WEBVTT - Sánchez Down, Suárez To Go 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.160 Hi, this is call Hamil's Welcome to the Philly Show. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.200 Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Philly Show. Ruben Tomorrow, Junior, 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.480 Jim Salisbury. I'm todd so lucky, Ruben. 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.960 We are. We're in a duet situation. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.040 Yeah, we're missing. We're missing a big link. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.920 Jimmy is on assignment, so he's unable to join us today. 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.919 We're missing our big toe. 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.440 We are missing our big te Jim. We miss you. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.280 Come back, not seriously, Jim. We'll be back later this week. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.360 He could not make it before the Phillies opened the 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:47.920 series Monday night in Detroit. 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.160 But we got a lot to talk about, Ruber. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.640 I mean kind of a kind of a really big 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.160 news weekend for the Phillies starts with the Christopher Sanchez 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.520 twenty two and a half million dollars four year extension. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:05.480 This extension, to me, Rubin explains just how impossibly difficult 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.200 it is, I think to build a. 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.880 Franchise and an organization. Because you think about December of 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:17.200 twenty nineteen, the Tampa Bay Rays had to place him 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.000 on the forty men roster, and they're like, we have 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.399 some guys that are are better than him, so they 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.240 trade him to the Phillies for Curtis Mead. He's a 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:30.039 hard throwing lefty, and then he kind of like hit 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.720 some bumps in the road, the velocity drops, He's not 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.800 thrown strikes. Curtis Mead then becomes this top one hundred prospect. 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.520 This trade looks like a total bust. And then last 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.720 spring the Phillies are looking for a number five starter 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.120 and I'm sorry, spring of twenty twenty three and it's 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:53.400 like Bailey Folter versus Andrew Painter Sanchez. Nah, you know, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.800 we know he's not going to make the team, and 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.360 now he's got a twenty two and a half million 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:58.040 dollar contract. 0:01:58.120 --> 0:01:58.800 I mean, is that. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.640 It's just just shows you how like unpredictable and everything 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.320 is in player development, is right, I mean, what do 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.359 you think about just how that whole storyline, It. 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.480 Really is one of the things we talk about the 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:16.200 beauty of baseball time, right, and and you know everybody 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.840 wants to assess trades and decisions, uh, and then you 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.200 want to look at things like in a vacuum. Guess what, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.360 you have to kind of wait things out and see 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:28.320 how things play out. Because baseball is like no other sport. 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.440 You just don't know whether I mean, even the greatest 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.480 prospects in the world can fizzle out when they get 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:37.880 to the major leagues, or they can have one or 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.880 two great, great years and then become that they can 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.760 be the rookie of the year and then become nothing. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.000 And and it's it's really is an amazing sport in 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.920 that regard. And this is one of those situations where, hey, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.880 we're taking a chance in the Matt clintac and the 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.800 people take a chance on a big arm left hander 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.200 right And you know, I I just just in general, 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:05.520 when you start thinking about left handed pitchers, especially really 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.800 tall and lanky and leverage guys with a lot of 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.679 levers and leverage. I always I've talked to scouts over 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.120 the years, you just don't know when those guys are 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.960 going to be able to put their bodies in a 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.040 position to have success. In other words, can they ever 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.360 get consistent enough with their deliveries? Can they ever put 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.720 all the pieces in the parts together on a frame 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.919 like that to get to the point where they can 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.000 be effective major league players or consistent major league players. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.839 And this is guy, this is a guy that, to 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.000 his credit, got to that space. It took him a 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.119 little bit of time to get there, because I will 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.480 tell you I've seen a lot of baseball on my day, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.240 and this is one of the most amazing transformations of 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:57.160 a pitcher I've ever seen. And I'm not trying to 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.000 I'm not overstating this. By the time you're twenty five 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.800 or twenty six years old, you probably have a pretty 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.720 good idea what this guy is going to be, what 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.680 a player is going to be, whether he's gotten to 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.040 the big leagues or you know it's fairly close, or 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.400 he's had a little taste or what have you. And 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.320 when he first got to the big leagues, I look 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.719 to this guy and go, Wow, he's just he's just 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.600 a thrower. He has no idea where his fastball's going. 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:24.800 He's throwing ninety five or ninety six miles an hour. 