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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you

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Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is

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Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for a special bonus episode of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our

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Speaker 1: conversation afterword from our sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, I'm Natasha Rothwell and I'm so excited to be

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Speaker 3: on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, where I'll be

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Speaker 3: in session talking to you about me and the character

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Speaker 3: I play Melissa on my brand new show called How

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Speaker 3: to Die Alone.

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Speaker 1: Many of us fell in love with Natasha Rothwell through

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Speaker 1: her role as the hilarious Kelly on HBO's Insecure, and

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Speaker 1: later sustained that love as she appeared as Belinda Lindsay

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Speaker 1: in the White Lotus. Well, Natasha's back on our screens.

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Speaker 1: In this time. She's starring in a show that is

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Speaker 1: also self created and executive produced. It's called How to

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Speaker 1: Die Alone, and it's currently streaming on Hulu. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad to have Natasha here on the show today to

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Speaker 1: chat with me about all things. How To Die Alone

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Speaker 1: a show that explores themes such as self sabage, loneliness,

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Speaker 1: and feeling as if you're behind in life.

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Speaker 2: Some points we.

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Speaker 1: Touched on include the significance of having a black female,

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Speaker 1: plus size main character, how the show approaches tough situations

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Speaker 1: such as friendship breakups, and how Natasha is managing in

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Speaker 1: real life feelings of imposter syndrome while also continuing to

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Speaker 1: channel main character energy. If something resonates with you while

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Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag TBG in Session or join us over

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Speaker 1: in the sister circle to talk more about the episode.

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Speaker 1: You can join us at Community not Therapy for Blackgirls

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Here's our conversation. So, Natasha, I am just

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Speaker 1: thrilled to be chatting with you today. A huge fan

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Speaker 1: of your work, I know that myself and many of

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Speaker 1: our audience fell in love with you in the Insecure

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Speaker 1: and then continue that love to the White Lotus, and

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Speaker 1: we are here to talk about maybe your greatest work

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Speaker 1: of art to date, How to Die Alone, that is

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Speaker 1: on Hulu. So tell me how did you get involved

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Speaker 1: with this project.

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Speaker 3: I started working on this project about seven and a

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Speaker 3: half years ago. I was on Insecure and I got

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Speaker 3: a development deal for a pilot and it was basically

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Speaker 3: like having the proverbial blank sheet of paper passed to

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Speaker 3: me in the meeting, and I was terrified, just truly

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Speaker 3: terrified of like, I don't know what it is I

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Speaker 3: want to.

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Speaker 2: Say or what I want to do.

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Speaker 3: And I come out of the world of improv and

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Speaker 3: one of the biggest tenants is follow the fear, and

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Speaker 3: at the time, dying alone and wrestling with that idea

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Speaker 3: and the difference between being alone and lonely was a

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Speaker 3: huge part of what I was going through, and so

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Speaker 3: I decided to write about that.

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Speaker 1: Loved it. And so did you develop the story in

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Speaker 1: conjunction with other people or was it kind of your

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Speaker 1: brain child?

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Speaker 2: It's my brain child. The show is my baby for me.

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Speaker 3: I really wanted to dive deep and really sort of

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Speaker 3: approach it with as much vulnerable and authenticity as possible.

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Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean I didn't ultimately end up working

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Speaker 3: with some great people once we had a writer's room

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Speaker 3: and all of that.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, this is one of.

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Speaker 3: The most vulnerable things that I've done, is to put

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Speaker 3: myself out in this way with the show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I'm curious how you are feeling now

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Speaker 1: with it being out in the world, because I think

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Speaker 1: when artists like create a project that is so vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: so authentic to who they are, it can be scary

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Speaker 1: to put it out. So how are you feeling and

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Speaker 1: how are you navigating that now?

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Speaker 2: I mean scary to say the least. I think.

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Speaker 3: Also, what's funny in hindsight is it took so long

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Speaker 3: to work on it, So when you sometimes lose hope

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Speaker 3: as to whether or not something gets made, you get

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Speaker 3: a little bit more brave because you're like.

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Speaker 2: No one's ever gonna let me make this. And so

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Speaker 2: ultimately what got.

