1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a Lomshell arrest in the

2
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 1: D four VD aka David Anthony Burke case as a

3
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: witness refuses to rat out David Burke as a record

4
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,159
Speaker 1: executive is grilled by a grand jury. Imancy Grace, this

5
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being

6
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: with us. David is finally being viewed as a suspect

7
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,800
Speaker 1: of teen girls Celestes death. You're gonna have to have

8
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 1: somebody rapped. How can she be missing all this time?

9
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,400
Speaker 1: Even possibly dead since the spring?

10
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 2: An arrest is eminent in the dfour VD case.

11
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,920
Speaker 1: As a witness is refusing to testify in front of

12
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 1: a grand jury.

13
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 2: What does that mean now?

14
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: Unlike a defendant who cannot be forced to testify, a

15
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: witness can be put in jail if they refuse to testify.

16
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of

17
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,759
Speaker 1: what we are learning tonight, straight out to Alexis Tereschuk,

18
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter.

19
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 2: Alexis, this is what I know.

20
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: I know it's a state's witness, which means it's a

21
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: witness that will testify against David Anthony Burke aka D

22
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,160
Speaker 1: four VD. It's a female witness against Burke who is

23
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 1: refusing to.

24
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,959
Speaker 2: Testify, and she has lawyered up.

25
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 1: She's got the same lawyer as the record exec that

26
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: just got a let's see technical legal term in front

27
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,840
Speaker 1: of the grand jury. Just wait, guys until you hear

28
00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:46,479
Speaker 1: what he said. That said, she's lawyered up female testifying

29
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 1: against a four VD, refusing to come in, and she's

30
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: about to end up in the can into pokey for

31
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:54,840
Speaker 1: her recalcitrants.

32
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 3: What do you know, Well, you're exactly right. So there

33
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 3: has been a grand j has been called in Los

34
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,480
Speaker 3: Angeles County and Robert Morgan Roth, who is an executive

35
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,640
Speaker 3: who's in charge of David's record label, he testified in

36
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,720
Speaker 3: front of the grand jury and he was heard in

37
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,000
Speaker 3: the hallway outside the grand jury room talking to his

38
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 3: attorneys saying, I didn't even feel like I needed to

39
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 3: be calling the police after she was found dead because

40
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,799
Speaker 3: we were on tour. I didn't want to jeopardize the tour.

41
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,640
Speaker 3: But within that same situation, the district attorney, the deputy

42
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 3: district attorney, she's very angry.

43
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:32,679
Speaker 2: She says to him.

44
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 3: I to his attorney, I need this woman to come in.

45
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 3: She needs to be here. And you know what I'm

46
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 3: about to issue away.

47
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:41,360
Speaker 2: Stop right there.

48
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 1: I asked you about the witness getting arrested. You went

49
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,840
Speaker 1: to the record executive and that's not it's the gist

50
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:52,720
Speaker 1: of what he said.

51
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:53,959
Speaker 2: But I want to stay.

52
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: And we know this because he went out in the hallway.

53
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 1: I mean, this is going to make our attorney joining

54
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 1: us today, Philipdbay do a backflip. You got a witness

55
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: debate and they're in a secret grand jury proceeding. Then

56
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,400
Speaker 1: they come out in the hall and unload and everybody

57
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 1: is standing around hearing what they said.

58
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 2: That nothing secret about that.

59
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,519
Speaker 1: So the record exec he goes out in the hall

60
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,160
Speaker 1: after getting a by.

61
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 2: The prosecutor in front of the grand jury, and he says, quote, I.

62
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 1: Said, I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to

63
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: call police.

64
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 2: I just wanted to get on with the tour.

65
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 1: So forget about the dismembered little girl in your client's tesla.

66
00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: Forget about that. Let's just quote get on with the tour.

67
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 1: Thoughts of Dobay.

68
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 4: Well, First of all, in the state of California, independent

69
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 4: of mandated reporters, if you have observed either a murder,

70
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 4: a rape, or a loot act on a minor. You

71
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 4: are duty bound under California law to notify the police.

72
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 4: If you do not, it is a criminal act and

73
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,360
Speaker 4: it's one fifty two point three of our Penal Code.

74
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 4: The problem is is that it's only a six month

75
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 4: misdemeanor for a recalcitrant witness not to come forward or

76
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 4: to notify police. So there's really no teeth in the

77
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,279
Speaker 4: law now. Having said that, anybody who doesn't want.

78
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,560
Speaker 2: To put them on baking.

79
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,840
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, look around you, look around you. Are

80
00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,080
Speaker 1: you at your office or your luxury home?

81
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,240
Speaker 2: Where are you right now?

82
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 4: I'm in a studio.

83
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 1: Okay, do you want to set Do you want to

84
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,480
Speaker 1: trade off your fancy office which I've heard all about,

85
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,560
Speaker 1: or your very sophisticated pad and go sit in the

86
00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 1: pokey for six months? It may mean nothing to you,

87
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,360
Speaker 1: but I doubt a record executive or anybody else wants

88
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: to go sit on a metal bench for the next

89
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,600
Speaker 1: six months.

90
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 2: So that's what a contempt charge will get you.

91
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't understand why at a minimum they

92
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 4: just don't take the fifth. If you don't want to

93
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 4: answer questions or you think you're going to be incriminated him.

94
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,360
Speaker 1: What are you saying the witness is not taking the fifth.

95
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:29,839
Speaker 2: People that are.

96
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 1: Going to be charged or have criminal culpability, they're the

97
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 1: only ones that can take the fifth. The Fifth Amendment,

98
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: the right to remain silent guaranteed under our constitution.

99
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 2: A witness, unless they're going to land.

100
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,840
Speaker 1: In jail criminally charged themselves, cannot take the fifth Amendment.

