

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Speaker 1: with me, he knew there was someone there that would

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Speaker 1: really um, would really lock in with other musicians and

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Speaker 1: other engineers. There was a spirit that he, you know,

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Speaker 1: knew was inside me and the love of music as well.

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Speaker 1: So UM. I was an assistant engineer for maybe three

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Speaker 1: three years, which at the time seemed like an eternity

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Speaker 1: because another engineer, another assistant engineer, was doing sessions UM

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Speaker 1: and Keith said, he said, the longer you can stick it,

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Speaker 1: you know, being a taper on different types of sessions,

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Speaker 1: you'll learned so much UM. And that became so true

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Speaker 1: because um so I spent maybe a year and a half,

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Speaker 1: maybe two years assisting Keith on a lot of the

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Speaker 1: film music UM, the Thomas Crown Affair, the original one

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Speaker 1: with Windbles of My Mind, michel Le gram Um. I

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Speaker 1: was assistant on that UM, the Italian Job by Quincy Jones,

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Speaker 1: the assistant on that UM, a lot of Jesus Christ Superstar,

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Speaker 1: assisted on some of that UM, a lot of really

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Speaker 1: good large session UM orchestral sessions UM. And as an

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Speaker 1: assistant you had to set the whole room up UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, if it if it was a fifty or

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Speaker 1: sixty piece orchestra, you would have someone else to help you.

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Speaker 1: But generally it was the assistant engineer's job to set

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Speaker 1: up the whole room so that when the producer or

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Speaker 1: the engineer walked in at like ten am, they could

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Speaker 1: almost just sit down and push the faders up in

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Speaker 1: press record um. UM. That taught me a great lesson actually,

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Speaker 1: which I know still reflect upon today, is that I'm

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Speaker 1: always prepared for anything on the session UM, and to

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Speaker 1: the point where I'll prepare before the artist, before the band,

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Speaker 1: before anyone arrives, because I like to kind of like

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Speaker 1: to take the studio out of the recording process so

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Speaker 1: that the musicians are there to create UM and you

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Speaker 1: enjoy themselves really to you know, to give a great performance. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never forget that from Keith. So after about

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Speaker 1: a year and a half, two years of working on

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Speaker 1: those sessions, I was then asked if i'd like to

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Speaker 1: work the evening sessions, which was the you know, the

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Speaker 1: and the rock and roll music UM. And they said, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna put you on a Glenn John's session. Now

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Speaker 1: I've never met Glenn's. I didn't know who he was.

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Speaker 1: And the other assistants had worked with Glenn, and they said,

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Speaker 1: you better be really careful. Was Glenn suffer snow falls? Um?

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Speaker 1: And um just beyond your guard. So I studied what

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Speaker 1: he wanted, what he needed and the first session he

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Speaker 1: walked in seven pm. Everything was ready to go and

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Speaker 1: he loved it. And then he asked me to be

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Speaker 1: on future sessions. Well, future sessions were things like the Eagles,

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Speaker 1: Steve Miller band, Um Delaney and Bonnie Joe Cocker, UM,

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Speaker 1: Joan Arber Trading UM, look kind of the Eric Clapton,

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Speaker 1: the Kreme de La Krem of that time and period. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then the first time I met the Stones was

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Speaker 1: with Glynn. Okay, wait wait before you go, before you

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Speaker 1: go back that you're working with Glenn, what did what

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Speaker 1: did you learn from him? Specifically? Um? I learned UM

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Speaker 1: I learned are the professionalism in terms of how to

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Speaker 1: inspire and get musicians to deliver U without without them

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Speaker 1: really knowing that they were being kind of you know

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Speaker 1: that was happening to them. U. Encouragement um uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: encouragement come come in different forms. It can um. It

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Speaker 1: can also come in the form of like someone say,

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Speaker 1: well that's a part of crap. You know you can

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Speaker 1: do better, um, which you know it's true. UM. So

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Speaker 1: people take that on boarding and then they lift up

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Speaker 1: their games. So UM. And Glenn just had a great

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Speaker 1: finesse UM and style about his approach to being an

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Speaker 1: engineer producer because he was one of the first freelance

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Speaker 1: engineers term producer UM. And the reason he worked at

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Speaker 1: Olympic a lot was because well, not only did it

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Speaker 1: sound amazing there, but abbey Road wouldn't not let engineers

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Speaker 1: in from outside. If you were an abbey Road engineer,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't work there. And Glenn had grown up working

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Speaker 1: in IBC Studios, which I think it might have still

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Speaker 1: been going, but you know, his career had moved on

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Speaker 1: and he found this wonderful temple of sound that he loves. So. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I learned a lot from Glenn and we're still

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Speaker 1: really very good friends today. Um. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: Glenn's a no bullshit guy, um and doesn't suffer any fools. Um.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm quite as hard nosed as that,

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Speaker 1: but um, I've got my ways. So um, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a wonderful education between So. Then you say

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Speaker 1: you were talking about how your metap Stones. Yeah, that, though,

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Speaker 1: was was an interesting session. The first session so it

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Speaker 1: was brown Sugar, the early days of Brown Sugar. Wait wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: before we get to brown Sugar, you were involved and

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Speaker 1: you were involved and leeds up when three correct? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I was the assistant on that. Yeah. Yeah, I did

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Speaker 1: a lot of sessions with Andy Johns as well. I

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Speaker 1: was flip flopping between the two brothers. So um, two

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Speaker 1: very different styles of producing and recording. Um, both you know,

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Speaker 1: getting incredible results. Um. So Andy I worked with ten

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Speaker 1: years after who I later worked with myself. Um um

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Speaker 1: oh gosh, um more of the heavy m West Bruce

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Speaker 1: and Lang Um Spooky Tooth, Humble Pie, um who else

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Speaker 1: with Andy? I can't remember much else with Andy actually,

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Speaker 1: but quite a lot. You know, people are very interested

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Speaker 1: and leads up in three because of course it was

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Speaker 1: a left turn concerning what came. It had come before

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Speaker 1: any stories, any inside because people you know, whover that

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Speaker 1: stuff up. Yeah. Well I knew the first album obviously

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Speaker 1: because that was recorded Olympic. I wasn't there at the time,

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Speaker 1: but I was in the building, so I knew of

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Speaker 1: the album. And and also that's the album that Glim

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Speaker 1: made with Jimmy so um um led Zeppelin to um

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Speaker 1: Classic and then let's have been three there was. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was a little bit of a missmash in

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Speaker 1: terms of it. Eddie Kramer doing some engineering, Andy John's

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Speaker 1: doing some engineering um um. So but for me that

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Speaker 1: experience have been with them, I've never been impressed by

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Speaker 1: rock and roll stars. I mean the only person that

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Speaker 1: I've ever been kind of not impressed. That's like not

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Speaker 1: the right word. I've um. I'm very easy going in

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Speaker 1: meeting musicians, um. But the only person I've ever been

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Speaker 1: nervous of meeting with Sean Connery. UM. So UM. In

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Speaker 1: working with Zeppelin, it was it was another band, UM,

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Speaker 1: and you know, fantastic to work with. UM. I actually

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Speaker 1: heard the squeak on the bass drum, and since I've

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Speaker 1: been loving you, there's a squeaky bass drum which never

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Speaker 1: got old, and I cherished the thought that it's still there. UM. UM.

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Speaker 1: Working with Jimmy, actually I could you know, I could

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Speaker 1: see Um a genius. But they were all so in

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Speaker 1: tune with each other. And the fact that Jimmy's background,

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Speaker 1: Jimmy's background, you know, came from session in a session musician. UM.

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Speaker 1: Same with John Paul Jones. So, UM, that was an

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Speaker 1: exciting thing to happen that you've got basically the session

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Speaker 1: musicians who get together from you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest bands in rock and roll. So let's go back

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Speaker 1: to Brown Sugar. Okay, So the session for Round Sugar

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Speaker 1: seven PM. I've got the whole room set up. I've

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Speaker 1: never worked with the Stones before. Glynn gave me the

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Speaker 1: line up, set it all up. UM. Stew had arrived

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Speaker 1: to you know, put the amps up and set them

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Speaker 1: up in Stuart. UM. I didn't realize that Stew was

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Speaker 1: in the band at that time, I thought he was there,

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Speaker 1: you know, the roadie UM UM and seven o'clock, no

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Speaker 1: one arrived. Seven thirty eight o'clock, no and arrived. So

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Speaker 1: I just sat there waiting and about quarter past eight,

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Speaker 1: UM two people walked into the recording area. Now the

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Speaker 1: control room is quite away from the entry to the

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Speaker 1: recording area, so I see these two characters come in.

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Speaker 1: I did not think they were to do with the band.

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Speaker 1: I thought, then they look a bit shifty. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: So I called security and said that there's two guys

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Speaker 1: have just walked in. I don't think they're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be here. It turned out to be Bill and Charlie UM.

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Speaker 1: So that was my first introduction to them, which was great.

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Speaker 1: And then Glenn followed him behind UM and everything was

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Speaker 1: fine after that. UM and then UM and working with

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Miller was an inspiration. UM. I learned a lot

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Speaker 1: about the feel of a record, the feel of a

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Speaker 1: band playing together, because I'm all, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: all I'm like a big sponge taking all this information

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Speaker 1: in because coming from the love of of U film scores,

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Speaker 1: musical scores, freights and Archer nat King Cole coming from

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Speaker 1: that area of music. This is very very different, very different,

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Speaker 1: but just as powerful, UM and just as illustrating. So UM.

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Speaker 1: So in starting assisting on the Brown Sugar Sorry that

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Speaker 1: the Sticky Fingers album, that was it the Sticky Fingers album. UM.

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Speaker 1: Some of those tracks have been recorded in the States,

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Speaker 1: some mixed house at Star Groves, UM, some in the

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Speaker 1: Olympic m I kind of I got the impression that

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Speaker 1: Glenn um Glim was kind of interested still in the sessions,

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Speaker 1: but not much with the band. And I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that he you know, he'd been working with the band

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Speaker 1: from day one, you know, from before they even got signed,

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Speaker 1: so he had a long tenure with them, and and

385
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Speaker 1: that the next thing, you know, after after they finished

386
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Speaker 1: working with Glenn, then they worked with Keith Harvard on

387
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Speaker 1: Black and Blue. And Keith Harvard was an Olympic engineer,

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Speaker 1: so we were good friends. Keith also worked with Zeppelin,

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of Zepplin stuff. UM, we were

390
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Speaker 1: very close. And then I think it was on that album,

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Speaker 1: on the Sticky Fingers album that UM I ended up

392
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Speaker 1: doing overdubs with Mick, but did vocal overdubs with Mick.

393
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Speaker 1: I recorded the saxophone on Brown Sugar with Bobby Bobby

394
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Speaker 1: Keys Um and I think at that that moment in time,

395
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Speaker 1: Stut and Glenn, who were very very close they had

396
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: been for years, I think they kind of had a

397
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Speaker 1: little chat thinking about in the future who might work

398
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Speaker 1: with the Stones, okay, and what they decide. Well, what

399
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Speaker 1: happened was later a few years, some years later, after

400
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Speaker 1: Black and Blue and what else came after that. It's

401
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Speaker 1: only rock and roll, like, um, I was. I just

402
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: got back from the States doing Peeda Frampton's Frampton Comes

403
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: to Live album. Um And I arrived home and just

404
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: got in the front door and about to unpack my

405
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: suitcase and the phone rings and it's Stey and Stuart.

406
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Speaker 1: He said, Chris, what you're doing? And I said, oh great,

407
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Speaker 1: Stu just got home, gonna I'm back and check out

408
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Speaker 1: for you know, a few weeks. He said, no, you're not.

409
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Speaker 1: He said, don't unpack, You're coming to Paris on Monday.

410
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Speaker 1: You're doing the next Stones album. And that was some girls, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go back. So you work on Sticky Fingers. Do

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Speaker 1: you end up working with Frampton? Okay? Um. I was

413
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Speaker 1: the assistant on a French artist called Johnny Halliday, and

414
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Speaker 1: Johnny Holliday was the that the French elvis huge, huge

415
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Speaker 1: in France. Um, if you're with Johnny you can't go

416
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Speaker 1: out anywhere you get mobbed. I mean he was a

417
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Speaker 1: serious star, bless him. And I was the assistant on

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Speaker 1: one of the albums that he was making, the Olympic

419
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Speaker 1: and on on the second day, the staff engineer never

420
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Speaker 1: turned up because he didn't like the French. So there's

421
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Speaker 1: Johnny and the producer and the band turning up with

422
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Speaker 1: no engineer. So they said to the management, well who

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Speaker 1: can we use um And a few names were mentioned.

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Speaker 1: They said, well, we really like Chris. We've only worked

425
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Speaker 1: with him one day, but we really like him. Can

426
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: we use Chris? So that was kind of my launching pad.

427
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: That was my first session in the hot seat, as

428
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: it were. UM. And that session, the band that Lee

429
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: had a Johnny's producer had assembled was Gary Wright, Hugh McCracken,

430
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: Ringo Star, Klaus Worman, Peter Frampton. Um. You know, it

431
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: was a dream session, UM for Johnny and for me.

432
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: So I got to work with those musicians at a

433
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: very early age and UM, and that kind of started

434
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: my friendship with Peter. I'd know him, Peter and Humble

435
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: Pie UM and UM from the Johnny sessions we became

436
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: really really good friends. UM. We used to hang out

437
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: a lot together. We both I discovered a love of

438
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: two things in that time of Tamila Motown music and

439
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: the Scar music as well. UM. I actually used to

440
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: go to a Scar club down in a surbiton um

441
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: Chessington actually um about ten miles out of London. I said,

442
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: loves of ska music and Pete and I would you know,

443
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: we start for you know, ages listening to Stevie Wonder

444
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: listening to Tamla Motown UM and kind of you know,

445
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: get so excited about the drum sound, the vocal everything

446
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: about it um UM. And so that was a really

447
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: introduction to a lot of key musicians that I went

448
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: on to work with later. I worked with Gary Wright

449
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: later on with Spooky Tooth. As I said Peter, UM,

450
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: so that was that was a big break for me actually,

451
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: UM and I went on to produce I think six

452
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: albums with Johnny Halliday in my career UM and some

453
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: big big records UM Live at the Park, the Prince

454
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: UM two. I think to live albums or three live albums,

455
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: and to studio albums, and we were really really good friends,

456
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: really good friends. Apart from the music, we we just

457
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: really enjoyed each other's company. Um So, I missed him

458
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot. At one point, you leave staff at Olempic

459
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: and go independent. What are the decisions in there? Um?

460
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: I can't remember which year it was, but I was

461
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: becoming as a an engineer, as becoming, you know, I

462
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: had so much work I would obviously I would always

463
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: do Olympic because of the Olympic staff engineer. But then

464
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: opportunities came along with bands who wanted to do it

465
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: at other studios. So I decided I would leave Olympic

466
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: as a staff engineer and become freelance, which I did.

467
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: Um and then then I discovered the joy of you know,

468
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: working in other studios, other environments, which I loved doing.

469
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Um So. I used to work a lot at Basing

470
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: Street Studios, which was Island Records that became PSALM years later.

471
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: UM I used to work at Rack Studios. UM I

472
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: worked at a place in Kent called Escape Studios with

473
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: a band called Marmalade and Jeff Beck lived around the corner,

474
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: so Jeff was always popping in UM and then Alvin

475
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: Lee Halving had his own studio in his house at

476
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: Hook and Manner. I worked there, um, and then working

477
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: with Johnny. I was in Paris a lot, doing sessions

478
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: with Johnny in Paris as well. UM, so became almost

479
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: like a gypsy, which I really enjoyed. You know, I'm

480
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: only like my early mid twenties now m seventy one, um,

481
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: and really moving around quite a lot. And then of

482
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: course Paris with the Stones, which was I mean collectively

483
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: maybe seven years of my life working with them and

484
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: doing you know, the three albums. Um, actually not seven

485
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: years of my life in Paris, but we would have

486
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: spent collectively maybe two two and a half years making

487
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: those albums in Paris. Okay, let's go back a chapter three.

488
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: Frampton announces he's leaving Humble Pie just before the PM

489
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: breaks pick. Then he puts out four solo albums before

490
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: he has the live album. First album. I just love

491
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: that with you know by your side, when to change, unbelievable.

492
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: That was one of my favorite. That's the first album

493
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: that I worked with Peter on and um he very

494
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: kindly gave me an associate producer credit, which I didn't

495
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: didn't understand what a producer credit was at that time,

496
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: but it certainly helped. Um um Um. You know he

497
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: was very nervous making that album, very excited but nervous

498
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: because he was solo that the songs on the album.

499
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: And I remember getting Jim Price and Jim Horn to

500
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 1: do the horns on on the Stones song that he covered. Um,

501
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: and that that version I can't remember which song is it.

502
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: Do remember what jumping Jack JUMPI Jack fashicles is Yeah,

503
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: ba ba ba ba, but yeah, um that version is

504
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: still one of my favorite versions of a Stone song actually. Um.

505
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of magical moments on that

506
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: album that I could talk about forever. There was one

507
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: where we recorded over another day. We recorded it in

508
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: the stairwell at Olympic. Um. Um, you can hear a

509
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: seven four seven flying across about I think two minutes. Um.

510
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: It's that, you know, we couldn't get rid of it obviously. Um.

511
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: And it was only when you had like one one

512
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: jone bell jet every half an hour, not every three minutes.

513
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: So um um that that was a beautiful moment. Um.

514
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: And Peter's guitar sound as well. Um, that's when I

515
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: discovered quite a unique way of recording his little Ampeg

516
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: amplifier with two microphones, one at the front and one

517
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: at the back. Um. And yeah, that that was just

518
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: the absolute, um wonderful journey with Peter. And then and

519
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: then after that was what was it? Well before we

520
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: get I know that the album. Before we get to that,

521
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: you mentioned I M pig. Tell me about since we're here,

522
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: tell me about your feelings of the sounds of different amps,

523
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: different microphones, different boards. How deep into that are you?