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Speaker 3: Green lit was a lot of brave shit on the page,

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Speaker 3: and so I was like, well, I got I gotta

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Speaker 3: do this now. But I'm feeling very blessed. I'm feeling

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Speaker 3: very grateful. It's over to be back in New York

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Speaker 3: for press. I live in LA but I used to

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Speaker 3: live here, and that's why the show takes place in

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Speaker 3: New York. And so it's strange to be here doing

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Speaker 3: a press tour for my own show. And I see

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Speaker 3: the ghosts of my youth and how broke I was

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Speaker 3: and how hard it was for me in New York

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Speaker 3: and just grinding trying to make a dream happen, and

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Speaker 3: so it's very surreal. It's very surreal to be back,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I'm just trying to be present and process

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Speaker 3: it all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, to stay grounded in the moment, because it's like,

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Speaker 1: you work so long for this thing and now it's here,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to miss it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't want my predisposition to be anxious

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Speaker 3: to take me away from being in the moment. But

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Speaker 3: it's big and it's so funny too. It's just all

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Speaker 3: of these firsts are happening at the same time, and

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Speaker 3: daytime talk shows and interviews and seeing my face on

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Speaker 3: a billboard in Times Square, and I just don't even

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Speaker 3: have time to relish the moments because the next big

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Speaker 3: thing is happening. But I have a great team and

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Speaker 3: I feel really, you know, supported by them, which has

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Speaker 3: been wonderful.

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Speaker 1: And would you say that your team is really the

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Speaker 1: key to taking care of your mental health right now

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Speaker 1: as you're embracing all these first Oh, yeah.

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Speaker 2: My team is very crucial.

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Speaker 3: But I have been in therapy for twenty plus years

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Speaker 3: and in conjunction with my psychiatrists and my neuropsychologists, like

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Speaker 3: I have my brain on lock, I got my team

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Speaker 3: on lock. We're all working together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the team is all coming together to support you

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Speaker 1: through all of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that some very brave stuff ended up

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Speaker 1: on the page. I'm wondering if you had to advocate

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Speaker 1: for any pieces of the show to stay in the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quite a bit.

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Speaker 3: Actually being a plus sized black woman in Hollywood, there

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Speaker 3: are a lot of preconceived notions about what I can

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Speaker 3: do and what I can say, and there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of expectations about my career choices, especially after Insecure,

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Speaker 3: because they're like, she's funny, and that's the tiny box

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Speaker 3: they wanted to put me in, and I wanted to

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Speaker 3: write something that felt more real to my everyday life,

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Speaker 3: that felt like me and life is much more nuanced

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Speaker 3: than just being a genre. It's everything. Some days you

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Speaker 3: wake up and it's a rom com, by lunch, it's

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Speaker 3: a horror story, and by the evening it's a period piece.

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Speaker 2: So I think that being.

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Speaker 3: Able to play with all the beautiful colors of the

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Speaker 3: human emotional spectrum was important to me, And at times

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Speaker 3: there was pushback because I think so much of the

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Speaker 3: industry and executives way of thinking is binary.

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Speaker 2: It's just like comedy or drama.

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Speaker 3: And for me, the roles that I'm drawn to the

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Speaker 3: way that I write, direct produce. I like that gravity

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Speaker 3: and levity exist together because that's life. And so I

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Speaker 3: definitely fought the good fight, and I'm proud of what

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Speaker 3: made the page and what made ultimately the print cut

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Speaker 3: of the series. But yeah, it was interesting sort of

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Speaker 3: those snags that happened along the way that really called

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Speaker 3: me to action.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that so much of the

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Speaker 1: industry wants plus sized women to be in this one box,

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Speaker 1: because I did think it was significant for it to

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Speaker 1: be a plus size star dealing with the idea of

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Speaker 1: like desire in romance, because you don't often see that

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Speaker 1: as like a storyline. Can you tell me more about

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Speaker 1: like the significance of that.

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Speaker 2: Oh it was huge. I mean, well, one, I love

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Speaker 2: rom coms.

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Speaker 3: I love rom com and the way we use the

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Speaker 3: rom com tropes in the show. We use it as

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Speaker 3: sort of like a trojan horse to talk about deeper things.