101
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,839
Speaker 2: I get it, But did you look around? Do you

102
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,720
Speaker 2: think any of us just fell off the turnip truck.

103
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,320
Speaker 2: Let's show him who's on the panel.

104
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 1: Phillip do Bate offices with US, high profile lawyer out

105
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 1: of LA this jurisdiction, doctor Bethe Marshall joining us. Renown

106
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of LA. Rob Dick, private investigator, doctor Kimball,

107
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 1: Crown's chief medical Examiner Terrance County, Alexis Tereschuk. She's probably

108
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: covered more cases than meaning lawyers have ever tried. And

109
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 1: Dave Mack who is joining us remote. We all know

110
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 1: that only a defendant can take the fifth. So the

111
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: witness absolutely can be thrown in jail. And I gotta

112
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 1: tell you I've done it myself, except it was a victim.

113
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 2: Now, this is what happened.

114
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,359
Speaker 1: It was a little girl victim who was afraid to

115
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 1: testify in a sex trafficking case, and she disappeared the

116
00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:44,640
Speaker 1: night before trial.

117
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: I was up the entire night. Five a m.

118
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,159
Speaker 1: My investigator, Ernest found her and I said, arrest her.

119
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,520
Speaker 1: We did not put her in jail. We put her

120
00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 1: in a nice hotel and he stayed with her outside

121
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,680
Speaker 1: the door until the time for her time testimony.

122
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:02,359
Speaker 2: Brought her to the courthouse.

123
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 1: She testified, and then we drove her wherever she wanted

124
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: to go, but she was in our custody.

125
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,680
Speaker 2: I don't like arresting victims, but a witness, oh yeah, totally.

126
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: I would absolutely arrest a witness that wouldn't testify for

127
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:16,320
Speaker 1: the state.

128
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,640
Speaker 4: You know, when I was a new attorney and I

129
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 4: needed witnesses in, we had the capability of getting body

130
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 4: attachments for witnesses who defaulted. At one time, I had

131
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 4: to haul a priest in. The next morning, they had

132
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,160
Speaker 4: him in the lock up with the collar and the

133
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 4: whole thing, and we.

134
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 5: Went off on each other.

135
00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 4: You would have never known that that man was a

136
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 4: man of the cloth. But I needed him in and

137
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 4: I had the court issue of body attachment, and they

138
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 4: hauled him in. Now, having said that, I don't know

139
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 4: what this witness's counsel is doing out there, other than

140
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 4: maybe looking like a potted plan. But you would think

141
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 4: that that lawyer would get on the phone to that

142
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 4: witness and say, look, you're at a minimum looking down

143
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 4: the barrel of a misdemeanor for not reporting this thing.

144
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 4: At least come in. If we think you're going to

145
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 4: be incriminating yourself for failing to report, we can take

146
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 4: the fifth, but don't default on the subpoena, because if

147
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 4: you do, you're only making things worse for yourself.

148
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,280
Speaker 1: You know, the lawyer for the witness, the female witness.

149
00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, a female prison, a female

150
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 1: jail is no cakewalk.

151
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,520
Speaker 2: The big dollhouse.

152
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,120
Speaker 1: Ain't all that. You ever been in a lady's prison.

153
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: It's just as bad as a man's prison. Nobody wants

154
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 1: to go there.

155
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,800
Speaker 4: What it's a snake pit. It's a snake pit. It is.

156
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 1: So the same lawyer Dubet is representing the record executive

157
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,679
Speaker 1: who was also defour v D David Anthony Burks manager.

158
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 1: The record exec is Burke's manager, and he is the one.

159
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,679
Speaker 2: So this lawyer, Evan.

160
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: Jennie is representing both of them. I don't know if

161
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: that's the conflict of Manchester or not.

162
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 2: But that's a civil issue. But she's on the lamb.

163
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 1: She's refusing to rat the Elie. Law enforcement is looking

164
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,320
Speaker 1: for her right now. Have fun with that rancid tune

165
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,439
Speaker 1: of there'sh Sandwich for lunch lady. Also, I want to

166
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: get back to the record, exec he actually says. He

167
00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:14,480
Speaker 1: actually says, well, yeah, I knew about her body being

168
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 1: found in a client's car, but I didn't think it

169
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,839
Speaker 1: was my responsibility to call police. I just wanted to

170
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 1: get on with the tour, so forget about the little

171
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 1: girl rotting in the trunk.

172
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 2: That's basically what he said.

173
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 4: Debate, Yeah, and let me tell you, if that young lady,

174
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,080
Speaker 4: that child was under fourteen at the time, and he

175
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,880
Speaker 4: had knowledge of either a rape, a murder or a

176
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 4: loot act on that kid, that is incriminating for him

177
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,800
Speaker 4: not to report it. It actually creates a legal duty,

178
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,840
Speaker 4: as I said earlier, upon him to report it, and

179
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,240
Speaker 4: if he doesn't, he faces the pains of a six

180
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 4: month misdemeanor. Now having said that, the law requires that

181
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 4: he actually observed it, as opposed to have knowledge of it.

182
00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,840
Speaker 4: So I would absolutely defend him.

183
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,599
Speaker 1: Mind no, no, no, no, you're talking about the record exec. He

184
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 1: didn't observe anything but himself in the mirror. The person

185
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 1: that is under threat of arrest is the female. Hold

186
00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,160
Speaker 1: on just a moment, let me go to you, Dave Mac.

187
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,120
Speaker 2: Let's clarify.

188
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,839
Speaker 1: Dave Mac joining me along with the Alexis Tereschuk, Dave

189
00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 1: Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter.

190
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 2: Dave Mac.

191
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: The person that's getting arrested is the female witness.

192
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 2: And I'm betting, I'm betting that it's.

193
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,280
Speaker 1: Somebody that lives in that house that basically shacks up

194
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,079
Speaker 1: in there and knows what happened.

