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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Joining us now from

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill is Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, the

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Speaker 1: ranking member on the Senate Banking Committee, who I suspect

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Speaker 1: has a few questions ready for mister Myron. Senator, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Bloomberg's TV and radio. In the first hearing

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Speaker 1: for Stephen Myron to join the Federal Reserve Board of Governors,

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Speaker 1: we'll see this tomorrow. His opening remarks, some of his

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Speaker 1: prepared remarks were released, and he writes, in my view,

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Speaker 1: the most important job of the Central Bank is to

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Speaker 1: prevent depressions and hyper inflations. Do you agree with him?

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Speaker 1: And do you believe him?

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Speaker 2: Look, can we just back up just a tiny little bit,

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Speaker 2: and that is the Banking Committee should be holding hearing tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: but it should not be a business as usual. Let's

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Speaker 2: grease the skids and run through Donald Trump's nominee for

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Speaker 2: the FED. Instead, we should be heavy an oversight hearing

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Speaker 2: about Donald Trump's unprecedented attacks on the independence of the FED.

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Speaker 2: He has made three hard runs at the FED over

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Speaker 2: the past few months, trying to fire Jerome Pal just

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Speaker 2: on his own, trying to fire Jerome Pal for cause,

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Speaker 2: trumping up charges around how much money he had spent

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Speaker 2: in the FED building rehabilitation, and now trying to fire

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Speaker 2: Lisa Cook. Donald Trump is making a move to try

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Speaker 2: to destroy the independence of the Federal Reserve Bank, unlike

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Speaker 2: anything that has ever been done in American history. And

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Speaker 2: right now the Republicans who run the committee are saying,

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Speaker 2: let's just have a business as usual, Let's bring up

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Speaker 2: the Donald Trump nominee, move him on through. And I

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Speaker 2: just want to be clear, I think that is a mistake.

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Speaker 2: I think we have a responsibility to address this question

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Speaker 2: of FED independence.

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Speaker 3: First, Senator Warren, let's talk about Lisa Cook there in

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Speaker 3: the seat, that of course is getting a lot of attention,

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Speaker 3: your colleague, FM. North Carolina Senator Tillis earlier today said

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Speaker 3: he would not consider nominating someone to take her place

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Speaker 3: while the litigation was ongoing. If the Supreme Court, for example,

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Speaker 3: does rule in fact that while the litigation is on

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Speaker 3: going to figure out whether her firing was in fact legal,

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Speaker 3: would you be willing to block Donald Trump's nominee to

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Speaker 3: fill that seat.

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Speaker 2: Look, Donald Trump cannot fire Lisa Cook based on at

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Speaker 2: least the facts or non facts that have been presented

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Speaker 2: thus far. Again, this is about independence of the FED

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Speaker 2: and Donald Trump's efforts to seize control over the FED,

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Speaker 2: and yes, I would try to block that, and I

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Speaker 2: would think the Republican senators, who also care about independence

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Speaker 2: of the FED would do the same. You know, I

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Speaker 2: just want to remind everyone why we have an independent FED.

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Speaker 2: And that's true whether you have a Democrat in the

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Speaker 2: White House or a Republican in the White House. You

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Speaker 2: in theory, have a group of people out there who

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Speaker 2: look at the economic numbers and they make decisions on

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Speaker 2: things like interest rates as best they can based on

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Speaker 2: those numbers, not based on political pressure from the President

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Speaker 2: of the United States. If Donald Trump destroys that, sure

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Speaker 2: he may be able to get what he wants on

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Speaker 2: interest rates in the short term, but he undermines confidence

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Speaker 2: in the FED and its decision making and its rate setting.

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Speaker 2: We've seen this before when autocrats have taken over central

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Speaker 2: bank in places like Turkey. What happens is interest rates

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Speaker 2: shoot through the roof, and that is a real problem

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Speaker 2: for our economy. Everybody has a stake in an independent

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Speaker 2: FED and to let Donald Trump just destroy that without

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Speaker 2: even pushing back is a terrible.

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Speaker 3: Mistake, Senator Warren, I hear you, But if the Supreme

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Speaker 3: Court rules that a nominee can actually take her place,

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Speaker 3: how do you plan on blocking that.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the minority. I understand that, but I would

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Speaker 2: try to persuade my Republican colleagues that it would be

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Speaker 2: a terrible mistake to help Donald Trump in effect destroy

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Speaker 2: the independence of the FED. Look, this is nothing new

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Speaker 2: in the sense that go back and look at it.

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Speaker 2: There are many Republican senators who in times past have

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Speaker 2: talked about the importance of the independence of the FED, because,

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Speaker 2: like I say, that's not like a democratic position or

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Speaker 2: a Republican position. Nope, it's a position that those of

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Speaker 2: us who try to watch this about how regulation of

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Speaker 2: the economy works understand that from the beginning, providing some

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Speaker 2: insulation for the financial decision makers, like the people who

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Speaker 2: said interest rates, to insulate them from the political side

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Speaker 2: of the House, from the President of the United States,

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Speaker 2: is ultimately good for the economy. And it's why our

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Speaker 2: Fed's interst rate setting is the gold standard for the world,

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Speaker 2: and Donald Trump wants to burn that down.

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Speaker 1: Senator, I know that this sounds like it's turning into

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Speaker 1: a hearing that will be atypical tomorrow and something that

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Speaker 1: we're going to be watching and bringing to our viewers

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Speaker 1: and listeners here on Bloomberg. I do want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about a couple of other stories that are making

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Speaker 1: news today, and one that's from the New York Times

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Speaker 1: that has to do strangely with the New York mayoral race.