524
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: You have favorites, things that don't work. Um. I do

525
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: remember when the SSL desk came out that a lot

526
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: of people were either you know, excited about it. A

527
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't like it. They didn't like the

528
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: sound of it. Um. I made some great records on

529
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: the SSL desks. Although I'm um, I use any piece

530
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: of equipment to get what I want from it rather

531
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: than expecting it to do something. UM that the Nave

532
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: console has a terrific sound. I mean every console has

533
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: a sound to me. UM. The Olympic console, the nine

534
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: console and the console which were built at Olympic for

535
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: Olympic by Olympics. They were two of the best sounding

536
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 1: consoles UM I've ever heard. They musicality was really impressive.

537
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: The same with the NAVE, but the controls are very

538
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: different and you have to know how to add or

539
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: subtract um the EQ that you're using on those. The

540
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: problem with the SSL was you only had to turn

541
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: the game NB just even on, and you had three

542
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: dB barking at you. So you have to be very

543
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: very careful, and I think a lot of engineers, lot

544
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: producers overcooked the records and they started to sound a

545
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: bit skinny and thin. Um. But the advantages of the

546
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: SSL soon became that with you know, with with lots

547
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: of multi track happening, with for the eight track happening,

548
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: you could alternate the faders, so that was pretty handy

549
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: rather than um all hands on deck. Although I was

550
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: never a fan of faulty eight track recording, I'm still

551
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: not UM. I still apply my discipline and my creative

552
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: discipline in recording as if were an eight track or

553
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: a sixteen track, or maybe a twenty four track, because

554
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: it's so much easy to mix anything when you've only

555
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 1: got to deal with sixteen faders or twenty four the

556
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: most you know, when you've got like forty eight seventy two,

557
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,399
Speaker 1: it's um it's yeah, it's okay, but it's it's not fun.

558
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: It's not it's not a performance mix um everything. It

559
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: becomes very linearized and very controlled. And a lot of

560
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: records that I like, and a lot of records that

561
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people love. You know, we all talk

562
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: about their um the great sounds and the recording some

563
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: of the sixties, seventies, and eighties, and they're they're they're

564
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: full of what people would say today, well they are.

565
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: They're full of mishaps, mistakes, They're they're full of you know,

566
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: some tuning problems, some timing issues. But that's what makes

567
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: the record human. That's what makes it possible to listen

568
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: to it again and again and again. When you know,

569
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: when I hear records that have all been quantized and

570
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: they're all just snapped to a grid um, that music

571
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: goes in, you know, in one ear, and you know,

572
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 1: after about two or three plays, it's like, Okay, don't

573
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: really even to hear that anymore because I'm not getting

574
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: anything from it. Okay. In terms of ems and Mike's UM, well,

575
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: growing up in studios in the in the sixties and seventies,

576
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, all you had was you just had you

577
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: sixty seventhsmen sixty sevenths you forty sevens A KG four

578
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: one fours m A k G D thirties, which is

579
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: the best past Dr Mike ever. Um so um, you

580
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: were really you didn't know that these microphones were but

581
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: well as good until many years later and you kind

582
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: of figured out, well, that's why that sounds so good,

583
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: because you've got that beautiful valve microphone going into a

584
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: tape machine and analog tape. Um. So um, they're my

585
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: favorite microphones, but I must say that Sure also on

586
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: the top of my list. Some time ago I was

587
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: invited by Sure with Eddie Kramer to beta test the

588
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: k S M forty four, which is Sure's kind of

589
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: version of a U eighty seven but a fraction of

590
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: the cost um and Eddie and I spent a good

591
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: year or maybe two years in beta testing different versions

592
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: and helping them get it right. So only I think

593
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: it was three years ago. Two years ago I had

594
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: a master class at Kingston University UM and as part

595
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: of the session UM I picked out four microphones and

596
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: we had a blind shootout test with myself and the

597
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: students as to what microphones sounded best and on the

598
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: selection of instruments, not just one instrument. And this was

599
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: a semi classical recording, so it was an electric guitar.

600
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: There's nothing electrical, it's all it was. Remember it was piano, celestue,

601
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, violin um, clarinet, um. And I was so amazed.

602
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean I really couldn't believe it that the Shore

603
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: beat are you eighty seven? It beat a four one

604
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: four everything we put up, but there was one other

605
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: I can't remember the other one one was but um

606
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: they were old new versions of old microphones with this

607
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: shure O case forty four and the Shore one. Every

608
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 1: time it was like surreal. So I think sure for

609
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: doing that. And amps and outboard gear, guitar amps yeah, um,

610
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: oh gosh wow, I think small old fenders. There's too

611
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: many now, I mean I don't have any. I like

612
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: the amps that the guitar player gets a great sound

613
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: and he knows the the fire. I mean, I'm not

614
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: working with musicians who don't have an app that they

615
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: love and they know how to play and get a

616
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: result from um so um. Usually I'm working with people

617
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: that have got terrific amplifiers, UM an out ball gear

618
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: That's an interesting question because I'm in the middle of

619
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: building a new studio at Olympic now when we've got

620
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: We've got a nineteen seventy one leave console that's been

621
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: completely restored. I've got eight of the sorry twelve of

622
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: the original Olympic nineteen sixty six and nine Mike and EQS,

623
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: Mike pres and EQUS, so we've got that covered. And

624
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: I was looking at our balls stuff and there's so

625
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: much out there now. But really all I need is

626
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: a couple of compressors, maybe a notch filter, an echo plate.

627
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: That would be great, UM, because everything else is you know,

628
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: it's unplug ins. UM. You know I I don't have

629
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: a problem, UM with digital at all, although I do

630
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: know that some of the most enjoyable records to work

631
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: on and to mix and to live with have been

632
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: recorded on analog and then put into pro tools. UM.

633
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: I did this on two of the master classes that

634
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: I was talking about, where UM, the the university has

635
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: a twenty four track student and I'll only teach a

636
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: UNI where they have analog tape machines because that's where

637
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: it all comes from for me. UM. Talking about the discipline. UM,

638
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: wonderful times with the students and the musicians. Because these

639
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 1: musicians are young musicians, they actually haven't recorded on analog before,

640
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: so to give them that experience was quite fascinating. UM.

641
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: In terms of like, um, where you can't tell me

642
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: now that you want to over another xylophone because we've

643
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: only got one track left, so I'm gonna have to

644
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: bounce down the violins and the viola onto one track.

645
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: They go, yeah, but we can change it. They can't.

646
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: We say no, that's it. It's and at first they've

647
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: very nervous, and then two hours later they can completely

648
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: forget about it. Yeah, because it's done. And and that's

649
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: another thing about you know, making great records, is that um,

650
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: with all the options in digital world now, where people

651
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 1: aren't committing to a balance UM, it's um. I think

652
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: that makes for very strange sounding records. And the beauty

653
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: of bouncing something down isn't really a restriction because you're

654
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: committing to it and you're building your sound around that sound,

655
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: rather than trying to build a sound collectively from a

656
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: hundred tracks or whatever you've got. And in terms of electronics,

657
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: studio amps make a difference what speakers you listen to,

658
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: what speakers you mix on UM speakers. Yeah, that's a

659
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: wonderful question. Um um I I I like PMC speakers.

660
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in front of a pair now, I of Proact.

661
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: I've got three bears of pro Act. I traveled all

662
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: around the world with pro Rex. There might go to

663
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: little speaker with a Bryson amplifier. UM. I've also um

664
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: um amphion speaker. UM. I was introduced to them maybe

665
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: five years ago, I think when they when they first

666
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: appeared in the UK, and I was working with a

667
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: artist from Norway. UM great blues guitar player called Um

668
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: Area Linton. UM. I think that's happened outside the last day.

669
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: We can't remember. Area An Area knew the the the

670
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: the guy who made these speakers. So this they sent

671
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: them over for me to listen to, and I didn't

672
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: get on with them. But then four years later I

673
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: was doing a show with a p I UH and

674
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: they had the new versions of the speakers, and they

675
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: blew me away. I mean I preferred those two putting

676
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: anything I heard that day because I could listen to

677
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: them for hours and hours and not get fatigued. Not

678
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: that I listened allowed volume um anymore. Um but they

679
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: were just really beautiful to listen to. And I like

680
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: a speaker where I can close my eyes and not

681
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: think of the speaker or know what a speaker it is.

682
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: You know some speakers, I go, that's a JB L.

683
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: That don't like that, that that's a Genelect Jenna lets

684
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: are great, but they've got their own sound, so if

685
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: you know that, you can work with them. Every speaker's

686
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: got its own identity. Um. Although a speaker, like a product,

687
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: is so flat, it doesn't have an identity, but people don't.

688
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: Some people don't like that, so you have to work

689
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: harder to get a good mix out of that. Which

690
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: brings me back to the Yamaha, the black NS ten

691
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: that we all used to use, um and a p

692
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: over the over the twitter that was Bobby clear Mountain's discovery,

693
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: an antissue paper over the tweeter. Um and um, and

694
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: sure they you had to really work hard to get

695
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: something to sound good on those shitty little speakers. But

696
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: once you've got it sounded great, it would translate everywhere. UM.

697
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: So I'm very I'm always not sure of speakers when

698
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: someone says to me, it's the best sounding speakers. Okay,

699
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: So you play something UM that you've mixed or recorded

700
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: and you know, sure it's gonna sound big good because

701
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: it's already good. But if you're working on that speaking

702
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: from scratch, it's a different you know, I think it's

703
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: a different Kettler Fish. You mentioned the brace and the amplifier.

704
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,720
Speaker 1: Are you someone who uh you know different the amplify

705
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: amplifier types, different brands are not as specific on that,

706
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: not so specific, but I do. I've worked. I've been

707
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: working a lot with you know, dsp amplifiers built into speakers,

708
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: and I find that my ears I get fatigued a

709
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: lot quicker than I do with as if I'm using

710
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: a analog amplithia UM with speakers on the end of

711
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: it UM. So I don't know if that's my age

712
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: or it's just my brain. Let's just while we're on

713
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: this topic, let's just go to the digital analog in

714
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: terms of okay, you know they have now playback at

715
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: a much higher resolution even then c D, whether you're okay,

716
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: And then we have this analog revolution with vinyl, with

717
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: things cut digitally whereas opposed to something that was originally

718
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: cut analog. What are your feelings about all this well

719
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: it it seems to me that it's all going to

720
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: end up on digits anyway. Even if you record it

721
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: on analog, you mix it on analog, it's going to

722
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: get into digits. I need to be on you know,

723
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: to be on streaming on Apple Spotify, or if if

724
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: you're making a vinyl record only, you're still okay, you'll

725
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: have the stereo, you have the stereo mixtape to take

726
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: to have the mastering done for your vinyl. But there's

727
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: not any other situations. I don't think where you're going

728
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: to use that stereo tape to create an analog master

729
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: for an analog source like a vinyl record. So um,

730
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: I think that's a very limited, very niche market. Well,

731
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: we're an agreement on that, But the question would become,

732
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: if we're going with digital or vinyl, where do you

733
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: come down on that argument? Can I just stay with analog?

734
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: You could stay with the analog. But but you're saying

735
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: we're living in a digital world unlike when we grew up.

736
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: Music is a portable one of the you know, I

737
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: think you know, the sound has affected what music we get.

738
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: You know, we have the compression wars, the loudness wars,

739
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: and then of course we have Spotify equing everything. And

740
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: this is all affected. If you go back through the

741
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: stereo revolution of the sixties and seventies, people had great systems,

742
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: people mix for that. Now people are listening on earbuds,

743
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: we have beats with you know, push base. So I

744
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: agree we're really living in a digital world. And as

745
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,240
Speaker 1: you stated earlier, analog you know, is a minor factor,

746
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: but it punches above its weight in terms of inc

747
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: You know, we have this a lot of society, not

748
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: only in music. We're constantly reading about vinyl, even though

749
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: you and me know it's a very small part of

750
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: the marketplace. We also know that the average person doesn't

751
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: have the playback equipment of a quality that they could

752
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: even tell the difference. But if you have a typical

753
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: this point three thousand dollar system and it's the it

754
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: starts as digital, what do you prefer the end digital

755
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: product or the analog product? Or is it subtle? Do

756
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: you hear a difference? Now? I can hear if a

757
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: record has been recorded on analog tight and then put

758
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: into digital and release as opposed to a digital digital.

759
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: I could actually hear that um and also I can

760
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: feel it as well. Uh, I kind of it resonates

761
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: in my mind and my body in a different way. Um,

762
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: I am. That's funny you mentioned that because I feel

763
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: my example was, you know, the early days of c

764
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: D s. I put and I got I never want

765
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: to have any clipping, any distortion. I got plenty of power. Yeah,

766
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: And I got the A C D C back in

767
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: black c D and I crank it. My ears are bleeding, Okay.

768
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 1: Then I put on the vinyl LP and your ears

769
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: didn't lead. You know, it's like in the whole house

770
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: shakes and you feel some people might say you're hearing

771
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: the distortion, but it's night and day. It is night

772
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: and day. I totally agree with you. And if I

773
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: have so many c DS that I never played anymore,

774
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: now I've got thousands upon thousands my vinyl which I've

775
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: got about six thousands. I played them every day. I mean,

776
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: you know, there's always something out on the turntable. But

777
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: the CDs, it's only the you know, the quick availability

778
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: of them. Um that uh yeah, and um so I'm

779
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: not sure where alive with this one. I mean, I

780
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: just love the sound of analog. I know it's going

781
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: to end up in the digital format. Somehow, because no

782
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: one's going to be listening to analog real to real.

783
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: No one's gonna be listening to cassettes. No one's going

784
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: to be listening to a analog tape that goes straight

785
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: onto vinyl. But um, I think if you can keep

786
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: analog in the chain somewhere, you know, you're preserving some

787
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: some part of that magic, some part of that thing

788
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: that you and I hear and love so much. Um.

789
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: So let's be black and black, black and white. If

790
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,479
Speaker 1: it's digitally from beginning to end, Does it make any

791
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: sense to put it on a vinyl record? No, I

792
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: don't think it does. Now you might as well be

793
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: split on the CD. Um. Yeah, yeah, you know, I

794
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: find it's to finish it makes more sense. Yeah, because

795
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: in fact, put it on vinyl, you're gonna have to

796
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: roll off everything below fifty sides, so and to say

797
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 1: at the top end as well. So it's yeah, that's

798
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: not working at all. I recently I do a lot

799
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 1: of mastering as well. But mastering I would never pertain

800
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 1: to be the mastering engineer like Bob Ludwig or my

801
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: friend Ray stuff. But I do do a lot of

802
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: mastering to help UM people who you know who have

803
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: kind of would I say, problem albums um or need

804
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: some real lifts, something different in it. And I do

805
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: things like I'll add rever to the whole mix in

806
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: the chorus. Because the mixes flat, the mixesn't happening. They

807
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: don't have the money to go and remix it or it,

808
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: but I can help it by doing that. So UM,

809
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: I love doing the mastering. And and I actually mastered

810
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: something a few months ago that was from cassette and

811
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 1: it sounded amazing. I mean it really did sound warm

812
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 1: and beautiful and of that moment um. You know, there

813
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: was a bit of hiss, but you can you can

814
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: get rid of that easy enough. UM. And it was

815
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: just sound enjoyable to listen to again and again and again.

816
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: I really have to thing about analog tape. I can

817
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: listen to any recorded performance UM that's been recorded the

818
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: originally an analog, even if it's gone into digital later,

819
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: and it pleased me a lot more than listening to

820
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: something that's digital digital digital. Okay, when do you start

821
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 1: mixing records as supposed to just recording them? Um? When

822
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: did I start just mixing records? UM? I don't think

823
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: there's many records that I've only mixed. Actually I think

824
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: generally i've I've always recorded and then mixed everything. Um.

825
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: It was the opposite way round where Um, I do

826
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: remember fondly um when it must have been. It was

827
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: Missed You with the Stones, and i'd mixed the album.

828
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: Um and Earl McGrath, who was the president of the

829
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: Stones label at that time, lovely man not with us anymore,

830
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: but true gentleman, his best man at my at my wedding,

831
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: um um and um sorry not the best man he

832
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: was at the wedding. And a he had this um

833
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 1: young kid at the power station that was just started

834
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: to mix people's records who he's really a champion him

835
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: and his name was Bob clear Mounting. So there was

836
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: an The first time I heard that someone else was

837
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: going to mix my recording, I got really piste off

838
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: and I was really like, well, what the fun's going

839
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: on there? And then a one the full thing happened. Um.

840
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: A few months after that record came out, after Miss

841
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: You came out, I was working in Los Angeles and

842
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: I was driving down pc H as you would do,

843
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: maybe not now, but then you could. And I remember

844
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: it fundly. I'd have rented Mustang and I had the

845
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: hood down. I was blasting the radio and Miss You

846
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: came on and I'm listening to it. I'm going, ship man,

847
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: Bob is a genius. This sounds freaking awesome. This is fantastic,

848
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: really really excited. And and then um, the difference between

849
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 1: Bob's mix and my mix was is that Bobby's mix

850
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: was the edited version and my mix was the unedited version.

851
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: So my mix had the sax solo at the end,

852
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,919
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the sax solo came on

853
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: and I went, oh, ship this isn't Bobby's mix, It's

854
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: my mix. And that at that point I dropped all,

855
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: you know, kind of hostility to was anyone who had

856
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 1: to remix something that I would recorded, because I figured

857
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: out as long as i'd recorded it and got the

858
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: groove and the sound and got it in the pocket

859
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 1: from the you know, from the get go, it would

860
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: you had to be stupid to fuck it up in

861
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: mixing it, in remixing it. And I've always stuck by that,

862
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: although I won't stick by that now with Dolby Atmos mixing,

863
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: because I've had some experience with that which we might

864
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: get too later. I don't know, I definitely do want

865
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: to get to that. But but reversing the question, what

866
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: was the first record or when did you start not

867
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: only recording the records but also mixing them. Um, well,

868
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: thee the Fountain albums that would have been would have

869
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: been one period, that would have been one set of records. Um.

870
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 1: I'm actually looking at my cv nows um. I had

871
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,760
Speaker 1: to print it out because I appear on seventy seven albums.