195
00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,040
Speaker 6: Nancy. We were given a huge clue on this a

196
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 6: couple of weeks ago when in some of our reporting

197
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,560
Speaker 6: it was that the end of the police had run

198
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 6: that search warrant inside the house and they were able

199
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 6: to determine which person in that house had been sleeping

200
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 6: in which room were. They talked about how d four

201
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 6: VD had this very tight in her circle. Well, there

202
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 6: are three or four people that were with him constantly

203
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 6: and stayed in that house with him. One of those people,

204
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,080
Speaker 6: I guarantee you is a female that they're trying to

205
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,400
Speaker 6: get in court. There was also another one another kip

206
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 6: that we had, and it goes back to when they

207
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 6: said he had help. Whoever cut up the last had help.

208
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,839
Speaker 6: It went out, remember on the long drive in the

209
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 6: middle of the night, out in the middle of nowhere,

210
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 6: had help. So we've got a couple of hints here

211
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 6: as to who it is. The scary part of it

212
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,480
Speaker 6: is that the same attorney representing his manager also represents

213
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 6: this unnamed female that they're trying to bring into court

214
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 6: to testify it in front of the grand jury.

215
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 1: Okay, why do you see that as a problem save

216
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 1: Matt one lawyer can represent two people.

217
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 6: I just it seems odd to me that you would

218
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 6: have other individuals not in the industry that would have

219
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,360
Speaker 6: the same type of attorney. The LAPED has been working

220
00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,160
Speaker 6: on a timeline of activity for Celesti and Burke, and

221
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 6: an insider with the police investigation says they've been able

222
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,560
Speaker 6: to determine that in the spring of this year, Burke

223
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 6: took a secret trip in the middle of the night

224
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 6: to a remote area of Santa Barbara County. Burke remained

225
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,479
Speaker 6: in the area for several.

226
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:21,719
Speaker 1: Hours, so it's entirely possible that the female witness was

227
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,480
Speaker 1: along on that trip. We don't know who she is,

228
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 1: but she is willing to go to jail rather than

229
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 1: testify in front of a grand jury about or against

230
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,560
Speaker 1: David Anthony Burke D four VD to doctor Bethany Marshall

231
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,800
Speaker 1: joining us renown psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, this jurisdiction,

232
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 1: author of deal Breakers. You can see her now on

233
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: Peacock and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.

234
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, what do you think about that?

235
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:50,320
Speaker 5: Nancy?

236
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 7: Has she ever been a mother, a sister, a daughter,

237
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 7: somebody who has loyalty to another woman? That this is

238
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 7: what I'm wondering about this potential witness. You know, when

239
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,400
Speaker 7: I have underage patients come into my office who report

240
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 7: some type of abuse, there's a maternal instinct that kicks

241
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 7: in where I really want to think about how to

242
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 7: protect that patient.

243
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 5: I'm a mandated reporter. I have to call the authorities

244
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 5: to let them know that something nefarious is going on.

245
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 5: And who is this fiembale witness? That she wouldn't be

246
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,080
Speaker 5: loyal to another woman? And you know, Nancy, we're talking

247
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 5: about a crime here. But to be honest with you,

248
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,680
Speaker 5: there was a lot going on leading up to this crime. Right,

249
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,040
Speaker 5: this is a young woman who's living in another man's

250
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 5: household with multiple residents and that household and you know,

251
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 5: I'm thinking about her being brainwashed, her being abused, sex assaulted,

252
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 5: all of that. Who's witnessing all of this? And why

253
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:57,559
Speaker 5: are they not coming forward?

254
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: You know what, doctor Bethany Marshall, he just says something

255
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: very important. Let me go back to you, Dave Matt

256
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter. A grand jury is usually sixteen

257
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 1: to twenty three people, depends on your jurisdiction, taken from

258
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: the voter registration logs, and they meet once or twice

259
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 1: a week, depending on the size of the jurisdiction, and

260
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,160
Speaker 1: all they determine is do we have enough evidence to

261
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 1: charge the individual.

262
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,120
Speaker 2: They're not passing on guilt or innocence.

263
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: Why is that important? It's important because a grand jury

264
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: doesn't determine guilt or innocence. All they do is determined,

265
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 1: have I had enough evidence to think this should go

266
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 1: to a jury? Is it possible that he did this crime?

267
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: That's all they're looking at, and then.

268
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 2: They do a yay or nay. That's all it is.

269
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 1: Usually a grand jury presentation lasts under ten minutes per case.

270
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,640
Speaker 1: You can bring on one witness, typically the lead detective,

271
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 1: because in grand jury hearsay is admissible. The detective can say, well,

272
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: this witness told me this, and this was told me that,

273
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 1: this is what the medical examiner said.

274
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 2: The body was in his car. He was the last

275
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 2: one with her. Bam.

276
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,520
Speaker 1: That's how it works. Then it goes to a petite

277
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: jury of twelve to decide guilter innocence.

278
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 2: So to you, Dave Matt, we know it's a woman.

279
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 1: We know it's someone that's going to testify for the state.

280
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,720
Speaker 1: There are no defense witnesses at grand jury's.

281
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 2: So here are our choices.

282
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: As doctor Bethany just pointed out, Dave Matt, it could

283
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 1: be someone that lived in that home that knows how

284
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,760
Speaker 1: Celeste was killed. It could be somebody that moved the

285
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 1: car back and forth. Remember Steve Fisher told us over

286
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,800
Speaker 1: and over and over, and he knows because he has

287
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 1: amassd the ring doorbell camp from all the neighbors, many

288
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,680
Speaker 1: of the neighbors, and he knows when the car was moved.