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Speaker 3: But I also wanted my approach to that trojan horse

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Speaker 3: to be sort of a gift to past me who

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Speaker 3: didn't get to see someone my size having to choose

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Speaker 3: between two.

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Speaker 2: Fine ass men, you know what I mean. So it

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Speaker 2: was a real.

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Speaker 3: Cool experience to give that gift to myself in the

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Speaker 3: moment and on the page.

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Speaker 2: And I think what we do really well.

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Speaker 3: And it's also one of the principles of Big Hattie Productions,

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Speaker 3: my production company, is we do not have our characters

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Speaker 3: humanity start on page five or six before the title

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Speaker 3: page of the script. Whatever makes our protagonists othered. We

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Speaker 3: don't use page real estate to justify or explain any

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Speaker 3: of that. So it was really important for me to

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Speaker 3: let the fact that I am black and plus size

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Speaker 3: not be a plot point because they're just true. And

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Speaker 3: that's also why I use the word fat in the description.

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Speaker 3: I was sending it out and the log line that

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Speaker 3: went to all of the press was a fat black

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Speaker 3: JFK employee was like the beginning of.

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Speaker 2: The log line.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember getting a note back from the

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Speaker 3: studio and they're like, fat are you? Are you sure

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Speaker 3: you want to say this? And I was just like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's not pejorative.

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Speaker 2: I own that word. I'm a beautiful fat woman.

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Speaker 3: And so even in the process of getting people on

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Speaker 3: board to that idea was met with a little bit

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Speaker 3: of perplex like, how dare I be proud of this fact?

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Speaker 3: So it was definitely a lifelong dream to be able

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Speaker 3: to create a show that I would have loved to

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Speaker 3: have seen when I was coming up.

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Speaker 1: Some of the themes that I think are so beautifully

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Speaker 1: explored in How to Dialone or self sabotaged, loneliness, desirability,

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Speaker 1: and feeling kind of behind in life. What would you

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Speaker 1: say was the most challenging aspect of portraying some of

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Speaker 1: these themes.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I was revisiting a pretty unhealed version

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Speaker 3: of myself, and it was very interesting to be revisiting

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Speaker 3: those themes from the vantage point of having learned some

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Speaker 3: things about myself. So I think for me, diving into

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Speaker 3: those emotions and going back to the place where I

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Speaker 3: felt unseen and I had a bit of arrested development,

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Speaker 3: and to go back to those places where feeling out

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Speaker 3: of place and being unsure. It was interesting to go

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Speaker 3: back to those moms and it's like kicking the tires

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Speaker 3: on my therapeutic experience, being like, okay, grown and learn,

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Speaker 3: but let's go back and make sure that we still

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Speaker 3: feel like those lessons are solid. And it was really

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Speaker 3: interesting too, because in the writer's room we talk about

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Speaker 3: the character and get deep into the psychology of how

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Speaker 3: the characters think and move, and because the protagonist is

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Speaker 3: so much like me, I have a deep connection and

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Speaker 3: it's a then DIAGRAMA. It's not a full two circles

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Speaker 3: on top of each other. There's a little overlap. But

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Speaker 3: in the writer's room, they would talk about Mel and

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Speaker 3: her problems and I would get defensive because they'd be like,

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Speaker 3: why would Mel be doing that?

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Speaker 2: I was like, y'all need to give her a break.

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Speaker 2: She's doing her best.

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Speaker 3: So those are some funny moments of just like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe I need to talk to my therapists or work

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Speaker 3: a little bit longer on that theme or this or that.

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Speaker 2: Because when it would come up in that way, I'd

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Speaker 2: be triggered.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because you are very much in the process, right,

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Speaker 1: and so they're talking about you, but not really because

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Speaker 1: it's the character.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, It's just like they're using a euphemism named

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Speaker 3: mal and I'm like, all right, guys, you're right right.

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Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break So one of

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Speaker 1: the storylines that I really appreciated among many was there

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a friendship breakup, a tension with

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Speaker 1: the best friend that was really beautifully I thought, explored,

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Speaker 1: Can you talk to me about the importance of including

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Speaker 1: something like that, because I think friendship breakups are not

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Speaker 1: something we typically see a lot in media.