872
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: I think it was something ridiculous. Um um okay, so

873
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: killing Joke, Love like Blood, night Time, Brider than the

874
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 1: Thousand Sons, recorded them, mixed all of that, although although

875
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: some years later and brighter in the Thousand Sons, the

876
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: record company got Julian, the Australian mixer Julian. What's Julian's

877
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: last name? Um? M hm uh and Julian was a

878
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,240
Speaker 1: very good mixer, but kind of flavor of the month

879
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: when the album came out. So and then many years

880
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: later my mixes were released um on another version and

881
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: it was just nice to see that the fans appreciated

882
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: my mixes as much as Julian's mixes. UM Marillion Um

883
00:55:54,560 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 1: Diesel part West, Johnny Halliday, the Proclaimers Bill Wyman ten

884
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: years after UM I recently recently remixed the Spacing Time

885
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: for Chrystalist Records because it's the fourtieth anniversary of that album.

886
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: UM And that album was a real special special experience

887
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,479
Speaker 1: for me and Alvin as well in terms of it

888
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: was kind of Alvin. It was there almost like their

889
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper. It was the first album that they used

890
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: string arrangements on UM and Alvin and I were like

891
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: sonic fairies. We would really we wanted to push the

892
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 1: boundaries of of sound. Um So in in mixing the

893
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: album again forty years later, um So it was recorded

894
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: in seventy nine, I think I think it was UM

895
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: and it was on sixteen track so um it was

896
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: in pro tools. You know, the analog had been dumped

897
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: into protols. UM And There's two ways that one can

898
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: mix an album or even produce some recording an album.

899
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: One is you record it faithfully, honestly of what you're

900
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: hearing in the studio. There's nothing much to do with

901
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: it other than capture an incredible performance, you know, instilling

902
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: that in the musicians great rhythm section, or get the

903
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: band to a level where they're performing at their best

904
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,439
Speaker 1: and you press the re call back with the write

905
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: microphones to right console and you get it. Then there's

906
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: the one where UM, you capture that same those same ingredients,

907
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: but knowingly that when you mix it, you're gonna mess

908
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: with it, You're going to really experiment with it. UM.

909
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: And that's what I discovered in remixing the Space in

910
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: Time album because UM, I loaded the multi track in

911
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: the sixteen track and we didn't even use all sixteen

912
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: tracks either, so it wasn't as if there was a

913
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: a pilet of information there. But what we did, what

914
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: Alvin and I did with those mixes was unbelievable. I couldn't.

915
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: It took me. It took me about three days to

916
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: mix each song to try and figure out what the

917
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: hell I'd done because they just sounded so good. UM.

918
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: And we only had a e M T echo plate,

919
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: two compressors. UM. We had the Olympic console, which thankfully

920
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: Eddie Cramer did a clone e q U of the

921
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: same desk that I recorded on the HLS Cramer e

922
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: Q and also a pie a limitter because we have

923
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:40,959
Speaker 1: PIO limits there. UM, the echo plate, tape delay. Anna

924
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: Leslie now that Leslie I used to great extent because

925
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: I was I think I'm really right in saying that

926
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: when I mixed, I'd love to change the world. It

927
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: was the Leslie that gave it the identical, identifiable sound

928
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: um that you know, added to the atmosphere of the record.

929
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: UH created that you know, that great song that hit

930
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: um and other Leslie sounds had not been heard really

931
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: as prominent as that before. So um it was a

932
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: real challenge and quite wonderful to go back um um.

933
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: I could actually I got into a position where I

934
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: could almost remember how I was mixing it um because

935
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: mixes them were a performance, you know, they weren't all

936
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 1: um on the computer, so you could nudge this little

937
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,439
Speaker 1: bit there, that little bit there. It really was like

938
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: you'd start from zero and then you'd end up at

939
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: plus eight or somewhere in riding the faders um um,

940
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 1: and and even arranging the mix on the go. Of course,

941
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: the other way to do that would be to mix

942
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: it in sections and edited together as well, which I

943
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: did with the LP. So um that was it was

944
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: a really good journey to go back um um you know,

945
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: um test my knowledge of how I made that sound,

946
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: and I look forward to sharing that with students as well.

947
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: Actually it was really good. Okay, let's stay on that point.

948
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: Remixing professionals learned how to get the most out of digital.

949
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: Record companies wanted to milk the audience for more money,

950
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: so they were constantly equeuing records remastering them on digital.

951
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: But then it became an issue remix. There's this guy,

952
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: Steven Wilson did Jo throw tall, a lot of other things.

953
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: He literally remixes to sound exactly like the original, only cleaner. Yeah,

954
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: I know Stephen, I know Stephen, and in fact he's

955
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: I mean that's a real task because he's remixing something

956
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: we know. He wasn't there any original sessions. He's got

957
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: no notes, he's got a multi check, he doesn't know

958
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: what solo was used, what vocal was used. I mean,

959
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: it's a month's worth of detective work before he can

960
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: even in, you know, at the leaves sting of mixing it. Um.

961
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's um. I wouldn't have the patients to

962
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: do that, Okay. So in any event, they sound Donna

963
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: called to the originals, but cleaner you go to the

964
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: Beatles remixes and not good with Giles but I find

965
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: it's offensive. These are classic records one of the other,

966
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: and I'm worried that the remixes will take over from

967
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: the originals as time goes on. Well, the only take

968
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: over if that that's the only thing is available. UM

969
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 1: and And I totally agree with you about I really

970
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: I've had some big wars and problems with with record

971
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: companies remastering a record I've recalled him mixed produced um and.

972
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: It's gone from label to label to label over the

973
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: last thirty years, and each time it ends up with

974
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: the new label they remastering, It's like, we got it

975
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: right the first time, Why are you fucking with it again?

976
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: One big problem for me was when UM, I think

977
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: this was about five years ago, UM them Some Girls

978
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: was reissued and remastered UM and UM. I wasn't sent

979
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: anything to approve it. Um. The only time I got

980
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: to hear it was when I bought it or downloaded it,

981
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: and I was terrified at what I heard. I mean,

982
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: I was really in shock. It was terrible. It had

983
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 1: been compressed to death. It was that whole a loudness

984
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: war thing, and it didn't even it didn't sound like

985
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: the same record that I made I mean, it's hard

986
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: to believe that remastering can screw screw something up so much,

987
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: but it can. So I complained to The Stones, to

988
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: the management, um, and I just got a reply back saying, well,

989
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: it's got a five star review. You know it's okay.

990
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: And then three months later I looked on Amazon and

991
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: everyone was saying this is atrocious. I want my money back.

992
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: It's a load of crap. And every review was the same.

993
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: So you know, I stick with my original statement. UM.

994
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, remastering. There's only been a few remasterings that

995
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed. Mom was the Peter Tosh album that

996
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: I did, and that was we mastered. Um. Um Abbey

997
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: Road that did sound really really good. Um. And Jimmy

998
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 1: Cliff album Um Special that we master sounding good, but

999
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 1: Old Merillian sounding good too. Um. It's um yeah. Mainly

1000
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 1: the Stones is quite it's quite atrocious. Okay, go back

1001
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: to space in time the ten years after album. What

1002
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: is your goal in remixing it? If I know the original, Well,

1003
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: how will I hear the remix? What might be different? Um?

1004
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 1: A little bit like what you said about Steve Wilson

1005
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: is that there's a there's more clarity, especially on the

1006
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: drum sound um and the vocal sound um. Trying to

1007
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 1: get the guitar sounds the same as the album that

1008
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: was a Allen's as well, um um. But definitely the

1009
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: drums because um, we would have mixed those songs maybe

1010
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: well definitely like to maybe three mixes a day. I mean,

1011
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: we didn't spend a lot of time that one does

1012
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: or or went on to do in mixing. Um. So

1013
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: the drums, I think, of anything, will possibly suffer because

1014
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: the drums were recorded on either two tracks or three

1015
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: tracks um um. So it was quite limited at the

1016
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 1: time with what you could do with that if you

1017
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 1: really wanted to mess with it. So um, there's definitely

1018
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot more clarity all around, I think. Um. And

1019
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: also there were a couple of tracks on the album

1020
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: the original mixes why I always felt that the vocals

1021
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: were a little bit too low. UM. So I did

1022
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: push those up a tiny bit, but I respected and

1023
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: I think any anyone who has asked to remix anything.

1024
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I was fortunate because I recorded the original,

1025
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: so you know, at least I had a clue, well

1026
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: the big clue of course of me. So um. But

1027
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: in sending something an album that to a mixer who's

1028
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: not been involved with it at all, who doesn't even

1029
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: really know the music, but it's just been asked to

1030
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: remix it was the label, you know, the copyrights running out,

1031
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: and they want to you know, remix it to reissue it.

1032
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: I think that's really dangerous and I think the major

1033
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: record companies, if they're going to continue doing that, they

1034
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: should actually form like a consultium of of producers and

1035
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: mixes from that period who, you know, at least have

1036
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: some consultation with whoever they're farming it out to to mix,

1037
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,959
Speaker 1: you know, to make sure there's respect to the original record. Okay,

1038
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:44,919
Speaker 1: let's go back to Frampton. He puts out the first

1039
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: record most people have no idea who Free Empton is,

1040
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: makes some impact, then forms the band Camel. Not as

1041
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,000
Speaker 1: good as a first record, but very good. You talk

1042
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: about Tamla Motown. There's a great cover of I Believe

1043
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: When I Fall in Love with You will Be Forever

1044
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:05,920
Speaker 1: Ward album. Something's happening, artistic and commercial disappointment. Fourth album

1045
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: when many people have given up, an incredible home run

1046
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 1: Fampton and Yeah, and then all of a sudden there's

1047
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: the Comes Alive double album, explain what happened there. Um. Well,

1048
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: the live versions are faster than the album the studio versions,

1049
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 1: so there's a you know, obviously there's that incredible injection

1050
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: of adrenaline on the live performance. Um um. And also

1051
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: I think with I think with a lot of artists,

1052
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: then when you're a solo artists coming from a rock

1053
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: and roll band to go out on your own and

1054
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 1: make a solo album, UM, it takes maybe a year

1055
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: or two for you to really know the songs that

1056
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: you're performing. Um. And they obviously changed quite a lot

1057
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: from the recording in the studio to what they actually

1058
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: go out on the road and sound like. Um. Just

1059
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 1: in terms of you might have the same musicians that

1060
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: you use in the in the study video recording, and

1061
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: when you go on the road, you've got the group

1062
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: musicians that you're playing with year in, year out, so

1063
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: it's it's more honed down um um UM. I think

1064
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: when Peter went out on the road and did that

1065
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 1: huge slog around which you know, the Fampton comes a

1066
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: live album came from where when they went out and

1067
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: did that, um, just put the pro tools so it

1068
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: didn't stop. It's okay, just screen up, um. When Um,

1069
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: when Peter went out on the road and slogged around

1070
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: for for ages doing those performances. Um, two things happened.

1071
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: I think one was that the band were really really

1072
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,959
Speaker 1: tight and Peter had his act down. And Peter had

1073
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 1: also moved away from this musician songwriter didn't really think

1074
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: of himself as a singer, but say uh, and I

1075
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: think it was always holding himself back from the singing.

1076
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: But when he got front of stage in fact of

1077
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: the audience, that's changed all of a sudden, you know,

1078
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: he broke through that barrier, um and just put his

1079
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: heart on the line and his voice on the line,

1080
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: and it connected with people. Um. The most wonderful thing

1081
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: in mixing that album was that you could actually you

1082
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 1: could just push up the four two or four. There

1083
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: would have been two I think maybe three audience mix

1084
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 1: and just from listening to the audience was like, you know,

1085
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: you would get the adrenaline as well. And they weren't

1086
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: huge gigs, whether they were like the film or East.

1087
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: They were you know, pretty small rooms per se um.

1088
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: But wow, what sound and what a joy to mix.

1089
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: I mean, um, you know, there was a lot of

1090
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: stories about all a lot of stuff has been replaced.

1091
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: We never replaced anything except for a piece of world

1092
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: It's Them where the words of the lead had come out.

1093
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: And there was one other thing, a technical break where

1094
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: something was missing, and we replaced that. But that was it,

1095
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: and we definitely didn't double up on the audience either.

1096
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: Um you know, it was what it was. And there's

1097
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: a great story about that album, which I'm sure you

1098
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: may have heard. But um so d Anthony, Peter's manager

1099
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: at the time, said okay, you know we're going to

1100
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: do a single album. That's it. Let's get it finished,

1101
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 1: and were presented to the label. Um and so finished

1102
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 1: mixing the first album as it were, Jerry Muss came

1103
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: down to the studio, listened to it all back. He's

1104
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: sitting there. After we played side one, side to he said,

1105
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: where's the rest? We were what do you mean? He said,

1106
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: what is it? Where's all the where's the rest of

1107
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,640
Speaker 1: the concert? Where the other songs? They said, it's got

1108
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: to be a double album, so we had to go

1109
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: back in and mix the rest of the album. So,

1110
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: um yeah, d you got that one really wrong. Um

1111
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: so yeah, that was and after that, you know, Peter's

1112
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,720
Speaker 1: life changed dramatically. I mean the the start and that

1113
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: he had to endure and he wasn't really prepared for

1114
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: it either. I mean it really it really hit him

1115
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: by surprise. Um, and his manager didn't help us, as

1116
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,759
Speaker 1: he has told me. Um, did you have any idea

1117
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: Frampton Comes Alive was going to be the phenomenon that

1118
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 1: it was? No? Not as big as it was, No way,

1119
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: I did feel that it was. It was at the time,

1120
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 1: maybe one of the best live sounding records ever, because

1121
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of you know, live albums at

1122
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: the time, and nothing seemed to come close to it

1123
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:32,519
Speaker 1: sonically or as an experience as well. Um, it was

1124
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: almost like the whole songs on this kind of I know, UM,

1125
01:10:39,040 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: this plateau, this air, they were like floating around, but

1126
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: they were so positive sounding, and that was the audience.

1127
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: How did you feel when Peter did not use you

1128
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,479
Speaker 1: on the next album, Mom and You and it was

1129
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: a disaster? Well he did use me on that album.

1130
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know. I thought you just came back

1131
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 1: and they returned to form the one after that. Tell

1132
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: me your experience of arming you were it was a

1133
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 1: disaster and it wasn't. I think I came Did I

1134
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: come back? Under force I might have with D. I

1135
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,560
Speaker 1: don't know. D was a very vicarious manager, not a

1136
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: very nice person actually, um and UM. I think I

1137
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,680
Speaker 1: came back more out of support of Peter, But I

1138
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,799
Speaker 1: was pretty bitter at the time because I've been promised,

1139
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: you know, to be part of Peter's career. If it

1140
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: was successful, I would get a percentage, you know, a

1141
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,240
Speaker 1: producer percentage. I never received any of that. D D

1142
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: threatened actually to UM. Yeah, he he made some comments

1143
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,240
Speaker 1: that if I ever approached Peter for any money or

1144
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 1: anything like that, I'd never work in New York City again,

1145
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: which is a young twenty four year old terrified the

1146
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: ship out of me, um and and it was very

1147
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: difficult for me to go back and work with Peter.

1148
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: Um and I'm in you because of that, um And

1149
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: that actually in going back and working and I'm in you.

1150
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 1: UM after that, I don't think we worked together after that,

1151
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: but I think you worked one more time, Oh yeah

1152
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 1: on Churchill. Yeah yeah, not not. But also we're you

1153
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: saying the album where I should be, Where I should be? Yeah, okay,

1154
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: So but after where I should Be, it was still

1155
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,200
Speaker 1: not a very good you know, not very good atmosphere

1156
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 1: all around really um, still with D you know, in control.

1157
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: UM and this this kind of relationship with Peter where UM,

1158
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: I felt like, hey, come on, step up to the plate.

1159
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's like I've paid my jewes with you.

1160
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: Um and UM and not realizing that he was being

1161
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:53,679
Speaker 1: completely you know, ripped off by D, that his life

1162
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: was a mess UM and D was also part of

1163
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:01,560
Speaker 1: that UM. And so after that it was almost like

1164
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 1: my friendship, my love for that man, you know, stopped

1165
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: and it really really hurt me in a lot of ways,

1166
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,599
Speaker 1: as I'm sure he did Peter. And then many years

1167
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 1: later we got back together. We took all the ghosts

1168
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: at the closet, UM, and we kind of made up,

1169
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: hugged and it was back to the music again. It

1170
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: was fantastic. You know, he's a genius. I love him

1171
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: to bits and he's been such a good friend you

1172
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: know since we did all that so um, and he

1173
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: was a part of my career and my whole you

1174
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: know success story. Really, so I can't you know, I

1175
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,759
Speaker 1: can't knock him for that. I never knocked him for anything.

1176
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:43,560
Speaker 1: It was just it was just sad that you know,

1177
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: he wasn't really guided and advised right yeah to um

1178
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: to look after himself, to support himself and to support

1179
01:13:51,400 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 1: his friends around him. Um. So, but that happens okay.

1180
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: You talked about the producer's percentage on the Frampton albums.

1181
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 1: At what point did you start getting a producer's uh percentage?

1182
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: And this was in the development I mean this is

1183
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 1: varied from zero to five cent for a long time.

1184
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 1: The standard was for who negotiated your deals and and

1185
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 1: how or did you do it yourself? And when did

1186
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 1: you start getting a percentage? Oh? No, I didn't do

1187
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: it myself. I had a couple of managers at the time.

1188
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: One was Rick Aliberti, American manager at would Stop Now.

1189
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: Another one was Mims scala Um out of London. Um.

1190
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: They were two oh Satha Jeffrey as well at one

1191
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 1: time in London. UM. And I think um um, I

1192
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,560
Speaker 1: think the first voti the first valty check with the

1193
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: first producer agreement was with Johnnie Halliday. UM and boy

1194
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 1: was that a good yeah, good one to have um.

1195
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:06,000
Speaker 1: And it was respect from both sides, so that was wonderful. Um.