289
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,280
Speaker 1: He even knows who was moving at one time. Okay,

290
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 1: maybe it was a woman that moved the car for

291
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: d FORVD. Maybe it was someone, as you pointed out,

292
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 1: Dave Mac, that went on that late night trip into

293
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: the hills and stayed there for hours and hours. You know,

294
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 1: their speculation she was buried or hidding at one location

295
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 1: and then later put in the car trunk. Maybe she

296
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: was there for the trip, maybe she moved the car,

297
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: maybe she.

298
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: Lived in the house.

299
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,600
Speaker 1: But whatever she knows, Dave Mac, it's damning to David

300
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 1: Anthony Burke and she doesn't want to testify.

301
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 2: Who could she be? What does she know? Dave mac?

302
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 6: Well, I think it goes back to that very first

303
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 6: search warrant when the police were in the house. They

304
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 6: were trying to find out who lives in this house,

305
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 6: because we know it's more than just Burke. And the

306
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 6: police said they were able to identify or maybe it

307
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,480
Speaker 6: was Fisher, but they were able to identify the inside circle,

308
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 6: not the people who just travel around with Burke, but

309
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 6: we're talking about the people who shared that rendered house

310
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 6: with him, that had their own area, their own their

311
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 6: own night scent. They identified three different people. I think,

312
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 6: so you've got any one of those who was there

313
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,160
Speaker 6: on a daily basis used that house as their own

314
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,919
Speaker 6: place to live. But also I believe that person was

315
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 6: with Burke in the middle of the night as they

316
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 6: went up up north to Riverside County or San Borgino County,

317
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 6: Santa Barbara County, wherever they happen to have been out

318
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,199
Speaker 6: in the middle of nowhere. Because we were told he

319
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,159
Speaker 6: was there for several hours. We know they've got this

320
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 6: digital footprint, they've got they've got the markings for where

321
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 6: they were. And I say, hey, because we're going to

322
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 6: assume here that this person they're trying to bring in

323
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 6: front of the grand jury knows the details on what

324
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 6: took place that night. We've got him driving out, staying

325
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 6: in one spot, and driving back. There's one other individual

326
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 6: besides Burke that can tell us what happened, and that's

327
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 6: who it is. And this person, this female, does not

328
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 6: want to do it for what what ever? Reasons culpability,

329
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,920
Speaker 6: I don't know, but that's what we're up against right now.

330
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 2: Well, hold on just a second.

331
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Lessa's Terrestchuk on digital information

332
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 1: on the female witness, but to Philip Dbay if she

333
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: knows about any.

334
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 2: Of the things Dave McK and I have just identified.

335
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,680
Speaker 1: Well, did she take that late night trip out into

336
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: the woods where they stayed out there for hours and hours?

337
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: Did she move the car? Was she one of the

338
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 1: individuals that moved the car?

339
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 2: Steve Fisher I.

340
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 1: Believe has been told told by LAPD to shut his piehole,

341
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 1: and he's not going to stay on air who he

342
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,639
Speaker 1: saw moving the car, but he knows.

343
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 2: But the car was moved.

344
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: Several times, maybe not by the same person every single time.

345
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,280
Speaker 1: So why would an individual just go move the car

346
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 1: around unless they knew what was in the trunk. She

347
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 1: could have lived in the home, she could have gone

348
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 1: on that late night trip, She could.

349
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 2: Have moved the car. She could know how Celeste died.

350
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 1: Do you think she's not testifying because she thinks she's

351
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 1: going to get charged Because if she's an accomplice, they

352
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 1: could go ahead and charge her if they wanted to.

353
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 2: They would not be calling her as a witness. If

354
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 2: she is the target.

355
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 4: Well, here's the thing. Even if that were the case,

356
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 4: her counsel can demand that she be immunized. I mean,

357
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 4: that's the whole point. If you're a target, or you

358
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 4: could be a target, then you either take the fifth

359
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 4: or you see community and that's typically what the das

360
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,119
Speaker 4: do if they really want to get the kingpin, if

361
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 4: you will. But I really think what's going on here

362
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,159
Speaker 4: is that this young lady either has intel or she

363
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 4: is afraid to dime out the golden goose if you will,

364
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 4: because he is the cash count for everybody involved. If

365
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 4: he goes to prison, they don't eat. There's an old expression,

366
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 4: and that is if a concert doesn't close, I don't eat.

367
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 4: You know, it's like a real estate transaction. You don't

368
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 4: close escrow, you don't close the contract. Nobody gets paid.

369
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 4: And let me tell you he is the golden gay.

370
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 2: Can I ask you debate?

371
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: What good is that money, that golden ticket, that paycheck,

372
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 1: that grave train?

373
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 2: What's that going to do for her? Behind bars in

374
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 2: the big dollhouse.

375
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 4: I understand that a lot of these kids don't have perspective.

376
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 4: They live hand to mouth, is what it is.

377
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:16,360
Speaker 2: You're not kidding in the other twenties have three jobs

378
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 2: and prosecuting in my twenties. Stop it. So do you

379
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 2: think that's why she's not coming forward? She'd rather get arrested.

380
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: See no, no, if she were a target, she would

381
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,679
Speaker 1: not be being forced to a grand jury. Her lawyer

382
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,200
Speaker 1: who we know who it is, would have already said

383
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,040
Speaker 1: she wants community.

384
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: Or she's going to take the fifth. That's not happening.

385
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 8: The severely decomposed, dismembered remains found in a Tesla owned

386
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,879
Speaker 8: by singer songwriter David identified as Celeste Reevas, reported missing

387
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 8: more than a year ago, Lake Elson, Or, California. She

388
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 8: was identified through forensics and a cause of death has

389
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 8: not benda.

390
00:20:54,040 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 2: German Crime Stories with Nancy Grace David David Anthony.

391
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: Burke is finally being viewed as a suspect in Team.

392
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: Girl Celestes murder.