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Speaker 2: No, it was very important to me.

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Speaker 3: I think when I had my first major friendship breakup,

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Speaker 3: I was wholly unprepared for.

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Speaker 2: It, and it hurt more than some romantic breakups. You know,

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Speaker 2: they go deep, and I think for me, as much

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Speaker 2: as the time.

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Speaker 3: Was difficult for me, it was so necessary and I

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Speaker 3: wanted to show that when you were growing, if your

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Speaker 3: friends aren't growing in that same direction, or if they're

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Speaker 3: resistant to your growth, that you have to audit who's

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Speaker 3: in your corner and see if they still deserve an

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Speaker 3: invitation to that party. And so when mel has this

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Speaker 3: sort of awakening that she hasn't really been living, she

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Speaker 3: begins to see some toxicity between her and Rory played

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Speaker 3: by the amazing Conrad Rick Amora. But she begins to

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Speaker 3: see that he benefited from her unhealed version of herself,

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Speaker 3: and so I thought it was so crucial to explore

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Speaker 3: that because it's just real.

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Speaker 2: It's just real.

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Speaker 1: So in the first episode, one of the characters says,

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Speaker 1: we work at the airport, we're invisible. Was it purposeful

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Speaker 1: to make the decision to have the airport be the

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Speaker 1: backdrop or did you toy with like other places being

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Speaker 1: the backdrop of the show?

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Speaker 2: No, it was always the airport.

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Speaker 3: I travel a lot, and also as an actor and

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Speaker 3: as a creator, I'm a voyeur because I have to

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Speaker 3: study human behavior, and so I love to people want

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Speaker 3: and love to sort of observe, and so airports are

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Speaker 3: amazing for that because there's such an interesting cross section

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Speaker 3: of life.

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Speaker 2: Travel is the great equalizer.

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Speaker 3: When you're on the train in New York or if

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Speaker 3: you're in the airport, you see all walks of life,

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Speaker 3: all having to go through security, all having to do

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Speaker 3: the same thing, and I thought it was important too,

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Speaker 3: because she's afraid to fly, to have her work in

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Speaker 3: an environment that is an adjutant to that latent desire

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Speaker 3: for her to take off, And so it was really

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Speaker 3: cool to explore. And we have really great writers' assistance

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Speaker 3: that looked up all the details about JFK and airport

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Speaker 3: so we could do it accurately.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it was always the airport.

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Speaker 3: M M.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like it's also like this very interesting parallel.

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Speaker 1: There's this idea in psychology that talks about like a

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Speaker 1: failure to launch right, which feels like it is also

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Speaker 1: like a great parallel to being in an airport as

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Speaker 1: the bag job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: And one of the lines in the show that particularly

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Speaker 3: resonated and was definitely a result of trying to learn

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Speaker 3: a little bit more about airports. They talk about how

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Speaker 3: flight happens, and it's lift, thrust, weight and drag, and

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Speaker 3: so in order to take off, you have the lift

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Speaker 3: the thrust, but there's a weight, and so almost considering

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Speaker 3: the fact that when you go through bad times and turmoils,

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Speaker 3: that drag is also what helps you take off because

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Speaker 3: it's in opposition to those other forces, and so it

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Speaker 3: just felt like a beautiful metaphor to anchor the show.

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Speaker 1: So in the beginning of each episode we see interviews

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Speaker 1: with are they real people or worth these actors?

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Speaker 2: They're one hundred percent real?

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Speaker 1: They were real.

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Speaker 2: I thought, so, yeah, this New York, real New York.

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Speaker 1: So what inspired you to like make the decision to

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Speaker 1: include that as the beginning of each episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a.

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Speaker 3: Couple of things. One, I love documentary. It's probably the

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Speaker 3: thing I consume most in television. And it's because when

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Speaker 3: you know, oh, someone, if they're doing a direct to

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Speaker 3: camera is a real person, you lean in because it

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Speaker 3: takes down that little last bit of artifice, even if

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Speaker 3: it's the best actor in the world, if it's Meryl Street.