1196
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 1: And then Marillion, kidding joke actually got a contract with

1197
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: Peter Tosh, which was amazing um and Jimmy Cliff psychedelic

1198
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: first Um. Um what else? Um, there's a band in

1199
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 1: the Australia that I produced with Noise Works. We were

1200
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: quite big um so um yeah, yeah, you get a

1201
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: percentage of the Stones records. No, no, I did get

1202
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,920
Speaker 1: I did at one time. I got half of a penny,

1203
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 1: half of the US penny and I kind of cashed

1204
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: it in, um because well that's my next question. Did

1205
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,480
Speaker 1: you sell it back to them and all your royalties

1206
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 1: do you still own or did you cash those? Now?

1207
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 1: I keep I still don't know my royalties. But a

1208
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: long time ago, UM, I just got into such a

1209
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 1: bitter place with the Stones for not being offered or

1210
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 1: given a worldy apart from that half of any um,

1211
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get rid of the kind of

1212
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just wanted to get rid of

1213
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:12,480
Speaker 1: that feeling, um that I hadn't been kind of respected

1214
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: or I was respected, but I didn't feel as if

1215
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 1: I was really part of the team as it were.

1216
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 1: I think they, you know, they realized the new I

1217
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 1: brought a lot to the table for them in terms

1218
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: of sound and production, you know, capturing it and keeping

1219
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,800
Speaker 1: it going when time was really hard for them, like

1220
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 1: tattoo you when they weren't talking to each other, um,

1221
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,560
Speaker 1: and and there was no one really there, you know,

1222
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: fighting for me. I mean I was, you know, just

1223
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:43,000
Speaker 1: in love with my profession what I did, and um,

1224
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: it was only you know, after the fact, you know,

1225
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:48,640
Speaker 1: you sit back and go, well, hey, those guys are

1226
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 1: getting three percent, they're getting a percentage, and they're doing

1227
01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,599
Speaker 1: bugger all. I've done twice as much more than they've

1228
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:58,600
Speaker 1: ever done, and I'm not getting anything. So but I

1229
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 1: learned to kind of, you know, just ditch all that

1230
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,840
Speaker 1: and forget about it, because that's not That's not what

1231
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 1: it's about. It's about making the music. And if you

1232
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,519
Speaker 1: live with that bitterness and that contempt around you, you're

1233
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 1: a miserable person. And a lot of books that I've

1234
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 1: read by producer engineers, that's that's the basis of the book.

1235
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,240
Speaker 1: Um um um. I am going to write a book.

1236
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 1: My book will be nothing like that. I mean, I've

1237
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: got so many great, great funny stories about every album

1238
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 1: I've ever made. I think that are really just fun

1239
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: to talk about and to rediscover. Okay, other than investments,

1240
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 1: does enough money come in from royalties to live on UM. No, no,

1241
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: definitely not not with streaming UM and UM, I mean

1242
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:49,560
Speaker 1: I I started my own little digital label earlier this

1243
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:54,880
Speaker 1: year because during COVID, I I did, you know, I've

1244
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: always been a little bit of a writer, So I

1245
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 1: did in writing with Robert Hart Gary Granger some years ago,

1246
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 1: maybe ten years ago, which we never came out. And

1247
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 1: then during Lockdown there was a musician who got in

1248
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: touch with me. Funny enough, he was a fan of

1249
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: Peters UM and that's how he found me on my

1250
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 1: website and I kind of nurtured him and helped him

1251
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: in songwriting, and then he got to the point where

1252
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 1: I went, who I really like where this is going

1253
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:27,560
Speaker 1: out lyrically? UM. So we kind of joined together and

1254
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: we would co write you know, the songs, UM. And

1255
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:34,560
Speaker 1: then we actually we made about and this is just

1256
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 1: the two he's he's programming and playing everything. I'm adding

1257
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 1: some stuff over here. But it's the type of album

1258
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: I've never made before. UM. But I did enjoy doing

1259
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: it because you know, I couldn't go to a studio,

1260
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:50,479
Speaker 1: so I had to do something keep it in so

1261
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: UM and then UM, you know, we've actually finished about

1262
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: four albums and so a very good friend of mine,

1263
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 1: Robin Miller said, rob is that she said, just do

1264
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 1: your own digital little label, do it with a wall.

1265
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 1: So I set it all up and it was very

1266
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 1: lucky to come up with the name Undercover Music, so

1267
01:19:09,160 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: there's a bit of a link to the Stones, which

1268
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 1: was cool. Um, and then started releasing stuff on that

1269
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: and then I was I just found how hard it

1270
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:23,799
Speaker 1: is to be a musician out there today, because unless

1271
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,599
Speaker 1: you've got some kind of link to someone who's got

1272
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,360
Speaker 1: such a huge social network presence, it's like you might

1273
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:34,519
Speaker 1: as well be basking. I mean, it is really tough.

1274
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: I mean I think I've got something like two thousand

1275
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 1: Facebook followers, so of course they were all alerted. But

1276
01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 1: even so, the streaming income is just, you know, it's

1277
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: quite sad, and I kind of thinking, I was thinking, wow,

1278
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 1: if I've just you know, there's been a thousand streams

1279
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:53,640
Speaker 1: today that could have related to maybe like back in

1280
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: the day, like maybe four hundred singles sales, you know,

1281
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: physical sales. So um it sets them my wondering about stuff.

1282
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:10,480
Speaker 1: But um um, but I do think that the musicians

1283
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,680
Speaker 1: do have a better chance of getting their stuff out

1284
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 1: there now there's so many more platforms, but how they

1285
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 1: get it noticed and picked up is another thing. Um.

1286
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:20,799
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not a Twitter, I'm not on Instagram,

1287
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not in that. I have a young

1288
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: student from Kingston University who said, I'll do all that

1289
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 1: for you, so he does it for me. Bet him.

1290
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: But it's still, you know, it's very low key compared

1291
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,640
Speaker 1: to everything else that's going on. But but the satisfaction

1292
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:40,960
Speaker 1: of doing it and getting it out there is much.

1293
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's bigger and better than anything. Um. And

1294
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,560
Speaker 1: I enjoy doing the videos. I enjoyed doing the the

1295
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:48,719
Speaker 1: artwork for the covers because I always do a digital

1296
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: booklet upload um. And then and then the last album

1297
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: I released was my wife's album, which we discovered in

1298
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 1: Lockdown because she made some recordings back in nineteen seventies

1299
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:07,799
Speaker 1: seven and seventy nine. UM and I put those together

1300
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,960
Speaker 1: and put that album out and one of the tracks

1301
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 1: on there with with Alvin and Mick Ralph's Salving the

1302
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: Mick Ralph's Um. The rest of the album is with

1303
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 1: musicians from a band called Carrillo Frank Carrillo at the

1304
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:23,720
Speaker 1: time a long View Farm. We recalled it a long

1305
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 1: View farm UM and I also discovered six thousand and

1306
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: thirty five minute meter slides as I was really keen photographer,

1307
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:36,040
Speaker 1: so used a lot of those photos from the sessions UM.

1308
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: And we also had a track where UM, Christie and

1309
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:44,559
Speaker 1: Keith did a duet together. UM. We were in Compass

1310
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: Point working on Undercover and Keith wanted to do it.

1311
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 1: Did this version of UM, Let's Go Steady Again, which

1312
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 1: was Sam cook it back in the day. And and Keith,

1313
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: you know new Christie's was singer because he'd heard the

1314
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 1: thing before and and he said, you get your wife in,

1315
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 1: she's got a sing on this, and as she did. UM.

1316
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: And it was a wonderful moment actually of Keith when

1317
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:17,600
Speaker 1: I approached his management and said, look, Christie's putting the

1318
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 1: album out, we'd love to include that duet on it.

1319
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: It's been you know, it's on bootleg, it's been out

1320
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: there on YouTube. At first management said no, and then

1321
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 1: two weeks they did. Keith piped in and said yep,

1322
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,960
Speaker 1: you could use it. So that that was a wonderful

1323
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: thing that he did for her really, quite specially now

1324
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,760
Speaker 1: mentioning her engineers not to mention everybody on that side

1325
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:42,639
Speaker 1: of the desk or afraid where they're going to get

1326
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:46,000
Speaker 1: their next gig, and they tend to work around the clock,

1327
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:50,760
Speaker 1: and it's hard to have relationships and hard to maintain relationships.

1328
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: How many times have you been married, And you've been

1329
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,560
Speaker 1: married to this lady for a long time, how do

1330
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,720
Speaker 1: you sustain that doing all your work? Tend to be

1331
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: well not now people work during the day, but in

1332
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 1: the old days were working at night. And do you

1333
01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:07,559
Speaker 1: have any children? How did you maintain a family life? Well,

1334
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: we've been married forty one years, but um, that's a

1335
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: success story. Yeah, yeah, that's a platinum album there. And

1336
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: I've only been married once. We have two children, a

1337
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: son and a daughter. Um, and we're a very happy family,

1338
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:30,639
Speaker 1: very happy. And um, I was blessed because the woman

1339
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,600
Speaker 1: that I married it was my biggest fan, um and

1340
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 1: is still my biggest fan today. And of course I'm

1341
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: a huge fan of hers as well. I mean, we

1342
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 1: did meet in the studio. We met at Hook and

1343
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: Alvin the studio because she was staying with Alvin and

1344
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 1: Susanne at the time doing some vocals on some Mick

1345
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: Ralph's stuff, and so of course I fell in love

1346
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 1: with her voice as well. Um. And then she's from Minnesota,

1347
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 1: but she she was living in England a long long

1348
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 1: time ago, and that's never never moved back to Minnesota.

1349
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 1: UM and so UM, yeah, it's been it still is

1350
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:13,680
Speaker 1: an incredible journey with the woman that I met all

1351
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 1: that time ago. And and what's really special about it

1352
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 1: is actually is that all the bands that I've ever

1353
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 1: worked through, UM, they know and love her as well,

1354
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 1: you know, they there's a respect for both of us there.

1355
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate in so much as every every band

1356
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,759
Speaker 1: of musician I think I've ever worked with, UM, there's

1357
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: never been a really ugly falling out moment. I mean,

1358
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm not that type of person. I mean, you know,

1359
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing with the business side is a little

1360
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: bit different sometimes UM, as I discussed earlier. But even so,

1361
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,600
Speaker 1: you get through those moments and you're still you know,

1362
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 1: when you see friends, even if I was to see

1363
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 1: Mick or Keith in the street, you know, it's still

1364
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: a good feeling. It's a good vibe. But I actually

1365
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,599
Speaker 1: bumped into Do and event last week because they were

1366
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Olympic doing some interviews for their new album, and it

1367
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 1: was so it was as if I just saw them

1368
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 1: about two weeks ago. I mean that's it's nice guys anyway,

1369
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 1: they really are um, um, you know, really sort of

1370
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: the earth guys and uh, and just a lot of

1371
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: love and respect of what we do. That's the main thing. Okay,

1372
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about the stone to come back from recording

1373
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: and finishing for him. It comes alive. You get the

1374
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 1: call for some girls, you end up working for them

1375
01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: for you know, for your stuff comes out, like for

1376
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen years. So what was the experience working

1377
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 1: with the starts? UM? Well, I was actually I was.

1378
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:49,720
Speaker 1: I was surprised how little um they were coming into

1379
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:52,839
Speaker 1: the control. In fact, Charlie never came into the control,

1380
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 1: when Bill hardly came into the control and mc keith

1381
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: well occasionally come into control. And but after I set

1382
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: up in Paris, um, you know, like the first week

1383
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: and got a sound together UM and had things as

1384
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 1: I wanted it, and um, they came in to listen

1385
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:13,519
Speaker 1: for one playback and then they just looked at each

1386
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,759
Speaker 1: other kind of like nodded. I didn't say really anything

1387
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,400
Speaker 1: to me, UM, And then I just kept recording UM

1388
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: and logging everything, and you know, I talked to them

1389
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:29,040
Speaker 1: about sounds. You know, guitar sounds sometime or parts or whatever,

1390
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: but not a lot. But it was really keeping my

1391
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,639
Speaker 1: eye on the ball to make sure everything was going

1392
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 1: down when it should go down, or or if I

1393
01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 1: felt that a track was really not happening, you know,

1394
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:42,639
Speaker 1: I'd say, guys, I think you should change and try

1395
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: something else now. Um. But um it was. It was

1396
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 1: a really like a big football team in a way, um,

1397
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,439
Speaker 1: because it was only as strong as you know, the

1398
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 1: whole team on the pitch really um and some girls.

1399
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 1: Was a really interesting period because because of keith situation

1400
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 1: with the Canadian um um. You know he might have

1401
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 1: gone to prison um so and he was still using

1402
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: at the time as well, So there was a there

1403
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:19,639
Speaker 1: was interesting shift of power. I realized now where Mick

1404
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 1: was was, you know, could have in control a lot more.

1405
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: But but incredibly supportive to Keith. Incredibly supportive. You know,

1406
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 1: he wasn't stripping him down that you know, he because

1407
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 1: Keith would disappear for a couple of hours to the bathroom, um,

1408
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of a session and then

1409
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:42,680
Speaker 1: come back, or you know I did see him might

1410
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 1: nod off a few times with the guitar sound, so um,

1411
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 1: so Mick was incredibly supportive. And then then kind of

1412
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 1: Keith suddenly woke up from it all and but that

1413
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: the thought that that might be the last Stones or

1414
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 1: the last recording with Jaggon and Richards for quite some

1415
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 1: time him. I think that really gave the album a

1416
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: special energy um which and being in Paris was wonderful

1417
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: as well. It's a great city for them to work in.

1418
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: And the studio um was it was very basic, but

1419
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 1: in a great year my t G one two three

1420
01:28:19,360 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 1: four five console um which is a great sounding old

1421
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 1: console um and that helped a lot. That is the

1422
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: sound of those records act. Okay, now there are all

1423
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:33,360
Speaker 1: these stories about the Stones. They right in the studio,

1424
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:37,600
Speaker 1: they might excavate something from years before. How did the

1425
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 1: songs ultimately come to be on some girls? Uh? Well

1426
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 1: some girls all the songs with it in the studio

1427
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 1: pretty much. That's why I took about a year to recall.

1428
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: So what's what's that actually like? Never mind the cost, Well,

1429
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 1: the cost wasn't that bad because make had done a

1430
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 1: deal with the studio. He got the cheapest studio in

1431
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: Patio Marconi. There were three rooms and he picked the

1432
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:05,639
Speaker 1: cheapest one. Um, until it got to the point where, UM,

1433
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: where he thought it would be better if we moved

1434
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 1: into the NIV room because there was a more expensive

1435
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: need room. But I loved the sound of the ear

1436
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 1: my console. The control room in the ear my room

1437
01:29:18,280 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 1: was tiny. You couldn't get more than four people in there. Um,

1438
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:25,040
Speaker 1: and I quite like that too, So UM, I really

1439
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:27,599
Speaker 1: stuck up to stay in that studio. And Keith loved

1440
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 1: the sound in that studio too, so we didn't move.

1441
01:29:30,040 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: We stayed in the cheaper studio. So I don't think

1442
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 1: the cost was that, you know, was what It wasn't

1443
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,640
Speaker 1: anything like, you know, two thousand bucks a day. It

1444
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 1: was more like that two hundred bucks a day, and

1445
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 1: it's really cheap. So but it was a situation where, um,

1446
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, Michael Keith would come in with a song

1447
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 1: that you know, the basics of a song, a bit

1448
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 1: of a verse riff and a chorus riff, and then

1449
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, just played them through with the other members

1450
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:00,639
Speaker 1: of the band, played them through and through and through

1451
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:04,679
Speaker 1: and try different fields, different grooves on them, different tempos,

1452
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:08,960
Speaker 1: until you know you'd find one that's all of a

1453
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 1: sudden everybody went, oh, that's it. Let's stick with that

1454
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:15,160
Speaker 1: that way, that's the way to do it. Um. Um.

1455
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 1: It took a lot of you know, a lot of

1456
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:22,599
Speaker 1: logging from my point of view, to log every song,

1457
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: every song title, every take um. Um. So but it

1458
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:30,759
Speaker 1: was a long process. It was a really long process.

1459
01:30:31,240 --> 01:30:34,600
Speaker 1: Um Um. I think we must have been there for

1460
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 1: some Girls Gosh, I think we might have been there

1461
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,640
Speaker 1: for that four months, maybe five months. It was a

1462
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 1: long time. Um. But in doing that, you know, not

1463
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,799
Speaker 1: only did we recalled some Girls album, but we recorded

1464
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 1: a lot of tattoo you as well. Um. You know

1465
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 1: a lot of tracks from that period um ended up

1466
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 1: on other albums. Okay, So are you keeping the tape

1467
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: machine running the whole time or only when they're doing takes?

1468
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: Oh no, there's no discussion of are we doing a take?

1469
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 1: They're just performing and I'm recording. There's there's never no

1470
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 1: one ever says, okay, let's do one. No, that didn't happen. No,

1471
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:15,680
Speaker 1: It's just you keep your eye on the ball. You

1472
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:18,960
Speaker 1: get a feel for what's happening in the room. Um,

1473
01:31:19,479 --> 01:31:22,320
Speaker 1: and you have to kind of really be connected with

1474
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 1: it and second guess it so that you know that Okay,

1475
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 1: somebody's gonna happen. Make sure we're running UM and you

1476
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:35,719
Speaker 1: get it. So, if you're recording everything, you know, tape

1477
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: is big and expensive. Do you ever say, well, there's

1478
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:41,840
Speaker 1: nothing on this real I'm gonna record over it. Um. Yeah,

1479
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,640
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit, but it wasn't very often that

1480
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 1: there was nothing on it UM. And I was running

1481
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: at fifteen i p s. So you know that that's

1482
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of minutes. It's not like thirty ips. We've

1483
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: only got eighteen minutes. It's more than that. So but

1484
01:31:57,479 --> 01:32:00,599
Speaker 1: we did. Yeah, I think we must have elected about

1485
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: four hundred ls of tape UM, which was which was

1486
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,160
Speaker 1: quite interesting when you'd have to ship it all to

1487
01:32:06,280 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 1: New York to work and do some overdubs. Obviously you

1488
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 1: wouldn't ship the whole four hundred rills, but it was

1489
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: definitely like eight riels that you chip over UM. So

1490
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 1: there's a big trunk of tape coming over to the

1491
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 1: States for sure. Okay, at the time, Miss You was

1492
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 1: seen as a disco song playing to disco. What was

1493
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 1: going on? How did that get created? Well? Um? Bill

1494
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:38,920
Speaker 1: loved UM. He loved the club scene in Paris regimes.