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.560 At times he'll at ninety seven, and you're going, this 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.200 guy just doesn't For number one, he doesn't know where 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.039 his fastball's going. And number two, he doesn't have a 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.600 breaking pitch. He doesn't have a nice pitch. So you're 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.800 thinking yourself, Okay, this this was just sort of a 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:42.520 throwaway deal because he just doesn't He's not going to 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.440 be able to make the adjustments to be mechanically sad 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.159 enough to be able to pitch well. I mean, it 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.279 was obvious, and Matt gil had a great story about 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.400 it and talked a little bit about you know, his 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.680 over his development. But you know, it sort of takes 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.520 a village, you know. I think Cessar almost had a 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.080 little bit to do it him. He was a coach 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:06.440 in Triple A. I think, you know, Kevin Coffam obviously 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.799 has to get some love for it. But but really, 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.599 if the onus is on the pitcher, the picture himself, Chris, 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.159 you know, Christopher, he just decided, you know what, I'm 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.359 not going back down again. I'm gonna do what I 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.839 need to do and make the adjustments me personally to 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.920 be viable major league pitcher. And boy did he pitch 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:25.600 well at the end of the year last year and 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:30.800 put you basically, he changed his whole program. He became 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:35.240 a pitcher, he started throwing strikes more consistently, and actually, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.640 you know, beat out Bailly Falter and knocked him off 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.080 the you know, off off the grid, and uh, he 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.400 ended up being a pretty viable, you know, starter for them. 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.839 Still didn't know what what he was going to be 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:53.440 when you know, he rolled into spring training. But what 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.359 that that that transformation of one having one of the 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.000 best pitches in baseball now the change up with the 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:04.360 great arm action, great action, and great success with it. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.320 And then not only that, but he also started developing 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.000 like a slider. All of a sudden, he had like 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:10.920 a breaking pitch. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.560 Oh my good, right, you know, to me, it was 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:15.000 you know, it was funny. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.440 I was. I went back the past couple of days 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.280 and I read a lot of the stories that were 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.960 written when the Phillies got him in that trade, and 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.440 even the Phillies were saying, like, he's a hard throwing lefty. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.960 We like that, he's tall, we like that. It's kind 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.719 a decent slider and a decent change up. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.280 And it's just funny to think about now because that 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.839 change up has become, like you said, one of the 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:41.679 best pitches in baseball. I mean that game late late 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.839 last season against the Braves where he had, you know, 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.600 got like a ton of swings and misses and through 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.880 just a ton of change ups. But back when they 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.040 got him in December twenty nineteen, they're like, yeah, he's 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.240 he throws hard. Maybe he'll get something else going on, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:58.839 and now he finally got it. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.520 So it's interesting. So over the weekend, you know, Cole 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:06.080 Hamilton gets retired, I think it retires as affilly, and 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.480 you start thinking about left handers, and you start thinking 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.480 about tall left handers, okay, and why they become like 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.640 so important if they really get it, you know, if 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.560 they actually get it, because they can create. And I 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.840 was watching some of the film and I had forgotten, like, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.440 you know, Cole Hamil's with his delivery. He had so 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.160 much unbelievable leverage. He worked down down the slope, as 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.960 we talked about and as scouts talk about, and and 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.600 for a hitter, when you're looking at a pitch it's 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.920 down angle like that, I mean, it's it's difficult, sorry, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.800 difficult to hit. But when you have that kind of 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.480 down angle and you can and you can master your 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:45.920 ability to throw a couple of different pitches with that 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.520 angle and throw strikes with it, you can have a 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.680 lot of success. And that's kind of what's having on. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:55.680 Christopher Sanchez is a tall dude. He's got some serious leverage, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.040 and so now he's gotten to the point where, Okay, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.640 now I'm throwing ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, because 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.120 now I'm confident with my stuff and my ability to 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.040 repeat my fastball and to throw it where I want to, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.240 and I know that these guys are not going to 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.720 be able to handle my change up, and so it's 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.480 just it's it's a great story. It's a great signing. 