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Speaker 3: If you know it's a real person, you give a

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Speaker 3: little bit more weight to what they're saying, and it

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Speaker 3: sort of provokes connection. And also interviewing so many New

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Speaker 3: Yorkers street side, it just gave context for the protagonist

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Speaker 3: of mel because she's one of millions and this is

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Speaker 3: just one story, and so I wanted to juxtapose the

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Speaker 3: intimacy of having those people on the street bring us

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Speaker 3: into the world, but also suggest every person has a

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Speaker 3: story and this is just one of many, and I

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Speaker 3: would be not telling the whole truth if I didn't

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Speaker 3: say I wasn't inspired by when Harry met Sally and

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Speaker 3: those were actors. I found that out way too late,

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Speaker 3: But at the time when I fell in love with

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Speaker 3: Nora Ephron in the movie, I just knew they were

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Speaker 3: real and it made me love it so much more

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Speaker 3: because I was like, Oh, these are real stories of love.

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Speaker 3: This is real stories of growth, like a real story

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Speaker 3: of perseverance, and so it was really cool to use

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Speaker 3: that device to frame the show.

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Speaker 1: So you already mentioned Rory as one of the colorful

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Speaker 1: personalities that we also see staring alongside you in How

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Speaker 1: To Die Alone. I'm wondering if any of the characters

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Speaker 1: are inspired by actual people in your life, and if so,

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Speaker 1: then how have you navigated like having these people show

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Speaker 1: up on the big screen.

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Speaker 3: Legally, I have to say no, But in truth, I

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Speaker 3: think so much of the writing process you're inspired by

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Speaker 3: not just people, but encounters and patterns in people, and

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Speaker 3: so a lot of the characters on the show are

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Speaker 3: sort of an amalgamation of interactions that I've had that

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Speaker 3: are real. But in conjunction with the words and the

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Speaker 3: location aren't ripping off or anything like that, but it

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Speaker 3: was important to me to sort of ground it in experience.

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Speaker 3: I feel like one of the best quotes is write

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Speaker 3: what you know, and so wanting to revisit conversation that

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Speaker 3: I had, and qualities of people in my life that

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Speaker 3: I found interesting. They all made their way into the show,

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Speaker 3: but not in one specific person got it.

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Speaker 1: Got it so so much of what makes the show

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Speaker 1: so enjoyable is the humor. I think that just came

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Speaker 1: through so beautifully. Is there any particular joke that you

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Speaker 1: remember that feels like, Oh, this is the one that

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Speaker 1: I really hope sticks with people.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there really are a lot. I will say. One

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Speaker 3: of the actors, C. P. Powell, who's a stand up

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Speaker 3: and he's also a writer in the writer's room, is

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Speaker 3: so deeply funny.

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Speaker 2: And so when we were on set, obviously we get

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Speaker 2: all of the shots as.

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Speaker 3: Written in what scripted, but I love improv. That's where

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Speaker 3: I cut my teeth. It's what I love to do,

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Speaker 3: and so I would always give actors an opportunity to play.

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Speaker 3: We got that shot, let's just do a couple for play,

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Speaker 3: And he would in between a camera turn around, I'd

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Speaker 3: see him writing down a joker too, and he made

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Speaker 3: one that made the show whereas he's talking to the

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Speaker 3: character of Terrence, who's basically the Sam to my Diane,

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Speaker 3: the Gym to my Pam, and he's trying to hint

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Speaker 3: at the fact that he might have feelings for me,

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Speaker 3: and he says she's Lizzo and Rihanna Lasagnya, and it's like.

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Speaker 2: The rhythm of the delivery the way he says it.

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Speaker 2: It killed me.

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Speaker 3: And it was one of those things where I wasn't

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Speaker 3: in the scene, so I didn't get to see the

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Speaker 3: take until I was looking at dailies and I just

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Speaker 3: could not stop laughing. But yeah, there's so many moments

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Speaker 3: like that in the show, but that's definitely a highlight

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Speaker 3: for me.

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Speaker 1: M m, Yeah, that's definitely a good one. So what

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Speaker 1: do you hold viewers, especially Black women viewers take away

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Speaker 1: from watching How to Die Alone?