1495
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Glad of remember the name of the club. There was

1496
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: a club called Regimes that he would go to. Um

1497
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:47,720
Speaker 1: and you know it was it was it was at

1498
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 1: the good time of what I called disco before I

1499
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:55,679
Speaker 1: think before it became digitized, and it was musicians playing

1500
01:32:55,960 --> 01:33:00,479
Speaker 1: a lot of it. Um and um, I know that

1501
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 1: I fondly remember that Bill Um. You know, that whole

1502
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 1: baseline was Bill's invention and that was really that was

1503
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: the driving force of the song really. Um. So that

1504
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: was a great you know, it was a great moment

1505
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: for Bill um. And yeah I missed Bill. I mean

1506
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,120
Speaker 1: I missed him in the Stones ex it um. So

1507
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 1: yeah that that record was one of the type and

1508
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:30,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a cheesy disco song either. Yeah. Yeah,

1509
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 1: and um when whenever whenever, Mick you know, adds a

1510
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,600
Speaker 1: bit of narrative in the song, like talking like he

1511
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:44,720
Speaker 1: did it just exactly. It just adds, you know, this

1512
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: wonderful imagery to it without a picture, and that's what

1513
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 1: he does. So well, that's what you know, that's always

1514
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:54,560
Speaker 1: what I loved about his his lyrics and his performance

1515
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:57,759
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, working with Miking the studio is working.

1516
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: It's like watching a prize fight about on the microphone

1517
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:04,640
Speaker 1: because he you know, he'll he'll do his warm up exercises.

1518
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: He makes sure he's fit before he sings you know,

1519
01:34:07,439 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 1: one word um, because he has the pair and the

1520
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 1: energy to keep going. And also he's dancing all the

1521
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 1: time he's singing, you know, until it's time to be

1522
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:19,200
Speaker 1: on mike, and then he's right in front of the

1523
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:23,560
Speaker 1: microphone on it. Um. Yeah, kind of the opposite the

1524
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: key Keith let's straight all over the room singing so um.

1525
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:33,240
Speaker 1: It's quite funny. The two of them is lovely. Okay.

1526
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:36,920
Speaker 1: My favorite other other than Issue on that album is

1527
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: rarely mentioned when the Whip comes down, but the track

1528
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 1: that constantly you know, goes on there's Waiting for a Friend.

1529
01:34:43,720 --> 01:34:47,240
Speaker 1: But forget that Shattered. How did Shattered come back? Yeah?

1530
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: I think that's the first because at that period, I

1531
01:34:51,720 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 1: remember Keith getting two guitar pedals. Um. So I remember

1532
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:00,160
Speaker 1: that the guitar amps. Everyone was playing through boogie the

1533
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:05,080
Speaker 1: fires which were really loud, I mean really loud um,

1534
01:35:05,400 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: and I would have to go down and turn them

1535
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 1: down sometimes because um, the way I set did up

1536
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 1: was like in a semi circle, and and I put

1537
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:17,360
Speaker 1: a small p a up so people could hear mixing

1538
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 1: to get an idea of you know, where the vocal

1539
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 1: was and the melody, rather than news headphones which worked

1540
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,040
Speaker 1: to treat but if the guitar has got too loud

1541
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 1: and you couldn't hear the p a um. So. But

1542
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,320
Speaker 1: Keith got two pedals at that time. One was an

1543
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:34,840
Speaker 1: m XR phaser and the other one was the m

1544
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,479
Speaker 1: x R analog delay, and that's what's on Shattered and

1545
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 1: it was that that whole kind of you know, he

1546
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: was kind of messing around with that riff, and then

1547
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: the pedal came along and we said, oh, let's try

1548
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,640
Speaker 1: the pedal on this, and he went, wow, I let

1549
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:51,920
Speaker 1: you know. And I think in a sense it took

1550
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: him back to maybe like um um, the Everly Brothers

1551
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 1: sound or something you know of his favorite you know,

1552
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 1: records in his past that because he was he would

1553
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 1: give you the most amazing mixtapes, mainly of reggae, a

1554
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:11,880
Speaker 1: lot of reggae stuff or Hank Williams, you know, a

1555
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:15,680
Speaker 1: mixture of reggae, Hank Williams Everly Brother's buddy Holly. And

1556
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 1: he was always giving me mixed mixtapes, which is fantastic. Um,

1557
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: I kind of could hear that from the Shattered riff? Um?

1558
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, because it's quite It's a very different song

1559
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: in every way in its arrangement and mixed vocals on it.

1560
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:36,640
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's um but it was a song that's um.

1561
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:39,680
Speaker 1: I mean it always you know Jagger Richards, but um,

1562
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 1: some are more Richards than Jagger, some are more jagged

1563
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 1: than Richards. Um. And that to me was more of

1564
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 1: a Keith song. We're mixed singing on the top. Okay,

1565
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 1: I made a mistake waiting on a friend is on

1566
01:36:53,200 --> 01:36:57,040
Speaker 1: Tattoo You. Tattoo You, of course has the iconic start

1567
01:36:57,160 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: me up, but you were saying it was a fraud

1568
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:03,280
Speaker 1: experience as the Dagon Richards had issues. So tell me

1569
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:07,920
Speaker 1: about the making of Tattoo You. Um. Well, UM, I

1570
01:37:08,080 --> 01:37:11,200
Speaker 1: can't remember now what the circumstances were. More likely that

1571
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Mick had dona solo album or he was getting into

1572
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: being a film producer. Um. But Mick and Keith were

1573
01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 1: not on talking terms, not on good terms at all,

1574
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 1: and it came to the point where they needed an

1575
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:27,280
Speaker 1: album and Prince Rupert Lowenstein, who was the manager at

1576
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 1: the time, approached me and said, Chris, you know of

1577
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: any tracks that might be around that we could use

1578
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: to put out. And I said, well, yeah, I know,

1579
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:38,720
Speaker 1: because I still got like a photographic memory. I knew

1580
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:41,439
Speaker 1: a lot of tracks that I'd recorded on the Emotional

1581
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,080
Speaker 1: Rescue and some girls that hadn't been released and hadn't

1582
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:49,479
Speaker 1: been used. So UM, I said, if I know of that,

1583
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 1: there's six or seven that I know of. I said,

1584
01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there'll be some others in the vaults.

1585
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 1: So UM, I spent three months going through all of

1586
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,880
Speaker 1: their all of their tapes and kind of put together

1587
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 1: a selection of songs to send them to listen to. UM.

1588
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:10,720
Speaker 1: And it took a while to get the feedback, but UM,

1589
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: over a period of time it came back that we

1590
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,680
Speaker 1: honed it down to you know the songs that are

1591
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:19,560
Speaker 1: on Tattoo today. Um. The only thing I had to

1592
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 1: do really was to get Mick to finished vocals because

1593
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:26,000
Speaker 1: on a lot of them the vocals weren't complete. Um,

1594
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 1: there were vocals, but lyrically they might not be complete,

1595
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 1: or is just repeating the same verse because he hadn't

1596
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,840
Speaker 1: written the verse or whatever. So UM, Mick did take

1597
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: It took a while to get him to complete the

1598
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 1: vocals and and we ended up doing most of the

1599
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 1: vocals in the strangest situation. Um. We had the rolling

1600
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:47,519
Speaker 1: Stones mobile in Paris and I remember it being winter

1601
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:51,639
Speaker 1: for sure, um. And for some reason, UM, he chose

1602
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:53,680
Speaker 1: to do them in a warehouse next to a like

1603
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:57,519
Speaker 1: a train depot station where they washed all the trains

1604
01:38:57,680 --> 01:39:00,160
Speaker 1: on the edge of the periphery. So we're at in

1605
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:05,839
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere doing vocals in the stones mobile. Um. Anyway,

1606
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 1: we finished all the vocals, we got those done, um.

1607
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 1: And then Charlie had the idea to put sunny ronnings

1608
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 1: on neighbors um and got that finished. Yeah. And then

1609
01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 1: but I think I can safely say if if if

1610
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 1: it hadn't been for me knowing where the things were

1611
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,719
Speaker 1: and knowing what was there, um and putting it all together,

1612
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have happened. Well. The funny thing is, but

1613
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: that I'm an agreement that is considered to be the

1614
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 1: last great phenomenal album. It's gotten a lot of respect

1615
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 1: forty years. Hence it's kind of interesting it is. I mean,

1616
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 1: it's got a lot of and what I love about

1617
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:49,600
Speaker 1: the album is that you don't get the impression that

1618
01:39:49,760 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 1: it's songs from different albums. It's he It sounds like

1619
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:58,280
Speaker 1: a purpose written album, which in a way always bugged me.

1620
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 1: I think you know, he, you know, Meet never likes

1621
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 1: to go back anytime, so you know, it was it

1622
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 1: was it was a bit of a chance to get it,

1623
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,760
Speaker 1: get it, you know, for him to to finish it

1624
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,320
Speaker 1: in that way. So, but it is. Um. I wish

1625
01:40:12,360 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 1: I could remember whose genius idea it was to have

1626
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:17,400
Speaker 1: the fast side and the slow side, because that really

1627
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 1: adds to the album. I mean, it's that's a it's

1628
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: almost like a concept album in that way. It really

1629
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 1: adds to it. Um. And also it's a buzz for

1630
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:27,479
Speaker 1: me because I get to play on one song. I

1631
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:30,760
Speaker 1: get to play on Heaven as well. Um. It was,

1632
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, a moment of waiting for the rest of

1633
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:36,200
Speaker 1: the band to come and there's me, Mick, Um and

1634
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:39,040
Speaker 1: Charlie and no one else, and so I just walked

1635
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:41,200
Speaker 1: out and start playing the electric piano with Mick while

1636
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,200
Speaker 1: he's you know, putting down Heaven. How did you know

1637
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:46,320
Speaker 1: how to play the piano to take lessons as a kid,

1638
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 1: I taught myself. Yeah, what age twelve? And you did

1639
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 1: you ever play in bands? No? I never played in bands. No,

1640
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:59,880
Speaker 1: but I you know, I've played on some records, not many,

1641
01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:02,800
Speaker 1: and I've written quite a few songs as well. Um

1642
01:41:03,240 --> 01:41:07,639
Speaker 1: so yeah, okay, so start me Up. That was sitting

1643
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 1: down the floor from the Some Girls album. Yeah, because

1644
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: that that song had been around in black and Blue

1645
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:18,600
Speaker 1: time as a reggae song. I mean, Keith, that was

1646
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 1: Keith's song. That it was, it was, you know, I

1647
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:26,200
Speaker 1: found out in Uncovering Everything that it started life as

1648
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:30,120
Speaker 1: a reggae song. But the day that we recorded it

1649
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,519
Speaker 1: in Paris as the version that we all know and

1650
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:37,400
Speaker 1: love today, quite a remarkable thing happened because it wasn't

1651
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:39,879
Speaker 1: very often. In fact, I can't think of another occasion

1652
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 1: where you would recalled a song with the Stones and

1653
01:41:44,640 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: that was the master. So because you know, it was

1654
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:50,639
Speaker 1: a big, big lead up to getting a final master.

1655
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:54,280
Speaker 1: As I discussed earlier about different arrangements, different dempo's, different styles.

1656
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 1: So this day we actually nail miss You, that's the

1657
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: day we'll recalled miss You. And then Keith launched him

1658
01:42:02,120 --> 01:42:05,240
Speaker 1: to start me Up, but with a completely different rhythm,

1659
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 1: not reggae at all, and it's the rhythm that we're

1660
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:12,400
Speaker 1: here today and that song, the version the Master of

1661
01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:16,360
Speaker 1: Startup was recorded the same day as Miss You. Um.

1662
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:21,240
Speaker 1: It was never known that to happen before. Um and

1663
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 1: so um. They did come in and listen to it,

1664
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:28,600
Speaker 1: and Keith said to me, he said, he said, no,

1665
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:30,920
Speaker 1: I don't like it. It reminds me of sorry I've

1666
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: heard on the radio he raised it. Of course I

1667
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 1: didn't raise it. I wouldn't raised anything. Um and um. Um.

1668
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:43,640
Speaker 1: There's been a few times when I've been to a

1669
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:46,640
Speaker 1: live concert and they will start with that song and

1670
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:49,679
Speaker 1: Keith plays the wrong card, and I'm sure he doesn't

1671
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: because he knows I'm in the audience. I think he

1672
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:57,400
Speaker 1: always wanted the reggae song to be the one. But whatever, Um,

1673
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 1: it's a fantastic song to start an album with. Okay,

1674
01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:05,800
Speaker 1: needle to say seventy eight some girls huge tour. There

1675
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 1: are tours, but undercover is a disappointment. But all of

1676
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 1: a sudden everything's rolled up for Wheels, which I think

1677
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:19,040
Speaker 1: is quite good. Tell me about the recording of Steel Wheels, Well, Um,

1678
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:22,479
Speaker 1: I've been invited back to to recording produced the band

1679
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:27,200
Speaker 1: the Game because I think previously that Steve Steve Dinnyway

1680
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:35,280
Speaker 1: did dirty work, um, which um, I purposefully stayed away

1681
01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 1: from because after Undercover, the relationships on that album refraying.

1682
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 1: I mean my actually one of my greatest achievements is

1683
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,639
Speaker 1: the mix of Undercover. I loved the mix of Undercover

1684
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:50,880
Speaker 1: of the night. If you heard the actual multi track

1685
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:54,080
Speaker 1: is nothing like what year it was. I had this

1686
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:57,000
Speaker 1: whole vision in my head of how to mix that

1687
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:00,439
Speaker 1: song UM and create it. And when I did it,

1688
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:03,000
Speaker 1: Micke and Keith heard it separately because they wouldn't come

1689
01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:05,559
Speaker 1: in the room at the same time. UM and UM,

1690
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:08,639
Speaker 1: and they both said to me on the separate occasion

1691
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:11,120
Speaker 1: and said, great, mixed the rest of the album like that,

1692
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:13,560
Speaker 1: And it was like, well, no, you can't. That's you

1693
01:44:13,640 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 1: can't do that with the rest of the songs. Although

1694
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,920
Speaker 1: too much blood was a little bit right. So anyway,

1695
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 1: so UM not wanted to get involved in dirty work.

1696
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 1: UM UM. Steel Wheels came along and UM we had

1697
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,120
Speaker 1: a discussion that instead of going in the studio and

1698
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:33,040
Speaker 1: writing everything in the studio, that Micke and Keith should

1699
01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:35,759
Speaker 1: get together, and actually right before we went in the studio,

1700
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:39,839
Speaker 1: so that happened. They went to Barbados to Eddie Grant's

1701
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: studio and hung out there for I think a month

1702
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:47,840
Speaker 1: um um you know, writing the bones of the songs

1703
01:44:47,880 --> 01:44:51,640
Speaker 1: that we're going to be on steel Wheels, um and um.

1704
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 1: I was actually working in Monsterrat at the time with

1705
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:59,400
Speaker 1: Anderson Wait for Buford Now um. So it was great

1706
01:44:59,439 --> 01:45:03,360
Speaker 1: because I would go over to see them in Barbados

1707
01:45:03,479 --> 01:45:05,600
Speaker 1: to see how they were doing at the weekend, and

1708
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 1: then come back and work with Anderson Wait for Boofing

1709
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 1: and Out. And after a couple of visits, I figured

1710
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:13,639
Speaker 1: out that they needed some new blood in there. Um.

1711
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:16,679
Speaker 1: And there was a young keyboard player who was working

1712
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:19,679
Speaker 1: on the Anderson Wait for Booth and Now album called

1713
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 1: Matt Clifford. Matt was like John Anderson's programmer um and

1714
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:28,519
Speaker 1: helped John, you know, make all the demos. So I

1715
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:31,360
Speaker 1: took Matt over with me and introduced him to Mick

1716
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:35,439
Speaker 1: and Keith. Uh. Mick instantly got on with Matt, loved

1717
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:39,320
Speaker 1: him to bits. Keith wasn't a short um and um.

1718
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 1: So Matt would go over at weekends, um, you know,

1719
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 1: to to help them with piano barts or just you know,

1720
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 1: to get a bit more of a vibe going on.

1721
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:52,760
Speaker 1: And so I remember the first weekend that Matt went over,

1722
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,320
Speaker 1: I called him up, quite nervous, you know, saying how's

1723
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 1: it going, what's been happening, what's been happening? He said,

1724
01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:00,479
Speaker 1: he said what he said, I've been here twenty four

1725
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:03,040
Speaker 1: hours and he said, we've met Prince so and so,

1726
01:46:03,240 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: Lady so and so. We haven't been to the studio yet.

1727
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:11,360
Speaker 1: I've been socializing with Mick. So, Um, they were after

1728
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:15,200
Speaker 1: a good start. Um, and Matt's been a true friend

1729
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 1: to make ever since. Actually, I mean he's really stayed

1730
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,479
Speaker 1: the course with them. But yeah, so it's nice to,

1731
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, put people together. I enjoy doing that a lot.

1732
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean I do put a lot of people together.

1733
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:32,840
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. So so the album, okay, so the album. Yeah.

1734
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: So it was quite interesting going to Monteret because, um,

1735
01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 1: although I love the studio, I love the island. I

1736
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:41,880
Speaker 1: loved everything. I was a bit nervous about the Stones

1737
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:44,760
Speaker 1: going there, knowing that they thrive on the city life,

1738
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:48,120
Speaker 1: you know, their social life, Um is part always part

1739
01:46:48,200 --> 01:46:50,720
Speaker 1: of making a record in a way, So to be

1740
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 1: on an island for a month or six weeks or whatever,

1741
01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:54,760
Speaker 1: and then it was I wasn't sure I was going

1742
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:58,320
Speaker 1: to pan out. It was a total opposite. It was amazing. Um.