393
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: Police sources believe Celeste was killed back in.

394
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 2: The spring, her body found in his Tesla truck. What

395
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: has changed? What has happened? Will this result in murder charges.

396
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: And arrests going down in the D four VD David

397
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: Anthony Burke case. What does it mean as a grand

398
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: jury meets in secret? Earlier we were discussing digital evidence

399
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: straight out to Rob Dick joining US bounty hunter, private investigator,

400
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 1: former deputy Sheriff Sacramento County, owner of Renegade Investigations, Rob Dick,

401
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Philip Dubay Alexis Tereschuk

402
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: and Dave Mack had brought up a very interesting point.

403
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: The witness that the prosecution, a female prosecutor.

404
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 2: Is held bent on getting in front of that grand jury.

405
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: May have traveled with David Anthony Burke, may have lived

406
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: in the home with David Anthony Burke, may have moved

407
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: that tesla for him. There's any number of reasons the

408
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 1: prosecutor may need this witness, and she will get the witness,

409
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: Make no mistake about it. Even if it takes six

410
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: months for the witness to sit behind bars and stew

411
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: she will get the witness. That said, how can digital

412
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: forensics prove what this witness knows? For instance, her phone?

413
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: You think she went anywhere without her phone not happening?

414
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: If she was moving that car around, they have that triangulated.

415
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 1: If she went on that trip in the middle of

416
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: the night, you can see her phone traveling along with

417
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: David Anthony Burke's phone, or with his tesla.

418
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: You know it's a tesla.

419
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: It's got all sorts of navigation data embedded, right. How

420
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:10,880
Speaker 1: can digital forensics nail this witness?

421
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 9: Yes, I mean there's going to be a complete outline.

422
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 9: They'll be able to figure out exactly where every party

423
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 9: that was involved, when how long they were there. They're

424
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 9: going to be able to track them and completely show

425
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 9: who was involved.

426
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 4: You know.

427
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 9: And one other last thing that I don't think we're

428
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 9: bringing up. You know, she may have seen exactly what

429
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 9: happened and is afraid that could happen to her.

430
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: That is certainly a possibility following up on what private investigator.

431
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: Rob Dick just told us. Joining us now is a

432
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: digital forensics expert, Scott Iiker. Listen to this.

433
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: He is a founding member of the FBI Cellular Analysis

434
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: Survey Team.

435
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: How does it work, Scott?

436
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 10: There's so much digital evidence that we could pull up

437
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 10: from computers, we can pull up from cars, pull up

438
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 10: from phones, we can pull up from iPads, anything, watches,

439
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 10: you know, ankle bracelets, anything. So as you get all

440
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 10: that data and preserve it with the phone company and

441
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 10: then pull it into a massive timeline locating the car,

442
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 10: the individual, you can put those things together with this female,

443
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 10: with the victim, with the car at the house. You

444
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 10: can build that story and that visual for the jury

445
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 10: and grand jury to see, yes, these were there, these

446
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 10: people were there and these people were not.

447
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: But how does the triangulation process work. Can it be

448
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: attacked on cross examination? Although, of course, Scott, as you know,

449
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: in a grand jury proceeding, there is no defense attorney.

450
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 2: This is not a guilt innocence phase. This is just

451
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 2: putting evidence to.

452
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: A grand jury to determine is there enough for an

453
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: actual indictment. So the witness is not going to be

454
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: cross EXAs But how can triangulation be attacked by the

455
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: defense Because I believe from day one LAPD Please tell

456
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: me this is true. LAPD has been amassing cell phone,

457
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: a NAV system, all sorts of digital forensics to prove

458
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: this case. And that means they have to find the witnesses.

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: How are they going to do it? Find out who

460
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: was in the home? What about a data dump? What

461
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: about a stingray that could show me whose cell phones

462
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: were in that home at the time we believed so,

463
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: let's Revus was killed.

464
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: How would that work? Scott?

465
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 10: Let's detect this each different way triangulation And now, okay,

466
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 10: your thinking first is that you can get a specific

467
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 10: point on the earth. Well, it depends on what kind

468
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 10: of data is are you getting from the phone company

469
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 10: or from a vehicle or whatever. Sometimes it's GPS that

470
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 10: needs at least three satellites to be able to give

471
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 10: you a good point on the Earth. You have distance

472
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 10: from tower measurements from cellular towers that can be very

473
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 10: accurate if you have multiple towers giving you that data information.

474
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 10: And then sometimes depending on how late you're getting the data,

475
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 10: you're just getting at what tower the phone used or

476
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 10: the car used or something like that, not how far

477
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 10: from the tower. So it really just depends what data

478
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 10: they got at that time, because you don't remember they

479
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 10: were working a couple of weeks behind when the victim's

480
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 10: body was found. Now you had mentioned the steam ray.

481
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 10: Now the steam ray is actually just a device to

482
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 10: locate where phones are now, not where they were a

483
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 10: month ago, six months ago.

484
00:26:58,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to be able to use this

485
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: ray to get all of the cell phones that were

486
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: being used in the home on that night. Curious from

487
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: clips of David on Take Time. So what are the

488
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: other possibilities? Well, for one thing, the NAV system on

489
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: a Tesla, Scott for a NAV system on the Tesla

490
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: tells you so much.

491
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: For instance, what Scott iiker, Well.

492
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 10: A NAP system is very very accurate on the Tesla.

493
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 10: It's GPS right, and they actually have a cell phone

494
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 10: in the car also, so if you can get several

495
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 10: different things and all the telematics about the car itself,

496
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 10: how fast it was moving, when it was moved, who

497
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 10: was in the car based on the cameras we've seen

498
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 10: all that already you know provided or should have been

499
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 10: provided and put downloaded from the car. Now you asked

500
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 10: about how do we know who was in the house

501
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 10: back in historical time. That's getting tower dumps. That's getting

502
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 10: information from the phone company's historically of what phone or

503
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 10: devices were in a general area of that residence at

504
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 10: that time. Again, it's depended upon how how long the

505
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 10: phone company teaches that data, on how specific that data is,

506
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 10: and what did you tell data that they can a

507
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 10: tower dump, so.