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Speaker 3: I hope black women when they see the show, they

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Speaker 3: can see a little bit of themselves. And the thing

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Speaker 3: about the show is I didn't want to write something

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Speaker 3: that was a before and after picture where you don't

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Speaker 3: get to see process. And I think as much as

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Speaker 3: my perfectionistic tendencies. Would love a degree from therapy. You

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Speaker 3: don't graduate from it, right, It's a process. I learned

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Speaker 3: the same shit over and over and again. I learn

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Speaker 3: better each time, but they are things that reoccurrent. The

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Speaker 3: healing journey for me has been messy and definitely not linear,

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Speaker 3: and I wanted to write a show that spoke to

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Speaker 3: that and not only spoke to it, but honored it.

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Speaker 3: I think I didn't have grace with myself and my

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Speaker 3: process for a long time. I'll refer you back to

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Speaker 3: my perfectionistic tendencies. And so I struggled because I would

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Speaker 3: make the same mistakes or find myself in the same situation.

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Speaker 3: And to put a show out there that's about the

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Speaker 3: process and celebrating the fact that we talk about the

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Speaker 3: process being like a room but vacuum cleaner. This is

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Speaker 3: what we say in the writer's room. And the idea

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Speaker 3: is that when you turn on a room B vacuum

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Speaker 3: cleaner and it starts to clean, it hits every wall

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Speaker 3: in the room, and the wall isn't an impediment. It's information,

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Speaker 3: and it takes that information and continues to clean, and

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Speaker 3: it learns as it goes. But every time it hits

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Speaker 3: a wall, it keeps going, And so we wanted to

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Speaker 3: use that idea in psychology with the show.

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Speaker 2: And my hope is that when audience sees the character

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Speaker 2: of mel as this human rumba who's trying to clean

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Speaker 2: up her life, who's making mistakes, sometimes the same ones

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Speaker 2: more than once, that they have an understanding that that's

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Speaker 2: the way the process is, and in turn have grace

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Speaker 2: with themselves.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I hope the show sparks conversation because

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Speaker 3: one of the antidotes for me in terms of my

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Speaker 3: cure for loneliness is vulnerability and connection.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for me, and so I think audiences will

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Speaker 3: have conversations about the show and as a result, connect

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Speaker 3: with each other and be like, yeah, that's me too.

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Speaker 3: And so yeah, that's the long winded way of saying

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Speaker 3: those are my hopes for the show.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what do you feel like you learned about

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Speaker 1: Natasha through writing and storing as Melissa?

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Speaker 2: That I could fill a book.

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Speaker 3: It could fill a book, I mean, real talk, there's

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00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 3: something quite tender about stepping out of a supporting role

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Speaker 3: and into a lead role. And I don't have main

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00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 3: character energy in real life and am adjusting to the

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Speaker 3: spotlight in a way that is, you know, triggering some

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Speaker 3: of the shit that I work on in terms of worthiness.

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Speaker 2: And again perfecsionism.

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Speaker 3: And not really wanting to let myself down in that way.

444
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: And so it's definitely brought up some stuff that is

445
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: worth addressing and processing and working through. But I'm so grateful.

446
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 3: I had no idea this was in the cards for

447
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: me at all. I just knew I loved creating, I

448
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 3: loved writing, I loved acting.

449
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 2: I love it all.

450
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: And my hope was just to be able to make

451
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: rent and create and tell stories. And so to be

452
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: in this position it's a dream come true, like mega

453
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 3: mega dream come true. And so it's also required me

454
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: to dream bigger because now that this has been accomplished, it's.

455
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 2: Almost like the dust is settling.

456
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, I did the thing, so like you know,

457
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 3: it's okay now what you know? And so there's these

458
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 3: little mini existential crises that have emerged as a result

459
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 3: of working on this show and.

460
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 2: Having this success. But yeah, it's been enlightening. It's been enlightening.

461
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, yeah, I was

462
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: really surprised. So I released my first book last year

463
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: and was very I think thrown off by how much

464
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 1: therapy then became supporting me, like letting this thing out

465
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: into the world and all this perfectionistic stuff and like

466
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: impossible syndrome stuff that I didn't really.