1743
01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:01,879
Speaker 1: First of all, Bill, I think I just married Mandy

1744
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:05,320
Speaker 1: young Mandy, so he was only too happy to be

1745
01:47:05,479 --> 01:47:08,920
Speaker 1: away from the paparazzi because they never got on the island,

1746
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:12,760
Speaker 1: so that was a plus for him. Keith was with

1747
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:18,479
Speaker 1: Patty um. Um. So the family everyone had their own

1748
01:47:18,520 --> 01:47:21,600
Speaker 1: little villa and the families rule with them. Um. And

1749
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 1: it was Keith who said, right, we're not working weekends. Um,

1750
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:30,040
Speaker 1: We're just working Monday through Friday weekends off barbecue and swimming. Um.

1751
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 1: And that's what happened. And there was a terrific work

1752
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:36,840
Speaker 1: ethic as well. We started like midday work until about

1753
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: seven o'clock, stopped for dinner and then go back in,

1754
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:41,640
Speaker 1: but only go back in for a few hours, you know,

1755
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: not too two or three in the morning. Um. And

1756
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:47,680
Speaker 1: we got so much work done. It was absolutely a dream. UM.

1757
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:51,640
Speaker 1: And I already had a I've always been working on

1758
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:55,360
Speaker 1: every Stones album. I've always in my mind, in my head,

1759
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 1: I have kind of a vision of the sound, the

1760
01:47:58,640 --> 01:48:01,280
Speaker 1: sonic sound that I want for the band. There some

1761
01:48:01,479 --> 01:48:05,479
Speaker 1: girls album. Um, the Desk helped me with that No End.

1762
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,000
Speaker 1: I mean it gave it that bite, that punk, that

1763
01:48:08,439 --> 01:48:13,680
Speaker 1: that kind of aggressive and electric kind of almost firework

1764
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 1: sound about it. Um. Undercover an emotional rescue. Emotional rescue

1765
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:22,320
Speaker 1: led on from that, UM, but a bit more toned

1766
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:24,680
Speaker 1: down because the songs were a bit more toned down.

1767
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 1: Still some great sounding songs, and Undercover was just a

1768
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,600
Speaker 1: big challenge and I had to pull something out of

1769
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:33,200
Speaker 1: the bag when undercover with the night. So when it

1770
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:35,560
Speaker 1: got to come in when I got the invitation to

1771
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:37,720
Speaker 1: Steel Wheels, I already had it in my mind that

1772
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 1: I wanted Steel Wheels to sound very cinematic, not like

1773
01:48:43,439 --> 01:48:47,200
Speaker 1: a rough and dirty Stones album, but very polished, for

1774
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:50,000
Speaker 1: want of a better word, but a very you know,

1775
01:48:51,120 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 1: a very wide sounding record. UM. And the songs that

1776
01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 1: they wrote for that album gave me that opportunity. UM.

1777
01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:01,200
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of backing vocals and a

1778
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 1: lot of horns, you know, as becausion. It's it's for them.

1779
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:09,080
Speaker 1: It's a big production. But it doesn't sound like a

1780
01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:12,600
Speaker 1: ton of people. But it sounds it sounds expensive in

1781
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:15,400
Speaker 1: one way. It's got a nice kind of sheen about

1782
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:18,080
Speaker 1: it all. UM. And the reason I did that, it's

1783
01:49:18,160 --> 01:49:21,680
Speaker 1: because I was looking ahead to the next album, and

1784
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:24,040
Speaker 1: the next album I wanted to do. I wanted to

1785
01:49:24,080 --> 01:49:26,680
Speaker 1: make it sound like Exile on Main Street. I was

1786
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:30,040
Speaker 1: already planning ahead, but I never got the opportunity to

1787
01:49:30,160 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 1: do the next album because they changed labels, they changed producers. Um,

1788
01:49:34,320 --> 01:49:36,760
Speaker 1: and that was that. But that was my kind of

1789
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 1: focus on steel Will's. You know, the amazing thing is

1790
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:46,519
Speaker 1: they're playing Slipping Away pretty much every night on this tour. Christie,

1791
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:51,000
Speaker 1: I mean Christie was a big Christie. We used to

1792
01:49:51,080 --> 01:49:53,760
Speaker 1: sit at Key's house and I mean Keith would play

1793
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:56,040
Speaker 1: that song over and over and over again and he

1794
01:49:56,160 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 1: never finished it. And I remember Christie sitting with him

1795
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:02,560
Speaker 1: one night and and really kind of you know, I know,

1796
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:04,840
Speaker 1: just like pushing him, saying, Keith, you've got to finish that.

1797
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:06,760
Speaker 1: You've got to finish that. And then he came up

1798
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 1: with the bridge on the song and it got finished.

1799
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:12,639
Speaker 1: So that's a yeah, that's a beautiful song, really beautiful song.

1800
01:50:13,160 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: And his vocals love you on that song too, absolutely.

1801
01:50:16,080 --> 01:50:19,920
Speaker 1: So how does it really end with you? In the start? Um?

1802
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 1: It ends um in a good place because so we're

1803
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 1: still really good friends with them all um, more so

1804
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 1: with Ronnie. I mean Ronnie went on to work with

1805
01:50:30,240 --> 01:50:33,800
Speaker 1: some solo stuff from Ronnie Um, which is great. Um.

1806
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:37,879
Speaker 1: Ronnie has been a great supporter of the Olympic Cinema

1807
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:41,839
Speaker 1: and studio. But he did some great artwork for me there, Charlie.

1808
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:47,720
Speaker 1: I missed so much Charlie. I mean, yeah, Charlie. I

1809
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:52,280
Speaker 1: just have so many wonderful memories of Charlie Um making

1810
01:50:52,360 --> 01:50:56,960
Speaker 1: the albums. And there's a good friend as a lovely man. Um. Bill,

1811
01:50:58,120 --> 01:51:02,040
Speaker 1: We're always in touch. Still love Bill and Keith. I

1812
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:03,680
Speaker 1: don't see enough of because you know it's in the

1813
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:07,439
Speaker 1: States nearly all the time. So um, it's very fleeting

1814
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:11,240
Speaker 1: when I see Keith. But still great Mick. I haven't

1815
01:51:11,240 --> 01:51:16,280
Speaker 1: seen for ages um so um. But yeah, it's all

1816
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:20,479
Speaker 1: very Yeah, it's all good. There's no well, I mean

1817
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 1: you do Steel Wheels, which is a real comeback tours,

1818
01:51:23,160 --> 01:51:28,200
Speaker 1: unbelievably successful. They just don't call you for the next record.

1819
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,479
Speaker 1: Is that how it goes down? Yeah? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, Yeah.

1820
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:35,360
Speaker 1: I think I think Mike had already, you know, because

1821
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:38,920
Speaker 1: because the businessman of the band, so he decided that,

1822
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, change of label, because I think they went

1823
01:51:41,120 --> 01:51:46,879
Speaker 1: with Virgin then um um um Don you know connected

1824
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:51,600
Speaker 1: with Virgin. Don's wife was connected with Virgins, so you know,

1825
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:54,200
Speaker 1: kept it all in the Virgin house as it were.

1826
01:51:54,880 --> 01:51:58,080
Speaker 1: Um and yeah, I went to see them when Don

1827
01:51:58,240 --> 01:52:01,719
Speaker 1: was in l A working with them, which was which

1828
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:06,680
Speaker 1: was interesting different, but they were enjoying himself, so you know,

1829
01:52:06,760 --> 01:52:09,160
Speaker 1: what the hell? Okay? You know you mentioned that. I

1830
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:14,479
Speaker 1: got to ask what what was don style different from yours? Um?

1831
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:19,880
Speaker 1: What was done style different from my? Um? What? Don

1832
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:23,479
Speaker 1: was definitely in awe of working with the band. You know,

1833
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:26,799
Speaker 1: he was amazed that he was there working and producing

1834
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:30,360
Speaker 1: the Holding Stones. I was never amazed I was working

1835
01:52:30,439 --> 01:52:33,040
Speaker 1: with him. I was just amazed when we finished an

1836
01:52:33,080 --> 01:52:38,720
Speaker 1: album that was great. Okay, you mentioned McK Ralph's a

1837
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:40,960
Speaker 1: couple of times you work with bad Company. Tell me

1838
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:44,719
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, wow, Um that was on the Burning

1839
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:50,639
Speaker 1: Sky record which we recorded that set out Errville in France. Um.

1840
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: You know, the BGS did a documentary recently and they

1841
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:57,680
Speaker 1: said the Shot tour was a dump? What was it

1842
01:52:57,800 --> 01:53:01,280
Speaker 1: really like? Yeah? It wasn't that impressed if I got

1843
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:05,360
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, it was. Yeah. It was nothing like

1844
01:53:05,600 --> 01:53:10,479
Speaker 1: Long Review Farm. It was nothing like Umu Ridge Farm.

1845
01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:14,720
Speaker 1: It was nothing like um um oh, what's the one

1846
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:17,200
Speaker 1: in rock Field? It was nothing like rock Field equipment.

1847
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:22,280
Speaker 1: It was pretty basic. Yeah, it wasn't yeah, Um, it

1848
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:25,679
Speaker 1: wasn't that technically, it wasn't that together at all. I agree,

1849
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:31,720
Speaker 1: Um and um that album, Um, that was. It was

1850
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:35,240
Speaker 1: quite a difficult album actually, Um. I think Paul at

1851
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:39,559
Speaker 1: the time wasn't very happy. Um. I seem to remember

1852
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:43,720
Speaker 1: a lot of yeah, a lot of uncomfortable moments. Um.

1853
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:49,040
Speaker 1: Mick was always a gentleman and always trying to, you know,

1854
01:53:49,400 --> 01:53:54,200
Speaker 1: keep things calmed down. Um and um I remember fondly

1855
01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:58,120
Speaker 1: with Mick. We actually on a Saturday night we'd have

1856
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:02,680
Speaker 1: a disco for the local is just um, just to

1857
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:08,040
Speaker 1: get them involved. Um. Um but um, I mean I

1858
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 1: went on to work with Paul again with the Law

1859
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 1: with Kenny Jones. Um, that was really fun because Paul,

1860
01:54:16,439 --> 01:54:19,479
Speaker 1: Paul reminds me a lot of Mick in terms of

1861
01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 1: his professionalism in performing a vocal. I mean, Paul is

1862
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:28,519
Speaker 1: one of the most gifted singers. Um that well, I'm

1863
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:30,759
Speaker 1: very fortunate to work with a lot of gifted singers.

1864
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:36,160
Speaker 1: So um, but Paul has that just incredible voice and

1865
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:39,920
Speaker 1: it comes from a very special place his voice and

1866
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:43,120
Speaker 1: he's singing so and he's still got it he's still

1867
01:54:43,240 --> 01:54:47,800
Speaker 1: got it completely. Yeah, so it was always you know,

1868
01:54:47,960 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 1: to record him was just a dream as well. It

1869
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:53,280
Speaker 1: was a bit like recalling Sinatra. Um, he's got that

1870
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:58,000
Speaker 1: tone and that that delivery. And you know, I was

1871
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:00,480
Speaker 1: very good friends with Simon. I haven't seen sim of ages,

1872
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:03,880
Speaker 1: but um. It was nice because a lot of the

1873
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:06,440
Speaker 1: bands that I worked, but you did become really well.

1874
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:09,480
Speaker 1: Obviously you become very close to them for a while.

1875
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:11,760
Speaker 1: So for maybe four or five months, that's all you

1876
01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:15,040
Speaker 1: see as those people. Um, and then then you you

1877
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:17,280
Speaker 1: go off and do other things. Sometimes you work together

1878
01:55:17,320 --> 01:55:19,440
Speaker 1: again with him. I mean, it's quite interested in my

1879
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:22,240
Speaker 1: career that I've worked with Peter Fampton and the Stones

1880
01:55:22,400 --> 01:55:24,480
Speaker 1: as many times. I think I've done seven albums with

1881
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:28,480
Speaker 1: both of them, which is quite strange. I've never never

1882
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,160
Speaker 1: thought of that until someone mentioned it to me. Um. Um.

1883
01:55:32,640 --> 01:55:36,640
Speaker 1: And then my relationship with Merillium, which was really good too.

1884
01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:41,520
Speaker 1: That was a great relationship and kidding jokes still so um.

1885
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:45,680
Speaker 1: But Paul yeah, I mean a wonderful voice. And I

1886
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 1: knew of Paul Free because of Andy Johns. Was Andy

1887
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:53,080
Speaker 1: Johns would recorded the Free albums and that's when I

1888
01:55:53,160 --> 01:55:58,080
Speaker 1: met This is interesting. That's so when Backstreet Crawler came

1889
01:55:58,120 --> 01:56:01,960
Speaker 1: along podcast yeah know, but the replacement football Cosso was

1890
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:08,080
Speaker 1: was Stuffy Walden and interest emailing was Snuffy yesterday. No wait, okay,

1891
01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:11,520
Speaker 1: because Stuffy and I have really dear friends because I

1892
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:15,800
Speaker 1: produced Snuffy's first band called Stray Dog. They were signed

1893
01:56:15,840 --> 01:56:18,840
Speaker 1: to Manticore Records, to E L P S label, and

1894
01:56:19,320 --> 01:56:22,360
Speaker 1: Snuffy at the time was a hell raising text and

1895
01:56:22,520 --> 01:56:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, blues guitar player with a powerhouse trio in London.

1896
01:56:26,280 --> 01:56:29,480
Speaker 1: Um and made the album. I think they made another album,

1897
01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: but then the band imploded and and I was sure

1898
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:35,720
Speaker 1: that Snuffy wouldn't live to see the other side of

1899
01:56:35,760 --> 01:56:40,680
Speaker 1: twenty five years old. And then and then many years later,

1900
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:44,520
Speaker 1: I was I was living in Manhattan and I'm watching

1901
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:48,880
Speaker 1: the TV one night and thirty something comes on and

1902
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:51,640
Speaker 1: I'm going like, wow, I love the music on this

1903
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 1: is really nice. So wait for the end credits and

1904
01:56:53,600 --> 01:56:57,600
Speaker 1: then it says music by um was it W G

1905
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:02,320
Speaker 1: W G Walden? And I said to Christie, I said, ship,

1906
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,680
Speaker 1: that can't be the same Snuff. He can't still be

1907
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 1: around anyway. It was him, and I tracked him down

1908
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:12,920
Speaker 1: and um we we saw a lot of each other.

1909
01:57:13,040 --> 01:57:15,200
Speaker 1: About four years ago he was in London a lot.

1910
01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:18,560
Speaker 1: In fact, I invited him to perform at Olympic because

1911
01:57:18,760 --> 01:57:21,760
Speaker 1: I was doing before COVID, I was doing live music

1912
01:57:22,360 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: Olympic once a month. Um to like a small it's

1913
01:57:26,080 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 1: just a small forty five seater room, and I put

1914
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:34,320
Speaker 1: on these wonderful evenings with with really really different artists,

1915
01:57:34,360 --> 01:57:38,120
Speaker 1: I mean from all different areas of music, mainly unsigned

1916
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,880
Speaker 1: artists or new emerging artists or you know, kind of

1917
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:45,760
Speaker 1: legendary artists. And Staffie is one of those. So um.

1918
01:57:45,920 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: I had Charlie Door on another night as well, and

1919
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:52,640
Speaker 1: David Noffler. But but Snuffy and I really connected in

1920
01:57:52,720 --> 01:57:56,320
Speaker 1: a big, big way. And Snuffy said the most wonderful

1921
01:57:56,360 --> 01:57:58,160
Speaker 1: thing said Chris. He said, I want you to produce

1922
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:01,040
Speaker 1: my next album. I said to me, your next album,

1923
01:58:01,560 --> 01:58:04,400
Speaker 1: he said, I'm I'm really winding down from the TV

1924
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:06,720
Speaker 1: music is said, I want to make an album again.

1925
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:10,960
Speaker 1: So um, we're you know, hopefully we're going to be

1926
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,240
Speaker 1: doing something in the new year. That begs a question

1927
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:16,480
Speaker 1: you talked to earlier about Frank Sinatra movie soundtrack. Did

1928
01:58:16,520 --> 01:58:19,880
Speaker 1: you come to love the sound of the music you

1929
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:23,200
Speaker 1: were making or are you still at home playing the

1930
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:27,880
Speaker 1: soundtracks and coruners of your No. I've come to love

1931
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:30,920
Speaker 1: the sound of the music that I'm making, um and

1932
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:34,360
Speaker 1: I'm incredibly proud of it. And I think one thing

1933
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:39,400
Speaker 1: that I've always um, I've never been an engineer or

1934
01:58:39,400 --> 01:58:43,160
Speaker 1: a producer who puts a stamp of my sound on

1935
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:46,120
Speaker 1: a record. I like to think, you know, I bring

1936
01:58:46,320 --> 01:58:49,320
Speaker 1: the best of any artists out of them. Um. But

1937
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:52,520
Speaker 1: what I'm doing more now actually is um I love

1938
01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:56,800
Speaker 1: doing arrangements, like horn arrangements or string arrangements. I'm going

1939
01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:00,640
Speaker 1: back to that part of my sonic ear um um.

1940
01:59:01,200 --> 01:59:06,000
Speaker 1: And also I'm doing a lot more um um orchestral

1941
01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:12,120
Speaker 1: semi classical acoustic work. Um not jazz yet, I haven't

1942
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:17,560
Speaker 1: fallen into that area, but um more acoustic work. UM.

1943
01:59:18,040 --> 01:59:20,680
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is not kind of you know,

1944
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:25,240
Speaker 1: rock and roll anymore. Um More. I still love blues,

1945
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:27,840
Speaker 1: but it's like how many blues records can you make

1946
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,000
Speaker 1: in here? Um? So I'm searching for something new. I'm

1947
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:33,040
Speaker 1: always searching for something new. So I've been working with

1948
01:59:33,080 --> 01:59:37,920
Speaker 1: a young artist called James Passing recently, who who I've

1949
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 1: done one song with him and the reviews have been

1950
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:46,400
Speaker 1: like James Taylor meets Bert back IRAQ, which is like, okay,

1951
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:49,040
Speaker 1: I'll settle for that one. I like that. But the

1952
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 1: the guy's got a great voice and he you know,

1953
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:53,160
Speaker 1: he's got the James Taylor style. But the way I

1954
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:57,120
Speaker 1: raised the track was you know, quite orchestral as it were.