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Speaker 1: Not something I would tend to ask you about, but

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is reportedly considering giving roles to some of

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Speaker 1: the candidates in the New York mayoral race, including Eric Adams,

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Speaker 1: for potentially a job at HUD. The idea would be including,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Curtis Lea as well, that clear Aleen

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Speaker 1: for Andrew Cuomo. I don't know if you buy that reporting,

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Speaker 1: but you would have to clear a nominee to run HUD. Correct.

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Speaker 1: Is that something you would be prepared to do Secretary Adams.

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Speaker 2: Well, it depends on what he is nominated for. There

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Speaker 2: are a lot of jobs at HUD that don't require

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Speaker 2: Senate confirmation. We already have ahead of HUD. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what Donald Trump is proposing that. The part that's

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Speaker 2: triple underlined here is that Donald Trump supports Andrew Cuomo

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Speaker 2: to be mayor of New York period. That's all this

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Speaker 2: is about. And he is willing to bring the force

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Speaker 2: of the United States government to use his tools as

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Speaker 2: President of the United States, not on behalf of the

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Speaker 2: people of the United States, not on behalf of finding

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Speaker 2: the best nominee for position at HUD but to be

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Speaker 2: able to manipulate the mayoral race to try to help

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Speaker 2: and Drew Cuomo in New York City. I think that's

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Speaker 2: not only wrong for Donald Trump. I can't imagine that

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Speaker 2: this is going to make the people of New York

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Speaker 2: City say, woo, who Andrew Cuomo is my guy. I

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Speaker 2: think this is going to make the people of New

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Speaker 2: York City say, our city is not for sale to

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll see where this story goes. Senator. It does

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Speaker 1: seem we can't get away from the story surrounding the

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein files. And I know that there are a

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Speaker 1: series of approaches on Capitol Hill right now to get

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Speaker 1: the files released and to shed a light on the

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Speaker 1: stories of victims who held a news conference today, President

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Speaker 1: Trump was asked about this in the Oval office as

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Speaker 1: he sat next to the President of Poland. Part of

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Speaker 1: his response was, quote, it's really a Democrat hoax. I

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Speaker 1: know that no matter what you do, it's going to

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Speaker 1: keep going. Unquote. Is he right, this is a Democrat hoax?

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Speaker 2: No, Look, this is not the Democrats. This is Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump's own statements when he was running for president of

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Speaker 2: the United States. Go back and play the clips when

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Speaker 2: he and other Republicans promised, promised, promised that if Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump became president and Republicans were in control, they were

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Speaker 2: going to replay release all of the Epstein files. So

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Speaker 2: do it. Just do it, and I don't mean release

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Speaker 2: part of them. Do a little blackout, a little hair,

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Speaker 2: a little there. That's what's keeping this story alive. And

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Speaker 2: you really have to ask yourself, if Donald Trump wants

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Speaker 2: this story to go away, the way to do that

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Speaker 2: is release all of the documents. And if he thinks

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Speaker 2: that's not going to work, what's in those files?

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Warren, I'm sure we will find out. A final

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Speaker 3: question to you, were perhaps circling back to where we

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Speaker 3: started this time on the economy. One of the big

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Speaker 3: criticisms that we know J. Powell has based from various

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Speaker 3: members of Washington, including Donald Trump, and I believe in

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Speaker 3: yourself as well, is not cutting interest rates in the

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Speaker 3: face of inflation, as something Stephen Myron has been talking

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Speaker 3: about quite significantly as well. Can you just explain to

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Speaker 3: our Wall Street audience that's tuning into this program here

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Speaker 3: why rate cuts make sense if there's a risk of

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Speaker 3: exacerbating the impact of Donald Trump's tariffs on inflation.

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Speaker 2: So I started in two years ago saying that the

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Speaker 2: data on inflation showing that inflation was coming down, that

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Speaker 2: inflation was under better control, meant that Powell should start

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Speaker 2: rate cuts. I thought that was entirely appropriate. I did

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Speaker 2: my best to persuade him in a very public way,

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Speaker 2: and obviously I did not succeed. They did one rate cut,

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Speaker 2: but that was it. Now, what Powell himself said last

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Speaker 2: month was if Donald Trump had not created so much

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Speaker 2: chaos with the with the tariffs and what he's done

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Speaker 2: to the economy, that the Fed would have cut rates

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Speaker 2: last February. So think about that. That means that basically,

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Speaker 2: for six months now, Americans have been paying more on

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Speaker 2: their credit cards, They've been paying more on interest on

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Speaker 2: their car loans, and more on interest on home mortgage

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Speaker 2: home equity lines of credit, paying more because of the

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Speaker 2: chaos that Donald Trump has created with tariffs. So look,

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Speaker 2: I've been someone who thinks interest rates should come down,

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Speaker 2: but the biggest obstacle to that happening is Donald Trump himself.

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Speaker 2: If he wants to see interest rates come down, then

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Speaker 2: stop creating this kind of chaos in the economy and

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Speaker 2: stop this tear of fifty percent, ten percent, one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty seven percent that keeps businesses from being able

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Speaker 2: to plan, keeps businesses from buying new equipment and making investments,

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Speaker 2: keeps businesses from hiring more people. Donald Trump is the

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Speaker 2: number one reason in America that we do not have

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Speaker 2: a lower interest rate.

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Speaker 3: Today, Senator Warren will have to wrap up the conversation there.

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Speaker 3: Ranking Banking Committee Member Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts, we thank

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Speaker 3: you so much for your time