508
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 2: You get that from the actual closest.

509
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 10: Cell tower, several towers.

510
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk, there was a key card found in a

511
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: sewer drain a drainage outlet near where the Teesla was parked.

512
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: Okay, this is from running back seven seven seven. It

513
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: was on Reddit. It says tesla.

514
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: So that's the key card we believe to D four

515
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: vd's Tesla.

516
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: Where was that found? Alexis Tereschuk in gout or near.

517
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 3: His Hollywood Hills home on the on the ground and

518
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: so interesting.

519
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: So it was closer to his home Alexis, Yes.

520
00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 3: His Hollywood Hills home.

521
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: Yes, not in Santa.

522
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: Barbara, and not at the impound place where the car

523
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: where her body was found in the car, but near

524
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 3: his home.

525
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: Interesting, scott Iker. That tells me a lot. It tells

526
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: me that the car was left and the key card

527
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: to the car was abandoned a distance away. Why, scott Iker,

528
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: what does the key card have to do with the tesla?

529
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: What does it do with a tesla? Why do you

530
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: need a key card?

531
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 10: Well, initially you need a key card to actually get

532
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 10: into the vehicle, and then set up the driver's phone

533
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 10: to be the actual key. So once you get the

534
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 10: key card, you get that from the dealer when you

535
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 10: buy the car. Then you set up the using the

536
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 10: key card to use the phone as the key for

537
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 10: the rest of the time you're using the tesla, and

538
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 10: you can set up several different individuals to use that tesla,

539
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 10: and then you can put that key card in a

540
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 10: safe place if you need to and just use the phone.

541
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 10: But every once in a while you'd have to bring

542
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 10: that key card out if you're going to add drivers

543
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 10: or some of that. Mm hmm.

544
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Philip D Bay joining US high profile defense attorney out

545
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: of this jurisdiction in LA.

546
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: I bet you is a.

547
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: Defense attorney just hate digital forensics because I bet you

548
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: money that this witness who's getting arrested because she refuses

549
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: to testify in front of the D four VD David

550
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Anthony Burke grand jury.

551
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: I bet they've got her every which way.

552
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: But upside down with digital forensics showing Philip what about it?

553
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it is just that it's a digital footprint.

554
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: It what's her there? Nobody goes anywhere without their phone.

555
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 4: It's like a woman's purse. You don't let it out

556
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 4: of your sight. So no grandeur or let alone a

557
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 4: childer is going to buy the fact that the phone

558
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 4: wasn't on her. And yeah, the girl must be terrible.

559
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 4: She's petrified for a couple of reasons. Number one, she

560
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: doesn't want to get arrested, she doesn't want to get implicated,

561
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 4: and she doesn't know immunity from apple butter. She doesn't

562
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 4: even know the right lingo to use.

563
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: She's got a lawyer, yes, she does well.

564
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 4: Okay, then hopefully that lawyer is in fact invoking her

565
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 4: rights so that nothing criminally happens. Now, the question I

566
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 4: think that the grand jury will have is whether or

567
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 4: not other people were involved in the crime.

568
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: David Anthony Burg is being investigated as a suspect.

569
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: In the death of teen girl Celeste.

570
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: He has not been cooperative throughout the investigation. To Alexis Tereshak,

571
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter, the Medical Examiner's Office is at

572
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: war with the LAPD. It's very rare that that happens.

573
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Usually they are in lockstep. What's happening. Why has LAPD

574
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: told the medical examiners to shut their pie hole?

575
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: They believe that they are releasing too much information and

576
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 3: that this is knowing to affect the case, affect the

577
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: specific details whether or not she was actually completely dismembered,

578
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 3: whether she was decapitated or not. They don't want any

579
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: of this information out there because this would be showing

580
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: the people that are involved what they have, and they

581
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: don't want the public knowing and getting involved in all

582
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: of this. But the Medical Examiner's Office has been talking,

583
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: so there are conflicting stories out there. Was she dismembered,

584
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: was she frozen? Was she decapitated? Each side is trying

585
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: to keep the wraps on this, but the LAPD is

586
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: very mad that these details are coming out.

587
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: Joining me, Doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner, Ran County.

588
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: That's fort Worth.

589
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of

590
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: Medicine at TCU and the star of a hit podcast,

591
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: Mayhem in the Morgue, Doctor Kindle Crowns, thank you for

592
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: being with us. There's a lot made of whether Celeste

593
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: Rivas was frozen. Okay, we know from just common sense.

594
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: Let's see the tesla belonging to David Anthony Burke D

595
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: FOURVD sitting in the mpound lot. It sat there for days,

596
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, from our forends at KTLA. Now, given

597
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: that amount of time plus the amount of time it

598
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: sat out on the sidewalk, it sat out on the

599
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: sidewalk on the street, and that ritzy neighborhood millionaire mansions

600
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: for days and days being shouldled from one spot.

601
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: To the next.

602
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: So doctor Kendall Crowns, by the time her body was

603
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: found in the car in the mpound lot, she had

604
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: been dead for days and days and days decomposing.

605
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: In a trunk.

606
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Given that fact scenario, which we know to be true,

607
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall, could you still tell whether she had ever

608
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: been frozen.

609
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,439
Speaker 2: I accept what the LAPD says.

610
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 1: She was not frozen or partially frozen at the time

611
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: she was found.

612
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: That photo was.

613
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: Showing you of the chazla with her body in it

614
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: there at the impounds from our friends at KTLA.