1955
01:59:57,240 --> 02:00:02,000
Speaker 1: So UM, I'm I'm leaning more towards that now. But

1956
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm doing that mainly because I've been really since I've

1957
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:10,520
Speaker 1: been working with Olympic Studios. UM. I met the new

1958
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:14,480
Speaker 1: owners about twelve years ago by an accident. UM where

1959
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,040
Speaker 1: is my wife? Actually she wanted our thirtieth anniversary there,

1960
02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:21,440
Speaker 1: so she tracked down the new owners, who nobody knew

1961
02:00:21,480 --> 02:00:25,960
Speaker 1: who they were. UM and UM. They asked me to

1962
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:29,240
Speaker 1: to join in, and they wanted to keep the great

1963
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:33,080
Speaker 1: Olympic sound in the cinema. So I was like consultant

1964
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:36,600
Speaker 1: and designed the sound for the cinemas there, in choosing

1965
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:40,600
Speaker 1: speaker systems that no other cinema has, and we were

1966
02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:44,840
Speaker 1: the first cinema to have Dolby atmos, so a very

1967
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:48,360
Speaker 1: you know. UM. At that point in my life and career,

1968
02:00:48,400 --> 02:00:52,280
Speaker 1: I was totally absorbed with AMOS, became really good friends

1969
02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 1: with um the Oscar winning Paul Massey, U film mixer

1970
02:00:57,840 --> 02:01:02,080
Speaker 1: who did Bohemian Rhapsody. Paul also, i mean does all

1971
02:01:02,160 --> 02:01:04,600
Speaker 1: of Ridley Scott's films he's doing you know, he did

1972
02:01:04,680 --> 02:01:09,040
Speaker 1: Marsha and he's doing just finished Gucci. Now we're great friends. Um.

1973
02:01:09,360 --> 02:01:12,080
Speaker 1: He spends half his life here, all those in the States,

1974
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:15,120
Speaker 1: and but we see a lot of each other. Um.

1975
02:01:15,360 --> 02:01:17,240
Speaker 1: And at one time we were going to build a

1976
02:01:17,280 --> 02:01:22,960
Speaker 1: Dolby Atmos mixing film score set in Olympic and so

1977
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:26,040
Speaker 1: Paul and I Paul educated me a lot about the

1978
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:28,840
Speaker 1: mixing technique, the consoles. We went to Paris to look

1979
02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:34,640
Speaker 1: at some new build atmos cinema UM sound stages there. Um,

1980
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:38,080
Speaker 1: that didn't happen because we turned it around and we're

1981
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,920
Speaker 1: building the studio there. But um, it introduced me to

1982
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:44,960
Speaker 1: atmos at the very kind of you know, at the

1983
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:48,920
Speaker 1: start of it. Um. And if a film it's like

1984
02:01:49,000 --> 02:01:51,920
Speaker 1: an album. If a film is mixed well in Dolby Atmos,

1985
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:55,440
Speaker 1: it sounds amazing, you know. If it's mixed poorly, it

1986
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:59,560
Speaker 1: can sound like gimmicky. Um it can. Yeah, it's just

1987
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:04,120
Speaker 1: like a record in my mind. So Gravity was the

1988
02:02:04,200 --> 02:02:06,720
Speaker 1: first film that we showed at Olympic in atmosph course

1989
02:02:06,760 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 1: the atmosphe and that is absolutely incredible. So for the

1990
02:02:10,840 --> 02:02:13,640
Speaker 1: last ten years I've been living with ATMOS, well eight

1991
02:02:13,760 --> 02:02:15,880
Speaker 1: years living with ATMOS, and then the whole thing with

1992
02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:20,560
Speaker 1: Atmos music comes along, um and I find myself involved

1993
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:27,320
Speaker 1: with the speaker company PMC, who um Um, I've become

1994
02:02:27,440 --> 02:02:31,000
Speaker 1: very good friends with he. Whereas who's like the consultant

1995
02:02:31,040 --> 02:02:33,320
Speaker 1: for PMC and getting their stuff out of there. He

1996
02:02:33,800 --> 02:02:36,800
Speaker 1: used to work with Steve Lipson, um, you know, who's

1997
02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:39,080
Speaker 1: also an old friends. So it's always, you know, this

1998
02:02:39,240 --> 02:02:42,880
Speaker 1: close network of friends and people you know. Um. And

1999
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:49,280
Speaker 1: in listening to ATMOS music mixes, I discovered you know,

2000
02:02:49,360 --> 02:02:52,960
Speaker 1: we were talking about the analog digital situation earlier. Well,

2001
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:57,120
Speaker 1: the terrible thing that's happening, I think, um, is that

2002
02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:02,280
Speaker 1: record companies are now pushing stems out to mixes to

2003
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:07,120
Speaker 1: mix everything in ATMOS because Apple the demanding Atmos um um,

2004
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:11,720
Speaker 1: So stems are going out to mixes. The stems are

2005
02:03:11,880 --> 02:03:15,440
Speaker 1: usually got all the compression, all the EQ and everything

2006
02:03:15,760 --> 02:03:19,440
Speaker 1: that originated from what they mix the stereo track as

2007
02:03:20,640 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 1: sent to them to mixing ATMOS. Now ATMOS the dynamic

2008
02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:27,960
Speaker 1: range of ATMOS is huge. That's why it sounds like

2009
02:03:28,080 --> 02:03:30,760
Speaker 1: it does in a cinema because there is no compression.

2010
02:03:31,400 --> 02:03:35,360
Speaker 1: So when you're given compressed files to mixing atmos, it

2011
02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:39,480
Speaker 1: already makes your mix sounds like eight times smaller than

2012
02:03:39,600 --> 02:03:42,800
Speaker 1: anything else which doesn't have compression, because you're limiting the

2013
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:46,760
Speaker 1: headroom in it. UM. And I'm really frustrated with this

2014
02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:50,640
Speaker 1: because RELD companies don't understand that they're pumping out all

2015
02:03:50,720 --> 02:03:54,000
Speaker 1: these stems to people. Mixes are coming back. They're in atmos,

2016
02:03:54,120 --> 02:03:56,880
Speaker 1: but they sound that ship. Um. You know they have

2017
02:03:57,040 --> 02:04:00,760
Speaker 1: no dynamic range. Um. There's a whole issue with me

2018
02:04:00,880 --> 02:04:05,240
Speaker 1: with reverb in atmos mixes. Um engineers are putting reverb

2019
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:10,040
Speaker 1: upon reverb on vocals and that in atmos you have

2020
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:11,520
Speaker 1: to be in a really good room to know what

2021
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 1: it's going to fold down to. And that's the other

2022
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:16,440
Speaker 1: issue is that people are mixing in the atmos and

2023
02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:19,840
Speaker 1: then when it's actually folded down into spatial sound, into

2024
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:23,800
Speaker 1: into by normals sounding the headphones, it can sound like crap.

2025
02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:27,680
Speaker 1: And the other issue is is that the if you

2026
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:32,000
Speaker 1: mix the stereo file stereo mixed file that's been compressed

2027
02:04:32,040 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 1: for stereo like they all are. Um, if you mix

2028
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:36,920
Speaker 1: that with an al with a song that's been mixed

2029
02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:41,800
Speaker 1: in ATMOS on your album, the ATMOS song will sound

2030
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:45,800
Speaker 1: eight eight times quieter than the stereo co best file

2031
02:04:45,880 --> 02:04:51,680
Speaker 1: because you can't compress metadata, which is what ATMOS music is. UM.

2032
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:56,960
Speaker 1: So there's I mean, I think atmos is an incredible thing.

2033
02:04:57,040 --> 02:05:02,440
Speaker 1: It's great in cinemas, Um, it's great. UM. I believe

2034
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:06,800
Speaker 1: it's going to be incredibly successful in cars because then

2035
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:09,720
Speaker 1: you've got a captive audience. You can put eight speakers

2036
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:11,880
Speaker 1: in the car, you put them over your head, um,

2037
02:05:12,320 --> 02:05:15,360
Speaker 1: and it will sound great in a car. Um. But

2038
02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:18,600
Speaker 1: for the whole thing with you know which Apple are

2039
02:05:18,640 --> 02:05:24,120
Speaker 1: pushing now with the the spatial music in headphones, it's

2040
02:05:24,200 --> 02:05:26,640
Speaker 1: like it's like what you were saying earlier about when

2041
02:05:27,080 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 1: you hear a remix of the Beatles and doesn't even

2042
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:32,240
Speaker 1: sound like the Beatles, and it's like the same thing

2043
02:05:32,280 --> 02:05:34,720
Speaker 1: that happening in spatial It's like, what's the point of

2044
02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:37,760
Speaker 1: doing it for headphones? So, I mean, you know who

2045
02:05:37,840 --> 02:05:40,680
Speaker 1: wants I don't know. If you're in a room in

2046
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:44,880
Speaker 1: an environment where you're totally you know, you're totally covered

2047
02:05:44,920 --> 02:05:46,560
Speaker 1: with sound. That's one thing when you've got a pair

2048
02:05:46,560 --> 02:05:48,920
Speaker 1: of headphones in, you know, and things coming out the

2049
02:05:48,960 --> 02:05:51,640
Speaker 1: back of your neck, the back of your head, It's like,

2050
02:05:52,160 --> 02:05:54,960
Speaker 1: that's that's not a very good experience. I don't think so.

2051
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm really pushing to get ATMOS music played in sin

2052
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:04,920
Speaker 1: miles because cinemas have atmos or an auditoriums that also

2053
02:06:05,080 --> 02:06:07,800
Speaker 1: have ATMOS. There's there's a whole you know, there's a

2054
02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:12,040
Speaker 1: whole new way to get ATMOS music to people, apart

2055
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:17,120
Speaker 1: from earbats. Okay, a couple of things. The remixes are

2056
02:06:17,240 --> 02:06:20,800
Speaker 1: beyond defensive. There are songs where the vocal is so

2057
02:06:21,080 --> 02:06:25,760
Speaker 1: far down it's just really crazy forgetting the fact that

2058
02:06:25,800 --> 02:06:31,000
Speaker 1: we've had so many failed formats quad you know, s A, C, D, etcetera.

2059
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:35,760
Speaker 1: If we start a new with new records, is there

2060
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:39,480
Speaker 1: a future in mixing those for headphones? And is the

2061
02:06:39,600 --> 02:06:43,320
Speaker 1: learning curve too steep for engineers? What do you think? Now?

2062
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:45,640
Speaker 1: Don't think the only curve is too steep, But it

2063
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:48,600
Speaker 1: goes back to think of that. Okay, if you're recording

2064
02:06:48,680 --> 02:06:52,240
Speaker 1: from scratch and I'm doing this, actually I'm I'm recording

2065
02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:56,600
Speaker 1: music for atmos. But my my game plan is that. Um,

2066
02:06:56,960 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 1: I want to be called all real instruments. I don't

2067
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:03,440
Speaker 1: and the recording these synthpads um and he at eates,

2068
02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:06,920
Speaker 1: it's all real instruments. So it's it's in that term.

2069
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:11,400
Speaker 1: It's classical. Now this sound, um, and I've done this

2070
02:07:11,440 --> 02:07:17,120
Speaker 1: already that just putting that into a Dolby atmosphere is amazing. Um.

2071
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:25,160
Speaker 1: You know, acoustic guitar, marimba, violin's, clarinet, piano. Because sonically

2072
02:07:25,360 --> 02:07:27,840
Speaker 1: it works. I mean it's like listening to a Frank

2073
02:07:27,840 --> 02:07:33,360
Speaker 1: Sinatra album or the George Shearing album. It really works well. Um.

2074
02:07:34,120 --> 02:07:37,360
Speaker 1: When um, when it changes for me is when it

2075
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:42,200
Speaker 1: becomes all programmed music, which okay, UM, I'm not a

2076
02:07:42,280 --> 02:07:45,040
Speaker 1: big fan of program music, so it's not fair for

2077
02:07:45,120 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 1: me to diss that music. But um, if it's written

2078
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:55,560
Speaker 1: for Dolby and conceived before it's on a stereophile, then

2079
02:07:55,600 --> 02:08:00,280
Speaker 1: it's great. It can down terrific um. So I think

2080
02:08:00,360 --> 02:08:04,040
Speaker 1: there will be music. There is music being written for atmos,

2081
02:08:04,160 --> 02:08:08,480
Speaker 1: for Dolby atmos um um. But my fear, of my

2082
02:08:08,640 --> 02:08:11,120
Speaker 1: worry is that it could it could go down the

2083
02:08:11,200 --> 02:08:13,960
Speaker 1: toilet because the record companies are jumping on the bandmag

2084
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:16,960
Speaker 1: and of the gimmick of it, um And most of

2085
02:08:17,040 --> 02:08:19,480
Speaker 1: it is a gimmick. In my mind. The whole headphone

2086
02:08:19,480 --> 02:08:22,640
Speaker 1: thing is a gimmick. Um. If you if you experience

2087
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:25,160
Speaker 1: it in an auditory in a I mean, you know,

2088
02:08:25,360 --> 02:08:28,240
Speaker 1: no one can hear Dolby Atmos like we can in

2089
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:31,200
Speaker 1: a recording studio. You know, it's like, but you can

2090
02:08:31,320 --> 02:08:33,600
Speaker 1: hear in the cinema. You can hear it in an

2091
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:36,960
Speaker 1: environment where you know that speaker capability is in there.

2092
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:39,680
Speaker 1: So that kind of makes sense to me. Um And

2093
02:08:41,240 --> 02:08:44,839
Speaker 1: one of the best Atmos mixes I've heard is Rocketman

2094
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:48,600
Speaker 1: Elton John, I mean, and that was mixed by um

2095
02:08:49,000 --> 02:08:50,960
Speaker 1: or Andy I can't going to be his name now,

2096
02:08:51,040 --> 02:08:53,320
Speaker 1: but it was mixed by one of the original engineers.

2097
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:56,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't farmed out to someone. It sounds incredible. I'm

2098
02:08:56,840 --> 02:08:59,840
Speaker 1: hearing stuff that I've never heard before. The placement of

2099
02:09:00,080 --> 02:09:04,520
Speaker 1: it is beautiful. Um And then I hear other stuff,

2100
02:09:04,560 --> 02:09:08,520
Speaker 1: which is just I heard Marvin Gaye, what's going on exactly?

2101
02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:11,720
Speaker 1: That's the worst. I mean, that really turned me off. Well, Well,

2102
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've got the stems for that

2103
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:16,960
Speaker 1: at home. I could do a better mixed up for sure.

2104
02:09:17,080 --> 02:09:19,920
Speaker 1: So I'm actually digging of you know, getting an ATMOS

2105
02:09:20,000 --> 02:09:22,920
Speaker 1: system and starting off on headphones because you can start

2106
02:09:22,960 --> 02:09:25,960
Speaker 1: off mixing your headphones. You don't need the studio. And

2107
02:09:26,160 --> 02:09:29,240
Speaker 1: the great thing about Dolby is they're helping engineers and producers.

2108
02:09:29,320 --> 02:09:31,840
Speaker 1: So you know, I could mix something at home in

2109
02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:34,640
Speaker 1: atmost all my headphones and take it to Dolby play

2110
02:09:34,840 --> 02:09:38,560
Speaker 1: in there in there at my studio and go, oh, actually,

2111
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:41,720
Speaker 1: you know that vocals too high in relationship to the

2112
02:09:41,760 --> 02:09:44,200
Speaker 1: speakers over your head and stuff like that. And once

2113
02:09:44,240 --> 02:09:46,160
Speaker 1: you get that together that you can set a template

2114
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:48,480
Speaker 1: up at home. So you get a template going and

2115
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:51,240
Speaker 1: it's easier to you know, to mix at home without

2116
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:54,760
Speaker 1: the expense of all the speakers. Um So. But then

2117
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:57,720
Speaker 1: the other issue is folding it down into by noural.

2118
02:09:57,960 --> 02:10:01,320
Speaker 1: That's that's a problem that's hasn't really been sorted out.

2119
02:10:01,600 --> 02:10:05,120
Speaker 1: I've I've heard mixes where, um, I know the mix

2120
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:08,680
Speaker 1: really well and say, for instance, like a guitar, it's

2121
02:10:08,720 --> 02:10:11,280
Speaker 1: coming out over your head, over the top speakers, and

2122
02:10:11,360 --> 02:10:15,640
Speaker 1: when it gets folded down from atmost into seven point one, um,

2123
02:10:15,960 --> 02:10:19,880
Speaker 1: the guitar, sorry, the guitars on the left side, the

2124
02:10:19,960 --> 02:10:22,400
Speaker 1: guitar suddenly coming out over your head, so the fold

2125
02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:28,040
Speaker 1: down doesn't happen. The software seems to estimate where it

2126
02:10:28,080 --> 02:10:32,520
Speaker 1: should be. Um, So there's got to be some engineering

2127
02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:35,640
Speaker 1: where you know, it knows exactly where it should be

2128
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:37,800
Speaker 1: if you're doing it hard left or hard right, rather

2129
02:10:37,840 --> 02:10:41,440
Speaker 1: than simulating where it should be. But I think the

2130
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:45,360
Speaker 1: format could be really really interesting. But it is really interesting.

2131
02:10:45,400 --> 02:10:47,200
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of stuff, but it's still in

2132
02:10:47,280 --> 02:10:54,400
Speaker 1: its early days, of of of of being treated with respect. Um. Yeah,

2133
02:10:54,520 --> 02:10:59,840
Speaker 1: it's quite amazing, um. Bruce Bruce, Bruce Bochnick has actually

2134
02:11:01,120 --> 02:11:04,720
Speaker 1: the storm um for at most it's as incredible, I

2135
02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:08,240
Speaker 1: mean amazing. And it's so simple. I mean that compeable

2136
02:11:08,240 --> 02:11:12,400
Speaker 1: in night tracks, ain't that? Um, Well, there's a long history.