467
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 2: Know I struggled with.

468
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: I was very surprised, like therapy became full time like

469
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: about supporting me through that process. And I hear you

470
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: talking about that similarly.

471
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I mean, I don't know if you

472
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: felt this.

473
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 3: It's just like the feeling worthy of this moment, and

474
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: then also not wanting to let people down, and that

475
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: obligation was amplified of just oh, people are going to

476
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 3: have these expectations about what it is or what it's

477
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 3: going to be. And so many people that have rallied

478
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 3: around me to execute this supported me because they believed

479
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: in me. So I don't want to let them down,

480
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: and then I don't want to let myself down. I

481
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: don't want to let you know. So it's definitely brought

482
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: up all of that stuff, and I'm just so grateful

483
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 3: for my therapist.

484
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: Truly.

485
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 3: I talk about therapy literally, I'm on this press story,

486
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 3: I talk about it every day because it's just real,

487
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: it's in my experience. I'm just like, listen, this is

488
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 3: the truth of this show. And she's been so instrumental

489
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: in holding me down because I'm experiencing a lot of

490
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 3: new things, all at once and in different ways. And

491
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 3: it's ironic because all my character wants on the show,

492
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 3: and all I've ever wanted was to feel seen and

493
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 3: to be known and to.

494
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: Put this show out there.

495
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 3: I'm being seen and known and it's fucking scary and

496
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: wanting to show up authentically and be committed to that.

497
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: And it's a very raw, vulnerable thing.

498
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: So wanting something and being terrified of it at the

499
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 3: same time, it's been walking in a very very tight rope.

500
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: And so I'm just grateful for the.

501
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: Mental health care professionals in my life holding me down

502
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: through this.

503
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: Is there anything that's been surprising about people's reaction to

504
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: the show? So, I know you had us screening recently

505
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: in New York and probably other places. Is there anything

506
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: that's been surprising to you about people's reactions.

507
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I was bawling like I was a

508
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 3: mass and it's not surprising. I think it's just an

509
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 3: overwhelm of feeling that much love and wanting to receive

510
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 3: it and not resist it, and so much of what

511
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: I do in this job you can't control outcome. You

512
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: can only hope you can put out something that's excellent,

513
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 3: and if the breeze is blowing one way, you might

514
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: get horrible review or what have you. And so I

515
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 3: think it's been a really interesting process of trying to

516
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: divorce myself from the outcome, and at the same time

517
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: I have those wants of wanting to impress and wanting

518
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: to make sure people are entertained and people are getting

519
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: a good return on investment on this project. So I

520
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: think it's been an interesting process to sort of reconcile

521
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: all of that and surprising process just trying to want

522
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 3: the approval but not need it.

523
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: And so it's like it's a weird thing, and they're

524
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: in life.

525
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 3: The reason I get so overwhelmed at these events because

526
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 3: it's just everything I could have ever wanted in terms

527
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 3: of response, and the cry is the relief. And so

528
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 3: I've been surprised about how emotional I've been publicly.

529
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: I'm just like, you know, bitch, don't cry like you know.

530
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 3: So I'm so moved and touched by that love and

531
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 3: support from the community, from you, from everyone. I'm trying

532
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: to get comfortable in it and not wiggle too much.

533
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So you left us with quite the cliffhanger

534
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: in season one. So I wonder if you can say

535
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: a little bit about where you might see Melissa going

536
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: in a season two of How to Die Alone.

537
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 3: Yes, Lord willin in the creek don't rise. We will

538
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 3: hopefully get a season two. We don't find out for

539
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 3: a while now. But for me, I really am excited

540
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 3: to continue explore Mel's relationship with herself. If you recall

541
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 3: in the finale, she takes a really big swing and

542
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 3: bets on herself in a way that I hope audiences

543
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: are excited about, because it's sure as hell excited me

544
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: to see someone have a rom com trope of this

545
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 3: big romantic kind of trip, but it was for her,

546
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 3: and so I want to dive deeper in that, and

547
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 3: I'm really excited to continue to explore her new friendships.