615
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 2: But could you, as a.

616
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 1: Medical examiner look at her body tissues under a microscope

617
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: and tell if she ever had been frozen.

618
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 11: So when bodies freeze, you can actually get formation of

619
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 11: ice crystals and the body becomes hard as a rock

620
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 11: because the majority of our tissues are made up of water.

621
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 11: So if you get below freezing, the body becomes an

622
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 11: ice cube. But once it thaws out, there's really no

623
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 11: changes that happen if the freezing occurred after death that

624
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 11: you can look at and go, this body was frozen,

625
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 11: unless there's still ice crystals in the heart or in

626
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 11: any other blood vascular areas. Other than that, there'd be

627
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 11: no way to tell if she was frozen and then

628
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 11: thought out and then you know, dumped. But if she

629
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 11: had been alive and frozen, there are changes there but

630
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 11: not after death.

631
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: Trying to digest what you just said. I believe you

632
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: said if she was totally thought out, which obviously she was,

633
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: there's no way to tell if she ever was frozen.

634
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 6: Correct.

635
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: Okay, you don't get freezer made, got it.

636
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: A lot has been made as to whether she was decapitated,

637
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: but doctor Kimball crowns, no one is opposing the fact

638
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: that she was dismembered. Typically, when I've had a case

639
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: where a body was dismembered, the hands and the head

640
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: are cut off to avoid identification. In this case, if

641
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: she was that decomposed, how would the identification have been made?

642
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 11: So if they dismembered her to try and get rid

643
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 11: of evidence of identification, like you said, of course the

644
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 11: hands with the fingerprints. The head is for facial identification,

645
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 11: but you can't get rid of the DNA. Even if

646
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 11: you drain the body completely of its blood, you can

647
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 11: still get blood smears from the spleen or the muscle

648
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 11: or things of that nature, and then you take that

649
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 11: DNA from those organs, and then you do a comparison

650
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 11: with the family, and you can still identify the person,

651
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 11: whether there's a head or hands or not. Even if

652
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 11: it was just a section of the leg, like they

653
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 11: only found a foot. You could still do a swab

654
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 11: of the tissues in that area, usually musculature, and get

655
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 11: a DNA sample to do a comparison with known family members.

656
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's. Isn't it true that even if a

657
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: body is dried.

658
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: Out, almost mummified, you could get DNA from bone marrow

659
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: or from the inside of a tooth, or you could

660
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: take a body part such as the liver, blend it,

661
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: liquefy it and get DNA from that.

662
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 11: Yes, that's correct. All those are scenarios in which an

663
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 11: individual has gotten to the point that they're mummified or

664
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 11: dried out, you can still get DNA from them. Bone

665
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 11: marrow is a great one because the femur or the

666
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 11: big bone in your thigh still has plenty of bone

667
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 11: marrow in the ribs as well. The teeth. What you're

668
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 11: talking about is the pulp of the teeth is still

669
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 11: very that it can be present for a long period

670
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 11: of time. It's a good source for DNA. And then

671
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 11: finally blending up the tissue. We usually use the spleen

672
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 11: because it's so vascular. You can get a lot of

673
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 11: blood from it, even in a mummified state, but you

674
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 11: can use the liver or other organs if they're more intact.

675
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: That photo we're showing you of the Chasla with her

676
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: body in it there at the impound, it's from our

677
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: president KTLA.

678
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace and doctor Kendall Crowns.

679
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: A law has been made that the LAPD and the

680
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office is at war.

681
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: The medical examiners.

682
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: All medical doctors like yourself do not take kindly to

683
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: the PD, telling them.

684
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: To shut the hay up.

685
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: But the truth is, doctor Kendall Crowns, we don't know

686
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: if these leaks have come from the Medical Examiner's office,

687
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: Isn't it true? Medical examiners in large much Politan areas

688
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: have a fleet of their own investigators.

689
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: Atlanta did. In fact, some of.

690
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: The best investigators I ever knew were from the Medical

691
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: Examiner's office. Elite could come from a medical examiner investigator,

692
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: It could come from somebody making copies of documents. It

693
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: could come from someone within the LAPD about the Medical

694
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 1: Examiner's reports. And therefore people think the leak is coming

695
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: from the Medical Exammer's office.

696
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 2: There's really no way to identify who's leaking.

697
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: But the medical Exammer's office is the one that's being spanked.

698
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 11: That's correct. I mean the medical exammer's offices usually have

699
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 11: their own set of death investigators so they can do

700
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 11: an unbiased death investigation and not rely on police information

701
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 11: to determine cause and manner of death. But usually big

702
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 11: offices have upwards of over one hundred people, and big

703
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 11: cases like this that information people can talk about it

704
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 11: the death investigators, the autopsy technicians, the doctors themselves, and

705
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 11: information can get out in the public. But you're correct,

706
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 11: the police also can be guilty of leaking this information

707
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 11: because they get the file as well, and they are

708
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 11: another large organization with multiple people, and people talk and

709
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 11: this information gets out there. That's the problem with high

710
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,760
Speaker 11: profile cases is they always create high profile problems because

711
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 11: so many people want to know the information and people

712
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 11: love to talk about, oh, guess what I saw at

713
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 11: work today. So you have to be very careful in

714
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 11: these situations about what you say to whom, and you

715
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 11: have to keep your mouth shut. And if the police

716
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 11: is telling the medical examiner's office to shut up, well

717
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 11: you got to do what you're told and You've got

718
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 11: to work as a team because they have to do

719
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 11: their investigation, and if we leak information, it can actually

720
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 11: color and bias the entire investigation and cause a lot

721
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 11: of problems.