2137
02:11:12,520 --> 02:11:15,480
Speaker 1: He made it in five point one. He's been through

2138
02:11:15,560 --> 02:11:18,120
Speaker 1: so many iterations. I think, you know, not to put

2139
02:11:18,200 --> 02:11:20,960
Speaker 1: him down. But it's not like he came from stereo

2140
02:11:21,120 --> 02:11:24,680
Speaker 1: and went there. They've done a lot of versions in between. Okay,

2141
02:11:24,840 --> 02:11:26,520
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying about having the respect

2142
02:11:26,560 --> 02:11:29,480
Speaker 1: for the music, and they understand exactly that's so important,

2143
02:11:29,880 --> 02:11:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, he could I just have to ask you

2144
02:11:31,560 --> 02:11:35,280
Speaker 1: about one more band. I remember going to k Rock

2145
02:11:35,360 --> 02:11:40,000
Speaker 1: Acoustic Christmas in two and there's ten bands. The headliner

2146
02:11:40,280 --> 02:11:44,000
Speaker 1: is Duran. Duran. Half an hour, all of a sudden

2147
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:46,560
Speaker 1: they come out and play this song called Ordinary World.

2148
02:11:47,080 --> 02:11:50,840
Speaker 1: I got it immediately. This was before the band the

2149
02:11:50,920 --> 02:11:54,000
Speaker 1: album was released. There are two tracks on that album

2150
02:11:54,280 --> 02:11:58,320
Speaker 1: like that that and come Undone. How did you get involved?

2151
02:11:58,960 --> 02:12:01,800
Speaker 1: How did you make those records? They haven't done anything

2152
02:12:02,120 --> 02:12:05,320
Speaker 1: quite at that level since so and they were seen

2153
02:12:05,400 --> 02:12:09,840
Speaker 1: as you know eighty six. The fact that all of

2154
02:12:09,840 --> 02:12:13,360
Speaker 1: a sudden they had this incredible material which was very successful,

2155
02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:18,840
Speaker 1: was astounding. Well, I Um, I was always a fan

2156
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:21,720
Speaker 1: of Dround Around. I loved A Round Around ever since

2157
02:12:21,760 --> 02:12:25,800
Speaker 1: they appeared on the scene. As it were, because of

2158
02:12:25,920 --> 02:12:29,200
Speaker 1: my friendship with Peter Rudge, who was to a manager

2159
02:12:29,880 --> 02:12:33,720
Speaker 1: for the Stones for a long time. UM. Peter introduced

2160
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:35,520
Speaker 1: me to the band because he was managing the band

2161
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:38,440
Speaker 1: at that time and asked me if I'd like to

2162
02:12:38,520 --> 02:12:40,720
Speaker 1: have produced them. I said, well, I'd love to produced

2163
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:43,520
Speaker 1: Rounder and I love them, so I got together with him.

2164
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:48,000
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the Dround Around. It was um So

2165
02:12:48,800 --> 02:12:55,440
Speaker 1: Um Rodgers, the drummer had left the band. Um and

2166
02:12:55,680 --> 02:12:58,080
Speaker 1: the guitar player had left the band, so when I

2167
02:12:58,240 --> 02:13:01,720
Speaker 1: met them, it was Sterling who was the drummer in

2168
02:13:01,760 --> 02:13:06,680
Speaker 1: the band, and Warren Um the guitar player who played

2169
02:13:06,760 --> 02:13:10,720
Speaker 1: with Missing was it Missing Person? Yeah? I think he

2170
02:13:10,720 --> 02:13:13,520
Speaker 1: played with Zappa as well. Warren was a tour of

2171
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:16,320
Speaker 1: the False I mean, he was such a great guitar

2172
02:13:16,440 --> 02:13:21,680
Speaker 1: player and a good songwriter, and sonically his sounds were like,

2173
02:13:22,040 --> 02:13:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, so different to what I've ever heard before.

2174
02:13:24,920 --> 02:13:30,040
Speaker 1: So it was a strange album for me experienced wise,

2175
02:13:30,080 --> 02:13:32,240
Speaker 1: because there were two brand new members in the band.

2176
02:13:33,080 --> 02:13:34,840
Speaker 1: So it would have been it would have been good

2177
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:38,240
Speaker 1: if they had come along maybe like eight months later, um,

2178
02:13:38,920 --> 02:13:42,000
Speaker 1: because you know, then they really were integrated into the band.

2179
02:13:42,120 --> 02:13:45,800
Speaker 1: So UM, I did the album before the one you're

2180
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:48,920
Speaker 1: talking about, Ordinary World. I did the album before that,

2181
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:51,760
Speaker 1: so I was like the Um. I was like the

2182
02:13:51,840 --> 02:13:55,880
Speaker 1: opening act for the next album. But we did record

2183
02:13:56,000 --> 02:13:58,640
Speaker 1: some amazing songs in the album that I did. There's

2184
02:13:58,680 --> 02:14:03,400
Speaker 1: one sort called Antarctica, another one called Serious, and those

2185
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:06,360
Speaker 1: two songs were much more. They weren't kind of pop

2186
02:14:06,480 --> 02:14:09,840
Speaker 1: rock songs. They were you know, almost ballads, you know,

2187
02:14:09,960 --> 02:14:12,920
Speaker 1: they were. They were beautiful, laid back around songs, and

2188
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 1: the course the record company didn't want that. They wanted

2189
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:18,360
Speaker 1: all the you know, up tempo stuff, which was a

2190
02:14:18,440 --> 02:14:22,160
Speaker 1: shame because that wasn't that wasn't the good stuff on

2191
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:25,080
Speaker 1: the album. That was the weaker material of anything. UM.

2192
02:14:25,200 --> 02:14:30,080
Speaker 1: But in working with them, durround Um, Nick and Simon

2193
02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:34,440
Speaker 1: and John we became again. We're still great friends to

2194
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:37,480
Speaker 1: this day, I mean really good friends. And considering it

2195
02:14:37,640 --> 02:14:42,000
Speaker 1: was an album that was one of their poorest performing UM,

2196
02:14:42,280 --> 02:14:45,080
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's always good to see them UM.

2197
02:14:45,520 --> 02:14:48,440
Speaker 1: And I'm just so happy that you know, they're still

2198
02:14:48,520 --> 02:14:50,920
Speaker 1: doing it UM. And you know, they signed up with

2199
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:54,880
Speaker 1: BMG now they got you know, new label, UM and

2200
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:58,839
Speaker 1: they're doing things and and Nick is incredible. Nick's always

2201
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:02,840
Speaker 1: looking for, you know, something new sonically and musically and

2202
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:06,280
Speaker 1: in collaborations as well. He's a very smart man. Give

2203
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:08,520
Speaker 1: me you were a picture of what's going on in

2204
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:13,160
Speaker 1: the music business today. There's two pictures I'm seeing. There's

2205
02:15:13,240 --> 02:15:17,360
Speaker 1: one is I'm very futunate that I'm still working and

2206
02:15:17,520 --> 02:15:22,560
Speaker 1: involved with a lot of young talent, young musicians, some

2207
02:15:22,760 --> 02:15:29,839
Speaker 1: incredible musicians as well. Really really um just playing instruments

2208
02:15:29,920 --> 02:15:33,360
Speaker 1: all day long, writing all day long. UM. COVID has

2209
02:15:33,400 --> 02:15:35,880
Speaker 1: been a nightmare for them, but it's been a nightmare

2210
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:39,880
Speaker 1: for all musicians, but the good ones, you know, that's

2211
02:15:39,920 --> 02:15:42,960
Speaker 1: what they know and love. So I'm still surrounded by that,

2212
02:15:43,200 --> 02:15:45,800
Speaker 1: and people are still sending the emails to work with

2213
02:15:45,880 --> 02:15:48,760
Speaker 1: them and help them on stuff. So that's you know,

2214
02:15:49,080 --> 02:15:52,600
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. And I love to share, you know, my

2215
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:57,200
Speaker 1: fifty four years of knowledge and making them, recording great

2216
02:15:57,280 --> 02:16:00,760
Speaker 1: albums with them and to to help them get to

2217
02:16:01,040 --> 02:16:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, what they want to achieve and what they

2218
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:07,520
Speaker 1: want to hear um UM. So that's one great picture

2219
02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:09,800
Speaker 1: and you know, and they can get it out there,

2220
02:16:09,840 --> 02:16:12,920
Speaker 1: they can easily release it. Then then it's up to

2221
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:15,840
Speaker 1: them to you know, do the social network thing um,

2222
02:16:16,840 --> 02:16:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, which is that's another job in its in

2223
02:16:19,480 --> 02:16:22,640
Speaker 1: its own, but you know, so it is possible for

2224
02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:26,800
Speaker 1: an unknown artist if they really die hards, if they're

2225
02:16:26,800 --> 02:16:28,440
Speaker 1: going to perform live as well, they can get it

2226
02:16:28,520 --> 02:16:31,680
Speaker 1: out there. So that's good. And then I also see UM,

2227
02:16:31,800 --> 02:16:35,680
Speaker 1: I see labels like BMG who are supporting you know,

2228
02:16:36,160 --> 02:16:40,200
Speaker 1: the vintage, the older acts um and helping them preserve

2229
02:16:40,800 --> 02:16:44,960
Speaker 1: their heritage, preserve their catalog UM and you know, keeping

2230
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:47,360
Speaker 1: them going into the future as well without you know,

2231
02:16:47,520 --> 02:16:51,119
Speaker 1: crazy deals where they're you know, forever paying back the money. UM.

2232
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:55,080
Speaker 1: So I'm kind of encouraged by the business at the moment.

2233
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:58,440
Speaker 1: Um Um. I'm not going to get into the streaming

2234
02:16:58,560 --> 02:17:03,040
Speaker 1: thing because that's another area that's um um in a

2235
02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:05,320
Speaker 1: sense I don't know enough about. But I know it's

2236
02:17:05,400 --> 02:17:07,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's not given the artists back their jews,

2237
02:17:08,520 --> 02:17:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, which they're really owned at all. It's it's

2238
02:17:11,560 --> 02:17:15,640
Speaker 1: a fragment of um of what they should be getting.

2239
02:17:15,879 --> 02:17:18,960
Speaker 1: And that's the deal done with the record companies and

2240
02:17:19,080 --> 02:17:22,280
Speaker 1: the streaming companies. You know. I understand the business of it,

2241
02:17:22,400 --> 02:17:27,120
Speaker 1: but I don't respect it at all. Okay, now, as

2242
02:17:27,280 --> 02:17:31,440
Speaker 1: it's transition from big studio to small studio, a lot

2243
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:34,880
Speaker 1: of people of an older vintage are complaining there's not

2244
02:17:35,160 --> 02:17:38,760
Speaker 1: enough money to do it right. At best, you can

2245
02:17:38,920 --> 02:17:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, cut the basics in a big studio. Do

2246
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:44,320
Speaker 1: you think the ship has already sailed and you can

2247
02:17:44,400 --> 02:17:47,400
Speaker 1: work with the new technology and make is big or

2248
02:17:47,520 --> 02:17:51,960
Speaker 1: you lamenting just not enough money to make the record? Um.

2249
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:54,280
Speaker 1: I think there is the money to make the record, um.

2250
02:17:54,840 --> 02:17:59,080
Speaker 1: But the money should be there only if the musician,

2251
02:17:59,440 --> 02:18:03,560
Speaker 1: the band, the artist is ready to go into a studio.

2252
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:06,920
Speaker 1: You know, I've made records where I've done a whole

2253
02:18:06,959 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 1: album in three days. So um, if anyone's that good,

2254
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:13,960
Speaker 1: they can easily raise the money to go in with

2255
02:18:14,040 --> 02:18:16,440
Speaker 1: a band or whatever to make an album in three

2256
02:18:16,520 --> 02:18:19,879
Speaker 1: days of high quality if they're of the high quality

2257
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:25,000
Speaker 1: as well. So I um, there's yeah, okay, there's there's

2258
02:18:25,240 --> 02:18:28,960
Speaker 1: no money coming from the majors for for new artists

2259
02:18:29,440 --> 02:18:33,080
Speaker 1: in that respect. Um. It's more it's turned out that

2260
02:18:33,160 --> 02:18:35,520
Speaker 1: the A and R, that the publishers are becoming the

2261
02:18:35,600 --> 02:18:37,800
Speaker 1: A and R people, and they're the ones who are

2262
02:18:37,800 --> 02:18:40,920
Speaker 1: giving money to the artists, the unknown artists because they're

2263
02:18:41,120 --> 02:18:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, they're signing their their publishing and bedding on that.

2264
02:18:44,240 --> 02:18:46,240
Speaker 1: So I think that's where the money is coming in from.

2265
02:18:46,320 --> 02:18:49,880
Speaker 1: But there's also money coming in from fans. Um. You know,

2266
02:18:50,080 --> 02:18:53,200
Speaker 1: quite a few records have been made have made, have

2267
02:18:53,320 --> 02:18:57,600
Speaker 1: been funded by the fans by well pledges no longer around,

2268
02:18:57,680 --> 02:19:01,760
Speaker 1: but you know, um of that type of funding. Um.

2269
02:19:02,480 --> 02:19:05,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's really good too because the then

2270
02:19:05,400 --> 02:19:07,880
Speaker 1: the fan base is involved in the making of the

2271
02:19:07,959 --> 02:19:11,040
Speaker 1: record and Meridian we're really one of the first man's

2272
02:19:11,080 --> 02:19:14,520
Speaker 1: to start that, and they've done so much from it.

2273
02:19:14,560 --> 02:19:16,760
Speaker 1: I mean, if anyone wants to look at a template

2274
02:19:16,800 --> 02:19:18,680
Speaker 1: a how to do it, we're really in a shining

2275
02:19:18,720 --> 02:19:21,560
Speaker 1: an example. I mean the fact that you know a

2276
02:19:21,680 --> 02:19:25,000
Speaker 1: band that was dropped that was you know, the change

2277
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:27,280
Speaker 1: of seeing a change of everything all of a sudden.

2278
02:19:27,280 --> 02:19:30,320
Speaker 1: They're playing at the Albert hall Um, you know, and

2279
02:19:30,440 --> 02:19:34,680
Speaker 1: they're they're making great records still and setting out. But

2280
02:19:34,760 --> 02:19:36,440
Speaker 1: you've got to go on the road as well. That's

2281
02:19:36,640 --> 02:19:38,960
Speaker 1: that's the other I think a lot of music now,

2282
02:19:41,040 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 1: a lot of music is connected, um with It's always

2283
02:19:44,560 --> 02:19:47,879
Speaker 1: been connected with fashion, but even more so fashion orientated

2284
02:19:48,320 --> 02:19:51,280
Speaker 1: music made in bedrooms. I'm sick of hearing that old story.

2285
02:19:51,360 --> 02:19:54,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been making records where someone sent me

2286
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:56,960
Speaker 1: the vocal on the guitar recording an iPhone and it

2287
02:19:57,000 --> 02:19:59,920
Speaker 1: sounds great. I've actually done backing vocals on the night

2288
02:20:00,080 --> 02:20:03,960
Speaker 1: phone and put them into a track. So it's more

2289
02:20:04,000 --> 02:20:06,160
Speaker 1: about what you get down on tape as its well

2290
02:20:06,240 --> 02:20:10,160
Speaker 1: what you get down rather than where you do it.

2291
02:20:10,360 --> 02:20:14,040
Speaker 1: Although I do still believe and I know that if

2292
02:20:14,120 --> 02:20:17,160
Speaker 1: you're a group of musicians or you want to create

2293
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:20,000
Speaker 1: something so special with a group of musicians, even if

2294
02:20:20,040 --> 02:20:22,160
Speaker 1: you're a solo artist, you have to do it in

2295
02:20:22,200 --> 02:20:27,640
Speaker 1: a recording studio, in a in a real professional recording studio. Um,

2296
02:20:28,240 --> 02:20:32,960
Speaker 1: so you capture that moment um, Yeah, in that way,

2297
02:20:33,360 --> 02:20:36,960
Speaker 1: and something special happens when you when a group of

2298
02:20:37,040 --> 02:20:39,400
Speaker 1: musicians getting the room and played together, as opposed to

2299
02:20:39,879 --> 02:20:42,120
Speaker 1: I'm doing the drums at home, I'm doing the guitar

2300
02:20:42,200 --> 02:20:44,960
Speaker 1: in someone else's room. I'm doing you know, putting it

2301
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:48,080
Speaker 1: all together from different rooms all over the world or

2302
02:20:48,160 --> 02:20:53,760
Speaker 1: different parts of whatever country you're in. Um, that's that's painful.

2303
02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:58,640
Speaker 1: Christs has been hotterly fantastic. I got so many more questions.

2304
02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:02,039
Speaker 1: We gotta leave shore for now. Maybe we'll go another

2305
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:04,680
Speaker 1: deeper another time. You know, I'd love to b I

2306
02:21:04,879 --> 02:21:06,680
Speaker 1: was just blown away, you know, when you hit the

2307
02:21:06,760 --> 02:21:09,680
Speaker 1: mic running. You were just unbelievably great. The stories you

2308
02:21:09,760 --> 02:21:12,600
Speaker 1: were telling, amplifying all the issues. I can't thank you

2309
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:15,640
Speaker 1: enough for doing Bob. It's really been it's really been

2310
02:21:15,680 --> 02:21:17,879
Speaker 1: a pleasure to told you because I've yeah, I've known

2311
02:21:17,959 --> 02:21:21,720
Speaker 1: you for a long time, so it's great to see

2312
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:24,000
Speaker 1: you and to talk to you. And yeah, i'd love

2313
02:21:24,080 --> 02:21:26,879
Speaker 1: to come back and do a part two and talk

2314
02:21:26,920 --> 02:21:31,480
Speaker 1: about lots of other stuff. It's okay, this has been

2315
02:21:31,560 --> 02:21:34,560
Speaker 1: great until next time. This is Bob left stuff.