548
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 3: And I think growing your circle with people who understand

549
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: where you're headed and are on board with your growth

550
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 3: and change is so important and so friendship. Like I

551
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: said earlier, in terms of her relationship with Rory, We

552
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: don't know if that's beyond repair, and so we'll explore

553
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: where we end up. But yeah, I would say the

554
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: love story of Mel with herself and her friendships would

555
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: definitely be a priority for me.

556
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: We definitely will be staying tuned to see how that continues.

557
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: So I wonder if you have any words of encouragement

558
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: or affirmations that maybe have been helpful for you for

559
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: other people who may be trying to embrace that main

560
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: thing here to energy in their own lives.

561
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: Ooh, what advice would I give?

562
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 3: I think so much of wanting to be seen and

563
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: wanting to belong is provoked by wanting that external validation,

564
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: and what I am learning I ening learning always is

565
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: to give that validation to.

566
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: Myself and let that be enough.

567
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: A lot of the work that I've done in my

568
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: life in therapy is centered around worthiness and enoughness, and

569
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: it has been a real struggle to not just say it,

570
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: but feel it and know it in my deep down.

571
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 3: And my advice to those struggling with main character energy

572
00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 3: and imposter syndrome and wanting to feel seen and belong

573
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: is to turn inward and give what you're wanting to

574
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: yourself because you have that agency, you have that power.

575
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: And it took me a long time to realize that

576
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: even giving myself that validation and giving myself that love,

577
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: even saying the word I'm proud. I struggled with that

578
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 3: for years. Just to say I'm proud of this work

579
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: that I've done, and to hear myself say it on

580
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: the Today's Show this morning or whatever I'm doing for

581
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 3: the show, it almost catches me off guard because I

582
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: mean it. I fucking mean that shit. I'm proud of

583
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 3: myself and it's such a game changer to own that

584
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 3: power and take back that power. And it's not to

585
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: say that hearing it from the outside is wonderful, but

586
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: it's no longer the thing that I'm waiting for. It's

587
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 3: great when it happens, and if it doesn't, it doesn't.

588
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: And I really.

589
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 3: Try not to allow the external validation and the external

590
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: need to take away from what I know to be true.

591
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: And so I hope your listeners and watchers will give

592
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: to themselves what they're seeking and chip away at it

593
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: a little bit every day. Like I said, I've been

594
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: in therapy for twenty plus years and the issues stay

595
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: the same, but they present themselves in a myriad of way,

596
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: so I try to stay on my toes in terms

597
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: of that.

598
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, I give to yourself what you're wanting from someone.

599
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: Else, beautiful words of encouragement. Thank you so much for that, Natasha.

600
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: So let us know where we can stay connected with you.

601
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: Where can we watch the show? Where can we keep

602
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: up with what's happening next?

603
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: Of course, How to Die Alone a premiere September thirteenth

604
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: on Hulu, and I'm excited for folks to watch. We'll

605
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: drop four episodes the thirteenth, We'll drop two more episodes

606
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: after that, and then the final two will be in

607
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: the third weekend. And folks can find me on Instagram

608
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: at Natasha Rothwell and the same handle for Twitter and for.

609
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: TikTok beautiful Well. We will be sure to include all

610
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: of that in our show notes so that people can

611
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: tune in. Thank you so much for spending some time

612
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: with me today. I really appreciate it.

613
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: Of course, thank you so much. You're just so wonderful

614
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: to talk to. You're like, I know you're on the Jarvist.

615
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, I could talk to you all day.

616
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm so glad Natasha was able to join

617
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: us for this conversation. To learn more about her and

618
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: the new show, be sure to visit our show notes

619
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash how to Die

620
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: Alone and don't forget to text this episode to two

621
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: of your girls right now and tell them to check

622
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: it out. If you're looking for a therapist in your area,

623
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: visit our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

624
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: slash directory. And if you want to continue digging into

625
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: this topic or just be in community with other sisters,

626
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: come on over and join us in the Sister Circle.

627
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for

628
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy

629
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Elise

630
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: Ellis and Xyria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford.

631
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with our regular episode, but

632
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: until then, take good care

633
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: What