722
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: Philip Dubay, high profile lawyer, loose lips sink ships. Just

723
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,439
Speaker 1: like that witness, the record exec goes out in the hall,

724
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: starts whining. Someone could have been having a beer, and

725
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,359
Speaker 1: somebody ever hears what they said talking about Hey, guess

726
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: what happened in the Medical Examiner's office today. Guess what

727
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: I read in this report that I copied. It could

728
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: be anybody that's blabbing. It doesn't have to be a

729
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: paid informant, it doesn't have to be official. Anyone could

730
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: be leaking this information, of.

731
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 4: Course, and that's usually how it happens. We see it

732
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: in the coroner's office. We've seen it in the DA's office,

733
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: and frankly, we've even seen it in the public Defender's

734
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 4: office over the years, where somebody sort of casually mentioned

735
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 4: something and before you know it, you know, it becomes,

736
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 4: you know, like this big, huge story and it takes

737
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 4: on a life of its own, and then before you

738
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 4: know it, it's it's taken.

739
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: Out Caber Philip Imbricaber.

740
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: Yes, somebody blabbed and suddenly it was a dateline special.

741
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 4: I know, and the court opened up a special investigation.

742
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 4: They were going to get to the bottom of it.

743
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 4: And I think the only reason why they let it

744
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 4: go is twofold Number one. He pled so the case

745
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 4: was over. But number two, I think under Idaho law,

746
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 4: even if you do get to the bottom of it,

747
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 4: it was only a misdemeanor to invest all this money

748
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 4: in a misdemeanor. It just wasn't costing.

749
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: Don't know why you keep saying that it's not.

750
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: You're in sitting in jail an arrest to go down

751
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: in the D four VD David Anthony Burke case, as

752
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: I like to call it, the Celestia Rev's case, a

753
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 1: witness refusing to testify.

754
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: Why what does she know? Rob Dick has a theory.

755
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 9: What I think it's not so much worried about going

756
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 9: to jail. I think it's worried about what she's seen

757
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 9: the same thing happening to her. I mean, it's a

758
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 9: possible fear in her own self. She could end up

759
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 9: like that, you know.

760
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall.

761
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: Let me follow up on one investigator private investigator Rob

762
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,240
Speaker 1: Dick said.

763
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 2: Afraid it's going to happen to her.

764
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, she wasn't afraid to go along

765
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: for the ride to for instance, Lin with the mansion,

766
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: be on the dole, eat out at fancy restaurants, go

767
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: to concerts.

768
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: Afraid of what you know.

769
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 7: Nancy, she's complicit in some way. When witnesses do not

770
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 7: want to come forward, it's usually because they have played

771
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 7: a role in the crime. Maybe it's just a silent witness, right,

772
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 7: Maybe it's just somebody watching Celeste being abused. But she

773
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 7: saw something, and you know, you know the term house

774
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 7: of horrors. We're talking about homicide here, we're talking about

775
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 7: a dismembered body in a front But what we're not

776
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 7: talking about is the house of horrors. What was going

777
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 7: on in that household up to this homicide and this dismemberment.

778
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 5: Were women being used as sex slaves? Were women being dominated?

779
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 5: Were some women dominating other women? Were people using drugs together,

780
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 5: We're people watching sadistic pornography together and then you know,

781
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 5: sadistically hurting each other. We don't know what was happening

782
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: in that house. And I think that's going to be

783
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 5: really important for us to uncover as this trial moves forward.

784
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: So, in other words, doctor Bethany, another person stands by

785
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: and watches what's happening to Celeste and does nothing. Let

786
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: me remind everybody, So Lest's just thirteen years old when

787
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: this whole thing cranked up with David Anthony Burke. She's dead, dismembered,

788
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: turning into nothing but go. And someone doesn't want to testify. Really,

789
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: someone that potentially stood by and.

790
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 2: Watch all this happen and did nothing. That person, Befany.

791
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, I'm a mandated reporter as a marriage, family,

792
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 7: and child counselor, and it's a psychoanalyst. If I see

793
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 7: something that's being done to a minor or to a child,

794
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 7: I have to report that, not I don't have to

795
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 7: investigate it. I just report this suspicion that something is happening.

796
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 7: We have all these people in that household seeing i'm

797
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 7: sure pretty terrible things going on, and not one person

798
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 7: is calling the police.

799
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 5: Not one person is called. No one person is talking

800
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 5: to Celeste.

801
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: What about her parents?

802
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 5: Did any of these witnesses call her parents?

803
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: No?

804
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: Everybody is just standing by silent.

805
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: You can run, but you can't hide. That female prosecutor

806
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 1: knows you. Your name, your DOB, your SSN, Social Security number,

807
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: your address, your mama's name, your brother's name, your boyfriend's name.

808
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 2: Your tag number. Go ahead, go in, go under oath

809
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: and tell the truth.

810
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: A little girl is dead and you're refusing to testify,

811
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: and you know another thing to D four D David

812
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: Anthony Burk's manager.

813
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: Shame on you.

814
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: You actually said out in the courthouse hall that you

815
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 1: didn't have any duty to call and report a dead

816
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: girl in a trunk. All you wanted to do was

817
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: continue with the tour. You know what, conscious pilot, just

818
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: washing your.

819
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: Hands and looking the other way. It ain't working this time.

820
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

821
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: brutal death of this little girl, ce Les Rivas, please

822
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 1: call LAPD two one three four eight six six eight

823
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: nine zero.

824
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: There will be justice in this case. Two one three

825
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 2: four eight six six' eight nine.

826
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: Zero you can either get involved be a part of the,

827
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: solution or you can stand back and do nothing and

828
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: be part of the. Problem tonight we remember An american,

829
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: Hero Officerjesus corona Of POLLIER, Pd, california just twenty nine

830
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: killed in the line of, duty leaving behind his wife

831
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: and a little. Girl An american, hero Officers

832
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: Nancy, grace running off brid