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.840 He doesn't even I mean, I overstate this. He doesn't 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.840 have to even have a great career. But the importance 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.920 of sparring pitching is so high right now that hey, man, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.400 why not lock up a guy and let him feel 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.480 confident about himself. Typically, you don't want to sign a 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:39.679 guy when he's pitching at the top of his game, 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.160 but because you want to kind of wait for the 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.120 guy that you know, maybe you get a little discount 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.880 because the guy's not throwing all that well. But in 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.640 this case, I think they got a very reasonable contract 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.360 for a guy who I believe that will continue to 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.240 get better and better and better. And he's one of 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.160 the better pitchers in all of baseball right now. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.480 It's incredible, that's the thing, dah. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:02.880 He's kind of flying under the radar when you talk 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:07.040 to it about Wheeler and Nola and Suarez certainly, and 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:08.600 he's right up there when you look at some of 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.320 those numbers, you know, eer and just you know, overall production, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.480 he's been fantastic. Yes, twenty two and a half million dollar, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.679 four year deal, a couple bonut. 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.120 A couple of options down the road. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:22.160 But yeah, sixteen million and twenty twenty nine can escalate 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.080 if he you know, up to twenty nine or nineteen 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.040 million and twenty thirty based on some. 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.080 Incentives and things like that. But seems like you know 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:33.360 they're locking up that pitching. 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.400 So my question now, Ruben, is they locked up Christopher 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.120 Sanchez the other guys out there now? 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:42.559 Raiders swore as sure, and he. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:45.120 Will not be signing an extension for twenty two and 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.959 a half million dollars if he signs one. Oh no, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.920 he's so ranger has He's got this year, he's got 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.079 next year his last year of arbitration, and then he's 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.560 a free agent after twenty twenty five. And this might 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.440 be a dumb question, Rubina is I know you put 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:04.200 starting pitch above everything else, but can you lock up too. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.440 Many starting pitchers? Can you? 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:10.520 Can you put that much money into your rotation? Again, 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.000 I said, I say, maybe that's a dumb question, but 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:14.560 how do you if. 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.079 You're in Dave Dombrowski's shoes. How do you look at it? 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:18.880 It's like, no, we just have to do this, and 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:20.960 we're just gonna have four guys locked up. 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:21.520 What do you do? 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.160 I think you lock them all up? Okay? I mean 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.839 I I yeah, I mean and for me And again, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:28.480 you know, you're preaching in a little bit of the 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.199 choir in that I believe in starting pitching. And if 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.920 you have good quality starting pitching, boy, oh boy, you 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.360 need to hold on to it. Now. There's no question 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.080 and not everybody's gonna hit. You're not gonna make the 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.800 right decision on every single one of these guys. Somebody's 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.600 going to get hurt. Somebody's going down eight. There's gonna 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.920 be a ucl taire or an elbow or a brace 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.360 or whatever the case may be. It's going to happen. 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.160 But you sort of have to pay to play. Starting 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.680 pitching is so important. You start thinking about some of 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.880 the guys that are out there and what they what 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.080 they can command. As far as starting I think teams 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:09.760 are starting to understand that you cannot let your bullpen 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.760 eat up fifty or sixty percent of the innings that 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.319 are required to work your way through a major league season. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:23.480 And so I think pitchers who can pitch, who have 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:27.880 durability and have some length, which all of these guys do. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.120 And when I say all these guys, I'm talking about Wheeler, Nola, 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.480 Suarez and Sanchez, I mean you gotta kind of lock 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.439 them up because they're just too important. Because I still 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.600 believe this in my heart of hearts, and I'll never 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.720 stop believing it. If I have a solid starting pitcher 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:50.199 who can give me six to seven innings every single night, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.400 I know that I have a chance to win every 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:58.520 single night. And so I I got to live through 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.280 the Atlanta Braves ninety. I had to play against them 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.439 in the Atlanta Braves nineties, and yes, it was a magical, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.200 amazing thing. You had Hall of famers left and right. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.000 But there's a reason why they won the division for 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.439 fourteen straight years. It's because they had these unbelievable starting 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.840 pitchers who can give you length, they can give you consistency, 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.560 and they can keep you ever in every single baseball game. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.160 That's going to be a big contract if they can 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:27.200 get him to an extension. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.640 Yes, Suz Numbers, I mean you're we're talking about apples 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.880 and Oranges just because of what you know, won the 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:40.000 pedigree to the fact that you know, major league service 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.800 time wise, it's totally different because he's closer and he's 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:49.800 closer to cre agency than than Sanchez is. But he's 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:54.439 also done it in the biggest stage in two different 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.079 ways as a closer and a starter. And he has 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.840 some of the most amazing numbers in postseason play, which 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.520 is really where you know, the rubber meets the road. 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.559 He's done it. He's done it in the most important 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.079 times of the season. And uh yeah this I mean 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.440 Ranger Suarez. You know, barring something catastrophic, this young man 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.880 is going to be paid. And John Middleton and Dave 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:25.760 Dombrowski are intelligent men, uh and they are not going 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.440 to let that guy slip away because they know he's 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:29.400 just too important. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:35.080 So is there pressure on a GM front office to 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:36.800 tackle this this offseason? 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:38.800 I guess right. I mean, you don't want him to 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:42.000 get to free agency, but the Phillies let Nola. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.720 Get the free agency and they locked him up. I mean, 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.000 maybe this is a different situation, but is there is 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.120 there pressure going into the off season, like we got 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.480 to get Ranger locked up or do you can you 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.679 not think that way, do you? 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:54.280 You know what I mean? 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.400 Yeah, So there's so many there's so many different factors 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.000 about this. So it's one relationship. I think for me, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:04.719 it's the relationship of the Yeah, it's the relationship of 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.959 the of the organization with the agent David Rowski and 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.280 Sam and Sam with the you know, with with the agent. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.880 There is the willingness of the player to want to 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:23.320 stay at home in Philadelphia, not necessarily giving a hometown discount, 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:27.480 but just not wanting to necessarily want to wait to 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.520 free agency. There is the confidence of the player and 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.440 him saying, well, I'm going to get better and better 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.320 and better. So I'm going to wait and I'm going 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.520 to like you know, I'm going to wait for every 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.840 you know, the thirty plus teams that are going to 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.880 be making a run at me. There's a there's a 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.080 lot of different things that are associated with doing a 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:51.600 deal like that, and so I'm I don't know all 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.080 the inner workings of all those pieces, but they're all factors. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.760 There's no question about it. And you know, his overall 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.880 health as he continues to work through this season, Listen, 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:02.960 if the guy ends up being like number one number 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.320 two or number three in a cy Young voting. Yeah, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.440 you're gonna have to pay the map. And I didn't 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.680 never have any problem paying guys who performed. If he 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.000 performed and he believe that he's going to continue to do, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.040 so the go ahead, you got. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:15.240 To do it. 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.680 Yeah, it's it's you think about what he if. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.640 I mean right now you're thinking top three cy Young 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.760 Award winner finisher for sure. I mean right now, I 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.560 guess you could say he's the favorite. So that price 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.280 definitely goes up. It is just kind of crazy going 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.360 back though, to think you have Wheeler locked up to 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.480 this massive extension. You just signed Nola to a massive extension. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.440 You got Sanchez locked up, you know, twenty two and 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.320 a half million with some options down the road, and 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.200 then if God should be signed swore that's a pretty 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.520 heck of a good rotation with whoever the number five starter. 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:48.920 Ends up being. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:53.800 Right now, you have Taiwan Walker signed through two more seasons. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.040 You have Spencer Turnbull signed through this season. You have 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:03.520 Andrew Painter probably coming back next season, and you know, 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.360 I don't know what his status will be, how it'll 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.720 be throwing or whatever, but you have those guys, you 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.880 have somebody like Andrew Painter possibly down the road. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:12.800 Number five starter right now. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.640 Rubin of course, is a hot button topic because Taiwan 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.080 Walker got hit hard on Friday night. I was at 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.080 the game, brought my family, and he was getting crushed 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.480 with Booze, with the with the home runs, he allowed, 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.680 doesn't throw any splitters. He gets put on the injured 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.160 list because he's got a finger issue, a blister and 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.280 something else going on. Now Spencer Turnbull's back in there. 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.200 It's kind of a weird situation, isn't it with with 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.880 with Walker because he keeps saying is healthy, He's healthy, 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.000 He's healthy. I just don't have to feel for my splitter. 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.120 So I thought it was interesting when Rob Thompson said, 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:46.960 you know, he's not coming back until he can throw 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:47.520 his splitter. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.880 So I understand why. I understand why. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.440 Well, And it sounds like that there's some something mechanically 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.120 wrong with him, physically wrong with him, and that he 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.240 is not able to grip his splitter the way he 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.960 needs to to have it be effective. And whether it's 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.080 the middle of a finger or whatever the case may be. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.879 That's I mean, that's real. I mean, that's something that 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.320 if I mean, the guy can't grip the baseball properly 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.280 and he can't throw his best pitch, then he becomes 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.919 an ineffective pitcher, and which he has been over like 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:21.119 the last you know, few outings and the fact that 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.640 he hasn't even really been able to pitch them to make, 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.240 you know, to utilize that pitch pretty much all year long, right, 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:28.480 I mean, this is the guy who used it, what 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.960 thirty six thirty seven percent of the time over his 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.080 last year or two, and now all of a sudden, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.520 he can't throw the pitch. He's not swearing the pitch. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.199 There's something wrong with that. And so if you're not 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.280 trusting the pitch and you can't throw it, and you 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.160 physically can't throw it, then there's a reason why he's 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.040 put on the il and so will he be able 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.440 to bounce back from that? Perhaps who knows whether it's 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.080 a tenant issue or blister issue, whatever the case may be, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.520 but they do have a viable, you know option and 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:01.080 go with Spencer Turmbull, who pitched extremely well, and uh, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.159 you know, if you're not performing and then you're not 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:08.240 physically able to perform, then there's every reason why to 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:09.600 go ahead and put him on the I L and 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.600 allow Spence excuse me, Spencer Turnbull to go ahead and 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:14.680 take a start. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.200 Okay, so let me put you in this manager's shoes. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.840 Spencer Turnbull comes out and for the next two or 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.040 three starts pitches really well. Maybe not as good as 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.760 he pitches for a six starts we had like a 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:31.160 one six seventy, right, but he pitches pretty well. Now 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.040 Taiwan Walker says his finger feels better and he's starting 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:34.880 to throw a splitter. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:41.000 What do you do? It's a beautiful one. It's a 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.520 really tough one, and it's a tough one for Nebrowski. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:45.480 It's a tough one for John Middleton, it's a tough 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.760 one for for Sam, for Sam Fuld and for Thompson. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.040 But I'd love to have that problem, okay. I mean, 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.000 as a as a general manager, you're hoping that's the 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.520 problem because you can still slide Turnbull back if he 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.680 you know, you let go ahead, Let Taiwan Walker throw 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.880 a you know, either simulated games or throw as in rehab, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.840 and see if he's effective enough and how effective that 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.760 splitter is. I mean, there's scouts there, there's people there, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.439 there's you know, there's all types of ways to measure 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.280 that pitch and to see if that is working for 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.480 him and it's effective, and you give him another chance. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:32.320 Now that said, at some point, if he comes back 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.840 and he's not effective, then I gotta believe it that 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.800 the Phillies will make a change and they'll let Spencer Turmer, 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:42.040 especially if Spencer Turnbull is throwing well in that spot 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.719 or when he gets those you know, however many chances 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.080 he gets over the next you know, several weeks, whether 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.760 it's three starts, whether it's four starts, however many starts 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.200 it is. If he's pitches effectively, then I think and 0:19:55.200 --> 0:20:00.080 and then they give Tewan Walker another shot at it. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.960 I think the leash becomes shorter and shorter. And we've 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.040 talked about that leash. I think it becomes short and 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.720 shorter because they're in it to win it, they're not 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.600 in it to lose it. The one thing that does 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.320 become a bit of a factor is you just do 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.680 not know if Taiwan Walker can pitch out of the pen. 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.639 You know that Spencer Turnbull has done it, not a lot, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:23.879 but has done it and can do it, and so 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.679 that is also one of those pieces of the pie 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.320 that are pieces of the decision that you have to make. 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.440 Yeah, it's going to be interesting. I guess you're right, Ruben. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:34.640 Two. 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.840 They could based off how he's thrown it that goes 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.879 in a rehab assignment. The splitter's not there. It's an 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.840 easier decision, it's easier call to make. Maybe. 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.840 I remember you saying when they first put Walker back 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.760 in the rotation, you said maybe four or five starts. 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.040 He's gotten a little bit more than that to prove himself. 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:54.119 I feel like it's an easier argument to make if 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.080 you have to pull him now at the rotation, can say, listen, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.600 we gave you opportunities, and like you said, we're trying 0:20:58.600 --> 0:20:59.560